View Full Version : Airport Incident

23rd May 2002, 17:11
Taken from my Oldham Chronicle newspaper.

'AN inquiry has been launched after a JMC airlines Boeing 757 collided with a tug which was towing it from the terminal building at Manchester Airport, this morning.
The 234 passengers on board had to leave the aircraft as engineers checked for damage after the 7.30am accident.
A JMC spokesman said the holidaymakers would be delayed for about three-and-a-half hours while a replacement airliner was brought in.'

Does anyone know how this might have happened?
Does anyone know if anybody was injured?


23rd May 2002, 18:17
These things happen regularly, press make it sound life threatening, probably just a dent in the aircraft.

23rd May 2002, 19:51
The aircraft collided with the tug after it had been disconnected following push back. The aircraft either rolled forward or commenced taxiing before the ground crew and tug were clear.

This sort of incident has happened in the past at BA and it is drummed into us not to request taxi clearance until both the tug and headset operator are clear and flaps deployed to T/O setting.
It's all on the checklist........

23rd May 2002, 20:16
From what I could see this morning the tug was one of those towbarless ones and the a/c had moved forward and jammed it's nose wheels between the twp outriggers of the tug.
A major operation was in progress with air bags under the fwd & aft fuselage to support the weight whilst a lot of folks stood around scratching their heads and taking photos!!

By all accounts the a/c sustained minor damage but the tug was a mess. Which makes a change considering some of the recent posts concerning ground equipment and damage to a/c.

Now then, where are all those PRUNERS who were demanding that any ground staff that damage an a/c on the ramp should be immediately sacked????

Ahhh, the beautiful sound of silence!!!
:D ;)

23rd May 2002, 21:12

I am surprised that you didn't realize that the problem was total brake failure while the engines were at full idle!! :D

What ATPL would ever begin their taxi before receiving clearence from the headset operator and "clearing" the tug out of the way?? :) :)

23rd May 2002, 22:35
while the engines were at full idle!!

Is that as opposed to idle idle?

What ATPL would ever begin their taxi before receiving clearence from the headset operator and "clearing" the tug out of the way??

It has happened and to many different companies!

24th May 2002, 00:09
How do you know they started to taxi before cleared by ground AA SLF??

24th May 2002, 01:55
Not saying that the MAN incident was the same cause, but aircraft taxiing before the tug has cleared does happen, even if checklisted. Found an example in November's AAIB bulletin of a BA 744 at LHR taxiing then colliding with the tug after pushback.

24th May 2002, 06:39

What ATPL would ever begin their taxi before receiving clearence from the headset operator and "clearing" the tug out of the way??

Can't possibly have been an ATPL holders fault they never make mistakes do they!!!!!!!!


24th May 2002, 07:33
HotDog -

All I know is what I read from the posts above mine. That's why I said it must have been brake failure - probably with a severly sloping ramp. :D I would never say that an ATPL holder ("although others might say it") would EVER begin to taxi without clearing the right-of-way. :) However - M.Mouse, I believe, implies that that might have happened more than once in the past. Hard to imagine though, the ATPL profession being so "professional" and all. :D Could it have been the BIG WATCH obscuring the PIC's view??

Checklists, checklists - what checklist? What - me worry? Nah.

Yea though I ride through the Valley of Death, I shall fear naught, for I am the meanest rooten-tooten sun-of-a-gun on this planet. (paraphrasing the well known quote).

It had to be brake failure!! :D

24th May 2002, 07:43
Not wanting to cast aspersions on the diligence of my colleagues in the flight deck, I have first hand experience of taxi-ing before ground staff are clear of the aircraft. A large airliner with three engines once rolled right over the top of me after I had done the headset. I was obviously quite surprised at the time as I was just walking to the side to show him my pretty red ribbon with the pin on the end. I wont say who or when but it happened. In this instanceat MAN, whilst the incident might not have threatened the lives of the passengers or crew I bet the poor guy in the tug was a tad concerned! Accidents happen, its our job to try and mitigate the chances of them happening.

24th May 2002, 08:21
Not a good day for UK charter 75's, Air Transport Intellegence reporting that ZB broke one at GIB a couple of days back, hard landing. :(

24th May 2002, 08:40
It must have been brake failure


You're not a CNN journalist by any chance are you?

