US Regional Headhunting

[Hagop]

It seems things are a bit different in the states. In the Middle East/Europe 2,000 hours in a turbine aircraft above 20 tons will ensure a safe passage towards the majors. Even in Canada these days, I've been seeing people getting hired by the majors at 2,500 turboprop time (not PIC), it just seems that things are a bit better in the white North; not the pay though :=


bafanguy,

You had to put an "attention to all student pilots, dangerous post read at your own discretion" sign at the top of your post... discouraging and somewhat unrealistic stuff indeed. 5000 hours turbine PIC, college degree, clean record, and no interview? I'm sure no one will stay and wait so long for an interview if it really was the case... Asia and the Middle East are in constant need for such pilots, the pay is relatively good.

[bafanguy]

I'm sure no one will stay and wait so long for an interview if it really was the case...

Actually they will...and it is...

[bafanguy]

A bit of Compass info dated today. That referral bonus might provide a little incentive for the Compass troops to run out and shake the bushes:


"...Compass pilots will soon have the opportunity to earn a referral bonus of up to $10,000 for each successful pilot they refer to the company."

Compass Airlines Raises First Year Pilot Pay to $41.00 per Flight Hour (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/compass-airlines-raises-first-year-pilot-pay-to-4100-per-flight-hour-300507334.html?tc=eml_cleartime)

[havick]

A bit of Compass info dated today. That referral bonus might provide a little incentive for the Compass troops to run out and shake the bushes:


"...Compass pilots will soon have the opportunity to earn a referral bonus of up to $10,000 for each successful pilot they refer to the company."

Compass Airlines Raises First Year Pilot Pay to $41.00 per Flight Hour (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/compass-airlines-raises-first-year-pilot-pay-to-4100-per-flight-hour-300507334.html?tc=eml_cleartime)

The issue regionals are now having (at least at Envoy) is that there are now a considerable amount of FO's bypassing upgrade because it's not financially worth the QOL hit. CA seats are going unfilled on vacancy bids due to lack of FO's wanting to upgrade and/or bypassing.

They're increasing FO pay like crazy but captain pay at most regionals hasn't been touched.

[galaxy flyer]

Isn't upgrade mandatory at some point? It was in old contracts, usually something like "upgrade within 12-24 months of the upgrade of a junior in-base pilot".

GF

[havick]

Isn't upgrade mandatory at some point? It was in old contracts, usually something like "upgrade within 12-24 months of the upgrade of a junior in-base pilot".

GF

Nope they just cap their pay if they don't upgrade.

[bafanguy]

The issue regionals are now having (at least at Envoy) is that there are now a considerable amount of FO's bypassing upgrade because it's not financially worth the QOL hit.

havick,

I understand not wanting to take the QOL hit but are the FOs bypassing upgrade those who already have the turbine PIC square filled ? While it's "possible" to get hired at a non-regional career spot without it, wouldn't those aspiring to move on want to have every asset they can considering how capricious that game is ?

[bafanguy]

Isn't upgrade mandatory at some point? It was in old contracts, usually something like "upgrade within 12-24 months of the upgrade of a junior in-base pilot".

GF

GF,

That rings a faint bell as an AA thing. I think I remember my AA buddies mentioning something about that but it was long ago. No telling what they're doing these days. I'd be philosophically opposed to something like that.

[havick]

GF,

That rings a faint bell as an AA thing. I think I remember my AA buddies mentioning something about that but it was long ago. No telling what they're doing these days. I'd be philosophically opposed to something like that.

The up or out of the old days are gone across the board.

[bafanguy]

PenAir doesn't make the news very often but it sounds like things are getting tough on the pilot front. Recruiting might be difficult if they're recruiting at all. The pilot ad on their website is a year old:

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/59142-penair-hit-by-pilot-exodus-operations-in-jeopardy

[atpcliff]

There are a substantial number of pilots hired at various carriers beyond the regionals with 0 turbine PIC, including the Big6. My airline, Atlas, used to require 1000PICJet. Now the lowest mins are 0 turbine and 0 PIC.

[bafanguy]

Pen Air ad dated today:

https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/9267.html

[bafanguy]

Compass Airlines has added a $17500 sign on bonus:

"Compass Airlines First Officers can now earn up to $58,500 during their first year with the airline, thanks to a new $17,500 signing bonus. The $17,500 bonus will be paid in three increments over a pilot's first year of service. The new signing bonus is in addition to a recent pay hike for First Officers, which raised first year pay to $41.00, the highest in the regional airline industry."


Compass Airlines Rolls Out $17,500 First Officer Signing Bonus (http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12366027/compass-airlines-rolls-out-17500-first-officer-signing-bonus)

[zondaracer]

The last new hire bonus at compass was considered against the pilot contract and the union got it shot down. Their union is attempting to remove the new hire bonus again unless all pilots on property get the same bonus.

[A Squared]

The last new hire bonus at compass was considered against the pilot contract and the union got it shot down. Their union is attempting to remove the new hire bonus again unless all pilots on property get the same bonus.


I can sympathize with that to a point. I wouldn't much care for my employer paying new hires more than they were paying me. On the other hand, those same unions had no issue with the reverse; instituting a lower "B scale" for people hired after a certain date.

[semperfubar]

Hello,

I have a question, I noticed that a couple of regional airlines have in the requirements a “Valid Passport or E-3 Visa”, Do regionals sponsor other types of visas? Such as the USA-Chile free trade work visa called H1B1 (not the same as an H1B), I am close to 1500hrs and have an FAA COM/MULTI/IFR and a Chilean COM/IFR.

Thank you for your time

David

[bafanguy]

The Pen Air ad appeared again yesterday. Maybe instead of this:

"$5000 hiring bonus or ATP-CTP course paid by PenAir"

They should try this ?:

$5000 hiring bonus [AND] ATP-CTP course paid by PenAir

[bafanguy]

Saw this statement re Compass Airlines on another av website. Sort of reverse head hunting...sorta ? Maybe in-house head hunting ? A sign of something ? :

The company is looking for captains to volunteer to become right seat qualified. Also to note... "In addition...all upgrade candidates will remain right-seat qualified"

They're soliciting E3s:

http://www.compassairline.com/careers/Pages/E-3-Visa-Holders.aspx

[zondaracer]

Compass messed up their staffing. They lost 6 airplanes earlier this year and stopped upgrade classes and new hire classes. Now they are hiring and upgrading again but have had trouble getting more than 3 people to show up to a new hire class and lots of prospective new hires have been spooked. They upgraded captains. They are short on captains but even more short on FO's. They now have a new hire bonus (which is being contested by the union by the way), so the next two classes apparently have plenty of new hires but it will be a while before they are on the line.

[bombinha]

There is no shortage, just a shortage of money. Plenty of guys and girls willing to jump back in the cockpit when the wages increase.

Very true. Plus if you move from one airline to another you will have to start on year 1 again. If you already on 12 year pay or flying overseas why would you go back to fly year 1 for pennies on the dollar having tons of experience on your pocket???

[bafanguy]

A cadet program from PSA:

Sinclair to help train pilots for PSA airlines with new cadet program (http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12370924/sinclair-to-help-train-pilots-for-psa-airlines-with-new-cadet-program)

[zondaracer]

SkyWest has invested in a flight school in Arizona. They are advertising 0- SkyWest FO in 24 months.

http://www.flyaeroguard.com

Website isn't finished yet.

[bafanguy]

SkyWest has invested in a flight school in Arizona.

Any scuttlebutt about what SKW's level of investment is ?

[bafanguy]

So, Horizon is getting a lot of media attention lately as the poster child for the "shortage". What became of their effort announced in July to send candidates to "a major international airline" for experience and grooming ? It was a rather bold statement...with no follow up:

"He said Alaska Air is in discussion with “a major international airline” about a plan to have prospective pilots go overseas, “operating under different rules,” and build up their 1,500 flight hours flying for the foreign airline in a Bombardier Q300 turboprop, an earlier variant of the Q400, then returning to the U.S. to fly for Horizon."

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/horizon-air-scheduling-havoc-will-continue-into-the-fall/

[bafanguy]

A bit more lining up of resources in the regional world:



Envoy Signs CAE as Official Cadet Program Partner (http://aviationtribune.com/training/envoy-signs-cae-official-cadet-program-partner/)

[zondaracer]

http://bountifulflight.com/training/skywest-bflt

[bafanguy]

[I have no connection with or financial interest in this website or company. Just thought it might be of interest to some "regional" type candidates looking for a way to make contact with employers]

FYI:

https://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/aero-crew-solutions-free-virtual-pilot-job-fair.253436/

[zondaracer]

SkyWest is now offering a leave of absence program for current employees. Employees can take a leave of absence and attend pilot training at a flight school training partner. The employee will attend flight school and then work as a pilot building up to 1500 hours. Once the employee reaches this milestone, they will start flying at SkyWest as a pilot and retain their original hire date for benefits. Additionally, employees will receive $12,000 in tuition reimbursement from SkyWest.

[zondaracer]

Delta Air Lines is now exploring a program where employees with 5 years of service, a private pilot certificate, and 100 hours of flight time can take a leave of absence to complete their commercial pilot certificate and build time towards an ATP and return to Delta as an airline pilot.

[bafanguy]

Delta Air Lines is now exploring a program where employees with 5 years of service, a private pilot certificate, and 100 hours of flight time can take a leave of absence to complete their commercial pilot certificate and build time towards an ATP and return to Delta as an airline pilot.

Yep...that's REALLY an odd move for a company the scale of DL. :confused:

[skidbuggy]

There's also Bluejet who turns grocery clerks into airline pilots too....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-06/jetblue-to-expand-program-that-turns-grocery-clerks-into-pilots

"clean up on runway four"

"price check on seat 13F"

[bafanguy]

Horizon Air Update:

See ? It's all gonna work out :ok:

“Horizon Air Chief Executive Dave Campbell, also on the conference call, said that though he's now hiring about 30 pilots a month, 'it's going to take us another 90 days to really catch up on the backlog of training' of newly hired pilots.

'It's really now about catching up on the training,' Campbell said.

In an internal message to Horizon Air employees Wednesday, also obtained by The Times, Campbell said the airline is on track to meet its 2017 hiring goal of 300 pilots and will double the size of its pilot training department.”

Alaska Air stock falls sharply on difficulties with Virgin, Horizon Air (http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12376952/alaska-air-stock-falls-sharply-on-difficulties-with-virgin-horizon-air)

[RHS]

I was raised in the states, but my Dad never applied for us all to get permanent residency (despite having correct visas) at the time. I'm desperate to come "home".

Now working for a major international legacy, thousands of turbine hours, happy to come and do my time, what do you think the chances of regionals opening up for Europeans? (I know this is a delicate topic, not looking to come in and undercut US pilots here)

[bafanguy]

I was raised in the states, but my Dad never applied for us all to get permanent residency (despite having correct visas) at the time. I'm desperate to come "home".

RHS,

Perhaps a chat with a US immigration lawyer to assess your chances ? Not sure how one does that from Over There. I assume the US embassy as a starting point would be a waste of time ?

This immigration stuff gets complicated in a hurry.

P.S. FWIW, I've not heard of any US carrier taking Europeans straight off the boat the way they do Aussies. Not saying it hasn't happened somewhere, somehow, but I haven't heard of it.

[bafanguy]

Commutair update. I guess you'd have to get into the fine print to see how good this deal actually is but they're working to attract/retain pilots. As much head "keeping" as head hunting:


CommutAir Extends Captain Pay to First Officers | AviationPros.com (http://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/12378807/commutair-extends-captain-pay-to-first-officers)

[bafanguy]

Little bit of headhunting from Delta's wholly-owned regional, Endeavor. Get 'em while they're young.

This is a bit of a bold statement considering how few Endeavor pilots actually get hired by DL. The contract LOA stipulates interviews...not necessarily hiring:

"Consider this your first “step” to flying at Endeavor, and eventually, Delta Air Lines."


edvstep.com (http://edvstep.com/)

[bafanguy]

A bit more effort by Horizon Air:

“The program has also gotten some help for Horizon Air. The regional airline donated a $10,000 flight simulator to the school last year, and offers $7,500 stipends to 17 students who, when they graduate, will have guaranteed jobs with Horizon.”



CWU pilot program hits a bit of turbulence | Local | yakimaherald.com (http://www.yakimaherald.com/news/local/cwu-pilot-program-hits-a-bit-of-turbulence/article_14063dd2-c2bb-11e7-8df1-37593258a92d.html)

[bafanguy]

For two years I worked in the same building as Key Lime. They definitely are feeling the hiring crunch but so are many part 135 operations.

Speaking of Key Lime, here's their latest offering. :eek: Sure hope a "pay period" is two weeks vs one month:

Pilot-Fixed Wing job at Key Lime Air, Inc. - First Officer (http://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/First+Officer/Denver-Colorado/jobID_422924)

[antoine.]

I was raised in the states, but my Dad never applied for us all to get permanent residency (despite having correct visas) at the time. I'm desperate to come "home".

Now working for a major international legacy, thousands of turbine hours, happy to come and do my time, what do you think the chances of regionals opening up for Europeans? (I know this is a delicate topic, not looking to come in and undercut US pilots here)

Send a mail to Air Wisconsin's recruiters

[bafanguy]

antoine,

Why Air Wisconsin for RHS's particular circumstances ? Is AW cheating on the Aussies and somehow taking non-Aussie expats ? :eek:

[bafanguy]

Not much detail in the article but the DOT is getting involved in the effort to fill the regional ranks. Hard to know just what this means:

"...an innovative research program aimed at supporting the country’s military veterans with airline pilot career preparation and training..."


Regional Airline Association Supports DOT's "Forces to Flyers" Initiative (http://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/12381902/regional-airline-association-supports-dots-forces-to-flyers-initiative)


OK...shoulda consulted The Google since it knows everything so we don't have to. Still not 100% clear on details:

“This is a three-year demonstration program with two main objectives: First, to assess the level of interest among our military veterans in becoming pilots. And second, to help American veterans who are not already military pilots to receive the training they need to become commercial pilots.

After the Department’s Volpe National Transportation Systems Center puts the finishing touches on the design of this program, it will provide financial support for training interested veterans.”

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/forces-flyers

A few more comments from A4A and DL:

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/what-they%E2%80%99re-saying-about-forces-flyers-research-initiative

[bafanguy]

Not anything new in this article about Forces To Flyers, but at the bottom is a link to sign up to receive updates if interested. Look for this at the end:

"Sign up here [Email links icon] to receive updates regarding the Forces to Flyers research initiative."

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-announces-forces-flyers-research-initiative


A bit more info on this program. It appears similar to the GI Bill but the quote below adds details but not enough to fully understand the criteria for entry:

"Aviation analyst Bob Mann of R.W. Mann & Co. expressed skepticism about Forces to Flyers, noting that veterans can already get paid flight training under the GI Bill. This year, veterans can receive up to $13,000 under the Post-9/11 GI Bill to attend a vocational flight school.

In a statement, a DOT spokesman said that the department anticipates that the program will cover training costs beyond what is offered by the GI Bill."


http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Program-will-help-train-veterans-to-combat-pilot-shortage

[bafanguy]

Efforts to get more RW pilots into the regional world. Not enough detail to understand how they're doing it...but they're doin' sumpthin':

"Seeking to permit pilots of military helicopters and tiltrotor craft to claim civilian credit for hours spent behind the controls while in uniform, the agency on Friday formally proposed revising current regulations spelling out experience requirements for new commercial captains and copilots.

The goal is to help alleviate shortages of entry-level pilots, an undersupply that particularly is dogging certain regional carriers."


FAA Tries to Ease Pilots’ Path From Military to Airlines - The Wall Street Journal (http://ereader.wsj.net/publink.php?shareid=1bcb9f883)

Normally, Googling the article title will get to a WSJ link circumventing the pay wall but it didn't work this time.

[Mast Bumper]

Endeavor Air has a new pay scale. Starting Jan 1 2018, new-hire FOs will make $50.16 per hour and there is an additional $10K bonus available. The company also improved benefits.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/endeavor-air-pilots-ratify-contract-extension-that-establishes-a-new-standard-for-pilot-pay-2017-11-22

[bafanguy]

While TP freight feeders aren't technically "regional" airlines, I think their pilot recruitment/retention issues sorta/kinda fit the general entry level headhunting issue. This on FedEx:

Not a lot of detail but a pretty big carrot to dangle to entice people to join FedEx's freight feeder system.

