Belgian airspace down? Radar

[badgerh]

Sitting on a plane due to land in Charleroi but we are in Lille. Apparently Belgian radar is down. Anyone know more.?

[tubby linton]

https://www.public.nm.eurocontrol.int/PUBPORTAL/gateway/spec/PORTAL.19.5.1.1.52/detachedViews/headline_news.html?viewId=DISPLAY_ITEM_DV&parameter_set_id=0

[Old Boeing Driver]

Ryanair just took off from Charleroi a little while ago.

Where are you coming from?

[Old Boeing Driver]

The link did not work for me.

What does the article say?

Thanks.

[KiloMikePapa]

This was posted on the Eurocontrol site at 14:44 CET:

"The technical issue at Brussels Centre has been resolved. All regulations relating to this issue have been cancelled."

[KiloMikePapa]

And this was posted at 14:00 CET:

"EBBU (Brussels)

The technical issue at Brussels Centre has been resolved so the zero-rate regulation has now been cancelled.
Several sectors are regulated at reduced rate in order for the centre to recover, but these regulations will be lifted as soon as possible.

NMOC Brussels"

[parkfell]

The days of Area Control operating a procedural service only are clearly a thing of the past, apart from Shanwick of course.

Hardly surprising given the demands on the domestic airspace.

[Una Due Tfc]

The days of Area Control operating a procedural service only are clearly a thing of the past, apart from Shanwick of course.

Hardly surprising given the demands on the domestic airspace.

I don't even think it's taught in most ATC schools anymore

[eagleflyer]

The airspace is not designed for procedural control anymore and I don´t think anybody working a busy center in Central Europe is even remotely familiar with this kind of work. I admire the guys at Brussels working the eastern part of their airspace WITH radar...there´s simply no point trying to do it without!

[badgerh]

Thanks all - seems that we diverted after the problems had been resolved but so be it. Only 2 hours late.

[Hotel Tango]

Thanks all - seems that we diverted after the problems had been resolved but so be it. Only 2 hours late.

After an outage, when the system comes back there is a recovery process to follow which gently brings operations back to normal over a period of time. Because of the backlog of aircraft and initial sector flow restrictions, delays and subsequent diversions are still possible during this phase.

[ATM_ANS Custode]

The airspace is not designed for procedural control anymore and I don´t think anybody working a busy center in Central Europe is even remotely familiar with this kind of work. I admire the guys at Brussels working the eastern part of their airspace WITH radar...there´s simply no point trying to do it without!
... worked procedurally from 1980 till 1999 at LGCC. Used to handle 30-40 flts/hour most of it DEPs and ARRs to Greek islands. A total mad house. With the dawn of the millennium LGCC was radarised at last...
The worst time was spring/summer 1991, during the Desert Storm USAF ops with all these B52s and tanker MACs refuelling F16s out of controlled airspace but crossing airways all the time... such were the good ol' days! :)

[zonoma]

It's a good job we've got EASA and all that money being spent on SESAR in Europe (read this as NextGen if you're in the New World) because all the controllers who know anything about stopping aeroplanes from banging into each other while they've got their eyes shut will be retired soon!
........in around 22 years.........

The likelihood of any ATC system failing for any prolonged amount of time due to radar failure is so remote that teaching procedural just isn't worth the money. Just because a system fails it doesn't mean the radar goes.

[zonoma]

London (my knowledge base) has two radar systems that apparently will not simultaneously fail. When they do, there is simply no way of employing procedural control in any sector I am aware of due to the complex route structure needed to move everyday traffic. The procedures are very simple to clear the skies and I just hope it never happens in earnest in the worst possible manner as I agree, they are borderline realistic. What would have happened if the Brussels tower was located directly above the terminal that was bombed?

22 years is how long London could still have Procedurally trained controllers for, unless they leave pre-pension age.

[kcockayne]

I agree. This sort of airspace & the prevailing traffic levels cannot be controlled procedurally. End of story !
Apart from anything else, how on earth can Controllers remain proficient Procedurally when the traffic loading is too high to allow them to operate Procedurally ? And, how can they "slip into Procedural Mode" when the Radar that, alone, is enabling them to separate & handle that heavy level of traffic suddenly presents them with what is a frightening emergency situation ?

[Lon More]

It's more likely to be a failure in the data processing than of the radar. Fortunately it is possible to train for this, we used to do this on a monthly basis at night although I wouldn't have wanted to try it during peak periods.
Impossible to provide procedural separation anymore unless you impose draconian restrictions