EASA License flying N Reg

[Danny boy]

Hi All,
Can a pilot holding a EASA licence fly an N reg aeroplane within UK and European airspace?

[dont overfil]

If you have a UK issued EASA licence you can fly N reg in UK airspace only.
It may change one day.:rolleyes:
Easiest way around the problem is to get an FAA 61.75 certificate (piggyback) or full FAA certificate.

[ifitaintboeing]

What D.O. has stated above is correct. The legal interpretations from the FAA Office of the Chief Counsel are here:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2014/graziano%20-%20%282014%29%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

and

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2009/condell%20-%20%282009%29%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

ifitaint...

[Fly4Business]

As there is no "EASA license", but only country licenses according to the same EASA scheme, you can fly N-reg aircraft with the respective license only in the country the license was issued. There ain't no EASA country ...

[Airgus]

Talking about this, can someone guide me or recommend me any place in UK or EU to get an FAA 61.75 certificate (piggyback) or full FAA certificate.

Thanks
(you can PM in order not to divert the topic)

[Fly4Business]

Talking about this, can someone guide me or recommend me any place in UK or EU to get an FAA 61.75 certificate (piggyback) or full FAA certificate.

Thanks
(you can PM in order not to divert the topic)
Call Adam House in Derbyshire: FAA recognizes Adam House (http://aviation-business-gazette.com/A25/B3/Pilot-Adam-House-Derbyshire-.html)

[island_nomad]

Hi all,
I have a similar query-
Can i fly a G reg aircraft with a South African Atpl, outside UK or South Africa, in an ICAO member state for part 121 ops?
Your input will be much appreciated,
Thanks.

[Whopity]

The ability to fly another country's aircraft with an ICAO licence issued by another State is only recommended by ICAO for non-commercial operations.

You can fly a Annex II (non EASA) G Reg in accordance with Article 62 of the UK ANO, and an EASA G-Reg in accordance with ORS4 No1163 (http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/1163..pdf) for non commercial (private) flights.

[BigEndBob]

Can a NPPL fly a N reg aircraft he owns?
Can someone be taught NPPL on N reg using a EASA UK Instructor?

[custardpsc]

airgus - the place to look is .... pprune. But use the search function. The 61.75 has been done to death on here. As has the route to getting a full FAA certificate, which, in short requires you to meet all the part 61 requirements for initial issue of a certificate.

And to answer the original post - day vfr only

[ifitaintboeing]

Can a NPPL fly a N reg aircraft he owns?

The answer is: yes. This question was asked of the FAA by the UK CAA, along with enquiring about all other sub-ICAO licences and ratings including the LAPL and IMC/IR(R). The FAA response from the Office of the Chief Counsel is here:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2015/Whittaker-Civil%20Aviation%20Authority%20-%20(2015)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf

which led to the answer in the NPPL FAQ here (http://www.nationalprivatepilotslicence.co.uk/faq.php).

Can someone be taught NPPL on N reg using a EASA UK Instructor?

Dual training may be carried out since the UK instructor may exercise their privileges in accordance with 14 CFR 61.3, but the student would not be able to complete the solo flying on a N-reg since they are not a licence holder at that point nor do they hold the required FAA license or student pilot certificate.

ifitaint...

[BEagle]

ifitaint, if the instructor was to be remunerated for flight instruction given to an aircraft owner on an N-reg aircraft in the UK, presumably there's still a requirement for the aircraft owner to have obtained the necessary permit for the aircraft from the CAA?

[Whopity]

Aircraft not registered in the EEA may only to be used for aerial work such as parachute dropping, crop spraying, banner towing, aerial display or flight training[1] in the UK where the operator (or flying instructor) does not receive valuable consideration for his services or holds a permit under Article 225 of the Air Navigation Order 2009. Details here (http://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-Industry/Airlines/Licensing/Foreign-carrier-permits/Foreign-carriers-permit---aerial-work/)

[ifitaintboeing]

That's correct, although Article 225 was included in the recent ANO Review for amendment. In my experience, the CAA have already started to apply this new policy by stating that an individual Article 225 exemption is not now required to be issued for flight training and testing.

ifitaint...

[ifitaintboeing]

ANO Review CRD now published.

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP%201414%20-%20ANO%20review%20CRD.pdf

Page 12 for detail on future ANO Article 225 permissions.

ifitaint...

[tipech]

From the discussion above, I was not able to understand if flying an N-reg aircraft in one own country (France for example) was only permitted in VFR or if Night VFR or IFR was also possible, assuming one is EASA (French DGAC) IR rated.

Anyone to shed some light on this ?

[Whopity]

FAA rules permit you to operate an N Reg in any State using a Licence issued by that State. It places no limitations other than those included on the licence being used. So if you can fly IFR in France that is good in an N Reg.