“…FedEx also announced it had signed an agreement to be the launch customer for the new ATR 75-600 production freighter, under which FedEx will purchase 30 of the freighters with options to increase the order to 20 more. The purchases are part of FedEx’s strategy to modernize its feeder fleet and develop a pilot training program…”

"...thanks to a collaborative training program we are planning, will create a reliable pipeline of well-qualified pilot applicants for FedEx Express pilot jobs, leveraging the experience they will gain in our feeder system..."


https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/fedex-signs-on-as-launch-customer-for-cessna-skycourier-408/

[bafanguy]

Pen Air looking for Saab street captains. Ad posted Dec. 6:

https://www.latestpilotjobs.com/jobs/view/id/10748.html

[bafanguy]

Maybe this would help pilot recruiting...maybe not:

"United, which has a minority stake in CommutAir, is the only one of the three largest U.S. carriers that doesn’t own a regional airline outright. That can put United at a disadvantage in recruiting pilots."


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-08/united-is-said-to-mull-investing-in-regional-airline-expressjet

[bafanguy]

This is an interesting turn and encouraging for current (?) and prospective Horizon Air pilots:

"In a new effort to attract and retain pilots at Horizon, management separately announced Monday a new program setting up an easier career path for Horizon pilots to move up to the better-paid jobs at Alaska Airlines.

Pilots joining the program will be offered the opportunity to interview with Alaska early in their career at Horizon, regardless of flight time or experience.

When Alaska has openings, it will hire without any additional interviews from a pool of experienced Horizon pilots in the program whose record at the regional carrier is sufficiently good, with offers based on seniority."

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/horizon-air-ceo-campbell-stepping-down-after-troubled-year/

[bafanguy]

Delta Air Lines is now exploring a program where employees with 5 years of service, a private pilot certificate, and 100 hours of flight time can take a leave of absence to complete their commercial pilot certificate and build time towards an ATP and return to Delta as an airline pilot.

Z,

According to the latest statement, DL has decided to go ahead with this program (along with a couple of other initiatives). Response to the "survey" of current employees was pretty strong. Appears to involve CFIing and time at an unnamed regional.

Details to follow next year.

[bafanguy]

UPS shepherding resources:


“Successful completion of the 12 month UPS mentoring program will result in an interview with UPS Airlines subject to its hiring needs and requirements.”


Ameriflight, UPS Airlines Finalize Phase Two Expansion Of Gateway Program | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/bannertransfer.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=962bd1f2-5932-41fe-b8d0-55f650bf56eb)

[plnplt]

Send a mail to Air Wisconsin's recruiters

Will AW be interested in or assist anyone who doesn’t have the legal right to work in the US?

[bafanguy]

Will AW be interested in or assist anyone who doesn’t have the legal right to work in the US?

Well, you don't indicate what country you're from so it's hard to answer your question.

You can email AW and ask.

And then report back here what you learned.

[bafanguy]

Envoy's latest trolling effort:

Envoy Offers Up to $45,000 Signing Bonus for Experienced Pilots (http://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/12390202/envoy-offers-up-to-45000-signing-bonus-for-experienced-pilots)

Other regionals are also looking for pilots with previous Part 121 experience. The closer applicants are to the 1000 hours Part 121 time, the faster they can be upgraded.

GoJet is even crediting years of service at a previous carrier to THEIR longevity for pay:

"Carry over longevity from another carrier at a rate of 1:1 (for example, a pilot with two years of longevity at another carrier would start at GoJet with two years of longevity)"


http://www.gojetairlines.com/careers/pilots/Pages/Pilot-Careers.aspx

Skywest too:

Industry Experience Credit

"Have experience with an FAR Part 121 Carrier? Upgrade Your Career and get paid for your experience. Join SkyWest’s team of professional aviators and don’t worry about pay – we will start your pay at a year-for-year match! That means that every year you have worked at a FAR Part 121 carrier counts towards your compensation and benefits (up to a 10 year rate)."

http://www.skywest.com/skywest-airline-jobs/career-guides/flight-jobs/

[plnplt]

Well, you don't indicate what country you're from so it's hard to answer your question.

You can email AW and ask.

And then report back here what you learned.

EU Citizen... I doubt I’ll hear back anything positive without legal right to work in the USA.

[bafanguy]

plnplt,

Based on my observations, that's likely the case. Not sure what to recommend beyond contacting and asking. It's easy enough to do and we never know what's going on "behind the curtain".

[bafanguy]

Trans States Latest info. Bolded statement is sorta interesting:

“In addition to having one of the fastest Captain upgrades in the regional airline industry, Trans States provides a number of unique opportunities, including a Seniority Reservation Program that greatly reduces the likelihood of sitting reserve as a First Officer, and an Express Hire Program that allows current and qualified 121 pilots to forego the interview process. “



Trans States Airlines Rolls Out $44,000 Signing Bonus for Pilots (http://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/12391205/trans-states-airlines-rolls-out-44000-signing-bonus-for-pilots)

[chitolin]

EU Citizen... I doubt I’ll hear back anything positive without legal right to work in the USA.

You knew the answer to your question!
Only Australians have it easy with the E-3 Visa.

[bafanguy]

A bit of a rhetorical issue but I'd still like to hear the back story on this rather bold statement from Alaska Air re Horizon pilot headhunting. I've not seen anything about it since its original appearance. If they'd done this, it'd certainly be newsworthy:

"He said Alaska Air is in discussion with “a major international airline” about a plan to have prospective pilots go overseas, “operating under different rules,” and build up their 1,500 flight hours flying for the foreign airline in a Bombardier Q300 turboprop, an earlier variant of the Q400, then returning to the U.S. to fly for Horizon."

http://www.seattletimes.com/business...into-the-fall/

[wishiwasupthere]

Jetstar NZ?

Mind you, they can't attract pilots because they pay peanuts!

[bafanguy]

Jetstar NZ?

Mind you, they can't attract pilots because they pay peanuts!

I'm going to guess the idea died on the vine. Just a bit too..."far out there".

If Horizon had sent a bunch of young pilots to NZ (or any other country), it couldn't be kept a secret.

The Horizon spokesman said they were "...in discussion with...". I'd like to know what foreign carrier would even entertain an idea like this.

[Hagop]

A bit of a rhetorical issue but I'd still like to hear the back story on this rather bold statement from Alaska Air re Horizon pilot headhunting. I've not seen anything about it since its original appearance. If they'd done this, it'd certainly be newsworthy:

"He said Alaska Air is in discussion with “a major international airline” about a plan to have prospective pilots go overseas, “operating under different rules,” and build up their 1,500 flight hours flying for the foreign airline in a Bombardier Q300 turboprop, an earlier variant of the Q400, then returning to the U.S. to fly for Horizon."

http://www.seattletimes.com/business...into-the-fall/

I guess it could be somewhere in Australia or New Zealand, the link is broken by the way.

[bafanguy]

...the link is broken by the way.

Not sure what happened with the link to the article. Maybe Horizon asked the newspaper to take it down ?

At the time it was published, it wasn't a particularly flattering (or hopeful) picture of Horizon's state of affairs.

They've since said recruiting is on schedule to normalcy...more or less...like most regionals. I figured it would.

[galaxy flyer]

Jetstar NZ?

Mind you, they can't attract pilots because they pay peanuts!

Because it’s so much lower cost of living and taxes are near nothing! :}

GF

[bafanguy]

Came across this post re Horizon Air on another forum. It's dated 22Jan18:

"For anyone who was interested in Horizon's RTP (said to be announced "in the coming weeks" back in July, then said to be final in January) here is the latest update.

"Thank you for your email and interest in Horizon Air. We are still in the process of creating a Rotor to Wing program. We do not have an ETA on completion at this time. Please let us know if you would like to be added to the list of people that would like to be contacted once we are ready to launch the program."

Just passing the word along"

[bafanguy]

Most recent offer from GoJet Airlines:


GoJet Airlines Introduces Enhanced Compensation For Pilots | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=f3648b6e-76ba-437f-bf6b-a11d5e7bfab6)

[atpcliff]

While TP freight feeders aren't technically "regional" airlines, I think their pilot recruitment/retention issues sorta/kinda fit the general entry level headhunting issue. This on FedEx:

Not a lot of detail but a pretty big carrot to dangle to entice people to join FedEx's freight feeder system.

“…FedEx also announced it had signed an agreement to be the launch customer for the new ATR 75-600 production freighter, under which FedEx will purchase 30 of the freighters with options to increase the order to 20 more. The purchases are part of FedEx’s strategy to modernize its feeder fleet and develop a pilot training program…”

"...thanks to a collaborative training program we are planning, will create a reliable pipeline of well-qualified pilot applicants for FedEx Express pilot jobs, leveraging the experience they will gain in our feeder system..."


https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/fedex-signs-on-as-launch-customer-for-cessna-skycourier-408/

FedEx is doing the same thing with the new Textron Cessna Cessna SkyCourier. It is a high-wing twin turboprop that will haul 3 ULD containers.

Amazon is also looking at buying these new aircraft.

Textron Aviation unveils new large utility turboprop the Cessna SkyCourier (http://txtav.com/en/newsroom/2017/11/textron-aviation-unveils-new-large-utility-turboprop-the-cessna-skycourier)

[bafanguy]

FedEx is doing the same thing with the new Textron Cessna Cessna SkyCourier.

atpcliff,

Yes, I heard that. While I haven't seen definitive statements from Cessna, I understand they're leaning toward certifying the airplane for single pilot. This raises the question of how to get fresh CPLs into the operation as FOs to get experience to move up through whatever their proposed "farm" system might be.

I doubt FedEx would turn fresh CPLs loose with this airplane. Just speculation on my part.

I bet Cessna would LOVE to see Amazon buy a bunch of these airplanes.

[bafanguy]

Amerifight channels resources. Kinda interesting:

"Participants will begin earning competitive pay six months in and will leave the program debt-free, a rare advantage in the aviation industry."



Ameriflight And Epic Flight Academy Sign Cadet Pathway Program | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/getmorefromann.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=fd8d67f7-0899-4a0c-ada0-5dff076d1536)

[zondaracer]

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/06/metro-state-united-airlines-aviation-program/

[bafanguy]

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/06/metro-state-united-airlines-aviation-program/

Bold. Unless I missed it, they don't explain how they get from fresh CPL to ATP mins to join the affiliated regionals. I don't see that school on the list for r-ATP mins:

“And I think the real key is … when you do your interview with us when you’re a junior in college, you have done your last United interview. Your first and only United interview.”

This can't hurt Metro State's recruiting into the av program.

[A Squared]

Bold. Unless I missed it, they don't explain how they get from fresh CPL to ATP mins to join the affiliated regionals. I don't see that school on the list for r-ATP mins:.

It may be that part of that program whcih isn't mentioned is that the "career path program" includes a period of flight instruction in the university's flight school whcih would make up the difference between Comm. minimums and ATP minimums. Just speculation on my part though.

[zondaracer]

Bold. Unless I missed it, they don't explain how they get from fresh CPL to ATP mins to join the affiliated regionals. I don't see that school on the list for r-ATP mins:

“And I think the real key is … when you do your interview with us when you’re a junior in college, you have done your last United interview. Your first and only United interview.”

This can't hurt Metro State's recruiting into the av program.
Yeah, Metro State doesn’t have any airplanes so they don’t qualify for the r-ATP. All of their students get their ratings at the flight school of their choice. It is kind of a different setup compared to traditional aviation universities.

[zondaracer]

It may be that part of that program whcih isn't mentioned is that the "career path program" includes a period of flight instruction in the university's flight school whcih would make up the difference between Comm. minimums and ATP minimums. Just speculation on my part though.

The University does not have their own flight school. The students get their ratings and then pick their own path to 1500TT.

[bafanguy]

The University does not have their own flight school. The students get their ratings and then pick their own path to 1500TT.

Z,

That's a variation on a theme. So, the university is just all academics.

That UAL interview thing will put 'em on the map. I'd like to see the fine print on that deal.

[havick]

Z,

That's a variation on a theme. So, the university is just all academics.

That UAL interview thing will put 'em on the map. I'd like to see the fine print on that deal.

Looks like they end up at one of their regionals, doesn’t look like a flow agreement like AA.

[bafanguy]

Looks like they end up at one of their regionals, doesn’t look like a flow agreement like AA.

havick,

I guess you'd have to see the fine print on this deal. I can't tell from the article precisely what happens beyond interviewing with UAL as a junior, finding one's own way to 1500 hours and then to an affiliated regional.

These three paragraphs with bolded statements have the ring of a flow but with undefined criteria beyond the regional level. UAL seems to be bypassing the regional interview process but after that, I can't tell what's what. "Your first and only United interview" has a certain implied definition to it:

“The ‘career path program,’ which is being unveiled Tuesday, will create a means for flight officer students at Metro to interview with United as undergraduates, and — if accepted — follow a defined track to one of United’s regional partner airlines.”

“After meeting flight time requirements there, participants can move on to waiting jobs in United cockpits, all within five or seven years of graduation. “

“And I think the real key is … when you do your interview with us when you’re a junior in college, you have done your last United interview. Your first and only United interview.”

[havick]

havick,

I guess you'd have to see the fine print on this deal. I can't tell from the article precisely what happens beyond interviewing with UAL as a junior, finding one's own way to 1500 hours and then to an affiliated regional.

These three paragraphs with bolded statements have the ring of a flow but with undefined criteria beyond the regional level. UAL seems to be bypassing the regional interview process but after that, I can't tell what's what. "Your first and only United interview" has a certain implied definition to it:

“The ‘career path program,’ which is being unveiled Tuesday, will create a means for flight officer students at Metro to interview with United as undergraduates, and — if accepted — follow a defined track to one of United’s regional partner airlines.”

“After meeting flight time requirements there, participants can move on to waiting jobs in United cockpits, all within five or seven years of graduation. “

“And I think the real key is … when you do your interview with us when you’re a junior in college, you have done your last United interview. Your first and only United interview.”

It looks deliberately vague. Looks more like a way to keep their regionals staffed than a means to get candidates in to mainline UAL.

[A Squared]

It looks deliberately vague. Looks more like a way to keep their regionals staffed than a means to get candidates in to mainline UAL.

All of these schemes exist as a way to draw pilots to the major Airline's regional feeders with with a carrot. Delta, United, etc. are not seriously worried about not having qualified applicants, They are, however, concerned about their feeders' ability to staff their airplanes with cheap labor. United and Delta's business model is absolutely dependent on a feeder network operated at rock bottom prices. This is why you have seen in the last 30 years, more and more "mainline" flying transferred to regional feeders, and those partners flying larger and larger airplanes. This is not about supplying pilots to the mainline, this is about trying to entice pilots to work for the feeders without the feeders increasing pay to be competitive in the pilot hiring market.

[havick]

All of these schemes exist as a way to draw pilots to the major Airline's regional feeders with with a carrot. Delta, United, etc. are not seriously worried about not having qualified applicants, They are, however, concerned about their feeders' ability to staff their airplanes with cheap labor. United and Delta's business model is absolutely dependent on a feeder network operated at rock bottom prices. This is why you have seen in the last 30 years, more and more "mainline" flying transferred to regional feeders, and those partners flying larger and larger airplanes. This is not about supplying pilots to the mainline, this is about trying to entice pilots to work for the feeders without the feeders increasing pay to be competitive in the pilot hiring market.

That’s what i was alluding to.

[bafanguy]

A bit more from GoJet Airlines. Can't see a date on it:

Airline Agreements - Arizona Flight Training Center (http://arizonaflighttrainingcenter.com/flight-training/airlines/)

[BDD]

Does this 1 for 1 years of service match go for pay? Say
you have worked as a captain for 20 years for a US airline,
do you go in at 10-year captain pay?

Thanks,

BDD

[bafanguy]

BDD,

Here's the XJT example ( I guess it's in effect). Not sure how much variation there is from one carrier to another or who else might be offering it. Poor 'ol XJT needs all the help it can get:

“The tentative deal would allow pilots to count up to 10 years of previous experience at Federal Aviation Regulation Part 121 carriers toward their tenures for purposes of hourly pay according to the specific equipment and status. That experience would also count toward benefits such as the 401(k) retirement match, defined contributions and vacation accrual.”


https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2017-08-30/expressjet-pilot-leaders-agree-novel-pay-scale-credit-plan

[BDD]

Thanks bafanguy.

Not a bad deal but I'm too old!!!
They might get a few takers.

