Lowered requirements Emirates

[AviatoR21]

How many more pages is the same thing going to be "discussed" on this thread. Who cares, honestly are you going to offload yourself if you know an ex TP pilot or cadet is flying the plane? You won't even know!. The main concern with EK is the T&C's, if guys want to apply then let them. Just be very very mindful of what you're getting into. The thread on resigning from EK is just as large and I suspect not just for show....my humble opinion.

[skyship007]

Firstly, are all their aircraft FAA, EASA or local registered ??

The FAA ATP is like the EASA one, BUT the 500 hrs part of the 1500 hrs total must be cross country time rather than multi crew. So for any chap not clocking up time P2 in a trotter dropping local jumpers, it's easier to get. The written tests are also less painfull.

Secondly,
What is the worst issue with the T's and C's ??

Is it some kind of P2F or P2Type scheme, or problems buying a few cold ones ??

Some of the commentators do not live in the real world and are complaining about flying too much and who is joining.
The senior boys will not wake up and change much until they really do run out of drivers even after reducing the requirements to the legal minimum, even if that means changing reg. The unknown factors are their capacity in training terms and what their insurance folks say about the minimum type of driver.

Under FAA regs both pilots need an ATP, BUT under EASA the P2 only needs a CPL/IR and can be straight out of school. That type of new pilot has been used by BA in the past, although in this case it would probably be via the Dash route, or extra sim time if they really have to panic.

[SOPS]

I assure you, skyship, those people complaining about flying too much are living in the real world.

It is those that are yet to experience an Ek roster, and think ' hey it can't be that bad', are the ones not living in the real world.

[Mr Good Cat]

I assure you, skyship, those people complaining about flying too much are living in the real world.

It is those that are yet to experience an Ek roster, and think ' hey it can't be that bad', are the ones not living in the real world.

95 hours a month in Ryanair is bearable as you're flying the same time in daylight every day.

It will be a shock to do 95 hours at different time of the night across many different time zones. It's not sustainable and all newcomers must surely realise this soon?

[Mach_Krit]

Give it a year or two and they will be here posting the same stuff.

[L.B.Z]

Hi Guys,
Did U saw the new EK requirements ?
Motivation and ICAO ATPL, no minimum Flying Hours. :=
Think it's not a frozen ATPL....
--
Emirates is looking for the best pilots in the world!

We are hiring motivated, technically proficient and experienced pilots who aspire to excellence.

If this describes you, and you have an ICAO ATPL along with excellent English language fluency (to ICAO English level 4 or above) we would like to hear from you.
--

[SOPS]

They think we are all crazy, Mr Cat. Just complaining old farts. They will learn.

[White Knight]

Quite simply I'd rather have someone who can FLY an aeroplane as opposed to an autopilot next to me... Even more so when I go for my morning ablutions, usually around the Bucharest FIR...

I couldn't care two hoots about their background...

On a related note. Why the recent expensive publication teaching us all how to plan descents and do CDAs? Maybe some aren't as capable as they think they are would be my guess!

[Reverserbucket]

skyship


The Integrated CPL/IR route from the ATO to TRTO then A320 is currently used as a source of F/O's for BA. It's called the Future Pilot Programme and although graduates of the scheme are, I suppose 'new' as you put it, this form of mentored (formerly sponsored) scheme and it's predecessors are definitely not; such programmes have existed in Europe since the mid-60's.


Your analogy between an FAA and EASA ATP(L) is worth commenting on - the 500 hours cross country time for the FAA minimums is likely to have been conducted in a C152 or PA28 flying as a CFI around Florida or Arizona VFR, whereas the 500 hours multi-crew experience for an EASA licence is just that - 500 hours in a multi-crew, multi-engine transport category aircraft, so I agree with you partly but in that sense, they are not really alike other than they both require 1500 hours minimum for issue. My suspicion is that this is something that is taken into consideration at the recruitment stage.


What should be thought about quite carefully is the fact that ab-initio training standards seem to have changed quite considerably in recent years and that courses conducted for the issue of many EASA licences are largely conducted in the U.S.A., relatively quickly and by the same instructors mentioned above. Instructors training cadets for certification that they do not themselves hold. The progression from light piston to T/P and then the inevitable heavy Boeing or Airbus is greater, in my opinion, than many might think based on their own experience of twenty or thirty years ago.

[littlejet]

On a related note. Why the recent expensive publication teaching us all how to plan descents and do CDAs? Maybe some aren't as capable as they think they are would be my guess!

And the calculation was wrong, it's a typo...second example should have the task 42 miles to GI not 2 and the answer should be 12600 not 2600. :ugh:

On the other note, is the new DCP Boieng actually.... an airbus guy? :hmm:

[donpizmeov]

I believe bus warning letters are pretty much the same as Boeing warning letters. So can't see why this should matter.

[three eighty]

[quote]

On the other note, is the new DCP Boieng actually.... an airbus guy? :hmm:
No, but the new DCP Boeing guy is.

[Tourist]

What makes me laugh about this whole "are ex turbo-prop guys good enough to be allowed into our special club" b@llocks is that it is no different from the ex military guys who say "are civvys who never really had our expensive training good enough to fly with us"

Most civ background people aren't exactly fans of ex mil who say that sort of thing..


As ex military and ex turbo-prop and ex Airbus myself, I would just like to say that prop is harder work almost all the time, different climates are no big deal, the job is not hard, and if you can't find the time to read the paper on long-haul then you have no business in the pointy end of an aircraft.

[320goat]

Well said Tourist...

[Dropp the Pilot]

Here's a good one from today. Flying with a chap who just finished his transition course and was now online. He was feeling pretty good so he thought he'd ring to encourage a chap who had come to the same EK interview as he had but had bombed abysmally, primarily in the group exercise. It was clear to everyone that was in the room that he was a true n0-hoper.

Having made contact with the chap he found that the individual was over the moon. Emirates had called! They had made a mistake! He's actually a perfectly good candidate! Can he start this month! Please?!

If you are a captain, this should rank amongst your worst nightmares.

[Neptune Spear]

Why would any Emirates pilot or anyone associated with EK reccomend this airline to anyone? One has to be truly desparate or had a lobotomy. Either case it doesn't make for a good pilot.

[ruserious]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/business-commerce-firing-hiring_and_firing-sacking-dismiss-dismissal-cza0197_low.jpg

:}:}

[MosEisley]

What would happen if all captains started taking all take-offs and landings?

[SOPS]

Well it appears Mos, they are now accepting applications from people with only a frozen ATPL. So that's exactly what might happen

[SOPS]

I have a question. Why is my inbox suddenly full of people asking if EK are now taking frozen ATPLS? I only got the information from another thread on here.

Can I suggest to you all....apply and see what happens.

But DONT come on here in a years time and complain you were not told. Read ALL the threads. As I keep saying, the regulars on here don't go home, ingest illegal stuff and start posting, they post the truth from the heart.

And for myself, For the newbies on here, I'm glad I am out of it.

( note to Harry and all others, I understand why you might have to stay, I don't get why others are so keen to join:ok:)

And I am not making this up, I justbhad a pm "I have just over 1000 hours, do you think I would get a position on the 380?" Spare me.....just apply and see what happens. And remember it's going to be a hell of a step from what you are doing now, to flying an EK roster, let alone getting through the selection process and training.

[White Knight]

I have a question. Why is my inbox suddenly full of people asking if EK are now taking frozen ATPLS?

I have an answer. It's because the wannabes think you're a current EK pilot:}:} Let's face it, you spend more time on here than most of us do!

[SOPS]

Because mate I have the time, I'm not jet lagged, fatigued and tired.:ok::ok:

[sluggums]

And because a large proportion the new strata of people we've potentially opened up recruitment to are aged about 12?

[Flying738ng]

Dear SOP

i guess, retirement is getting on to you, those were not 1000 hrs, those were actually 2500.hrs on 737 ng.the question was, with no requirement mentioned for FO 380 do they still insist on fly by wire experience for the position.

People ask you questions, assuming(which they should not) you are quite senior and recently retired, have loads of experience, about flying, EK about ME.
Probably that's how things work, people with less experience look upon veterans like you,

But as you said,you bash them and ask them to see the circus them selves, that's great advice.

I really wonder, if you are so happy with your retired life, how come you have so much time for ""bashing".

Instead of " short flights long nights" "Its all about bashing EK" works better.

[120feet]

Actually SOP's is right on this one. The requirements appear to be changing on a daily basis. Fill out the darn application and stop wondering if you are qualified. Update it every 2-3 months. If you really want the job, which he and many others rightfully advise against, then spend a few hours and just fill out the application. It's called decision making. If your not sure then make the decision after the interview. Hey free interview practice! Be very cautious of what they try to sell during the interview. No, you will not be going onto the 380 unless you have buttloads of airbus time. (They may tell you that you are.) There is a whole que of 330 guys who have been waiting at EK for years for that seat. And you will not see command in the next decade. DEC's excluded. If you don't find this advice helpful then move on. Good luck in however you decide to play it out. All this IMHO.
120 ;)

[V1cutz]

All of the sudden 738ng boy has become an expert on the ME and the issues at EK. Unless you are actually employed here and seeing the conditions firsthand, my advice would be to actually listen to those who are or were here that have that experience. Until then you replying and "bashing" SOPs post holds little merit or value.

[Flying738ng]

Well already applied:ok:, and thank you

[Flying738ng]

V1 cutz

I am not an expert nor. I am trying to be.
All I had was some simple question, which any senior crew working in EK could have answered,

But instead you call it bashing etc etc

[donpizmeov]

Wow, applicants with 2500hrs on an ng. EK is saved.

[V1cutz]

It's not bashing, it's called the truth and it seems like you can't handle it. But if you are selected to join you will find out soon enough for yourself and we will see how your tune changes.

[SOPS]

And actually Mr NG, the request about the A380 I was referring to, did not come from you. It was from some one else.

[keepitrealok]

Yep, everybody else understood that SOPS, just not Flying738ng. With his 2500hrs he's the centre of the universe. He'll be the one who after being here for 3 years is asking why he hasn't got a CMD yet.

An example of the type of pilot EK now has to court.......

[Tourist]

Whilst I fully believe that Emirates is now an awful place to work, the changed requirements can only be a good thing.

As a basic concept, recruiting pilots who are at their core good makes a lot more sense than recruiting somebody who has sat in a pilots seat for a long time.

