US Regional Headhunting [Archive]

Zaphod Beblebrox

2nd Mar 2016, 12:34

Zonda,

Is this type of program regarded favorably by rank and file ?

Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away... This was not looked upon kindly. Pilot management wanted to select the best candidates wherever they could find them. They didn't necessarily want a company training school, even if it was an airline, to be the source of pilot talent. When the US Airline industry was in a tailspin in the early 2000's, Pilot labor union's granted "scope" concessions during bad times. These scope concessions allowed the regional airlines to fly jets.

Now that the industry is profitable there is nothing left to trade and the major pilot union/s are not willing to make any more concessions on scope or other contractual areas. Therefore the company's are free to try to make arrangements to deal with the pilot shortage in a manner they see fit.

Unions and pilot management are really now relegated to the back seat in airline hiring. At my company, one of the big three, and at the others, or so I hear, hiring is primarily done by Human Resources,(HR). Pilot management doesn't see a candidate until he has been blessed by HR. When I was hired, way back when, the pilot selection board was mostly independent of HR and they made the selection and then sent the candidate to HR for review. If HR found disqualifying issues, convictions, falsified records, etc, the could reject the candidate. Now it is the other way around and I think that many good pilot candidates don't get through the interview process because of some issue unrelated to piloting.

If your company is hiring future captains you are looking for leaders and those who can make decisions. You want someone who will embrace and adhere to the important elements of CRM. You also want a team player who gets along well with other work groups. However you want a captain who will act as the Pilot In Command and will "step on toes" if absolutely necessary. I think HR wants someone who will never raise his voice and sit around the campfire and sing "kumbaya (https://www.google.com/search?q=kumbaya&start=0&spell=1&biw=853&bih=433)" and drink the company cool-aide in massive quantities.

Pilots no longer hire pilots at the US major carriers. At least not at my company.

That is just my opinion. Here endith the ranting.

striker26

2nd Mar 2016, 12:37

Does anyone know if any of these airlines would sponsor an individual. I am assuming you need the right to work and live in the US with a green card?

Zaphod Beblebrox

2nd Mar 2016, 13:00

Does anyone know if any of these airlines would sponsor an individual. I am assuming you need the right to work and live in the US with a green card?

They are not doing it now but my guess, considering the recent Republic Chapter 11 filing, that they might attempt to end run the process by attempting to gain H1B visas for pilot candidates. The US H1B visa is a non-immigrant visa that allows US companies to employ foreign workers in specialty occupations that require theoretical or technical expertise in specialized fields such as in architecture, engineering, mathematics, science, and medicine. [https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=what+is+an+hb1+visa]

I have no knowledge that this is happening or about to happen. However HIB visa's are designed to allow company's to hire candidates that have special skills that are not available in the US. I don't know anything about the details of that type of visa.

This might be one way that the US Pilot profession is opened up to the world. It has not happened yet.

bafanguy

2nd Mar 2016, 13:23

ZB,

Speaking of Republic, visas and pilot supply, they tried to get Brazilians in here when they were hurting for pilots...didn't work. Good entertainment value to it though. This from a WSJ article:

"Republic Airways CEO Says Labor Accord Has Halved Pilot Losses"

"Mr. Bedford called the increased training requirement the “most significant headwind” to bringing in new pilots. The airline last year sought to take advantage of a slump in Brazilian air traffic to bring in foreign pilots, but was unable to get visas for them to fly in the U.S., he said."

TheBiggerD

2nd Mar 2016, 17:58

bafanguy

5th Mar 2016, 22:08

TheBiggerD,

I suppose the Imperial Federal Government could throw enough word salad at this situation to ease up the functional requirements while claiming they actually didn't compromise voter "safety".

But I don't see any large scale intake of expats here in the USA. We'll have to see lower level operators disappearing by the score before there's an adjustment to current visa criteria.

bafanguy

5th Apr 2016, 13:51

FYI: ALPA addresses pilot availability:

ALPA: Airline Pilots In Strong Supply For Right Career Opportunity | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=a24cbf31-2c37-4874-a96c-c74ffb48b721)

bafanguy

14th Apr 2016, 19:52

Interesting twist from Air Wisconsin. Interview below ATP mins, offer a waiting job when the pilot gets close to ATP mins. Set the hook and wait. If a person is a CFI or something similar, and can get that additional 600 hours in about a year +/-, this might be a good deal ? Sign of the times. Air Wisconsin has been around a very long time, IIRC:

"Thank you for your email. I want to confirm we will hire at 850 total time by offering you a contingent offer if you are selected during the interview process. What it means is once you finish your hours, you will have a job waiting for you. Although Air Wisconsin may not be able to help obtain all the hours someone may need, Air Wisconsin will help in reaching your total time by providing 36 hours of SIM time toward your total time (or 46 hours if you are taking our CTP course). Hope this helps, if you have any questions, please let me know.

Thanks!

Recruiting Coordinator
Air Wisconsin Airlines Corporation"

Pilots (http://www.airwis.com/pilots.html)

zondaracer

14th Apr 2016, 23:21

Most regionals will hire you below mins. Skywest asks you to be within 3 months of being able to start class.

Envoy has a cadet program where they pay your CFI salary under an agreement that you will work for Envoy once you reach 1500. A year and a half ago, Piedmont was paying for up to 300 hours of flight time in exchange for a commitment, so if you had 1200 hours, they would pay for you to rent a Cessna/Piper for 300 hours, and you would owe them 1 year for every 100 hours that they paid.

Rumor is that Air Wisconsin just cancelled their latest class because they only had one student show up.

bafanguy

15th Apr 2016, 09:42

Zonda,

Now that you mention it, I remember that PDT deal. I thought it was just an internal offer for current employees who wanted to make the jump to a cockpit position. Don't bet the grocery money on what I remember but I think that's what it was.

I hope Air Wisconsin didn't leave that one guy hanging when they cancelled the class. He probably cut bait (or took overt steps to) from his previous job to go there.

Hey !! What happened to all the Aussies who were coming up here ? I'm surprised no regional has shaken that bush to see what falls out. My secret agent Down There sees no evidence of outreach.

This is all gettin' "funner" & "funner" to watch... :-))

zondaracer

15th Apr 2016, 13:33

I work at the company that was supposedly going to bring Australians... The plan never materialized.

bafanguy

18th Apr 2016, 20:36

Zonda,

"The plan never materialized."

I guess not. I thought we were onto something with that rumor. ;-)

bafanguy

2nd May 2016, 12:30

One example why regionals are important to legacies:

"Now 'we are focused on brand perfect days' which would include the 2,400 of Delta’s 5,500 daily departures [~44%] that are operated as Delta Connection flights by six regional partners including Endeavor Air, which Delta owns."

Yet:

"Regional airlines also suffer financial problems, largely as a result of being squeezed because the three global carriers bid out regional flying to the lowest bidder."

Delta, Not Content, Wants To Fix The Unfixable: Regional Operations And Long Security Lines (http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2016/05/02/delta-not-content-wants-to-fix-industry-problems-regional-operations-and-long-security-lines/?utm_campaign=yahootix&partner=yahootix#10deaace3da2)

bafanguy

9th May 2016, 15:52

Yet more headhunting:

Seeking 500 pilots a year, PSA Airlines sweetens the pot - Dayton Business Journal (http://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/news/2016/05/09/seeking-500-pilots-a-year-psa-airlines-sweetens.html?ana=yahoo)

I wonder how many of these needed slots their cadet program will help fill:

http://www.psaairlines.com/careers/cadet-program/

bafanguy

11th May 2016, 11:57

A little more on US regional, PSA, just as an example of what's happening here. Pilot shortage ? Mmm, I'm still a skeptic:

"Finding pilots remains a challenge, even with the flow-through. The pilot shortage was among the most common topics of conversation at the convention. 'Everybody's feeling it,' said Flannery, who noted that with many of today's pilots approaching mandatory retirement at age 65, 'we're at the beginning of the pilot shortage -- it's a tough one to solve, a structural issue.' "

American's PSA Airlines Figures Out How to Grow in a Brutal Business - TheStreet (http://www.thestreet.com/story/13566439/1/american-s-psa-airlines-figures-out-how-to-grow-in-a-brutal-business.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO)

[Zonda, yes, I've seen ASA LOA #16 ;-) ]

Kenny

13th May 2016, 12:34

Many airlines require US Citizenship. The above will lead to a Green Card, assuming you have applied. Then need 3 years married and 18 months physically in the US as Green Card holder before you can apply for Citizenship - application processing can take up to one year.

Respectfully, that's incorrect on both accounts. No airline that I'm aware of can actually require you to be a US citizen as a pre-requisite to employment. It's illegal. I'm pretty sure they can require you to be a citizen to do the CRAF stuff, though

Also, I was married for 2 years before I got my permanent GC and could apply for citizenship after 5 years of being a permanent resident. This may have changed, though.

bafanguy

13th May 2016, 13:27

A couple of US operators list a "valid U.S. passport" as a requirement to work there vs the "legal ability to work..." route. Not sure why that'd be. Kalitta Charters comes to mind...can't remember the other ones:

https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Pilot-Job-Posting-Pilot-Opening-Pilot-Job/10048/USA/First%20Officer/Falcon%2020/Kalitta%20Charters

Flat out U.S. citizenship is required for those Department of Defense contract pilot positions but they're a different sorta gig.

zondaracer

13th May 2016, 20:22

Kenny, sorry you had to wait five years to get the citizenship. Now it's 3 years for spouses of US citizens. It's still five years for other green card holders.

zondaracer

13th May 2016, 20:23

Great Lakes Soon Will Send Pilots To Frontier Airlines | AWIN_Commercial content from Aviation Week (http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/great-lakes-soon-will-send-pilots-frontier-airlines)

bafanguy

13th May 2016, 20:33

Z,

Is Great Lakes having any trouble getting applicants ? This might help recruiting a bit.

Any further details in the article since we can't read it all from the link ?

Great Lakes seems to be a survivor if nothing else.

zondaracer

13th May 2016, 23:02

Yes, Great Lakes has a huge problem with retention. They have no shortage of SIC applicants since now they have a part 135 certificate and can hire candidates with 250 hours. But they have a shortage of captains. They also have a 121 certificate and staffing the 121 side is their priority.

You call Great Lakes a survivor, pilots know them as the cockroaches of the regional world.

atpcliff

14th May 2016, 03:41

FYI: ALPA addresses pilot availability:

ALPA: Airline Pilots In Strong Supply For Right Career Opportunity | Aero-News Network

ALPA is wrong. There is NOT a strong supply of pilots. For example, a pilot for either UPS or FedEx recently posted of info from a meeting with their Chief Pilot. They were told within about two years, their applicant pool will have shrunk so far, they will not be able to recruit enough pilots for their operation.

A Squared

14th May 2016, 05:53

ALPA is wrong. There is NOT a strong supply of pilots. For example, a pilot for either UPS or FedEx recently posted of info from a meeting with their Chief Pilot. They were told within about two years, their applicant pool will have shrunk so far, they will not be able to recruit enough pilots for their operation.

Sorry, not buying the idea that either UPS of FED-EX will be unable to fill pilot positions in 2 years.

Understand, I am not saying that you didn't see someone claiming to be a pilot for one of those airlines, post on a forum some place the claim that his chief pilot told him that was true. You may very well have. That don't make it true. The airlines with the best Pay, Benefits and working conditions are for the most part *still* inundated with applicants to the point that they are *still* using some pretty questionable criteria to weed out otherwise well qualified applicants. The requirement for a college degree for example. Mind you, I say this as someone who holds a bachelors degree, so the is not a case of personal resentment. But a college degree (particularly one in a non-related, non technical discipline) has virtually nothing to do with the ability to fly an airplane. There are plenty of very skilled pilots who don't have a college degree. I know some. I suspect that you fly with a number of them. The major airline interviewing and recruiting process contains a lot of elements of a meaningless beauty contest. There are business which exist solely to advise hopeful interviewees on such vital items as the correct color and pattern of suit to wear, together with the correct colour tie.

Sorry, if you're interviewing at an airline where the difference between wearing a blue pin striped suit vs a black solid suit can make a difference in whether you get hired, you're in a beauty contest. And that airline is running this beauty contest precisely because they have such an abundance of applicants with good qualifications that they can afford to reject them on the basis of silly nonsense.

bafanguy

14th May 2016, 11:34

"You call Great Lakes a survivor, pilots know them as the cockroaches of the regional world. "

Zondaracer,

Yes, I've heard that too, yet they continue to survive. They can probably serve as the barometer of the regional airline biz: if GLA can do it, so can all the rest !! :-)))

AxA,

I agree with your assessment of the "beauty contest" at the legacy level (I also have a 4-year degree...BFD). If the industry intends to soldier on, I hope the regionals won't be as misled by that degree stuff. Someday, they might need to tap all available segments of the willing-and-able supply...and regional experience is a proper place for people to get experience.

bafanguy

21st May 2016, 19:46

Republic Airways casts a bit wider net for pilots:

Republic Airways, The Ohio State University Sign Career Pipeline Interview Agreement | Business Wire (http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20160518006313/en/Republic-Airways-Ohio-State-University-Sign-Career)

bafanguy

3rd Jun 2016, 17:10

Article is dated today and it's the first mention I've seen of the program. It can't hurt Silver or Great Lakes:

"…designed to remove many of the career uncertainties that pilots face as they begin their airline careers by guaranteeing pilots entering the Career Pilot Program a first officer position with Frontier upon completion of defined experience requirements.