Thanks again,

BDD

[bafanguy]

BDD,

If you're under 65 you might not be too old. ;)

[zondaracer]

SkyWest just announced a military rotor to fixed wing transition program.

http://bountifulflight.com/training/skywest-bflt-rtp

[bafanguy]

The Army has a good many rotor-wing pilots. Any idea how many are finding their way into the fixed-wing 121 world via programs like this ? I don't hear much said about this source of pilots.

[bafanguy]

Amerifight's recent offering. Smell the desperation ? Sweet...

Pilot-Fixed Wing job at Ameriflight, LLC - Captain, B1900, Hiring Bonuses (http://www.jsfirm.com/job/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/Captain,+B1900,+Hiring+Bonuses/Salt+Lake+City-Utah/jobID_440048)

[havick]

Amerifight's recent offering. Smell the desperation ? Sweet...

Pilot-Fixed Wing job at Ameriflight, LLC - Captain, B1900, Hiring Bonuses (http://www.jsfirm.com/job/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/Captain,+B1900,+Hiring+Bonuses/Salt+Lake+City-Utah/jobID_440048)

Very light on pay if they’re trying to attract 121 guys across.

[bafanguy]

Very light on pay if they’re trying to attract 121 guys across.

Yep, there must be some pressure on that sector of the industry.

[zondaracer]

The Army has a good many rotor-wing pilots. Any idea how many are finding their way into the fixed-wing 121 world via programs like this ? I don't hear much said about this source of pilots.

Quite a few are jumping to the regionals now with these programs. GoJet and TSA have had these programs, and some of the American WO as well. Quite a few Army helicopter pilots do not need the transition programs as well since many get some King Air time or other fixed wing time, but I have a friend in the Army National Guard who has guys call me all the time asking about getting into the regionals and making the transition to fixed wing.

[bafanguy]

Quite a few are jumping to the regionals now with these programs. GoJet and TSA have had these programs, and some of the American WO as well. Quite a few Army helicopter pilots do not need the transition programs as well since many get some King Air time or other fixed wing time, but I have a friend in the Army National Guard who has guys call me all the time asking about getting into the regionals and making the transition to fixed wing.

Z,

I guess that's no surprise these days. I knew the Army had some FW but didn't know what portion of their total pilot cadre actually got FW time.

Sounds like a win-win deal for all concerned.

[bafanguy]

Found this about Air Wisconsin and Canadians. This is the first I've seen on it and their website doesn't mention it. But the original post was a rather definitive statement:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/air-wisconsin/111529-canadian-pilots-awi.html

Upon further digging, this: "...2018 candidates have already been selected...". Do they mean visa candidates ? It'd seem unlikely they mean all people to be hired in 2018:

“We are currently accepting some visas and could possibly offer the required assistant to sponsor your visa. If you need a H1B visa, this is done in April each year. Although our candidates for 2018 have already been selected, to be considered for 2019, please apply between October and December 2018.”


Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis - AVCANADA (http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=122708)

It appears they won't help with FAA licenses the way it's being done for Aussies but isn't there a process that makes TC-FAA conversion a little easier ?:

"2. At time of hire you must possess all FAA certifications and rating required by the FAA to operate as a commercial pilot "

[zondaracer]

The FAA-TC reciprocal agreement just requires getting the medical and taking the knowledge test. No practical test is required.

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-135A.pdf

[bafanguy]

The FAA-TC reciprocal agreement just requires getting the medical and taking the knowledge test. No practical test is required.

Z,

Thanks. I had a dim recollection of some kind of deal like that but hadn't really dug for info.

Sounds pretty easy...all things considered. I tried reading it but felt brain cells imploding in death spasms. Lots of variations on a theme in those 44 pages.

So, here's a question involving a hypothetical young Canadian with ~1500 hours:

Assuming a person without an TCCA ATP, a person with a TCCA CPL/IR can apply for/receive the FAA equivalent via the process and then, if having the flight time totals/breakdown, get the ATP-CTP from AW's program and then jump to the FAA ATP in AW's training program ?

[MarkerInbound]

I don't see the question. If the airline is getting you the visa and you go through the TC-FAA conversion process you would be like anyone else applying for the job. Right to work in the US? Check. Fourteen hundred and ninety hour commercial ME/IR? Check. Good to go.

[bafanguy]

I don't see the question. If the airline is getting you the visa and you go through the TC-FAA conversion process you would be like anyone else applying for the job. Right to work in the US? Check. Fourteen hundred and ninety hour commercial ME/IR? Check. Good to go.

MI,

Well, it's not the best question I've ever asked.:( More rhetorical than inquisitive, I guess.

I was just musing . It's what we do here at Ye Olde Pilot Home.

If a person went for an FAA ATP, he'd have to have that ATP-CTP course:

"4. An applicant for an FAA ATP Certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating after July 31, 2014 must present a graduation certificate from an authorized training provider for the ATP CTP at the time of application for the appropriate FAA ATP knowledge test."

So, if a person with a TCCA ATP wanted to get an FAA ATP but didn't want to cough up $5K for that course, he'd probably just get the FAA CPL and let the airline foot the bill for the course under the Air Wisconsin scenario.

Additional question is how many Canadians have availed themselves of this license pathway at the CPL/ATP level. I looked here for a breakdown and didn't see it addressed. Maybe you can find it:

https://www.faa.gov/data_research/aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics/

[MarkerInbound]

Ah, musing, yes. And Zond left out the ATP-CTP. The FAA created it under pressure from Congress after the Colgan crash in Buffalo. It was easier for them to say everyone must complete it but I think it's a waste of time for military fixed wing pilots and foreign ATPs. It's meant to bridge the knowledge gap between flight instructing in light airplanes and operating transport category jets. So it would be cheaper to just get the FAA commercial and let the regional pay for the CTP and ATP. Not sure if you hold a Canadian ATP if you can back it down and just apply for the FAA commercial.

[bafanguy]

The FAA-TC reciprocal agreement just requires getting the medical and taking the knowledge test. No practical test is required.

So, the US regionals are turning to Canadian pilot supply.

Does this mean there's an Aussie shortage ? ;)

[zondaracer]

Yeah I left out the ATP-CTP. No way around that these days. But in reference to the OP, I had in mind just converting to the Commercial and letting the employer pay for the ATP-CTP.

Interesting times though.

[MarkerInbound]

Yes, if someone just holds a Canadian commercial they can convert it to a FAA with minimal hassle and then have a regional cover the cost of the CTP and ATP.

[bafanguy]

Stumbled around and found this re Air Wisconsin and H1B visas. Looks like 9 pilots in the last two(ish) years but I don't see a country of origin for those 9 people:

Air Wisconsin, Jobs & Salary for Foreign Workers | myvisajobs.com (http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Air-Wisconsin/20095.htm)

[bafanguy]

Compass just sweetened the pot a little bit:

“…the extension includes an agreement to allow new hire First Officers with previous 121 experience to carry over longevity from their previous carrier, as well as the ability to offer new hire pilots a signing bonus.“

Compass Airlines Reaches Agreement with Pilot Union on Two-Year Contract Extension (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/north-america/compass-airlines-reaches-agreement-pilot-union-two-year-contract-extension/)

[bafanguy]

The link lacks a bit of detail and context but would this Horizon Air pathway program compete with AA's three wholly-owneds "flow" arrangements for attracting new blood into Regional World ? :


“If you have your sights set on flying for Alaska, the Pilot Pathways Program makes it a no-hassle proposition. Alaska Airlines commits to hiring at least 30% of its new hires from Horizon Air.”

“Fly with Horizon, working toward Alaska minimums. Alaska will perform quarterly reviews of your performance."

"Once you meet minimums and perform to Alaska’s standards, you’ll be offered a seat with Alaska automatically (in seniority order), and slotted for training.”

https://horizonair-pilot.jobs/pilot-development-program/

[A Squared]

The link lacks a bit of detail and context but would this Horizon Air pathway program compete with AA's three wholly-owneds "flow" arrangements for attracting new blood into Regional World ? :


“If you have your sights set on flying for Alaska, the Pilot Pathways Program makes it a no-hassle proposition. Alaska Airlines commits to hiring at least 30% of its new hires from Horizon Air.”

“Fly with Horizon, working toward Alaska minimums. Alaska will perform quarterly reviews of your performance."

"Once you meet minimums and perform to Alaska’s standards, you’ll be offered a seat with Alaska automatically (in seniority order), and slotted for training.”

https://horizonair-pilot.jobs/pilot-development-program/

I don't know how it compares to other Airlines' programs, but it represents a huge reversal in policy for the Alaska Air Group. There was a time when Alaska would not hire someone employed at Horizon. If you had Alaska as your ultimate career goal, taking a job at Horizon was a kiss of death.

[pilotchute]

The world has changed and some airlines change, some don't. I think what we are seeing is just desperation. Alaska know that if they don't offer pathway from Horizon then Horizon won't get any new hires. If Horizon folds they will have to take regional flying back in house meaning more pilots and bigger wage bill.

[CaptainProp]

Next step FAA licenced pilots from outside NA?

CP

[zondaracer]

Next step FAA licenced pilots from outside NA?

CP

Several regionals have already been hiring large number of Australians on E3 visas.

[bafanguy]

Several regionals have already been hiring large number of Australians on E3 visas.

And a few Canadians sprinkled in for good measure ?

[pilotchute]

Zondaracer,

Less than 100 Australians are flying on E3 visas at US regionals. I hardly call that "large numbers".

[liftman]

hi all, do some regional sponsor European for Visa?

[zondaracer]

Zondaracer,

Less than 100 Australians are flying on E3 visas at US regionals. I hardly call that "large numbers".

It’s all relative. 77 E3 visas at my company in 2017, which probably has the majority of the E3 visa pilots.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

So where would a European passport holder with 5000 hours total 135/145 rating current 61.58 and an FAA ATP be most welcomed stateside?

Which company would be willing to help with Visas and what sort of salary/benefits could one expect?

Always aspired to live and work stateside - seems conditions in NA are slowly making that a possibility...

What chance of a green card?

[bafanguy]

Latest statement from the DOT on their "Forces to Flyers" program to get more pilots in the system. Too early, I guess, to know how many takers they'll get:



https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-announces-solicitation-proposals-flight-schools-part

[zondaracer]

So where would a European passport holder with 5000 hours total 135/145 rating current 61.58 and an FAA ATP be most welcomed stateside?

Which company would be willing to help with Visas and what sort of salary/benefits could one expect?

Always aspired to live and work stateside - seems conditions in NA are slowly making that a possibility...

What chance of a green card?
No chance of a green card unless you apply for the green card lottery and win.

Starting salaries for a regional job around $45,000-$70,000. Salaries at the regionals top out around $130,000, and guys who work the system can $200,000 if they really hustle. Schedules around 11-18 days off, depending on staffing, seniority and how you bid.

[stormfury]

This is an interesting program and could be successful, if done correctly. A wide pool to recruit from, experience in a ‘team’ environment and exposure to structured training and strict adherence to workplace rules.

Although the above pros are overly simplistic, there are no doubt some negatives that will arise as the program matures - interesting times.

Noting the time taken for this to have an impact, I think the next chapter will be 135 operators seeking E3/H1B visas.

[bafanguy]

This is an interesting program and could be successful, if done correctly.

...I think the next chapter will be 135 operators seeking E3/H1B visas.

sf,

Hard to say what this Forces to Flyers program will accomplish. Most likely just another example of the Imperial Federal Government throwing money at a problem and claiming they "solved" it.

Where is this program advertised other than buried in the DOT website ? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else.

Hard to say about the pilot supply for Part 135. Nothing surprises me lately.

[stormfury]

Where is this program advertised other than buried in the DOT website ? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else.

You raise a really good point, this was the first I’d seen of it and tbh there are that many veteran programs out there right now that it’s likely to get lost in the noise. Without someone in the imperial government pushing and promos it there’s a good chance it’ll just wither on the vine.

[bafanguy]

Commutair rotor-FW transition program:

Rotor Transition Program ? Home Page (http://www.flycommutair.com/rotor-transition-program/)

[bafanguy]

Pen Air Saab340 DEC. $10K sign-on bonus:

"Looking for experienced 121 Pilot-In-Command (PIC) for Anchorage base and Boston base. "

Pilot-Fixed Wing job at Peninsula Airways - Captain - SAAB 340 (http://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/Captain+-+SAAB+340/Anchorage-Alaska/jobID_431547)

Pen Air...still in there sluggin" :

http://www.jsfirm.com/job/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/First+Officer+-Saab+2000+or+Saab+340+Pilot/Anchorage-Alaska/jobID_453611

[bafanguy]

I have no affiliation with this company but stumbled across this item about a "virtual" job fair. Not sure how that works but the price is right. Largely regionals participating. Might be a place to get questions answered:




Aero Crew Solutions Pilot Job Fair - powered by vFairs.com (http://aerocrewsolutions.vfairs.com/)

[bafanguy]

FWIW from Mesa:

"... a clear way forward to employment at United Airlines,' said Jonathan Ornstein, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Mesa Airlines."


Mesa Airlines Announces Career Path Program For Pilots With United Airlines | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=8fe9b863-e9be-4757-a638-d1d92d532717)

[zondaracer]

Great Lakes Airlines shut down operations last night at midnight.

End of an era.

https://www.denverpost.com/2018/03/27/great-lakes-airlines-suspends-flights-dia/

http://greatlakesav.com/alerts/Great%20Lakes%20Suspends%20Scheduled%20Turboprop%20Flight%20 Operations.pdf

ADI Aerodynamics will still continue to operate their Great Lakes Jet Expess branded codeshare flights to Pierre and Watertown, SD from Denver.

[bafanguy]

Great Lakes Airlines shut down operations last night at midnight.

End of an era.

Z,

Yep, saw that. Their demise has been predicted for a long time.

Appears there are only ~15 pilots left but it's heartening to see the regionals reach out encouraging them to apply. Perhaps a win-win deal for both parties ?

The lowliness of GL as a company isn't the fault of the pilot group who apparently did some demanding flying.

There's no joy in seeing fellow aviators in dire straits.

[A Squared]

Pen Air Saab340 DEC. $10K sign-on bonus:

"Looking for experienced 121 Pilot-In-Command (PIC) for Anchorage base and Boston base. "

Pilot-Fixed Wing job at Peninsula Airways - Captain - SAAB 340 (http://www.jsfirm.com/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/Captain+-+SAAB+340/Anchorage-Alaska/jobID_431547)

" .... *Competitive salary...."

$68/hr 72hr/month.


When they say "competitive" are they referring to competing with their FO pay scale? I think I've discovered why they don't have a line of well qualified FO's in the pipeline to upgrade.

[ironbutt57]

" .... *Competitive salary...."

$68/hr 72hr/month.


When they say "competitive" are they referring to competing with their FO pay scale? I think I've discovered why they don't have a line of well qualified FO's in the pipeline to upgrade.


competitive with part time stock boy at Walmart

[bafanguy]

Keep those tentacles reaching out :ok::

Maui Now : SkyWest Airlines and Mokulele Announce Pilot Pathway Program (http://mauinow.com/2018/03/29/skywest-airlines-and-mokulele-announce-pilot-pathway-program/)

[bafanguy]

Usually, I skeptically view any info/prognostication made by those with a financial and/or political advantage to having data show one conclusion or another. But this Regional Airline Association forecast has some interesting stuff in it. Worth a gander anyway:

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.raa.org/resource/collection/07BEE467-C910-4C38-A18B-0086D929CE8B/March_Update_03202018_FINAL_(002).pdf

[bafanguy]

Another college pathway program to the regionals:


"Students who have earned their certified flight instructor rating and have been accepted into Piedmont Airlines' cadet program, following an interview process, are eligible to receive tuition reimbursement after the completion of 500 hours of flight time. The program provides a financial incentive for every 100 hours achieved there after until completing the Airline Transport Pilot minimums required. Once a certified flight instructor attains these minimums, he or she will join Piedmont Airlines as a first officer with a guaranteed job at American Airlines in about five years."

https://www.k-state.edu/media/newsreleases/2018-03/piedmont32918.html

[510orbust]

So where would a European passport holder with 5000 hours total 135/145 rating current 61.58 and an FAA ATP be most welcomed stateside?

Which company would be willing to help with Visas and what sort of salary/benefits could one expect?

Always aspired to live and work stateside - seems conditions in NA are slowly making that a possibility...

What chance of a green card?