Plenty of good carriers have recruited cadets successfully for decades
The idea that a frozen ATPL means that you are inferior to someone with 10000hrs airbus is moronic.

There are good pilots and bad pilots.

10000hrs doesn't change that.

Across all human endeavour, we know that younger people consistently outperform older.

That is true across sport to war to science to politics.

Yes, as you get more experience, some areas of your performance may improve, however the losses in other areas are dramatic.

Incidentally, I do not class doing the same thing 10000 times as experience. Airliners today are so reliable that a pilot can go a whole career without an engine failure. Incidents and accidents are experience.

Airline pilots who do not fly outside work have handling skills are frankly awful in many if not most cases. Baby pilots often have better.

Why not be honest and say "I am p1ssed off because I had hoped that Emirates running out of people who met their minimum requirements would force them to increase terms and conditions thereby improving my life. Emirates realisation that they can open the door to a huge number of extra people is going to mess up my plans"

That I can understand and sympathise with.

[Trader]

Tourist. I agree with the idea that hiring good people is important and EK spends a lot of time an money trying to do that.

However, you other arguments don't hold water! Yes, some 10,000 hour pilots may not be very good just as some 2,000 hour pilots may not be. I'd rather have the 10,000 hour pilot in this case.

Your argument about modern aircraft reliability goes to the same case. More than likely the current crop of 10,000 hour pilots flew smaller aircraft, older aircraft with lots of non precision approaches into varying airports. A 2500 hour 737 cadet may well hand fly a bit but that's it!!! That is not experience!

Performance and age is a much studied topic. Athletically there is no doubt that performance declines with age. It is absolutely untrue in "science to politics"! In almost all endeavors not requiring large physical demands performance is highest in the above 35-45 age range declining later in their 60's. In many fields the years of experience and knowledge that have been learned cannot be taught. Regarding pilots in this area studies have found that 'physical' flying skills begin degrading in the mid to late 50's but experience compensates for it.

EK is at the point of lowering requirement because no one is applying NOT because there are low time pilots who are great. There are good low time pilots. Just not experienced low time pilots. All things being equal, any airline want quality, experienced pilots.

By the way, this is not a slight towards Ryan Air pilots or cadet pilots or other pilots. But I don't accept your premise that a low time pilot is better than a high time pilot in other than EXTREME examples.

[Tourist]

Trader.

Ok. I totally disagree.

I know that military flying has many obvious differences from civil flying in terms of relative importance of the skills required in flying. That said, nobody pretends that 50yr old fighter pilots will beat a 25yr old. That is not down to physical demands, it is just down to all round decline.

They have the experience and make good instructors but cannot compete with youth.

Name a historical figure/world leader who was great/influential when old. I can name 10 young.

Name a scientist who made great discoveries when old? I can name 10 young.



10000 airline hours mean nothing. Zip. Zero.
He might be great, but 10000hrs didn't make him great.

I'd take a TP captain who has flown a dodgy wreck around Africa or an ex military late 20's C130 pilot any day. THAT is experience.

Just to make sure nobody assumes that I think all military is great, no I don't.

In my generation in the Fleet Air Arm there were a couple of truly awful pilots. 20 yrs and 1000's of hours later they are still truly awful, but now truly awful with experience. Guess that means they are lucky!:ok:

[Trader]

"I'd take a TP captain who has flown a dodgy wreck around Africa or an ex military late 20's C130 pilot any day. THAT is experience."

Completely agree! I'd take those same pilot over 2500 hour cadet/737 etc pilots as well. Assuming they have 4000 or 5000 hours doing that. But I would take another pilot who has 12,000 hours now, flying airline for the last 5-10 years and has that same TP background. THOSE are the pilots EK used to employ as DEC. In my initial GS the lowest level of experience was 8000 hours - almost all came from that type of background.

With reference to your historical figures and the term 'old'. If old is above 30 then the list of 'great' people will far exceed that of the sub 30.

[V1cutz]

So now we are being compared to scientists and how their age influences their worth or experience? A scientists lack of experience can't kill 400 people in one go but a low experienced pilot can. Your view is flawed. Sometimes hours don't mean anything but when it comes to experience you can't compare a 20 something year old with 2000 hours thinking he is a sky god to a 25 year experienced pilot. If that was the case EK would of lowered their requirements years ago instead out of desperation now.

[Tourist]

V1cutz

This old "we can kill a lot of people if we make a mistake" cr@p is just old.

If that was a basis of any form of remuneration or recruitment policy then HGV drivers carrying petrol would be rich. Navy ICBM carrying submariners would be billionaires.
Politicians would be payed more than Headmasters.
Etc etc etc.

The simple fact is that airline flying is easy.
I know it wasn't always, but the fact that there are so few accidents despite so many awful airlines flying poorly maintained badly flown aircraft that we have to accept that it is easy.
The engineers have done an excellent job of obviating the need for excellence in piloting.

We also have to accept the fact that some airlines such as Easyjet have exceptional safety records despite having captains in diapers. There is NO correlation between hours and safety record that I have ever seen produced. Easyjet merely recruits good guys and trains them well.
Plenty of decent carriers have used cadets for decades and the have had no safety issues.

Trader

I think not, but I notice you have shifted from the over 35-45 range? Perhaps after a little googling?

[Tourist]

I have to ask this question.

What, exactly do you consider "experience"?

Once you have landed in -30C or +50C or max crosswind or at altitude 10 times, what else are you gaining?

The law of diminishing returns is inevitable, and the simple fact is that airline flying is a very very thin script. Very rarely does anything happen off script. So rarely that you might never see it in a career. There is a lot of book learning to be done about what-ifs, but that requires an eidetic memory, not experience.

Handling skills, however, are rarely better than when a cadet has just finished training.....

If you have ever flown anything requiring a bit of skill and capacity, you might realise, as I have, that whilst I am more experienced than my youthful self, I am certainly no longer the better pilot.

There is a reason that militarys don't use old pilots, and it isn't because they can't afford them.

[OnceBitten]

That said, nobody pretends that 50yr old fighter pilots will beat a 25yr old.
Tourist,
That's because as a 25 y/o you're generally eager, unpredictable, usually single, full of testosterone and haven't recognised your own mortality yet.

At 50 the testosterone has settled down, so have you, you are more predictable, and you recognise doing Mach 2 down a canyon at night in IMC isn't that great an idea.

That recognition is called "experience".

There is nothing wrong with young pilots or inexperienced pilots, we were all one once, but to say they are better than high time guys on average is complete Bulls#!t.

[V1cutz]

I assure you Tourist, with 5 type ratings and flying all over the world, I am a much better pilot now than I was in my 20's. If you want to feel all high and mighty and say that cadets and all these young sky gods are better off than you that's your opinion. Maybe you should just take an early retirement and go find something else to do since your skills have deteriorated so much. Seems you are trying to justify your own downfall in your career. Better experience than a 20 year veteran? Hardly. Like I said your view is flawed and full of crap.

[Trader]

Nice try tourist but I didn't shift anything.

You are absolutely wrong about handling skills being the best when a new cadet finished training. For him they may be at the best and it will decline because he enters immediate airline flying . Compare him to anyone who has a few thousand hours 'handling' aircraft and the comparison is not even close. Which is why experience outside the airline environment is so valuable.

Anyone who has spent any time training knows this. Take an average cadet, take away the ILS and they have a difficult time managing a 3 degree slope. Simply because they don't have the experience.

Airline flying may be 'simpler' nowadays but pilots get paid for when things go wrong. Looks at all the Asian accidents lately. All experience related. Want to go bigger -- look at Air France over the South Atlantic. Two inexperience guys and one hauls back on the stick and holds it there. With no disrespect to those pilots intended - a pilot who had real world experience flying various aircraft and had even a basic understanding of stalls would not have acted in that manner.

[MosEisley]

Hey Tourist, go fly a heavy into Kabul and tell me how easy it is. Maybe you've only flown in Europe. That would explain your ignorance on the subject. Also, learn the story of the old bull and the young bull. You sound very much line the young one.

[misd-agin]

A freshly minted pilot has the best handling skills he'll ever have? Hahaha, a truly laughable opinion. But it's what keeps the internet so interesting.

The few really natural pilots learn skills quickly. But they can't compare to the experience of guys with more experience. And yes, skills decline with age.

The top fighter guys typically have several years existence before they really mature. The best guys in my old squadron were in their late 30's to early 40's. Double turn? They're get tired when I was a young buck flying against them. Triple turn? They're toast.

Skills fade. Computing speed fades. Ability to handle G's fades. But the dkine is MUCH slower vs the learning curve young guys have to climb.

See many young test pilots? Surgeons? Leading academics? Coaches? Quarterbacks? Aerobatic pilots? Youth has tremendous positve attributes but there are certain fields where experience and additional education take time, which means the peak level is older.

[striker26]

Tourist - there is no minimum you can set on experience, especially when flying a plane, the experience is crucial. What's even more important is training, we have pilots turning off wrong engines (after failing check rides) on takeoff emergency, and others who (even in the US), didn't turn their anti-ice on early enough.

It's these minute differences that experience connects. Yes your work environment (i.e. airline conditions) play a huge role in your ability.

To stay on topic, i commend all you Emirates pilot for making the airline one of the safest, which should be the goal of any pilot, lets hope the training of less experience continues this, and once again don't think every pilot coming out of training has 1501 hrs... !

[White Knight]

Besides Tourist, airlines want experienced pilots not just for their flying skills, but for command and decision making skills...

Airline flying isn't just stall avoidance and engine failure at V1... After the safety aspect comes comfort, economy and so on. A spotty 25 year old just ain't as good at that kind of stuff. Happily I was bashing the bush at that age in Barons and Islanders and learning the FLYING part...

[AviatoR21]

Has the d1ck comparison exercise finished yet? Maybe another 100 pages and the same BS will repeat itself!

[Calmcavok]

I don't think so - we haven't done the Airbus v Boeing thing yet. That's good for another dozen pages...

To kick it off for the Airbus pilots, this is the above sentence in Binary code for you:

"01001001 00100000 01100100 01101111 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01101011 00100000 01110011 01101111 00100000 00101101 00100000 01110111 01100101 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100100 01101111 01101110 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01000001 01101001 01110010 01100010 01110101 01110011 00100000 01110110 00100000 01000010 01101111 01100101 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01111001 01100101 01110100 00101110 00100000 01010100 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01100001 01101110 01101111 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01100100 01101111 01111010 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110000 01100001 01100111 01100101 01110011 00101110 00101110 00101110"

[Dropp the Pilot]

Intriguing. You do realize there are only 10 types of people in the world? Those who can understand binary and those who can't?

