DSB investigation into ATC safety at Schiphol

[CaptainSandL]

Just seen this on ASN
The Dutch Safety Board has started a thematic investigation into air traffic safety at and around Amsterdam-Schiphol Airport.
Over the past few years, the Dutch Safety Board has investigated multiple incidents at Amsterdam-Schiphol Airport. With a view to further improving safety at the airport, the Board decided to investigate whether these incidents may be due to multiple root problems, such as the design, location and use of the airport.

I have been operating into AMS for decades and always found it to be one of the better airports, given its size.

I guess there is no harm in getting a report done to see if there are any possible further improvements but I don't see their ATC having any major underlying problems.

[Magplug]

...Apart from the fact they like to do all their ATC vectoring in the last 2000' of the atmosphere (poor locals), and every other instruction on the ground includes the word 'expedite'.

[Arewerunning]

Are you not able to plan for a continuos descent?

[ATC Watcher]

It looks like it is winter break for the DSB and they are looking for something to do. 6 runway incidents since 2009 , less that 1 per year , none of them really major, would normally not start such a campaign let alone a Press release. Or there is something else behind.

Been last year looking at incidents in the airspace of an Asian capital ; 300 incidents a year. roughly one a day. and no Press release, and no mention on ASN either. All is relative.

[Una Due Tfc]

It looks like it is winter break for the DSB and they are looking for something to do. 6 runway incidents since 2009 , less that 1 per year , none of them really major, would normally not start such a campaign let alone a Press release. Or there is something else behind.

Been last year looking at incidents in the airspace of an Asian capital ; 300 incidents a year. roughly one a day. and no Press release, and no mention on ASN either. All is relative.

Les than one runway incident a year in an airport with 5 runways moving that much traffic is miniscule by industry standards if true.

[OldLurker]

www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2211/investigation-into-air-traffic-safety-at-amsterdam-airport-schiphol/onderzoek/1677/investigation-into-air-traffic-safety-at-amsterdam-airport-schiphol (http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2211/investigation-into-air-traffic-safety-at-amsterdam-airport-schiphol/onderzoek/1677/investigation-into-air-traffic-safety-at-amsterdam-airport-schiphol)

"The events and incidents investigated previously by the Board included aircraft taking off from a runway not cleared for use, runway incursions (i.e. vehicles crossing or driving on a runway in use for air traffic) and technical problems."

But there may indeed be more behind this, such as the operational style mentioned by Magplug, which could surely stand some improvement. No doubt some would say there's no danger at all of that operational style resulting in an airborne incident over such a heavily populated area, but a responsible European safety board is surely sensible to do a review, even if an irresponsible Asian one doesn't.

[main_dog]

Actually I too have always found EHAM ATC to be, well, not great... very tight vectoring risking unstabilised approaches, and unpredictable runway allocations. On the ground, taxy instructions are too brief/simplistic (yes I know they have standard routings) and multiple departure runway changes, all introducing error opportunities.

Just my two cents, and to be fair there is much worse ATC out there.

[Willit Run]

Dutch ATC are one of the best in the world. I love working with those folks!

[golfyankeesierra]

I don't read it as it is an investigation into ATC but more into layout, design and procedures, like:
http://avherald.com/h?article=494a30e8&opt=0
Wasn't the operational style of ATC not already mentioned in the Turkish airlines report? Might as well be included in this investigation..

[dontdoit]

Haven't these people ever been to Madrid where apparently you can never have too many SIDS, or too many taxiways, or too few ground signs :ugh:

[His dudeness]

Dutch ATC are one of the best in the world. I love working with those folks!

Plus 1. And most of the times the dudes still have time for a joke. Best ATC in Europe IMHO.

[oceancrosser]

I don't read it as it is an investigation into ATC but more into layout, design and procedures, like:
Incident: KLM Cityhopper E190 at Amsterdam on Feb 28th 2016, runway incursion by tow truck, balked landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=494a30e8&opt=0)
Wasn't the operational style of ATC not already mentioned in the Turkish airlines report? Might as well be included in this investigation..

I am with you on this one, I have always found taxi procedures at this relatively complex airport lacking and unclear. Fine if you are one of the hometown lot or there daily, but for us who come there 5-10 times pr year, less so. They could improve their guidance and procedures. Crossing 18C/36C or passing south of it is sometimes unclear. Jepp charts really no good help for lack of references (which would come from the Dutch).

As for Schiphol arrival procedures, they usually want you fairly fast until close to final. Works fine for me.

[Ian W]

I am with you on this one, I have always found taxi procedures at this relatively complex airport lacking and unclear. Fine if you are one of the hometown lot or there daily, but for us who come there 5-10 times pr year, less so. They could improve their guidance and procedures. Crossing 18C/36C or passing south of it is sometimes unclear. Jepp charts really no good help for lack of references (which would come from the Dutch).

As for Schiphol arrival procedures, they usually want you fairly fast until close to final. Works fine for me.

Sounds a lot like the comments there were on the thread about SFO ATC after the cartwheeled 777.

The 'hometown lot' have no problems a newbie can have occasional difficulties. This all comes under the heading of 'ontology' the expectation that the person you are talking to will understand in these cases particular clipped phrases and airport traffic organization.