[selfin]

... no limitations other than those included on the licence being used.

This requirement mentioned by Whopity is prescribed in 14 CFR 61.75(e)(3) (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/56d0240ec0fe7fa58625768f005c1c7d!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=2) which states that the certificate holder (bold added):

14 CFR 61.75(e)(3) Is subject to the limitations and restrictions on the person's U.S. certificate and foreign pilot license when exercising the privileges of that U.S. pilot certificate in an aircraft of U.S. registry operating within or outside the United States[.]

It's worth mentioning that this regulation is commonly believed to mean that a US airman certificate issued under 61.75 is subject to the flight crew licensing rules governing the non-US licence, e.g. Part-FCL. The August 2008 AAIB Bulletin (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/384864/Bull_8-2008.pdf) at p 80, reporting on a nosewheel collapse on a Nomad whose captain held a US airman certificate issued under 61.75, cites the above FAR in support of this misconception. The FAA Office of the Chief Counsel provided a legal interpretation on the point in March 2012 to Andrew Krausz at Clyde & Co. Addressing the bulletin FAA states:

The AAIB draws the conclusion from this provision that any and all limitations and and restrictions that a pilot would be subject to under his foreign pilot certificate are incorporated in his US certificate, and apply equally under his US certificate. This conclusion is mistaken.

The interpretation goes on to state:

... the pilot is subject to the restrictions and limitations that appear on the face of the US certificate or foreign pilot license. This language does not include the entirety of regulatory requirements of the foreign State since the holder of the §61.75 certificate is bound by the US regulatory requirements to exercise the privileges of the US certificate. The FAA views that language as addressing the limitations of the sort FAA uses, e.g., "not valid for night operation," where the individual has not completed the night training requirements.

The 2012 interpretation to Krausz is at https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2012/krausz-beaumont&son%20-%20(2012)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf

[Whopity]

As I understand it tipech is referring to the holder of a National Licence operating under CFR61.3 without being the holder of a CFR61.75 Certificate.

[tipech]

Indeed, I did not have the CFR reference to quote. So even without a piggy-back licence (CFR61.75), my french licence allows me to fly above France on a N-Reg aircraft in IFR, and even being paid as I own a french CPL : just great..

Thanks for your explanations.

[Whopity]

and even being paid as I own a french CPL : just great..Not so sure about the being paid, The DGAC might have something to say about remunerated operation in a foreighn registered aircraft!

[Aucky]

Hi All,

Just a quick sanity check - in case anything has changed in the last few years. I (as a UK issued EASA TRI/TRE) need to perform refresher training & a proficiency check on another UK/EASA licence holder, in an N-REG helicopter in the UK.

I believe the FAA FAR regulation allows me to fly an N-REG within the UK, within the privileges of my licence with no additional 'piggyback' permits required.

I believe I can perform the flight instruction for remuneration on the N-REG aircraft so long as the foreign aerial work permit (iaw ANO 252) is issued and ARC/Radio/Insurance requirements etc are all met.

Am I missing anything else obvious? I believe this satisfies the requirements of the Flight Examiners Handbook Section 2.14.

Any input much appreciated.

[selfin]

Aucky, addressed here https://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners/605047-can-one-learn-n-reg-easaland.html#post10043220

[Aucky]

Aucky, addressed here https://www.pprune.org/flying-instructors-examiners/605047-can-one-learn-n-reg-easaland.html#post10043220

Excellent. Thanks

[snake wow wow]

I fly a N-registered T6 and have a valid EASA SEP(land) so no problem to fly over national airspace.
T6 is considered by the FAA as a single engine land however BCAA considers it as an Annex II airplane, so should it be on my national license?

[Whopity]

BCAA considers it as an Annex II airplane, so should it be on my national license? That depends upon the National legislation of the State of registration. In the UK all EASA licences are valid on G Reg Annex I aircraft (Annex II ceased to exist last year when the basic regulation changed them to Annex I) In the case of N reg you are covered by FAR-AIM.

[snake wow wow]

Thanks, Annex II became Annex I correct, I will contact BCAA just to make sure.

[timprice]

Sorry to put spanner in the works I understand annex 2 became annex 1, but annex 1 aircraft if on permit can only be flown on national licence if not an approved EASA aircraft.
As for training on N reg licence the issue is solo flight I think you need a foreign aerial work permit to cover your backside(in uk), plus permission from TSA to start training and the student will
have to go to USA to complete knowledge test or tests depending on what he/she is doing, plus the instructor should be dual rated EASA & FAA.
I think that should cover it.:ok:

[Artus KG]

As there is no "EASA license", but only country licenses according to the same EASA scheme, you can fly N-reg aircraft with the respective license only in the country the license was issued. There ain't no EASA country ...
Yeah, this is what only became clear to me now with my first renewal... Those half-baked solutions... Better than nothing but I expected a deeper integration.

