Eithad 30 injured, broken bones, air turbulance [Archive]

Yaw String

5th May 2016, 10:24

I suggest we employ an inspector....Lets call him "Blakey"..
"You orrible person you...don't you read the safetycard,don't you listen to the cabin staff,and the Captain"..Slap..$30 fine!
When the blaggard declares innocence,explain to him that all the other passengers,safely strapped in,will sue him,if he is the cause of a diversion for medical attention,leading to them,not arriving at their destination.....Simple...

aox

5th May 2016, 10:39

The article contains the phrase "The United Arab Emirates' national airline said the cabin luggage bins were damaged and passengers said oxygen masks were released during the shaking."

That doesn't yet elaborate on whether the bins were damaged by unstrapped people involuntarily headbutting them, or whether they burst open or collapsed.

Daft question: can the latter ever happen, or is it certain this must be only about too many people not being strapped in?

hedge

5th May 2016, 11:47

Yaw String. Ever the voice of reason. As this was on a bus Blakey would be quite apt.

Runway101

5th May 2016, 12:28

The Aviation Herald has some pictures from inside the cabin:
Accident: Etihad A332 near Jakarta on May 4th 2016, turbulence injures 32 (http://avherald.com/h?article=497d4787&opt=0)

Runway101

5th May 2016, 12:31

And here are photos and videos:
http://7efna.com/27737.html

(found via Google reverse image search with one of the Aviation Herald pictures)

Capot

5th May 2016, 15:25

On a point of order, experience of the sensitivities of the UAE's constituent Emirates leads me to think that no one airline, mentionable or otherwise, can call itself the UAE's National Airline.

The last airline to try for that title was Gulf Air, 30++ years ago, and look what happened to that.

finfly1

5th May 2016, 16:49

Did not see any unbelted passengers in the video.

DaveReidUK

5th May 2016, 17:09

Did not see any unbelted passengers in the video.

The video clearly does not show the worst of the turbulence.

Denti

5th May 2016, 17:18

On a point of order, experience of the sensitivities of the UAE's constituent Emirates leads me to think that no one airline, mentionable or otherwise, can call itself the UAE's National Airline.

Actually, visit their website and you gonna see that they indeed do just that. In line with Abu Dhabi being the official capital of the UAE. Now, the biggest airline in the UAE is of course based an hour or so down the road.

Capot

5th May 2016, 18:54

Actually, visit their website and you gonna see that they indeed do just that. You are quite correct, so they do. Perhaps I ought to have written "should call itself the UAE's National Airline." I suppose the deal under which Abu Dhabi bailed out Dubai from bankruptcy a few years ago may have included nominating Abu Dhabi's airline as the National Carrier, along with calling the tallest building Burg al Khalifa, instead of its planned name. But I very much doubt that the other Emirates regard a certain airline based in the West of the UAE as their National Carrier!

Funnily enough a private airline started in Abu Dhabi in the 1970's called Emirates Air Services or something very similar, which took a couple of oil company contracts off Gulf Air, operating DH Dash 7s, but it sank without trace.

Prior to that, in 1967, Sh Zaid issued a decree to an Englishman to set up Abu Dhabi Air Services as Abu Dhabi's National Carrier, as a limited company with Abu Dhabi shareholders. But Gulf Aviation, now Gulf Air, and BOAC stepped in very quickly and killed it at birth by persuading Sh Zaid to buy half of BOAC's 50% share of Gulf Aviation. Bahrain and Qatar already had 25% each, Abu Dhabi bought 25%, and the remaining 25% was earmarked for, and bought by Oman. The dream was an immensely powerful airline owned by all 4 States, operating as the National Carrier of each.

But Dubai refused to accept the Abu Dhabi's share was the UAE's share, and within a few years Emirates was born. That triggered to start of new airlines in Qatar, Oman and of course Abu Dhabi eventually, and poor old Gulf Air reverted to being Bahrain's airline only.

The name Abu Dhabi Air Services was eventually used when the existing two private handling agencies were bought by the Government and merged into ADAS, in the 1970's.

How did all that potted history come from a story about turbulence?!

PC767

5th May 2016, 19:33

Having watched the video to the end, through the commotion one can hear a welcome to Jakata p.a. This was taken upon / after landing.

Looking at the photographs of overhead bin and ceiling damage, I'd venture to say this is high energy levitating human damage. I'd also say oooch!

Sober Lark

6th May 2016, 06:57

Overhead luggage seems to have been well contained.

markkal

6th May 2016, 07:01

Massive religious chantingrecorded on video footage

Huck

6th May 2016, 08:06

Folks that's applause at the very beginning of that video.

They were clapping because they had just touched down.