Frontier plans to launch the Frontier Career Pilot Program this month."

https://worldairlinenews.com/2016/06/03/frontier-launches-career-pilot-program-with-great-lakes-airlines-and-silver-airways/

No mention yet of this program on Frontier or Silver websites and only this from Great Lakes:

https://flygreatlakescareers.silkroad.com/greatext/Pilot/Career-Path-Programs.html

bafanguy

13th Jun 2016, 18:36

A bit of news from the regional headhunting front @ AA's wholly-owned:

"Piedmont Airlines, a wholly owned subsidiary of the American Airlines Group Inc. (AAL), will pay a $15,000 signing bonus to all new hire pilots, effective immediately. Piedmont employees will also collect $5,000 for every pilot they refer to the airlines."

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/piedmont-airlines-announces-15-000-160000443.html

"Envoy Air Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of American Airlines Group (AAL), now offers new hire pilots a $15,000 bonus when they join the company."

What ? No referral payment ? :-))

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/envoy-offers-hire-pilots-15-160000958.html

PSA also updating its program:

"In addition to today’s expanded pilot bonus program, PSA will also be enhancing the value of its employee referral program for pilots by increasing the payout from $1,000 to $5,000…"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/psa-airlines-announces-15-000-160000047.html

bafanguy

14th Jun 2016, 13:09

Cape Air enlisting help of airport authority in finding pilots:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2016/06/14/cape-air-interviewing-pilots-in-pittsburgh.html?ana=yahoo

Tinstaafl

15th Jun 2016, 02:37

$15,000 signing bonus? Big deal. What about income the next year? And the year after that? Never mind the awful commuting lifestyle. Moving to a base isn't usually an option. Spouses & children have careers & lives too, not to mention that airlines have been prone to close & change crew bases with unpleasant frequency. Time move the family - again.

bafanguy

15th Jun 2016, 09:21

Tinstaafl,

You're correct...regionals aren't the best job in the biz. For most people, they're a steppingstone. But I've just tried to show the efforts regionals are making to attract new blood.

Tinstaafl

15th Jun 2016, 21:36

I'm not denigrating your efforts to provide info. Far from it. It's the regionals that deserve the whipping.

bafanguy

15th Jun 2016, 21:54

"It's the regionals that deserve the whipping."

Tinstaafl,

And it's gettin' pretty entertaining. :-))

So I thought our non-US compatriots might also be entertained by the saga.

ncjulo

16th Jun 2016, 10:27

zondaracer

16th Jun 2016, 14:49

Hello, so to sum it up, is it possible for a european pilot with JAA/EASA licences to apply for one of those american companies or do we need to get a visa or hold the citizenship (via the green card) before applying?

Thanks

A french buddy whose dream is to fly in the US!!
Green card or citizenship will be required, or some other form of work authorization. An airline will not be able to sponsor a visa for a European citizen.

bafanguy

16th Jun 2016, 19:37

And FAA licenses...

bafanguy

21st Jul 2016, 09:22

Mesa Airlines' latest effort to get people into the pipeline:

“Our program will enable you to earn your flight instructor ratings (CFI, CFII, & MEI) at no cost to you.”

First Officer Cadet Phoenix, Arizona-PHX-Latest Pilot Jobs-Latest Pilot Jobs (http://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/1399.html)

zondaracer

21st Jul 2016, 21:18

Trans States has a similar program:
Epic Pilot Sponsorship - Trans States Airlines - Epic Flight Academy (http://epicflightacademy.com/tsa/)

SkyWest has tuition reimbursement now for ATP students.
https://atpflightschool.com/airlines/skywest_alliance.html

The other day, I talked to a guy with a commercial pilot certificate and 300 hours. He told me he already has a job offer at Republic, contingent on getting 1500 hours total time.

bafanguy

21st Jul 2016, 23:00

Zonda,

They're all just marshalling resources ! :-)))

Tinstaafl

22nd Jul 2016, 01:04

They need to marshal sufficient resources to make it affordable to work for them.

sulphric acid

22nd Jul 2016, 11:49

Hey guys, can a foreigner who completed his or her flight training and hold a bachelor's degree apply the H1B visa through an airline? Do they sponsor them or help in applying the visa? I'm planning to have my bachelor's degree online and have my flight training in the US. Thanks everyone!;);)

bafanguy

22nd Jul 2016, 12:22

Sulphric,

I've not seen any airline admit to sponsoring or "helping" a foreign national with a visa. If any of them are doing that, it's somewhat of a secret. Apparently, they just don't need to do that yet (ill fated Republic attempt noted and exempted). Maybe someone else has some documented evidence to the contrary ?

zondaracer

22nd Jul 2016, 14:06

Since a university degree is not required to be an airline pilot, and the H1B visa is issued to critical career fields that require a university degree, airline pilot is not eligible for the H1B visa.

striker26

22nd Jul 2016, 14:35

Giving a few thousand for a student to reimburse his/her tuition or get a CFI rating is just the beginning. Unless the FAA/DOT raise pilot salaries and benefits, there will never be a free flowing pilot supply, and the regional job will be as good as a bus driver (and i dont mean Airbus!). Couple that with the thousands of flight schools to choose from and you a get a very lean trainee number per flight school, all of which want to stay in business and partner with an airline which is impossible.

The solution would be having a cadet program in which students from 0 to ATPL obtain a college degree at their cost, but obtain their licenses from an accredited flight school, at the airlines cost (might as well throw in government subsidy). This can be done maybe during summer semester or like a co-op program while in school, - partnered with a US regional airline after graduation. The student would then agree to fly with the regional for X amount of years, failing to do so they would pay on a pro rated basis, the cost of the flight training incurred.

Signing bonuses, rebate and training (i.e. CFI) are added bonuses to help the applicant decide over a competitor. Seems the airlines are marketing the wrong idea, no student cares which CRJ/ERJ they fly, especially when you got 45k+ uni debt + another 45-60k flight training.....

I really hope they create a universal system, this would help the majors as well in planning for the future, knowing when each pilot would be eligible to move from the regional. If lets say the cadet after graduation must stay a minimum 4 years as FO, they can either upgrade to Capt. or move to the major. The salaries should be competitive throughout.

Those students/mature adults who choose not to get a degree or want a career change, or don't meet the requirements for the cadet program... can do it the old fashioned way...with all the cadets going on to fly the regionals, there would still be your average B1900 type jobs available.

zondaracer

22nd Jul 2016, 14:41

The majors have no shortage of applicants. If the regionals all disappeared or shrunk and mainline took back the flying, that would be perfectly fine with me.

sulphric acid

22nd Jul 2016, 14:48

Zondaracer,

Do you have any idea what type of visa should I try to apply to fly for US regional airlines upon graduation? Thanks anyway.

ra4000

22nd Jul 2016, 15:35

Sulphric
I don't think the airlines or regionals are familiar with all types
Of visas.
I think what they look is your social security card.
If on top said "not valid for employment " you are done

bafanguy

22nd Jul 2016, 15:52

" Unless the FAA/DOT raise pilot salaries and benefits, there will never be a free flowing pilot supply..."

striker26,

The government does NOT control pilot salaries & benefits...nor should they.

As for a government or quasi-governmental national pilot "academy", I have a friend working with his congressman on the beginnings of just such a program, a la the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy. The initial phase deals with accommodating the fresh-CPL-to-1500 hr-Part 121 issue (without dealing yet with how the CPL was obtained...if you're not familiar with AABI, Google and read about one way it's currently done) with a national academy being the eventual goal. He's got a remarkably clever idea.

Unfortunately, involving government in a private sector issue pretty much dooms it but the idea has gotten at least a small notice despite congressional attention deficit disorder. If the idea is taken up, in exchange for his hard work and insightful thoughts, the politicos will steal my friend's idea and kick him promptly to the curb of history.

The US has pilots falling out of its ears...just not an issue. The lower links of the food chain are merely under temporary stress.

zondaracer

22nd Jul 2016, 22:22

@sulphuric acid:

An airline will not sponsor you for a visa, nor can you sponsor yourself.

You will either have to marry a US Citizen, apply for a green card through the diversity lottery, or enter the US under a refugee status. If you are a celebrity or professional athlete, you may be able to get a visa as well, and there are a couple of other visas but generally speaking, you won't get a work visa to be an airline pilot in the US.

atpcliff

30th Jul 2016, 00:49

HR departments at FedEx, SWA, UAL and DAL are all worried about the lack of new recruits.

bafanguy

30th Jul 2016, 07:25

"HR departments at FedEx, SWA, UAL and DAL are all worried about the lack of new recruits. "

atpcliff,

Delta isn't...I can assure you of that...bet the rent money. The others I can't be sure of.

A Squared

1st Aug 2016, 06:40

My significant other is a pilot, holds a Commercial pilot's certificate with multi engine and instrument ratings, and an instructor certificate. She is not employed as a pilot nor seeking to be. However recently, she has received mailings from two US regionals, inviting her to apply. (Sky West and Express Jet) The latest, from Express Jet was addressed to Ms XXXX YYYYYYY or current resident

I guess times are tough when you don't offer decent compensation.

bafanguy

1st Aug 2016, 06:59

"... addressed to Ms XXXX YYYYYYY or current resident..."

AXA,

That's hilarious !!! I'll be laughing about it all day. :-)))

A Squared

1st Aug 2016, 07:29

Glad you like it. It's been a source of amusement around here since it arrived.

zondaracer

1st Aug 2016, 09:04

Commutair and Trans States Airines have also been sending out cards in the the mail as well. Trans States was offering $50 Amazon cards for showing up to an interview. I have also received cards from several part 135 companies.

bafanguy

1st Aug 2016, 20:56

Zonda and AxA,

I've paid money for less entertainment value than your two latest posts...and I certainly believe you both. Any more to the stories ?

zondaracer

2nd Aug 2016, 14:05

The first company to send out unsolicited cards for pilots was Great Lakes, back in 2014. Then the other companies followed. I never got the card from SkyWest, because I'm already on the payroll, but I got the one from Expressjet. Then the rest followed.

bafanguy

3rd Aug 2016, 14:01

As long as Great Lakes stays in operation, no other regional has a valid excuse for failure. GL has to at least get some credit for fighting the valiant fight.

NuGuy

7th Aug 2016, 18:30

The pinch the regionals find themselves in is due to the collapse of the general aviation segment of the industry. The majors will never be in a position of shortage, despite the hand wringing and teeth nashing of some.

For decades the regionals (and commuters before them) benefited from the large and diverse general aviation industry to supply both inexpensive (relatively) training and a steady supply of willing aviators.

While GA in the US has been in steady, but slow decline since the early 80's, it was after 9/11 that it took it's most precipitous decline. Business insurance went into orbit, and while personal insurance crept back down, business insurance for anything even remotely to do with aviation stayed high at every segment of the business chain. This has a compounding effect through to the end user.

Also in the mid 1990's, you had scads of people who were still in the aviation business "for the love of it". You might laugh, but these types of operators often had a personal, vested interest in the business, and as a result, their prices were often only marginally above the break even point. By the 2000's these folks started to retire en masse, and either they closed up shop, or sold to a corporate entity that was far more interested in profit (not necessarily a bad thing), that drove up costs beyond the historical norm.

Up until the mid-1990s, you could go zero-to-hero (Commerical SEL/MEL, Instrument, CFI/II/MEI) in the US for about $15k USD...including a few months room and board. Adjusted for inflation that's about 22k today. But the actual price today is 3-4 times that amount.

Sure people will talk about product liability, but that's been with us since the early 1970s. Fuel costs don't help, but in the big picture, and inflation adjusted, 100LL is around historical norms with only blips here and there.

But there have been a few ugly confluences to really drive the stake in...the Great Recession of the late 2000's and the nasty run-up in fuel costs at the same time was bad. Lots of folks getting old and timing out of flying on the GA side. The collapse in GA aircraft price bubble in 2007 frustrated a lot of people who had money in their airplanes, and they pushed their planes into the back of the hangar and padlocked the door. The high costs and low aircraft value now makes upgrading an older airplane a seriously cost-negative situation, only doable by those truly dedicated to the cause.