[CamelRustler]

Sorry Calm,
But it's 01110110 not 01110100. They sound the same but completely different meaning. Common mistake. Looked good otherwise.

[The Outlaw]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQxk4f-hqt8oNDe-Te94CVIKFK1jslRr1immAN_X6mf0YDNRSHz

777 Blueprint

[The Outlaw]

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQE5h_qQmi90P_BIzkB8d_TXOq4Wnrw-z23rAsflpZIk8_LgZv

New Boeing in design phase

[The Outlaw]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAeLWcZYUqTDvCbRaMl_hLXkFJVSwG-IYW7smkkpjV6mMSkY3M

Boeing CPDLC (Copper Pilot Data Link Cable)

[The Outlaw]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsJ9Ax73jux5NAO1EybRfuGV44B3SU4A1-cRojwrLqMRVMcbpIYw

777 VHF by Marconi co. (no need to worry about icebergs anymore)

[The Outlaw]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRU8ju3jRqe7DUUXUaXxy16osOwXJJZ66a0XDryvaa iB3Pp1MNn8Q

Airbus A38UF-O

For the eventual trips to Mars, Venus and Uranus. Still with 3 pilots no doubt and a slightly modified "annex 3". Min fuel and Neptune as an alternate...no probs. I'll bet the 777 guys (thats John Deere for the "Dugong" crowd) will still claim it won't carry any freight!

Pilot rest bunk is located outside in this modified STC version.

[Calmcavok]

Well the JD drivers will certainly have the sharper handling skills as they battle the wake turbulence whilst trundling along behind the Dugong lugging all it's freight.

Apparently the issue will only be exacerbated with the arrival of the A380 NEO (No freight, Emirates Only).

[Neptune Spear]

This Airbus Boeing argument is a personal preference but when it is all said and done and at the end of the line the 777 will probably will have sold over 3000 units. The 380 will be lucky to sell 400 units.

[Monarch Man]

Intriguing. You do realize there are only 10 types of people in the world? Those who can understand binary and those who can't?

Post of the day :ok:

[GoreTex]

the 380 can't carry freight but the 777 can't carry passengers, so what?

[SOPS]

I like your location, GoreTex.:ok:

[north flyer]

Who cares, they both pay the same. It is always about the money.

[BigGeordie]

They pay the same but the lifestyles are very different and diverging. It isn't always about the money.

[Tourist]

Moseisly

Did you just seriously willy-wave Kabul at an ex-military pilot?
Seriously!?:rolleyes:

Guys, we can trade opinions all day, but show me some actual statistical evidence that younger pilots are more dangerous.
You can't because there is none.

Some are saying that airlines want experienced etc etc.
No they don't.
Decent airlines like BA, Virgin, Lufthansa, Air France KLM etc have always liked cadets even though they are expensive.

[General Dogsbody]

IMHO The Reason Major Airlines like Cadets is that they can take an in-experianced pilot and train and mould the individual over the course of their career so that when they gain Experience they will make competent commanders..

These Airlines clearly value experience, they just would rather it was acquired in house.

[V1cutz]

So big deal you were previously military Tourist. As mentioned, many of us at EK have been as well. Doesn't change the fact that your view is flawed. Nothing wrong with cadets or anyone with similar experience but to say they are better than a seasoned veteran? Maybe in your case it's probably true since you are debating the point but for the most of us it's comical to read your posts.

[Tourist]

natops

Quite agree. Nothing at all fancy about flying into Kabul. It's just an airport.

You say that handling the aeroplane is the "easy part"
Not any more it would seem. Pretty much all the recent disasters have been handling issues. 10000 Airbus translates as "can't fly anymore"
That is where the TP guys have a major strength. They have yet to forget how to fly.

General

These airlines value decent training of a decent product. Exactly what Emirates could do with TP pilots.

Frankly I'm amazed by the stereotype belief that pilots who never qualified under the old 2000hrs Airbus rule are somehow not worthy of Emirates.

I could make a similarly fallacious statement that all the pilots at Emirates are not good enough for decent legacy airlines in western countries, otherwise why would they be out in the sandpit.

There are a thousand reason why a decent pilot could be a TP pilot just as there are a thousand circumstances leading to a decent pilot ending up at Emirates.

[Mr Good Cat]

I think everybody is missing the point with this thread...

The problem is not recruiting pilots with low experience, turboprop only or whatever... History show this can be fine. I was a 170 hr jet cadet myself back in the old days and I have not dinked the John Deere (yet) from the left seat.

The problem is ONLY recruiting low experience pilots and not getting the balance across the Company. Not giving the guys enough training time, undue pressure from above / left seat, lack of support if mistakes are made - THAT WOULD BE THE PROBLEM...

Now let's get along and stop bashing each other - we are our own worst enemies.

As for the silly Airbus versus Boeing thing... all I will say is this - I'm a Boeing driver but I'm not about to start slagging off a guy just because he's Airbus.. because (a) it's childish, and (b) it's homophobic...

[Tourist]

Xulu

Where have I banged on at any point about fighter pilot skills?

I don't think they are relevant.

My point is that there is no great skill required.

Your experience at Easy is no more useful than a TP. That is my point.

As you say, you whizzed around to places you knew. How I that any more useful than 6000 hrs TP around Africa?
Suddenly, these people who have flown around in cr@ppy TPs for years get a chance to step into a shiny jet.

My point is that they are no more likely to be a burden than a 5000hr EasyJet pilot.

Don't get me wrong, my old Airline used to take a lot of ex Easy, and I have to say you were all very well trained and excellent, unlike the majority at my airline who also had appalling handling skills.

The appalling handling skills come with flying the jet for too long.

Not trying to get into Emirates.
Can't afford the pay cut.:ok:

It does make me laugh to have a whole group of pilot decide that they are something special and that TP guys and cadets are not worthy.
There is nothing different about Emirates from the other big airlines and they all cope.

I think this has far more to do with peoples worry that it will impinge upon their chances of a terms and conditions upgrade.

I full understand why you might want this, but on the other hand I am pleased that all the poor TP guys who for years have been condemned to stay where they are whilst all the kids went straight past them on the easy/ryan to proper airline expressway.

[SOPS]

Excellent post, Good Cat.:ok:

[fatbus]

You all need to get a life, it's been a hot summer . Families coming back so maybe some sanity will come back to theses pages

[Slaveaway]

Emirates can't be that short for pilots. 2300TT EJet Driver and still no call 3 weeks later.

With that being said, it says my application is under review at of 7 days ago

[donpizmeov]

Three week wait? OMG!!! But it's only 300hrs ejet right?

[SOPS]

You read my mind Don.:ok:

[Slaveaway]

And 1,000 hours command In the 1900

[fatbus]

They are building a data base of TP pilots if and when required. More than likely when required and will not go on the 380. That coming from JA. Lowered the application requirements to match others in the area .

[striker26]

To all the miserable pilots on PPRUNE:

We see a lot of miserable pilots looking to voice their opinion, we don't see the happy ones too often because they have a life and most likely don't have a reason to, i'm sure the smart ones who are unhappy, make life decisions instead of complaining. Creates a one way balance which is unfortunate because in every airline, you cant tell me every single pilot is as miserable as you.

Take each post with a grain of salt, make your own decision and be done with it. Don't complain. Make PPRUNE a productive and informative way to share knowledge, that's it. Unfortunately these forums are filled with fluff, that doesn't belong in the right threads, so, when making your decision make sure you know whose talking.

If you are an EK pilot looking to get out, here you go (you wont have trouble filtering fluff out):

EK Resignation Tips [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-551834.html)

If you are an aspiring EK pilot, here you go (you will have trouble filtering fluff out from people on the previous forum):

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/438615-emirates-ek-interview-all-you-need-know-about-threads-merged-182.html

There is no middle. Stop trolling. This specific thread was created to inform people of different requirements, it wasn't meant for you to come and tell people reasons not to apply. If you want to bash, create a new thread.

If you really hate it so much you would've quit a long time ago, don't tell me you cant get another job, how'd you get this one?

Let the backlash begin, it's really unfortunate...

[SOPS]

Wow!!....that's a reply I would expect from Harry.

[nolimitholdem]

Wasn't this one of those guys who couldn't get on at EK? I guess it grinds his gears to hear people fed up to the teeth with a place that wouldn't even have him. Makes sense, I guess.

Unfortunately these forums are filled with fluff, that doesn't belong in the right threads, so, when making your decision make sure you know whose talking.


You do realize you're on the internet - right?

[donpizmeov]

Cut the kid some slack. He is a wannabe that is coming to terms that the real job doesn't always match the description on the box sold at flight schools.

[ExDubai]

ROFL Beer and Popcorn

[LHR Rain]

Plus the kid is from Canada.
What on these posts are not true Stiker?
You have proven to be such an expert in so many fields we take your opinion with such high esteem.
Don't forget to check your Mags during your run up.

[DXman]

Would they ever change the requirement of a certified logbook? ;)

[V1cutz]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Soon they will probably accept a paper napkin(stamped of course as they love their stamps over here) with a bunch of numbers on it as your official logbook.

[dynamicd]

Greetings guys, I applied following the reduction in hours requirement to ATPL minimum. emirates sent me an email today inviting me for interview in october 2015. Below my experience to give you guys an idea.

date applied : 7th august 2015

Total time : 3219 ( acft only no sim)
jet 737 classic: 1729 F/o
dash 8 300 : 1212 F/o
dash 8 400 : 76 capt
current position captain dash 8 q400

[misd-agin]

Congratulations and good luck during the interview process.

But in the big picture it provides a peak behind the curtain - a candidate that weeks ago didn't meet EK's minimums gets called 17 days after applying.


In the U.S. the typical recommendation would be to get more TPIC time vs. flying a bigger a/c as an FO.

Interesting times. The next couple of years should be interesting for the pilot demand/supply curve.

[buzzc152]

Would someone mind pm'ing me an email address for Emirates HR dept ? Many thanks.

