What does 'wheels up landing' mean to you?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I was talking to a non-pilot a while ago and told him how a Yak52 I once had a share in had done a wheels-up landing (not by me!).

What picture does that generate in your mind?

He replied "What, it landed upside down? How did that happen?".

To me, the description 'wheels up landing' is pretty unequivocal. It means it landed with its undercarriage still retracted. But he, a non pilot, though I was saying it landed with its wheels pointing upwards.

Am I being presumptuous in thinking him a bit dim? Or is his take on my description entirely reasonable for a non pilot? If the latter, I wonder what other strange impressions we give to non-flyers when describing our aviating exploits?

[mad_jock]

dim wit in the extreme.

Was he something to do with a HR department?

[Cusco]

Of course when a Yak 52's wheels are 'up' they're not really 'up' but a bit 'down' to protect a/c from dozy soviet students....

[chevvron]

I can remember an Anson doing a wheels up at Bovingdon back in the 60s. Simply stopped the props horizontal and hey presto, no airframe damage.

[PA28181]

He's only dim in the way non-pilots think "stalling" means the engine has stopped..

PS: The OP title to a forum like this, there is really not much point is there?.

[rans6andrew]

Doesn't it mean you just need a bit more power to taxi? :ok:

Rans6.......

[PA28181]

Only if you can do it with funny shaped props.......

[9 lives]

I religiously say out loud my landing gear position while on downwind, and land wheels up all the time - no problem...

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Well, yes, to go along with the thread-drift a '52 landed gear-up will touch down on the mains and the tail handle; even the wheel brakes can still be used in the roll out. The prop will be smashed and the flaps bent, but otherwise it'll be OK.

The prop is wood, and designed to break without damaging the mighty engine or gearbox. So in Russia they jacked it up, fitted a new prop, straightened the flaps, and went flying.

When it happened to ours, UK engineers refuses to sign off the engine and gearbox without a shock-load strip. Such were our engine hours (under CAA rules) it was cheaper to simply fit a new engine. One of the group was an engineer and he took the now-scrap original engine to his workshop and out of interest stripped it down. Not only was there absolutely no damage to engine or gearbox, there was no discernible wear, either; the honing marks were still fresh in the cylinder bores yet according to the CAA this engine was almost life expired and fit only for scrap.

[Mechta]

"Be prepared", as they say in the Scouts.

http://dailypicksandflicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Craig-Hoskings-Upside-Down-Landing-and-Takeoff.jpg

Craig Hosking's Pitts Special

1ApSDpnA2k0

[astir 8]

Don't forget the recent airprox in which a Typhoon (was it?) "bunted" to avoid a collision.

Several newspapers published diagrams of how it had done a half outside loop (starting at about 250 feet if I recall correctly!

[Crash one]

I used to wonder how many of the general public think gliders have no controls and the pilot just sits there having a ride!

[Above The Clouds]

What does 'wheels up landing' mean to you?


There are pilots who have landed wheels up, and there are pilots who are going to land wheels up, just be prepared.

[9 lives]

There are pilots who have landed wheels up, and there are pilots who are going to land wheels up, just be prepared.

To me, a wheels up landing on a hard surface suggests a failure somewhere during the flight. Failures do happen, and yes, they are a reason for preparation. However prevention is even more important than preparation. I've known many pilots, whom through adequate prevention few an entire career without landing with the wheels in the wrong position, so saying that that is going to happen, is simply not right.

I focus on "configuration assurance" so at each phase of flight, I'm assuring that the aircraft is configured for what I'm about to do next with it. I have many flights for which extending the wheels for landing will end very badly, so I'm busy assuring they are where I intend them to be, not just "down".

[ChickenHouse]

"Wheels up" refer only for RG airplanes, or better, if your wheels are up on a C172 you are in real dip**** waters ... ;-). If talking to non-pilots, use the term "belly burning" landings instead, as it avoids the discussion on where is up and where is down.