Unfortunately chances of a green card without family or a wife/fiancee are about 0 percent. I am Canadian by birth lived and flew out of Manchester for many years, last job 737. Met an American girl got engaged and now I have my green card. The process was easy having a fiancee that was American.

Answering your other question, no company will help you in attaining a visa, they are very very strict on this, even the regionals. Just before my green card I was issued a red card which was my work authorization, one regional turned me down with that, another said it was ok. My green card was issued shortly after.

As far as the conversion , for an EASA ATP you will get a great FAA PPL. I was lucky because I also had a Canadian ATP which meant it was a straight conversion ATP for ATP with all ratings carried over and no skills test.

Many jobs in the USA currently but it depends what you want. Regionals are starting off at 65-80 k a year, but the clincher is 121 time. The legacy carriers want 121 time which means a job at a regional like myself now. I can't go CAPT until I have 1000 hours 121 time and my total time and other PIC means sweet FA

sorry to be the bearer of bad news but thats the way it is. if you were Australian you would be welcomed in to fly here on a visa, go figure!

regarding life here, well its great, I live in Florida commute to work on any airline I want for free, free passes ect. I do like the lifestyle just not the regionals. I am currently with Piedmont.

If any Canadians have a question shoot me a message.

[DropYourSocks]

Bafanguy, Havick et al.

First off thank you both for all of the useful info you've both posted here and in the Aus forums over the past few years.

If you don't mind though I was wondering what the lifestyle at the better regionals is like now. Can you bid for day trips, or are they all multi's? Really I'm after what your experience has been like.

I have a pretty cruisy job with one of the Aus big 4, and a US partner who's pretty keen to get home so I'm weighing up whether it's worth the jump.

I must admit though it sounds like it'd be one hell of an adventure!

Cheers,

Socks

[zondaracer]

My company has a combination of day trips (called locals), 2 day, 3 day, and 4 day trips. We have almost no redeyes but we have a couple. I’ve never done one. We also have something called “standups” which are also known as “split duty” or “high speeds” which is flying the last flight out to an out station and bringing the first flight back in the morning. They put you in a hotel for 4 hours or more and you pay is typically much more than what you actually fly (on a standup). A friend of mine works at a company that also has 5 day trips.

What you get awarded depends on your seniority, the availability of trips, your base, and the plane you fly. Schedules can sometimes vary wildly month to month if you are very junior, and get more consistent with seniority.

[havick]

Bafanguy, Havick et al.

First off thank you both for all of the useful info you've both posted here and in the Aus forums over the past few years.

If you don't mind though I was wondering what the lifestyle at the better regionals is like now. Can you bid for day trips, or are they all multi's? Really I'm after what your experience has been like.

I have a pretty cruisy job with one of the Aus big 4, and a US partner who's pretty keen to get home so I'm weighing up whether it's worth the jump.

I must admit though it sounds like it'd be one hell of an adventure!

Cheers,

Socks

PM me with your contact details and I’ll give you a call, too much to be able to write on here.

[bafanguy]

.I have a pretty cruisy job with one of the Aus big 4, and a US partner who's pretty keen to get home so I'm weighing up whether it's worth the jump.

I must admit though it sounds like it'd be one hell of an adventure!

Drop,

Do you have a green card via your spouse ? If so, you've got 51% of the problem solved.

[DropYourSocks]

Thanks for all your replies ✌

No green card at this stage, but that'll be the plan for the future. At this stage the move is more for the missus, and the regionals seem like a good way to get acquainted with how life works there.

The idea would be to settle and move on to the majors, so it's more a matter of how to spend the next few years until then.

Cheers,

Socks

[bafanguy]

No green card at this stage, but that'll be the plan for the future. At this stage the move is more for the missus, and the regionals seem like a good way to get acquainted with how life works there.


Drop,

Understand. So, you'd shoot for a regional that'd get your FAA ticket for you and go from there ?

What airplane have you been flying so far ?

[510orbust]

Not sure how it’s a gimmick if you choose an American wholly owned and have guaranteed flow to mainline no interview .

What is a gimmick is the bonus they offer. American regionals - psa, envoy and piedmont get an American Airlines employee number from day one , it’s pensionable time, free passes on par with main liners , buddy passes ect.

Others that have regionals may offer an interview but not guaranteed employment like American . 5 year flow at Piedmont !



Zonda,

"...they view it as a gimmick to get more new hires."

Sounds like some kinda gimmick is necessary from what I'm hearing.

[510orbust]

My bonus with piedmont was 21500 and it was paid out , same with envoy ! Average salary is 60000 with all the triple time paid out some FO’s made 12000 in a month . Not for me , I like my time at home on my days off ,


Republic does have a $12500 hiring bonus now and highest pay for the regionals. Management held out for 8 years but they had to cave in eventually.

[bafanguy]

Not sure how it’s a gimmick if you choose an American wholly owned and have guaranteed flow to mainline no interview .


There's quite a bit of discussion about the AA flow. Yes, it's there and will be great for those able to get it in a few years....IF they get it in a few years. That's the wild card. As the financial wizards say, "Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.". There are a few black swan events that could radically change the flow timeline.

Having it in one's pocket as an option is certainly a plus especially considering the low numbers of AA new hires who are civ-only street hires.

Lots of ways to look at these deals. No one has to be right or wrong...que sera sera. :cool:

[510orbust]

Everything in aviation is a what if . What if another volcano blows and companies go under like a few years ago . What if there is another terror attack closing us airspace for over a week .

Point is this , currently I know guys who are flowing monthly , american is obligated to take from its feeders as long as guys pass the initial course . This is why you don’t see the street hires as you once did . All our apps are American , SOP aligned American now , uniform is american , as is our flight and commuting perks . Pay is being negotiated as we speak as is quality of life . If you are looking at a legacy carrier than the way to go is a regional wholly owned . Upgrade quickly you will just need 1000 hours 121 time .


There's quite a bit of discussion about the AA flow. Yes, it's there and will be great for those able to get it in a few years....IF they get it in a few years. That's the wild card. As the financial wizards say, "Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.".

Having it in one's pocket as an option is certainly a plus especially considering the low numbers of AA new hires who are civ-only street hires.

Lots of ways to look at these deals. No one has to be right or wrong. :cool:

[bafanguy]

Point is this , currently I know guys who are flowing monthly ... This is why you don’t see the street hires as you once did .

I don't recall saying people weren't flowing. AA's flow may the secret code to attracting new blood from a currently limited supply.

And I'm happy to see things go well for people.

I spent 35 years as a working Part 121 line pilot so I'm quite familiar with earning a living in the airline biz...and the often negative factors that influence it having experienced them myself. :)

[havick]

Everything in aviation is a what if . What if another volcano blows and companies go under like a few years ago . What if there is another terror attack closing us airspace for over a week .

Point is this , currently I know guys who are flowing monthly , american is obligated to take from its feeders as long as guys pass the initial course . This is why you don’t see the street hires as you once did . All our apps are American , SOP aligned American now , uniform is american , as is our flight and commuting perks . Pay is being negotiated as we speak as is quality of life . If you are looking at a legacy carrier than the way to go is a regional wholly owned . Upgrade quickly you will just need 1000 hours 121 time .

Yep this pretty much sums up my situation.

I joined Envoy late 2016, flew 1000 hours the last 12 months, slated for CA uograde training very shortly.

My flow date for AA mainline is mid 2022 and decreasing each time I check the list and proposed flow date.

All things considered not a terrible deal considering I was a helicopter pilot (didn’t need the RTP course offered) only weeks before I started at Envoy.

If I can goto mainline or a better deal between now and my flow date I will (fedex/UPS being the dream sheet), just starting to send apps out now so we will see. If it works out I end up flowing to AA because I don’t get bites anywhere else at least I gave it a shot and I still ended up at AA all the same. Better than sitting in Skywest or of another contract carrier 6-10 years from now still not getting bites to a legacy, just my opinion I’m sure there are others out there that may disagree.

All the while with AA mainline travel benefits and ID90 with lots of carriers and jumpseat with just about any US based carrier.

The often overlooked perk of flow is even if you don’t end up at the mainline carrier that owns you, the benefit is guaranteed progression up the seniority list every month due to the flow. Certainly helps with upgrade times, bidding for lines, vacation etc. As an FO I was bidding number 6-7 in base in only a year, and I’ll likely get a line right away as a CA once I finish training in a month or so.

Just my 2c from someone currently living it.

[A Squared]

Point is this , currently I know guys who are flowing monthly , american is obligated to take from its feeders as long as guys pass the initial course . This is why you don’t see the street hires as you once did . All our apps are American , SOP aligned American now , uniform is american , as is our flight and commuting perks . Pay is being negotiated as we speak as is quality of life . If you are looking at a legacy carrier than the way to go is a regional wholly owned . Upgrade quickly you will just need 1000 hours 121 time .

Right, but never lose sight of why this is being done. It's being done so that they can keep pay at the regionals low and still fill the seats up front. That's the bottom line. Note, I'm not saying that they haven't put together a package which has potential long term benefits, I would agree that they have Just pointing out that despite the attractiveness of the deal, it's still a case of holding out the promise of a good job to get you to work for a while at the job that you don't really want to do, at least long term.

[havick]

Right, but never lose sight of why this is being done. It's being done so that they can keep pay at the regionals low and still fill the seats up front. That's the bottom line. Note, I'm not saying that they haven't put together a package which has potential long term benefits, I would agree that they have Just pointing out that despite the attractiveness of the deal, it's still a case of holding out the promise of a good job to get you to work for a while at the job that you don't really want to do, at least long term.

Agree with your points, but where else do you go? There’s only other ****ty regionals (let’s face it they’re all pretty much the same). Let’s not forget it was mainline pilots that made B scales/regionals possible in the first place by allowing scope.

[bafanguy]

If I can goto mainline or a better deal between now and my flow date I will (fedex/UPS being the dream sheet), just starting to send apps out now so we will see.

If it works out I end up flowing to AA because I don’t get bites anywhere else at least I gave it a shot and I still ended up at AA all the same.

Just my 2c from someone currently living it.

havick,

Nicely summarized.

Someone has to be the glass-half-empty guy so I stepped up to it. It's what we do here at Ye Olde Pilot Home. :E

[A Squared]

Agree with your points, but where else do you go? There’s only other ****ty regionals (let’s face it they’re all pretty much the same). Let’s not forget it was mainline pilots that made B scales/regionals possible in the first place by allowing scope.

All true, I wasn't saying don't take the job. Hey, it's a relatively good time to be in the pilot job market. Enjoy the fact that, for now at least, they're offering some things to sweeten the pot, and pay scales *are* being pushed up some. I'm just saying don't fool yourself that this means that the pay and conditions will keep improving until they are approaching mainline terms. Quite the opposite, they're adding flow through agreements and other carrots precisely to keep that from happening.

And yeah, the unions agreeing to B scales, (as long at they remained on the A scales) really illustrated how sincere they are about the whole "we're all in this together" concept. Hell, it's inherent in the name "union". You'd think they'd at least pretend to adhere to the concept.

[bafanguy]

This can't hurt Trans States' recruiting efforts:

"Trans States Airlines pilots now have a direct pathway to the Frontier Airlines flight deck. An agreement inked by the two airlines guarantees participating Trans States pilots a First Officer position with the Denver-based Airbus operator after as little as two years of service with Trans States."

“A guaranteed pathway that allows for quick progression to a major carrier of Frontier’s caliber will be a huge asset to Trans States’ pilot recruiting efforts.”

https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/04/18/trans-states-airlines-and-frontier-airlines-announce-new-pilot-flow-agreement/

A few hurdles but not outlandish:

“Trans States pilots will forego Frontier's interviewing process, and flow to Frontier Airlines' flight deck as a First Officer. “

http://www.transstates.net/careers/pilot_careers/Pages/Trans-States-to-Frontier-Pilot-Flow-Program.aspx

Announcement dated today:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/trans-states-airlines-and-frontier-airlines-announce-new-pilot-flow-agreement-300632322.html?tc=eml_cleartime


And, they take E3s:

http://www.transstates.net/careers/Pages/E-3-Visa-Candidates.aspx

[bafanguy]

Cape Air creating its own pilot supply pipeline:

“The local plan would see future pilots train for 750 hours -- roughly 1.5 to two years -- and then train with Cape Air for the next 750 hours.

If they complete the program, Whitmer said, the student pilots would more than likely land jobs with Cape Air.”



Airport, Cape Air creating pilot school | AviationPros.com (http://www.aviationpros.com/news/12408617/airport-cape-air-creating-pilot-school)

[bafanguy]

Really I don’t see the point of feeder airlines starting such programs.

Who has this as a career goal?

bpi,

I can only guess that Cape is having a tough time competing for new blood ? Maybe they see an ab initio program as a way to lock in some people for a while ?

Heck, they'll even take people like us!

https://www.capeairpilots.com/gray-gulls

[flyboyike]

If you are looking at a legacy carrier than the way to go is a regional wholly owned...

I spent nearly six years at a regional wholly owned. Not only was there no flow, but the whole time I was there our mainline "parent" kept shrinking us until they closed us down at the end of September 2012.

[bafanguy]

Not much said here lately about Silver Airways but they've been in the news recently for ordering a bunch of ATRs and buying Seaborne Airlines. No idea what this means for pilot hiring:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2018/04/26/silver-airways-buys-caribbeans-largest-regional-airline/556647002/

Their pilot hiring page:

Silver Airways (http://silverairwayspilots.com/)

And from a few years ago, they've got a deal with Frontier. I'm not sure of the status or effectiveness of this arrangement:

https://www.silverairways.com/about-silver/press-room/article/2016/06/02/silver-airways-and-frontier-airlines-launch-pilot-career-program?stop_mobi=no

[bafanguy]

Some time ago, I posted the following about a GoJet-Spirit "flow":

"GoJet has entered into a Pilot Pathway Program with Airbus operator Spirit Airlines that will guarantee GoJet pilots a First Officer position at Spirit in as little as two years. GoJet pilots who are accepted into the Pathway Program will be eligible to transition to Spirit after two years of service."

GoJet Airlines Announces Pilot Pathway Program with Spirit Airlines

PILOT CAREERS (http://www.gojetairlines.com/careers/pages/pilots.aspx)

And lately, I found the following about the GoJet-Spirit "flow" arrangement posted on another forum.

(1) I’m I reading this correctly? Does GoJet have a flow through to Spirt?

(2) We have a pipeline agreement with Spirit. You opt in at 24 months of longevity at which point you take Spirit's standardized Talent Assessment Test. Upon successful completion of the test you may transition to Spirit.


(3) Yes you MAY transition to Spirit.

The Spirit Flow is a pure scam. To date there is maybe 1 actual confirmed flow to Spirit while I have spoken to at least a dozen pilots that have been told they wouldn’t be allowed to flow.

In addition to the resounding no’s from Spirit, I have also spoken to Pilots that have had their interviews with Spirit cancelled or been told that they would not be eligible to interview because of the GoJet “Flow”

If you want to keep Spirit as an option in the future then your best chance of getting there is to avoid GoJet entirely.

Feel free to ask the company/recruiter for the actual names of flows since the beginning of the program. They might be able to confirm 1.

(4) Thought the wording was a little off. Unlike PSA, Envoy or PDT where as it’s stated straight out you flow into AA. The GoJet-Spirit “flow” is very vague.

So...what is the status of the GoJet-Spirit "flow" ? Real or smoke and mirrors ?

[bafanguy]

Commutair forms alliance with Ohio University flight program:

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/commutair-and-ohio-university-offer-students-first-officer-pathway-program-300639215.html

[bafanguy]

Republic adds three more university av programs to their supply pipeline:


Republic Airline Adds Three Universities As Pilot Development Program Partners | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/aNNTicker.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=e48c4034-ed15-4722-b123-513ae227357a)

[zondaracer]

From an AA company newsletter, and also reported in Bloomberg, American Airlines will not renew contracts with Trans States Airlines (18 E145s) nor Expressjet (12 CRJ700s) and flying will terminate by April 2019.

American’s contracts with regional carriers ExpressJet and Trans States to end next year

In an effort to improve consistency for our customers and simplify our regional operation, we have decided not to renew our contracts with ExpressJet and Trans States when they expire in April 2019. The changes will not affect our capacity or service levels in any of our markets, and we will work closely with all impacted partners to ensure smooth and gradual transitions from ExpressJet and Trans States to other existing American Eagle partners. Once the wind-down of these agreements is completed, American will have seven regional partners, down from 10 we had at the beginning of this year.
Bloomberg reports that the Expressjet flying will be transitioned to parent company SkyWest.
In other news, AA has purchased 15 E175s and 15 CRJ900s which will be operated by Envoy and PSA respectively (plus 15 options of each type).