The regional airline segment built their entire business model around a supply chain that no longer exists. I seriously doubt that any government funded or supported model can replace what existed up until 10 years go. It just isn't going to happen.

Throw in a societal/generation shift away from aviation interest and/or the airline lifestyle (if you can call it that), and your going to come up empty. Any solution, whether it's raising pay to attract what's left, or shifting flying to the majors, is going to cost big bucks, and, as typical, the airlines will seek to shift that cost to anyone else.

Nu

bafanguy

12th Aug 2016, 12:44

This article, dated July 1, 2016, is about the relationship between Silver Airways and Pan Am Academy to supply regional pilots. Just a bit further marshalling of resources:

https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Aviation-Pilot-Recruitment-News-Item/7008/Pan%20Am%20%20Academy%20Agreement%20With%20Silver%20Airways

zondaracer

12th Aug 2016, 13:15

I just got a recruitment postcard yesterday from Great Lakes.

bafanguy

12th Aug 2016, 16:34

Zonda,

We'll know GLA has reached panic stage when I get one of those postcards !! :-)))

zondaracer

12th Aug 2016, 16:37

Hey, it did say that they are offering both full time and part time pilot positions and that you can fly beyond 65 years old (due to the part 135 certificate). I think panic stage hit awhile ago.

A Squared

12th Aug 2016, 16:58

I just got a recruitment postcard yesterday from Great Lakes.

Awesome. You can fly 9 seat 1900's for a true bottom feeder.

Hey, it did say that they are offering both full time and part time pilot positions and that you can fly beyond 65 years old (due to the part 135 certificate). I think panic stage hit awhile ago.

Yeah, when you pull 10 seats out of your 19 seat airplanes just so you can hire lower time pilots, you're in the "taking drastic measures" realm. It's worth noting that they haven't taken the drastic step of offering competitive compensation.

zondaracer

12th Aug 2016, 18:26

Yeah no thanks. They are losing some EAS routes this fall to Pen Air.

atpcliff

12th Aug 2016, 21:09

UAL just started a program with Lufthansa, at their cadet training center in Arizona. If you are a CFI (with other credentials), and you get hired by Lufthansa, you fly as CFI for your 1500 hours/ATP, and then you go directly to the UAL narrow-body fleet, bypassing the regionals.

The majors in the US have enough applicants to last them 3-5 years, then they don't know how they will keep their airframes flying, hence new programs as described above. AA has 3 wholly-owned regionals that have direct flow-thru to AA, after a certain amount of service at one of the 3 wholly-owned regionals (Envoy, PSA and Piedmont).

zondaracer

12th Aug 2016, 22:21

The UAL/ATCA program looks tempting. As. CFI/CFII/MEI plus EASA FI, with some airline experience, it does look very appealing.

zondaracer

17th Aug 2016, 15:47

I can't make this stuff up.

https://s3.postimg.org/uryjp4wdv/image.jpg

A Squared

17th Aug 2016, 17:24

I can't make this stuff up.

Priceless!! Still no mention of offering a decent salary though. It's not a shortage until they start increasing pay.

zondaracer

17th Aug 2016, 17:48

Republic does have a $12500 hiring bonus now and highest pay for the regionals. Management held out for 8 years but they had to cave in eventually.

A Squared

17th Aug 2016, 18:10

True that, but my take on hiring bonuses is that it's kinda like dangling shiny things. Republic may have a better pay scale, but a lot of companies are using "hiring bonuses" to divert attention away from the poor pay scale. A hiring bonus is fairly meaningless in year 2 of your employment.

zondaracer

17th Aug 2016, 18:34

Yeah I completely agree. The AA wholy owned are totally guilty of keeping pay low but dangling a flow and a bonus to get new hires.

Piltdown Man

17th Aug 2016, 21:29

This is like offering beads and shiny things to aboriginals in times past. How many takers?

PM

bafanguy

17th Aug 2016, 21:54

"...dangling a flow..."

Zonda (and Piltdown),

It's hard to count on how effectively flows will work...a bit of a roll of the dice, I suppose. They can be a long haul and lots can go wrong with that "promise" [if that's what it is] along the way but a person is getting some experience that helps on the ladder climb.

Whatever happened to that Endeavor-to-Delta program ? I have a vague recollection of it causing some bad feelings with the Endeavor pilots already on the list pre-Endeavor-to-Delta when it was introduced.

zondaracer

17th Aug 2016, 23:53

A Squared

18th Aug 2016, 00:03

An Endeavor guy would speak better to the program, but it was only a guaranteed interview, not a guaranteed job, and you still had to meet the hiring requirements for Delta to qualify for the interview, so not a true flow, but overall not a bad program from what I know.

I think the initial pain came from the fact that the initial EtD program was for new hires. The SSP program was implemented and extended to all pilots on property.

So is anyone struck by the irony of offering the opportunity to apply for a different job as an incentive to accept the job you're offering???

"Hey, if you come to work for us, we might give you the opportunity to get a good job, later"

bafanguy

18th Aug 2016, 09:31

"...and you still had to meet the hiring requirements for Delta to qualify for the interview, so not a true flow..."

Zonda,

I used to have the details of the E-to-D from the website but changed computers recently. I didn't bother saving a lot of stuff but what I remember is the Endeavor interview was the only one involved. DL personnel were part of the Endeavor interview process and had a major say in hiring the applicant. After meeting some criteria like a certain amount of capt time at Endeavor and slots open at DL, you just flowed up to mainline. That's what caused the big stink. And, you couldn't apply to DL outside the E-to-D pipeline if you were in that pipeline.

I recall a very small number of applicants were hired via that plan and I lost track of the existence of the plan itself. And...my recollection is always subject to revision. ;-)

bafanguy

18th Aug 2016, 14:31

Here's how it started. Where it stands today...how many were hired...what became of them ? I don't know. For a low-time guy who was going to slog it out in regional hell for years anyway, this may have been a great deal. I'm pretty sure it caused some hard feeling in the ranks.

"As a result,effective June15, the Endeavor-to-Delta Pilot Hiring Program & Commitment (EtD Commitment) program will be used for all pilot candidate interviews at Endeavor.
Pilots offered employment at Endeavor under the EtD Commitment after June 15, 2014, will, upon becoming and remaining eligible per the terms described in this document, be offered employment as Delta pilots."

http://www.endeavorair.com/documents/EtD_Hiring_Program_Overview_61314.pdf

spaflyer

19th Aug 2016, 12:25

Time to increase salaries, and think on sponsoring foreigners? (I did all my training in US and have FAA licenses) but it sucks when you can't stay in the US working after all..

striker26

19th Aug 2016, 14:14

spaflyer - few of my friends went down to the states (from Canada) to do just that and none of them currently have a job in North America as no airline/school will sponsor you further than for your training, nor will you be in the US long enough for a green card. 1 guy came back to Canada to convert (spent another 15k+), another went to an Asian airline and paid 90k+ for his type and line training on top of the 65k usd for training...very dumb.......not worth it if you ask me.

It baffles me the US won't even allow Canadian's to seek regional airline jobs as TC and FAA are so similar in terms of pilot requirements.

Advice to any foreign pilot...do the training in your country. The US has enough potential pilots, just need a more secure and attractive package which will come in due time.

zondaracer

19th Aug 2016, 18:32

Spaflyer - Salaries are slowly increasing and pilots are returning to the profession. I am sure the airlines would love to sponsor foreigners, as this would keep wages low, but as it stands, the US Government has determined that there is not a true pilot shortage.

striker26 - Your friend spent 15k to convert an FAA certificate to a TC license? Did they not know that Canada and the US have an agreement and will automatically convert licenses with just a knowledge test and medical exam?

A Squared

19th Aug 2016, 18:59

striker26 - Your friend spent 15k to convert an FAA certificate to a TC license? Did they not know that Canada and the US have an agreement and will automatically convert licenses with just a knowledge test and medical exam?

Yeah, I was scratcing my head about that one too. I converted my certificate to a Papua New Guinea ATPL for a far smaller fee and a written test. I haven't converted to a Canadian certificate myself, but I know pilots who have, and it I don't recall anyone claiming it was a significant expense.

A Squared

19th Aug 2016, 23:01

It baffles me the US won't even allow Canadian's to seek regional airline jobs as TC and FAA are so similar in terms of pilot requirements.

You know of a lot of US pilots flying for Canadian Airlines? I don't mean guys who married a Canadian woman and immigrated, I mean US residents who applied to a Canadian airline and got a job and a work permit and are working as expats. I don’t know any.

I think that it works both ways. Whether that is right or wrong is another question.

Sky Slug

22nd Aug 2016, 04:26

The 1500 hour rule is killing aviation programs in US universities that have great reputations like UND and ERAU. How many of the regional accidents in the last two decades have been caused by their graduates vs. some guy who went to a Florida "get your ATP quick program" or local FBO a program? Zero.

Colgan put a non-screened, washout loser as a CA in charge of a DH4 flight to Buffalo. If he had failed the number of check-rides in a university environment, he would've been told to get an English degree. He ran his plane into a bunch of houses.

Guys and ladies like us put in the legitimate work to get a bachelors degree from a good aviation program. We were hired with hours like 322, 283, and 185. And we were given an FO position on an SF3/AR8/ERJ/CRJ. British Airways puts their recruits, without a university degree, on an A320 series aircraft.

The regionals will have to hire from Europe and Canada. It's not a bad gig. Regionals are suffering and boosting pay. You're looking at a 3-5 year gig before getting promoted to a major FO. The baby-boomers are retiring at a pace that far exceeds American supply.

bafanguy

22nd Aug 2016, 09:51

Tinstaafl

22nd Aug 2016, 23:12

Show me the $$$ (and the quality of life) and I'll apply to a regional. Until then I'll stick with corporate/135.

striker26

23rd Aug 2016, 15:12

Sorry guys (for my last post) i should have been more detailed...he went on to do his conversions and then CFI in Canada. What i am saying is sure if you have experience im sure a regional will hire/sponsor you if the pool gets very lean but i wouldn't bank on a US school considering the cost and the added pressure of getting a low hour job there (for international students). Even ATP flight school back in the day stated they will only sponsor Modular training, not the Cadet scheme. So after your CPL, if you're lucky you will continue to get sponsored as a CFI.

My point was that for Canadian's there isn't a reason to go down to Florida to do training AND pay housing and currency conversion. Sure our winters and weather is an issue but would a few months really make a difference when you can save on transport/housing/conversion/time and fees?

The US has a good problem on their hands, lots of need for regional pilots and im sure the majors will continue to expand and have retirees. Here in Canada what sucks is that you spend 1-2 years instructing after your CPL, 2-4 years at a regional flying a Navajo, only to get an interview for a low paying q400 FO job for another 4 before you can even think about an a320/737. And mind you'll be hovering around a 35-45k salary for almost a decade.

Like Tinstaafl mentioned, hardly attractive. We have enough pilots here in Canada, just not attractive positions given the time required to a jet! There are many pilots here who would jump ship down south to fly a CRJ/ERJ at 1500hrs than flying a prop for a decade and for many of my fellow mates i hope that day comes.

Bash me all you want for this, but the days of flying a prop for 8 years to prove you can fly a jet are over, just look in the UK/ME and Asia and even the US now with regionals grabbing people right at 1500. They got MPL programs and iATPL programs buzzing. Maybe im just naive about the aviation industry in Canada, but until you get to a major, the package is hardly better than a full time retail job at a mall, especially here up North!

zondaracer

23rd Aug 2016, 17:56

Lots of guys flew Navajos and turboprops for the last decade here in the US. It wasn't until recently that we've seen all this movement.

Sky Slug

24th Aug 2016, 05:37

"The regionals will have to hire from Europe and Canada."

Slug,

I'd expect that if things here were as bad as all the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth by experts would seem to suggest, the regionals (and TP freight feeders who advertise constantly) would've made more of an effort to get the ruling junta to allow expats here; there appears to be at least some interest from them in coming. So far, I don't see any of that happening and it'd be a hard secret to keep (and why would they anyway ?). They've had access to Aussies for long enough that any formal pursuit of that supply would've happened by now if they intended to use it; nothing...zero...nada in a formal industry/company-initiated effort that I've heard of.

Barring any events yet to emerge, the only conclusion I can draw from the empirical evidence is there are enough pilots to keep the seats filled and wheels turning despite the meddling of the kakistocracy.
We're only in the very beginning of the crisis. United and their acquisition, Continental, outsourced flying to a ridiculous degree. Like putting ERJs on flights between Newark and Atlanta. They can't bring on new 737s fast enough, their customer satisfaction scores have cratered because of regional cancellations due to understaffing. Delta bought all of AirTran/Southwest's 717s because they had to replace the DC-9-50s coming offline from Northwest, plus regional cutbacks.

