Jetstar Aus/NZ Positions

[logansi]

At the end of the day we should all encourage guys to do what we want them to do, i'd much rather share a cockpit with someone who wants to be there. + if thats heading overseas then great because it opens up another opportunity for someone else who wants to stay around or someone who hasn't got into the airlines yet.

[Superawsome]

What are u guys arguing about lol. Recruitment is dead. Jetstar is just interviewing to grow thier pool. No one actually getting a call to start. I know many people in the hold file that have been waiting for several months and still heard nothing.

[Superawsome]

Just because you haven't been called to start doesn't mean others haven't.


I know 7 people that interview in Jan. I am assuming u got called?? If so please tell we need all the hope we can get.

[notthisguy1]

I do know people who have interviewed after Jan and are now back from their type rating and through their induction.

How does their induction process work? who knows.

[GA Driver]

The order that you interview isnt necessarily the order you’ll get called, Jq have been like this from the beginning. If you work out their system, please tell us so that way we all know....
If you got a letter saying you’re unsuccessful then you’re unsuccessful. If you haven’t got that letter, just sit tight. I know it’s frustrating, but refer unsuccessful letter above, that’s far more frustrating.

They want a heap of people this year and the bottleneck is the sims which was pointed out a few posts above. They are even looking at doing cyclics overseas.

[wheels_down]

Are they using the same sims as Tiger?

[morno]

I think there’s a total of 3 sims in all of Australia and they’re in the same place. So I dare say so.

[GA Driver]

Are they using the same sims as Tiger?
Yes they are. How Ansett got that sim got certified is beyond me. It’s not even remotely close to the aircraft in about a bazillion different ways. It makes the other 2 sims look like gold.

[Boomerang]

As many have suggested, if you have the option, take the first base offered as direct entry to other than MEL/SYD are rare. From the last list (May), time (mths) to basing (most junior positions)
MEL/SYD- direct entry.
NTL - 4
ADL - 7
CNS - 9
AVV - 10
OOL - 13
BNE - 15
PER - 24
Command - 7y8m
of course these can vary greatly as fleets and demand changes.

[notthisguy1]

I haven't interviewed with them so I'd be pretty lucky to get a call! I know the frustration of being on a hold file with not a lot of communication. The good thing for you is you haven't been told no. Sounds like you are holding for Jetstar and Virgin so your odds of getting a start are pretty good IMHO.As others have said hang in there and your time will come.

And who of those people who have interviewed in January have been given a call as yet?

[kaz890]

I interviewed 2 months ago and still awaiting a reply. Is anyone else in the same boat?

[Willie Nelson]

When I started back in 2007 I had waited for four months between the final interview and any further correspondence at all, it became clear after some time that in fact no news is sometimes good news. Eventually they did call with the good news.

Tough wait but hang in there, the wheels of Jetstar recruitment move slowly.

[IGBK]

I know what people say about hanging in there, but I have been on the hold file since Feb with no word. I heard at the interview they were looking at starting 12-20 a month. Does anyone have an idea of the actual numbers of new starts in the last 6 months?

[empacher48]

I know what people say about hanging in there, but I have been on the hold file since Feb with no word. I heard at the interview they were looking at starting 12-20 a month. Does anyone have an idea of the actual numbers of new starts in the last 6 months?

There are a few things happening which may be slowing things down through no fault of Jetstar. There is a massive shortage of slots for A320 type ratings worldwide, so Jetstar will be taking whatever slots they can get, which may not be enough.

There is a sim down at Ansett and will be down a sim for longer than what was first thought, which means the in house training is struggling to be done - this takes priority over induction training.

February isn't all that long to wait, the guys I started with had all been in the hold file for over 12 months. They will call when they call, in the meantime don't put your life or career on hold waiting for the call. There are plenty of options out there and if you get snapped up into something else before you get the call, then you would be stupid not to take it.

[GA Driver]

Does anyone have an idea of the actual numbers of new starts in the last 6 months?
PLENTY! Anywhere from 8-20 per month, depends on the month.

[pilotchute]

Any reason the Jetstar website has no pilot jobs advertised at the moment?

[IGBK]

PLENTY! Anywhere from 8-20 per month, depends on the month.

Thanks for that, at least it gives me some idea of where I stand, that is at the bottom of the hold file.

[Lookleft]

Jetstar is having difficulties with training logistics so don't assume that you have been passed over for selection.

[WannaBeBiggles]

Jetstar is having difficulties with training logistics so don't assume that you have been passed over for selection.

From what I've heard the courses for this year are completely full. This is secondhand info, but I'm sure someone with inside knowledge can confirm this, or correct me.

[GA Driver]

Courses being full who knows? It does change a bit. The sim however has an ongoing problem with slots and that’s for existing employees!

[ZKnintendojet]

Are the brakes still on recruitment with the current trouble finding training slots even across the pond at J* NZ? Will the website be taking applications again this year?

[notthisguy1]

I was called by the Qantas group in regards to interest in other parts of the company, after the recruiter asked if i was interested she made mention that there will be no more sims booked this year for Jetstar past the august course (which has been filled), at this stage.

[mattyj]

I went through psychometric numerical etc and phone interview..got told that was successful and to expect a call for a full interview..that was a month ago..no further correspondence

[wheels_down]

Would be helpful if Tiger could hurry up with its A320 disposal program so the sims can open up.

Worlds slowest fleet conversion.

[pilotchute]

Tigers A320's aren't going anywhere soon.

[Lookleft]

What I don't understand is why all this recruiting is occurring? I know Jetstar has been losing pilots to QF but I would not have thought that those numbers are large enough to warrant two years and counting of massive recruitment. Normally expansion of the airline generates that level of recruitment and that is not taking place either. Anyway good for the pilots getting selected.

[davidclarke]

Tigers A320's aren't going anywhere soon.

Another 3 years at least apparently......

[Aviatrix91]

What I don't understand is why all this recruiting is occurring? I know Jetstar has been losing pilots to QF but I would not have thought that those numbers are large enough to warrant two years and counting of massive recruitment. Normally expansion of the airline generates that level of recruitment and that is not taking place either. Anyway good for the pilots getting selected.

its because they were very short of people to begin with plus as mentioned they have lost a few, not just to QF but to the other subsidiarys in Vietnam and Japan. I forget the exact number that was quoted to me but from the 100+ that was recruited last year they only saw a rise in FO numbers by 40. Recruitment has slowed because as has been said on here many times that sim slots are very limited (globally) not just in Australia, and FO numbers have come up. It will of course change again in the not too distant future as we are short of captains and once the shuffle is made through the fleets to fix that current issue, we will be short again of FOs. Also with the new aircraft coming in 2020 will see an expansion and route shuffle

[Lookleft]

Aren't the new aircraft replacing existing aircraft?

[Aviatrix91]

Aren't the new aircraft replacing existing aircraft?
not entirely because we are getting 321LRs which will shake up the route structure.

[GA Driver]

As mentioned above, one rank has always been short, it just flips back and forth as to which one. That’s before JQNZ comes into play. They’ve lost a stack of people to AIR NZ. The 320 BOC’s have been given a shake up as well, most bases overnight now which means more crew. Theres also more SO’s inbound via the cadet ship, no one seems to know why they need more so’s (only HNL at the moment I think) so there must be something coming or heaven for it they might turn some of the SE ASIA flights into 3 crew....

[GA Driver]

Aren't the new aircraft replacing existing aircraft?
They have absolutely no need for those aircraft on the CURRENT network. It won’t do squat for the current runs the 321 does already, so something is changing route structure wise. No doubt we’ll find out from the pax leftover SMH or herald sun!

[Lookleft]

Theres also more SO’s inbound via the cadet ship, no one seems to know why they need more so’s (only HNL at the moment I think) so there must be something coming

Does that have anything to do with the ditching of JANZ and turning its CEO into a COO?

[Superawsome]

has anyone heard anything from hold file recently?

[Tlo]

Hi guys,

I interviewed in Feb, and have now been on the hold file for what seems like eternity.

Has anyone heard anything from the hold file. Does anyone know what the estimated wait times are? I have also read somewhere that Jetstar keeps you on the hold file for 12 months, after which your application expires. Is this true?
Sorry for asking so many questions

Thanks in advance

[SHVC]

Or, could it just mean that current SOs are able to transfer to the 320 fleet so they need to enable that? realistically how many would JQ allow to transfer to QF? I have a few mates on the 400 they have been held for 12 months now waiting for their turn.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

That’s correct, the first batch of SOs will have completed their 3 years of service as SOs by the end of the year and will be able to bid to A320 FO. We seem to be quite fat on NB FOs at the moment so quite a few could be released to QF. I would imagine though that they’re fattening up the FO stocks to allow them to do more command upgrades soon. FOs doing 60-70 hours and Captains still doing 90-100 hrs in most bases.

