Question on PPL Hours crediting

[Preedy]

Afternoon All!

I'm new to this forum so would like to say a big hello and ask for your help.

I'm a PPL student, doing it as a hobby (no intention to change career or anything), I've been taking lessons at Rochester EGTO since about April and very much enjoying flying with Skytrek. I'm hoping the longer term to find a share a nice little plane and get some proper aviators so I fit in better at the airfield.

In 2001 (at the tender age of 17) I was lucky enough to get an RAF Flying Scholarship, which included 20 hours of training with Tayside Aviation, Dundee (civilian training school). These were probably two of the best two weeks I've ever had, lots of flying, boozing and enjoying the company of fellow students!) oh to be 17 again!

It has since taken me 15yrs or so to get in a position where flying is a realistic (just about affordable) hobby to take up.. having had five or six lessons this year it is all gradually coming back to me!

Anyway, I have my old log book from 2001 which is pretty basic (hours logged, aircraft, type, Dual / Solo etc) but all signed and stamped by Tayside.

I can see nothing in CAP804 / FCL210.A that suggests my old hours from 2001 can't be credited against the EASA PPL 45hr requirement. In 2001 I followed a JAR syllabus flying SEPs (C152, as now).

I did ping an email to the CAA licensing bods to confirm this and they've sent me back a form 'SRG2137' and suggested I'd need to apply for an 'exemption' and pay £53. Anyone got any idea what I'd be applying for an 'exemption' from? the form gives me no clues at all.

They also tell me there's an Information Notice to be released this week on the crediting of hours pre-2012. I'm no lawyer and I appreciate this is a legal minefield, but am I missing something obvious in the regs?

It wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd prefer to avoid the situation of applying for my license and then being told I'd need to complete another £3 - 4k worth of hours before I can fly off into the sunset with the mrs (...and then promptly return back within 30mins of civil twilight..) ..obviously this assumes I can do the whole thing on minimum-ish hours anyway, which is by no means a given.

I've asked the CAA chap to clarify, but wondered if anyone had any similar experience on this point?

Any help gratefully received.

Thanks!

Pat

[BillieBob]

Regulation 1178/2011, Article 9

1. In respect of issuing Part-FCL licences in accordance with Annex I, training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation in accordance with the Joint Aviation Authorities requirements and procedures, under the regulatory oversight of a Member State recommended for mutual recognition within the Joint Aviation Authorities’ system in relation to the relevant JAR, shall be given full credit provided that the training and testing were completed by 8 April 2016 at the latest.
Consequently, on the face of it, no training completed prior to 8 April 2012 can now be credited for the issue of an EU licence. However, the UK CAA is very good at finding ways around the regulations when it wants to so I should wait for the promised IN.

[Preedy]

Thanks for the quick reply BB. Appreciate it.

Having reread Article 9 I think I now see what is getting at.. if you started on a JAR course pre 2012 it all qualifies as long as the testing is completed pre 2016.

I guess its Article 9 that I would be asking for an exception from under art.14 (4) of Reg 216/2008.

Simple this innit..!

Worse case is I'll qualify with 65 or more logged hours and be a better pilot as a result..

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Worse case is I'll qualify with 65 or more logged hours ...
... as did many of us. Not very far from average, that :)

[MrAverage]

There's a form for that:


http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG2137enabled.pdf

[BEagle]

Thanks to AOPA discussing the problem directly with the right people at the CAA, the Authority has agreed to permit PPL flight training conducted before 2012 to be credited towards the Part-FCL PPL or LAPL. The regulatory method being that the student pilot must apply for a '14(4)' exemption before taking the Skill Test.

Currently, this exemption takes about 10 working days to process and is then valid for 2 months. So don't apply too early - and make sure that you've got the exemption in your sweaty paws before taking the Skill Test!

So we've probably saved several people several £K as a result?

[S-Works]

How does that apply to people who are converting from ICAO PPLs? Especially those with less than 100hrs?

[BEagle]

'That' only refers to ab initio flight training pre-Apr 2012.

As far as I'm aware, existing 3rd country conversion criteria for pilots who already hold pilot licences remain in place.

[S-Works]

Thanks. Still penalising licence holders on conversion then.

[memories of px]

wasnt there some thread somewhere on pprune, that the training hours would be valid for an NPPL, then convert that to a LAPL then do what is necessary to
convert to an EASA PPL.