[Kemble Pitts]

Annex I aircraft can be flown on an EASA licence if your NAA allows it. UK CAA does allow it.

[Whopity]

but annex 1 aircraft if on permit can only be flown on national licence if not an approved EASA aircraft.
Not according to the UK ANO Art 150

[timprice]

Whopity is right as I said you need a national licence, I know I had to get one.:ok:

[BillieBob]

There's a bit of confusion here. Just to clarify, any aircraft for which an appropriate class or type rating is included in an EASA licence may be flown irrespective of whether it is an EASA or an Annex I aircraft. There is a problem with helicopters, however, for which there are no class ratings, because a type rating for an Annex I helicopter cannot be included in an EASA licence. Hence a Bulldog or a Piston Provost, for example, being SEP aeroplanes, may be flown on an EASA licence but a Scout or Rotorway helicopter may not. Generally speaking, flying an Annex I aeroplane probably will not require a national licence to be held but flying an Annex I helicopter invariably will.

[timprice]

Ok BillieBob, don't know much about fixed wing, but stand corrected? Helicopters I know, a bit!!!

[Sloppy Link]

There's a bit of confusion here. Just to clarify, any aircraft for which an appropriate class or type rating is included in an EASA licence may be flown irrespective of whether it is an EASA or an Annex I aircraft. There is a problem with helicopters, however, for which there are no class ratings, because a type rating for an Annex I helicopter cannot be included in an EASA licence. Hence a Bulldog or a Piston Provost, for example, being SEP aeroplanes, may be flown on an EASA licence but a Scout or Rotorway helicopter may not. Generally speaking, flying an Annex I aeroplane probably will not require a national licence to be held but flying an Annex I helicopter invariably will.

OK, so I think I have this.....
Scout helicopter Annex II is on the N-Reg. I hold EASA CPL(H) (irrelevant for the remainder of this question) and a National ATPL(H) rated and current Scout/Wasp. I can fly the Scout in UK but there are some detail questions; Do I need some sort of paperwork from the FAA or do I simply crack on using the CAA licence, rating and medical? If I want to fly in Ireland, do I need a full FAA licence or a piggy back licence and if I do, how do I get one?

Fanks

SL

[Kemble Pitts]

Sloppy Link

If you bother to read the trail above you'll find all of the answers you need.

[BillieBob]

An N-reg aircraft may be flown on a foreign (i.e. non-FAA) licence only in the airspace of the state that issued the licence. Therefore, your UK ATPL(H) is valid only within the UK and you would need either an FAA licence or an IAA issued licence to operate an N-reg aircraft in Ireland.

[Citationcj2]

An N-reg aircraft may be flown on a foreign (i.e. non-FAA) licence only in the airspace of the state that issued the licence. Therefore, your UK ATPL(H) is valid only within the UK and you would need either an FAA licence or an IAA issued licence to operate an N-reg aircraft in Ireland.

Sorry to revive an old thread but can you back up your statement with an official document/evidence?

This commonly confused subject seem to applicable only for commercial operations where you’d need an FAA license to fly N-reg aircraft cross country, at least to what I can officially find online in EASA/FAA regs. In EASA territory theres no Dutch, Irish, French licence, they are all all EASA.

[selfin]

14 CFR 61.3 (Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations)

(a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the
United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight
crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that
person:

...

(vii) When operating an aircraft within a foreign country, a pilot
license issued by that country may be used.

―

The FAA Assistant Chief Counsel for Regulations, Mark W Bury, provided an interpretation of the term "foreign country" on 9 Feb 2015 to Luc Audoore, CAE Aviation:

You have asked whether “within a foreign country” refers to the legal borders of a country
(i.e. landmass and territorial waters) or the Flight Information Region that would include the
sea outside the territorial waters.

The FAA is required to act consistently with U.S. obligations under international
agreements. 49 U.S.C. § 40105 (b). The Chicago Convention uses the term “State” rather
than “country” when addressing a contracting State’s responsibilities. Under Article 2 of the
Chicago Convention, a State’s territory is "deemed to be the land areas and territorial waters
adjacent thereto under the sovereignty, suzerainty, protection, or mandate of such State." As
such, the FAA considers operation “within a foreign country” to be operation within the
territory of a State. Although a country may be responsible for providing navigation services
outside its territory, the FAA would not consider operations of a U.S-registered airplane in
those areas to be an operation “within that country” for the purpose of § 61.3. Thus, the
operation described in your request would require the pilot to hold a pilot certificate issued
by the FAA.

[Citationcj2]

Amazing, thank you so much!!