[das Uber Soldat]

That’s correct, the first batch of SOs will have completed their 3 years of service as SOs by the end of the year and will be able to bid to A320 FO. We seem to be quite fat on NB FOs at the moment so quite a few could be released to QF. I would imagine though that they’re fattening up the FO stocks to allow them to do more command upgrades soon. FOs doing 60-70 hours and Captains still doing 90-100 hrs in most bases.
59.8 baby. Its awesome.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

59.8 baby. Its awesome.

Hahaha, I though you were quoting a part of the EBA. I read

“59.8 Scheduled travel time between the airport and the Company provided accommodation at a layover port shall not normally exceed thirty (30) minutes each way unless agreed to in writing between the Company and the JPC. Such agreement shall be hotel specific.”

Your hours for the month is what I finally realised you were talking about! Yes, I agree, and regularly getting 4-5 days off in a row is beautiful. My 9-5 mates think I work less than a dole bludger.

[Lookleft]

hito, don't worry about degrees and masters until you are already in the company, concentrate on your flying first. If you do the masters after you have become an F/O it then becomes a tax deduction rather than a HECS debt. The earlier you are on the seniority list is more help to your career than a university qualification.

[beaver_boy]

Has anyone heard of any movement from the Hold File?. As was stated earlier, it seems like an eternity since being placed there

[kjvmw]

Hi,

Do NZ based pilots receive the same benefits as per the 2015 EBA? Or is it similar to the whole Qantas/Jetconnect situation?

Thanks

[Aviatrix91]

Hi,

Do NZ based pilots receive the same benefits as per the 2015 EBA? Or is it similar to the whole Qantas/Jetconnect situation?

Thanks

NZ base is a completely separate contract and seniority list. As a result the pay and benefits are a little bit different. If you are wanting to live in OZ at any point do not take a NZ base

[mattyj]

It rains sometimes in NZ though..that’s worth something

[Sparrows.]

NZ base is a completely separate contract and seniority list.


Last I heard, no official seniority list in NZ. Commands and bases are typically awarded on length of service like a seniority list.

[Tlo]

Hi guys,

I have been following this thread for sometime now. Has anyone heard from the hold file at all? If yes, what was the wait time?.
Are there any more courses to be drafted for this year or have they been fully exhausted?

Any constructive input will be great guys. Thanks so much in advance

[Ollie Onion]

^^^ Thats correct, there is no seniority list in the NZ operation. However when it comes to Commands, Bases etc 'Where two or more pilots meet the requirements for promotion the pilot with the longest Tenure will be awarded the position'.

[Daylight Robbery]

The basic package in NZ is around 30 % less than the Australian EBA when highline, superannuation and exchange rate are taken into account.
Cost of living Auckland very high, Christchurch more affordable due to less traffic, cheaper fuel and housing

[Continue Ecam]

Last batch of new crew were inducted and through ground school last month. Soon into line training if not already. Therefore no further recruitment this year. Not want the hold file guys want to hear, but its reality.

As previously stated FO numbers are high ATM. Priority now for upgrades to balance out CP numbers as they are still maxed out on hours.

LWOP to Japan etc a good option if you happy for the experience. Retain seniority number on AUS list and when you have completed the 2-3yr commitment can come back and slot in to your number.

[Konyagi]

Can you get a commuting option on LWOP in Japan or Vietnam? I see the contract agencies offer 10 consecutive days off at Jetstar Japan.

[GA Driver]

Without seeing exactly what you are referring to (LinkedIn??) if there’s some sort of commuting contract it won’t be LWOP from Aus. Historically HR will eventually let you go on LWOP from Aus but they aren’t much help other than approving or denying your request so I seriously doubt they’d be offering commuting. (That’s not to imply it doesn’t exist through a contract agency)

It’s been discussed on here before, but if you want an aus position or want to come back to aus DONT go via those regeims as you will be employed direct to that entity and there WILL NOT be an option back to aus. You would need to resign and reapply.

That said, if you are simply looking for 320 time and don’t give a hoot where you live then from all reports they are great fun, just don’t expect to slot back to aus.

[Konyagi]

A quick google shows 5 agencies recruiting for Jetstar Japan. Looking at Parc, they offer either a permanent contract, or commuting 20 on, 10 off. I’m just curious if those from Jetstar Australia on LWOP, have this option of 20/10, or is it only available to contract crew?? Or in other words, is anyone on LWOP from Australia, on a commuting roster out of Vietnam or Japan?

[morno]

All expats at Jetstar Pacific (JQ LWOP or not), have the same contracts, so they do 3/1, 6/2, or 9/3

[chickoroll]

Last batch of new crew were inducted and through ground school last month. Soon into line training if not already. Therefore no further recruitment this year. Not want the hold file guys want to hear, but its reality.

As previously stated FO numbers are high ATM. Priority now for upgrades to balance out CP numbers as they are still maxed out on hours.

LWOP to Japan etc a good option if you happy for the experience. Retain seniority number on AUS list and when you have completed the 2-3yr commitment can come back and slot in to your number.

Well as per recent comms from AFAP there maybe no upgrades for a while. Thank QF management and AIPA for that as they are being pr$&ks about the MOU and not advertising the positions to QF pilots.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Well as per recent comms from AFAP there maybe no upgrades for a while. Thank QF management and AIPA for that as they are being pr$&ks about the MOU and not advertising the positions to QF pilots.


I don’t think that was what the AFAP email meant. JQ can still upgrade its own FO’s, but if the slots aren’t advertised to QF pilots then the Q numbers on the list aren’t deleted. Anyone who joined qantas prior to 2004 (eligibility to use the MOU) would be senior enough for wide body FO slots over there and I dare say would be getting close to a 737 command. In addition to now having to do 6 months as an FO here, I don’t think we’ll see too many coming across with things looking so rosy at the mother ship!

[wheels_down]

A quick google shows 5 agencies recruiting for Jetstar Japan. Looking at Parc, they offer either a permanent contract, or commuting 20 on, 10 off. I’m just curious if those from Jetstar Australia on LWOP, have this option of 20/10, or is it only available to contract crew?? Or in other words, is anyone on LWOP from Australia, on a commuting roster out of Vietnam or Japan?
I am aware of Kiwi FOs getting commands into Vietnam currently not sure if this is also to Oz crew?

There is most certainly an opportunity to nab a lot of Tiger Airbus Pilots, large disengaged culture within the VA group currently, and those who not wish to move over to 20 year old Boeing’s.

[Gear in transit]

is there a current FO shortage on 320?

In Aus? Absolutely NOT.

Most F/O's struggling to do 65 hours :ok:
Half their luck.... it won't stay that way forever.

[chickoroll]

I’m only averaging 68 a month. And I think it will stay this way for a long time.

[The Green Goblin]

It won’t stay that way for long at all.

The average block hours for FOs (except MEL/SYD) is close to 75 hours. Skippers are all pretty close to to 80 in every base with many after a couple of standby call outs pushing 90. With roster balancing everyone needs to be within 6 hours of the average for the their base.

The reason for lower hours in SYD/MEL is most of the new hires are going there before bidding out around the network. So you could say they are slightly overstocked with FOs there.

It is also where a lot a lot of training happens.

What I can see from the numbers though is there will be a large amount of command upgrades very soon.

It’ll be back to 80+ in the coming busy period. So enjoy it while you can.

[Trigger Happy]

Anyone got any good info on the selection process (Jstar Oz) post the phone interview? Or at least suggest a good place to start? PM if preferred. Many thanks.

[kaz890]

Anyone heard from the hold file yet?

[davidclarke]

Anyone heard from the hold file yet?

I’ve been on hold since June 2017. Never got a call while may who went on hold after me were offered positions. I never did chase it up however. My advice start following it up with HR. Can’t hurt.

[kaz890]

Oh wow! I didn't expect it to be that long. I interviewed back in May this year and only entered the hold file a few months back. I'm guessing you got the call already?

[Notthisguy]

Hearing a few things on the grape vine about recruitment, as always take this with a grain of salt.

Looks like Jetstar won't be offering training courses till the 2nd half of 2019.

If this is correct, I feel for the guys who are on the hold file, probably best start looking at other options.

[chickoroll]

Not sure where you get your info, actually the opposite. Recruitment will be ranked up again next year as they need to fill more left seats and with the 321NeO they will need the extra crew.

[Notthisguy]

And I hope you're right mate, for everyone on the hold file's sake.

​​​

[Sparrows.]

Not sure where you get your info, actually the opposite. Recruitment will be ranked up again next year as they need to fill more left seats and with the 321NeO they will need the extra crew.

Also with the amount of boys and girls on the qantas hold file, they need to be replaced. Rumor mill says 80 pilots leaving the company next year.

[morno]

Not sure where you get your info, actually the opposite. Recruitment will be ranked up again next year as they need to fill more left seats and with the 321NeO they will need the extra crew.