NBC news showed it with the sound off last night and claimed it was inflight footage of the turbulence. It's the bumps on the runway....

mgahan

6th May 2016, 08:16

I fly (as a passenger) on the Asia/ME routes quite often and almost always the economy sections are full - mainly maids and labourers on their first or second flight. When the seat belt sign is turned off after departure you can hear the clicks as most of them unbuckle. Why not? The sign said "buckle up" and now it's off!!!

Culturally, most of them live in a society where prohibition rules so when the prohibition is removed... . Try looking for a seat belt in the rear seats of a taxi in Jakarta or KL.

Why not leave the sign illuminated and make a cabin announcement that it's now OK to move about the cabin, IF YOU NEED TO.

And don't get me started on the rush to stand up as soon a possible after landing.

gtaflyer

6th May 2016, 09:48

One word: seatbelt !

Yes that's the smoking gun the seat belt sign was not on this opens up a can of worms

Hotel Tango

6th May 2016, 10:44

lomapaseo

6th May 2016, 12:02

Why? That all depends if the turbulence was expected. No reason to be paranoid like the Americans and leave the seat belt sign on for the duration of the flight. That's even more counter productive. Most carriers clearly state that "turbulence can occur at any time and seat belts should be fastened when in your seat even if the seat belt sign is switched off".

Clearly the crux of the problem.

So where's the solution?

One can not expect the uninformed and ignorant passengers to solve such a problem on their own.

Is there a reasonable chance that some will respond to video screen showing passengers bouncing off ceilings during a quiet time while dozing?

Or should the extra attention be for the crew to anticipate high risk encounters over a portion of the flight?

DirtyProp

6th May 2016, 12:50

So where's the solution?

Stronger cabin ceilings.
:E
And much more padding material.

Basil

6th May 2016, 13:16

I think one would be more than a little miffed if a 120kg unrestrained blob landed on one's little kid :*

SLFguy

6th May 2016, 13:26

Yes that's the smoking gun the seat belt sign was not on this opens up a can of worms

Folks that's applause at the very beginning of that video.

They were clapping because they had just touched down.

NBC news showed it with the sound off last night and claimed it was inflight footage of the turbulence. It's the bumps on the runway....

This needs reconciling.

enola-gay

6th May 2016, 15:12

At 54 seconds into the video, the purser announced in English " we have just landed at Jakarta, please keep your seat belts fastened"

It is not a video of the incident, but of the touchdown, beyond any doubt.

Capn Bloggs

7th May 2016, 04:12

Yes that's the smoking gun the seat belt sign was not on this opens up a can of worms
No it doesn't. In my operation we instruct the pax to keep their seatbelts on whenever seated, regardless of the seatbelt sign. Only idiots undo it while seated.

If the seatbelt sign was on all the time, there would be no cabin service and no visits to the loo.

Why is Prune currently strangling my browser?

SLFguy

7th May 2016, 08:21

It is not a video of the incident, but of the touchdown, beyond any doubt.

Not arguing with you but are the seat belts signs on?

neila83

7th May 2016, 16:15

Ahh good, a turbulence video, this gives us pilots a chance to learn about avoiding...ahh sod that lets just blame the pax.

I never understand the lack of empathy for people who get seriously hurt in turbulence. Firstly as most people (surveys say 70% or so) are nervous about flying, such an experience would be utterly terrifying. Then, whatever time of flight, there will always be some
Pax up for bathroom etc. This was near top of descent, normally more are up then doing last bathrooms breaks.

Furthermore, on some airlines, they seem to keep the belt sign on the entire flight, whatever the conditions. This is why pax dont take it seriously. Obviously they have to get up some time (i believe the in flight magazine tells us to move around to avoid dvt).

Lastly, i would love to know how many of the seat belt fanatics wear a belt in taxis/buses. given that people are constantly told flying is the safest form of travel, and given no clear warning why they should keep their belt on (if you want oax to wear it show them what happens in CAT, most people have bo idea!) of course they dont wear it. And of course a pilot even takes it off if he's flying non-rev and needs the facilities near TOD.

People got hurt, it's the pilots job to avoid that if at all possible. As humans i'd hope your first instinct would-be sympathy.

neila83

7th May 2016, 20:22

No it doesn't. In my operation we instruct the pax to keep their seatbelts on whenever seated, regardless of the seatbelt sign. Only idiots undo it while seated.

If the seatbelt sign was on all the time, there would be no cabin service and no visits to the loo.

Why is Prune currently strangling my browser?

'Only idiots'? Oh to be as superior as you. I'm sure a good few of these people were just going to the toilet, is sympathy so hard?