I'm lucky in that my parents paid for my college education and flight training. However for kids without that advantage, why choose a college degree in flight? You're going to be 100k in debt (if you go public school), and stuck hauling freight on a Metroliner for $17 an hour after graduation since you can't get a job at a regional.

I think university programs provide a modicum of responsibility for future pilots that a Florida/Arizona ATP program does not. They'll take your money for a third/fourth retake of a checkride. The older guys I fly with are mostly former military. I will never compare myself to them, even if they were humping a C-130. Those guys are retiring at an unbelievable pace. A got a line, albeit in a very unpopular domicile, within a year.

"Show me the $$$ (and the quality of life) and I'll apply to a regional. Until then I'll stick with corporate/135."

Different strokes for different folks. I always saw myself hauling passengers as the ultimate bus driver. I have loved commercial aircraft from when I was a kid and watched planes take off at Gravelly Point.

zondaracer

24th Aug 2016, 11:06

$17 an hour?? I started out as a flight instructor making $33 an hour.

ra4000

24th Aug 2016, 21:52

Sky Slug do you mind elaborate little more "quality of life"?
Aviation is a 24/7 365 days a year and not a Monday-Friday 9 to 5
Kind of business.

Tinstaafl

25th Aug 2016, 03:29

Sky Slug was quoting me re quality of life. The usual options with regionals are:

1. Move to an *assigned* base. Bad luck if it's not one you want (if they happen to have one that you & your spouse want). Have you considered your partner's career, and your childrens' school. Bad luck, again, if they're comfortably settled where you currently live.

More bad luck if (or more likely, when) the regional closes that base because they didn't get the contract renewed from the major for those routes for the next 3 years.

2. Commute. Now you need to pay - on what can be little more than McDonalds wages - for a crash pad at your assigned base, and you get to spend your 1 or 2 days off between tours commuting back & forth.

Aurora8

28th Aug 2016, 05:18

"The 1500 hour rule is killing aviation programs in US universities that have great reputations like UND and ERAU. How many of the regional accidents in the last two decades have been caused by their graduates vs. some guy who went to a Florida "get your ATP quick program" or local FBO a program? Zero.

Colgan put a non-screened, washout loser as a CA in charge of a DH4 flight to Buffalo. If he had failed the number of check-rides in a university environment, he would've been told to get an English degree. He ran his plane into a bunch of houses."

Not saying those universities aren't doing good work, but that guy had a terrible record and should've been washed out at many points along the way so I doubt his choice of universities would've made any difference. Aside from that, he could've been an excellent instructor in 172's but that's a bit different to PIC Q400 at night, in weather.

bafanguy

28th Aug 2016, 13:39

ALPA statement on regional pay:

News Room - ALPA (http://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/news-room/2016-08-16-strong-career-key-to-attracting-new-pilots-to-airline-profession)

Just to add some comparisons from a company NOT mentioned in the ALPA article (for whatever that means), here's some recent data on Expressjet...crunch your own numbers:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional/expressjet

As of May, 2016, XJT CRJ seniority list, 37% of the pilots had been there 15 years or more.

Oh, and by the way, insignificant retirements:

2016=?
2015=19
2014=19

Sky Slug

31st Aug 2016, 03:41

Attorneys: Airline concerned about pilot's ability before 2009 crash - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/23/us/new-york-crash-lawsuits/)

The problem is that CA Renslow (rest in peace) struggled even at upgrading from a Saab 340 to the DH4. However Colgan was expanding rapidly as Continental put more mainline flying to really cheap regionals like Colgan. We lost a lot of positions at EWR because Continental started using Colgan extensively. Colgan failed to do appropriate background checks on him. They also paired him with an FO (may she rest in peace) that was trained at an FBO and commuted in from SEA via a red-eye FedEx flight through Memphis the previous evening. She slept in the crew room while awaiting her evening's flight.

We had a lot of older pilots at XJT (or BTA, as it was known) and all of them were great to work with. Nearly all of them were Houston-based, and had wives and kids. A lot of them planned on staying for the duration of their career. It made sense for a lot of them to just stay on at the top of payscale until retirement instead of transitioning to FO positions at a major. ExpressJet was a great airline to work for and they made me a better pilot.

bafanguy

31st Aug 2016, 10:02

A Squared

31st Aug 2016, 12:20

The latest headhunting effort by Air Wisconsin:

Airman Trainee (http://www.airwis.com/airman_trainee.html)

Still leaves a few unanswered questions...

P.S. I saw one version of this announcement saying there are interviews on Sept. 16/17 in SJU. Why SJU ?

Hmmm, interesting. There doesn't seem to be anything involved which assists in getting to 1500 hours from the 500 minimum. Just kind of a placeholder for when you do make it. Wonder how much this position pays. Maybe I could get a dozen or so of these "trainee" positions, do the monthly training modules in the hotel when I'm on the road and cash the paychecks. Be a nice little income supplement.

bafanguy

31st Aug 2016, 13:06

"There doesn't seem to be anything involved which assists in getting to 1500 hours from the 500 minimum."

A x A,

Yep, that's the problem built into the system these days...and needs to be addressed by the carriers if supply is really all that critical. Some carriers seem to be addressing that by setting up CFI-to-regional programs but I don't see mention of that in the AWA announcement.

Inter-American University is in SJU and has an AABI-certified flight program:

Inter American University of PR ? School of Aeronautics (http://interamerican.aero/)

Maybe AWA feels it's easier for them to get to the broke college students than the other way around so they're doing interviews there ?

zondaracer

31st Aug 2016, 13:07

And by the time you get to 1500 hours, Air Wisconsin will no longer be around, so double win! (Sarcasm)

bafanguy

31st Aug 2016, 13:19

" And by the time you get to 1500 hours, Air Wisconsin will no longer be around..."

Z,

The demise of the regional system has certainly been predicted. I'm sure no businessman but have to wonder if the legacies can afford to let it die (or euthanize it) when it provides such a huge chunk of their system flying. I forget the exact number now but remember reading that 40+% of DL's flying is regional feed...and AA is similar ?

Bringing that level of flying under the "real" mainline umbrella would be time consuming and expensive, would it not ? And, it'd require the legacies to hire even greater numbers of pilots than they now need just to replace attrition.

zondaracer

31st Aug 2016, 13:39

Air Wisconsin currently does not have a contract with any airline. Air Wisconsin's contract with American expired, and AWAC is exercising their option to extend by two years with no secured flying at the end of the extension. Pilots or jumping ship left and right with no announcement of future flying. Many pilots there are only giving the company a couple more months before they too decide to pull chocks.

bafanguy

31st Aug 2016, 17:46

" Air Wisconsin currently does not have a contract with any airline."

Z,

Yes, it'd be hard to get rats to jump on what they perceive as a sinking ship...particularly with so many other "ships" available.

But as for the regional business model, the big industry players seem devoted to it judging by the amount of their system flying done by it. Changing their ways is possible but lots would have to be undone, most of it seemingly expensive.

bafanguy

9th Sep 2016, 19:59

Looks like Trans States is putting out the hard sell...including saying, "Don't worry...you won't have to work here very long." Heck of a selling point:

http://www.transstates.net/careers/Pages/pilots.aspx

bafanguy

13th Sep 2016, 16:49

Anyone able to supply the entire article ?:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/analysis-us-regionals-at-sharp-end-of-labour-pains-428805/

downdata

14th Sep 2016, 06:46

You just have to register a free account to view the article

zondaracer

14th Sep 2016, 20:35

Envoy announced pay raises today. First year starting at over $37/HR (up from $26) and singing bonuses (ranging from $15,000-$20,000) and retention bonuses.

PSA also announced a similar pay increase.

This leaves Mesa, Air Wisconsin, and Piedmont without significant first year pay increases.

atpcliff

15th Sep 2016, 04:26

UAL started a program with Lufthansa. LH has a cadet training center in Arizona. You need to be a CFI. You get hired into the program as a CFI for LH in AZ. After you get your 1500 hrs/ATP, then you go directly to UAL as a narrow-body FO..skipping the regionals. Announced Aug, 2016.

bafanguy

16th Sep 2016, 15:44

PSA details:

PSA Airlines | PSA Airlines, a Wholly Owned Subsidiary of American Airlines, Announces Industry-Leading Pay For New-Hire Pilots | September 14, 2016 (http://www.psaairlines.com/psa-airlines-announces-industry-leading-pay-for-new-hire-pilots/)

bafanguy

17th Sep 2016, 21:38

Envoy details:

https://airwaysmag.com/newswire/envoy-air-offers-industry-leading-pay-pilots/

Piloto Maluco

17th Sep 2016, 23:39

You're lucky Americans!! We don't have this kind of opportunity in Europe... :(

Enjoy

training wheels

18th Sep 2016, 03:25

You're lucky Americans!! We don't have this kind of opportunity in Europe...

It was like that in Europe around 2005/6 ... then it all went down hill from there

bafanguy

22nd Sep 2016, 20:01

Latest Piedmont offering:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/piedmont-airlines-increases-pilot-pay-130000520.html

The flow through is nice but...hard to say when one moves up to mainline, right ?

striker26

22nd Sep 2016, 20:35

Well, they are giving you an apparant gurantee you;d be on the mainline one day which, doesnt really matter in the US, once you have hours there's plenty of airlines willing to hire. I wish we had this similar scheme in more countries, seems like a great pathway especially if you just graduated school.

bafanguy

22nd Sep 2016, 21:34

"Well, they are giving you an apparant gurantee you;d be on the mainline one day..."

A person would have to read the specific details of the flow through, how it's structured and if it allows a person to act independently to know if it's actually a "guarantee". Time will tell...probably lots of time.

If a young person is going to spend years at a regional anyway, it's likely worth giving it a try to see how/if it develops as advertised.

Airline management promises many things but that's an entirely different thread. [You'll have to excuse my skepticism born of 35 years of airline flying. :-) ]

The point is the US regionals are giving it a serious go to get/keep bodies on board so I guess they get some credit for that.

SeaArrrrrrJay

23rd Sep 2016, 04:46

Piedmont just announced a pay raise. Similar scheme to the other AA WO's.

bafanguy

26th Sep 2016, 19:09

Anyone able to supply the entire article ?:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...-pains-428805/

"You just have to register a free account to view the article "

It's unlikely it contained any earth shattering revelations or the news would've been reported in other publications.

bafanguy

3rd Oct 2016, 13:17

Latest from Mesa. They appear to be lagging a bit in the pay area these days:

"Pilots are paid per flight hour as negotiated between the Air Line Pilots Association and the Company in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act. The Contract stipulates minimum pay of 75.83 flight hours per month. Current first year First Officer pay is $22.18 per flight hour for Regional Jets. All pilots are paid on the basis of scheduled block time or actual block times whichever is greater."

That comes to $1682/mo. for a new F/O. Pretty sad...but, they're hiring !! Are they filling seats ?

Pilot-Fixed Wing job at Mesa Airlines - Pilot - First Officer (http://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/Pilot+-+First+Officer/Phoenix-Arizona/jobID_132468)

Tinstaafl

4th Oct 2016, 03:47

I just got invited to apply to Republic, but declined. The pay still isn't sufficient, and commuting isn't conducive to a happy family life. You also have to be prepared to move to any base they choose, whenever they choose. No thanks. I have my wife's job and my son's schooling to consider. Uprooting them just because a regional airline decides to close a base/loses the contract or whatever just isn't on.

bafanguy

4th Oct 2016, 09:39

Tinstaafl,

Certainly understandable...

bafanguy

10th Oct 2016, 09:53

Couldn't find the ideal pigeon hole for this info so I'll put it here since it touches on the regional pilot supply issue. Lots of data:

https://www.halldale.com/files/halldale/attachments/Erfan%20Chowdhury.pdf

Might as well throw in this one too:

http://www.pilotsourcestudy.org/ESW/Files/PSS_2015_AABI_Townhall_v12_Locked.pdf

bafanguy

11th Oct 2016, 09:28

Just a little tidbit about Horizon Air teaming up with a university to get pilots:

“The new pilot development program will permit up to 17 students to apply for and receive a stipend, administered by the CWU Foundation, to be used for training fees and expenses related to completing their Commercial Flight Instructor certificate. The students will then receive a conditional job offer from Horizon Air, which will commit them to a term of employment with the company.

This agreement also ensures that graduating students will serve in the CWU flight training facility as certified flight instructors until they accumulate 1,000 flight hours in their log book prior to joining Horizon Air. This arrangement serves well to have adequate flight instructors in place to train the incoming students at CWU.”

https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Aviation-Pilot-Recruitment-News-Item/7157/Horizon%20Air%20funds%20CWU%20pilot%20development%20program

nevhermyilmaz

11th Oct 2016, 20:32

zondaracer

11th Oct 2016, 22:36

ATCA // CPP / Airline Training Center Arizona (http://www.atca.net/cpp/)

nevhermyilmaz

13th Oct 2016, 18:18

thanks zondaracer.