Wait for the AAIB report - it might take a while but the real reason will be there for all to see.........

24th May 2002, 09:55

ZB ??

Enlighten me please ?

24th May 2002, 10:55
Monarch Airlines. ATI says smacked nosewheel into the deck, a/c will be u/s for at least a fortnight.

24th May 2002, 12:24
Regularly have a/c call for taxi whilst tug is still attached - why ?

24th May 2002, 21:04
ETOPS and all others -

My posting was in "jest", or possible sarcasm. Just being a bit of a "wisea**" and trying to see if the Big Watches would rise to the bait. I normally hangout in JB, where fun in postings is a regular occurance. I should have known that trying some "fun" in R&N just wouldn't go over at all!!

NO - I am not a CNN person, nor a journalist of any kind. Look how poorly I put my words togather in my postings. Embarassment is the operative word.

Just a humble software person who flies his butt off every week on AA all over the globe (Oneworld mostly overseas - I like Nigel but they are expensive; the BIG RAT also expensive).

ps - I think you have one of the better "signature" lines. I really like it as it is in a "fun" type of statement. FUN, did say that? :eek:

In any case ATPLs, hang in there if you can, airtravel will return to normal someday - and GOOD LUCK to y'all in any event.

See - that's my serious side. :)

In trim
24th May 2002, 22:06
Recently had 737 crew forget to set brakes.....started to roll forward as Despatcher was in the nose-wheel bay removing the bypass pin.

Result....one very shaken Despatcher but could definitely have been worse!

Mr @ Spotty M
24th May 2002, 22:07
Konkordski if you or anyone at ATI can get the ZB a/c back in the air in two weeks the job is yours.
Contact either ZB or Mr Boeing.

25th May 2002, 06:33
From AA SLF's post on page 1:What ATPL would ever begin their taxi before receiving clearence from the headset operator and "clearing" the tug out of the way??

The most memorable such incident I ever saw in person was in YSCB in the very early 70’s when HM was out touring the colonies and was doing so in Ron Raff’s VIP BAC111. Come her departure from YSCB, (with the whole nine yards of pomp and circumstance, including the GG, the PM and camera crews from all four Australian television networks along with a relatively large crowd of onlookers), it was very, very windy.

Let’s set the scene in detail so it’s quite clear in everyone’s mind. YSCB’s VIP apron is to the south of the 34 Squadron hangar, with the area for the guard of honour and the seats for VIPs immediately in front of it. The VIP aircraft always line up facing east so the VIPs can turn for one last photo op and give their adoring subjects one last wave before they step through the aircraft door and have their first (doubtlessly long awaited) gin and tonic.

In Canberra, there’s frequently a westerly wind, more often than not a strong westerly wind (which is fortuitous, since it means the hats of the guard of honour end up strewn among the parked helicopters rather than out on the active runway, which is immediately to the west of the apron).

And as I’ve said already, this day it was very, very windy. So much so, that the captain of the VIP BAC111, (for the sake of anonymity, we’ll call him “Flight Lieutenant Smith”), decided it was too strong to start the engines with his tail into wind.

Now logic would dictate a reeeeeaaaaaly simple answer to a problem as straightforward as that ….wouldn’t it? Park the aircraft into wind for engine start.

Ahhh, no, dear reader. You are not allowing for the (senior) military mind.

The PowersThatBe decided that it would be completely beneath HM’s dignity to have to board the aircraft through the smaller catering door on the right side of the aircraft if the -111 was facing west. And they couldn’t have her walking all the way around to the far side of the aircraft to ascend the steps out of sight of the cameras and the adoring crowd. She would have to board as usual and the aircraft would have to be parked as usual and “Flt Lt Smith” would have to deal with it.

So, dutiful young officer that he was, “Flt Lt Smith” followed orders. HM arrived, inspected the (mostly hatless) guard of honour, said goodbye to the GG and the PM, ascended the steps, turned for her last wave to the crowd, allowing the cameramen to get their all-important one last photo op, and the doors were closed and the steps pulled away. Now “Flt Lt Smith” wasn’t particularly happy with his orders, so he decided that he’d start only one engine while his tail was facing into wind and turn the aircraft into wind before he started his second engine. Doubtlessly, he informed the groundcrew of this and thoroughly briefed them on this non-SOP procedure. And everyone understood exactly what the other would be doing. …right? Right.