[havick]

From an AA company newsletter, and also reported in Bloomberg, American Airlines will not renew contracts with Trans States Airlines (18 E145s) nor Expressjet (12 CRJ700s) and flying will terminate by April 2019.


Bloomberg reports that the Expressjet flying will be transitioned to parent company SkyWest.
In other news, AA has purchased 15 E175s and 15 CRJ900s which will be operated by Envoy and PSA respectively (plus 15 options of each type).

Envoy just announced today we will also be taking back 15 145’s from transstates, so more consolidation afoot for wholly owned airlines being evident.

[bafanguy]

Envoy just announced today we will also be taking back 15 145’s from transstates, so more consolidation afoot for wholly owned airlines being evident.

It seems things might be starting to rumble in the regional segment here. First DL dumps a bunch of Expressjet flying and then:

https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/05/05/american-to-end-its-relationship-with-expressjet-and-trans-states-in-2019/

Starting to get interesting.

[Professional Amateur]

So why the rationalisation by AA? Thinning the fleet to bring the flying under them? Don't often see insoursing in aviation.

Did any of the carrier's have flow agreements to AA.

Bafanguy, it may appear you are talking to yourself most of the time.....but your not, I'm listening!

[bafanguy]

So why the rationalisation by AA? Thinning the fleet to bring the flying under them? Don't often see insoursing in aviation.

PA,

Yep, more regional consolidation is not out of the question. Rumors and speculation abound lately. I certainly don't know much about the future of all this.

But, it seems unlikely the legacies will bring all "regional" flying in-house at the legacy level...too expensive. The only statement I've seen was from Delta's CEO, Ed Bastian. He has a feature called Ask Ed Anything on the company website where employees send in questions on a variety of subjects which he answers on a video. About two years ago, someone wrote in asking if Delta would ever bring Endeavor into mainline. The answer was an unequivocal "NO". He said they "...like it..." the way it is, i.e., two separate certificates.

Of course, two years is an eternity in the airline biz but I don't see anything happening to indicate a change is imminent.

And, yes, I talk to myself ! :ok:

[bafanguy]

Horizon and Pen Air shakin' the bushes to see what falls out:

Airlines land in Anchorage in search of pilots - KTVA 11 - The Voice of Alaska (http://www.ktva.com/story/38123645/airlines-land-in-anchorage-in-search-of-pilots)

[bafanguy]

I can't decipher this stuff. Does it mean Air Wisconsin is requesting 4 H1B visa spots starting in September, 2018...or they've ID's four specific individuals for whom they're requesting H1B visas ?

I-200-18081-995816: Certified :H1B Visa LCA | Myvisajobs.com (http://www.myvisajobs.com/H1B-Visa/LCA.aspx?ID=6123474&NO=I-200-18081-995816&ST=Certified)

Found it here under "search current system" for 2018:

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Air-Wisconsin/20095.htm

[havick]

I can't decipher this stuff. Does it mean Air Wisconsin is requesting 4 H1b visa spots starting in September, 2018...or they've ID's four specific individuals for whom they're requesting H1b visas ?

I-200-18081-995816: Certified :H1B Visa LCA Myvisajobs.com (http://www.myvisajobs.com/H1B-Visa/LCA.aspx?ID=6123474&NO=I-200-18081-995816&ST=Certified)

Found it here under "search current system":

Air Wisconsin, Jobs & Salary for Foreign Workers myvisajobs.com (http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Air-Wisconsin/20095.htm)

An E3 appears as a H1B on that website for some reason so it could easily be an E3 disguised as a H1B due to constraints of the website itself.

[bafanguy]

An E3 appears as a H1B on that website for some reason so it could easily be an E3 disguised as a H1B due to constraints of the website itself.






havick,

Thanks. So it's not Canadians stealing Aussie jobs ? ;)

I noticed that looking at the 4 LCAs from 2017, 2 were shown as H1B and 2 as E3s: http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Air-Wisconsin/20095.htm

The reason I thought it was H1B is the first post from this avcanda thread citing contact with AW and showing their willingness/requirements for help with an H1B:

http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=122708 (http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=122708)

[havick]

havick,

Thanks. So it's not Canadians stealing Aussie jobs ? ;)

I noticed that looking at the 4 LCAs from 2017, 2 were shown as H1B and 2 as E3s: Air Wisconsin, Jobs & Salary for Foreign Workers myvisajobs.com (http://www.myvisajobs.com/Visa-Sponsor/Air-Wisconsin/20095.htm)

The reason I thought it was H1B is the first post from this avcanda thread citing contact with AW and showing their willingness/requirements for help with an H1B:

Some U.S. regional airlines are now sponsoring Canadians for the H1B Vis - AVCANADA (http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=122708)


honestly I have no idea, I just know that on some of the immigration type websites the E3 can appear as a H1B even though it’s still an E3.

doesnt really answer your question it just makes it more confusing for you I guess.

[Zaphod Beblebrox]

I work for AA and will venture a guess. Mr. Parker was the first to offer a "flow" program as a legacy major carrier. He believes that a properly constructed "flow" program will attract the necessary talent in the pilot pool without having to resort to a "cash war" for pilots. He has stated so in employee meetings. I believe that the reduction in flying by some contract carriers will allow AA to bring more flying on the "wholly owned", Envoy, Piedmont, & PSA, and increase the flow. Envoy already has direct entry captains.
AA will never bring all regional flying in-house. They will always want some contractors out there to keep a lid on costs. It's just that now with the pilot shortage the most effective way to control pilot costs is with the promise of a flow to mainline. AA management believes that it will reduce the pressure on pilot cost demands at contract time.

[bafanguy]

I work for AA and will venture a guess. Mr. Parker was the first to offer a "flow" program as a legacy major carrier. He believes that a properly constructed "flow" program will attract the necessary talent in the pilot pool without having to resort to a "cash war" for pilots. He has stated so in employee meetings. I believe that the reduction in flying by some contract carriers will allow AA to bring more flying on the "wholly owned", Envoy, Piedmont, & PSA, and increase the flow. Envoy already has direct entry captains.
AA will never bring all regional flying in-house. They will always want some contractors out there to keep a lid on costs. It's just that now with the pilot shortage the most effective way to control pilot costs is with the promise of a flow to mainline. AA management believes that it will reduce the pressure on pilot cost demands at contract time.

Zap,

Based on my observations, Parker cracked the code with this "flow" thing. While there's a wild card aspect to the "when" of the flow, it's a pretty big carrot particularly for the young, low-time guys entering the hunt...gets their interest. If they're starting out, they've got to put in the time/years somewhere so why not at a place with a flow and see what happens? They can always take a run at other carriers in the meantime.

The rumor mill says Delta will announce their "University Pathway Program" later this month. My sources tell me they've been cookin' up this thing for quite a while. They even have a dedicated Manager of Pilot Outreach who oversees things like this. I'll be very curious to see how closely it resembles AA's regional-to-mainline flow thingy...if at all.

Interesting times...

[bafanguy]

doesnt really answer your question it just makes it more confusing for you I guess.

havick,

I don't understand why these regionals don't just admit they'll consider/help expats if that's what they're doing anyway. IIRC, it took several of them a long time to put E3 info on their pilot employment websites and admit they were soliciting them. What do they have to lose?

Same for the Canadian thing. If they're having a tough time recruiting, why not just put it out there and see what happens ?

Rejecting applicants doesn't cost them anything so why not shake the bushes really hard and see what falls out ?

[bafanguy]

Stumbled across this memo from the Commutair chief pilot on another forum. I suppose there's a certain "sales pitch" to it but it seems interesting to read anyway. Aren't ALL regionals offering sales pitches these days ?:


Growth Talk with Chief Pilot David Fitzgerald

Corporate Growth and You

My name is David Fitzgerald, Chief Pilot at CommutAir. Two years ago, I joined CommutAir after 18 years at a larger Regional airline. I came to help shape the future of this United Express carrier after it reached an agreement with United for a 40% ownership stake, a commitment to triple the size of its fleet to up to 61 aircraft in 4 years, and first and fastest United Career Path Program.

Corporate growth landed me at CommutAir, but the most common question asked by current and future pilots is “David, how will CommutAir’s corporate growth benefit me?”

Here’s my answer:

Corporate Growth = Fly more, sit less: Every new jet that we receive adds about 275 hours of flying – requiring us to hire 11-12 new pilots. And practically every month, United’s appetite for requisitioning Career Path Program (CPP) pilots continues unabated. Monthly aircraft deliveries, combined with United CPP graduations means YOU move up the seniority list while accumulating hours for the UA-CPP.

So, get used to life on the line. With reserve periods of 5 months or less, the majority of our First Officers average 80+hours a month with 13-15 days off. And if you are looking for additional hours, simply sign up with Crew Scheduling for flying at incentive pay rates.

Corporate Growth increases the need for Captains: Why wear 3 stripes when we give you 4? As soon as you are near the 1,000 Part 121 equivalent hours mark, expect a call from me to sign you up for Captain Upgrade Training. As much as we need First Officers, our demand for Captains is even greater, which is why we guarantee Captain pay after 1 year.

Are you a seasoned Part 121 Pro? If so,keep your phone handy. Upgrade times are projected to be under 6 months with our next round of awards. By June,our junior-most Captain will be a November 2017 hire!

Corporate Growth is good for your logbook and your resume: Stand out from the pack when you interview with the network airlines with a well-rounded resume! A tripling fleet requires a capable infrastructure, and we planto double our Flight Training Department, opening opportunities for line pilots to serve as Ground and Simulator Instructors, as well as Line Check Airmen. And no, you will not lose out on hours by becoming an instructor. Unlike other Regionals, at CommutAir, your instructor hours count towards your CPP requirements. It is your CFI days on steroids!

Finally,Corporate Growth quickly gets you in the RIGHT seat at United: CommutAir’s CPP commitment to United is based on the size of CommutAir’s pilot cadre. So the faster we grow, the faster you go to United. Punch your ticket to United Airlines soon after you accumulate 1,000 PIC hours. Where is the catch? There is none! Our United CPP is the fastest among competitors, and our growth will allow you to accumulate 1,000 PIC hours in 18 months or less.

Come beat the fastest CommutAir indoc to United indoc of 2 years and 10 days! The “final” call you receive at CommutAir is from United Airlines Pilot Recruiting – with your Class Date!

Every airline, including CommutAir, is offering similar compensation and similar sign-on bonuses. Every other airline markets “quick upgrades” and their equivalent of the CPP. Every airline is announcing growth plans (e.g., “10 airplanes soon”). So how do you make sense of the clutter? CORPORATE GROWTH! CommutAir is the only Regional with a confirmed triple-digit growth plan (300%). As an example, SkyWest will have to add 800 airplanes to rival our “corporate growth.”

And finally – a word about “culture.”
Leaving CommutAir for United within 2 years may be your goal. However, my job - and part of our mission statement - is to provide for your comfort and maintain our family-like culture both in and out of the flight deck. You will notice it from Day 1 of Ground School, which culminates in an informal social at a local pub hosted by our CEO. You will notice it if you overnight in Cleveland and walk across to our HQ to minglewith the Dispatchers, Crew Schedulers and the rest of the office staff. And when on the line, I guarantee that you will create lifelong friends no matter where your career takes you.

If you have any questions for me or anyone at CommutAir, contact me at [email protected] or [email protected]. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter or visit us on AirlineApps and Airline Pilot Central!

David
Chief Pilot, CommutAir


And then this meet & greet event:

https://www.airlineapps.com/news/item.aspx?nid=515

[bafanguy]

This is somewhat related to regional headhunting as the regionals are pilfering the ranks of CFIs. This is what the government has to say:

https://www.gao.gov/assets/700/691748.pdf

And this is what another study found re CFIs, among other issues (scroll down about half way): (https://www.gao.gov/assets/700/691748.pdf)


“All schools are reporting CFI staffing issues with top concerns focused on high turnover and the lack of multi-engine instrument (MEI) and initial CFI instructors. “

https://raccablog.wordpress.com/2018/05/17/good-news-on-the-pilot-front/

[bafanguy]

Ths is the latest on the Department of Transportation's Forces to Flyers program. In broad terms, get them to a CFI, instruct and off to the regionals:

https://www.volpe.dot.gov/forcestoflyers

https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot3518

[bafanguy]

Latest comments from AA on their "Cadet Academy" regional headhunting program:


“Candidates who complete the program will land interviews with an American regional carrier, although a job is not guaranteed.”

American Airlines? new pilot program attracts more than 2,000 applicants | Training content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/training/american-airlines-new-pilot-program-attracts-more-2000-applicants)

[bafanguy]

Latest version of Endeavor's Delta Guaranteed Interview program, dated today. I'd need an attorney to decipher this thing.

All this just for an interview:

http://www.endeavorair.com/content/dam/endeavor-air/documents/Endeavor-Delta%20DGI%20Program%2025MAY2018.pdf

[Professional Amateur]

I don't understand the appeal of the 'guaranteed interview' promise. It is completely non binding.

Like your parents telling you that if you clean your room they guarantee they'll consider taking you to Disney land .......

[bafanguy]

I don't understand the appeal of the 'guaranteed interview' promise. It is completely non binding.

PA,

Yes, it strikes me the same way. They may lay out a process defining the NUMBER of Endeavor people they interview but that doesn't mean they have to hire that many [ [url]https://tenor.com/view/charlie-brown-fail-lucy-sports-football-gif-4460715 ]. Delta's overall interview success rate since they began serious hiring in 2014 is ~74-78%. I'd be curious to know what the success rate is for the Endeavor pilots they've interviewed over that time.

I know they have had "Endeavor-only" interview days in the past where the success rate for that demographic is not 78%. There's a website, readysettakeoff.com, that tracks such specifics for its members. I've seen bits and pieces concerning the Endeavor-only days but I can't document the success rate reliably from what I've seen (which was NOT 78%).

Endeavor is wholly owned by DL with an increasing dependence on feed they provide to mainline. I'd be surprised to see DL shoot itself in the foot by hiring away too many of its feed pilots. But I make no claim of clairvoyance or inside info.

A true flow seems to be a much better carrot.

The rumor mill says there's to be an announcement coming about some kind of university pathway to DL. I have no idea what format it'll be but guess it will involve Endeavor as that's the only regional over which they have complete control. While DL had the ill-fated Endeavor-to-Delta program involving what seems to be a relative handful of pilots, I'd be surprised to see them implement a true flow for all a la AA.

It's a puzzle...and I can't solve it.

[bafanguy]

I will be very interested in learning about Delta’s University to Air Line program.
bpi,

As will I. They have a Manager of Pilot Outreach overseeing such things, IIUC. She has an impressive resume for such stuff.

It'll be news when it happens and show up somewhere.

[bafanguy]

Speaking of Endeavor, Delta and their hiring practices. This:

Found the post below on another forum where DL’s “rigorous hiring standards” were being debated/discussed. Although not sure about 100% of what the guy said, I thought the reply quoted below, in response to why DL is like that, was particularly well reasoned. Although it’s a bit anecdotal as much internet stuff is, some of it jives with what was then the word on the street after the success rate of Endeavor pilots at DL interviews became news. [maybe an object lesson in there ?]

First, I’ve always objected to fuzzy, undefined terms, like “… the best pilots available…”. It’s meaningless and only know it’s their game, ergo, they make the rules…whatever THEY are. We can only infer its meaning by looking at results produced under the HR system in place. Results mixed enough in some cases to make one wonder.

Second, in paragraph #2, I don’t know that DL has no input into what the HR squad at their wholly-owned regional does related to hiring pilots. I’d like to know.

Third, in paragraph #3, the bolded part does match the word on the street. If…if…IF it’s true, whoever told them that needs to be publicly horse whipped along with anyone who’d actually have believed it. While I’d surmise it might be true for the initial wave of interviewees, the results would’ve spread like wild fire and likely altered the pre-interview behavior of those following. Would it not ?

At any rate, I’m just one of the Blind Men and the Elephant. Here’s what the guy said:


Why would Delta do this? Really?!?