[9 lives]

if your wheels are up on a C172 you are in real dip**** waters

I've flown C172's, which did not leave the factory as "RG" models, but in fact were equipped with retractable wheels.....

[BillieBob]

so saying that that is going to happen, is simply not right.Which is why I prefer, "There are those that have landed wheels-up and those that haven't.....yet."

I know you understand what you think I said but I am not sure that you realise that what you heard is not what I meant.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

No-one should think themselves immune from landing wheels-up, especially in an aeroplane like the Yak which has no warning horn or auto-extend system. When ours suffered that fate, the pilot had apparently made one 'wheels down' approach but was bulked by a microlight and went around, retracting the gear.

His unexpected and unplanned second circuit was fraught with trying to fit the high performance Yak (in terms of high rate of climb, lead budgie rate of descent) into the usual stream of floaty bomber-circuit spam cans so he was distracted. He'd mentally crossed-off putting the gear down as he'd already done it and not yet landed.

I managed 30+ years of taildragging without ever ground looping, and several years of Yak flying without forgetting the gear. But I was always aware that one day I might.

A friend (who flew the type for the airline) tells me of a BA 1-11 which landed gear-up at Tees Side, with three captains on the flight deck. They were practicing flapless landings, and as the aeroplane was empty of pax or luggage it was fuelled up to the limit to get the weight up to make the exercise realistic. The weight meant the approach speed was above the upper limit for the 'gear not down' detector, and all 3 highly experienced Nigels forgot to do it.

I believe even 'Cats Eyes' Cunningham once did it in a Comet, too. So skygods are not immune.

[spekesoftly]

I believe even 'Cats Eyes' Cunningham once did it in a Comet, too.........Just for the record, it was in an HS125. Apparently it was still a smooth landing, and when the RFFS arrived on scene JC's initial comment was "What very tall Firemen they have at Luton" ;)

[9 lives]

I know you understand what you think I said but I am not sure that you realise that what you heard is not what I meant.

Hmmmm..... Know that I don't understand that!

I am simply unwilling to accept the notion that a pilot who flies RG "will" have a gear up, or that a gear up has not happened to that pilot yet. Silly.

We, the pilots of the world, will have a terrible time convincing insurers that we are worthy of being insured for gear up landings, if our attitude appears one of being resigned to "it's going to happen sometime...". I would rather enter the process with a commitment that I will always act so as to prevent landing with an unintended gear position. Of course, I insure for mistakes and system failures, but it doesn't mean that I plan to have either, or I'm just going to allow it to happen, by letting fate take its course. I will act to prevent.

A simple gear up landing generally does not result in an injurious accident, just scraped metal, and a sheepish call to the insurance man. Then higher premiums later. A wheels down landing in an amphibian on the water runs a good chance of costing lives, but will certainly scrap a plane. For me, a wrong gear position landing could be fatal, so I will work to prevent any such event.

If a pilot I was to train came to me with a "when" rather than remotely "if" attitude to gear up landings, I would be having a heart to heart talk with that pilot about attitude before we flew.

I may one day have a gear up, (though I'm really trying not to). If I ever do, I'm not going to stand beside the plane, and say "I knew that would happen one day..." - what a poor attitude! This is an attitude, and professional image issue. Would I allow a pilot to fly my plane, if that pilot was working toward their when of a gear up landing?

[India Four Two]

I've flown C172's, which did not leave the factory as "RG" models, but in fact were equipped with retractable wheels.....

Step Turn,

True, but they had to remove the factory wheels first. ;)

I had been waiting to get a slot on similar 172 at the Calgary Flying Club for a couple of weeks, during which we had unseasonably warm fall weather. My slot finally arrived on Sunday, when we had 50 m visibility in snow!

[TWT]

a BA 1-11 which landed gear-up at Tees Side, with three captains on the flight deckInteresting report :

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/7-1978%20G-AXMG.pdf

Stansted airport

[mary meagher]

Nearly all modern cross country gliders have retractable gear. Just one wheel, that's all.