[Payscale]

14 years ago I had 8500 hours heavy jet and it took me 9 months to get an interview. Times have changed

[ExDubai]

Somehow they need to fill the seats and get them in the air. Interesting changes...

[bia botal]

14 years ago I had 8500 hours heavy jet and it took me 9 months to get an interview. Times have changed


14 years ago the package mirrored the terms and conditions, and EK could cherry pick who they wanted! now they do not, EK had the perfect opportunity at the last pay review to right that wrong and stop the flood of resignation and ensure a steady flow of experienced guys, they choose not to do that, and the result is what we have now!

[sluggums]

Wot he said!

Everything these days is cost based with no regard to the quality.

[donpizmeov]

Fatty,

14yrs ago you needed 2500hrs total, and 1000hrs jet to get into EK. You paid your own airfare to and from. And as you said, the wait to interview was a long one.
I had just under 8000hrs, and was the lowest houred fella in my group.
Times, they be a changing.

[bia botal]

and a multitude of applications of speedbrake and thrust. Now look at what you get today....


And regularly both at the same time, that's always lots of fun!!

[SOPS]

Ok, I have to ask. In 22000 hours, I never encountered a Chinese glide slope ( except in China). So, what is it?

[donpizmeov]

SOPS,

Think VNAV path dependence.

[SOPS]

Thanks Don.:ok:

[WhiteFly]

I suppose I am one of the few that still recommend EK.
5 years ago I applied and was called in 10 days and my experience was :
2600 jet time with 3000k total.

5 years later im already a captain at EK so has worked like a charm for me...

Sure its not as good as it was 10 years ago but im still happy.

Just put in your head about 7-8 years for command so anything earlier you will be happy!

[Am NOT Sure]

Striker26

Reading pprune for a month is not license to post on behalf EK pilots

We complain for a reason ... You are not welcome to assume our position and give alternatives

Please refrain from breaching when you are literally clueless


Good luck finding a decent airline job ... I certainly hope you do soon .. Gives the rest of us a break from having to scroll through ur absurd posts

[Am NOT Sure]

Not very long time ago

Is there a probation period for pprune ?

[Capn Rex Havoc]

I'd reckon he's been here less than than 12 months. Very experienced chap he is. :D

[6000PIC]

Such a shame and a pity that EK has lost the propaganda war against its most valuable and important commodity. An utter management failure of epic proportion , scale and cost to the business. Pilots are onto you EK.
Flight crew that previously bought into the smoke and mirror propaganda machine of EK have finally realised all that glitters is not gold.
With the current conditions of flight crew employment worldwide , EK has moved from near the top to near the bottom in my mind. They will never get the pleasure of my 15,000 hr wide body command CV. They should be ashamed of what they have done to a once great airline. The management and ownership have themselves to blame.

[vfenext]

They will never get the pleasure of my 15,000 hr wide body command CV.
Were we all supposed to be impressed by that little nugget of BS?

[donpizmeov]

Common VFE. I think he is talking about his night hours. :}

[Am NOT Sure]

mock your own colleague :ok:

[Fack5]

Not very long time agoAnd you're already moaning like a seasoned 15 year veteran. You talk about probation periods and licences - how about a probation period on new-joiners moaning about this job over issues that have been common knowledge on here for years and years.

To paraphrase yourself, '...for reasons unknown to us you (joined) and the results surprise you.'

Get some time in.

[Mr Good Cat]

Were we all supposed to be impressed by that little nugget of BS?

I think the point is that 15,000 hour widebody guys do not aspire to join the airline anymore...

That is a significant statement, irrespective of how it came across.

If experienced Captains leave the Company and only 500 hr guys join does that leave the balance of experience across the Company that we desire?

:confused:

[SOPS]

I think the guy deserves support, at least he has seen through the PR BS.:ok:

[6000PIC]

Of course it's not all wide body , I didn't think I owed a breakdown other than the most obvious vfenext. Bitterness towards fellow colleagues is unnecessary and only furthers the PR campaigns of these unprincipled operators. I'll leave in-fighting for the less intellectually capable. Be my guest vfenext.
My point remains that experienced flight crew will not apply to EK if this race to the bottom of T's & C'c continues. They need us more than we need them.

[Emma Royds]

I personally think it is far more significant to see your younger and considerably less experienced pilot who decides not to apply to EK.

As you mature and gain experience, then one naturally becomes more selective about where they wish to work. It speaks volumes of the significant internal problems within the company, when the lure of a modern wide body rating and a varied route network (perhaps not A330 :() is not enough to entice enough to join. Perhaps the recent realignment of the recruitment minima may solve that issue?

[SOPS]

At the risk of getting my inbox full of those that tell me to shut up, there is a life out of EK.

For some, it's going to another job. In my case, it was just going home. ( and yes, I do enjoy it a lot, I won't mention the dogs), however can I say, to those that stay, be nice to each other. Because each other, is all you have.

[Wodka]

As someone originally interested in EK, I was keen to know more when the mins dropped. I'm ex TP, now jet, but not yet near the original min reqs.

After speaking to a mate already in EK, who confirmed all the horror stories, his advice was ..... Run a mile (in the opposite direction!)

Such a shame.

[Am NOT Sure]

i will wait for my veteran title or the final warning letter to post and have the right to moan


I never did but now I have something to look forward to

[chrislikesblue]

I have not really understood, did they actually start hiring people with these absolute minimum hours? Or they have just announced this possibility in their recruitment page in order to widen their database? If yes what is the training outcome? Do they manage to go through the training? What is the training success rate? Big or small? What is the duration of line training, how many sectors for example? I guess if there is a high success rate then there should be no problems.

[Qwerti]

Chris, I believe thats a bit too early to know, especially in regards to training/sectors. Give it another month or so and I am sure someone will have some answers about the interview success rate at least :ok:

[Iznogood]

Maybe in the Operating Manual PART D

[fatbus]

I believe they are in the process of adding to the OMD to include a revised training plan for TP pilots.
These things take time.

[nakbin330]

EK have lowered the MINIMUMS!! Think about this, if one has the absolute minimums, one's chances of being invited for assessment are still very slim. In my opinion, they will be looking at what else candidates have, such as degrees, work experience, etc, etc.

Oh, and if one's English is not good, I suggest a lot of practice.

[White Knight]

Degrees nakbin330? You're getting all American on us here...

Trust me. They ain't looking at anything but flying experience and ELP4+... (and that you're not an axe murderer)

[Panther 88]

WK, now that's funny. Good one. But they might just waive the latter.

[The Outlaw]

Nakbin

I'm not so sure they care too much anymore about high level English

We have a lot of "new pilots" who believe the phonetic pronunciation of the letter "Y" is "janky".

All of my cockpit colleagues next month will be using the term "janky".

There was a time we had our asses kicked, and hard for poor IT, I guess it's not a point of contention any longer.

[misd-agin]

Flyfye -
But is EK really taking in consideration the new minimums? Cuz i have TT 2248 hours and 1993 hours in Embraer jet and they still haven't called is anyone in the same position with me or does anyone knows why?

*********

Have you tried calling them directly? They might be able to answer why you havn't been called yet. :rolleyes:

[chrislikesblue]

I understand there might be a different success rate in the screening process from now on. But I am not sure that their training standards will change. I strongly believe that if an instructor is good he can manage to train well a pilot of any level (low or high experience). How has the training been so far before they introduce these new recruitment minimums? Do they expect too much from the trainees as they are supposed to be experienced pilots? How long does it take, and what is the average failure or success rate? Do they manage to train their pilots successfully without major problems?

[SOPS]

It is interesting to note that despite the lowering of requirements, the banner ads for recruitment are back. EK never spend money if they don't have to.

[Fellowship of the drink]

EK has a habit of compressing training to the minimum required to train to competency.

This means if you are not in the middle of the bell curve of drinking out of a fire hose, you will probably be under considerable stress and tiredness.

Trainees are given more training if they require it but that would mean getting a "2" or developing grade (basically not a pass) during training to trigger additional training. This is usually followed by a phone call and an interview from Training Management. The vast majority of trainees pass after remedial training but who needs the stress of potentially losing your job when your family is on their way to Dubai (if not already here) and you have quit your old job?

It's not fair to the trainees because they be subjected to such unnecessary stress because EK is trying to be penny wise and pound foolish. This is especially true for the TP pilots joining EK. With sufficient sim and route training, they will be an asset to EK but I am afraid they will be rushed through the training system.

Buyer beware

[donpizmeov]

I think the footprint for inexperienced FO training is already in the manuals. Considerable increase in both SIM and line training.

[chrislikesblue]

Fellowship of the dark,
What you mean by 'vast majority of trainees pass' ? Is this lets say 90 or 95 % of people passing the training? And what you consider as compressed training? Could you please be more specific? how much is average lenth of line training? More than 20 sectors? Im asking you these things because I understand very well your point of view regarding the stress during line training and Im trying to understand how much risk is involved in this.

[Avid Aviator]

Don is correct, increased training program now in the manual for limited jet time guys.
No TP or military guys have yet started training, so will be a fair lead time until the success rate is known. Official line from management is "anyone can be trained". If cadets are passing OK then I guess that is true, just a matter of time and money I guess.
I think it will come down to where these TP pilots got their time; top class multi crew airlines or dodgy fly by night outfits.
Pressure is building, not many levers left to pull to get pilots in the door. Eventually, they may have to think about looking after the ones they've already employed!!

[masalama]

Lots of opinions here that the lowering of requirements are due to demand and supply. I believe there's more to this than that.

EK are well aware that there's a group of highly experienced turboprop pilots with good flying and CRM , multi crew skills. Tapping into that group gets you highly motivated pilots that wouldn't be averse to the idea of a 10+ year time to command , a stable source of RHS seat warmers who will profess to the world how wonderful life has become on websites such as this and attract more people to join, an HR coup of sorts.

I also believe the DEC program for the 777 could open up in the near future to stem the flow and try and solve the crewing shortage. I know of several well qualified and deserving candidates with good jet experience not making it through the interview which is fine and shows good standards but not desperation.

Like I said, my views only and masalama :ok:

[SOPS]

And stem the flow they must. A few nights ago I had dinner with 4 other recently ' retired' EK captains. 3 777 one 380. Combined experience North of 100000 hours. Each with over 30 years in the industry. I was the only one that was not a TRE with EK. I had been however in a previous life.

There is a lot of experience that has simply had enough, whatever the PR machine wants to tell.