1) Call it vanity, but they get to continue to tell themselves that they get to hire the best pilots available, choosing and poaching from ALL of the available candidates. Look at DL’s hiring stats. They have plenty of qualified pilots applying. Why would they lock themselves into anything but the most token of guarantees to bring in EDV pilots while military pilots are plentiful and cheap and the vast majority of regional 121 and all of the 135 world aren’t covered by a flow to another major?

2) Related to 1, Delta HR doesn’t have to stoop to accepting pilots from a “regional” (say that in a condescending tone) that were hired by said “regional HR.”

3) Related to 1, EDV pilot’s that interviewed early on with company sponsored interviews, their HR liaisons that coached them, accounted for themselves rather poorly with all the talk of “it’s a formality really, just a handshake and a chat. No problem.” Pilots that mailed in their effort, didn’t show for interviews, or acted entitled (or insufficiently humble when bowing to kiss Delta HR’s ring) hurt themselves and all other EDV pilots by giving Delta HR any evidence to say that they need to continue to stand as guardians against the unbathed masses of “regional” pilots.

Lastly, and this is purely personal anecdote. I did a short touch and go at EDV after retiring from the military and before moving on to mainline. I can tell you my experience of talking to pretty good EDV pilots that were passed over by Delta was that none of the passed over pilots seemed to grasp how important prepping for the interview really was, even after getting turned down with a 6 month re-interview invitation. By contrast, my military bubbas encouraging me to come to mainline were adamant about test and interview prep as a friendly prerequisite to the internal recommendation so that I’d be successful. That approach is as much a cultural heritage from a military career (never start a fight or engagement that you don’t already know the outcome, either because you know you’re going to win or your sacrifice is necessary), but I prepped and studied my butt off. The result was that after the adrenaline of the two day process was over, it was easy to say that it was actually pretty low threat. I saw mil friends one day ahead of me to interview and one day behind me, and our interview groups were >75% military, all whom were hired, and all felt like they were over-prepared. The others, as a general rule, had not spent as much time, money, or effort on prep, felt like the testing was harder than they expected, that the got beat up more in the HR portion, and were overall about 50/50 on CJO vice invitation for 6 month return or a total “thank you for your time.” Let me be clear that in my short interaction with these others, or what was related by friends, the only difference I could see was how much effort had gone into prep versus mil guys.

My opinion, imperfect and ignorant as it is, is that until every SSP or DGI participant shows up to interview 100% prepared (test prep, HR prep, and with a convincing balance of humble and confidence), Delta HR will always want to protect their turf by holding up the example of a few clowns that accounted poorly for themselves and hurt the EDV name in the process.

[A Squared]

I don't understand the appeal of the 'guaranteed interview' promise. It is completely non binding.

I think that there's a lot of people who never really stop to think about what's actually going on.

[bafanguy]

Delta Air Lines used to have a matrix, where everything about an applicants history resulted in a score.Does anybody know exactly what scored you top points?
Can you name all the categories, and the associated credits?

bpi,

To my knowledge, all the above is TOP SECRET stuff; many will speculate but few if any will actually know. They've admitted that the airlinesapps.com document you submit had darned well better be perfect in punctuation, capitalization, grammar and consistent use of terminology with no gaps in things like employment and/or residency history throughout...lest you be deemed too slovenly and half-baked to be worthy. Beyond that, I've not heard comments from unimpeachable sources as to what factors or their weight that gets one to Hapeville.

For example, turbine PIC was once said to be a deal breaker...then not so much. The volunteering was critical...I know people interviewed without it. We all remain Blind Men and the Elephant.

You'll learn America's nuclear launch codes before you learn the application scoring criteria that gets one a DL interview.

However, apps do get scored and DL admits as much in the instructions for internal recommendations on their company website.

[bafanguy]

So, Republic Airlines is now in cahoots with a flight school for an ab initio of sorts ? The standard path: get tickets, instruct, go to affiliated regional ?

Not sure if Republic bought the school or just has a deal with them:

"A position as a pilot with Republic Airline will be available for all our graduates."

https://flywithlift.com/benefits/?type=5

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Republic-Airways-Opens-Flight-Academy-to-Combat-Pilot-Shortage-230910-1.html


“The 50 aircraft order represents the largest order for piston training aircraft by any U.S. based airline in history. Initial deliveries for the new fleet of Diamond Aircraft will begin in 2018, with the majority of deliveries in 2019.”

http://aviationtribune.com/training/republic-airways-selects-diamond-da40ng-and-da42-vi-fleet/

[Professional Amateur]

On a big scale the idea of training to be a cpl, then CFI then you staying on as a CFI at the school comes across as a pyramyd scheme.

How do the numbers stack up? Over 1500h how many cpls would a CFI train who then turn into cfis themselves who in turn train X amount of cpls aiming to be cfis?

Just saying the pilot shortage problem will rear its head again but in a different form. That form will be an oversupply of cfis in the system with low or no students.

[bafanguy]

On a big scale the idea of training to be a cpl, then CFI then you staying on as a CFI at the school comes across as a pyramyd scheme.

Just saying the pilot shortage problem will rear its head again but in a different form. That form will be an oversupply of cfis in the system with low or no students.

The problem is getting people from a fresh CPL to ATP mins. There aren't all that many ways to do that but CFI is one used for a long time here...just a pipeline.

As for CFI supply vs student numbers, the reverse seems to be the case in that schools are having a hard time keeping CFI because the regionals are snapping them up so fast. When regionals stop that, the problem of CFI oversupply might exist or perhaps self correct.

It's a puzzle...

[INNflight]

That form will be an oversupply of cfis in the system with low or no students.

Look at us over here in Europe. General aviation isn't nearly as popular/developed than what it is in the States, hence the path via CFI work to reach anything wouldn't be viable for student pilots to gain experience, simply because there is no need for 1000+ new CFIs every year.
We simply cut out that middle portion of making it into an airliner. The airlines train most pilots for themselves and boooom - 3 years later you're sitting in the right hand seat. Of course in the US that's a FAA-regulatory issue now with the high hour mins.

[flyboyike]

PA,

Yes, it strikes me the same way. They may lay out a process defining the NUMBER of Endeavor people they interview but that doesn't mean they have to hire that many [ [url]https://tenor.com/view/charlie-brown-fail-lucy-sports-football-gif-4460715 ]. Delta's overall interview success rate since they began serious hiring in 2014 is ~74-78%. I'd be curious to know what the success rate is for the Endeavor pilots they've interviewed over that time.

I know they have had "Endeavor-only" interview days in the past where the success rate for that demographic is not 78%. There's a website, readysettakeoff.com, that tracks such specifics for its members. I've seen bits and pieces concerning the Endeavor-only days but I can't document the success rate reliably from what I've seen (which was NOT 78%).

Endeavor is wholly owned by DL with an increasing dependence on feed they provide to mainline. I'd be surprised to see DL shoot itself in the foot by hiring away too many of its feed pilots. But I make no claim of clairvoyance or inside info.



A very good friend of mine who is an Endeavor Captain just had his second DL interview and didn't get hired. Supposedly, both times he missed it "by one point" (whatever that means). Personally, I truly believe it's DL's loss, he could be a poster boy for them in many, many ways, but alas. I don't think I've ever met a better pilot, or a more dedicated, passionate person. He tells me the success rate for Endeavor pilots is hovering in the 30-35% range. If that's true, I really don't see any further justification for the program. The Endeavor pilot group is easily at least professional enough to achieve such low numbers on their own without a "preference".

[bafanguy]

A very good friend of mine who is an Endeavor Captain just had his second DL interview and didn't get hired. Supposedly, both times he missed it "by one point" (whatever that means). He tells me the success rate for Endeavor pilots is hovering in the 30-35% range.

ike,

It's frustrating and exasperating. Many good people will get passed over because the subjectivity of the panel interview in particular is so high.

I also know someone who was told he missed it "by one point". Apparently, the day's interview accumulates a point total with a pass/fail grade (no idea what gets what points). Seems to me the panel interview is a stumbling point where, at some level, subjectivity reigns supreme.

But, tell your friend they apparently give more than two interviews. My wife flew a trip with a DL captain whose son had just been hired...after his THIRD interview. Not hearsay...fact. So perhaps all isn't lost. But it sure costs a guy a lot of seniority numbers by the time he gets three interviews; at least he's in the club and that's what ultimately counts.

And the guy they hired on the third attempt is exactly the same guy they turned down twice before...not one iota of difference...couldn't be.

I couldn't get a job sweeping out the hangar today.

Oh well...it's a puzzle.

[flyboyike]

ike,

It's frustrating and exasperating. Many good people will get passed over because the subjectivity of the panel interview in particular is so high.

I also know someone who was told he missed it "by one point". Apparently, the day's interview accumulates a point total with a pass/fail grade (no idea what gets what points). Seems to me the panel interview is a stumbling point where, at some level, subjectivity reigns supreme.

But, tell your friend they apparently give more than two interviews. My wife flew a trip with a DL captain whose son had just been hired...after his THIRD interview. Not hearsay...fact. So perhaps all isn't lost. But it sure costs a guy a lot of seniority numbers by the time he gets three interviews; at least he's in the club and that's what ultimately counts.

And the guy they hired on the third attempt is exactly the same guy they turned down twice before...not one iota of difference...couldn't be.

I couldn't get a job sweeping out the hangar today.

Oh well...it's a puzzle.

Personally, I'd rather he gave up on DL's pointless beatdown and just came to us instead, but that's just me...

[bafanguy]

Personally, I'd rather he gave up on DL's pointless beatdown...

ike,

From the intel I get, I'm not sure DL's routine is all that different from the others.

[bafanguy]

Reincarnation of Midwest Express with CRJs ? Not much detail given:


Midwest Express (http://www.flymidwestexpress.com/)

I suppose some headhunting would result from such a rebirth.

Here's a bit of history. Rebirth seems like a real long shot...gutsy move... but I wish them well:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2017/08/09/effort-underway-bring-back-midwest-express-airlines/552399001/



The latest efforts:

https://www.biztimes.com/2018/industries/banking-finance/group-trying-to-relaunch-midwest-express-says-its-making-progress/

[bafanguy]

The new Republic ab initio program evolves a little further by an alliance with a local university av program. This may be the new normal ? Lots & lots of university av programs around:

“…Republic and Vincennes University are announcing the formation of a long-term training partnership. Under the partnership, beginning in 2019, Vincennes University (VU) flight students will complete their flight training at LIFT Academy, with access to the most technologically advanced training environment and the opportunity to become part of the Republic Airline career pathway program. “

Republic Airways Launches Aviation Training Academy In Indianapolis | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=3a1e99af-775e-47cd-affd-481a7d4d3313)

[bafanguy]

Skywest adds flight school for rotor transition pilots:

"Military Rotor pilots who choose to complete their fixed wing training at AMS can enjoy up to $27,500 in tuition reimbursement and bonuses from SkyWest. The Rotor Transition Program is designed to provide a clear pathway for military helicopter pilots to launch their career as an airline pilot with SkyWest."


AMS Partners With SkyWest Airlines For Tuition Reimbursement | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/Subscribe.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=b7b2bd2a-08ca-460f-95ae-aa9adf0c7a38)

[bafanguy]

Yet another example of the university-regional style pipeline involving a smaller school. This is becoming a pattern:

Airlines hire K-State graduates to reverse pilot shortage | The Kansas City Star (http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article212132989.html)

[bafanguy]

Latest offering from GoJet Airlines. I'm not clear on what constitutes an "International air carrier". If they're interested in people who can quickly upgrade because they have 1,000 hours Part 121 time, perhaps it means a US carrier that flies international routes ?

“The new bonus package includes a $51,000 bonus for new hire First Officers, as well as a $5,000 Air Carrier Experience Match for current and qualified pilots from any scheduled US or international air carrier.”

https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/06/16/gojet-airlines-announces-a-new-pilot-bonus-package/

[bafanguy]

Envoy casts a bit wider net:

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Envoy-Announces-Partnership-with-ATP-Flight-School-231078-1.html

[havick]

Envoy casts a bit wider net:

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Envoy-Announces-Partnership-with-ATP-Flight-School-231078-1.html

Apparently Envoy ended some partnerships with other flight schools so it’s probably a wash.

[bafanguy]

Apparently Envoy ended some partnerships with other flight schools so it’s probably a wash.

havick,

Any idea what caused that ?

[havick]

havick,

Any idea what caused that ?

not sure, it’s only what I heard from someone at the schoolhouse. No idea if there’s any truth to it or not

[bafanguy]

Republic's latest offering. I guess this is in addition to the academy they recently announced ?:

“Republic Airline has partnered with ATP Flight School in its Tuition Reimbursement Program to contribute financial support for pilots in flight training. This program provides professional development and career progression for pilots, setting the course to gain the necessary experience to fly for the airline.”

“Pilots enrolled in the program will receive up to $11,000 in tuition reimbursement payments and up to $6,500 in bonus compensation.”

Republic Announces Tuition Reimbursement Agreement With ATP Flight School | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/subscribe.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=20a37f7a-96ed-4850-8caa-78027ee90f79)

[bafanguy]

And GoJet works a deal...of sorts:

“Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc. today said that its Atlas Air, Inc. unit and GoJet Airlines have entered an agreement guaranteeing GoJet pilots an interview with Atlas after as little as one to two years of service.”

https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/07/12/atlas-air-worldwide-announces-guaranteed-interview-program-for-pilots-at-gojet-airlines/

[misd-agin]

And GoJet works a deal...of sorts:

“Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc. today said that its Atlas Air, Inc. unit and GoJet Airlines have entered an agreement guaranteeing GoJet pilots an interview with Atlas after as little as one to two years of service.”

https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/07/12/atlas-air-worldwide-announces-guaranteed-interview-program-for-pilots-at-gojet-airlines/


That's kind of funny - if you have prior military flying experience you can get an interview after a year. The vast majority of guys with prior military time will have moved on, and most likely not to Atlas, before that year is up.

[bafanguy]

The vast majority of guys with prior military time will have moved on, and most likely not to Atlas, before that year is up.

misd-,

They certainly have a good chance of doing that (maybe even better than average) but it's apparently far from guaranteed. There's no way to understand what goes on in the heads of the HR people (including the ones with a license and medical in their pocket).

Many good candidates will ultimately get left behind at places they'll consider a consolation prize.

[bafanguy]

Apparently Commutair is sending around this announcement:


https://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/this-arrived-in-the-mail-today.262174/#lg=attachment44012&slide=0

And this. Not so much about management changes but this statement: (https://forums.jetcareers.com/threads/this-arrived-in-the-mail-today.262174/#lg=attachment44012&slide=0)

“Through 2019, CommutAir will triple in size to an all-jet fleet of up to 61 aircraft and actively hire in all areas.”

http://www.flycommutair.com/commutair-a-united-express-carrier-appoints-david-fitzgerald-and-jacob-lofting-to-its-flight-operations-leadership-team/

[bafanguy]

Courting the RW pilot pool:

Kathryn's Report: Pooler, Georgia: Local group seeks to fill nationwide pilot shortage (http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2018/08/pooler-georgia-local-group-seeks-to.html)

[bafanguy]

Republic Airways launches first ab initio pilot class:

“Over 600 applications were received for the first class.”

"...total tuition for the flight academy is $65,000, which is lower than most other aviation training schools in the U.S."

https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/08/31/republic-airways-welcomes-the-first-aviation-training-academy-class/

[bafanguy]

Latest analysis of pilot supply from the Regional Airline Association:


https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.raa.org/resource/resmgr/2018_pubs/august_update.pdf

[bafanguy]

Horizon Air dangles a bit of a carrot:

https://horizonair-pilot.jobs/pilot-pathways-program/

[A Squared]

Horizon Air dangles a bit of a carrot:

https://horizonair-pilot.jobs/pilot-pathways-program/


Yet another regional plays the "Working for us isn't all that great, and we don't plan on fixing that, but if you work for us for a while you might get a good job" card.

[bafanguy]

Yet another regional plays the "Working for us isn't all that great, and we don't plan on fixing that, but if you work for us for a while you might get a good job" card.

Yep...kinda.

[pilotchute]

I get the feel from the Regions Airline Association publication that they want to repeal the 1500 hour rule.

I find this funny because before the 1500 hour rule regional pilots qualified for food stamps. Only now do they get paid even close to what they deserve.

If they overturn the 1500 hour rule cockpits around the country will fill with 250 fresh CPL grads willing to work for nothing to get to a major.

[havick]

I get the feel from the Regions Airline Association publication that they want to repeal the 1500 hour rule.