"Designed with the flight instructor in mind, this program offers employment at ATCA with a very exciting compensation package, and upon meeting CPP graduation requirements you’ll become an active applicant within the United Airlines hiring pool."

Last few words of this sentence seems to be still leaving an open door.

zondaracer

14th Oct 2016, 01:08

United has a similar CPP program with a Commutair and Expressjet. I have seen the eligibility requirements for the CPP and they are pretty stringent, but not unreasonable.

If you become ineligible for the CPP for whatever reason, at least you are still building turbine and 121 time at one of the regional partners which will leave more options open in case the CPP doesnt work out.

The salary at ATCA is quite good. A friend of mine worked at ATCA and averaged about 700 hours per year. Salaried employee.

bafanguy

2nd Nov 2016, 13:43

Just a little update on Endeavor Air. Appears they're throwing a bit more money into the mix. Notice that the carrot for pilots is a "Delta Guaranteed Interview"...not a guaranteed JOB. In fact, of those Endeavor pilots interviewed of late, a suspiciously small percentage have actually been hired. Makes a person wonder:

Become an Endeavor Air Pilot (http://www.endeavorair.com/pilots.html)

The Delta CEO, Ed Bastian, recently put out a video answer to a question from an Endeavor pilot about whether Delta would ever move Endeavor ( a wholly owned subsidiary) under the mainline umbrella. The answer was a VERY clear "no". He said they like the arrangement the way it is.

bafanguy

3rd Nov 2016, 10:54

Breaking News...hot off the presses !! [ :-))) ]

The Endeavor Pilot Connection Program has been launched where any ACTIVE DELTA employee will get $2000 for recommending a person for an Endeavor pilot position if the person successfully completes training through OE.

Not sure what to make of that...

zondaracer

3rd Nov 2016, 11:58

Gotta keep the regional feed going...

bafanguy

3rd Nov 2016, 13:46

"Gotta keep the regional feed going... "

Zonda,

Certainly true. But, is it just casting the widest possible net or a sign of desperation ?

I wouldn't get too giddy over that guaranteed interview thing.

A Squared

3rd Nov 2016, 19:46

For what it's worth, I ended up at an Express Jet recruiting event last week. Not that I'm remotely considering going to work there, I was lured there under false premises. (Free pizza was offered and I didn't ask enough questions.) they were selling their Delta flow thru program, 3 years at Express Jet and an interview with Delta for qualifying pilots.

bafanguy

4th Nov 2016, 19:18

AxA,

If XJT has some deal with Delta, I hope they actually hire people as a result. In the past few years, UAL, via some formalized deal, hired twice as many XJT pilots as Delta did.

I'd be highly suspicious of any of these guaranteed interview deals. Ask any Endeavor pilot. :-(

atpcliff

5th Nov 2016, 08:58

XJT now has guaranteed interviews for both UAL and DAL...if you fly for the old Express Jet u interview with UAL, if you fly for the old ASA, you interview with DAL.

bafanguy

5th Nov 2016, 11:07

"...if you fly for the old Express Jet u interview with UAL, if you fly for the old ASA, you interview with DAL. "

atpcliff,

Ah so...that explains it. I didn't pick up on that distinction.

Until March of this year, XJT put out incredibly detailed monthly pilot attrition summaries covering both sides of the XJT "house". Someone really did a lot of work to compile them...and they were revealing. If I could, I'd put one up here for you to see. UAL hired FAR more XJT pilots than DL. And when one looks at what's been happening to the Endeavor pilots as they interview via that deal with DL (a PWA side letter agreement, IIUC), it appears DL is reluctant to hire away pilots from their feeders, particularly captains. It takes longer to make a captain than a FO.

Overall, I wouldn't be terribly enthused, or make any career plans, based on the promise of an interview arrangement connected with DL. As big as the amount of regional feed is into the legacy side, they can't afford to hire away pilots if it damages the ability to provide that feed.

atpcliff

5th Nov 2016, 16:53

As big as the amount of regional feed is into the legacy side, they can't afford to hire away pilots if it damages the ability to provide that feed.

They are better off damaging their own feed, by hiring their own regional pilots, than if they restrict the hiring so much that MORE of their regional guys leave for their competitors. The Pilot Shortage is accelerating...

bafanguy

8th Nov 2016, 09:03

cliff,

It's likely that all the regional pilots who want to move on will do that regardless. So, one way or another, they'll be gone with the only variable being the timeline.

bafanguy

10th Nov 2016, 09:14

Republic Airways casting a bit wider net:

https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Aviation-Pilot-Recruitment-News-Item/7220/Republic%20Airways%20Signs%2020th%20Interview%20Partnership% 20Agreement

bafanguy

10th Nov 2016, 16:55

AA subsidiary, Envoy, makes announcement re RW pilots moving to the regional:

Calling Military Helicopter Pilots: Join the Envoy Rotor Transition Program | Envoy Air (http://www.envoyair.com/2016/11/07/calling-military-helicopter-pilots-join-the-envoy-rotor-transition-program/)

bafanguy

16th Nov 2016, 19:22

Envoy statement posted 16 Nov. Looks like they're pretty serious...givin' the bushes a good shake:

“ 'When you add up Envoy’s increased signing bonus, our $20,000 First Officer retention bonus and guaranteed flow-through to American Airlines, without any further interview – it’s clear that our pilots are among the most highly compensated in the industry,' said Ric Wilson, Vice President Flight Operations."

Envoy boosts industry-leading starting pay to $60,000! | Envoy Air (http://www.envoyair.com/2016/11/16/envoy-boosts-industry-leading-starting-pay-to-60000/)

striker26

16th Nov 2016, 19:46

The regionals will fight to get as many pilots to fill their contractual obligations and gain a share of profit, as pay increases, they'll negotiate higher cost based agreements with the mainlines, leading all in all to higher fares, which in turn means less air travel! This "revolution" to instill higher pay to attract talent is a short term solution. Sad to see the regional CRJ/ERJ/Ejet in the US looked upon as "starter aircraft" meaning a pilot would only join knowing he'd leave to a mainline. Give it a few years, the regional flight decks will be full of 1500 hr guys and 3000 hr captains all who don't really wanna be there tomorrow....i wonder what risk that would create:D

bafanguy

18th Nov 2016, 21:28

A couple of thoughts from the Peanut Gallery:

With regionals increasing pay rates, promising a mainline interview or offering an alleged flow through to mainline, it would be interesting to see if they now have an increased number of people applying and coming to class as a result. But, for the data to mean anything definitive, it would have to be filtered to show those who had the quals to have applied BEFORE the latest offerings rather than those just now hitting 1500 (or r-ATP mins where applicable). This would either support or dispel ALPA's contention that the regional "shortage" was a pay shortage rather than a pilot shortage.

Perhaps a fix, if needed, would be moving all affiliated regional pilots into mainline and just be done with it. I don't see any indication this is happening. In fact, quite the contrary. AA wholly-owneds are dangling the flow through as a carrot. And Delta CEO, Ed Bastian, just unequivocally stated he had no intention of moving Endeavor under the mainline umbrella.

FutureCaptain86

1st Dec 2016, 13:36

The falsehoods about airlines not sponsoring work visas are amusing, because I want to give the reality. I am working for a US regional right now, and they sponsored my H1B work visa. A pilot DOES qualify for a H1B under the technicalities of immigration law. The only key is if a company wants to. If anyone wants to know more about my situation, PM me.

bafanguy

1st Dec 2016, 18:03

"A pilot DOES qualify for a H1B under the technicalities of immigration law.... The only key is if a company wants to."

FC86,

Interesting. Most people looking at the visa issue are most likely NOT experts or even knowledgeable on the subject. And dealing with our Imperial Federal Government is an exercise in frustration.

I've followed this issue for a while and have NOT seen any company admit they'll help an expat applicant with the visa process...except for Republic and that was reputedly unsuccessful. This from a January, 2016, WSJ article:

"Mr. Bedford called the increased training requirement the “most significant headwind” to bringing in new pilots. The airline last year sought to take advantage of a slump in Brazilian air traffic to bring in foreign pilots, but was unable to get visas for them to fly in the U.S., he said."

Google this title of the article for a readable link: "Republic Airways CEO Says Labor Accord Has Halved Pilot Losses"

While you're understandably reluctant to mention the airline you fly for, could you just give some very general details of how you went about getting where you are ?

Did you just apply from overseas with no connections to the USA that would give you a head start or advantage, i.e., no relatives here or previous visas of any kind ?

Did the employer freely offer to facilitate the visa process for you when you applied...or did you have to ask for help ?

Did you have FAA licenses when you applied ?

I'm sure there are lots of people who'd love to hear how it works.

peekay4

1st Dec 2016, 21:37

H1B Visa Salary Database 2016 (http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=AIRLINE+PILOT&city=&year=All+Years)

Note: these are really LCAs (labor condition certifications) for the past two calendar years only (2015 and 2016).

The vast majority of these LCAs were filled not by H1Bs but by Australian E-3 holders. However a few do hold H1Bs instead.

Whether or not an airline pilot really meets the "technicalities of immigration" is actually an open question. Right now approvals are being issued, so we can leave it at that for the time being.

bafanguy

1st Dec 2016, 21:49

PK4,

Well...that's pretty interesting. But I don't know what to make of it. Not even sure what questions to ask to understand what's going on with regionals, expats and visas.

Does it mean the airlines listed made application to use H1Bs but filled the spots with E-3s instead ?

Did the airlines officially act on behalf of expat applicants vs applicants getting a visa on their own and THEN applying ?

peekay4

2nd Dec 2016, 04:58

A pilot cannot obtain an H1B or E3 visa on his/her own; the prospective employer must make the petition.

H1B is the general mechanism which allows employers to hire foreign specialty occupation non-immigrant workers.

The first step in the H1B process is for the employer to file a Labor Condition Application (LCA) with the US Department of Labor. In the LCA the employer attests that they intend to hire the foreign pilot at prevailing wages (or higher), under standard working conditions, that they are not circumventing any labor disputes, etc.

If the Department of Labor agrees, they will certify the LCA. Only then can the employer petition the US immigration services (USCIS) for an H1B visa.

Over the years, two new specialty occupation worker visas were introduced: the H1B1 (for citizens of Singapore + Chile) and the E3 (for Australians). But the first step of the process remains the same: filing the LCA. Hence today the LCA database contains applications relating to the three different visas (H1B, H1B1, E3).

By law, these visas can only be used to hire workers for specialty occupations (https://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-3422/0-0-0-3751.html#0-0-0-655), defined as occupations requiring "attainment of a bachelor's or higher degree in the specific specialty (or its equivalent) as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States".

But airline pilot positions in the US generally do not require a bachelor's degree, and pilot training has not traditionally been considered equivalent to a degree. So the use of these visas to hire airline pilots is somewhat controversial.

bafanguy

2nd Dec 2016, 09:09

PK4,

Thanks. That sheds some light on the issue but raises a question or two.

Each entry on the list would represent ONE person for whom a visa was sought rather than some blanket application to admit several ?

The fact that the listed regionals made formal application to use expat visa holders must mean they intend to do just that or they wouldn't have expended the administrative time/money doing it ?

So, the assumption is that they did, in fact, hire expats despite statements like this from the Expressjet (several entries on that list) pilot hiring website:

"Authorization to work in the United States without sponsorship"

I don't understand why they'd not just go ahead and admit what they're doing. It's been speculated they don't want to pay expenses to get an applicant to/from the USA for interview. Hard to say for sure, but I don't see how that's an issue considering what people are willing to do to get a job these days (P2F, buy type ratings, etc.). It'd be a smallish expense for a person to get a cheap ticket to the USA for interview if required. And there's the Skype interview and online knowledge testing, etc., for the initial cull.

As for the bachelor's degree, the "requirement" for one is established by the government criteria rather than an airline's advertised "requirements" ? Some carriers don't list it as a requirement and some just say it's "preferred" while others won't give you the time of day without it (kinda makes it a "requirement" in that context).

I've thought this visa thing was along the lines of "where there's smoke..." but the info so far has been a bit anecdotal with people understandably hesitant to spill the beans publicly. Still very interesting.

peekay4

2nd Dec 2016, 17:47

1. An LCA is for an individual application (not bulk)

2. Statements on job postings such as ExpressJet's simply indicate preferences, not hard requirements or a promise not to hire those not meeting the preferences.

3. The bachelors degree requirement is gauged industry-wide for similar job positions. Besides in the case of ExpressJet (and most regionals) they explicitly state that a degree is preferred but not mandatory.