“Flt Lt Smith” proceeded to start the first engine, doubtlessly watching the EGT gauge very closely to ensure the strong tailwind didn’t cause an overtemp. He then obtained taxi clearance…

…and with every dignitary in the land and four television network camera crews filming his every move, proceeded to taxi (not very smoothly) over the chocks, which were still in place. Now considerable power is required to get the aircraft over the chocks even with both engines operating. With only one, it must be somewhere near takeoff thrust. (It sounded like it to the assembly.)

I’m not sure what was the more arresting sight – the way the aircraft lurched drunkenly as it flopped back to earth having finally scaled the chocks with power rapidly returning towards idle, or the hapless engineer, who was still attached to the left side of aircraft by his headset lead. On the outside of the turn, he was running at full tilt as the -111 turned away from the crowd, blasting them with not inconsiderable jet efflux. What he was saying to “Flt Lt Smith” I don’t know, but I don’t think it was quite within the bounds of normal enlisted man-to-officer military protocol.

I’ve always wondered at the scene inside the aircraft cabin, with the Royal party quite possibly on their Royal derrieres on the floor, and I’ve often wondered at the PA “Flt Lt Smith” might have made after departure.

If anyone believes this unlikely tale might be untrue, I’m sure there is quite memorable footage of the incident in the film archives of all four Australian television networks.

26th May 2002, 02:17
Can anyone post a link to the above?

26th May 2002, 02:24

B*ow Me.

You say one thing in your post, then when challanged you recant and say you "implied" or whatever.

My advice to you is get the license, then critisize.

To talk the talk, you must first walk the walk.

26th May 2002, 20:14
D3G -

You said -
B*ow Me.

What did I say to merit that kind of response? Is it that time of the month again for you? :)

"Recant" - no way. "Get a license before I can critisize"? Don't need the license since I am a fare paying pax who has spent the money for safe, reliable transport by the Capt. If the mechanical is caused by a "mistake" by the Capt. then I believe I have every right to critisize!

So - what circumstances could have caused this event?

Brake failure
Failure to "hold" the brakes while unhooking the tug
Beginning the taxi before "clearing" the taxi path

I believe that the last two items are Pilot ERROR and therefore fair game for critisizm (sp?).

dah-dit-dah-dit dah-dit-dah (see I do have a license).

Pilot Pete
26th May 2002, 21:49

So - what circumstances could have caused this event?

Brake failure

Failure to "hold" the brakes while unhooking the tug

Beginning the taxi before "clearing" the taxi path

How about (incorrect) wave off from the ground crew indicating the tug was clear? You can't see a tug under the nose on a 757. FYI the ground crew member is responsible for the a/c not hitting anything during push back until such time as the captain tells him he is clear to disconnect and asks him for wave-off and display of the pin.

Also, FYI the brakes aren't "held" on by the pilots during uncoupling.......the parking brake is set to park and the ground crew are informed of this before permission is given to uncouple the tug.

I don't know what happened, but there for the grace of God go all of us.....have you never made a mistake whilst parking your car and bumped the one behind? Sometimes these things just happen, even to the best of us.


26th May 2002, 23:26
Pilot Pete -

Thanks for making me realize that I hadn't thought it through all the way. My mind in neutral - maybe the same as the event we are talking about.

ADD ground crew mistake to the above list.

However - if I was the tug driver and my ground crew chief gave the Capt. a "clear to taxi" while I was still too close, me and the ground crew boss would have very very serious words. Like maybe wrapping the headset cord around his neck tightly!

27th May 2002, 09:53
I can see this one heading JB's way.......