[outboundjetsetter]

wow whats happening at EK guys? u gonna put anyone thru with 1500 hours ... DXB airport is getting stressful enough with the wake separation at 1am

[Fellowship of the drink]

Chrislikesblue:

I was referring to the short course for B777.

6 fixed base sims + 6 full flight + 16 sectors before line release check. Its can a lot to take in considering illogical rostering that doesn't benfit the trainee.

[chrislikesblue]

Fellowship of the drink,
You are right, if it is like this ( 16 sectors) then it is too short. Is this course designed for all non type rated joiners? Or perhaps for people who had previous experience on the B777? And what happens if someone in this course will require extra training? Would the company be willing to give him additional training or there is a chance that he might be terminated? Are there many people who had problem to go through this course and were failed?

[KanyouEast]

Well said SOPS, love your work! If you're over 50, 20k plus hours, 30 plus years in aviation, you are over qualified and a redundant excess in this outfit.

The problem is, you will never diminish the allure of shiny new widebodies to any young pilot, fair enough. We would have drooled at thought ourselves. I also have no problem whatsoever with a 25 year old new-joiner in the RHS, except they can generally drink more than me these days... If he sat for 8-10 years on the company network, he'd be a more-than-accomplished international wide body skipper at 33-35 years old. I do have an issue with the sense of entitlement SOME (minority) of these youngsters have, when they don't get command within 3 years, and sort of look at me as if I'm holding their careers' back, because they haven't had an interview before their 28th birthday..

Never fear though, through the slick machinations of our intrepid HR team and a lot of smoke and mirrors, our problem is about to be solved. The company will be going to KL for at least 3 weeks in September to skim the cream off the (very sadly) ailing Malaysian Airlines. Watch out for a large contingent of 777 and possibly even 380 DEC's to tide us through this difficult time! We must welcome them wholeheartedly, they are in such a sad time in their history, and at the end of the day, trying to make a living like us. We certainly can't blame our T 'n C deterioration on them, we couldn't stick together in a glue factory..The upside is that sub-90 hour rosters may be on the cards...Pity I won't be here to see it!

[nolimitholdem]

I heard Saudia scooped most of the Malaysian guys.

EK has enough good Malay guys already on the premises to warn their countrymen.

Latest word a little over 100 in the hiring pool and then...?

Management washup actually starting to slowwwwwly admit there mayyyyyyy be a slight problem...although turnover is still only 3%. :yuk:

No one even pretends to believe them anymore.

[Weltevreden]

As you can see I generally do not post but here is my 5 fills...

Regarding TP pilots or jet experience it is all up to the individual and his own ability. There are great pilots from all flying back grounds and nationalities.

The main concern to all who want to join is know what you are getting into. In Ek you are purely a number, they do not care about the individual and your family. They hand out warning letters like a production line, divide and concur, shoot first then ask questions. There have been several examples of this, Accra, Melbourne, Lagos to name a few, and how they have mistreated pilots with no regard to the person and family just the EK brand. Even after some minor incidence the first question of most of the pilots are, "are we going to get called into the office for this?" Not a good state of affairs especially when your colleague utters this on vacating the runway after a low speed RTO.

This situation is not just limited to pilots, the cabin crew, engineers etc. are all treated the same. Staff report each other purely to keep the spot light off themselves. It is the culture of the company. All departments are short staffed and over worked, cabin, engineering, ground staff .... If you are happy to except this as a working environment please do join, each individual should make the decision for themselves and their own situation. The company needs all the staff they can get in ALL positions.

Good luck

[FlyinColo]

Hey guys all my hours are ME mostly all turbine but with the new ATP laws in the U.S. I never got my ATP. I'm an FO on a 135 operation, anyway will EK even entertain me without having my ATP or do they just want a minimum of 1500 hours ?

[SOPS]

Colo, did you read the comment just above yours? It is true.All true. Think long and hard.

[FlyinColo]

Ya SOPS. I'm a single guy, and I've done months hand flying a TP for 90-100 hours in a month so I'm sure I can handle it with EK and get some jet time. Before I reject the offer I first need to see if I can get an offer. So is it 1500TT or is it required I have my ATP? That means I'd have to join a regional and that's ****ty to use them to get my FAA ATP. So can anyone confirm...

[bogeydope]

Another clueless soul.......:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Fire Ball XL5]

And this is what EK and the airline industry as a whole has become..,
Clueless and desperate..
Really makes me sad on so many levels as we watch this once proud airline succumb to the whims of the corporate greed and commercial "politically correct". The Colo post above is ... wrong on so many levels... But the "shiny jet kid" just doesn't get it.. Would rather screw the generation before him for the chance to get screwed by the folks behind him... The epitome of what this shyt industry has become. :ugh:

[expat400]

Has EK deteriorated that much? Read these posts:

"need to put out the applications and start looking around. EK is just so arrogant. This use to be a very good job (and still is for the 3rd world) but with Europe paying more and more now that is the place to be. We will always be treated no better that an Indian to management and it is time we start going to greener pastures. I have had it.”

“-an average work month of ~75hrs/month increased to an average of ~91hrs/month
-insertion of ‘operational plans’ for various destinations that would otherwise require breaking flight duty limits
-the use of scheduled block hours that do not reflect the actual time required to carry out a flight. In other words, shaving off of 10 to 15 minutes per leg that would have counted towards our monthly credit limit
-duty time reduced from chocks plus 30 minutes to ‘chocks on’
-an increase of fatigue ASR’s (air safety reports) from 1 per 4 months to 3 per week
-simulator and ground school duties not counting towards flight duty limits
-the DEC policy
-a loss of quality TRE’s and TRI’s
-the insertion of reserve days throughout my schedule, thereby breaking up any stretch of days off.
-an average of 1 reserve day/month increased to an average of 4 reserve days/month
-reserve days no longer counted towards pay or monthly duty limits (resulting in being able to have us available on 45 minutes notice for 10 hours at no cost to the company)
-the probability of being called to work on reserve dramatically increased
-the enforcement of written authorization to leave dubai on ‘off’ days
-the coming and going of the illegal ‘factored’ flying hours, although there is nothing official about the demise of this policy
-the utilization of crew rest facilities whereby a Captain is required to rest in the compartment at the rear of the aircraft while still remaining PIC.
-the utilization of crew rest facilities consisting of a first class seat sometimes seated next to a passenger. This results in rest taken during in-flight services etc.
-the institution of the ‘fatigue model’ into the bidding system
-the institution of the adopt bid system
-the removal of credit and block hours listed on our schedules
-the inability to take leave during the year due to the lack of available leave periods

- an increase in the number of pilots willingly working on days off
-a huge increase in the number of ‘no shows’ on initial courses
-a demographic shift in the pilots accepting courses at Emirates
-a massive increase in the number of pilots resigning from Emirates and also from positions within Emirates
-massive cost of living increases”

“Unfortunately the way they are operating a lot of loyalty is being lost throughout, guys who would have stayed here till 60 will always be on the edge of there seat and looking for better options.
Its sad Emirates has come to this, just another contract job.”

“CVs all over the web, now if I can get my lucky ticket punched”


These posts are from 2005... Obviously nothing has changed and many of the posters are still here today. You can find similar posts from every year.

[GoreTex]

expat,
what you said is on the net for 10 years but you still joined, the ones that now join will write the same stuff in a year or two, its so funny.

[FlyinColo]

You don't know me, my goals, my situation. Yet you come on here flapping your gums calling me a "shinny jet kid" and talk about me and how my question is "wrong on so many levels." Fine I get it. You're unhappy with your decisions in life and unhappy with your experience at EK. I'm simply asking a question so how about you either answer it or shut your mouth. You wouldn't say that to my face but now you have your internet balls you feel it's ok. ITS NOT! So since 90% of every forum on here is people complaining how bad EVERY AIRLINE IS, how about if someone doesn't know the answer to my question they don't respond. Or if you do know you can inbox me. I'll ask it again, DO I NEED AN ATP OR IS IT JUST 1500+ TT?

[Capt. Flamingo]

Bro if you cannot be bothered to go to the careers website and check the requirements (it's all there for everyone to see, no secret and it's in black and white) but instead you come here and write all these lines waiting for someone to answer your question, then you should channel all that energy towards what you want to achieve and stop waisting time on here.

[dan1165]

Qualifications & Experience

Emirates is looking for the best pilots in the world!

We are hiring motivated, technically proficient and experienced pilots who aspire to excellence.

If this describes you, and you have an ICAO ATPL along with excellent English language fluency (to ICAO English level 4 or above) we would like to hear from you.

[Gulf News]

I'll ask it again, DO I NEED AN ATP OR IS IT JUST 1500+ TT?

Colo Somehow I font think that the lack of ATPL will be your issue but your attitude certainly will.

[V1cutz]

He would be a pleasure to sit next to on that 18 hour Panama flight. Don't want to join a regional? You to good for them?

[vfenext]

Colo, it's a full ATPL.

[FlyinColo]

Cool thanks VFE. Ive Heard several people say it's just meeting the ATPL flight reqs.

[AlanPardew]

FlyinColo I like your attitude, do you want to join Crystal Palace?

Alan

[rolloutflare]

Let me be one of many who tried, occasionally to wake some of us hopers and dreamers up.

EK, for the matter, ANY Airline, will not change nor adapt to your demands since happy pilots are good bunch to have, but not really a mandatory item in the management checklist.

If the pay is too low, attrition rate will make them do something. If they don't, that because they can. If they have to park a dozen fat bus with no crew, they will and the blame will be on anything else but the lack of better T & Cs.

Do wake up to the fact that the new world of musical chair is going on now. With the willing cheap supply of many great young lads willing to fork out hundreds of thousands to land a job in LCC worldwide, then join EK to gain experience and eventually bitch and moan till their turn to move on to their next big gig in China or back home where ever they came from.

Have some sympathy on the guys who are joining. If you're truly unhappy, don't help nor engage and just stay on the fence but do be a professional when you fly with one of them. If any of them is unsafe, do the right thing and let the system sort them out.

Let's face it, most of us are staying put in Ek cos we ain't have viable option elsewhere. If there's one, I will be gone in a second. Though the difference is I would still thank them for the job all these years and leave in good grace.