I certainly did not ever expect to be one of those eligible for a white line award when I finally qualified to fly the club Pegasus at Booker. After all, I was an instructor! Knew it all.

And so when I had jumped in the Peg for a lunchtime jolly, and my students were waiting my return impatiently, my circuit was an example of perfection, my approach impeccable, my touchdown in front of the admiring students didn't seem that different....though when I stopped moving, the glider felt a bit strange....a bit lower than normal. Yep. Wheel up. Fortunately only a green grassy smear on the glider belly, no other damage, except to my pride.

SAFETY MESSAGE NOW! ALERT ALERT!

If you see a glider on approach, and the wheel is NOT down, do NOT RADIO AND TELL HIM! The startle effect may cause the pilot to raise the nose while raising the wheel, and has been known to trigger an accident. While a wheel up landing is usually only damaging to the glider if it happens on tarmac. Hence the white line award at the annual dinner.

After that incident, my own routine became Glider over 1,000', wheel up.
Glider under 1,000' wheel down. Works for me.

[A and C]

To me a wheels up landing it a nice insurance job !

[9 lives]

do NOT RADIO AND TELL HIM! The startle effect may cause the pilot to raise the nose

Egads! I have always pictured glider pilots as being so mellow, and at one with their surroundings. Who'd have thought they could be so close to the brink of being startled into losing control!

I'll stick my neck way out, and ask that if someone sees me about to land wheels up on the ground, that they do radio, and tell me. A and C has enough work already!

[India Four Two]

I'll stick my neck way out, and ask that if someone sees me about to land wheels up on the ground, that they do radio, and tell me. A and C has enough work already!

Even better, if they radio you to tell you that the wheels are down for a water landing!;)

[Rocket2]

"Who'd have thought they could be so close to the brink of being startled into losing control!"

ST - I realise that that statement was probably very tongue in check but all pilots / drivers are easily distracted. I have witnessed two such accidents following a "wheel up" call on short finals, both gliders were severely trashed & one of the pilots is still in a wheel chair.
In the gliding world there is the line "there are those that have (landed wheel up) & those who are going to" - been there, made my mark much to my eternal shame.
Blue skies
R2

[9 lives]

Hmmm, I am very low experienced flying gliders, having only been a few times, but it worries me the thought that informing a glider pilot of an unsafe situation prior to landing could cause so much distraction that they would lose control. If the pilot has forgotten to extend the wheel, and upon being informed if that by radio, decides that it would be unsafe to take action, that is what it is - not great, but not an injurious crash.

For myself, for the very few times that I consider the radio to be a potential distraction, I will turn it down, if the environment permits. The pilot is permitted to take reasonable action to prevent troubling distraction. I don't believe that a pilot can reasonably claim that a radio call distracted to the point of a loss of control.

When I am training power pilots, I would have little tolerance for the claim that a radio call caused a distraction which affected flight safety.

And I reassert, that were I to be the person providing the RG aircraft, and I asked the prospective pilot: "Have you had a gear up?" and the response was: "No, so I'm going to", that pilot simply would not be flying my plane - wrong attitude!

[londonblue]

Step Turn.

I understand what you're trying to say, but I think you may have missed the point regarding the idea of the phrase that there are those pilots that have had a gear up landing and those that will.

My understanding of that phrase is not to absolve the pilot of any responsibility should it actually happen, but to make sure the pilot actually never loses sight of the fact that it could happen, and therefore (s)he should never become complacent.

Basically, my interpretation of this would ensure I am as careful as you would expect me to be, because if I'm not then there is a chance it could happen to me.

(That said, I have never flown an aeroplane with RG!)

[mary meagher]

Dear old Step Turn, you are very starchy indeed, coming from a different discipline, one where you do stately approaches, airline style patterns with right angle turns onto base and again onto finals, with most of your flights no doubt under the useful control of ATC. And three green lights to remind you your wheels are down, AND the option to go around and fly past for observation if you think the wheels didn't go down, and a very expensive insurance claim, mess on the runway, delays to other traffic, and tea and biscuits with your employer.

