Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

DSB investigation into ATC safety at Schiphol

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

DSB investigation into ATC safety at Schiphol

Old 4th Mar 2016, 09:25
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 496
Received 12 Likes on 2 Posts
DSB investigation into ATC safety at Schiphol

Just seen this on ASN
The Dutch Safety Board has started a thematic investigation into air traffic safety at and around Amsterdam-Schiphol Airport.
Over the past few years, the Dutch Safety Board has investigated multiple incidents at Amsterdam-Schiphol Airport. With a view to further improving safety at the airport, the Board decided to investigate whether these incidents may be due to multiple root problems, such as the design, location and use of the airport.
I have been operating into AMS for decades and always found it to be one of the better airports, given its size.

I guess there is no harm in getting a report done to see if there are any possible further improvements but I don't see their ATC having any major underlying problems.
CaptainSandL is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 09:28
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 559
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
...Apart from the fact they like to do all their ATC vectoring in the last 2000' of the atmosphere (poor locals), and every other instruction on the ground includes the word 'expedite'.
Magplug is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 10:54
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Reup
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Are you not able to plan for a continuos descent?
Arewerunning is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 12:25
  #4 (permalink)  
Pegase Driver
 
Join Date: May 1997
Location: Europe
Age: 74
Posts: 3,739
Received 21 Likes on 12 Posts
It looks like it is winter break for the DSB and they are looking for something to do. 6 runway incidents since 2009 , less that 1 per year , none of them really major, would normally not start such a campaign let alone a Press release. Or there is something else behind.

Been last year looking at incidents in the airspace of an Asian capital ; 300 incidents a year. roughly one a day. and no Press release, and no mention on ASN either. All is relative.
ATC Watcher is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 12:35
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Róisín Dubh
Posts: 1,389
Received 11 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher
It looks like it is winter break for the DSB and they are looking for something to do. 6 runway incidents since 2009 , less that 1 per year , none of them really major, would normally not start such a campaign let alone a Press release. Or there is something else behind.

Been last year looking at incidents in the airspace of an Asian capital ; 300 incidents a year. roughly one a day. and no Press release, and no mention on ASN either. All is relative.
Les than one runway incident a year in an airport with 5 runways moving that much traffic is miniscule by industry standards if true.
Una Due Tfc is online now  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 12:57
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: England
Posts: 411
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2211/investigation-into-air-traffic-safety-at-amsterdam-airport-schiphol/onderzoek/1677/investigation-into-air-traffic-safety-at-amsterdam-airport-schiphol

"The events and incidents investigated previously by the Board included aircraft taking off from a runway not cleared for use, runway incursions (i.e. vehicles crossing or driving on a runway in use for air traffic) and technical problems."

But there may indeed be more behind this, such as the operational style mentioned by Magplug, which could surely stand some improvement. No doubt some would say there's no danger at all of that operational style resulting in an airborne incident over such a heavily populated area, but a responsible European safety board is surely sensible to do a review, even if an irresponsible Asian one doesn't.

Last edited by OldLurker; 4th Mar 2016 at 13:12. Reason: Typo
OldLurker is offline  
Old 4th Mar 2016, 13:27
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Krug departure, Merlot transition
Posts: 663
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Actually I too have always found EHAM ATC to be, well, not great... very tight vectoring risking unstabilised approaches, and unpredictable runway allocations. On the ground, taxy instructions are too brief/simplistic (yes I know they have standard routings) and multiple departure runway changes, all introducing error opportunities.

Just my two cents, and to be fair there is much worse ATC out there.
main_dog is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2016, 05:10
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: In da north country
Age: 63
Posts: 452
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Dutch ATC are one of the best in the world. I love working with those folks!
Willit Run is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2016, 13:17
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't read it as it is an investigation into ATC but more into layout, design and procedures, like:
http://avherald.com/h?article=494a30e8&opt=0
Wasn't the operational style of ATC not already mentioned in the Turkish airlines report? Might as well be included in this investigation..

Last edited by golfyankeesierra; 5th Mar 2016 at 18:42. Reason: corrected link
golfyankeesierra is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2016, 14:48
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: _
Posts: 350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Haven't these people ever been to Madrid where apparently you can never have too many SIDS, or too many taxiways, or too few ground signs
dontdoit is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2016, 21:04
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 58
Posts: 2,440
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Dutch ATC are one of the best in the world. I love working with those folks!
Plus 1. And most of the times the dudes still have time for a joke. Best ATC in Europe IMHO.
His dudeness is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2016, 21:18
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: away from home
Posts: 904
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by golfyankeesierra
I don't read it as it is an investigation into ATC but more into layout, design and procedures, like:
Incident: KLM Cityhopper E190 at Amsterdam on Feb 28th 2016, runway incursion by tow truck, balked landing
Wasn't the operational style of ATC not already mentioned in the Turkish airlines report? Might as well be included in this investigation..
I am with you on this one, I have always found taxi procedures at this relatively complex airport lacking and unclear. Fine if you are one of the hometown lot or there daily, but for us who come there 5-10 times pr year, less so. They could improve their guidance and procedures. Crossing 18C/36C or passing south of it is sometimes unclear. Jepp charts really no good help for lack of references (which would come from the Dutch).

As for Schiphol arrival procedures, they usually want you fairly fast until close to final. Works fine for me.
oceancrosser is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2016, 10:44
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida and wherever my laptop is
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by oceancrosser
I am with you on this one, I have always found taxi procedures at this relatively complex airport lacking and unclear. Fine if you are one of the hometown lot or there daily, but for us who come there 5-10 times pr year, less so. They could improve their guidance and procedures. Crossing 18C/36C or passing south of it is sometimes unclear. Jepp charts really no good help for lack of references (which would come from the Dutch).

As for Schiphol arrival procedures, they usually want you fairly fast until close to final. Works fine for me.
Sounds a lot like the comments there were on the thread about SFO ATC after the cartwheeled 777.

The 'hometown lot' have no problems a newbie can have occasional difficulties. This all comes under the heading of 'ontology' the expectation that the person you are talking to will understand in these cases particular clipped phrases and airport traffic organization.
Ian W is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.