[my salami]

Due to cost cutting.. It will be physically delivered once the flight to Panama opens.....:E:E

[Mr Good Cat]

... but the cost of fuel burned to carry the piece of paper will be claimed by salary deduction ;)

[striker26]

Expatriate: An expatriate (often shortened to expat) is a person temporarily or permanently residing in a country other than that of their citizenship. The word comes from the Latin terms ex ("out of") and patria ("country, fatherland").

Once the going gets tough, of course you're gonna remember and compare everything to home or what once was, the negatives of EK and Dubai become more adverse. You fly a heavy fleet, no regional, many of your flights will be long/ultra range. You fly 90+ hours a month, we get it. If you dont like it, leave honestly stop with the BS, they're are plenty of people waiting in line to fly a heavy, whether you like it or not, stop thinking the UAE is a democratic candy shop with labor laws and unions like the Western world.

Its a choice, which some people are ok with, you made it already, now that you regret it, fill out a BA or QF app and go. And if you don't get hired, blame your home country and airline, not EK. And if you dont, don't be a hypocrite and let your ego flourish. I wouldn't be surprised if the very people complaining, retire as EK pilots.

Enjoy :)

[donpizmeov]

You will remember your first solo Striker. Its something to look forward to.

[nolimitholdem]

Yes striker, the expat Canucks are all envying your paycheque in CAD pesos...oh wait, maybe not. :cool:

Meanwhile please try to stop embarrassing the rest of us.

[Alconguin Crusader]

More words of wisdom from a 25 year old wiz kid who would pay for his type rating because he doesn't have the talent to get hired by AC.
Is there anything else you can enlighten all of us on Striker? Your name is very appropriate because if some airline does decide to strike you wouldn't think twice of crossing the picket line to fly that Big Shinny Jet that is so elusive to you. No wonder our profession isn't what it used to be with "men" like you.

[highlight]

Not sure if this person was serious or just trolling around, but I had a good laugh. Found this gem on Airline Pilot Central Forums...

LDC134
Emirates vacancies
Would you be interested in working for one of the fastest growing and most profitable airlines in the world? Emirates are looking to recruit 1000 talented pilots across the next 20 months due to their unrivalled growth. They have 270 aircraft on order to run alongside their existing 230 fleet and can provide fantastic job security and an exciting and rewarding career.

Working for Emirates you can expect:
· A supportive employer with a holistic benefits package focusing on the aspects that are most important to you
· To be part of a global network
· Security and attractive career progression
· To fly a young technically advanced fleet which is entirely wide-bodied
· A quality lifestyle in Dubai with access to high standards of education, leisure and sports - ideal for both families and singles

If you're interested in finding out more visit emirates.com/pilots.


Emirates vacancies - Airline Pilot Central Forums (http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/foreign/90196-emirates-vacancies.html)

[fatbus]

Small point that was missed was the retirement if aircraft. Something like 280 total by 2025 .

[SOPS]

A supportive employer???

[falconeasydriver]

SOPs as I live and breath, you beat me too it, due to me having to wipe my mango juice off the screen, hahahahaha, Supportive Employer? My ar$e!

[Mr Good Cat]

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/joiningupoccupationalhealthandsafetywithrehabilitation-140915224617-phpapp02/95/joining-up-occupational-health-and-safety-with-rehabilitation-45-638.jpg?cb=1410830648

[maligno]

Slavery life for voluntary slaves. Now, with extremely low experienced slaves. This is getting really dangerous.

[maligno]

what a slave mentality you have. APPLAUSE!

[donpizmeov]

DEC for 777 and 380 now a done deal. What could go wrong?

[TineeTim]

Where did you hear that, Don? Confirms my plans if true.

[donpizmeov]

Well two conflicting reports at the moment. This morning told by recruiting guru they were taking them. But have just been told it's still only 330 Dec. Web just shows 330. May have been mislead.

[Mr Good Cat]

DECs had to happen for 380 and 777.

Can't afford to release the FOs as too short of them, combined with the sudden jump in left-seat resignations.

Think they may see a few more right-seat resignations now too!

This is starting to snowball... :confused:

[flareflyer]

sudden left seat resignation???
on the 380?
i hope as many as possible.....and in the right seat as well.....

[Mr Good Cat]

Sorry - I mean resignations from the 777 and 330/340.

I am not aware of any resignations on the 380. However, a shortage of qualified 380 FOs may mean they need to call on the 777 and 330/340 skippers... which will be a problem with the resignations.

I used to hear a lot of talk from skippers about looking for other options but didn't know anyone who had actually resigned. Now I know of 7 guys personally who are working their notice - and FOs tell me they're flying with a few guys who have already resigned.

It's more than I expected despite the usual talk at this time of year.

EDIT: I had forgotten about the DCP 777 (RL) who is also unfortunately on his way.

[innersole]

I know a youngish 380 skipper leaving soon to a RHS NG job at a LCC. My best wishes go with him and his family.

[fatbus]

Children do the Maths. Yes it's not great but it also not as bad as you make it. Currently 5 % short of pilots. Yes some are doing 90 + hrs but you have to look at the 12 month total . Pprune experts are those that have all flown + 1000 unfactored . Now the 4 A/C that arrived on Thursday ? That could prove a challenge .

[Mr Good Cat]

I can't personally do the maths as I only have access to the seniority list as it stands on the portal - which is not correct and includes a lot of guys who are long gone and lists a few current skippers as FOs despite them going through the course 6 months ago.

The recruitment guys and those in training obviously would have access to the real figures so I'll leave it to you guys...

[keepitrealok]

DECs had to happen for 380 and 777

Errr.....no they didn't 'have to happen.' There are hundreds of qualified FOs that should be doing the upgrades.

But typical head in the sand mentality has denied the fact that this isn't a case of 'build it and they will come' like the completely delusional running the place seem to believe. A simple look out of the window would show them that corn can't grow here in the first place......:8

When will they get one simple fact: Dubai is a dump, and even those who say they 'like' living here are performing a certain amount of self-delusion. Nobody would place it in their top 100 places to live by choice. It is nothing more than one giant mirage. Pilots came here because EK was a good place to work and offered a fairly reasonable career path. Now they want to destroy that path. One of the top reasons pilots have been attracted to EK will be removed if they employ DECs while they have an abundance of qualified FOs to step into the left seat, but can't move them because of their self-induced recruiting problems.

They will reap what they sow. Managing an increase in resignations by kicking sand in the face of current suffering employees? What a strategy. Not only will Captains keep leaving, but now so too will FOs. With the recent letter sent to guys who had their CCP cancelled and told 'when you are within 18 months it will be rescheduled' nobody needs a cattle prod anymore to understand not just the new recruits, but also the current 4+year FOs are going to spend a loooooong time in the RH seat.

In a company that has no respect for you.

In a country that has no respect for you.

Guys/girls will apply for the DEC jobs. That is a given. But for the first time I'd suggest reading a little bit - and that means reading between the lines - of what is occurring financially in the UAE, the region and the world. Things literally do not add up in Dubai, and it appears that a certain popping sound is not too far off.

[donpizmeov]

Calm it keepitreal. Every single FO in the company joined knowing that EK hires DECs. If it didn't worry them when they joined I couldn't see it worrying them now.

[bogeydope]

Don, you're so far off the mark, it's not even funny!!

[donpizmeov]

Oh no. Is the hiring of DECs different now? I didn't know. Will have to ask some of the 7 and 8 year FOs on the Bus.

[Mr Good Cat]

Are we so short we're hiring 7 & 8 year olds now? :ooh::uhoh:

[OnceBitten]

I think what the guys are getting at Don is in the past EK has hired DECs when they haven't been able to upgrade F/O's quick enough or there was a lack of Qualified F/O's.(but never had a problem recruiting F/O's in parallel to DECs to meet expansion).
Now they are or will be hiring DEC's when there is an abundance of qualified F/O's that will be frozen in position due to poor planning due to the fact they can not attract suitably qualified f/o's to fill the void in the numbers required.

Subtle difference.

[JAARule]

Don's right. FOs were frozen in position in the past when they could've been upgraded, also due to poor planning, same as this time. The fundamental difference is today it's happening to FO "Me" instead of FO "Him." Could be a generational thing.

[donpizmeov]

Oncebitten, each time DECs have been hired, FOs eligible for command have been bypassed. If you don't believe me ask any fella who joined within the past 12 years on the Bus. This is nothing new. It might not be right, but every FO here now knew this happened when they joined.

[OnceBitten]

Not saying it's wrong or right, what i'm saying is in the past guys that have been frozen have been frozen due to training requirements in the fact that EK couldn't train up fast enough, so it was a training department issue.

Now it appears it is a recruitment issue.

My point being is that the subtle difference is that in the past EK where in the enviable position that they could fill both ranks with qualified applicants when it was required and then left to training to sort out the numbers. At the moment the numbers aren't even coming through the door for training to sort out, and it actually appears that more are filing out the back door than in through the front.

So the fundamentals have changed from the past of why we now require more DECs.

[EK380]

I can't personally do the maths as I only have access to the seniority list as it stands on the portal - which is not correct and includes a lot of guys who are long gone and lists a few current skippers as FOs despite them going through the course 6 months ago.

The recruitment guys and those in training obviously would have access to the real figures so I'll leave it to you guys...

MR GOOD CAT CHALLENGE: Show me two or three seniority numbers of guys that are still on the seniority list and that have left since !!! Send me a PM, if you don't thrust public posting. No names, just the number on the list today SEP 7 2015. You have a really hard time convincing me...

[keepitrealok]

Don and JAA,

I think you both may have missed this line -

One of the top reasons pilots have been attracted to EK will be removed if they employ DECs while they have an abundance of qualified FOs to step into the left seat, but can't move them because of their self-induced recruiting problems.

I am not denying that some pilots have been affected in the past. I will however argue why that occurred. And it is a very different reason to now.

JAARule, it has nothing to do with FO "Me" instead of FO "Him." Maybe that's how you see the world. It's not how I do.

[donpizmeov]

Keepitreal,
Entry requirements were lowered to 2000hr modern jet to try and get people in the door. EK believes shiny big jets might be more attractive to the young. DECs were hired in the past to fill gaps. Just like they will be again.

No matter what the reason, the end result is the same. The hiring of DECs will delay the progress of FOs in company. It did this way back in 2003 just like it does now. The only difference is that those fellas in 2003 had more experience, and were lied to by the company when it happened. All FOs now knew what they were joining.