A glider pilot may not be as experienced as you. And has not the option of going around, he has to get it right the first time. If landing on a farmers field, the altitude readings are guesswork, you have a lot of judgement calls to make.

If the wheel is forgotten it is no big deal for a glider. But the last minute radio call has actually been the trigger for an accident, as other posters have testified. The last little item that can ruin your entire day, just like the famous EFATO can trigger the nose high turn back to the "safety" of the airfield and end up with barbecued pilot.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Any pilot turning onto a final approach should not be distracted from his primary task by helpful unprofessional radio calls....

[9 lives]

The phrase "you have, or you will" has been around since about the second RG plane. It's a joke. But pilots seem to have adopted it as a cultural excuse. This is a lazy mindset, there is no excuse for forgetting to properly select the landing gear.

People say "Oh' no one was hurt, it's only a bent propeller, and belly damage...". If those people feel so casual about that damage, then I hope they don't expect the insurance companies I pay premiums to, to pay for the damage. All of our rates go up. They can pay A and C directly for the repairs.

This lazy mindset, applied to amphibian flying could easily be fatal. Great attention is paid during amphibian type training to assure landing gear position, and configuration assurance - because no aircraft warning system can indicate the wrong landing gear position to the pilot. The pilot is entirely responsible for the determination, and it's really easy to get it wrong with inattention. We don't tolerate lazy thinking or excuses about landing gear.

If you are a competent pilot, you will safely manage the configuration of the aircraft in all phases of flight - configuration assurance. You will not continue into the next phase of flight, until you have assured that the aircraft is safely configured. And, you'll manage cockpit distractions at least as required to assure configuration. Or, you need more training for that aircraft type.

This is about pilot attitude. Would you stand at the booking counter for your rental, and say "I'll probably crash."? Would they rent you the plane? Saying "I'll probably land with the gear up" is not much better.....

[Above The Clouds]

Oh dear; "Step Turn" please take a chill pill and relax, in your perfect world of aviation I hope you never have any kind of cockpit distraction or god forbid an incident otherwise your insurance premiums could go through the roof.

[Andrewgr2]

Step Turn
I think you have missed the point about the hazard to glider pilots from the last moment radio call. It is not the call itself that causes the accident. Typically, the glider will have turned on to final at around 300'. They will have their right hand on the stick and the left operating the airbrakes. They hear a radio call telling them that their wheel is up. In most gliders the undercarriage lever is on the right side of the cockpit. They have to take their right hand off the stick, releasing the airbrake lever to place their left hand on the stick. In most gliders, the airbrakes won't stay where they are when the lever is released. This is more than likely going to cause a significant change in the previously stable approach. If they are lucky, they can get the wheel down, put their right hand back on the stick and their left on the airbrake lever, restore a stable approach, round out and land. If not... :{ Does this make the problem clearer?

If the undercarriage lever is on the left, they still have to release the airbrake lever to operate it. Not easy.

[nonsense]

I was talking to a non-pilot a while ago and told him how a Yak52 I once had a share in had done a wheels-up landing (not by me!).

What picture does that generate in your mind?


Since no one else is prepared to say it, I will.

Given that you're asking the question, and that the response was from a non-pilot, the picture which that generated in my mind looked something like this:

"What, it landed upside down? How did that happen?"

That doesn't mean that's what I thought you meant, just that I can see how someone who hadn't heard the phrase before might arrive there and say that before they got to the correct meaning.

That sort of thing has certainly happened to me before, though I usually manage to realise and burst out laughing at my preposterous alternative meaning, leaving the expert to stop and think about what they just said, rather than giving them the punchline for free.

[9 lives]

Does this make the problem clearer?

Yes, I suppose, as said, my experience in gliders is very little.

This is more than likely going to cause a significant change in the previously stable approach.

