flykiwiair.co.nz

[BNEA320]

commencing flying 2 months from today


Media Releases | Kiwi Regional Airlines (http://flykiwiair.co.nz/media-releases/)

[WOOLLY]

They still need an AOC. We'll see!

[phildan89]

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/s720x720/11914899_830692833711981_6075142582271782148_n.jpg?oh=f462df b7e92611d0a63f085898739a94&oe=567350DA

I must be missing something, but given QN is a day-only airport, how do they expect to make these flights (particularly the evening one) for like 5 months of the year when it's dark at 6:05pm?

[rammel]

I may be wrong, but isn't Queenstown about to be approved for night operations?

[Mr & Mrs Rocketboots]

Can't see there being night ops at ZQN for non-RNP-AR approaches or departures if night ops do commence.

[waren9]

20sec search shows a summer and winter sched on the website

[BNEA320]

their 1st Saab 340 arrived in NZL last week.


Media Releases | Kiwi Regional Airlines (http://flykiwiair.co.nz/media-releases/)

[Ollie Onion]

Every aviation venture that this guy has touched has turned to crap, I wouldn't be too quick to put any money anywhere near it.

[BNEA320]

the actions of dodgy Air NZ, in sending Kiwi International to the wall, should have been challenged at the time. Freedom Air, operated at a loss, to kill them off. Highly illegal practices.


It should also be noted, that without a govt bailout, Air NZ wouldn't exist.

[Ollie Onion]

^^^ why should that be noted?? My point is that the last airline this guy was involved in resulted in lots of stranded passengers, aircraft being seized for non payment of airways charges and the director being convicted of 4 serious fraud charges, banned from operating a company for 5 years and the judge saying 'the director operated with NO moral regard'!

But hey, if you want to spend money on this venture don't let me stop you.

Just beacause a competitor puts you out of business doesn't stop you from pulling the pin earlier than this mob did resulting in 'misery' for lots of people.

[DeltaT]

I see Air NZ fares have dropped in some places and Jetstar hasn't even started flying the Q300s yet.

[waren9]

….Freedom Air, operated at a loss, to kill them off. Highly illegal practices.

eh?

didnt know the operating accounts of freedom were public? and even if they were, whats illegal about selling something for less than it cost you?

[27/09]

BNEA320: the actions of dodgy Air NZ, in sending Kiwi International to the wall, should have been challenged at the time. Freedom Air, operated at a loss, to kill them off. Highly illegal practices.


It should also be noted, that without a govt bailout, Air NZ wouldn't exist.

Hmmm, I think Freedom operated for well after Kiwi folded, then the Freedom operation was rolled up into Air NZ mainline. I'm not sure your claim is correct.

Sure Air NZ took the battle to your friend Ewan, but only after he took them on head on. If he had stuck to routes not operated by Air NZ they would have left him alone. He didn't heed good advice though and cost a lot of people a lot of money.

As for the Air NZ bailout. Air New Zealand has to take some blame BUT the need for the bailout was largely brought about by dodgy underhand practices on the west side of the Tasman. The under arm bowling fiasco had nothing on the events that lead up to the bailout.

[Captain Condom]

Ha ha. To all you people who think that air nz didn't employ bullying tactics to put kiwi international out of business, (along with origin and various predecessors) - what planet are you from? Watch this space as the shoe is now on the other foot - for once air nz isn't the biggest dog in the fight now that Jetstar is operating domestically. Ethical, no, but since when has business been about ethics?

[waren9]

qantas is bigger than the nz govt?

[Ollie Onion]

I am no defender of Air NZ but no one who sets up business in competition to anyone surely can't be surprised when the competitor uses its resources to squash you.

I don't get you saying that it is 'illegal' to lower your prices and make a loss to undercut your competitor. Many many businesses do exactly this to try and prevent a competitor gaining market share.

[empacher48]

I find it rather funny that people believe that Air NZ should do nothing when someone else starts competing with them. At the end of the day they are a business and no business is happy when people spend their money with someone else doing the same thing.

The CEO and board will ultimately have to explain themselves to the shareholders if profitability goes up in smoke because someone else competes and the CEO and board do nothing about that.

And get over the whole Government Investment. Yes they bought 75% of the company some 14 years ago, this has now reduced to 52%. They have no responsibility to the NZ Government other than providing income to the Government in the form of both taxes and dividend payments.