[ExDubai]

EK HR is now sitting in the ruins of their hiring strategy. What I do not understand is why did they rely on that strategy when it was foreseeable that those strategy will fail. The growth plan/expansion strategy isn't something new, but they still follow their old model. Esp. when a HR department has to compete with 2 other large airlines which follow nearly the same business/growth model.

[nolimitholdem]

I get the sense that don was one of those disadvantaged and "lied" to in the past about DEC's, the way he constantly makes multiple posts about it and taking some weird pleasure in constantly reminding the current misfortunates that "they should know better". We get it, message received, people are idiots for believing a word that comes out of EK's mouths. Hopefully he can let it go someday.

But it misses the point completely, which OnceBitten nails perfectly. The current DEC push, (which will fail miserably, for reasons tirren just summarized nicely) isn't about training shortages or unqualified FO's, it's about a desperate attempt to fill seats...period. Bandaids on haemorrhaging arteries, as usual.

Management at a recent washup stated that the lack of recruitment was due to the number of employment choices pilots have right now. It was then pointed out that in the past, EK always WAS the employer of first choice, at least in the ME, and why has this changed?

To that, he had no comment.

They don't even believe their own bs anymore.

Gulf Air 2.0.

[Oldaircrew]

Exdubai. One word for you. Hubris.

[SOPS]

As I have said a lot ( with a lot our hate mail) it is simple. If EK treated the pilots that they have ( or used to have) with some deceney then they would have not this problem. That's it, end of story.

As I said on a previous post, I had dinner with 5 other ' retired' Ex EK captains last week. Over 100000 hours among us. We had all left for the same reason..enough was enough.

Enough said.....

[glofish]

ExDubai and Oldaircrew

If you talk to the recruitment gals and boys as well as to the relevant HR people, the problem originates and culminates at the same person responsible for the scheduling tragedy.

This frustrated mismanaging local will most probably one day be regarded as almost criminal how he directed this company close to an abyss.
I just wonder by what teflon coating he still enjoys protection by the royal family ..... Even in this dump face saving must have a certain limit!

[SOPS]

Glofish...its Gulf Air mark two. I can not for the life of me understand why the person you refer to has been given so much power and leeway, allowing him to destroy what was a once great airline. I just don't get it. And I don't get that STC sits but to see his legacy destroyed. ( or perhaps he has enough money in the bank he just does not care).

I'm wondering how long it will take those at the really really top of the pile to realise what is going on.

[maligno]

Hi Guys

You make me cry with your misery there, or actually, happy and proud of myself sending to the hell to EK and fleet managers and HR managers a few years ago.

Currently I am flying 65 hour a month, 13 days OFF strings + travel time, 14k per month as a 777 skipper.
Shall i apply as a DEC to return to the sand pit????!!!!:yuk::yuk::yuk:

Keep Slavering! and good luck!

I predicted all this rubbish 5 years ago...you are still on time to get out of there...

[falconeasydriver]

Found this little nugget recently, remind any EK and ex EK types of any individuals contained within?

"Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are volatile and prone to emotional outbursts, including fits of rage. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place for very long. It is difficult but not impossible for sociopaths to form attachments with others. Many sociopaths are able to form an attachment to a particular individual or group, although they have no regard for society in general or its rules. In the eyes of others, sociopaths will appear to be very disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath, including murder, will tend to be haphazard, disorganized and spontaneous rather than planned.

Psychopaths, on the other hand, are unable to form emotional attachments or feel real empathy with others, although they often have disarming or even charming personalities. Psychopaths are very manipulative and can easily gain people’s trust. They learn to mimic emotions, despite their inability to actually feel them, and will appear normal to unsuspecting people. Psychopaths are often well educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature."

Just a thought to ponder, the beer in Germany today tastes great :ok:

[helen-damnation]

It gets worse!

Latest rumour, and it's only rumour at this time, is that 4 (ex?) Air Arabia Captains were being assessed for 380 DEC this week.

Another nail in the coffin IF it's true :oh:

[glofish]

OMG!

DEC from a narrow-body on to the holy grail of the airline world?
Where most of EK's T7 drivers apparently almost failed to transit?
That must send shivers down the spines of all Super skippers ....

To be honest, down mine too, if true. If we are looking at TP FOs paired with NB DECs and the system would work safely, it would only mean we are all not that special, wouldn't it? :{

I'll be retired by then, shouldn't care less, but I still would like to enjoy staff travel on EK.

So hopefully they know what they are doing! :rolleyes:

[ExDubai]

Can't believe that.......... But hey, we're talking about EK :cool:

[halas]

"Where most of EK's T7 drivers apparently almost failed to transit? "

Apparently almost bull****.

halas

[donpizmeov]

I believe a 380 sim was available where the 330 one wasn't.

Gloie think you're doing a disservice to the fellas that swapped fleets. The majority had no problem with the transition, and seem to be enjoying flying something modern.

[Avid Aviator]

F/Os have not previously had their upgrades delayed due to DEC recruitment. Current (attempted) A330 DEC recruitment is the same, any qualified F/O - and they have lowered the requirements - has been upgraded.
If they take B777 DECs - and I'm not convinced they will - then this will be different, very different, to any past DEC hiring. If I was a junior F/O I would be off to EY or QR for my upgrade.
Interestingly, this wouldn't be the case on the A380 - again upgrades are happening there on min time, so hard to complain! Still can't believe they'd put DECs on their pride and joy, but if they did it wouldn't stop any current F/O getting their command.

BTW, Malingo: I might be doing 85+ hours a month, but I'm earning over $22K a month with 42 days leave (even if I have to take that as cash not time off). Think KAL leave is 0 days if you take 11 days off a month?
Ancient TREs would be 30% more than me.
Lots of problems at EK but pay is not one of them.
Keep it rational!

[White Knight]

F/Os have not previously had their upgrades delayed due to DEC recruitment.

Boll0cks Avid old chap... Go back at least a decade!!!!!!!

[BigGeordie]

My upgrade in 2007 was delayed by about a year purely because of DEC hiring. I was one of the last FOs to be hired before the whole DEC thing started, anyone joining in the last 10 years knew the situation. Still doesn't make it right.

[LHR Rain]

Yes just because pilots at EK supposedly knew about DECs doesn't make it right to still hire them, especially now.
Almost every single FO at EK has had their upgrade delayed by DECs weather they knew it or not.
On just about every occasion when the company hired DECs in the past it wasn't necessary and probably pre-planned. The same can be said for the present scenario times 10. Through the company actions or lack of actions the company is relying on DECs bailing them out again. Can't wait to see the what kind of experience the company will be attracting.
Is Emirates hiring Turbo-Prop DECs next?

[glofish]

Everyone seems to be quite tense on this subject .... a sarcastic joke and poking at ourselves goes undetected.

Guys, they will do whatever it takes to get metal airborne.
Until it comes down a tad faster than anticipated and even then it will never be their fault.

[migair54]

If they hire DEC it will be very discouraging for many F/O, and another thing is that i´m not sure if they will find so many DEC with rating in B777 or A380 willing to join EK.

I think the new minimums are the correct way if they can't find pilots, get more pilots and slowly upgrade the ones in house. otherwise altering the seniority will create some problems, many F/O that currently are not so unhappy could start considering to go.

Few days ago I got an email from EK that I have been shortlisted and placed in a holding pool, but I think they sent that email to almost everyone that applied.

The shortage of pilots is going to affect many airlines and I am sure more airlines are going to follow EK.

[nakbin330]

Apply to the outfit down the road and you'll be placed on a nine month waiting list! Much like it was here in the not too distant past.

[Pulkdahulk]

How are you guys finding inductive reasoning and critical thinking assessments for Type Rated Boeing applicants. While the former is a stronger point, the latter is a weaker area and need to know how to better improve on the critical assessment part. I have purchased some online assessments but need some help from guys who struggled with it initially, but became better!

If interviews has a 15Q, 10 mins time out for the tests for example like above, so how many Qs are you guys getting it right or what should one do basically. Answer with accuracy if you can't finish all the 15 in 10 mins ?

[Am NOT Sure]

Pulk
What does your judgment say? Take chances and risk errors or be prudent and stick to accuracy ? Btw there's a thread about the ek interview

No comment ...

[METARHIMS]

I applied to Emirates earlier this week and unfortunately I made a mistake when I answered "Job Specific Question" #3. I answered "none of the above", when my answer should have been "2000 hours or more on multi-crew multi-engine jet above 10T with 4000 hours total time".

Once I got the "keep trying, but not now" e-mail the day after, I realized my mistake and changed the answer.

Any ideas when Emirates may look at my application again? American, mid 30s, B-737 type and time, excellent record, currently bizjet.

[Kapitanleutnant]

American….. I heard the US airlines were hiring like… 400 pilots per month!!!

Mid 30's…. Meaning you'd have a career of 30 year career with a major in the US.

737 Type… Even SWA no longer requires this.

Dude, are you Daft? You want to come to Emirates???

Have you not read all the horror stories at this place? I say with sincerity… You really have no clue what you're getting into here. NONE!

Not trying to give you sh*t but… wow… really?? Do some reading!!! All the US guys here are screaming to get out and go back to the US.

Yet… with all the posts about what Emirates is really like…. you still want to come here?

All the best to you, man. Hope you get what you want.

I'll check this board about 6 months after you're hired and see what you think then, ok?

Kap

[cerbus]

I don't know what your thinking or reasoning is METAR but have a serious re-think about joining Emirates. It is every bit as bad as pilots are voicing on these threads.
Have you heard about the U.S. Majors? Give them a try first then if you are un successful go to Ethihad or Qatar but there are at least 5 very good airlines in the U.S. that are worth going to.

[ibelieveicanfly]

Do not listen to frustrated pilots who always firmly believe that the grass is greener somewhere else!
Come and join Emirates because we need more pilots to relieve our workload,to improve our bidding system and to upgrade the senior F/Os.
The EK package is not perfect and has been depreciated unfortunately.

[OnceBitten]

Grass? What is this Grass you speak of????

[Biggles78]

Intriguing. You do realize there are only 10 types of people in the world? Those who can understand binary and those who can't?
Sorry Dropp but you are wrong. There are actually 11 types of people in the world. Those who can understand binary, those who can't and those who don't care. :eek:

[harry the cod]

Kapitan

"All the US guys here are screaming to get out and go back to the US".

