Resurgence of QSY

[Broadlands]

Is it just our airfield or is there growing use of QSY phrase?

I am hearing the term daily from the FISO and now both club pilots and students have started using it too.

My take is that it is not standard RT and it should be discouraged, not withstanding the number of military pilots using the phrase (Hawks,C130s,Dauphins).

If a candidate uses the phrase on test then I assume that is a debrief point.

[TCAS FAN]

Broadlands

CAP413 does not include phraseology "QSY" therefore it is a candidate debrief point.

RT is non-standard so that also should be discouraged, it is RTF.

[Whopity]

QSP is IN (ICAO Doc 8400) but QSY is out. QRT

[BEagle]

Almost 40 years ago now, I was on a visual recovery to Scampton one fine day in one of HMs' finest Vulcans after a short air test. Approach told us about a light aircraft in the vicinity....

Seeing it and approaching the MATZ, I announced "Tally the puddlejumper, QSY Tower".

Unfortunately, some Flying Prevention Branch trappers were around at the time and tried to raise a stink with my boss (Good old 'Sweaters' RIP) about gash RT - who simply replied "Did ATC understand? Yes. Well now say the same thing in correct terminology - in fewer words!". They couldn't - so he told them to Foxtrot Oscar as he had more important things to concern him. I never heard another word.

But yes, 'QSY' isn't correct RT.

[fireflybob]

I always request the Queen Nan How....am I out of date? ;)

[Whopity]

That replaced the Queer Fury Ferret around 1950

[Genghis the Engineer]

Horribly bloody phrase, don't use it myself, ask for clarification if ATC ever use it.

Belongs far pre-Vulcan, and should be left there.

But yes, I hear it regularly, and wish I didn't.

G

[parkfell]

Notwithstanding it has been withdrawn from CAP413, it is clear & concise, and more importantly uses less R/T time & words then its replacement phrase.

I thought it worked well......learnt it when CAP46 (became 413) was current.
Bring it back I say😷😱😜

[Genghis the Engineer]

What's wrong with "Freecall" ?

G

[fireflybob]

I was with a student on a navex last week working a civil ATC unit who called "XX clearing YYY airspace, squawk 7000 and advise going enroute" - student asks me "what does that mean?".

[condor17]

'Fraid when you learn things well , you learn them for life , QNH ,QFE , .... QSY 122.70

rgds condor . Over and out .... still hear that around the Bazaars !

[BEagle]

"....and that's a big Ten-Four, for sure....!"

:hmm:

[parkfell]

"Over & out"
Now that does make me cringe

FREECALL works well when said by ATC etc

The ac stating the intention to change frequency ........QSY 122.7 ?

[BEagle]

"Squawking 7000, changing 122.750, g'day"

(And no 73s nor 88s!)

[ShyTorque]

I don't mind the QSYs at all; it's the "Errrrr..."s, multiple pauses and especially those that request a service then don't listen out and miss ATC calling them that annoy me, especially when it's busy.

[TCAS FAN]

QSY is non compliant with CAP 413 and therefore should be picked up by Instructors/OJTIs on the de-brief - simples!

What's next thread "Call ........Homer" for a QDM?

[fireflybob]

Never mind QSY at a local airfield I frequent where there is Air/Ground they use first names half the time (e.g. "John, anyone in the circuit") - the lack of R/T discipline appals me at times.

[chevvron]

Never mind QSY at a local airfield I frequent where there is Air/Ground they use first names half the time (e.g. "John, anyone in the circuit") - the lack of R/T discipline appals me at times.
I'm an A/G Examiner; tell me where that is and I'll report them to the CAA.
I'm reminded of a friend's experience when calling H******n Radio may years ago. After several calls with no reply using his callsign (Turbo prop 10 as an example) and hearing the radio operator answering other aircraft, eventually he got 'Turbo Prop 10? What sort of f***ing stupid callsign is that; why can't you use your registration like everyone else?'

[9287Excellent]

Since becoming an instructor myself, I'm hearing more and more of "QSY" over the radio, the first few times I heard it I didn't really understand what it meant but after a little research and hearing it said a few times with a frequency, I got the general idea. I was always taught to report "changing frequency to XXX on XXX" so thats also what my students are taught.

[6f1]

Nothing wrong with QSY,however we have a lot of people in the industry making things more difficult than they really are.