I find this funny because before the 1500 hour rule regional pilots qualified for food stamps. Only now do they get paid even close to what they deserve.

If they overturn the 1500 hour rule cockpits around the country will fill with 250 fresh CPL grads willing to work for nothing to get to a major.

ALPA just sent out an email saying they had a win on this front in that the rule isn’t going to be changed, it has at least another 5 year stay of execution

[Seagull201]

ALPA just sent out an email saying they had a win on this front in that the rule isn’t going to be changed, it has at least another 5 year stay of execution

The ALPA may have a win on that front, BUT Congress (US parliament), will have the final say, if there's going to be any rule change.

[MarkerInbound]

The House and Senate passed the FAA Reauthorization bill and Trump signed it October 6. It is a 5 year plan for the FAA that makes no mention of changing the ATP CTP program or the "1500 hour" rule (121.436). ALPA sent out the email when Trump signed it, thus their "win."

[bafanguy]

A pathway deal for Expressjet and Pan AM Academy:

Pan Am International Flight Academy and ExpressJet Sign Pilot Pathway Agreement (http://aviationtribune.com/training/pan-am-international-flight-academy-and-expressjet-sign-pilot-pathway-agreement/)

[bafanguy]

Looks like University of North Dakota has set up a "pathway" program with Sun Country Airlines for UND's grads. Appears to follow the university-instructing-airline model. But...how will this be better than the pipelines leading to a regional ? The regionals lead to much quicker access to turbine PIC time (assuming the career-destination airlines will think this is important enough to be a discriminator) whereas upgrade at Sun Country will likely be rather long:

"Eligible students at UND will be required to complete their flight hours at the university. These hours can be and often are accrued when students become paid flight instructors for the school. This means that more qualified student-pilots will remain at UND as flight instructors and continue teaching up-and-coming pilots."

http://media.aero.und.edu/avit.und.edu/documents/career-pathways/Sun-Country.pdf

[bafanguy]

Yet another pathway program. This one between Ameriflight, a TP freight outfit, and some larger airline companies:

“Under the program, a Pathway Pilot reaching the outlined benchmarks will be recommended for Atlas' ATP/CTP program. Successful completion of the program and acceptance of employment will result in the pilot being placed in an aircraft class, such as the 747 with Atlas Air for higher-time pilots or the 737 with Southern Air for lower-time, new-hire pilots.”

Atlas Air And Southern Air Sign Pathway Program Agreement With Ameriflight | Aero-News Network (http://www.aero-news.net/EmailArticle.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=802e3516-146b-478a-9497-4c6a4ed20beb)

[boofhead]

ALPA just sent out an email saying they had a win on this front in that the rule isn’t going to be changed, it has at least another 5 year stay of execution

This shows that ALPA is not interested in the future of aviation in this country. Only their own pockets.

I have no doubt that eventually all the qualified and experienced pilots will end up in the majors. But there will be nobody left to fly the regionals and puddle-jumpers and Part 135 on demand, as well as nobody left to be flight instructors and the like. Maybe Corporate flying will remain because those guys have deep pockets.

What happens to the industry then? Nobody learning to fly, nobody wanting to be a commercial pilot willing to pay the huge costs and take the 7 or 8 years it will take to get qualified and experienced just to apply for that SIC job at Delta? (A couple less years if they don't want a degree, but at least 10 - 15 years to become fully qualified to be a PIC of a Boeing). It is too late to stop the hemorrhaging and too late to start to fix it. We should have started 8 years ago but that was when Congress decided to increase the requirements to a level that was unnecessary, unrealistic and ineffective, driving a spike into our own hearts. Follow the money: Why did they do this? I think the answer is obvious now.

And what about the level of experience at the top? When the present 65 yr old captains retire who will take their place? Inexperienced SICs, guys and gals who have only been sitting there for a few years because the airlines are so desperate they will take anybody with a pulse if they have 1500 hours no matter what value? And when these low experienced pilots take the command seat will they be able to pass on what they know to the next generation? I say this because I know the people the airlines are taking now. Because there are so few applicants who would have been qualified under the old system, with competitive qualifications and experience, they are taking literally anybody who meets the minimums and a lot who don't. I know guys who haven't got a multi rating or any experience multi engine and no turbine time and no ATP being offered a job at the second-level airlines (Horizon etc) and the airline will pay for their multi rating, pay for their ATP course and check ride, and put them in the right seat for less than two years with a promise of command after that and serious bonuses, they are so desperate. One of those guys told me that he only had to return a signature on a contract by fax or email to lock in the job, and he was 59 years old at the time the offer was made! He is currently doing multi engine training at the airline expense. It won't be long before the majors are doing the same.

Meanwhile the Part 135 companies are going broke because they can't compete with the salaries and conditions offered by the Part 121 companies and many cannot offer SIC training because they fly single pilot. They cannot put bare 500 hour pilots or even 1500 hour pilots into those jobs without seeing their airplanes damaged or destroyed by the lack of experience and anybody they do employ is only taking a place-hold job in preparation for moving up to the airlines, and to the big freight companies. Turnover and training is intense in the 135 companies and it is impossible to find instructors, even ground instructors.

A total mess, a dog's breakfast, a swill. No longer fun, not knowing if the company you work for will even be in business tomorrow. I advise newbies to hurry up and start training because there will be no jobs for them in about five years after the smaller outfits have gone belly up.

Without those 135 companies, and 91 as well, there will be no pool of qualified people for the airlines to dip into and in the not too distant future I forecast that there will be no aviation industry in this country, at least as we know it now. The other countries are not hamstrung by this stupid 1500 hour rule and they are training gangbusters to maintain their ranks. We are not, because we cannot even find instructors or keep them more than a year until they get 1500 hours and disappear. I also forecast that we will be hearing lots of different accents in the US airspace as those pilots are attracted to the airlines here in the USA who cannot find qualified or experienced pilots among the US ranks. Better learn some Chinese and Korean, chaps!

We brag about our safety record. We are at a pinnacle in safety right now. But if we take away our advantage in experience by replacing our pilots with those who have only the bare minimum legal requirements the accident rate must go up. We are already seeing it with the increase in incidents and history shows this is a good indicator of trouble to come.

So the Congress and the FAA have got their plan to destroy aviation moving right along, supported by ALPA, and the rest of us, head in the sand or stunned at the stupidity, can do nothing about it.

[bafanguy]

...banganguy, normally I agree with but in this case I see your post entirely as a paradox in itself.

havick,

Those were boofhead's comments. I remain a skeptic about the shortage...but enjoy hearing boof's perspective.

[boofhead]

banganguy, normally I agree with but in this case I see your post entirely as a paradox in itself.

The real reason we are in this mess in the first place is the old guard legacy pilots that gave away scope (to line their pockets) and allowed regionals blossom into their current size on Z scale wages. Knock on effect being stagnation into the well paid jobs. Obviously age 65 and 9/11 exacerbated the situation, but cannot be blamed in whole.

The last 10-15 years minimal amount of prospective pilots saw Aviation as a viable career, given the poor return on investment, with very minimal odds of bagging a legacy job.

The lack of qualified pilots is, and has always been a pay issue not the 1500 hour rule.


If the regionals weren’t allowed to turn into the bohemith’s as they currently exist, legacy’s would have been able to be more selective as well as grooming/training junior pilots into their system. Too late now the horse has bolted and the previous generation of pilots, unions and greedy bean counters runnning legacy carriers are to blame.

so yes looking back, in part you are right, follow the money. But follow the money back 15-20 years ago when the regionals ramped up as mainline flying was outsourced to the lowest bidders.

chickens are coming home to roost.

I don't know where you sit in the system, but I have had 30 years as an airline captain and am now involved in Part 135 management. I can assure you that there is a shortage of qualified pilots. I advertise hard and rarely get someone who meets my most basic needs, and usually someone else with deeper pockets poaches him before I can even start his training or he will have some shortfall such as no multi turbine time but I will take him and train him and when he has 250 hours multi turbine he leaves to a better job. Usually to the freight companies where he can fly a 747. The stats are clear; the number of pilots in this country have dropped by a large amount at the same time as the airlines need more, creating a vacuum which cannot be filled by legislation. It needs qualified, experienced and trained people at all seat positions and there is simply no supply. Why is that? Poor planning of course, not seeing this threat coming, of course, greed at the top maybe, complacency, whatever, but you have to realise it will take 8 to 10 years to create a SIC and 12 to 15 to create a PIC for the airline level. Those pilots who took those jobs used to have to prove themselves by flying small airplanes, in the bush or whatever, building time that counted, and getting ratings or quals that had a connection to what the employers wanted. Because of the shortage, if a person can climb the stairs to the HR department without collapsing he is qualified. I know guys who I would not employ to wash my car being given jobs as SIC on second-level and regional airlines, or even some in the top airlines merely because they had the required 1500 hours. Or even came close, with promises to put them in company sponsored jobs to build their time. The airlines are desperate and they will pay whatever they need, which is way more than I can pay at my level.
Nothing is being done to fix this problem. It will only get worse and the entire industry is in peril.
There is no work ethic any longer as the liberals have done their best to build the entitlement society, but the biggest hit has been the 1500 hour rule. A rule that had nothing to do with reality, was not driven by the Colgan accident as claimed in fact it makes the causes of the Colgan accident more prevalent. I can only conclude that, as it is usually done in this country, some special interests paid to have it pushed through. And it is supported by ALPA. Look no further.
Now a young'un who wants a career is faced with years more training, years more flying as a CFI or bush pilot in rough conditions, huge increases in debt, merely to have an ability to knock on a regional airline's door and ask for a low paying job as a SIC. No guarantees, no real career prospects, a risk that might not pay off. Why would anyone want to do that? So the youngsters are staying away in droves. There are not enough driven wannabe pilots out there to make it up, as the FAA itself will tell you. It was a crazy idea and it is predictably ruining this industry.
Those of you who are already at the top of course don't know or care, and you seem unable to look ahead to 5 years down the road when your airline too will be reducing flights, losing big money and going into at least Chapter 11. Many bigger airlines will fail as the smaller ones are doing already and suddenly there will be plenty of pilots available for me as they struggle to find jobs to pay back their huge financial liabilities but I fear it will be too late. My jobs will have gone way before that. At the lower end of the scale I am already hurting. I don't know how much longer small operators like ours can last. Probably not 5 years. And it is not due to salaries, it is due to the fact that there are simply no qualified pilots looking for work. So long as they can go directly to the bigger outfits why waste their time?
That must inevitably reduce the standards and it must lead to an uptick in incidents and accidents and it has already caused the loss of many lower-level aviation businesses including Part 135 and airports, and even mechanics are now in short supply.

[A Squared]

...but enjoy hearing boof's perspective.

Meh, my enjoyment of it has sort of diminished with repetition. The bottom line is his 135 operation has a business model of paying pilots a relatively low wage for a relatively high level of commitment of their time. Now the market for pilot labor has changed and they can't find pilots willing to be perpetually on call for the amount they're offering. That's the free market at work. It doesn't always work to keep you supplied labor for unrealistically low salary. His outfit could certainly attract pilots with the requisite Alaska experience who would jump at the chance to be at home, if only they'd offer a competitive wage, and a schedule that didn't have them perpetually on call. But they aren't willing to offer terms and conditions whcih are competitive in today's pilot market.

[A Squared]

I advertise hard and rarely get someone who meets my most basic needs, and usually someone else with deeper pockets poaches him before I can even start his training or he will have some shortfall such as no multi turbine time but I will take him and train him and when he has 250 hours multi turbine he leaves to a better job. Usually to the freight companies where he can fly a 747.

If you offered terms and conditions and a lifestyle that was competitive in *TODAY's* pilot market (Not the pilot market of 10 years ago that you wish still existed) , some of those pilots who are going to the companies who *are* offering competitive T&C would be willing to fly your airplanes. But, you won't offer competitive T&C. It is *THAT* simple.

[bafanguy]

Meh, my enjoyment of it has sort of diminished with repetition.

I listen to everybody. :)

[A Squared]

I listen to everybody. :)

It's one of your more endearing characteristics. ;)

[Australopithecus]

Boofhead, you sound like every other conservative leaning self-entitled management troll bemoaning the lack of serfs to toil in the fields for minimum wage. There is no shortage of workers for companies that offer attractive packages. There always will be a shortage for companies who don't.

My old neighbor used to bitch and moan constantly at the lack of skilled machinists. He was paying $11.00/hr in 2013 when last we spoke, and later had to close his once profitable machine shop. He was pretty bitter about people not wanting to work hard for poverty wages while he enjoyed a plush UMC lifestyle.

“Pay up or shut up” was once considered pithy advice.

[boofhead]

Meh, my enjoyment of it has sort of diminished with repetition. The bottom line is his 135 operation has a business model of paying pilots a relatively low wage for a relatively high level of commitment of their time. Now the market for pilot labor has changed and they can't find pilots willing to be perpetually on call for the amount they're offering. That's the free market at work. It doesn't always work to keep you supplied labor for unrealistically low salary. His outfit could certainly attract pilots with the requisite Alaska experience who would jump at the chance to be at home, if only they'd offer a competitive wage, and a schedule that didn't have them perpetually on call. But they aren't willing to offer terms and conditions whcih are competitive in today's pilot market.

Of course that is an opinion you are entitled to, but there is a limit to what can be paid to the pilots and still break even. If the cost cannot be passed on to the customer, whatever it is for (wages, fuel, maintenance) then the company goes under. That is capitalism and nobody runs a business at a loss. At least for long.

Your comment typifies that of the Millenials, and the liberals, who believe that the world was set up for their benefit and does not require a commitment.

The type of work we do is precisely what you describe; on call, no schedule, demanding flying and a need to be at the top of your game if you are going to fly safely. It is fun, satisfying and challenging. A good pilot would see that and not refuse to give it a go because it does not pay as much as he might think he is worth. I have flown practically everywhere and everything and consider what we do as the best flying job ever. You probably want to fly an Airbus (and face it; you don't really "fly" those), stay in good hotels, have a schedule and a great income, and wear a flash pilot uniform. I am sorry for you if so, because you have not really experienced what aviation can offer. It is not all money.

I would gladly pay more money for a pilot who could do what is needed in this job safely and efficiently but for some time now that pilot does not exist. For example a few years back, before this stupid 1500 hour rule came in and put the stick in the bicycle wheel spokes, I could get a pilot with 4500 hours, 3000 command, 2500 multi engine turbine, and Alaska experience and we paid that guy a salary and flying hours at the top of the scale for Alaska. Now I might get someone with half that time and no multi engine turbine, spend a month or more training him, teaching him how to fly Alaska, then he stays three months and leaves for Atlas. I would be glad to pay pilots what they are worth, but only if the pilots would take a pay cut because some are not worth much at all. Of course I cannot do that but it sticks in my craw to pay less experienced pilots almost double what I would have paid for one who could actually do the job and would honour a commitment to stay and pay back the money and time spent training him.

You obviously see things in a very one-sided manner and believe the world owes you a living. You don't care about the industry; the mess being created that will deny the youngsters who will follow you similar opportunities because the companies that provided you and your mates with a great living and great flying opportunities are soon to go out of business. When we go, the levels above us in the aviation strata will not be far behind.

[A Squared]

Of course that is an opinion you are entitled to, but there is a limit to what can be paid to the pilots and still break even. If the cost cannot be passed on to the customer, whatever it is for (wages, fuel, maintenance) then the company goes under. That is capitalism and nobody runs a business at a loss. At least for long.

Your comment typifies that of the Millenials, and the liberals, who believe that the world was set up for their benefit and does not require a commitment.

The type of work we do is precisely what you describe; on call, no schedule, demanding flying and a need to be at the top of your game if you are going to fly safely. It is fun, satisfying and challenging. A good pilot would see that and not refuse to give it a go because it does not pay as much as he might think he is worth. I have flown practically everywhere and everything and consider what we do as the best flying job ever. You probably want to fly an Airbus (and face it; you don't really "fly" those), stay in good hotels, have a schedule and a great income, and wear a flash pilot uniform. I am sorry for you if so, because you have not really experienced what aviation can offer. It is not all money.