Strange, just recently flew with one very happy US citizen. About to upgrade after 4.5 years onto the triple. 5 years ago he was sat right seat on RJ earning a fraction of what he's about to clear and having to endure a long commute too due to the huge cost of living in NY. Kids recently enrolled into school of choice. Wife good job. Plan is 10-15 years until children finish then will re assess. Even thinking of buying here with market dropping.

I'm not selling EK, merely trying, as usual, to put perspective into an often one sided and emotional biased argument. It very much depends on where you've come from and what the future may potentially hold. Despite your opinion and a degradation in overall pay/work/lifestyle balance, working here is still an excellent option for many.

Not all of our US colleagues want to leave, just a larger number perhaps than other nationalities. Ironically, the Brits appear to be taking the lead for leaving here. With all the rain, tax and immigration issues they face, things must be getting bad here!

Before you respond, a question to you. Are you not American yourself? Why are you not joining those desperate screaming Americans when you can just walk out the door into the 400 jobs a month you claim are available?

Harry

[Pointer]

The main reason the Brits are leaving for greener pastures (wetter and colder) with a mediocre aviation market there is the simple reason that the "better" half hates it here.. Hearing most of the Brits that I fly with saying things that reflect the opinion that everything British is either better, bigger, or greener (ok, I'll give them that one) makes it for a difficult time here.. The wife's are leaving in drones.. Husbands wanting a commuting roster.. Just not working out, then everything turns sour if you can't be with your loved ones, understandably so.

So I agree with Harry on this one, It always looks greener on the other side of the fence.. but either side has its brown patches.. Just be careful not to step in too many of them.

For the new joiners or those thinking to join.. Please.. Please.. have a sincere talk with your spouse about coming here.. make sure she/he will WANT to make it work..

Just pointing out the obvious..

Pointer :E

[misd-agin]

Pointer - KL can't reply because the movers are packing his stuff right now. Fact.

Buddy two days ago - "new FO on my last trip was a former 777 CA at EK."

Lots of factors in deciding to leave the U.S. for EK, or any overseas job, and reasons not to, with the current hiring spree in the U.S.

[SOPS]

Yes, I confirm, the last private correspondence with KL said he was due to go about now.

[dhc8d]

Hi everyone
Is dhs 29 700 a month for f/o not enough for a decente living in dxb?
Is it a net salary?
Accomodation is provided by EK but do you pay for electricity and water bills?
Is the education support allowance covers it all or u still have to add some from ûr pocket?

Thanks a lot in advance for your answers.
Cheers.

[my salami]

1) Yes.
2) Yes(if no kids).
3) No.
4) It depends.

[dhc8d]

Thanks very much for answering so quikly
1)yes means it´s enough?
2)what do u mean if no kids?

Thanks again.:ok:

[Pointer]

2) if you have kids in school, you most likely will get some Educational expense deduction from that "net" salary, as well as tickets used, medical expenses whom might not be covered 100%, etc..

[dhc8d]

Thanks to all for the aswers
What´s the minimum an F/O can expect with two kids?
Thanks again

[jack schidt]

Put simply, an FO salary is sufficient to survive on and that's exactly it, survive you will, save you probably won't until you get your command (after the DECs have taken all the slots).

J

[dhc8d]

I'm just looking for a number so i can have a clear idea of what to expect
And jack if this number is fine just to "survive" in dubai so what´s for you to correct number for a decent living?

[AlanPardew]

Thanks to all for the aswers
What´s the minimum an F/O can expect with two kids?
Thanks again

A divorce.

[Plane_Sailing]

As an FO I have a decent car, good lifestyle , occasional holiday , good school for kids, , nice villa, no utility bills, small amount in provident fund, good health insurance and send €1000 home a month to pay expenses. Emirates has its problems but the pay is pretty good even for an FO. They have had small pay increases that don't keep up with inflation but Ryanair hasn't had a pay increase for over 10 years.
The problem with emirates is the mixed type of flying is very tiring, the leave system and availability is crap and the time to command is very uncertain. If you can live with these things then emirates is a good place to be.
I'm ready for a lashing from the usual people to say how wonderful it was 10 years ago, but it's not 10 years ago so get over it.

[Global Nomad]

Nothing's changed from 10 years ago, just different problems.

[SOPS]

May I put my thoughts in here? I am sure by many I will be howled down.

But everyone seems to be forgetting that the main reason for being an ex pat is to make money.

What happens in reality is, the local pilots make more than the Expats ( good luck to them).

But the whole reason of moving to the ME seems to have been lost. You go to make money.

Hubris in EK and Dubai has changed this.

[Deep and fast]

OK here's a question. How many new pilots will it take to ease the roster to a reasonable level and how many are the company trying to recruit?


I have to agree with SOPs, the whole point of leaving for pastures green is... Well that it is greener, I would be looking at a 5year pay cut to go there so it's more pastures brown. Pay won't increase until they're looking at pilot shortages of Chinese proportions.

[bogeydope]

Dream on if you think we'll be flying less, no matter how many we are hiring in the future!

Secondly, for most of the P2F types, this place is as close as it gets to "nirvana".
For the rest of us it's closer to " the cream of the crap", although that might even be a stretch............:ugh::ugh::uhoh:

[donpizmeov]

Another 10 aeroplane growth for the remainder of the financial year. Last wash up was told they were hiring 230 new pilots for the remainder of the financial year. Even not including people leaving that's not enough to fix leave and roster problems.

[dhc8d]

What is "P2F" types??????

[Desdihold]

p2f : pay to fly.....
Ie Ryanair pilots who even pay form their own ppc's and for their upgrade to the left seat.
These practices are a cancer spreading through the industry.

[migair54]

So if they are adding 10 planes but hiring only 230 pilots that´s not even close to be enough, because I also heard that around 20-30 pilots leaving per month and with the of frustration in the rise and the airlines trying to poach this can be terrible for the next season with the new planes, frequencies and routes.

How many pilots per plane?? 20??

Even if they add that pilots now, they won´t be online flying until end of year, the soonest and that´s very optimistic considering 1 month notice and very fast training, highly complicated both.

if the situation is bad it´s going to get worse, I think some planes grounded due to lack of crew.

[dhc8d]

So it´s around 6500€ to 7000€ a month?
Where i'm for an F/O it´s about 3000€ to 3500€ a month for 90hrs

[Southpole]

Where are you dhc8d, in Spain?

[dhc8d]

Nop more in the south :O

[jack schidt]

I know no one who is leaving because they made enough money. I know very few who send money home each month on a regular basis as an FO. Most FOs I chat to are just making it work and the dream of getting affluent in Dubai is far from true.

I wish pilots would come to ease the burden but, selling your family into
the furnace and Dybai being in the bottom 10 air quality cities in the world so you can just be able to keep your head barely above water is a serious mistake imho.

I don't come to here for any other reason but to be honest and truthful.

j

[Otto32_fr]

I know no one who is leaving because they made enough money. I know very few who send money home each month on a regular basis as an FO. Most FOs I chat to are just making it work and the dream of getting affluent in Dubai is far from true.

I wish pilots would come to ease the burden but, selling your family into
the furnace and Dybai being in the bottom 10 air quality cities in the world so you can just be able to keep your head barely above water is a serious mistake imho.

I don't come to here for any other reason but to be honest and truthful.

j
So, they need a lot of Fo's, they are short of pilots and they have some aircraft on the ground because they don't have people to fly then. Why is so difficult to get a job in Emirates and so many people is failing the interviews?

[Kapter]

Most of the accessible jobs are sucking You dry of energy. 900 hours a year. Constantly rolling 90 hours behind You. Doing 4 sectors a day for a Low Cost Carrier going to secondary airports day and night with the a320. 5 hours of flying a day with 11 hours of working time. Working like 19 days a month. Terrible and cold crew meal. No chance for a holiday during summer period. The money is 1/3 for an LTC compared to a normal Captain in china. If this goes on I will have 35k jet hours when I retire. My question: Is EK a better place than the above mentioned if You take away the rostering issue?

[dhc8d]

Amen to that :ok:

[TangoUniform]

Kapter,
The answer is, why are former Ryan Air pilots leaving EK to return to Ryan Air? Why are T7 captains leaving to go to Jet2? What would entice pilots to go to Turkish for less money? The evidence is there. And you're worried about not getting summer leave? Last guy I flew with had 45 days owed to him. He's just trying to get leave, period. Ah, but you do have the opportunity for nice warm crew meals.

[V1cutz]

Summer leave?? Heck, I can't get leave no matter what time of year it is! Over 10 months between leave periods.

[palm]

More than 15 month between leaves .....and you want to join this Cie, you have to be f....crazy. This place is starting to be a nightmare. Or I should say the brutal reality in the middle east. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[nakbin330]

Otto ... they have lowered the entry requirements but not the standards.

[GoreTex]

the standards too

[Wh1sper]

Hats off to the TRE's for keeping the standards during the interview sim checks!

[120feet]

The new sim ride for the new lower time guys is much different than the ride the rest of the EK pilots took. What EK is now looking for is simply trainability. They will have you perform climbing and descending turns and heading roll out's. Something any pilot should be able to do. But for the TP and/or low time guys they will not be expected to pass the same ride that was required previously to get a job there. (Red Flag.) Recruitment gets graded on the training pass rate of the candidates it selects and passes onto training. So just because EK needs 500 pilots it will not hire 500 pilots if only 100 are deemed trainable. It is a waste of everyone's time. I think also the Psych exam must indicate that you are willing to put up with enormous amount's of BS and abuse. :ok:

[Monarch Man]

Had a recent and rather revealing conversation with a person heavily involved in the recruitment effort currently taking place at EK. "MM we are seeing neither the quality nor numbers that we need, at this rate due to the number of resignations and those working notice, there will be a contraction in the number of crew this year"
"As of this week we needed xxx number of pilots, and at the moment we have achieved about 10% of what we need"
This person also went on to explain that despite protestations made to those up above, there has been no acknowledgement or seeming recognition of this growing shortage. The words Gulf Air were mentioned as a description.
It was very very enlightening to say the least as this person up until very recently was what others would have described as a kool-aid drinker.

[Otto32_fr]

May be it will be easier to get a job in Emirates now

[Emma Royds]

DEC entry requirements are being reviewed for forthcoming 777 DEC recruitment, with those that have previously applied being asked to update their experience and licence details.