I thought the NEO’s were just replacement aircraft for older aircraft in the fleet?

[Sceva]

Horses mouth; second half 2019...!

Hope it’s sooner

[Notthisguy]

With 53 flights cancelled the other day, with 10 already in Melbourne this morning due to crew, I can't imagine a company will allow that to continue.

There is no way a freeze on New pilots will work out for the company.

[Notthisguy]

Just a bit of an update guys.

No a320 intakes are planned for this year - it's horrible news for the guys on hold.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

I’m told the next 12-18 months training will be focused on command upgrades with some new A320 F/Os coming from the 787 S/Os being released. With F/O hours way down at the moment it’s not surprising that recruiting is on hold. But like all things at Jetstar the plan will most likely change.

[MACH082]

With up to 80 FOs waiting for start dates at the mothership, it won’t be too long before crew planning are caught with their pants down (again).

Dont worry though, being forced to work on your days off (company log of claims) should solve all their woes.

I’d say sit tight. Things change very quickly.

[chickoroll]

With up to 80 FOs waiting for start dates at the mothership, it won’t be too long before crew planning are caught with their pants down (again).

Dont worry though, being forced to work on your days off (company log of claims) should solve all their woes.

I’d say sit tight. Things change very quickly.



How can you be forced to work on a day off? Let’s just remove the WDO clause all together I would vote for that, I can imagine the cancelations now.

[wheels_down]

Have any of the cadets from the beginning way back, got commands yet?

[GA Driver]

How can you be forced to work on a day off?

It was a tongue in cheek comment from MACH082. The company want to introduce that into the next EBA, it was in their log of claims.

I tend to agree, with the f/o’s About to depart they will fall short very quickly. Captains have been at high hours for years so there isn’t much fat left in the crewing numbers. Sit tight....

[GA Driver]

Have any of the cadets from the beginning way back, got commands yet?

Theyre currently in training.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

I don’t know where that 80 figure came from of F/Os departing for QF, I’ve heard of only around 10 guys in Sydney getting in recently and less in Melbourne.

[chickoroll]

I think there is about 25 across JQ from what I’ve heard. Two skippers going also. Definitely not 80.

[rowdy trousers]

Does the JQ EBA company log of claims really include a proposal for a requirement to work on designated days off? I would like to see that.

[MACH082]

They can put anything in the proposed EBA they like. Doesn’t mean it’ll get a yes vote.

Even if they pay silly money for flexibility, eventually the crew will call enoughs and enough and vote for lifestyle measures.

From what I understand and correct me if I’m wrong, the company want the ability to call you out on a standby day which runs into days off. They want the ability to force you to work and pay you the WDOs. Presently you can say no to a duty that runs past 2300 into a day off.

Of course, the cynic in me would suggest they will lose standby coverage as there would be plenty of URTI days being used.

Anyway sit tight. There will be plenty of training going on shortly.

[Rated De]

Is it possible that it is all part of their IR posturing?
After all it is contract season and what better way to stop all those ambit claims by simply slowing recruitment and training and 'spinning' there is no shortage?

[GA Driver]

Is it possible that it is all part of their IR posturing?
After all it is contract season and what better way to stop all those ambit claims by simply slowing recruitment and training and 'spinning' there is no shortage?

Its a reasonable question RDe, but the planes can’t fly themselves just yet and the stick hours each month don’t lie. It’s probably a good trick that’s worked successfully in the past, but unless aeroplanes stop flying I don’t think it’s a plausible one that many people are going to swallow. Secondly we all know what happens if aeroplanes don’t fly..... management bonuses suffer.

[MACH082]

Interestingly the block hours for March are quite low.....perhaps the basket weavers have it right for now.

[chickoroll]

March is generally low don’t be fooled. I was rostered approx same hrs last March.

[Cleared for take-off]

How many on hold file at the moment? Would progression be similar on the 787 and narrowbody fleet be similiar times to mothership, what's the typical time frame? If 320 FO bid to fly the 787, what position do they move into?

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

How many on hold file at the moment? Would progression be similar on the 787 and narrowbody fleet be similiar times to mothership, what's the typical time frame? If 320 FO bid to fly the 787, what position do they move into?

Acording to the latest seniority list:

787 F/O approx 5 years from date of join.

A320 command currently around 6 years in Sydney.

Rough guides only of course as there are many variables, mainly how many extra airframes the A321LRs will result in.

[das Uber Soldat]

Acording to the latest seniority list:

787 F/O approx 5 years from date of join.

A320 command currently around 6 years in Sydney.

Rough guides only of course as there are many variables, mainly how many extra airframes the A321LRs will result in.
Whilst you're correct, it should be noted that time to command is going to blow out massively for anyone who joins now.

[chickoroll]

Be a good 10-12 yrs to command for the guys who started in the recruitment drive starting 2016 as all the entitled Cadets are starting to acquire the B/S ICUS and their 100hrs flying in circles in a diamond to get the hrs for the ATPL.

78 if they are still around be about 5-8 yrs in Mel, over 10yrs in any other base.

[Bula]

You guys crack me up.

Lets run some “whole” numbers shall we.

call the fleet size “50”. For optimism sake we will say they grow the fleet at 3% (which is more likely as shown with current fleet growth numbers).

3% Growth (Realistic)
10 years = 67 aircraft = 75 commands
15 years = 78 aircraft = 140 commands

6% Growth (Very Optimistic)
10 years = 90 aircraft = 200 commands
15 years = 120 aircraft = 350 commands

Now lets take into account retirements = 50 pilots over the next 10 years in JQ.

So in 10 years that will be 125 to 250 commands.

last Sydney command position 700.... (~70 FO’s eligible for commands above the 700 line)

corrected commands 55-180 commands from 700 onwards in 10 years

Seniority numbers 791 to 976 will have commands by 2029 from today.

791, time to command 18 years time to command in a realistic environment with no downsizing.

976, time to command 12 years in an extremely good optimistic environment.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Be a good 10-12 yrs to command for the guys who started in the recruitment drive starting 2016 as all the entitled Cadets are starting to acquire the B/S ICUS and their 100hrs flying in circles in a diamond to get the hrs for the ATPL.

78 if they are still around be about 5-8 yrs in Mel, over 10yrs in any other base.

If you don’t like cadets you’re in the wrong airline buddy

[kaz890]

Does anybody actually know how you're selected from the hold file?

[Notthisguy]

There's 3 main factors.

- Assessment day
- Notice period
- Company currently employed with

[das Uber Soldat]

You guys crack me up.

Lets run some “whole” numbers shall we.

call the fleet size “50”. Asia Pacific growth rate 6%. For optimism sake we will say they grow the fleet at 6% rather then 3% and returning higher yields (which is more likely as shown with current fleet growth numbers).

10 years = 67 aircraft = 75 commands
15 years = 78 aircraft = 140 commands

Now lets take into retirements = 50 pilots over the next 10 years in JQ.

So in 10 years that will be 125 commands.

last Sydney command position 700. That’s 208 positions along. Down to position 908 in 10 years.... start date 2015.

And this assumes no Q numbers are used, and Widebody comfortable FOs stay that way for another 10 years.

if you take WB FO into account, the same position (908) is almost 20 years to a command.

eh?

A 6% growth rate in fleet size per year, starting at 50, would result in 89 aircraft after 10 years. Where did 67 come from?

In Sept 16, most junior captain was 511.

Dec 18, most junior captain is 700. Removing Q numbers (I rather doubt people will be heading from Q to JQ in the current environment), that's 115 people given the opportunity of command in the last 2.5 years. How does that mesh with your estimate of 125 in 10? Especially given there has been no fleet expansion at all in this time?

Further, at a minimum 20 FO's are off to mainline, and 2 captains, thats another 15% off the number of those ahead for someone who joined in 2016.

Indicators to me, given the possible expansion in relation to the arrival of the NEO, normal attrition and the departure of a few to mainline is of a normal 7-10 year timeframe to command from time of joining. 20 is absurd.

[MajorLemond]

When I joined, the going rate was 5-8 years off an upgrade. It’s turned put to be pretty much on the money (8 years)

There are so many factors that can affect this however, so your best bet is to get in and get a number.

[MACH082]

If you want Sydney. It’ll be 7 odd years.

If you want anywhere else, it’ll be a long long wait.

[GA Driver]

Based on everything as it stands RIGHT NOW those sentiments above are probably something close to the mark. But it’s a cut throat airli...... oh I mean low cost airline and anything/everything or absolutely nothing is only just around the corner, so try not to look too far into the crystal ball.
I wouldn’t list ‘how long to command’ as your sole prerequisite to an airline job. Realistically just GETTING INTO an airline takes significantly less than it once did and as a result movement is slower as what I believe is the collateral damage. Just get IN first then spend the rest of your FO career bitching about time to command just like we all did.