But the glider was trimmed for a stable approach?

I am learning that gliders have a unique condition (in that a go around is not possible), so I would think that training, and circuit discipline would be employed to mitigate this.

please take a chill pill and relax, in your perfect world of aviation I hope you never have any kind of cockpit distraction

I'm pretty relaxed flying my planes, though I try to not become complacent.

I have endured all kinds of cockpit distraction, and done my best with it. So far, far from perfect, but adequate. I have never made an insurance claim.

I am unwilling to waste my time repairing an aircraft I damaged, and I sure can't afford to pay someone else to do it, so I don't cause the damage - and everyone is happy.

Now, one of my jobs is to train amphibian pilots. Most recently in a $900,000 182. I cannot even afford the $25,000 damage deductible, should I damage it. Sliding the floats down a runway could exceed that. Landing it in the water with the wheels down, will cause a total loss claim, and probably risk to life. Not only must I not do this, I must train others not to do this. When I train pilots who have never flow RG, that sometimes you must land wheels down, and sometimes you must land wheels up, and there is nothing to tell you that you're about to do the wrong thing, there is no part way - it's right or wrong. Wrong is $$.

So, I'm generally pretty relaxed, until I see a change in flight phase coming, then, no guff, we're going to get it right, no matter how much I have to distract or scare you - I'll make it chilling - so it's memorable. To make my point, I have in the past, while training a careless pilot, waited until to later point down final (at which point I could barely get the wheels up myself, should the engine quit) and called out sharply "pull up and go around!". The then VERY distracted pilot must do that, continue to maintain control of the aircraft, and figure out why I called that with no warning. Believe me, It's unforgettable - and that's the point.

I know that it "can" happen to any of us, but it shouldn't. How could I train and send off an RG/amphibian pilot, who I believed did not understand the importance of this? Should they have a water accident in a cold, very remote lake, it will be fatal. So, I like to train it right first time, and with no room for tolerance of getting it wrong.

When you're 100 miles from the nearest other person, and 300 miles from a town, with 3 degree C water, you've got to get the gear position right the first time!

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b617/jim246/IMG_2419_zpsffd30c37.jpg

[Crash one]

Using cliches such as Those that have & those that will are no more than a pre-programmed excuse for the day it happens. Aviate Navigate Communicate, no more than common sense, fly the bloody thing! Zero tolerance should be applied.
As for swapping hands in a glider. I was taught not to use the air brakes as a helicopter collective but wait till they are needed, select and lock. No doubt that will enrage the gliderers on current slippery glass stuff but, I have to select stage one then stage two flaps with a right hand, throttle with the left hand , trim with the right hand, stick in the middle. However the gear is down & bolted.

[mary meagher]

Well, even though I was rude to Step Turn, he sure does take some wonderful photographs! and is kind enough to share them at the head of our Private Flying Forum.

Only place I ever flew a seaplane was Jack Browns, in Florida. Great fun.

[Crash one]

I would hope that Step Turn didn't actually take that picture, beautiful place that it is.
Once watched a TV programme about a float pilot who sank it in a lake, 3 weeks later an aircraft landed and the poor sod wouldn't let go of the tail as the pilot assured him he wouldn't leave him behind.

[9 lives]

The key idea for me is primacy. If we teach new pilots that we expect their landing gear up as a "when" rather than remote failing "if", they won't take landing gear position seriously, and a check pilot will have to change their thinking as they grow in their career. My 11 year old daughter, has for years, recited aloud with me "Wheels are down for landing on land" or "Wheels are up for landing on water" after I state where we will be landing. So I have an 11 year old doing configuration assurance, and I'm talking aloud in the cockpit like an 11 year old!

When I take the amphibian camping, my mates always know where Ive gone, and will come for me if needed. That camping night, they all (14 friends in 7 airplanes, together on the trip) wanted to fish, I wanted to see the arctic. I made a very detailed plan, and stuck to it. I never flew more than 1/2 mile off the preagreed route, so they would know exactly where to fly to look for me, if I did not return. And, I have a SPOT and sat phone.