[BNEA320]

apparently Wilson stretched the truth to a few wanka bankers, who didn't do their due diligence. How can you feel sorry for wanka bankers who didn't do their jobs.

[27/09]

He also left a lot of other innocent folk out of pocket, people who did their jobs, not just the bankers you refer to.

[waren9]

apparently Wilson stretched the truth to a few wanka bankers, who didn't do their due diligence. How can you feel sorry for wanka bankers who didn't do their jobs.

apparently?

you wouldnt have a fkn clue.

[BNEA320]

& waren you have a clue ??????

[27/09]

Pilat: Ewan Wilson should have never been let anywhere near another Airline, and it would not surprise me if CAA decline the AOC.

Now that might be a tad embarrassing since I think two of the head honchos in the KiwiAir operation recently worked at CAA.

[BNEA320]

yeh I don't think they have any reason to not grant the AOC. Statute of limitations.

[plainmaker]

Statute of Limitations does not apply - the test is 'a fit and proper person'. The basis for determining that goes back to the day you were born if needs be.

[Aerozepplin]

He only needs FPP approval if he decides to hold a senior persons role like CEO, Ops manager, etc. The press releases seemed to suggest he’s CEO, but if the feds give him grief (and “honesty crimes” like fraud would likely be grounds to) then hiring an outside CEO and taking another senior management position would be an option. Sounds expensive.

[BNEA320]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0qNecSSvos&feature=youtu.be

[BNEA320]

proving flight(s) next week, start regular ops week after. Apparently many small towns in New Zealand are lining up to try & get Kiwi to fly to their airport.


Makes sense, as long as the big black rat(NZ) don't fly the exact route.


Wonder if 2nd aircraft is on its way yet.

[27/09]

Yawn who cares Yawn

[waren9]

the black rat isnt concerned.

the orange rat will do black rats work on ewan for free.

[framer]

And then the orange rat will go to work on the black rat.
5 planes, 15 planes , 35 planes, who cares, it's just a drop in the bucket man.

[waren9]

maybe. but thats for another thread.

9 jets plus 5 dh8s will be 14 very soon, yes?

whos going bust first? ewan or robert?

[framer]

I dunno but the whole thing plays into the hands of the adage that the industry looks totally different every ten years.if I had to bet I would say Jetstar and ANZ will find a way to live with each other and everyone else will slip away.

[BNEA320]

once they have their NZ AOC they could feasibly fly domestically in Australia but under NZCAA rules not CASA rules. think Vincent NZL did that with their BAE146 til May last year.

[Ollie Onion]

Yep, that worked out well for Vincent :ugh:

Doesn't matter what kiwi airs competition is, they will be bust within a year and lots of people will be out of pocket. You simply can't fly that schedule through ZQN with a single SAAB and not suffer massive disruption along the way, I hope they have a massive fund for passenger recovery around the country.

[LPS500]

BNEA320, FFS they have 1 Saab, why do you think they would try to operate in Oz? :ugh: Yes Vincent did that with the 146, but they also had a base in Darwin with VH reg aircraft. The 146 was the downfall of Vincent (sort of) and finished them off. This is not a thread about Vincent so I’ll stop there.

Ollie, agreed. I’ve been wondering for some time where the money from the pre-booked tickets (if any) is currently sitting?

I wish them luck but there’s no AOC at the moment, proving flights yet to be done, and the FPP to pass for some.

One aircraft will present problems due unserviceability, and scheduled maintenance. Do they / will they have a maintenance presence at any of their scheduled ports of call?

As a round up, there are a lot of questions regarding this startup which I guess will come out in the wash………….. I guess we just watch this space……….

[BNEA320]

Saab 340's are cheap to lease or buy esp A models, esp cf. similar sized Dash 8's. No 2 & 3 can't be that far away.

[27/09]

BNEA320: Saab 340's are cheap to lease or buy esp A models, esp cf. similar sized Dash 8's. No 2 & 3 can't be that far away.

Unless you're a collector, you need work for the aircraft to justify to your backers that you should buy or lease it. So far they haven't proven they have work for the one they already have.

[empacher48]

I guess things aren't looking too rosy for Ewan:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/73192252/airport-tractor-ban-ageist

and

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/73015998/kiwi-regional-airlines-unhappy-with-queenstown-airport-and-ticket-sales

But hey, any publicity must be good publicity... right?