I would gladly pay more money for a pilot who could do what is needed in this job safely and efficiently but for some time now that pilot does not exist. For example a few years back, before this stupid 1500 hour rule came in and put the stick in the bicycle wheel spokes, I could get a pilot with 4500 hours, 3000 command, 2500 multi engine turbine, and Alaska experience and we paid that guy a salary and flying hours at the top of the scale for Alaska. Now I might get someone with half that time and no multi engine turbine, spend a month or more training him, teaching him how to fly Alaska, then he stays three months and leaves for Atlas. I would be glad to pay pilots what they are worth, but only if the pilots would take a pay cut because some are not worth much at all. Of course I cannot do that but it sticks in my craw to pay less experienced pilots almost double what I would have paid for one who could actually do the job and would honour a commitment to stay and pay back the money and time spent training him.

You obviously see things in a very one-sided manner and believe the world owes you a living. You don't care about the industry; the mess being created that will deny the youngsters who will follow you similar opportunities because the companies that provided you and your mates with a great living and great flying opportunities are soon to go out of business. When we go, the levels above us in the aviation strata will not be far behind.

It's interesting that your response is composed of little more than personal attacks. Particularly interesting considering that a quick look at my profile and a modicum of situational awareness would have tipped you off just how badly off base your accusations are. The current A/C type in particular should have been food for thought, though you don't seem inclined toward such. (hmmmm, who flies those? ... there's that outfit 4 buildings down from my office, and, and .... I can't really think of any other company operating that type ...hmmmm) The type prior was the DC-6. Close to a decade on that one ... Are you beginning to suspect how absurd your accusations are about Airbuses and uniforms? You should be. So, spare me your hubris about not having "experienced what aviation can offer" I doubt there's many places in Alaska that you've flown that I haven't. Do you have something other than personal attacks based on erroneous assumptions? It seems not.

we paid that guy a salary and flying hours at the top of the scale for Alaska.

No, you absolutely did not.


The type of work we do is precisely what you describe; on call, no schedule, demanding flying and a need to be at the top of your game if you are going to fly safely. It is fun, satisfying and challenging. A good pilot would see that and not refuse to give it a go because it does not pay as much as he might think he is worth.

Translation: We want to own you, 24/7/365, we're not going to pay you a competitive wage, but we expect you to be grateful for this.

You really just can't understand why they're not lining up at your door, can you?


.

[boofhead]

It's interesting that your response is composed of little more than personal attacks. Particularly interesting considering that a quick look at my profile and a modicum of situational awareness would have tipped you off just how badly off base your accusations are. The current A/C type in particular should have been food for thought, though you don't seem inclined toward such. (hmmmm, who flies those? ... there's that outfit 4 buildings down from my office, and, and .... I can't really think of any other company operating that type ...hmmmm) The type prior was the DC-6. Close to a decade on that one ... Are you beginning to suspect how absurd your accusations are about Airbuses and uniforms? You should be. So, spare me your hubris about not having "experienced what aviation can offer" I doubt there's many places in Alaska that you've flown that I haven't. Do you have something other than personal attacks based on erroneous assumptions? It seems not.



No, you absolutely did not.



Translation: We want to own you, 24/7/365, we're not going to pay you a competitive wage, but we expect you to be grateful for this.

You really just can't understand why they're not lining up at your door, can you?


.

I did not mean to be personally insulting, I am speaking in general about an attitude rather than at a particular person. We have always paid at or close to the top and will pay individuals more if they offer more. However those people do not exist any longer. We pay what we need to get the best available, as does every other company. We are the only ones who do this type of flying exclusively so those who fly scheduled services have a different way to account for the time and hence pay. I would love to have an across the board pay increase but it seems that would not help much without putting us into bankruptcy, and the more offered, the more is demanded in this new world. Corporate and major airlines are the only ones who can magically fix everything with dollars.

Because we are on demand, we have to fly to meet that requirement and we cannot operate with fixed schedules or fixed duty times without increasing the number of pilots we have by maybe 50 percent and because we do not have enough pilots in the first place, this is impossible.

I have to work in the real world and I can tell you that it is bad and getting worse.

[A Squared]

Because we are on demand, we have to fly to meet that requirement and we cannot operate with fixed schedules or fixed duty times without increasing the number of pilots we have by maybe 50 percent and because we do not have enough pilots in the first place, this is impossible.

Yet, somehow, hundreds of non-scheduled operators who do on demand charters or similarly structured flying find it possible to have sufficient staff to have schedules other than "we expect you to be available all hours of every day".

[boofhead]

Yet, somehow, hundreds of non-scheduled operators who do on demand charters or similarly structured flying find it possible to have sufficient staff to have schedules other than "we expect you to be available all hours of every day".

You seem to not get it: there are no pilots out there. Even if I wanted to do as you say, there is no evidence that the pilots want it that way; they all want to make money and they won't make money sitting at home. There are no qualified pilots coming in my door or contacting me for a full time job. I am on several job boards with ads in the system and only once in a while do I get any pilots who live in Alaska or are willing to move here, much less have the quals I need. I am forced to use part time pilots who take the same amount of training, tech, proficiency and line, to get up to speed enough to do the simple flights as does a full time pilot, but I have to repeat it for at least three times with part time pilots to create the same availability as one full time pilot.

BTW I know of no company in Alaska that does what we do. Some do on demand in between scheduled flights, but that is not the same and I am sure you know that.

But never mind that; I am sure you have no knowledge of this subject because if you did you would understand the problem and not push the agenda that money cures every ill.

I get a lot of 200-300 hour pilots with Private certificates, but cannot take them because we don't fly two pilot and I have no way to train someone from scratch. I have reduced the experience requirement drastically but it has not helped; I am still short of manpower. I am working my guys hard, I know that, but have no choice. I would be better off having twice the number of pilots than I have and working them less, but again none of my pilots want that; they want the money. Or they want to build hours quickly to have enough to approach the Cargo/Airlines.

But the problem is not just whether I am a good manager or not, or pay enough, it is the fact that there is a severe shortage of pilots. Real pilots, those who can do the job without years of training. Even the majors have that problem and it will bite them in the butt soon when the accident rate goes up, especially when these relatively inexperienced pilots are put in the left seat and suddenly have to start making decisions.

We need tens of thousands of pilots on the bottom of the pyramid to support the hundreds at the top. It is unbalanced now and getting worse. When the 65 year old captains retire, which will be soon, they will be replaced by pilots who have not seen as much or done as much as they did when they were promoted to Captain and the next generation will have even less time in the job. I cannot see how the great safety record established by the present pilots can possibly be maintained and I forecast an uptick in incidents and accidents. Solely due to the 1500 hour rule which also puts this country at a severe disadvantage compared to the rest of the world. I doubt if any US pilot would have done anything better than the Lion Air guys, especially if they are just button pushers.

I am not the only person blowing this whistle, there are many who see the problem now. It worries me that anyone can support the 1500 hour rule with the damage it has done already and will continue to do so. Even some of my friends in the FAA agree with me. I read a recent advertisement for Inspectors to join the FAA as potential POIs and in the third or so page of the list of required qualifications it said that to be successful, an applicant had to have had no more than 2 pilot error accidents in the last 3 years. If that doesn't make your head spin, it should.

[A Squared]

BTW I know of no company in Alaska that does what we do. Some do on demand in between scheduled flights, but that is not the same and I am sure you know that.

No, there's nobody in Alaska who does *exactly* what your outfit does, but just as a single example, the medevac companies are pretty much un-scheduled on demand with their pilots on call. And guess what? Their pilots are not permanently on call, they have reserve schedules. they have time off. They have days they can call their own. That's just one example, there are other flight operations, in and out of Alaska whose operations are for the most part, on-demand with pilots on call; corporate flight departments, ad-hoc freight haulers, etc. Some have reserve schedules, some do not. I would venture to say that the ones who, like you, expect their few pilots to be perpetually on call, also like you, have a hard time attracting pilots in today's market. Never having a day you can call your own, except in retrospect, is a miserable way to live.

You seem to not get it: there are no pilots out there. Even if I wanted to do as you say, there is no evidence that the pilots want it that way; they all want to make money and they won't make money sitting at home. There are no qualified pilots coming in my door or contacting me for a full time job. I am on several job boards with ads in the system and only once in a while do I get any pilots who live in Alaska or are willing to move here, much less have the quals I need.

You have a pretty serious disconnect going here. You have never offered a competitive salary with a livable schedule, yet somehow you *know* that even if you did offer that, there still would be no pilots, applying. Most people can see the obvious logic flaw in that.

This is probably a waste of my time here, but I can explain why you're not getting applications. You see, even though you don't publish salaries and the details of your employment conditions, you're fooling yourself if you think it's some sort of secret. You see, when a pilot sees an ad for pilots from "Boofhead's Premium Air Taxi Service" they either are already familiar with your terms and conditions, from having known pilots who have worked there, or by word of mouth, or they ask around, and the answer comes back: "Yeah, they don't pay much and they expect you to be available to the company with no time off. " So most pilots say, "umm, no thanks" and don't apply.

[Tinstaafl]

Calculating rest in retrospect is also illegal. The FAA's legal branch has been consistent in their replies to various requests for interpretations. For it to count as rest, it must be prospective ie planned ahead of time, and must be free of all duty. Doesn't matter if it's within 24 hrs, weekly, fortnightly, monthly or whatever. 'On call' is not free of duty. It's not necessarily 'duty', but it is not 'rest'.

[JoeTripodi]

Skywest are no longer hiring Australian pilots on the E3 visa. Supposedly the current pilots will be allowed to renew but who knows how long for. If I was still there I would be preparing a plan B.

[zondaracer]

Skywest are no longer hiring Australian pilots on the E3 visa. Supposedly the current pilots will be allowed to renew but who knows how long for. If I was still there I would be preparing a plan B.
Interesting, but I’m not surprised. With the new pay rates at SkyWest, they hired 122 pilots in October.

[A Squared]

Calculating rest in retrospect is also illegal. The FAA's legal branch has been consistent in their replies to various requests for interpretations. For it to count as rest, it must be prospective ie planned ahead of time, and must be free of all duty. Doesn't matter if it's within 24 hrs, weekly, fortnightly, monthly or whatever. 'On call' is not free of duty. It's not necessarily 'duty', but it is not 'rest'.

Yeah, there's that too.

[pilotchute]

Interesting, but I’m not surprised. With the new pay rates at SkyWest, they hired 122 pilots in October.

Problem is they aren't pilots who are getting back into aviation. They are just jumping from other regionals.

Even with the new pay rates you need to fly max hours to gross 45k a year.

[zondaracer]

Problem is they aren't pilots who are getting back into aviation. They are just jumping from other regionals.

Even with the new pay rates you need to fly max hours to gross 45k a year.
I grossed that my first year when pay was $30 an hour.

Regardless of where the pilots are coming from, my point was that with the new pay scales, it makes sense that SkyWest now has plenty of candidates and does not need to necessarily pull from the E3 visa pool.

[bafanguy]

Problem is they aren't pilots who are getting back into aviation. They are just jumping from other regionals.

Interesting. I knew pilots were doing some of that, e.g., ASA to EDV, but I have no way to quantify it.

Then at some point, some regional will end up short ? What will they do then ? Will the E3 pool still look like a solution ?

[pilotchute]

At one regional I know of 80% of classes are made up of people who already have 121 time.

Just chasing the bonus.

[bafanguy]

Another "pathway" to a regional is formalized between Pan Am Academy and Express jet. Licenses-CFI-regional format:

Pan Am International Flight Academy and ExpressJet Sign Pilot Pathway Agreement (http://aviationtribune.com/training/pan-am-international-flight-academy-and-expressjet-sign-pilot-pathway-agreement/)

I would expect XJT is having a tough time recruiting since their upgrade time is so long compared to other regionals but I don't have access to inside info anymore.

Well, I see this is old info that I posted previously(senior moment) but I'd still like to know how XJT is doing with recruitment and if this pathway is having any effect.

[bafanguy]

Here's a 9 minute podcast where the head of pilot development at American Airlines talks about their Cadet Academy. Early on he used the term "restricted ATP" but went on to mention having 1500 hours so perhaps he misspoke. However, Spartan is on the FAA list of colleges authorized for the R-ATP (didn't know that):

https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/atp/media/Institutional_Authority_List.pdf

It's the now typical tickets-to-CFI-to-regional format. But you get a "guaranteed interview" at an AA wholly-owned regional. He says they have 6000+ apps to the program:

https://cdn.avweb.com/media/podcast/American_Airlines_Cadet_Academy_Podcast_Final.mp3

[zondaracer]

You can still get a restricted ATP at 1500 hours without attending a university program. Your ATP will be restricted if you are under 23 years old or if you have more than 200 hours cross country but less than 500 hours cross country.

[bafanguy]

You can still get a restricted ATP at 1500 hours without attending a university program. Your ATP will be restricted if you are under 23 years old or if you have more than 200 hours cross country but less than 500 hours cross country.

Z,

Thanks. I was aware of the age thing but not the XC requirement. I guess I made the unconscious assumption that people aiming for this program would be older. Probably not a valid assumption.

So much to know...so little time.

[wilsha]

If anyone is interested in coming to COMMUTAIR in the US, PM me. It's a good time to be coming in, we are hiring 300 pilots. A new contract will be in place at the end of next year and you'll be upgrading at 950 hrs on type ( 12-16 months). The Training is good, they put the time and effort into getting you through if you are learning the US system.

[zondaracer]

LOL someone is trying to get a referral bonus.

[zondaracer]

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/skywest-to-sell-expressjet-airlines-to-united-jv-manaair-quick-facts-1027817528

[bafanguy]

What is ManaAir, LLC ? A holding company ? Google didn't really answer the question.

[zondaracer]

What is ManaAir, LLC ? A holding company ? Google didn't really answer the question.
yup, pretty much. This way, United can own a minority share of Expressjet. The FA contract at United says that if United is a majority share of a regional airline, then the FAs at said airline will be under the mainline FA contract. This would make a majority owned regional expensive.

[bafanguy]

yup, pretty much. This way, United can own a minority share of Expressjet. The FA contract at United says that if United is a majority share of a regional airline, then the FAs at said airline will be under the mainline FA contract. This would make a majority owned regional expensive.



Z,

Sounds like it. Here's an article explaining the shell game. Too early to know what it means for the relationship between UAL and XJT pilots:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/skywest-to-sell-expressjet-to-united-joint-venture-454518/

[atpcliff]

Yesterday, the CEO of Commutair resigned. They are partially owned (like ExpressJet) by UAL. One rumour is that Commutair and XPJet will be merged. Another rumour is flow through from XJ and/or CA/XJ to UAL... Currently, XJ is having a net loss of about 50 pilots/month. I think UAL was counting on those pilots almost all going to UAL, and, with the current situation, UAL realized that they needed to own a regional and have flow through so as not to suffer greatly from a pilot shortage.

My airline is in contract talks, and this will help us a LOT, as XJ was our #1 source of pilots the last 2-3 years. With UAL buying them, and probably giving them a flow through, a lot less of them will leave for airlines like mine.

[bafanguy]

Not sure how long PSA has had a cadet program but this below appeared on jsfirm.com today. Follows the formulaic path of tickets, CFI, regional with a reference to flow to AA someday.

The wording difference between the jsfirm posting and PSA's own careers website is interesting.

jsfirm post says:

“ New hires at PSA are projected to flow to American Airlines after only 6 years.”


https://www.jsfirm.com/job/Pilot-Fixed+Wing/PSA+Pilot+Cadet+Program+/Dayton-Ohio/jobID_490780

And the PSA careers site says:

“Guaranteed flow through to American Airlines in 6-7 years”

https://psaairlines.com/cadets

[bafanguy]

I don't hear much about them but ViaAir is hiring:

https://jobs.flyviaair.com/pilots/

[bafanguy]

ExpressJet ups the ante:

New-Hire Bonus Now $22,000!
+$5k with eligible type rating


EARN $66,100 IN YOUR FIRST YEAR!
$71,100 with an eligible type rating

https://www.expressjet.com/careers/pilots/

[Wizofoz]

ExpressJet ups the ante:

New-Hire Bonus Now $22,000!
+$5k with eligible type rating


EARN $66,100 IN YOUR FIRST YEAR!
$71,100 with an eligible type rating

https://www.expressjet.com/careers/pilots/

We're seeing a lot of these ads in Australia- but, correct me if I'm wrong, the "66,100 in your first year" is inclusive of a sign-on bonus of 22k- so your SECOND year earnings are more like 44k?

Still not great money!!

[bafanguy]

...the "66,100 in your first year" is inclusive of a sign-on bonus of 22k- so your SECOND year earnings are more like 44k?

Still not great money!!

That's my understanding. And yes, it's still not ideal money.