But I reminded myself that a very simple problem becomes very serious a long way from civilization. I was prepared for a week away alone, and to make many repairs to the plane, right up to riveting a patch if I had to.

If we are using "sayings" to reassure new pilots of how to do things right, and that they should make the effort, that's fine. But the saying can't become the lazy excuse.

This video might be of interest to pilots who take flying RG's less than totally seriously. It lengthy, and not cheery, but should be required watching in my opinion..

No Greater Burden: Surviving an Aircraft Accident - AOPA (http://www.aopa.org/Education/Safety-Videos/No-Greater-Burden)

[chevvron]

As a retired ATCO now an AFISO, I would always tell a pilot his gear is up if his intention is to land.
I had an occurence about 3 years ago with a single engine retractable. When he made his 'final' call, I told him his gear wasn't down; waited and still it didn't come down. Told him again; still it didn't come down. On short final, I told him again, loudly, and suggested he go around; then the gear came down.
He came up the tower to thank me afterwards (no bottle of whisky included though) explaining he'd had a prop runaway and thus had been distracted.
If the pilot hears your call and elects to land as in the gliders above, it's their decision; they should be able to assess if the surface they are landing on will damage their aircraft. In the absence of a skid on modern sailplanes, I would assume the fuselage near the wheel is reinforced 'just in case', after all, if you're landing in a field somewhere having run out of lift, you'd hardly expect there to be someone there to tell you your wheel is not down.

[Andrewgr2]

Crash one
Modern gliders do not have locks on the air brake lever (except the one that locks them closed). On approach, the glider pilot uses the stick to control speed and the airbrake, much like the power lever in a power plane, to control the rate of descent so as to land at the desired location. Ideally the final turn should be planned so that 1/2 - 2/3 airbrake is used throughout the final approach. There is then scope to adjust for overshoot or under shoot by opening or closing the brakes. Setting full brake and leaving it there would not be a normal approach. There may be exceptions, but in gliders I have flown, the brakes will not stay where they are in an intermediate position if the lever is released, they may open or close. Even if the glider is trimmed for the desired approach speed, opening the brakes may well result in a trim change. Operating the undercarriage lever is also likely to cause a trim change even if only due to the pilot leaning forward a little when putting the undercarriage down. Letting go of the stick to operate the gear lever and brake lever simultaneously is not an option. Of course the gear should definitely be down before the final turn - we teach that it should be done as a pre-circuit joining check (along with dumping water ballast and checking for loose items). If the gear is not down and the pilot is switched on, it may be possible to safely lower it on final. Doing it a few feet above the ground as a reaction to a panicky radio call is likely to result in a heavy landing or worse.

[Rocket2]

To all
This topic has got mixed up by those who fly power & those who fly gliders. Obviously you cannot "go around" in a glider unless you have a death wish & disregard for the beautiful sleek machines that I blessed to be able to fly. Moving the airbrakes in & out on a glider also moves the centre of pressure & hence the trim to a small or large extent depending on design, thereby de-stabilising the approach & changing the approach angle of a good single seater from 1 in 12 back to 1 in 45+ in an instant if your distracted.
If your a power pilot & would like a demo of a stable wheels up approach changing late on to attempt to getting the mythical wheel down & locked please contact me for a flight, I think you may surprise yourself (& those on the field if they're not aware of what's going on)
Lastly on some gliders (specifically those modified for "disabled" pilots) intermediate stops can be fitted in the airbrake system, easily done & STC approved, likewise some glider designs such as LS4's & 8's the airbrakes are difficult, if not impossible to open with the wheel up due to the proximity of the two levers.
Blue skies
R2

[9 lives]

thereby de-stabilising the approach & changing the approach angle of a good single seater from 1 in 12 back to 1 in 45+ in an instant if your distracted.

And, with this, I learn.