4. From the data, we can extrapolate that compared to all the pilots out there being hired, extremely few are coming in via H1B and only a handful via E3s.

(Note: the data isn't the complete list of pilot non-immigrant applications. Other companies may hire under alternate job titles such as "Captain" etc. , or under titles which typically would require a degree, such as Test or Engineering pilots.)

5. I'm guessing many if not most of these hires may be through recruiters and/or referrals.

bafanguy

3rd Dec 2016, 12:24

PK4,

Thanks for the info. You're probably right about this involving a small number of people in the Grand Scheme.

That list of carriers who applied for authority to use expats will at least show people where to concentrate their efforts. A glimpse behind the curtain ! :-)))

bafanguy

4th Dec 2016, 19:33

While we're on the subject of expats at regionals, one item mentioned but not answered was a statement made in another thread by a person whose name was VH-something. I can't find it now but he said (I got the impression he was speaking from personal experience ?) it was possible to start training at a regional here WITHOUT any FAA license and emerge from training WITH an FAA license by virtue of the regional training program.

Assuming I'm remembering his statement correctly [always have to preface it that way ;-)))] , is such a thing possible ? Seems like a bit of a stretch but I'm not all that knowledgeable on the nuts & bolts. I quit paying attention to such issues when I got my ATP circa 1971.

MarkerInbound ?

MarkerInbound

5th Dec 2016, 16:40

You called? 61.153 says to get a FAA ATP you must hold a FAA or foreign commercial with an IR. If the airline has an Aircrew Program Designee they could issue an ATP as the pilot's first FAA certificate. There would have to be the normal TSA background check and there would have to be a validation of the foreign license. I'm thinking it's a lot more common in the 142 world than in the 121 world so the APD may not be familiar but it's a fairly straight forward process.

bafanguy

5th Dec 2016, 18:10

MarkerInbound,

Thanks. That would sure grease the ways for an expat and save him a lot of time, money and aggravation.

ra4000

5th Dec 2016, 23:49

The lack of pilots is because lack of money.
Bring pilots from others countries doesn't fix the problem.
They still have to live in very expensive places with little money

bafanguy

13th Dec 2016, 10:13

Horizon Air has a number of "Pilot Development Programs" with colleges and training organizations:

Horizon Air Jobs - Jobs (http://horizonair.jobs/jobs/)

bafanguy

11th Jan 2017, 19:58

While Ameriflight isn't a "regional" in the common context, they're an entry-level carrier and have a demand for pilots. They've announced a pilot flow through program to pax carrier, Allegiant. More marshaling of resources:

AviTrader ? Ameriflight signs Pilot Recruitment Flow Through Agreement with Allegiant Air (http://www.avitrader.com/2017/01/11/ameriflight-signs-pilot-recruitment-flow-through-agreement-with-allegiant-air/)

bafanguy

12th Jan 2017, 19:13

"Here is one better.

Air Cargo Carriers with the worlds largest fleet of Shorts SD-360s. Has a flow thru agreement with Omni Air..."

bpi,

Neat. This is a fairly new deal ? Always glad to see more deals and opportunities for people. Found the statement quoted below on the ACC website but it didn't show any details (Haven't checked the Omni end of things). Have to apply to see how it works, I guess, but the announcement lists a "guaranteed interview" vs a guaranteed job. And sometimes just getting an interview is a HUGE accomplishment:

"December 2016

Inquire about AirCargo Carrier's Airline progression program with Omni Air International - - SD3 to B777 - in under 5 yrs. - guaranteed interview, apply today to learn more!"

bafanguy

21st Jan 2017, 12:02

Ameriflight has added Frontier to its flow through:

"The Career Path Pilot Program ensures pilots entering the program a pilot position with Frontier upon completion of outlined experience and training requirements."

https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Aviation-Pilot-Recruitment-News-Item/7346/Ameriflight%20Signs%20Pilot%20Flow%20Through%20Agreement%20w ith%20Frontier%20Airlines

VH DSJ

25th Jan 2017, 19:07

Son of a friend of mine just went from PR based ACC Captain to Omni B-777 F/O.
His cricketing legend Uncle got 'six. sixes in an over'. Sounds like the son got a 'home run'. Well played, that man.

His uncle was Sir Garfield Sobers?

mic310

29th Jan 2017, 13:23

Hi guys and girls. Does anyone know if Part 135 companies are using the E3 visa at the moment?😀

havick

29th Jan 2017, 13:41

Hi guys and girls. Does anyone know if Part 135 companies are using the E3 visa at the moment?😀

Only firefighting helicopter/air tractor companies that I know of.

peekay4

31st Jan 2017, 21:12

News today that Trump plans to increase the minimum qualifying base salary for H1B and related visas to $130,000 per year.

While the exact amount may still change, the final value is likely to be over $100,000 and could practically end using H1Bs for US regional pilot recruitment. The median base salary for "Airline Pilots" hired using this visa category in FY2016 was $73,000.

It's unknown if E3 visas will be similarly restricted by the Executive Order.

bafanguy

6th Feb 2017, 19:58

A couple of efforts by GoJet Airlines:

GoJet Announces Pilot Pipeline Agreement with California Flight Academy (http://aviationtribune.com/training/gojet-announces-pilot-pipeline-agreement-california-flight-academy/)

GoJet Airlines Announces Pilot Pipeline Agreement with San Diego Christian College (http://aviationtribune.com/training/gojet-airlines-announces-pilot-pipeline-agreement-san-diego-christian-college/)

http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/north-america/gojet-airlines-announces-increased-signing-and-type-rating-bonuses/

bafanguy

6th Feb 2017, 20:06

Yet another variation on the headhunting theme:

"Coast Flight Training is expanding from its San Diego headquarters to establish a second location for its airline flight training program in San Marcos, TX."

"The new training facilities in San Marcos will focus on training U. S. Military helicopter pilots who are transitioning to in-demand careers as civilian airline pilots for the nation’s top airlines."

U.S. Military Helicopter Pilots to train for careers with Envoy/American Airlines (http://aviationtribune.com/training/u-s-military-helicopter-pilots-train-careers-envoyamerican-airlines/)

bafanguy

9th Feb 2017, 19:17

Air Wisconsin update appeared today:

Air Wisconsin Announces New Bonus and Retention Program for Pilots (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/north-america/air-wisconsin-announces-new-bonus-and-retention-program-for-pilots/)

bafanguy

6th Mar 2017, 22:11

Several regionals and LCCs recruiting at this event:

Pilot-Fixed Wing job at SUN 'n FUN - Holy Cow! Hey All Pilots! ? A Secret Career Fair (http://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/Holy+Cow!+Hey+All+Pilots!+%E2%80%93+A+Secret+Career+Fair/Lakeland-Florida/jobID_375793)

bafanguy

10th Mar 2017, 08:19

ra4000

10th Mar 2017, 17:56

Another regional trolls for RW pilots to transform into FW pilots:

PSA Airlines | Careers (http://newton.newtonsoftware.com/career/JobIntroduction.action?clientId=8aa0050631b8651a0131e3688a5f 22af&id=8a7886115a1c301a015a1fb268ee5e0f&source)

Hello guys,
I have my SIC is a 29 years old kid, very sharp and I am pushing him to get a job with the regionals and flying the E175 or E190. He keeps saying that the salary the first year is around 65k with bonuses and the second year drop drastically. Is that true?
Someone told me that you fly the maximum hours allowed and around 20 days a month you can make up to 100k a year

zondaracer

11th Mar 2017, 05:49

Hello guys,
I have my SIC is a 29 years old kid, very sharp and I am pushing him to get a job with the regionals and flying the E175 or E190. He keeps saying that the salary the first year is around 65k with bonuses and the second year drop drastically. Is that true?
Someone told me that you fly the maximum hours allowed and around 20 days a month you can make up to 100k a year

Make sure you read the fine print. Some regionals that are advertising huge first year pay are actually including some items that don't really go in your bank. Some of the bonuses are really good. Having said that, $100,000 on second year pay is extremely unlikely. $100,000 is possible of they upgrade to captain and work really hard and get a bonus, but unless they are coming from another part 121 carrier or certain part 135 jobs, they probably won't even have the minimums to upgrade to captain by second year.

I do know junior captains at my company making upwards of $125,000 a year and senior captains making between $160,000 and $200,000 a year, so there is the potential to make a good salary, but don't have your expectations too high for the first couple of years.

bafanguy

11th Mar 2017, 20:40

ra4000

11th Mar 2017, 23:54

ra4000,

You list your locale as Italy but didn't provide much detail about your protege so it's not clear where he's from. That will be a large detail re flying here. Does he have the legal ability to live/work in the US ? FAA licenses ? Total flight time ?

I live in us and he is American
He got around 3500 total time
Cj's type rating and now the company will send him to a GIV type and sign one year contract. I suggested to go at the regionals. He want to have a career with the majors. Currently his annual salary is $90k,no family

bafanguy

12th Mar 2017, 12:39

ra4000,

Kind of a tough call. While he'd have his choice of regionals if he wanted to go that route, it's hard to say if having time in a regional airplane (and Part 121 experience) vs a G4 would improve his chance at a major. I'm not qualified to have an opinion on that. I know the majors hire corporate pilots but I don't know how many.

I do imagine the paycut at a regional would be painful for a while ! Has he considered places like Frontier and Spirit ?

ra4000

12th Mar 2017, 13:21

I keep telling him, now he can deal with a pay cut, doesn't have any family (no wife no kids). I don't want to see him get stuck in 135.
In a long run 121 is much better

havick

12th Mar 2017, 19:38

I keep telling him, now he can deal with a pay cut, doesn't have any family (no wife no kids). I don't want to see him get stuck in 135.
In a long run 121 is much better

Tell him to goto a wholly owned regional with a flow to mainline. Whether he needs the flow or not is another story but at least he's guaranteed a slot at mainline one way or another.

ra4000

12th Mar 2017, 20:23

Tell him to goto a wholly owned regional with a flow to mainline. Whether he needs the flow or not is another story but at least he's guaranteed a slot at mainline one way or another.

I am with you on that.
I keep telling him.
The obstacle is the salary.
He told me that he got a friend working for 7 years at Envoy, 40k a year and still an FO.
So I would like know what are the actually salaries

bafanguy

12th Mar 2017, 20:33

ra4000,

Your friend may already know this but look here to see regional airline profiles including pay rates. I have no idea how accurate they are:

Regional | AirlinePilotCentral.com (http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/regional)

havick

12th Mar 2017, 22:06

I am with you on that.
I keep telling him.
The obstacle is the salary.
He told me that he got a friend working for 7 years at Envoy, 40k a year and still an FO.
So I would like know what are the actually salaries

If he joins Envoy now he will be a captain in 2 years or less. There was very little hiring done after the current group of captain upgrades going through now, so the date of hire to captain will drop like a rock.

If he's single like you say tell him to man up and do the necessary evil of a wholly owned regional. First year pay is about 60k.

If he tries to stay the corporate route thinking that pic time will get him picked up by a major, then he will watch everyone else that joined a wholly owned pass him by into a mainline legacy. Just tell him to look at the numbers, AA's classes are 70-75% wholly owned flow throughs and almost all of the remainder is military.

UncleRuss

13th Mar 2017, 01:22

Greetings Experts. This is my first post so forgive my ignorance.

A brief background : Me: Australian non-pilot, living in Colombia, married to a Colombian, adopted three Colombian girls. The eldest (who's very smart) has just graduated from H.School at 16, and SHE is fast tracking English now, to then move on to pursue (with our help$$$) her career as a Pilot (Commercial). I started researching forums and found this one with 10 pages of very interesting and useful info. Thank you all, in advance !

But, may I bore you all with several questions ?

1. Now, in the current Trump era, VISAS to enter the USA would seem to be a shot in the dark, moreso if you're from South America. Jerry is ! Or am I wrong and there are ways for flight training students to get in still ?

2. If you could get a (student) visa, where does one look for flight training ? There are so many schools in so many states, and add to that, Universities; with fees ranging from $75000 to well above. We of course have to add housing etc to the costs... Any recommendations ?

3. The growth numbers mentioned in the past posts (2016) showed significant growth numbers for pilots in the years ahead. Is that still foreseen ?

4. If not the USA as the location for flight training, would you recommend Australia or New Zealand ? Being a Australian citizen I "should" be able to get her a visa there (though my own govt is becoming as xenophobic as the US).

5. It's been recommended to us by local AVIANCA pilots, to do the theoretical studies here (good school they say is the AAA in Medellin) in Colombia, then accumulate flying hours in the USA. Does this seem to be an option, experts ?

