Repro "Spitfire" doing aeros north of Newhaven, Sx..

[Downwind Lander]

Has anyone seen what appeared to be a Spitfire but not with a Merlin or Griffon swooping over southern England this afternoon? Half a dozen miles north of Newhaven - Rodmell or thereabouts in Sussex. Big lazy loops from 500ft to 1500ft (height estimates not reliable).

Maybe this is part of a planned event. If it isn't, he or she may be about to enter the mother of all piles of do-dos.

[Simplythebeast]

Appeared to be a Spitfire but not with Merlin or Griffon.....probably a Twister...

Photos: Silence Twister Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Silence-Twister/1418478/L/)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Why is the pilot of an aeroplane flying aeros with a 500ft hard deck, away from a conurbation, in trouble? Lower than I'd be comfortable personally, and possibly a little antisocial, but can't see why this should create a problem legally?

G

[Rod1]

Assuming the aircraft was cleared for aeros (the Twister is), and he did not infringe anything, I do not understand what the problem is?

Rod1

[Downwind Lander]

I must have got my height estimate wrong. He was a couple of miles away. All I can say is that as he pulled out of the loop, going from 9 o' clock to 8 o' clock to 7 o' clock, he then disappeared behind the trees. I was waiting for a column of smoke before dialing 999. But he didn't re-appear. He may have done a steep turn at around 0 feet and motored to another part of his area. This frightened me plenty until he re-appeared elsewhere.

He was good. He had panache. Only loops. No cuban eights, stall turns, barrel or slow rolls which made me think that this was not a regular display.

I've looked at the Twister on google. It could have been one except he had two cannons halfway along the leading edges. They may have been a "faux" add-on. Phenomenal vertical rate of climb and a deep throaty engine sound.

[Heston]

Two miles away and you could see cannons on the wings? I don't think so.

[Downwind Lander]

You're quite right.

But he was covering a lot of sky and a lot of space. When he was near, that feature was clear.

[maxred]

Careful with that axe Eugene:cool:

[patowalker]

Aerobatics over Swanborough Farm showed up on SD today.

[Simplythebeast]

A spitfire replica without a merlin or griffon....thats like a full English without egg, sausage, or bacon. Pointless.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Is the Mk.26b now cleared for aeros in the UK?

G

[maxred]

http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/4548260/ao-2013-051_final.pdf stated: “The aircraft was prone to aerodynamically stall with little or no aerodynamic precursors and it was not fitted with a stall warning device, increasing the risk of inadvertent stall.”

I would be surprised.....

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've flown, and stalled, a standard UK version MK.26 - it didn't strike me as lacking adequate aerodynamic stall warning, and the stall was only averagely unpleasant - not unlike a PA38. In the case you've quoted, that aeroplane was on final to land - not an aerobatic manoeuvre. Stall and overstress avoidance in high g manoeuvring rely also upon stick force per g, which is an additional warning.

Apart from which, the Mk.26b is a larger and more powerful aeroplane with, doubtless, subtly different characteristics anyhow.

Also, few overseas aeroplanes gain UK approval without some modification.

So, basically, I'd not read anything into that report with regard to aerobatic approvals in the UK.

G

[Mach Jump]

Hi DL.

Is there a point to this thread, beyond the urge to 'drop someone in it'? :=

The Mk26 Spitfire, if indeed that is what it was, is not, as yet cleared for aerobatics in the UK, although I believe that the other Spitfire scale replica, the Isaacs Spitfire, is.

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Building,%20Buying%20or%20Importing/TL%201.09%20Aircraft%20Cleared%20for%20Aerobatics.pdf


MJ:ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

I note that that list is 4 years old - quite possibly other aircraft have been approved for aeros since.

I do agree with your sentiment - this does just read like a desire to drop somebody in it who was apparently just enjoying some aeros in a quiet spot.

G

[cambioso]

The 26b is not cleared for aeros in the UK. The Aussie and USA versions are.

[patowalker]

Could it have been this display?

Q) EGTT/QWALW/IV/M/W/000/035/5052N00001W002
B) FROM: 15/08/09 13:00C) TO: 15/08/09 14:00
E) AIR DISPLAY/AEROBATICS (WI 10 MIN PERIOD) WI 1.5NM RADIUS 505152N
0000118W (VCY LEWES, EAST SUSSEX). OPS CTC 07710 809763.
15-08-0320/AS4.
LOWER: SFC
UPPER: 3500FT AMSL

[Downwind Lander]

Yes, It works out perfectly.

[Downwind Lander]

@Mach Jump.

Because I could see him doing only loops, a manoevre which is as impressive as it is easy (at height) he didn't seem like a fully fledged display pilot.