[Bula]

Sorry, yeah those figures are at the realistic 3% rather than 6%. I’ve corrected it.

just because those numbers have been given the opportunity, what’s the percentage of uptake? It’s exactly why the number has gone so low so quickly. The comfort WB FOS will move up sooner of later. Still a lot of commands to be given between 511 and 700.... 60 to be exact.

[das Uber Soldat]

The percentage of uptake is irrelevant. If your goal is to pursue a command at JQ, then it is only the rate of offer of commands that really matters. 115 in 2.5 years with no fleet expansion (but certain expansion just around the corner) suggests to me that if a command is your goal, the timeframe will be significantly less than your estimate.

Once in however, maybe your goals change and like many, you elect to remain on the 787 has so many have done. Couple of 320 captains have even bid back to Fo's on the WB, as I'm sure you're aware.

Shrug.

[Bula]

I hope you’re right uber. I just don’t see it unless the NEO’s start arriving as additions rather than a 1 to 1 swap.

[wheels_down]

In 20 years that’s when the real fun will begin when a large generation of commercial pilots, who are the bulk of the current system, retire. The decline and lack of CPL’s being issued is fairly disturbing in recent years.

I’ve seen some early examples of this in other countries with shortage on skippers, for those relying on cadet schemes to solve the problem, in that they get caught out in they can’t upgrade FO’s fast enough due lack of experience and extended training experience required for cadets.

Probably a good time in the next decade to kickstart learning to fly.

[mattyj]

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/434x339/597af261_2968_4bc8_88b5_8e602a1f98c7_33da9e3dd222093a46ac53e 0341874aeee13958b.gif

[Smythe]

CAE Melbourne partners with Swinburne University of Technology to deliver this program for Jetstar. The Jetstar Cadet Pilot Program is an integrated flying training, flight theory and education program taking trainee pilots with zero or little flying experience* from ab initio to First or Second Officer positions within Jetstar Airways. It is a cadet pilot program whereby successful applicants will be offered a conditional offer of employment as a pilot by Jetstar Airways, subject to successful completion of the program.

This is an exceptional opportunity for aspiring pilots to train under the mentorship of Jetstar and go on to fly as First or Second Officers with the airline.

Jetstar Cadet program (https://www.cae.com/civil-aviation/aviation-professionals/become-a-pilot/our-pilot-training-programmes/jetstar-cadet-pilot-program/)

[thisishomebrand]

It seemed to pop up on CAE's own website/Facebook page before Jetstar's own website - applications open until 30th April.

I know this isn't new, but frustrating that it is set up so that you have to cop the 25% FEE-HELP admin fee as it is undergrad.

[Sceva]

Regarding Cadet program;
How many will they take in and how long from zero to hero?
...as there are some of us on the hold file still from late 2017/early 2018; will these guys be taking those slots in the end?

Recruitment are now saying no foreseeable intake this year either, due to priority internal upgrades and transfers. Others are saying still possibility of 50+ FOs leaving to QF..!

Thoughts appreciated, thanks!

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Hey Sceva,

are you a cadet cadet on hold or a direct entry on hold?

Cadets are being hired as 787 S/Os which will, continue through the year, however it is true that no F/O recruitment is planned this year. F/Os leaving for qantas won’t change things as we are already quite fat on F/Os.

[Robertsmith39]

Just thrown my hat in to the ring for the current Jetstar Cadetship. I’ll be interested to see if they bother progressing a 29 year old train driver who hasn’t studied anything formally since the HSC 12 years ago.

[GA Driver]

Captains or NZ Crew on the other hand...... seem to be as rare as hens teeth.....

[Sceva]

Thanks for the info ECAMS.
I’m on the Direct Entry hold file... Hence my levels of frustration and uncertainty!

[thisishomebrand]

Hey Sceva,

are you a cadet cadet on hold or a direct entry on hold?

Cadets are being hired as 787 S/Os which will, continue through the year, however it is true that no F/O recruitment is planned this year. F/Os leaving for qantas won’t change things as we are already quite fat on F/Os.

How long does it take a cadet to get from S/O on the 787 to F/O or A320 F/O?

[GA Driver]

They won’t allow s/o -> f/o on the wide body anymore. It was done a330 days but only a few got through and it was pretty much stopped due to the failure rates.
From memory it’s 3 years frozen as an s/o before you can bid back to the 320 as an f/o.

[kaz890]

Any updates on the hold file folks?

[cLeArIcE]

Any updates on the hold file folks?
Ive herd from a few people that there will be minimal to no FO recruitment this year. But as you know, things change all the time

[LostontheLOC]

I have been hearing people have received invites to Qantas Group medicals that have been on the Jetstar hold file.

Is this a an attempt to audit how many people are still interested in the company after such a ridiculous period of time, or actually something tangible and recruitment is starting to move again?

[mattyj]

No they need to do medicals to make sure they haven’t died of old age

[drunk_pilot]

No they need to do medicals to make sure they haven’t died of old age


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/610x457/f3f6d80e_2c48_4e62_96b9_069834ee3119_6bb0d059fee09392b2e7cd4 ae1393ee64a72b167.jpeg

[LostontheLOC]

Hahaha! That's depressingly accurate.

[Gear in transit]

They’re short in a few bases (and countries) no matter what the latest mantra is..... There’s a few people coming through, but its in small dribs and drabs at the moment.
AKL is definitely short, but the shakeup in CHC might be masking that for the short term.

[pilotchute]

Just tried to apply for Jetstar Singapore. I got tired of filling in the application after 40 mins. Same questions asked different ways and many questions that arent even relevant.
Surprisingly they didn't ask my shoe size!

[PPRuNeUser0184]

Just tried to apply for Jetstar Singapore. I got tired of filling in the application after 40 mins. Same questions asked different ways and many questions that arent even relevant.
Surprisingly they didn't ask my shoe size!

If 40min of filling in a application makes you tired then Jetstar probably isn’t for you.

[pilotchute]

Let me clarify. "After 40 mins" I got tired of it. I was nowhere near finished.

[Sceva]

They’re short in a few bases (and countries) no matter what the latest mantra is..... There’s a few people coming through, but its in small dribs and drabs at the moment.
AKL is definitely short, but the shakeup in CHC might be masking that for the short term.

Has anyone who got the latest Medical/EOI request email received a start date yet?
Or if anyone is one of those ‘dribs and drabs’; how long from medical to start?

I’m guessing they would like to get the new EA through with a ‘training wage’ attached before taking on a new truck load of hold file names..?
Good to know they’re still getting in...

...slowly...

[74world]

Did the QF pre employment medical as requested few weeks ago and I was advised of a possible course date in a couple of months
Then a week ago I've received an email saying that JetStar isn't recruting anymore, and won't be recruting until at least next year.

Apparently they've stopped ALL recruitments.

[wheels_down]

Is there crewing issues in some of the smaller bases? I’ve noticed a increase in cancellations in the last month or two from the smaller bases.

[Lookleft]

Jetstar are heading into their usual cycle of having too many pilots to not having enough pilots. Melbourne based F/O's are always doing 5 night stays in Newcastle and Cairns to cover the flying. The F/O's going to QF are not being replaced so expect to see cancellations as a regular event. The new rostering system starts in September and is touted as the answer to the problem but it will just create new problems as there is a lot more paxing involved, and we all know how well the airlines can maintain their schedules with ATC and weather delays.

[Gear in transit]

^^^^^^^^^https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/320x240/10cf20f7_0b4b_4b1f_a522_fc63f2349183_0358c1ed4f297fb969443f9 f389be87a85de511a.gif

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Jetstar are heading into their usual cycle of having too many pilots to not having enough pilots. Melbourne based F/O's are always doing 5 night stays in Newcastle and Cairns to cover the flying. The F/O's going to QF are not being replaced so expect to see cancellations as a regular event. The new rostering system starts in September and is touted as the answer to the problem but it will just create new problems as there is a lot more paxing involved, and we all know how well the airlines can maintain their schedules with ATC and weather delays.

QF will stop recruiting from September and SOs transitioning to A320 F/O will plug the gaps. How many F/Os have actually gone to Qantas this year? 10-15? Not huge numbers.

Have a a look at the September pairings. I think you’ll find there is actually a lot less paxing. For example on the ZQN trip we would always operate 2 domestic sectors then pax back to Melbourne (or vice versa) on day 2 of the trip. The September pairings have the crew operate each sector back to home base, which is a positive as I don’t think anyone particularly enjoys paxing.

The original document that was leaked a month or 2 ago appears to have been a furphy as it bares very little resemblance to the September pairings.