Dagger Dirk
27th May 2002, 12:14
Reminds me of another YSCB VVIP fiasco in which I figured back in 1968. I was scheduled to be Orderly Dog (aka Orderly Officer) on the day that Ethiopian Emperor Highly Salubrious (http://history.acusd.edu/gen/text/selassie.html) (aka Haile Selassie, Lion of Judah, etc1892-1975) blew into town in his Ethiopian Airlines 707. It was the first and last OZ visit of the last of the Solomonic Kings, the Abyssinian Emperor being a lineal descendant of the Queen of Sheba and one of the ancient Christian Kings of Biblical Mythologic Lore. He'd fought off Mussolini's troops in the Italian invasion of Ethiopia in 1935 and was much beloved of his people. The Base Commander was ACDRe Sam ?? and he was greatly concerned that things should go off without a hitch for the Royal Visit. In particular he had visions of the Australian media out of control and storming the barricades during the pomp and pageantry of the welcoming ceremony. So my brief at his assembly the day before - of functionaries for the distinguished visit - was to position the scores of Service Police under my control and avoid any such pitch invasion by having the Service Police intervene as early as possible and manhandle them off the premises so to speak. I duly briefed my Orderly Sergeant and Orderly Officer Understudy exactly what I expected of them - and they briefed the SPits. It was all going to be a little difficult because I'd be standing at attention at the foot of the steps, facing front and giving the salute in standard fashion. However I wanted to be sure that nothing went awry and knew that if it did, I'd be held personally responsible - so I organised some hand signals that the Orderly Sergeant could act upon. The Orderly sergeant was a chopper crewman from 5 Sqn and wasn't all that smart - but he knew that if he got the signal to act, exactly what he should do.

So the first part (landing and taxi-in with flags waving) went off well and the momentous moment when the diminutive five foot tall figure of his Excellency emerged and stood resplendent at the top of the a/c front door for his National Anthem, wearing his impressive array of medals (http://www.medals.org.uk/ethiopia/ethiopia-text.htm) was a real crowd stopper. Even though small in stature, Hailie Selassie looked like something out of a bygone era, with his military uniform swathed in the huge leopard skin robe that he always wore on State occasions. A very very distinguished gentleman indeed - something out of the historical story-books, almost a total anachronism for that day and age. As the fading strains of his Anthem receded, He was announced as:

His Imperial Majesty Negus Negast, His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I (Power of the Holy Trinity) Emperor of Ethiopia, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Conquering Lion of the Tribe of Judah, Elect of God, Light of the Universe his standard imperial salutation (http://ras_richard.tripod.com/selassie/68proverbs.htm). A more solemn and regal occasion you couldn't imagine. Just as he took his first step downward I caught the flash of a flashbulb close by and heard the whirr of a camera and I knew it was time for me to leap into action. Still standing at the salute I managed to flash the other hand gesture to my trusty Orderly Sergeant and the team closed in and manhandled the interlopers away. The Lion of Judah looked a bit perplexed but continued his regal descent of the steps and the greeting ceremony continued. A little later, the royal motorcade had departed and I couldn't quite understand the mixture of dark looks and sniqgers that seemed to be intended for me. I couldn't quite comprehend at that point - but did later when I watched it on TV in the O's Mess bar. From a middle distance shot you could clearly distinguish his retinue deplaning from the aft stairs and his official PR people pealing off to get the obligatory piccies of H.E. descending the stairs - when out of nowhere a horde of SP's, capped and armbanded like Nazi stormtroopers, descend upon them and hustled them off out of the picture - stage right. Puggerr. I was P.O.R.'d never to do RAAF Fairbairn O/O ever again and found myself in Vietnam a week later. (I guess the appropriate punishment was so obvious they couldn't help themselves). But I got my own back later when, under a different administration and with a chestful of medals they decided I was the obvious choice to fly the GG, mount the Honour Guard for the Opening of Parliament, Battle of Britain Day and various other Moratorium Crowd crowd-pleasers. Plenty of regrets all around there too - but that's another story.
http://www.iasa-intl.com/folders/images/lionofjudah.gif http://www.iasa-intl.com/folders/images/hands.gif

H.I.M. displaying here the mystical and metaphysical "Salutation of Peace" or the Sign of the Holy Trinity. The triangle pointing downwards is an esoteric symbol representing the maternal phase of the Seal of Solomon; the six - pointed star is also known as the Star of David.

29th May 2002, 20:59
It will be a great shame if the cost to repair NC is thought too high and our lords and masters decide enough is enough. Like a number of us I have the odd hour on her in my own log book as well.

I do remember operating into Gib many times when I used to wear a blue uniform. Not as simple straight forward approach as some, but then very few of my approaches ever were!

Very unfortunate incident and very sorry for the skipper, crew and pax, such mishaps do happen now and the in the industry.

In the unfirtunate event that the 75 is unable to operate again, anybody know of the odd DC10 lying about!!