There are times when a tap on the shoulder, if it can be arranged, can save someone from charging into the ground and ending up in a pool of burning fuel along with some bystanders.

[Tonight - Travel Channel - 10.00pm - "Airshow" ]
.

[Rod1]

"There are times when a tap on the shoulder, if it can be arranged, can save someone from charging into the ground and ending up in a pool of burning fuel along with some bystanders. "

But this was not one of them - not even close:ugh:

Rod1

[Downwind Lander]

You didn't stand where I stood. I was ready to dial 999.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Close enough to see guns but not registration.

And knowledgeable enough to know whether somebody is an experienced display pilot, but not to check the NOTAMs.

G

[Downwind Lander]

Cannons are easy to spot - they break the line of the leading edge. No reg at all. As for NOTAMS, it would no more have occurred to me to check than it would occur to me to launch a battleship with no bottom (respect: WSC). It did not occur to me that this could be an official event.

[FleetFlyer]

I exceeded the speed limit in my car today DL, perhaps you would like to call the police?

[Heston]

Was it making smoke? Chemtrails definitely. Clever to disguise them as repro Spitfires.

[Downwind Lander]

@FleetFlyer

If you are one of those motorcyclists who used to hit trucks on the North Circular at a closing speed of 135mph back in the 50s, then maybe I should.
If so, maybe you should pm me with your details and maybe you won't end up embedded in the radiator of an 18 wheeler.

[Mach Jump]

Ok, let's not get over excited here, and turn this into a personal squabble.

From what's been said already, it seems likely that this was an organised event, and it seems unlikely that anyone would perform an aerobatic routine, at an organised event, in an aircraft not approved for aerobatics. or without a Permit to Fly. (According to GINFO, there are no Isaacs Spitfires with a valid Permit currently on the UK Register)

I would suggest that the most plausible explanation, therefore, is that this was, in fact, a real Spitfire, and the sound of it's engine was, perhaps, distorted by the wind, or terrain. This should be easilly verified by a call to the phone number in the Notam.

Although I appreciate your concern DL, regarding what at least at a distance, appeared to you to be reckless/carless flying, I feel that a call to the nearest Airfield to voice your concern would have served your 'word in the ear' purpose better than an expose on PPRuNe.


MJ:ok:

[Downwind Lander]

That would have dropped him in it.

The trouble is that maybe that's what he needs.

Its hard to know what's best; often doing nothing is the worst thing one can do.

[FleetFlyer]

And sometimes discretion is the better part of valour.

[patowalker]

An observer two miles away states the aircraft disappeared behind the trees and suggests he may have done a steep turn at 0 feet. This is downland, where aircraft can disappear from sight without coming dangerously close to the ground.

If his eyes deceived him, I would suggest his ears did too, because a couple of clicks gives every indication that the aircraft in question was the Kent Spitfire.

[abgd]

DL: do you fly anything at all? All I can find from your previous posts are some proposals for aerobatting Hercules and from your username, a suggestion that you might be advocating landing in the wrong direction, and some posts that suggest that your knowledge of avionics is rather limited. Nothing to suggest you're in a position to lecture experienced pilots on how they should be behaving.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Sounds like a perfectly normal display by an experienced display pilot in a real Spitfire and not one of those silly wannabee replicas. The original post strikes me as something the Daily Mail would publish looking for some 'shock horror' attention. It wouldn't be NOTAMd if it was an illegal flight now would it?

Maybe this is part of a planned event. If it isn't, he or she may be about to enter the mother of all piles of do-dos.

And your display flying experience on type (Microsoft Flight Sim hours not included) would be??



Move along please, nothing to see here.

[Heston]

Just one further thought
Seaford...
(very near Newhaven and home of a noteable anti as many on here will remember. Im just saying...)

[Rod1]

Could we get the title changed to "Real spit doing official display and not breaking any rules"


Just a heads up to stop you starting another thread;

Beware if you're out flying in the south-east of England on Tuesday, 18 August... a full 24 WW2 Spitfires and Hurricanes will be in the air re-enacting flights made 75 years earlier on what's become known as 'The Hardest Day' of the Battle of Britain.

Rod1

[treadigraph]

Just reading elsewhere that it was a Spitfire V from Biggin (not the Kent Spitfire IX); the display was described as beautiful by another onlooker in the vicinity.

Now, can I slip out of work for a two hour lunch on the 18th and watch all those Spitfires depart Biggin...? ;)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just reading elsewhere that it was a Spitfire V from Biggin (not the Kent Spitfire IX); the display was described as beautiful by another onlooker in the vicinity.

Now, can I slip out of work for a two hour lunch on the 18th and watch all those Spitfires depart Biggin...? ;)

So, as the OP said, definitely not a Merlin engine then :}

G