[On Track]

Had to laugh when I saw the photo of that tractor.

With regard to Queenstown, nobody is particularly happy with the airport operator but if gate 1 is good enough for the ATR pax it's good enough for the Saab pax as well - if there are any.

[Steve Zissou]

Wow, ticket sales have been awful on the DUD-ZQN sector. Who would've guessed ...

[Ollie Onion]

Good luck to them. Bit strange to be complaining about the stand at ZQN that is allocated to ALL turboprops? I would be suprised if he gets any interest in tickets for that route, not worth the effort to fly.

[BNEA320]

Approval to fly 'a dream come true' | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/73301812/Approval-to-fly-a-dream-come-true)


Looks like they've got their AOC & can now do anything NZ or JQ do, if they wanted to.


Wonder how hard it would be to upgrade their AOC to include bigger aircraft ?




Heard that 2nd aircraft is on it's way.


Freight ?


Maybe they'll get a QC aircraft.

[Ollie Onion]

BNEA320,

I always thought you were just completely out of touch but I have now realized that you are just a wind-up merchant. :}

They aren't going to last 12 months let alone have any reason to get bigger aircraft.

[wishiwasupthere]

Now that they've got a NZ AOC surely the next logical step is to operate in Australia on the Kiwi AOC and knock QLink and Rex out of action with one fowl swoop? :}:}

[waren9]

fell.

Looks like they've got their AOC & can now do anything NZ or JQ do, if they wanted to.

Wonder how hard it would be to upgrade their AOC to include bigger aircraft ?

wut? 121 is as big as it gets doofus. but you already knew that. ollie finally gets you

[BNEA320]

plenty of opportunity for a New Zealand airline in Australia. Operating under NZCAA rules, must be one hell of a lot easier (& therefore much cheaper) than dealing with CASA.

[Mach E Avelli]

Almost anything would be cheaper and easier than dealing with CASA.
What history tells us, though, is that if any new player even thinks about starting an operation in Australia, the incumbents close ranks and see them off.
So our Kiwi start up would need more money than any of Rex, Tiger, Virgin, QANTAS etc.
Most small operators are borderline bankrupt anyway, so what does this say about viability?
Then there is the usual hassle of dealing with airports to get terminal space. Then cash in hand to get going. Lots of cash. Millions of cash. Look at Free Spirit. Even with terminal space they can't even fund crew training, let alone proving flights.
The Aussie public has been burned by too many past failures to show any confidence with forward bookings, so a new player would need to have a war chest to fly empty and on time, every published time, for six months before anyone with half a brain would book a seat with them.

BNEA320 how many people have to tell you these basic facts of life?

[Skystar320]

plenty of opportunity for a New Zealand airline in Australia. Operating under NZCAA rules, must be one hell of a lot easier (& therefore much cheaper) than dealing with CASA.

BNE320 you are annoying!

[BNEA320]

MAck E we're talking Saab 340's not A380's. They wouldn't be flying from busy city airports much & talking routes that aren't currently flown or not flown nonstop by the likes of Rex.


Most of costs are already there.


How much does it cost to lease a Saab ? $25k/month ?


Does a NZ AOC holder need to do proving flights ?


Plenty of charter type work + could probably operate regular scheduled charters & not be subject to CASA RPT rules.


There's some confusion, as in NZL there's no differentiation between charter & RPT apparently.

[BNEA320]

yes but skystar, think we might be correct

[BNEA320]

so Pilat, what do you think that means ?


Unfortunately, might have to be an aviation lawyer to clarify that, which I am not.

[Ollie Onion]

Things are roaring along, perhaps a bit more research would have been in order.

Kiwi Regional Airlines cuts back on Queenstown flights due to lack of demand | Stuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/73379803/kiwi-regional-airlines-cuts-back-on-queenstown-flights-due-to-lack-of-demand)

Time for a second aircraft!!

[cnsnz]

Things are roaring along, perhaps a bit more research would have been in order.

Kiwi Regional Airlines cuts back on Queenstown flights due to lack of demand | itsStuff.co.nz (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/73379803/kiwi-regional-airlines-cuts-back-on-queenstown-flights-due-to-lack-of-demand)

Time for a second aircraft!!
Day one and the plans not looking good?

[Ollie Onion]

Just shows what a shoestring budget they must be operating on. Most start up companies would persevere for a few months to see if they can 'build' a route. Pulling the pin on day one due to forward bookings shows a distinct lack of funds.

