There Seem's to be A Change in Attitude?

[PA28181]

Flying yesterday, I heard at least four incidents of CAS bust's and they were all accepted as genuine mistakes by those ATSU's involved. At least two culprits said sorry for the incursion & were given headings to exit ASAP. One was even two miles adrift.

I hope there is an acceptance that these are genuine mistakes and investigation/prosecution would not serve any purpose, as you will never legislate away people making mistakes. No more than the death penalty has ever stopped a murder.

[mad_jock]

they always have been very understanding to be honest.

If it was a council of pilots that was in charge of the discipline stick I suspect there would be an awful lot more punishments dealt out than there is currently.

[soaringhigh650]

It's a basic rule:

Under no circumstances may one controller permit an aircraft to enter another's airspace without proper coordination. Coordination can be accomplished by several means; i.e., radar handoff, automated information transfer, verbal, point-out, and by prearranged coordination procedures identified in a facility directive that clearly describe the correct application. Airspace boundaries should not be permitted to become barriers to the efficient movement of traffic. In addition, complete coordination, awareness of traffic flow, and understanding of each position's responsibility concerning penetration of another's airspace cannot be overemphasized.

[2 sheds]

'650 - what exactly is the relevance of your "rule"?

2 s

[wb9999]

There are hundreds of airspace infringements each year, when you look at the GA occurrence reports. But less than half a dozen prosecutions.

If you are talking to an ATSU then that will likely stop it going any further (providing it is only minor).

The ones that seem to be prosecuted are when the pilot isn't talking to anyone, cuts right through the approach or take-off paths causing massive inconvenience and tries to cover it up by turning off the transponder.

[soaringhigh650]

2 sheds, you are right. I misread. I was meant to say:
"Would you stop infringing my Class A dog food."

[Desert185]

PA28181

No more than the death penalty has ever stopped a murder.

How do you know that? Having a timely death penalty without 15-20 years of appeals would probably have more effect than not having any death penalty at all. The only way to stop murder is to eliminate humanity. I think we're stuck with murder for a little while longer.

[thing]

I've never quite got the death penalty thing. There are people who want to bring it back as it was a deterrent when we had it. If it was a deterrent why did people still murder each other? It didn't work.

I am however aware that not having the death penalty deosn't work either. A better man than me can work out the solution to that.

[Sir George Cayley]

Hold on a minute. Capital punishment for airspace infringements seems a tad harsh.

SGC

[thing]

I bet if you trialled it though you would still get infringements.

[PA28181]

How do you know that? I'm not going to respond to this.

My quip regarding the death penalty was not meant to start a a debate about something that has no place here. But as with open forums, major thread drift and misquoting go hand-in-hand.

Please stick to the point of the OP.

[RTN11]

the death penalty was not meant to start a a debate

I think you're wrong on that count. Back in the day the UK had more crimes punishable by death than any other country, it seemed that any crime could be debated to the point where it was punishable by death if that was the flavour of the month.

sorry, just couldn't resist a further mis-quoting and thread drift

[thing]

I love thread drift. I once got a thread on another forum diverted in just over two pages from a question about guitar string gauges to the recipe for soda bread. Then they started arguing about that.

[RTN11]

On topic though, I used to work Bournemouth a lot, and actually heard them clear a could of near infringers to enter the zone just before they were about to infringe, even though they hadn't asked for it. I guess it saved on the paperwork if there was absolutely no conflicting traffic, and the clearance came with a restriction to remain within x miles of the zone boundary. Heard it on more than one occasion though.

Then again, I did also hear a weekend flyer from a private strip, when they asked him what service he required, he said "the normal one" they said, "do you mean a basic service", and he said "I'll just have whatever everyone else is having" so perhaps they're not dealing with the best bunch down that way.

[thing]

Then again, I did also hear a weekend flyer from a private strip, when they asked him what service he required, he said "the normal one" they said, "do you mean a basic service", and he said "I'll just have whatever everyone else is having" so perhaps they're not dealing with the best bunch down that way. :D:D Classic!

Best (or worst) I ever heard was some guy on East Midlands frequency who when asked to give his position said 'Overhead Langar' to which East Mids came back immediately with 'Langar is live and dropping right now suggest you get out of the overhead ASAP.'

I sometimes wonder, as I do with drivers, how some folk managed to get a license.

[BillieBob]

Hold on a minute. Capital punishment for airspace infringements seems a tad harsh.True, but it would stop repeat offending.