As I'm sure you're aware in plenty of countries people don't wear seatbelts for road transport. hell even in the UK people don't in cabs. Airlines give a generic recommendation to keep your belt fastened, but do not make the threat at all clear, just a line about 'in case if unexpected turbulence'. People think that just means a few bumps. If you want people to take it seriously, then state 'turbulence can cause objects including pax to be flung around the cabin and potentially break their neck'. Then you might get their attention.

People are told flying is so much safer than any other transport (actually a total misuse of statistics - per journey it is not so safe at all - and then insurers use the real risk rather than the marketing), but then some in the industry seem to expect them to behave as if they are in constant danger as long as they're in a plane. People treat it the same as being a passenger in any other form of transport, which invariably doesn't even have a seatbelt, so of course a lot of people don't see why flyig along in a smooth cruise they should be worried. People want to enjoy the ride as they would a bus or train. Airlines could tell them why it is so important, but they obviously think telling already nervous people about CAT isn't great for their image.

enola-gay

7th May 2016, 21:00

I can see a clear action plan here. Only pax with ICAO approved catheters and ankle bags, together with installed stoma apparatus should be allowed to fly.

That will completely remove the need for lavatory visits, and extra seats can be installed on LoCos. Seat belts can then be compulsory throughout the flight for this new cohort of safe pax.

Other than that, there is no solution to rare and unexpected heavy turbulence.

Praying in the aisles is clearly counterproductive and should be banned.

As for the Indonesian pilgrims rejoicing in the video on landing at Soekarno-Hatta, try an Alitalia plane at Leonardo da Vinci for comparision. Is "God is great" or clapping to "Holy Mary, mother of God" preferable?

Capn Bloggs

8th May 2016, 02:38

'Only idiots'? Oh to be as superior as you. I'm sure a good few of these people were just going to the toilet, is sympathy so hard?

If you are going to quote me, please do it properly. I said "Only idiots undo it while seated." I have no problem with somebody going to the loo or stretching their legs. If you are seated and you don't have your belt on, you are an idiot.

Airlines could tell them why it is so important
Ours do: "in case of unexpected turbulence". If that frightens people, they need to toughen up.

OzSync

8th May 2016, 05:22

I have travelled on two other large ME carriers and I am always amazed at the lack of respect given to the seatbelt sign, crew constantly walking around, people still get up and open their lockers or go to the toilet and I've never seen crew stop them unless it is during taxi out or just before landing.

The lack of seat belt discipline compared to the airline I fly for truly is astonishing.

mgahan

8th May 2016, 08:04

Ozsync,

In the ME and Asia, to my vast experience as a pax in both regions over the past decade and a half, the cabin team will only intervene when pax unbelt and stand up during the taxi after landing if some idiot like me yells, "Sit down you mob!".

Even that did not work yesterday on the Doha/Dubai flight. We stopped momentarily well away from the gate and before we did the last 90 degree turn on to the gate. 80% - I kid you not - of the economy cabin were on their feet and opening lockers. After 14 hours Montreal/Doha and a messy transit (bloody security idiots again) and knowing full well I was going to miss Happy Hours(s) at the Shang I was in a foul mood so I said a little more than usual.

Totally ignored!! It was like speaking logically to a well known Australian aviation expert.

Oh, and I agree with Blogs: seated pax with seat belts undone are idiots and probably have an IQ less than the midday temperature in Montreal last week.

Plan A is to make up for the lost HH yesterday when I go to the 41st floor this afternoon.

neila83

8th May 2016, 16:05

If you are going to quote me, please do it properly. I said "Only idiots undo it while seated." I have no problem with somebody going to the loo or stretching their legs. If you are seated and you don't have your belt on, you are an idiot.

So you have evidence everyone on this flight was seated without belt on? Please share. Otherwise, why the rush to judge? When plane crashes we don't all rush to judge the pilots without shred of evidence, so why blame the pax here. People got in a plane expecting to get sonewhere and got hurt badly,that's a shame. Crew too, just doing their jobs.

Ours do: "in case of unexpected turbulence". If that frightens people, they need to toughen up.

If you are going to quote me please do it properly. I actually said '
Airlines give a generic recommendation to keep your belt fastened, but do not make the threat at all clear, just a line about 'in case of unexpected turbulence'. People think that just means a few bumps'.

Most people don't fly often and have no idea how bad turbulence can be. Airlines choose not to tell them, and frankly, people seee cabin crew carrying out service and not surprisingly make the assumption all is OK. I imagine when crew are told to sit down most people strap up, I would agree anyone who doesn't then is an idiot.

As someone noted, planes will hit turbulence, people will get hurt. If it's a big plane long haul crew could be 20+ people, so it is easy to get a lot of people injures with only a few pax moving around. Likely most injured pax were up for perfectly good reason.