So gliders may well have an airborne point after which the wheel cannot be safely lowered. This obviously requires pilot management. It seems the best to me that the pilot manage this by assuring the wheel is down much earlier in the approach to land, accepting that there after, lowering the wheel is impractical.

The pilot also has to manage distractions to assure that they can safely maintain control. Thus, it sounds like turning the radio right down on final would be a good idea, so as to prevent such distractions. I will often do this while flying a helicopter in close to ground operations, or test flying something fairly intense up high. I tell people aboard not to talk, and tell anyone listening on the radio, I'm off the air for a few seconds.

I say the forgoing, again, for primacy. Teach it right the first time. If you know that circumstances are going to change in the next phase of flight, prepare as you know that you'll need to, so you're not behind the plane. This is a pilot discipline. Pilot discipline should be taken with the same seriousness in a glider as a GA, as a jet as a helicopter. Use your skill to anticipate, and get it right. I would not accept the notion that "it's only a glider, so stern discipline is not needed", it sounds like it is. Believing that some glider pilots go one to fly power, and perhaps onward to fly bigger power, these basic pilot disciplines should be trained in from the beginning.

So we assure configuration each time as required, and we take action to prevent distraction - while flying any aircraft.

[Rocket2]

Just to clarify - we (in the BGA) teach WULF (pre-landing checks) while in the early part of the circuit (or even earlier) long before the student goes solo in any glider (or should do) - the U is for Undercarriage (down & locked) - the fact that in the heat of a field landing or a less than perfect circuit, the pilot forgets to lower the wheel is academic, no one has ever been hurt landing a glider wheel up, too many have while trying to when its too late. Powered aircraft are a different matter & should not be confused or parallels drawn.

[9 lives]

pilot forgets to lower the wheel is academic, no one has ever been hurt landing a glider wheel up, too many have while trying to when its too late

Very interesting. From a certification standpoint, there is a delicate balance between pilot skill, and what's possible in the aircraft. The design requirement for a certified glider is about:

It must be possible to make a smooth transition from one flight condition to another (including turns and slips) without danger of exceeding the limit load factor, under any probable operating condition

If, during testing, the test pilot deemed it not possible for a pilot of average skill to transition from one to an other phase of flight, which (for me) would include operating the landing gear, there might come a requirement for a placard, and limitation requiring that an action be performed before it could no longer be safely performed. This can be the underlying reason for some rather odd placards we see on aircraft, 'cause the test pilot found something, that regular pilots probably should not.

But, as I said, my glider flying is very limited, so I speak from the requirements for safe power plane certification, and operation.

Presuming that diligent glider pilots succeed with WULF, or their equivalent, and the wheel is always where it should be, no problem. But I still would not accept a lazy excuse for forgetting it when it is supposed to be operated. "Has happened, or will happen [to a pilot]" is a lazy excuse.....

[Piper.Classique]

In France we have glider pre landing checks also....
With a silly memnonic too. Plus a short pause before entering the circuit, when height permits, in which we can configure the glider for landing, and check the configuration. This is in the area just outside the power circuit, where we can get down gently to circuit height. Why? To allow time for ballast to drain, among other things such as lowering the wheel where appropriate, checking straps, fitting in with other glider traffic, etc. If time does not permit because height available is only just adequate, then we use the check list as a do list when downwind. (In which case the water probably got dumped long ago, when struggling to stay up in weak lift). The downwind call includes the gear status. Some people still manage to land gear up, and as others have said, the damage is trivial or nil.

Airbrakes.....On most gliders will suck out if not locked. Most, not all. Most gliders have a trim change with brakes, and current teaching here (France) is to train glider pilots thus:

There is an ideal approach plan at around half brake effectiveness.
Show that to the student. Lower than that, close the brakes without locking them for a few seconds. Much lower, close them for a few more seconds. Leave the trim alone while doing this, unless it is a trigger on the stick. Most pilots have two hands. None of them have three. Adjust attitude to maintain the chosen approach speed. Then go back to half brake. Adjust attitude to maintain the chosen approach speed. Is the glideslope now good? If so maintain half brake. If not then open or close brakes fully as required.