I'd greatly appreciate ANY suggestions from any and all.

misd-agin

13th Mar 2017, 02:10

Quote:
Originally Posted by havick http://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pprune.org/north-america/573700-us-regional-headhunting-10.html#post9703956)
Tell him to goto a wholly owned regional with a flow to mainline. Whether he needs the flow or not is another story but at least he's guaranteed a slot at mainline one way or another.
I am with you on that.
I keep telling him.
The obstacle is the salary.
He told me that he got a friend working for 7 years at Envoy, 40k a year and still an FO.
So I would like know what are the actually salaries

Single, no kids, no wife? And he's worrying about the pay vs. doing the best step for his career. Why bother trying to help him if he won't help himself?

bafanguy

14th Mar 2017, 11:03

The TP freight feeders are squawking about pilot supply. Not entirely unexpected to see some supply pressure at the entry level considering the amount of hiring further up the chain.

I'm not sure why the military would be in any position to influence the FAA or Congress to act for change on the civilian side (the military cares about the military...not things in the airlines). If the military thinks increasing the civilian supply side available to the airlines will stop the airlines from lusting after the mil pilots (and/or the reverse), they're mistaken. Perhaps I've missed something:

"However, Bernstein believes pressure from the military, which itself is feeling the pilot shortage, could lead Congress to act.

In February, US Air Force general David Goldfein told reporters that military pilots tend to leave for the commercial sector as soon as they reach the 1,500h mark.

'I suspect that if the military keeps up this pressure, Congress will have no choice to act', says Bernstein."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/regional-cargo-airlines-pressured-by-us-pilot-shorta-435110/

bafanguy

16th Mar 2017, 08:59

Update on PSA's effort to get new blood onto the system:

"Dayton, Ohio-based PSA Airlines and Pensacola's SkyWarrior Inc. celebrated the agreement in an announcement at Pensacola International Airport early Wednesday."

"The airline will pay as much as $23,000 to help each of the 15 helicopter pilots the school hopes to train every month, said Greg Sigler, vice president of SkyWarrior Inc."

http://www.pnj.com/story/news/military/2017/03/15/pensacola-skywarrior-inc--flight-school-american-airlines-military-helicopter-pilots-/99208970/

zondaracer

16th Mar 2017, 14:36

Mesa now has a cadet program:
Mesa Air Group (http://www.mesa-air.com/content.aspx?pageID=27594)

Mesa's MEC has filed a lawsuit against Mesa for contract violations concerning new hire bonuses.

bafanguy

10th Apr 2017, 19:39

This doesn't address the pax regionals but the freight feeders are sorta-kinda similar in the grand scheme. A pilot "shortage" is alleged:

Where have all the pilots gone? How a looming shortage may curtail e-commerce | Air Cargo World (http://aircargoworld.com/where-have-all-the-pilots-gone-how-a-looming-shortage-may-curtail-e-commerce/)

bafanguy

14th Apr 2017, 20:54

I'd forgotten all about Key Lime Air (haven't heard them mentioned in ages) but they're looking for people:

https://www.bestaviation.net/jobs/listings/metro-captain-cargo-denver-based-8379/

zondaracer

16th Apr 2017, 05:29

For two years I worked in the same building as Key Lime. They definitely are feeling the hiring crunch but so are many part 135 operations. I wouldn't call them a regional, as their business model is quite different than the 121 regionals but they are definitely struggling to staff all the flying. It doesn't help that they increased their contract to a 2 year commitment.

bafanguy

16th Apr 2017, 10:56

...Key Lime. They definitely are feeling the hiring crunch but so are many part 135 operations. I wouldn't call them a regional...

Z,

Understand. I made the executive decision to thrown some TP feeders/operators into the "regional" discussion since so many of them are headhunting like regionals are.

bafanguy

19th Apr 2017, 07:25

Trans States Airlines is adding military rotor wing pilots to its list of headhunting targets:

http://www.transstates.net/careers/Pages/Rotor-to-Wings.aspx

westhawk

19th Apr 2017, 16:57

I was contacted recently by Horizon Air. $5,000 signing bonus and the contractual FO starting pay. Even as much as I considered it as a way to get current and return to flying, there is just no way I can live on US $2,300 per month! (gross, before taxes) Their solution to the contractual slave-labor wage is the bonus program. While I appreciate the interest, that bonus would have to be more like $25,000 to make any sense at all for me. Perhaps that might happen in the future, but they are not yet that desperate!

bafanguy

20th Apr 2017, 21:22

Air Wisconsin hiring plans and offering:

"Air Wisconsin Airlines Corp. in Appleton is offering hiring bonuses of $33,000 as it seeks to ramp up its pilot ranks to fulfill new business as a regional carrier for United Airlines."

https://www.pilotcareercentre.com/Aviation-Pilot-Recruitment-News-Item/7468/Air-Wisconsin-hiring-more-than-400-pilots-as-it-returns-to-United-Express

ExDubai

20th Apr 2017, 22:51

MarkerInbound

20th Apr 2017, 23:19

Endeavor's pay is 27k a year ($30x75x12). Everything else is bonus and per diem.

Envoy's pay is bit better, 34,200 ($38x75x12). Not sure if they're counting per diem to get to 60k.

bafanguy

21st Apr 2017, 20:19

Set the hook while they're young....Envoy and Auburn University:

Envoy Signs Auburn University as Cadet Program Partner (http://aviationtribune.com/training/envoy-signs-auburn-university-cadet-program-partner/)

bafanguy

2nd May 2017, 10:18

So, Republic will increase fleet size 10% this year ? Will headhunting be required ? But the shortage...

https://centreforaviation.com/news/republic-airways-holdings-to-expand-fleet-by-10-in-2017-streamlined-around-single-fleet-type-668353

zondaracer

2nd May 2017, 16:11

Republic won't have problem finding pilots. They have a good signing bonus, highest first year pay, strong new contract, just got out of bankruptcy, all E170/175 fleet and they own most of the planes, upgrade time is dropping and only being helped with the addition of 6 E170s (Delta owned and transferred from Compass), 12 E175s (United owned), and the return to the line of 6 Ejets on the American side (were parked during the bankruptcy).

bafanguy

2nd May 2017, 20:37

Republic won't have problem finding pilots.

Yep, that'd be my guess too. The wheels just continue turning despite predictions of the world ending. Kinda interesting.

Of course there's always this option: MORE AUSSIES !!!! ;-)))

Send a boat Down There and get a bunch more.

zondaracer

2nd May 2017, 21:11

The real shortage hasn't hit yet. It has been a pay shortage, and now that pay at the entry level has increased, lots of guys have come out of the woodwork. Also, I believe that all this advertising of a pilot shortage has been motivating young people to get into aviation. I know guys going from 0hours to right seat at a part 121 company in under 2.5 years right now.

The name is Porter

3rd May 2017, 12:19

Of course there's always this option: MORE AUSSIES !!!! ;-)))

Be careful bafan, you don't want to get the whinging ones :}

The next one heading over there is a good bloke, a little bit nuts, but a good bloke :ok:

bafanguy

3rd May 2017, 13:07

Be careful bafan, you don't want to get the whinging ones

People who don't whinge can't be airline pilots ! I think it's an FAR or something...

I'll send you a PM.

boofhead

3rd May 2017, 17:06

FAA Data Shows Airline-Ready U.S. Pilot Numbers Tumbling

Certification changes have in part created far-reaching effects.

Recent data indicates that pilot certification changes have had far-reaching effects on pilot certification levels for commercial and ATP pilots.

Following the FAA's 2013 change in certification requirements for becoming an ATP-rated pilot, a requirement for hiring by Part 121 carriers, FAA data shows the number of ATP practical tests being administered in the United States is declining, following two years of declining numbers of applicants for the ATP knowledge exam. ATP numbers peaked in 2016 at over 8,000 certificate issuances. If the current monthly trend continues this year, that number is expected to reach only about 3,300.

Additionally, the overall number of pilots earning commercial multi-engine certificates has remained flat while the percentage of those tests being completed by U.S. pilots has declined significantly. In 2007, fully two-thirds of commercial multi-engine certificates went to U.S. citizens. By the end of last year, U.S. citizens earned slightly less than half the multi-engine commercial certificates issued in this country.
While the number of non-U.S. pilots training in flight schools here is increasing, most non-U.S. pilot graduates eventually depart for cockpit careers in other parts of the world, making them unavailable to fill any U.S. commercial pilot positions. These students provide valuable flight time to U.S. instructors employed at flight schools, experience that will eventually lead them to qualify for their own ATP certificate and feed the pilot demands here in the states, but with fewer U.S. commercial qualified pilots, the overall number available for airline employment will likely decline.

These numbers indicate that flight departments not already experiencing a shortage of pilots are going to begin seeing one in the near future.

FAA Data Shows Airline-Ready U.S. Pilot Numbers Tumbling | Flying Magazine (http://www.flyingmag.com/faa-data-shows-airline-ready-us-pilots-numbers-tumbling)

ps I am Australian, and the last pilot I employed to fly for the company in the US I work for was a Kiwi. Why? No Americans who have the qualifications for this job are available ( I need single pilot IFR Multi engine turbine pilots who have at least 4000 hours and practically everyone with those qualifications has been taken by the airline/cargo carriers already). I have been working with these problems of the pilot shortage (yes, it is real and yes, it is due to the FAA regulatory change in 2013) for years and I see it going on for at least 8 years even if the 1500 hour/ATP rule was cancelled today because it will take that long for a prospective newbie to be able to do the job. I forecast that within a few years, the accents you hear on the radios of US Regional and Mainline carriers will be foreign. If you have trouble understanding a Korean pilot speaking English now, don't worry, you will get used to it.

bafanguy

5th May 2017, 10:22

No Americans who have the qualifications for this job are available ( I need single pilot IFR Multi engine turbine pilots who have at least 4000 hours and practically everyone with those qualifications has been taken by the airline/cargo carriers already). I have been working with these problems of the pilot shortage...

Boof,

What's the fix for this ?

boofhead

5th May 2017, 14:54

bafanguy

5th May 2017, 16:13

Air Wisconsin update:

Air Wisconsin Announces Enhanced Industry-Leading Pilot Hiring Incentives (http://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/12332052/air-wisconsin-announces-enhanced-industry-leading-pilot-hiring-incentives)

bafanguy

5th May 2017, 16:18

Change the stupid 1500 hour/ATP rule to something closer to what was required before...

Boof,

I'll agree with that but would it alleviate the issue you have with the unavailable supply of "...single pilot IFR Multi engine turbine pilots who have at least 4000 hours..." for your operation ?

Did your recent Kiwi hire have a green card or did you assist him in the visa process ?

boofhead

11th May 2017, 20:56

Boof,

I'll agree with that but would it alleviate the issue you have with the unavailable supply of "...single pilot IFR Multi engine turbine pilots who have at least 4000 hours..." for your operation ?

Did your recent Kiwi hire have a green card or did you assist him in the visa process ?

He has a green card, luckily. We are teaching him how to talk proper.

NikB

12th May 2017, 02:11

4runner

12th May 2017, 03:23

Change the stupid 1500 hour/ATP rule to something closer to what was required before so that youngsters will be motivated to enter the profession again. Wait 8 to 10 years and the problem will fix itself.

You have a low paid operation. There's almost always been a 1500 minimum. Ether officially or unofficially. Stop blaming Faa ATP mins for your failure to recruit talent. Try paying more. You've been called out for this on another forum.

bafanguy

12th May 2017, 14:08

He has a green card, luckily. We are teaching him how to talk proper.

Just enroll him in something like this:

ESL: English as a Second Language - Free English learning resources (http://www.rong-chang.com/)

atpcliff

13th May 2017, 16:22

Canada has Developing pilot shortage...

MungoP

13th May 2017, 19:58

Personally I've never considered the fact that the FO having low hrs was a major safety concern.. everyone has to learn their skills and gather experience. My concern was the quality of their training with LoCo regional operators and the fact that the pilot in the left seat may have minimal command experience. By the time that many 'captains' have acquired sufficient experience they make a career move away from the regionals.
Having said that, when we consider the environment that regional turboprop crews operate within, small under equipped airports, hostile terrain, lower altitude weather patterns added to the number of sectors flown on a typical day and to the basic accommodation to be expected away from base I'd say that the safety record is on the whole pretty creditable. Yes we can point to Buffalo and a couple of other tragic events but we're not short of major accidents involving highly experienced, highly paid crews of major airlines where the crews performance can only be described as downright appalling.
I would prefer that the focus was less on minimal FO experience and greater monitoring of performance and qualifications for sitting in the left seat.

4runner

13th May 2017, 20:21

havick

14th May 2017, 03:30

How 'bout hiring some Canadians??? The US airlines could easily end their "shortage" if they opened up to foreign pilots. I'm sure however that has to do more with US immigration policy, rather than airlines not wanting foreigners.