[Lookleft]

The pairings produced in June was a sample created by the system that will produce our rosters. I don't think it was a furphy I think it was an exercise in kite flying to guage the reaction of the pilots. They certainly got the reaction but not a positive one. Time will tell if the rosters are going to be better.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

The pairings produced in June was a sample created by the system that will produce our rosters. I don't think it was a furphy I think it was an exercise in kite flying to guage the reaction of the pilots. They certainly got the reaction but not a positive one. Time will tell if the rosters are going to be better.

im just saying, don’t jump at shadows. Rules have been put in place to stop some of the stupidity from the June document.

being able to see the pairings for a given month and being able to bid for them is also a massive advantage to the new system

[Ragnor]

im just saying, don’t jump at shadows. Rules have been put in place to stop some of the stupidity from the June document.

being able to see the pairings for a given month and being able to bid for them is also a massive advantage to the new system

Bid for pairings? We are talking about JQ right?

[Gear in transit]

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE is partially correct, you can bid for ONE pairing for the month.

[Sceva]

Network DE FOs training in ML next month. Then onto JQ for line training?

Does that plug some gaps too?

[Gear in transit]

It will for the short term (1-2 months) but only in the major bases. DE FO usually has 100 hours line training, prior jet experience is usually 80ish. If all their prior experience was f100 time, expect the latter unless network specify otherwise.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Network pilots doing line training still require a JQ FO in the jumpseat, so it makes no difference as there is still a full complement of JQ pilots for every flight. The same as the QF pilots doing their 787 training here.

[LostontheLOC]

Looks like the whispers are getting a little louder.

Apparently the Type is happening in the next month or so for an Oct/Nov induction... Are the flood gates opening again?

[Gear in transit]

There’s a course going through groundschool at the moment and another next month. They’re small groups, so I wouldn’t say the floodgates were open but like has been said earlier, there are dribs and drabs filtering through

[LostontheLOC]

The ground school at the moment is made up of cadets being upgraded. I believe (correct me if I am wrong), there has not been an external intake since mid last year?

[Gear in transit]

There has been a couple. Mostly NZ

[No Idea Either]

The safety pilot is only for a week or is it longer at JQ?

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

The safety pilot is only for a week or is it longer at JQ?

When it’s pilot training for another airline (Network pilots learning the A320) the safety pilot is for the duration of their training. If it’s internal training there is a table that determines how long the safety FO is required for

[Cragganmore]

What the shakeup in CHC? Base Closure? Anyone hear about assessment centres lately couldn’t get to the last one :*

[No Idea Either]

Thanks ECAM, now I know.

[aseriesofleftturns]

Internal EOI's went out today for JQ for placements early next year. Fingers crossed this is also extended to external applicants soon.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Internal EOI's went out today for JQ for placements early next year. Fingers crossed this is also extended to external applicants soon.

This is great news. Early 2020 coincides with around 6 months before the first A321neoLR is delivered. Management have communicated to the pilot group recently that the deliveries will result in a net gain of 7 airframes, which will require around 50 extra crews. Plus the JQ pilots heading to QF also need to be covered. Should be steady recruiting for a while hopefully.

[Fujiroll76]

This is great news. Early 2020 coincides with around 6 months before the first A321neoLR is delivered. Management have communicated to the pilot group recently that the deliveries will result in a net gain of 7 airframes, which will require around 50 extra crews. Plus the JQ pilots heading to QF also need to be covered. Should be steady recruiting for a while hopefully.


last time I looked there was over 50 on the active hold for JQ from the EOI back in 2016 (Internal)
I wouldn’t hold your breath if your not already on the list

[Ragnor]

Internal EOI's went out today for JQ for placements early next year. Fingers crossed this is also extended to external applicants soon.

You sure? I haven’t seen anything!

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

There’s an ad on Workday

[retardeduck]

Looks like the JQ Cadetship is back up for the March 2020 intake.

Anyone have some info on the application process/what they're actually looking for/ADAPT testing/current check to line time for cadets (assuming passes and fulfilment of conditional employment contract)? I'm thinking about applying but might have too much experience behind me for an ab-initio course (200TT, 150PIC), will probably call tomorrow and ask. Any info is fantastic.

Best of luck to anyone that applies.

[Inspired]

If you have anything above a PPL you are overqualified.

[Sparrows.]

And no conditional employment contract. Conditional offer of employment with nothing in writing.

[retardeduck]

If you have anything above a PPL you are overqualified.
Currently only RPC/RPL, but the relatively high hours might be too much for them. Will see what they say.


And no conditional employment contract. Conditional offer of employment with nothing in writing.
Interesting... I spoke to someone who got into the mid-year intake this year and she said they were offered a conditional employment contract in writing after the Stage 3 panel interview. Might double-check my source before applying.

Does anyone know what they are actually looking for in the application? Obviously passion and grit is a baseline so just trying to get a better idea of what I can do to better represent myself.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

And no conditional employment contract. Conditional offer of employment with nothing in writing.

every cadet that has successfully completed the course has been employed into Jetstar since the program began. The risk v reward of the program is pretty good I’d say.

Put yourself in the shoes of an 18 yo kid straight out of high school. An opportunity to do an 18 month course to then be flying all over Asia as a jet SO by the time they’re 20. And if they get sick of that, they have first dibs at positions within QF.

[wheels_down]

Has any cadets been upgraded command on the bus yet? Must have been 7 or 8 years since they started the program

[das Uber Soldat]

Has any cadets been upgraded command on the bus yet? Must have been 7 or 8 years since they started the program
Yeh there are a bunch of cadet captains getting around now.

[Ollie Onion]

Yep, lot's of them.

[Lookleft]

Put yourself in the shoes of an 18 yo kid straight out of high school. An opportunity to do an 18 month course to then be flying all over Asia as a jet SO by the time they’re 20. And if they get sick of that, they have first dibs at positions within QF.

From what I have observed there are not that many 18 yo straight out of school cadets and the ones that are, are immature in the way they conduct themselves. The best cadets I have flown with are those with some previous work experience. I do agree with you that they get sick of being a Jetstar pilot because they start to realise that airline flying is not all glamour and cool sunglasses. I'm not sure though why you think they won't eventually feel the same way after the excitement of being a QF SO wears off. I'm also not sure why you think that they get "first dibs" within QF. They get the same opportunity as any other QF Group pilot. In fact they get less opportunity until they achieve the minimum PIC requirements.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

From what I have observed there are not that many 18 yo straight out of school cadets and the ones that are, are immature in the way they conduct themselves. The best cadets I have flown with are those with some previous work experience. I do agree with you that they get sick of being a Jetstar pilot because they start to realise that airline flying is not all glamour and cool sunglasses. I'm not sure though why you think they won't eventually feel the same way after the excitement of being a QF SO wears off. I'm also not sure why you think that they get "first dibs" within QF. They get the same opportunity as any other QF Group pilot. In fact they get less opportunity until they achieve the minimum PIC requirements.

They get first dibs at QF mainline jobs, given the groups preference to internal applications. Dozens have gone/are going. It’s not hard to go and hire a Cessna for 50 hours and get the required PIC. Its a great fork in the road to have. Stay at JQ and get an early command (for most cadets by the time they’re in their early 30’s) or go to QF and enjoy the benefits of working for a legacy carrier.

I joined the airline as a cadet, straight out of high school and have loved the experience.

[retardeduck]

I joined the airline as a cadet, straight out of high school and have loved the experience.

ECAM would you mind if I sent you a PM?

[dr dre]

They get first dibs at QF mainline jobs, given the groups preference to internal applications. Dozens have gone/are going. It’s not hard to go and hire a Cessna for 50 hours and get the required PIC. Its a great fork in the road to have. Stay at JQ and get an early command (for most cadets by the time they’re in their early 30’s) or go to QF and enjoy the benefits of working for a legacy carrier.

I joined the airline as a cadet, straight out of high school and have loved the experience.

You know, despite all the “cadet bashing” that occurs on these forums from those who are not cadets it’s rare to meet someone who gained their job through a Cadetship and hasn’t had mostly positive experiences. I won’t say totally positive but for the most part those who’ve undergone most forms of cadetships generally wouldn’t have pursued a different path if they had their time over again.

[wheels_down]

By the time they leave school and go through Oxford by the time they are checked online with the Airbus they would be 21/22?

Which would put the new cadet captains at 28-30yrs old.

What about those who went right onto the 787. 787 SO to 320 FO to 320 CPT would be 15 years. Most probably leave for Emirates before it reaches that far.

I dont think Jetstar is a long term career airline for the cadets. Chances of staying 40 or 50 years?

[The Green Goblin]

Jetstar can be a great place to work. When you’re young, energetic and keen.

But it’s not a ‘for your entire career’ airline.

Unfortunately, the only career airline in Australia is Qantas. And you’ll be waiting most of your career to achieve your career goals.

When I was a G.A./regional airline pilot the mere thought of cadets invoked a passionate response. It wasn’t pure. It wasn’t how you’re supposed to do it. Queue jumpers. Selfish little wart faced gits. all that talk.