[Cloud Cutter]

It also shows a distinct lack of market research. I don't know of anyone (except Mr Wilson) who thought DUD-ZQN would be viable. It's like HLZ-AKL, but without all the connections.

[27/09]

BNEA320:Heard that 2nd aircraft is on it's way.


Freight ?


Maybe they'll get a QC aircraft.

Yeah I heard that too.

Not freight or QC...... Just a nicely painted model to go on Ewan's desk.:p

[BNEA320]

so they could easily fly domestically in Australia under NZCAA rules ?

[On Track]

According to the Otago Daily Times there were 19 pax on the inaugural flight from Dunedin to Queenstown.

They're already talking about scaling back the services to Mondays and Fridays only.

[BNEA320]

heard that DUD/ZQN/DUD flights aren't going that well, but rest are doing very well, so they may adjust the DUD/ZQN flights accordingly.


DUD/ZQN is a very short sector or 3 hour drive ?


This sector might only work if someone was flying DUD/OZ. DUD/OZ fares are usually significantly cheaper than ZQN/OZ fares.


Sometimes AUD$300-$500+ difference per person, which is significant, especially if number of members of family involved & many people on tight budgets these days.

[Skystar320]

Why would they want to fly in Australia? There is no work for them. Work that is there has already been snapped up.

I'm surprised you don't suggest kiwi air should buy the VARA FK50's and run them trans tasman? under 20tonne rule... right?

[BNEA320]

quote


Why would they want to fly in Australia? There is no work for them. Work that is there has already been snapped up.

I'm surprised you don't suggest kiwi air should buy the VARA FK50's and run them trans tasman? under 20tonne rule... right?


>>>


wow you just don't get it. There's plenty of work in Australia for aircraft under 20 tonnes that aren't subject to any noise curfews.


Many Australian airlines are overburdened with bureaucracy, that NZL airlines aren't. Bureaucracy costs enormous amounts just to comply.




F50's only any good if the MTOW can be reduced to under 20 tonnes, as some were that came out of the factory, that weren't HGW models.

[Skystar320]

wow you just don't get it. There's plenty of work in Australia for aircraft under 20 tonnes that aren't subject to any noise curfews.

What work????

If that's the case you should set up your own consultancy service and be a broker, you make millions!

Oh wait... there is no business :mad::mad::mad:

[BNEA320]

skystone, if you can't see it, not going to tell you again.

[Skystar320]

It's Skystar...

I'm asking the question WHAT WORK? Australian operators would be happy to entertain you if it means giving them work

[BNEA320]

I keep telling you Australian AOC holders costs are too high. New Zealand AOC holders costs are much much less. Not having to deal with CASA must save them millions.

[Ollie Onion]

^^^^ Rubbish!

[BNEA320]

what's rubbish ? Are you trying to tell us all that dealing with CASA is just as easy as dealing with NZCAA ?

[Ollie Onion]

No, I am just saying that the difference between one or the other is not 'millions'.

[BNEA320]

it is millions if you are setting up in Australia, versus having everything already set up in New Zealand.

[Ollie Onion]

So what are you trying to say??

If two companies both setting up in their respective countries have to apply for a new AOC, are you saying the one in Australia will have to pay millions more for their AOC due to CASA regs?

Or are you stating the obvious that a company with an existing AOC in NZ could save a lot of money by using the NZ AOC in Australia as opposed to starting up there with a new CASA AOC

Where are all of these money making routes in OZ that a kiwi airline could exploit that don't require a government or state licence to fly the route?

[On Track]

Kiwi Regional Airlines pulling out of Queenstown at the end of the month.

[TT738]

obviously any NZ airline can fly within Australia without restriction. Don't even think they have to have much interaction with CASA.

Plenty of routes that aren't flown.

With much lower costs, a NZ airline, can operate thinner OZ domestic routes profitably, that an Australian airline can't make profitable.

Crazy but true.

It's like Australia paying the Kiwis something like $21 million a year to dump their wine in OZ, whereas the OZ winemaker gets SFA & has to pay tax on their wine.

[troppo]

It's like Australia paying the Kiwis something like $21 million a year to dump their wine in OZ, whereas the OZ winemaker gets SFA & has to pay tax on their wine.

small price to pay for better wine

[LPS500]

Please give it a break BNEA320/TT738 its getting boring now. :=