There is no shortage, just a shortage of money. Plenty of guys and girls willing to jump back in the cockpit when the wages increase.

bafanguy

19th May 2017, 13:32

Another college-regional airline partnership:

Dayton airline +Purdue launch training partnership | AviationPros.com (http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12336249/dayton-airline-purdue-launch-training-partnership)

Actually, I need to stand corrected. This agreement is with Purdue Aviation:

http://www.purdueaviationllc.com/about-us

bafanguy

2nd Jun 2017, 19:57

Looks like Expressjet is offering sign-on bonuses:

ExpressJet Airlines » Pilots (http://www.expressjet.com/careers/pilots/)

They're also offering $8500 retention bonuses for existing FOs.

havick

2nd Jun 2017, 21:58

Looks like Expressjet is offering sign-on bonuses:

ExpressJet Airlines » Pilots (http://www.expressjet.com/careers/pilots/)

They're also offering $8500 retention bonuses for existing FOs.

Looks like Skywest is bleeding expressjet of flying and AA is handing expressjets flying over to the wholly owned carriers.

Better off going to a wholly owned carrier whether it's AA or delta

bafanguy

2nd Jun 2017, 22:34

XJT is whistlin' up the south end of a northbound goat.

zondaracer

3rd Jun 2017, 15:11

Looks like Skywest is bleeding expressjet of flying and AA is handing expressjets flying over to the wholly owned carriers.

Better off going to a wholly owned carrier whether it's AA or delta

SkyWest has gained a lot of AA flying recently. SkyWest actually does more AA departures out of ORD than United departures for the first time in their history. Lots of interesting shifting of flying going on.

Expressjet is shrinking rapidly, and the retention bonuses are to keep the flying staffed, because nobody wants to go to a shrinking airline with long upgrades in this hiring environment.

Right now, wholly owned regionals look good, but don't forget what happened to Comair.

bafanguy

30th Jun 2017, 15:32

Things at Horizon Air ?:

"Sprague said an encouraging sign is that Horizon’s new-hire pilot classes — which provide training on the planes they’ll fly — are full for June and July, with 30 trainees passing through each of those months."

"So the selective cancellations now planned are temporary, he said, 'while we build the staffing back up to where we think it needs to be.' ”

Horizon Air cutting hundreds of flights this summer due to pilot shortage | The Seattle Times (http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/horizon-air-cutting-hundreds-of-flights-this-summer-due-to-pilot-shortage/)

bafanguy

24th Jul 2017, 21:52

A bit more from Horizon:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/horizon-chief-calls-schedule-cuts-painful-setback-439607/

bafanguy

25th Jul 2017, 10:48

A buddy sent me the linked article below with a bit more info on Horizon. Without more details, it’s hard to know what’s what. It seems like a real Hail Mary Pass but at least creative. I don’t see what’s in it for the “major international airline” (Guessing it’s not European) which likely has its own cadre of low-time pilots who need the experience:

“Haugaard outlined another workaround to the U.S. rule that Horizon is considering.

He said Alaska Air is in discussion with “a major international airline” about a plan to have prospective pilots go overseas, “operating under different rules,” and build up their 1,500 flight hours flying for the foreign airline in a Bombardier Q300 turboprop, an earlier variant of the Q400, then returning to the U.S. to fly for Horizon.”

?A painful and frustrating experience?: Horizon Air scheduling havoc will continue into the fall | The Seattle Times (http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/horizon-air-scheduling-havoc-will-continue-into-the-fall/)

zondaracer

26th Jul 2017, 03:50

SkyWest is pulling 6 CRJ700s out of storage between now and December, already painted in Alaska colors. These have been at the maintenance facility in Tucson and were flying under the Alaska contract before the E175s came online. Looks like they still have some use for them.

bafanguy

27th Jul 2017, 20:37

This whole Horizon thing is pretty entertaining. Can't wait to see how it turns out.

So, they're "in discussion" about where to send a pilot demographic deemed a threat to safety by FAA and not allowed in an airline cockpit and propose outsourcing the threat to “a major international airline” until the threat has been neutralized ?

[OK...I'm just being a smartazz and joking about that...if they can do that I say go for it !]

I looked around for a “a major international airline” that operates the Q300 in sufficient numbers to absorb a flow of low time US pilots for a couple of years to get them from whatever total flight time they start with to 1500 hours (while not depriving their own nationals of that flight time). Couldn't find one.

Creative idea but it seems to be a long shot. It's fun to watch. ;-)))

bafanguy

1st Aug 2017, 19:20

A little new info on GoJet Airlines:

"GoJet has entered into a Pilot Pathway Program with Airbus operator Spirit Airlines that will guarantee GoJet pilots a First Officer position at Spirit in as little as two years. GoJet pilots who are accepted into the Pathway Program will be eligible to transition to Spirit after two years of service."

GoJet Airlines Announces Pilot Pathway Program with Spirit Airlines (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/north-america/gojet-airlines-announces-pilot-pathway-program-spirit-airlines/)

http://www.gojetairlines.com/careers/pages/pilots.aspx

bafanguy

4th Aug 2017, 11:02

From Commutair:

Pilots | CommutAir (http://www.flycommutair.com/careers/pilots)

They mention they'll accept the E-3 visa.

bafanguy

6th Aug 2017, 21:06

New VP Flt OPs @ Horizon. Interesting comment about his new role. I wonder what he's going to do that hasn't already been done:

"His vast industry knowledge will strengthen our efforts to hire and retain the best pilots and position the company for success for years to come."

Horizon Air names new vice president flight operations and new vice president of finance and planning (http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12357440/horizon-air-names-new-vice-president-flight-operations-and-new-vice-president-of-finance-and-planning)

atpcliff

6th Aug 2017, 23:34

If he understands the developing tsunami of a Pilot Shortage, then he may have a chance at helping Alaska Air and Horizon. If he doesn't, he'll be useless.

atpcliff

6th Aug 2017, 23:35

One key to the pilot shortage is electric airplanes. If they can build an electric trainer, it will cut the cost of the aircraft used in training by about 50%. They are trying, and their are at least 3 prototypes of electric trainers being developed.

pa44hk

7th Aug 2017, 00:23

Does anybody know if guys on E-3s are eligible for the signing bonus? Also can you get command on a E-3 or is it right seat only? Thanks

bafanguy

8th Aug 2017, 12:38

Does anybody know if guys on E-3s are eligible for the signing bonus? Also can you get command on a E-3 or is it right seat only?

pa44hk,

Good questions. I can only guess but can't see any reason why an E3er wouldn't get the same financial deal and upgrade situation as everyone else. The question I have is how the E3 person would be handled by those regionals with a flow-up to mainline if/when he got that far. Having a green card answers that question.

The E3 is renewable, right ?

[Too early to factor in the latest "proposed" legislation re immigration...it's a looooong way from being the Law of the Land]

havick

8th Aug 2017, 13:06

pa44hk,

Good questions. I can only guess but can't see any reason why an E3er wouldn't get the same financial deal and upgrade situation as everyone else. The question I have is how the E3 person would be handled by those regionals with a flow-up to mainline if/when he got that far. Having a green card answers that question.

The E3 is renewable, right ?

[Too early to factor in the latest "proposed" legislation re immigration...it's a looooong way from being the Law of the Land]

E3's can renew their visa every two years.

E3's uograde just like anyone else.

E3's get the signing bonus like everyone else.

E3's probably won't be able to flow to mainline, will that change, who knows but most likely not.

E3's going to regionals in the USA will simply be using them as s stepping stone for quick jet and jet pic hours that would have taken 5 times as long to get the same experience in Australia if at all.

bafanguy

8th Aug 2017, 19:51

Reincarnation of Midwest Express with CRJs ? Not much detail given:

Midwest Express (http://www.flymidwestexpress.com/)

I suppose some headhunting would result from such a rebirth.

Here's a bit of history. Rebirth seems like a real long shot...gutsy move... but I wish them well:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2017/08/09/effort-underway-bring-back-midwest-express-airlines/552399001/

umop apisdn

9th Aug 2017, 02:14

I'm approaching ATP minimums and would like to apply as an Australian under an E3 visa for a regional.

My emailing efforts have confirmed that most of the regionals will sponsor an E3, except for Envoy who said that they are not, which sucks because they seem pretty good.

Considering I can pretty much go anywhere, and don't have ties to any particular area, what would be a recommended base and a recommended regional?

I am looking most heavily at Piedmont and Air Wisconsin, but truthfully do not have much of an idea.

Another question, if I was to submit an application slightly below the minimums, would it still be considered? I will need to buy myself maybe 5 - 8 hours of twin time just to tick that box, but ideally would have liked to have passed an interview and gotten a class date, visa, license verification and everything else first.

Some say the 25 twin hours is enough, because I can make up the rest in a simulator, but I didn't expect an endorsement to last an extra 25 hours to meet that requirement.

Any advice is super appreciated :)

bafanguy

9th Aug 2017, 07:10

umop apisdn,

Commutair says you can apply up to 6 months before meeting min quals. I don't know how they compare to the rest of the bunch. Since they're all relatively close in quality, maybe the one offering less expensive places to live ? The big cities in the NE USA will be more expensive.

But you're so close to mins anyway maybe it doesn't matter. Just apply to all of 'em and update regularly ?

Pilots | CommutAir (http://www.flycommutair.com/careers/pilots)

bafanguy

9th Aug 2017, 08:09

My emailing efforts have confirmed that most of the regionals will sponsor an E3...

umop apisdn,

Just for general information purposes, when you say "sponsor" do you mean accept an E3 visa holder as an applicant...or give administrative help to an applicant in securing an E3 visa ? There's a pretty big difference.

wishiwasupthere

9th Aug 2017, 08:53

If they're willing to accept an E3 applicant, the employer has to give administrative assistance, in that they need to complete the Labor Condition Application.

bafanguy

15th Aug 2017, 19:56

Interesting article with quite a bit about Mesa. I didn't know what is said here about Mesa's overseas recruiting efforts. The Aussie connection is known but didn't know about South America and the Middle East:

"Where U.S.-trained pilots with 350 flying hours’ experience flock from the U.S. to find employment as first officers with the airlines of other countries that require only limited flying experience, Mesa has established pilot-recruiting offices in other countries. The offices recruit first officers from South America and Australia whose citizens can fulfill official requirements for U.S. working visas relatively easily—and the Middle East, where pilots may qualify for refugee status in the U.S. Recently Mesa has had success in recruiting pilots from all three areas, and pilots from other countries now represent a double-digit percentage of its total pilot complement."

U.S. Regionals Intensify Efforts To Combat Pilot Supply Dilemma | Air Transport News: Aviation International News (http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2017-08-15/us-regionals-intensify-efforts-combat-pilot-supply-dilemma)

Also are "...U.S.-trained pilots with 350 flying hours’ experience flock[ing] from the U.S. to find employment as first officers with the airlines of other countries..." ?

If they are what countries are taking them ? If he's talking about foreign nationals who train in the US then return to their home country, his point is not germane.

Hagop

16th Aug 2017, 12:50

...still single

16th Aug 2017, 16:33

Hello,

A bit off topic but why is it that I'm seeing pilots with 1,500 hours of multi-engine turbo-prop time applying to the regionals? knowing that most of the majors have 1,500 multi turbo-prop time as a minimum requirement!

Hagop

Majors are hiring people with 5-6 thousand hours or more total time and a good chunk of turbine PIC time.
If the majors were scooping people up with 1,500 hours of turbine time, don't you think we'd all be at the majors?

zondaracer

16th Aug 2017, 20:19

Hello,

A bit off topic but why is it that I'm seeing pilots with 1,500 hours of multi-engine turbo-prop time applying to the regionals? knowing that most of the majors have 1,500 multi turbo-prop time as a minimum requirement!

Hagop
There is a gap between "minimum" and "competitive." Most of the guys getting hired with 1500 hours of turboprop time at the majors are military pilots, because they get a conversion factor for their hours and their experience is highly valued. A civilian off the street hire starts to get competitive around the 4000 hour total time mark (guys are getting hired with less, but also with lots more).

bafanguy

17th Aug 2017, 08:22

Hello,

A bit off topic but why is it that I'm seeing pilots with 1,500 hours of multi-engine turbo-prop time applying to the regionals? knowing that most of the majors have 1,500 multi turbo-prop time as a minimum requirement!

Hagop

To add just a little bit to what Zonda and still single said, not only does it take very high quals to get hired at the legacy level here (pax or freight), there are untold numbers of people with 5,000+ hours, turbine PIC, college degree, clean record, several type ratings, Part 121 experience, training/check airman experience...every square filled...and they can't even get an interview !!

Can't get hired until you get an interview...and then the interview success rate comes into play varying between 25-70% from the few carriers when there's data available. Airlines can afford to be fussy (not that their version of "fussy" always makes sense...it quickly gets pretty subjective).

People just don't understand how flush we are with pilots here.