But - if you haven’t had a look around the boondocks recently, GA is a shadow of what it was when my contemporaries went up norf (sic). So cadets are the future. And I’d be a million ahead and in a far better career position than I am currently.

So if you’re considering a career in aviation. Join the QF group as a cadet and see where it takes you.

[Lookleft]

I joined the airline as a cadet, straight out of high school and have loved the experience.

I have no doubts at all that the experience has been a good one and that you have put in the required work to get through the course and become a 320 F/O. Your assertion however that Jetstar cadets have any greater chance or opportunity of moving to mainline than other QF group pilots is wrong. A lot of the early cadets have indeed moved onto a legacy carrier but it hasn't been Qantas. Air NZ are very happy to take Jetstar's cadets off their hand!

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Your assertion however that Jetstar cadets have any greater chance or opportunity of moving to mainline than other QF group pilots is wrong.

I never said that.

Group pilots in general have a better chance at joining QF mainline than external applicants (JQ, QLink, EFA)

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

ECAM would you mind if I sent you a PM?

go for it!!

[The Green Goblin]

I never said that.

Group pilots in general have a better chance at joining QF mainline than external applicants (JQ, QLink, EFA)

That’s not true either.

Group pilots get the first interview and entry to the hold. However they are released from the hold on a commercial basis.

So if you’re a link Pilot, some folk are still waiting from the first round of recruitment.

You’re better off being external and a 737 driver from the opposition.

Having said that, it’s good to see the company still recruit from within. There is a lot of experience now across the various divisions (and I mean divisions).

[wheels_down]

So have many cadets left in the last decade? I’d imagine turnover will be high once they are 5 years into a 10 year potential command upgrade wait.

The problem with cadets and I’ve seen this attitude as mentioned above is it’s not a career airline. This will bite in the future and they will get caught out with lack of people in the right seat because they don’t have anyone suitable left to upgrade. Or they can’t upgrade fast enough.

The ex GA guy or girl that has worked for half dozen operators in the past will probably stay longer having seen a lot, and end up in management roles.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

That’s not true either.

Group pilots get the first interview and entry to the hold. However they are released from the hold on a commercial basis.

So if you’re a link Pilot, some folk are still waiting from the first round of recruitment.

You’re better off being external and a 737 driver from the opposition.

Having said that, it’s good to see the company still recruitment from within. There is a lot of experience now across the various divisions (and I mean divisions).

that’s a good point, my comments were based on the fact that with each round of recruitment, applications tended to be open to internal applicants first. But you’re right, once on the hold file externals don’t have the problem of being held back by a subsidiary.

I havent been through the QF recruitment process myself so I’m definitely not an expert.

[Sparrows.]

Which would put the new cadet captains at 28-30yrs old.

What about those who went right onto the 787. 787 SO to 320 FO to 320 CPT would be 15 years.

Why?

How does being a 787 SO for 3 years cost you 7-8 years in getting your command? Approximately 7 years for a command, doesn’t mean 7 years as a 320 FO, means 7 years from the date you join.

[Lookleft]

But you’re right, once on the hold file externals don’t have the problem of being held back by a subsidiary. So being an internal applicant can be a disadvantage?

It has always been an advantage to apply from a non-group subsidiary or to advise QF recruitment that another airline is going to interview you.

The problem with cadets and I’ve seen this attitude as mentioned above is it’s not a career airline. This will bite in the future and they will get caught out with lack of people in the right seat because they don’t have anyone suitable left to upgrade. Or they can’t upgrade fast enough.

Given the experience levels of the F/O's recruited in the last two years JQ will not have a problem upgrading to the LHS. EC has already stated that he/she is a cadet and has also stated that they haven't gone through the QF process so that would suggest that they are looking at JQ as a career.

[The Green Goblin]

Why?

How does being a 787 SO for 3 years cost you 7-8 years in getting your command? Approximately 7 years for a command, doesn’t mean 7 years as a 320 FO, means 7 years from the date you join.

Probably because they’re not logging ICUS for their ATPL requirements in the back seat.

[Sparrows.]

Probably because they’re not logging ICUS for their ATPL requirements in the back seat.


150 hours ICUS with the 100 hours PIC cadets graduate with, would only take a couple of months now that any captain who’s been checked to line for 2 years can sign the ICUS off.

[wheels_down]

Hold on. So 5 years as a SO 787 back seat then your telling me they only need to log a year or two on the 320 FO before getting an upgrade? Essentially only two years of real domestic stick experience before getting the LHS? Sounds dangerous.

[das Uber Soldat]

Hold on. So 5 years as a SO 787 back seat then your telling me they only need to log a year or two on the 320 FO before getting an upgrade? Essentially only two years of real domestic stick experience before getting the LHS? Sounds dangerous.


Pretty much. The min experience requirements for command aren't huge.

[retardeduck]

For anyone who is interested in the cadetship, as long as PPL hasn't been acquired there is no limit on hours allowed (my 200TT is fine).

Secondarily, according to the lady I spoke with at CAE, 'you will be served very well if you have past experience such as flight hours, so please make sure you put it down, it'll be really good'. So I guess the majority of applicants apply with very little or no prior aviation experience (as would be expected for an ab-initio cadetship). Good to keep in mind though.

[dr dre]

Hold on. So 5 years as a SO 787 back seat then your telling me they only need to log a year or two on the 320 FO before getting an upgrade? Essentially only two years of real domestic stick experience before getting the LHS? Sounds dangerous.

Realistically it’d be far more than two years to command. There was an article about a JQ Pacific FO upgrading after about 5 years in the company and for Australian bases it’d be more.

But thats not too far off the minima in other parts of the world. I believe Ryanair are upgrading F/O’s after 3000hrs/3.5 years in company. This of course is cadets who were selected and trained for the role and were put on formal command preparation course for a few years prior to the upgrade. They’re flying more than 400 aircraft around a continent that is probably more challenging than this one and aren’t losing aircraft.

In the US some of their regional carriers using CRJ/E-Jets are currently upgrading FO’s after 1000 airline hours (after 1500hrs of mostly instructing) and just over a year in the airline. I’d argue that this isn’t as safe as a mentored Cadetship but they still aren’t losing aircraft.

With good selection and focused training, plus development of skills as an FO there’s no reason why a command upgrade can’t be done within 4-5 years, as other airlines have proved.

[das Uber Soldat]

Realistically it’d be far more than two years to command.

You reckon? Everyones favorite youtube personality/Music popstar sensation/male model just got onto the 320 from the 787. Looking at the numbers, there is every chance he'll hit the seniority before he hits the min hours requirement.

[The Green Goblin]

You reckon? Everyones favorite youtube personality/Music popstar sensation/male model just got onto the 320 from the 787. Looking at the numbers, there is every chance he'll hit the seniority before he hits the min hours requirement.

I look forward to the VLOG. Or does it start with an F?

[Sparrows.]

I look forward to the VLOG. Or does it start with an F?

Prepare yourself for the wedding VLOG half way through line training (I’m not kidding)!

[PoppaJo]

Realistically it’d be far more than two years to command. There was an article about a JQ Pacific FO upgrading after about 5 years in the company and for Australian bases it’d be more.

But thats not too far off the minima in other parts of the world. I believe Ryanair are upgrading F/O’s after 3000hrs/3.5 years in company. This of course is cadets who were selected and trained for the role and were put on formal command preparation course for a few years prior to the upgrade. They’re flying more than 400 aircraft around a continent that is probably more challenging than this one and aren’t losing aircraft.

In the US some of their regional carriers using CRJ/E-Jets are currently upgrading FO’s after 1000 airline hours (after 1500hrs of mostly instructing) and just over a year in the airline. I’d argue that this isn’t as safe as a mentored Cadetship but they still aren’t losing aircraft.

With good selection and focused training, plus development of skills as an FO there’s no reason why a command upgrade can’t be done within 4-5 years, as other airlines have proved.

Your missing the point.

What is is happening here is we have C172 200 hours, 5 years back seat watching on the 787, then as little as 18 months A320 FO before the command course.

There isn’t a lot of stick time in there. Forget the long haul 787 back seat time. That’s 18-24 months of domestic slogging.

And its happening. Early 787 SOs are now on the Airbus right now. Some are claiming they are getting upgraded Christmas of next year.

Don’t be surprised to see no more than a few thousand hours of TOTAL time BETWEEN both up front in years to come. Commonly seen in Air Asia and Vietjet and Bamboo Airways.

[Blueskymine]

If they hold an ATPL and pass the checks like everybody else, then good on them.

Theres only one way to gain experience.

[morno]

Your missing the point.

What is is happening here is we have C172 200 hours, 5 years back seat watching on the 787, then as little as 18 months A320 FO before the command course.

There isn’t a lot of stick time in there. Forget the long haul 787 back seat time. That’s 18-24 months of domestic slogging.