[Danny42C]

If CAP413 (whatever that is) doesn't include QSY, then it should. It has been in use from time immemorial to mean "Change to" or "Changing to" 117.9 (or whatever).

D.

[ALEXA]

Hi

PPL holder here - owning up to QSY use, but in one circumstance only.

"G-XX leaving the frequency, will QSY en route" - to indicate that I am going non-radio for a while.

If there's a snappier but equally informative way of saying this, I'll happily adopt it.

[BossEyed]

ALEXA, If I heard that call I certainly wouldn't expect to hear you back on frequency "in a while".

[ALEXA]

Apologies for not being clear!

I didn't mean to imply that I would be returning to the frequency that I was just leaving, but that I was flying into an area where there was no reason for me to be in contact with any particular unit, so I would go non-radio until I was.

[Whopity]

There is a correct way: "changing to" it takes no longer.
The "Q" code was designed as a question and response code to make operations in morse more effcient, it was never designed for telephony use and was never recommended phraseology. After years of missuse, it was outlawed about 20 years ago.
CAP413 (whatever that is)The UK Radiotelephony Manual, but also the basis of ICAO Doc 9432 Manual of Radiotelephony

[ALEXA]

LFAJ

So what should I say please?

[ALEXA]

Thank you. That's what I expected and it's what I have said to ATSUs in the past.

But in my (albeit modest) experience, if it a LARS unit that I am leaving, I then get:

"G-XX, squwark [sp?] 7000, freecall xyz on 123.45"

Since I'm only going to do one of those things, do I respond to say that I won't be doing the second one and if so how please?

[Whopity]

"G-XX, squwark [sp?] 7000, freecall xyz on 123.45"

G-XX squark 7000 Monitoring 123.45 (or whatever else you intend to listen to.)

[fireflybob]

ALEXA,

In Class G airspace you decide who you are going to talk to on the radio.

I hear people on LARS saying "Request frequency change to XXX" whereas I say (and teach) squawking 7000 and changing to XXX or just "changing enroute" which I know isn't standard from a CAP413 point of view but is commonly used by the military.

[ALEXA]

Thanks all for the clarification.

[Broadlands]

My initial observation was in response to the increasing use of a phrase that is not in CAP413 and is being adopted by students.

I follow Whopity's lead on this and try to eradicate it.

[Whopity]

Another WRONG Call

"Practice FANSTOP"

Frequently heard and Incorrect!

[Reverserbucket]

Only yesterday I noticed guidance issued by LVNL (Dutch ANSP) concerning Ground Frequency changes effective tomorrow stating:

"After vacating the landing runway pilots shall contact Schiphol Ground without ATC instructions (auto-QSY) immediately on the following frequencies..."

No mention of QSY in the AIP of course, although I suspect it's use will only cease when pilots and air traffickers aware of it no longer practice.

Personally, I always confirm the runway QFU lining up and refer to it as such...probably always will.



Whopity

Yes, heard that many times in the past myself - presumably a practice-practice EFATO.

[sapperkenno]

Best thing would be to encourage better training and understanding of what types of services people are under, and where they apply... Most people flying puddle jumpers assume that whenever they are talking to a unit, it's all proper and they have to request everything and treat it like some sort of privilege.

So, I locally hear (Class G with a LARS) people requesting climb/descent, asking for zone transit (of an ATZ - that people seemingly don't understand the dimensions of) and replying "Contact xxx.xx" when given freecall...

If people understood the differences between operating in/out of CAS, and what is implied with contact vs freecall, we might be onto something.


Also, is there an official requirement to say you are leaving frequency?! e.g. when leaving an A/G airfield. I know most give it the "departing the circuit to the xxxx, changing to xxx.xx, (thanks for the visit etc :yuk:)" but is there any real need? Don't want to open a can of worms, but never done that in the States when leaving a towered (Class D) airport... you just depart, get given a turn on course (either when airborne or with takeoff clearance) and that's that. Leave the ATZ then do what you want and don't say a word. None of this "departing the circuit to the south, climbing through xxxx', changing to blah blah". I would agree it might be handy to let people know where you are for SA, but is there some silly old UK rule along the lines of booking out that you have to say if you're leaving the frequency in case you have a problem?!

[Whopity]

is there an official requirement to say you are leaving frequency?The ATSU has a responsibility for your safety, if you simply disappear, then they have to be sure you have not crashed and will need to check if you have arrived at your destination i,e. they have a responsibility for overdue action if you have not notified your departure from their frequency.