Above the plan, open brakes fully for a few seconds..Etc..

Round out, hold off.....keep the wings level, height constant (by pitching gently up) the speed will decay.Wait.....Preferably keep eyes open at this point, but you are going to land anyway.

It is considered good form to land with at least half brake, even better form to land with the maximum brake possible short of actuating the wheel brake. This refinement is taught once the student is making consistent approaches at or very close to the ideal glide slope, and shortens the float. So, round out and hold off while increasing the amount of brake, keep the wings level and height constant as the speed decays.

There are techniques to salvage the approach if ridiculously high, but not much one can do if really low. Fortunately a modern glider will go quite a long way without brake, but that doesn't help if there are obstacles to clear, or heavy sink on approach. So, don't throw the height away too soon, or do a very long flat approach. One could consider this a good practice in a single with glide angle of about 10:1 rather than dragging in with flaps and power.

Oh yes, flapped gliders. Not usual on trainers, but the principle is the same. Set the flaps as required then leave them alone. It's just like landing a lower performance glider. Retracting flaps on final approach tends to result in undesirable sink, so don't lower the flaps until you are sure of the field.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Whoaa! Thread drift! Mega thread drift!

Thank you 'nonesense' for an on-topic reply. ;)

[Rocket2]

"Has happened, or will happen [to a pilot]" is a lazy excuse"
Not wishing to extend this any further but not so, just a saying (we have lots of those in the UK).
Any WUL's are investigated by the club or BGA in the UK & appropriate action taken. The aircraft's insurance company will also take a view if they are contacted. Thankfully most gliders land on grass (or mud at this time of year :{) so little or no damage is done except to the pilot's pride :(
No flaps on trainers (agreed not usually) think Janus, Blanik, ASH25 (if your rich!) + a few others
Blue skies
R2

[9 lives]

Whoaa! Thread drift! Mega thread drift!

Oh, I don't know SSD, every post (but yours! ;)) on this page does refer to retractable landing gear/wheel in the context of it's being lowered or not.

I think I did see some other stuff in amongst too though....

Honestly, my hope is that the many people who have read here, but not posted, take away a renewed sense of pilot responsibility in respect of being ahead of an RG aircraft. If that has happened, the circular banter of us old folk has had the desired benefit!

[9 lives]

'Just appeared elsewhere....

LiveLeak.com - Gear-Up Landing in Slow Motion (Fail)

[mary meagher]

Here's another short story. Its a good idea, before you fly any aircraft, power or powerless, to sit in it before you fly. Does it fit your body? locate the instruments, the switches, the flight director, the levers, the controls. Adjust the seat for best lookout. Make sure your parachute is comfortable, you may be up for seven or eight hours on a long cross country. Got juice or water, a banana for in flight refreshment. Pee bags accessible. Etc etc etc. And of course you have planned the flight, checked the route, NOTAMS, weather, phone numbers to call if you land out, remembered to bring the phone.....

And remembered to switch on the datalogger, the batteries are fully charged....only a few details to look after before joining the launch queue.

Dear old chap, only a few years younger than me, a vastly experienced instructor, asked if he could have a flight in my pegasus glider. Sure, I said.
And left him to get on with it, the usual first steps of becoming acquainted with the craft. Alas, the U/C lever was in an unfamiliar place...and when I turned again to look, the glider was squatting inelegantly down on the grass, wheel up! Undercarriage doors splayed, but not damaged. One of those delightful moments you don't let a friend forget!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

And don't forget, Mary, that with a tail dragger the view out the front when the aeroplane is parked is generally the view you are looking for at the point of a fully held-off touchdown just as all 3 wheels squeak down. :cool: :O

Of course, it'll look different if you do a 'wheeler', and if it's a trike and you get the 'as parked' view at touchdown.... go learn to land!