Revalidating issues at Donair East Midland

[strollerweb]

Has anybody had an issues revalidating their SEP at Donair Flying Club based at East Midlands airport?

I did, or at least thought i had done my SEP revalidation last August 2013, but did not get a signature from an examiner as I was told told by an instructor and the CFI i did not not need one as I had the new EASE license! This is the first time i have gone through the process and was pretty sure I had understood it, but was convinced otherwise by those that should know about these things. SEP expired November 2013 so i have been flying with an out of date SEP at another airfield in December. lucky, ironically, bad weather and other commitments kept me on the ground through Jan and Feb!

As soon as the error was spotted i attempted to rectify the issue with Donair who informed me that I needed to fly mini skills test with an examiner in order to renew my SEP. Had this all booked up with Donair and a external examiner, but the owner MD has cancelled it and told me to go away! no explanation?

I have now sent a letter to the CAA explaining my situation detailing dates etc and will see what they say. I'm wondering if anyone has been through this type of thing and can give me a heads up on what to expect.

[S-Works]

You will need to do an LPC as your rating has now expired. Seems a bit strange that they have put you in this position.

However if you need some help I can do the LPC for you and I am not far away. Drop me a PM if you want some help.

[ifitaintboeing]

strollerweb,

I am also nearby and can assist with LPC if needed.

It will depend which licence you have opted for: a LAPL has different requirements to a PPL. Happy to guide you through it.

ifitaint...

[Mach Jump]

Hi Strollerweb.

I think Bose and Ifitaintboeing have it covered.

Just to add that if you have a LAPL, It doesn't need a signature. It has a 'rolling' 2 year validity. This means that if you have 12 hours P1, including 12 takeoffs and landings, + 1 hour training with an instructor in the 2 years preceeding the flight you want to do then it is still valid.


MJ:ok:

[strollerweb]

Thank you for the positive feedback. I wonder if the LAPL revalidation is were the confusion came in. Still confused by the attitude and actions of Donair

I actually have a EASA PPL which was converted from the JAR PPL when I added a night endorsement. I have been put in touch with an examiner that lives down the road. But it's good to know there are people there willing to help, thank you Bose and Ifitinboeing for your offers

[Whopity]

Before you go to the Examiner you must have a course completion certificate SRG1119D (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1119Denabled.pdf) signed by an ATO or RF before you can do the test. No training required but you must have this piece of paper.

[S-Works]

Before you go to the Examiner you must have a course completion certificate SRG1119D signed by an ATO or RF before you can do the test. No training required but you must have this piece of paper.

Well remembered Whoppity.

I can assist with that as well being HoT and all that.... :cool:

[strollerweb]

I have a document showing the forms needed, hopefully correct!.

http://strollerweb.co.uk/pdf/CAA%20SEP%20Forms.jpg

[Mach Jump]

No need to worry about the forms. The Examminer will sort that out for you.;)


MJ:ok:

[Level Attitude]

thought i had done my SEP revalidation last August 2013Did you do a Proficiency Check?
In which case find the same Examiner and get them to sign your Rating entry?
NB: Still not legal to fly until you do.

Or do you mean you completed the requirements to revalidate by experience
but then didn't (due bad advice) do the administrative step of getting an
Examiner to sign your paperwork.
In which case you will need, as others have stated, a course completion
certificate and then to pass an LPC with an Examiner to get your
paperwork signed and renew your Rating to become legal again.

[Level Attitude]

strollerweb (http://www.pprune.org/members/347199-strollerweb) Your form is incorrect. There is no need for a Course Completion
Certificate for an SEP Revalidation by LPC (only for Renewal).

[flybymike]

His SEP has expired. It is a renewal, not a revalidation of a current rating.

[strollerweb]

Or do you mean you completed the requirements to revalidate by experience
but then didn't (due bad advice) do the administrative step of getting an
Examiner to sign your paperwork.
In which case you will need, as others have stated, a course completion
certificate and then to pass an LPC with an Examiner to get your
paperwork signed and renew your Rating to become legal again.E]

Yes i had 26hrs in the last 12 months, 14hrs P1 (did a tailwheel and Night endorsement and bunch of check flights on different types). 57 landings and the 1hr with an instructor. Maybe didn't have to do the extra 1hr with an instructor as I had done the two endorsements which would have counted and were signed! more bad advice.......

strollerweb Your form is incorrect. There is no need for a Course Completion
Certificate for an SEP Revalidation by LPC (only for Renewal).
due to lack of signature its now a renewal unfortunately.

To rub salt into wounds the weather has been perfect today, so had Donair allowed me to fly with the examiner I most likely would have all been signed off :* ....its Friday, deep breath and smile :)

[Level Attitude]

due to lack of signature its now a renewal unfortunately.Understood, and my commiserations.

However the form you posted (#8) remains incorrect.
"SEP Revalidation by Prof Check" does not require a Course Completion Certificate

[strollerweb]

However the form you posted (#8) remains incorrect.
"SEP Revalidation by Prof Check" does not require a Course Completion Certificate

sorry misread your post first time around.
I understand by experience and renewal, but not sure about prof check. is that when you dont have enough hours (12hrs, 6hrs, 12 landings etc)?

[Level Attitude]

I understand by experience and renewal, but not sure about prof checkRenewal = A valid Rating is not held (your current case)
Requires an assessment of Training Needs, and hence a "Course Completion Certificate",
before an LPC with an Examiner.
No other options

Revalidation = Rating still valid and wanting to continue maintaining it valid for another
period without break.
No training required, so no "Course Completion Certificate" required.