And its happening. Early 787 SOs are now on the Airbus right now. Some are claiming they are getting upgraded Christmas of next year.

Don’t be surprised to see no more than a few thousand hours of TOTAL time BETWEEN both up front in years to come. Commonly seen in Air Asia and Vietjet and Bamboo Airways.



They can claim all they want, but I doubt it’s going to happen.

Bamboo Airways hasn’t even been operating for 12 months yet Poppa. I don’t believe they even have an upgrade program yet, so your assertions on them I think are wrong

[pilotchute]

US regionals can upgrade an FO with only 1000 hours in the right seat. This is subject to you passing upgrade training of course. I have only seen one upgrade with the min hours. Most had between 1600 and 3000 hours as an FO.

They don't give out Capt bars in corn flakes packets.

[Lookleft]

Achieving a command has a lot more to do with the attitude of the candidate than just the flying skills. People fail command checks usually because of a lack of preparation and/or the failure to change the mindset from support pilot to PIC. Plenty of people with lots of hours have failed command checks. If they are not up to the hands on skills then they won't get through the sim component but in my experience the younger pilots are good at flying the simulator. If they put the work in and understand that they are now the person responsible for the entire operation of that aircraft from stepping in to stepping off it then they should be fine. If they still think they are the head prefect of senior school then they will have difficulties.

[PoppaJo]

US regionals are not upgrading FOs with 2000 hours onto a 100 tonne A321. I’m aware of these pilots existing in Vietnam and that’s about it. Easyjet will get you to at least 5000.

I never claimed Bamboo had an upgrade program, but I’m well aware they have low hours in both seats.

[Livelife09]

Hi everyone ,

Need some information please

1) How are Jetstar rosters?
is their any roster pattern you can opt for ?

2) I am a newly released A320 Captain . Is their any possibility that i can join Directly on a320 as a Captain (direct entry) or if not how much time to come on the left seat from right after having 1000 hours as PIC on the same aircraft .

thank you

[Livelife09]

2 quick question:-
1) Can a A320 Captain get direct entry on A320 fleet on the left seat?
2) If not how much time to come from right seat to the left if you have 1000 hours as PIC ?

i am talking about Jetstar

Thanks

[j3pipercub]

Lol, that's gold.

[das Uber Soldat]

2 quick question:-
1) Can a A320 Captain get direct entry on A320 fleet on the left seat?
2) If not how much time to come from right seat to the left if you have 1000 hours as PIC ?

i am talking about Jetstar

Thanks

No. And no

Just no
​

[HOOROO]

Current time to command at Jetstar NZ seems to be sitting at roughly 6-7 years. Hope that answers your question.

[Aviatrix91]

2 quick question:-
1) Can a A320 Captain get direct entry on A320 fleet on the left seat?
2) If not how much time to come from right seat to the left if you have 1000 hours as PIC ?

i am talking about Jetstar

Thanks

Livelife, Australian carriers are seniority based which means your previous experience has no impact on time to command, it’s based on the number you get when you join. I’m not quiet sure what the current time frame is but a year ago you could expect about 8 years right hand seat before a command

[Lookleft]

Livelife, Australian carriers are seniority based which means your previous experience has no impact on time to command, it’s based on the number you get when you join. I’m not quiet sure what the current time frame is but a year ago you could expect about 8 years right hand seat before a command

And that is after you have passed all the requirements for the right to work here if you are not a resident and any requirements to change your license to an Australian license.

[Ollie Onion]

That's not strictly true, where there is a lack of candidates that meet OM requirements then the 3 year time in company rule can be reduced to 2 years if the candidate has equivalent experience. This is why in the latest round a command allocation in Jetstar NZ went to a pilot with 2 years and 1 day's experience. It can happen, the average time in NZ at the moment is about 5 years but they have reached the bottom of the experience and time pool so now the next round will have people who have just completed their 3 years.

[wheels_down]

Ollie can one move from the left seat NZ to the left seat in Oz? Or back to the right for 7/8 years.

[Lookleft]

One AOC, two seniority lists. The only Captains in NZ who could come back to Aus. are those who are on LWOP on the Aus S/L. Unlikely as they are Kiwi and they want to live at home. For anyone else its to the bottom of the Aus S/L you go.

[Aby1990]

I saw an Ad on the Jetstar website if i am not wrong , that a Captain can join directly on turbo prop fleet as a Captain . Is it true?

Also how is life and work balance in Jetstar ?

[Aby1990]

That's not strictly true, where there is a lack of candidates that meet OM requirements then the 3 year time in company rule can be reduced to 2 years if the candidate has equivalent experience. This is why in the latest round a command allocation in Jetstar NZ went to a pilot with 2 years and 1 day's experience. It can happen, the average time in NZ at the moment is about 5 years but they have reached the bottom of the experience and time pool so now the next round will have people who have just completed their 3 years.

How much is the requirement if you know?
Thanks

[Hellothere120]

Has anyone else applied for the recently listed Jet Star Cabin crew Auckland opportunities recently?

Have you heard back at all? :)

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Recruitment reopened on Friday!

Good luck to all that apply!

[kaz890]

What’s happening with the guys on the hold file? Anyone getting a start date?

[Sceva]

What’s happening with the guys on the hold file? Anyone getting a start date?

We are still here :zzz:
:ugh:

[TangoYankee777]

Hi there all,

Just wondering whether anyone has some tips for practicing the ADAPT testing, i.e. for JQ Cadetship intake? Particularly FAST testing as I struggled with this last intake (hence not progressing to the next stage). Any tips/recommendations for the best websites to purchase practice material would be awesome, just trying to make the best investment possible to give me as good a chance to go on to fly for JQ!

Admin if this is off topic/not allowed please don't hesitate to remove.

Cheers guys

[LostontheLOC]

What’s happening with the guys on the hold file? Anyone getting a start date?

Yeah, start dates are happening, few externals already training and more coming later this year.

[DJ36]

I am curious to what experience and background some of the people on the hold file have? I hear that you can be skipped by people who have greater experience etc?

[LostontheLOC]

From the horses mouth, there's apparently 3 main factors that determine your start date "preference".

- How you preformed on the interview day (recomended/highly recommended)
- Notice period
- Company currently employed with (Eg, they are not going to take 9 people from Ambulance Victoria in one hit again)


I believe the average experience level currently is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 3k TT, and some experience with multi crew or at least command on a B200 or like.

But who knows if that's even true, it's only what they have passed on, that whole part of the company is like a black-hole with decision making.

[DJ36]

I would assume the minimum notice anyone would give is 4weeks isn’t it?

[LostontheLOC]

Offer zero mate, it puts you at the front of the line, but by the time they get their ducks in a row, it will be a month.

[Hold_Short]

Hi guys,

Does anyone have the current time to a base transfer to Gold Coast or Brisbane if they become a new recruit next year?

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Hi guys,

Does anyone have the current time to a base transfer to Gold Coast or Brisbane if they become a new recruit next year?

probably around 18-24 months. Maybe less though with the movement that’ll be created with the NEOs coming next year

[kaz890]

Is it possible when you’re given the instructions to do the Qantas medical that you may have a potential start date?

[DJ36]

From the horses mouth, there's apparently 3 main factors that determine your start date "preference".

- How you preformed on the interview day (recomended/highly recommended)
- Notice period
- Company currently employed with (Eg, they are not going to take 9 people from Ambulance Victoria in one hit again)


I believe the average experience level currently is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 3k TT, and some experience with multi crew or at least command on a B200 or like.

But who knows if that's even true, it's only what they have passed on, that whole part of the company is like a black-hole with decision making.

So you essentially need to have REX on your resume to get a job? lol

["Littlebird"]

Is it possible when you’re given the instructions to do the Qantas medical that you may have a potential start date?
No! My son did the medical ($780 as he required some extra eye tests) and was on the hold file for nearly 2 years. He recently decided to exercise his options overseas, now flying in Europe.
My nephew also did his medical over 2 years ago, was given a start date with only 2 weeks to go and had to decline as he required at least 4 weeks. He heard nothing for another 12 months even though he rang and emailed every 2 weeks. Eventually he received an email informing him that he no longer was on the hold file as the assessment centre results had expired. He went overseas for 12 months got the experience and now lives in Oz commuting to Japan and loving every millisecond.
The morale to the story is that this airline is incompetent when it comes to pilot recruitment. Hopefully things have changed for your sake. Just remember it's a Global Market.
L.B

[kaz890]

It doesn’t make sense to start recruiting again when there are so many of us on the hold file!

[PoppaJo]

I am curious to what experience and background some of the people on the hold file have? I hear that you can be skipped by people who have greater experience etc?

Yes and those at Rex with 5-10k hours are and will always be the main target. Anyone else pushed aside.

Get a command at Rex and your all but guaranteed a gig.