[MrAverage]

..........see my reply to your post in the Instructor section..........

[Pilot DAR]

Worse case is I'll qualify with 65 or more logged hours and be a better pilot as a result..
That's the spirit! A PPL is a stepping stone along your progress to be a safe and skilled pilot, it is not the end point. Don't be in a rush for a piece of paper, be planned and methodical about gaining and maintaining the skills to be a safe pilot. Along the way of that process, someone will hand you a PPL. Even with that, the learning is still just beginning. Though my fixed wing flight test (1978) is a bit fuzzy in recollection now, my second PPL flight test (helicopter) is more fresh - I learned things that flight! It was just another lesson, with a fellow ticking boxes as I flew it. So don't fixate on the number of hours in your logbook and pieces of paper, but rather your growth in skill. Once you're a few years in, with a larger number of hours, 20 "old" hours won't seem that important for your log anyway, just enjoy the memories!

[BigEndBob]

Thanks to AOPA discussing the problem directly with the right people at the CAA, the Authority has agreed to permit PPL flight training conducted before 2012 to be credited towards the Part-FCL PPL or LAPL. The regulatory method being that the student pilot must apply for a '14(4)' exemption before taking the Skill Test.

Currently, this exemption takes about 10 working days to process and is then valid for 2 months. So don't apply too early - and make sure that you've got the exemption in your sweaty paws before taking the Skill Test!

So we've probably saved several people several £K as a result?
I have a student now who has done 11 odd hours on some sort of RAF scholarship from 5 years ago, would that count towards PPL?

[AreWeNearlyThere]

Is exemption form SRG2137 still valid and the agreement still in place?

I have 32 hours spanning the past 18 years but never got the chance to finish and complete a skills test, now, as life comes to a stable settle, I have just signed back up at my local FTO. We were having the discussion about my hours. Obviously, I have no vision of jumping back in and completing a skills test in 20 hours, but, if I made it to a point where the CFI was happy with my skills and was confident in me, some of those hours may be useful. I am going to take the form in with me and see if they have encountered it, but if anyone has further info to help me (Parts, annexes and articles that require exemption from, etc), all info would be appreciated.

Regards all out there!

[rudestuff]

Obviously, I have no vision of jumping back in and completing a skills test in 20 hours

Why on earth not? 20 hours should be plenty, unless you have major confidence issues. It's all buried in there - I took my PPL test after a gap of 12 years and it took me 3.9 hours

[CameronGow]

Was it at Dundee? If so send me a PM

Hi - I'm in the same boat as the OP. I did my Flying Schol in 2002, did a few hours on a UAS 2003-2004, then a long gap and now looking to do my PPL. Just trying to figure out exactly needs doing in order to get these hours to count? The flying school I went to the other day was adamant that if it was pre-2012 then it would not count... but this thread seems to suggest otherwise?

Any help most gratefully received, cheers in advance.

Cam

[fbaj]

Hello everyone this is my first time posting here..
I am in a similar position as the OP, I have around 40 hours from 2001-2004. I have now started flight training again and it looks like I need 15-20 hours including solo, judging how the first 5 have gone with my instructor.

We can't quite get a confirmed answer of whether my previous experience counts though.

The offending paragraph (below) has been removed by the CAA as of the 31st of Dec 2019 when we left the EU:

Article 9 Credit for training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation 1. In respect of issuing Part-FCL licences in accordance with Annex I, training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation in accordance with the Joint Aviation Authorities requirements and procedures, under the regulatory oversight of a Member State recommended for mutual recognition within the Joint Aviation Authorities’ system in relation to the relevant JAR, shall be given full credit provided that the training and testing were completed by 8 April 2016 at the latest.

Amendment of Article 9 of Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/2011298.—(1) Article 9 (credit for training commenced prior to the application of this Regulation) is amended as follows.

(2) Omit paragraph 1.

Repealed by Aviation Safety (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019/645 Pt 4(4) reg.298(2) (December 31,


From our point of view this seems to be good news and any hours regardless of date, should count towards a CAA PPL. Therefore no exemption is needed.

Does anyone here have any recent experience with this?

Many Thanks

[Pilot DAR]

Welcome fbaj,

To be honest, flying experience achieved before 2004 (with presumably a long gap of not flying until very recently?) won't mean much for your skills. If it were credited toward your training, I expect that flying up to the skill level, rather than the hour minimums would be a good plan.