Load Toad

9th May 2016, 07:43

Speaking as a regular flyer, passenger - it seems to me many passengers don't see or hear anything, live in their own little worlds are are both ignorant and pretty stupid.

I really have to tune out otherwise I'd soon be arrested for causing actual bodily harm on some of my fellow travellers.

IcePack

9th May 2016, 10:30

On one of our flts a female pax out of BAH decided to undo her seat belt. After crew had done a check after signs were put on.
The aircraft entered the rough bit. This person got launched into the ceiling & back down onto the arm rest. Broke her pelvis. Apparently their was no truth to the rumour that one of the cabin crew told her. Serves you bl*** well right.

Really there needs to be more education on use of seat belts but I guess you will always get one or two who know better & have the attitude. "You can't tell me what to do"

Hotel Tango

9th May 2016, 10:53

Load Toad, I know what you mean. What infuriates me even more though are dead-heading crew seated in the cabin talking incessantly through the safety briefing! Bad manners and not a good example to the pax around them. Seen it quite a few times in my 50 plus years as pax, including British and American crew (which makes it even worse for me).

360BakTrak

9th May 2016, 12:00

We stopped momentarily well away from the gate and before we did the last 90 degree turn on to the gate. 80% - I kid you not - of the economy cabin were on their feet and opening lockers.

I've been on said airline before and people have been getting up & opening lockers while reverse thrust was still rumbling on! Not a peep from the cabin crew. :ugh:

lomapaseo

9th May 2016, 13:17

all this gets solved when the airlines put in those drop down bars like they use on carnival rides.

Interested Passenger

9th May 2016, 13:39

maybe the seatbelt sign should be red/amber/green

RED - DO NOT REMOVE SEATBELT
Amber - Keep seatbelt fastened unless you are going to the loo
Green - off you toddle

Hotel Tango

9th May 2016, 13:58

Green - off you toddle

That one could only be used once parked at the gate after arrival, never in flight as, despite all the little tricks of the trade, some turbulent patches just cannot be anticipated in good time.

Flying Clog

9th May 2016, 15:21

Or just don't let the peasants travel - simples!

But, like one dodgy Asian airline has painted on their aircraft - "Now Everyone Can Fly".

Every time I see that I roll my eyes and hark back to the good old days. What a sad state the industry is in.

HamishMcBush

9th May 2016, 18:50

But, like one dodgy Asian airline has painted on their aircraft - "Now Everyone Can Fly".

Every time I see that I roll my eyes and hark back to the good old days. What a sad state the industry is in.
Sadly I've tried flappping my arms about but I've yet to get airborne !

Mr Optimistic

9th May 2016, 20:09

Slf: Capn Bloggs gets my vote. If you illuminate a sign which people have to ignore to use toilets, or which shine while cc are serving dinner, no surprise the little light is ignored Replace the sign with a warning symbol which only lights when needed. Otherwise say that you should fasten belts at all times when seated. Repeat it. Enforce it. There is only so much a little light bulb can do.

In the mean time I will strive to toughen up :)

Alanwsg

23rd May 2016, 10:44

From 'The register' today ....
Shakes on a plane: How dangerous is turbulence? ? The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/05/23/explainer_how_dangerous_is_turbulence_and_can_it_bring_down_ a_plane/)

Lonewolf_50

23rd May 2016, 12:38

This is for neila83 (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/578574-eithad-30-injured-broken-bones-air-turbulance-2.html#post9369103) :
Lastly, i would love to know how many of the seat belt fanatics wear a belt in taxis/buses. Given that people are constantly told flying is the safest form of travel, and given no clear warning why they should keep their belt on (if you want oax to wear it show them what happens in CAT, most people have no idea!) of course they dont wear it. And of course a pilot even takes it off if he's flying non-rev and needs the facilities near TOD.
On the rare occasions that I use cabs, I put on my seat belt. On those busses and trams that have them, I use them. As a pax on an aircraft, I put on my seat belt when I sit down, and only take it off when I have to get up and move around, get something from the bin, or need to readjust anything. Then it's back on. (FWIW, when driving, I often have to nag my wife when she doesn't put hers on as soon as the car gets rolling. She has a habit of always having something more important to do as she settles in to her seat. Funnily enough, when she drives, she does as she's supposed to, and buckles up before starting the engine).

For Capt Bloggs
If you are going to quote me, please do it properly. I said "Only idiots undo it while seated." I have no problem with somebody going to the loo or stretching their legs. If you are seated and you don't have your belt on, you are an idiot.
While I tend to fall in your camp on this, first timers on an airliner don't have a clue about a lot of stuff that seasoned fliers and industry professionals have imbedded into long term memory. All one can do (and this seems to me to be where a friendly CC can make a difference) is remind folks and encourage that use which for some has become the default habit.