For SEP two revalidation options available:
- An LPC with an Examiner at any time.
- Revalidation by Experience (gained during the second year of validity)
Both (as you discovered) requiring an Examiner to then complete the paperwork
(sign your Ratings page) to 'action' the Revalidation.

The difference is between Renewal and Revalidation.
Not between "Reval by Experience" and "Reval by Prof Check"

[strollerweb]

Requires an assessment of Training Needs, and hence a "Course Completion Certificate",
before an LPC with an Examiner.


So does this need doing with a different person/instructor other than examiner?

[S-Works]

Yes, it needs to be done with the Head if Training of an ATO. Your examiner could be the HoT as am I but not that many of us.

My offer still stands.

[strollerweb]

Managed to get up on Wednesday and complete the test, licensed signed and all documention sent to the CAA. Fingers crossed it's right this time and not such a drama next time! Thank you all for the advice and support.

[BigEndBob]

This is a typical example of why the human race will become extinct, because no common sense will be applied to anything, certainly the regulators.

You could have someone who has done 100 hours in the last 12 months and goes over by a few days because the date of expiry is printed in micro writing on a licence which might be opened once year to check a medical,
then are forced to do a LPC.

Someone else with the bare minimum, and who you suspect ought to have a flight test can just get signed off.

I came across someone using their UK licence to fly in the US whose 5 year licence expired 4 years ago! It would appear neither the pilot understood he had an expiring licence and the US club didn't know what they were looking at.

[PPLvirgin]

blimey strollerweb,

i nearly went with Donair cos i work in leicester and live in mansfield. in the end I went with phoenix flying club at netherthorpe and passed my PPL a week ago.

to be honest, i wonder and question why things are so complex, also these guys i flew with were the friendliest guys i could have met, but organisation could have been better at times, but to be honest i think it is not the easiet profession to run.

amusingly i dismised donair, more from preference and gut instinct but they did come across professional - in fact i was thinking of doing my night rating with them to get good epxerience from East mids also.

[strollerweb]

The one hour with an instructor should be conducted as a mini test and not just a ride along. To be honest I really enjoyed the test , spiral dives, PFL and my favourite practice bad weather circuits ;) in the gliding world we do check rides every year, cable breaks, aerotow, spot quiz, stalls and spins. It does not hurt to do the same with power flying, although I would like to make it my chose next time.

[India Four Two]

i've just read this thread in stunned amazement. I am SO glad I don't fly in the UK anymore.

What happened to the good old days of an instructor just signing your logbook?

[Echo Romeo]

This is a typical example of why the human race will become extinct, because no common sense will be applied to anything, certainly the regulators.

You could have someone who has done 100 hours in the last 12 months and goes over by a few days because the date of expiry is printed in micro writing on a licence which might be opened once year to check a medical,
then are forced to do a LPC.

Someone else with the bare minimum, and who you suspect ought to have a flight test can just get signed off.

I came across someone using their UK licence to fly in the US whose 5 year licence expired 4 years ago! It would appear neither the pilot understood he had an expiring licence and the US club didn't know what they were looking at.

Your assessment is about spot on imho. No one is allowed to exercise common sense these days, it seems.

[strollerweb]

Your assessment is about spot on imho. No one is allowed to exercise common sense these days, it seems. Nope!

i dismised donair, more from preference and gut instinct but they did come across professional - in fact i was thinking of doing my night rating with them to get good epxerience from East mids also.

EM is a very interesting place to fly, I also did a Night Endorsement there, although the departure lounge lighting keeps everything lit up clear as day, which is a bit of a cheat! - also it took me one and half hours to do 5 full stop landings due to heavy commercial traffic!! orbiting on the downwind leg at night was fun at first, but my wallet soon got bored of it :rolleyes:

[fireflybob]

Your assessment is about spot on imho. No one is allowed to exercise common sense these days, it seems.

ER, I agree. Sadly we now live in the age of "blame culture" and everyone is covering their a***s in case anything should ever go wrong and they can cry "nothing to do with me mate!".

The one hour with an instructor should be conducted as a mini test and not just a ride along.

strollerwebb, am sure your didn't mean it that way but the one hour with an instructor is an "instructional" flight (legally) and is not pass/fail. This issue has been discussed many times before. The instructor signs the logbook signifying the one hour had taken place, that is all.

[fireflybob]

i've just read this thread in stunned amazement. I am SO glad I don't fly in the UK anymore.

What happened to the good old days of an instructor just signing your logbook?

India Four Two, ah yes that would be the halcyon days before Europe and EASA crash landed on the scene!

[Mach Jump]

The one hour with an instructor should be conducted as a mini test and not just a ride along.

You can use your 'hour with a flight instructor' to do any form of training you like. it doesn't have to follow any form of 'test content' That was an illusion the CAA created when they didn't get their way during the introduction of JAR FCL.

So make good use of it and convert to a new type, do some aerobatics, instrument flying, navigation, anything you think would be of benefit to you.


MJ:ok:

[strollerweb]

The one hour with an instructor should be conducted as a mini test and not just a ride along.


Bad chose of words test, had test on the brain! Instructional sounds better.

[taybird]

Did my NR at Donair and loved it. By the time I got to the solo circuit stage, I still had 1h20m of the 5 hour course.
After 6 stop-go's I then did another 5 touch and go circuits to make up the 1h20m. So I guess it's all in the timing.
Agreed it is cheating to do it there, though, it's too easy!