[74world]

Same thing here !!!
Did my medical few months ago.....almost got a start date (October), then few weeks after my medical was submitted, Jetstar STOPPED HIRING.
So I'm now swimming in the pool ("hold file") for up to 2 years.:cool:

[Blueskymine]

It doesn’t make sense to start recruiting again when there are so many of us on the hold file!

You can’t have a department sitting idle. They’ve got to justify their existence.

There’s only so many baskets they can weave after all.

[74world]

Dam Blueskymine, I've never thougth about that, but you are spot on !!!!!
I can't see any other reasons.....

[LostontheLOC]

Dam Blueskymine, I've never thougth about that, but you are spot on !!!!!
I can't see any other reasons.....

I don't think that hold file is as big as people are thinking it is. There will be a min active hold file number, and the update to the hold file they received in July with amount of candidates they have lost to other airlines, plus the latest start dates given, I can see they will need to increase the reserve again.

[Ragnor]

Try a UK mob talent Q. The process is not all that hard.
JQ will need plenty of new FOs to enable them to upgrade FOs from 320 and 78 for the impending arrival of the 321n also plenty of skippers in the process of other employment opportunities. I would guess this recruitment drive will go longer then the last one started in 2016.

[a380neo]

G'day boys and girls.

Anyone know an updated time to 78 F/O after joining 320 F/O as a new hire? or time to command on both?

Also an updated and simplified version of the latest pay at JQ for both the bus and the Boeing?

Currently overseas and looking to come home, weighing up options. I also hear Tiger is getting paid more than JQ? what's going on there? Will JQ raise salaries anytime soon?

Thanks for any helpful responses!

Safe skies.

[PoppaJo]

G'day boys and girls.

Anyone know an updated time to 78 F/O after joining 320 F/O as a new hire? or time to command on both?

Also an updated and simplified version of the latest pay at JQ for both the bus and the Boeing?

Currently overseas and looking to come home, weighing up options. I also hear Tiger is getting paid more than JQ? what's going on there? Will JQ raise salaries anytime soon?

Thanks for any helpful responses!

Safe skies.
Tiger pays about 20% more, and that’s because the pilot body fought for it. The operation does not make cash but it’s not going anywhere from my info.

The issue you might face is your overseas. This operation usually goes for regional right seat or skippers. A Rex captain will be favoured over a Emirates super captain wanting to come home to retire in the near term. They go for these guys because they are good pilots without long term career politics, have good training past and have a higher chance of hanging around till retirement.

If your abroad more chances of Tiger taking you on. Alliance might be interested. Jetstar taking you on it might be a long process.

[a380neo]

Thanks PoppaJo, I'm nowhere near retirement yet in fact I've just started at the game. I am currently on the 320 at a low cost carrier, bonded here for another 2ish years then wanna make the call whether to move to someone like EK or come home. To be absolutely honest with you a big shiny 777/380 isn't really doing it for me considering Dubai is like a layover for those guys. I wanna be sleeping in my bed at the end of most days and being around to start a family. Being back home in Aus is also a big attraction.

So you reckon a young Aussie bloke with 1,500hrs on a 320 won't make the cut for them?

Also is time to command still around 8 years? And what about the guys aspiring to be 78 skippers? What's the time frame on that?

Cheers.

[morno]

And what about the guys aspiring to be 78 skippers? What's the time frame on that?

Probably longer than any of the 787's will ever be there for. Scratch that one off your list.

[a380neo]

Well.. QF being the dream, would it be right to say joining JQ first and applying internally be a better chance than trying to apply direct?

[Gligg]

'So you reckon a young Aussie bloke with 1,500hrs on a 320 won't make the cut for them?'

I've found the best way to look at Australian aviation is like a small country town - you might have more than enough on the resume, but if you're from out of town you may be looked on with suspicion at the pub (read interview room)

[blanikman]

This might be a long shot, but does anyone have rough idea of whether the Avalon base is sought after and what seniority you'd need to transfer there?

[Ragnor]

This might be a long shot, but does anyone have rough idea of whether the Avalon base is sought after and what seniority you'd need to transfer there?

newbie could get there, it’s not all that sought after.

[PoppaJo]

Avalon does have quite long shifts, 5a-3p or 3p-12a

[blanikman]

Avalon does have quite long shifts, 5a-3p or 3p-12a

Thanks PoppaJo… These are shorter shifts than I am doing presently so that doesn't sound so bad right now... :)

[DJ36]

Does anyone have any idea of how many applicants have made it through to the assessment days and how many they are looking to hire?

[Gear in transit]

They're not giving too much away in the recruitment numbers at the moment. It's EBA time... BUT NEO's are coming, They will need more pilots if the aircraft numbers they indicated are correct.

[blanikman]

I know applications are open until 18th Nov, but has anyone been offered the aptitude testing yet? I have heard nothing since the application.

[DJ36]

I know applications are open until 18th Nov, but has anyone been offered the aptitude testing yet? I have heard nothing since the application.

I received the aptitude test 2 days after applying and then an invitation to an assessment day 1 week later.

[blanikman]

I received the aptitude test 2 days after applying and then an invitation to an assessment day 1 week later.

Been about 4 weeks for me. On the bright side I guess I have longer to prepare if I do get the call.

[mhmalins]

By assessment do you mean, the skills assessment, or the stage 3 group interview?

[DJ36]

By assessment do you mean, the skills assessment, or the stage 3 group interview?

I mean the assessment day where we do a group activity, panel interview and sim ride.

[Jbrownie]

Does anyone know if Melbourne base as a new hire is possible? Does it need much seniority to bid for. Some info on rosters for melb/Sydney would be appreciated

[Gear in transit]

Sydney and Melbourne are the bases where most newbies end up in aus, Auckland for NZ hires.
Sydney more so at the moment. Usually 3-6 months wait if you’re unlucky enough to get the wrong one. if you want one of the other bases, ADL, CNS etc can take a year or more. People do commute but it’s pretty tough on a JQ roster and with a 6month staff travel wait, also expensive.

[Parrot Pilot]

Is it still the case that JQ don’t pay until you have completed your A320 TR?

[GA Driver]

Yep, your start date is your Head office visit followed by groundschool.

[uhoh]

Sydney and Melbourne are the bases where most newbies end up in aus, Auckland for NZ hires.
Sydney more so at the moment. Usually 3-6 months wait if you’re unlucky enough to get the wrong one. if you want one of the other bases, ADL, CNS etc can take a year or more. People do commute but it’s pretty tough on a JQ roster and with a 6month staff travel wait, also expensive.

How sought after is a Perth base and how long could one be looking to transfer if based on the East Coast initially?

Cheers

[Gear in transit]

Perth is typical WA. People go there and then wait to die.... So little movement from the captain front, f/o a LITTLE more as they usually realise a command will come up there never. You will generally get the base you’re after, but it’s all just a waiting game as has been said above.

[AviatoR21]

Any other base you’ll have to wait 12 months if you’re unlucky. Perth atleast 5 years from what I’ve seen.

[Parrot Pilot]

Yep, your start date is your Head office visit followed by groundschool.

Thanks mate, do you know where they are conducting the TR and/or how long the TR it is from start to day one with the company?

[Ragnor]

Thanks mate, do you know where they are conducting the TR and/or how long the TR it is from start to day one with the company?

Are they hiring are they? Has anyone actually done an interview?

[Gear in transit]

Thanks mate, do you know where they are conducting the TR and/or how long the TR it is from start to day one with the company?

It depends, many MANY TR’ings have been completed in Southampton (known to be a Rubbish endorsement) the last few have been done at Ansett and also AirNz. It would just depend where the availability is. How long? Usually 8-12 weeks, but mine isn’t recent, so that could be a bit off nowadays. Obviously a bit less if there’s no travel to the UK.

[kaz890]

Do you guys think the EBA negotiations and the possible disruption over Christmas will have an impact on hiring and training?

[Lookleft]

It will have no impact whatsoever. The people looking after the hiring and training are different to the people doing the EBA negotiations. Never assume that JQ use a coordinated strategy to be energetically efficient!

[DJ36]

Does anyone have a gauge on the usual wait time for feedback following an assessment day? I am quickly wearing out the refresh button on my emails.

[Sceva]

Does anyone have a gauge on the usual wait time for feedback following an assessment day? I am quickly wearing out the refresh button on my emails.

Back when I applied it was anywhere from a month to a few months. For the new/recent applicants I’ve heard as few 2-10 days... It’s all over the place.
So are their start dates, as I’ve heard ‘early 2020’ and have also heard ‘after May 2020 due NZ closures’...

Sorry I can’t give you more

[Blueskymine]

Does anyone have a gauge on the usual wait time for feedback following an assessment day? I am quickly wearing out the refresh button on my emails.

Until they tell you no....usually it’s at least a 6 week thing. But if it’s a no, it’s pretty quick.