View Full Version : Ukraine Crisis 2014
Putin and Maskirovka* - whilst everyone is ooohing and aaahing over Blackjacks bombing Syria, keep an eye on Ukraine. This could be a Spetnaz lead casus bellum to justify the seizure of a land corridor from Russia to Crimea
*https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_deception
State of emergency declared in Crimea after activists 'blow up' electricity pylons - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/12010289/Crimea-plunged-into-darkness.html)
A state of emergency has been declared in Crimea after pylons carrying electricity from Ukraine were blown up cutting off power to almost two million people, media and the Russian government said on Sunday.
The Russian Energy Ministry didn't say what had caused the outages, but Russian media reported that two pylons in the Kherson region of Ukraine north of Crimea had been blown up by Ukrainian nationalists. The attack, if by Ukrainian nationalists opposed to Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine last year, is likely to further increase tensions between Russia and Ukraine.
Russia's Energy Ministry said in a statement that two power lines bringing power from Ukraine to Crimea had been affected, as a result of which 1,896,000 people had been left without power. The ministry said that a state of emergency had been declared in Crimea. It also said that emergency supplies had been turned on for critical needs and 13 mobile gas turbine generators were being prepared.
Ilya Kiva, a senior officer in the Ukrainian police who was at the scene, also said on his Facebook page that the pylons had been blown up, without giving further details.
On Saturday, the pylons were the scene of violent clashes between activists from the Right Sector nationalist movement and paramilitary police, Ukrainian media reported. The pylons had already been damaged by the activists on Friday before they were blown up on Saturday night, according to these reports.
"Crimea is completely cut off," Viktor Plakida, the director of Crimea Energy, told Russia's Tass news agency.........
Hangarshuffle
25th Nov 2015, 17:49
Ukraine closes its airspace to Russia as gas supply dispute erupts | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/25/ukraine-closes-its-airspace-to-russia-in-latest-escalation)
Can they enforce this flight ban? Back to an energy crisis again then?
A workmate who happens to live in the Ukraine described the difficulty he faced last winter, securing heat and energy for his 4 child family plus wife.
The local govt. effectively turned off his electric and concentrated the power supplies to urban areas. Because they could. Basically he was on his own, as he lives in a rural area.No electric was available, for days at a time. " I nearly could have seen them killed by the cold">
Using the little tots, one of them a little boy of 3, he and the family dug themselves out of the 4 deep extensive snow drifts and he forced his way by car through to the in-laws and relative sanctuary.
This year he put in a wind turbine, a oil powered generator+tank and some solar panels... he's a clever lad, an electrical engineer and well capable of rapid improvisation.
Life in the Ukraine for millions of ordinary folk.
Good job we've got loads of power supply surplus in England for countering Generals January and February hmmmm?
Putin restarting his second front.....
Truce Unravels as Fighting Picks Up in Ukraine (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/22/world/europe/fighting-in-ukraine-picks-up-sharply.html?r=0&_r=0)
A_Van
22nd Feb 2016, 13:44
ORAC,
NYT correspondent talking to a Ukraine batallion commander is as truly as a Russian media correspondent talking to an Assad army officer in Suria. Totally biased.
Better look at official reports of the OSCE, they issue them on a regular basis. Teethless OSCE is also pro current Ukrainian regime and biased accordingly, but at least their monitoring mission is permanently deployed in the area and is visiting every now and then both conflicting Ukrainian sides.
Here is their latest report as of Feb. 20:
Latest from OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine, based on information received as of 19:30hrs, 19 February 2016 | OSCE (http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/223716)
In fact, uncontrolled (or poorly controlled) armed gangs on both sides shooting at each other.....
Did you read it Van, and what the OSCE deputy chief of mission said?.....
"Alexander Hug, the deputy chief of the monitoring mission in eastern Ukraine for the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, told journalists on Friday that observers last week saw 88 tanks on the pro-Russian side of the line. He did not specify their origin, and Russia has denied sending weapons to help the rebels.
“They just sit there, armed and battle-ready, within easy reach of the contact line,” Mr. Hug said of the tanks."
A_Van
22nd Feb 2016, 15:35
Yes, the key words are "They just sit there...". Similarly, another 88, or 188, or 288 tanks are in the same status (waiting mode, ready to quickly advance to the front line and open fire) on the governmental side. The same OSCE mission often reports that heavy weapons of the governmental forces disappeared from the locations they were supposed to be. No surprise, both sides do not trust each other and do not strictly follow fragile agreements like so-called "Minsk-2".
Thanks God, they all (tanks) are not shooting now. Only machine guns and light artillery sporadically "talk".
I find it stupid to say/write twice a sentence "pro-Russian", "Russian support" , etc. with regard to separatists. To be consistent, the other side should always be "marked" as "NATO backed" or "US controlled", but what's the use of escalating the tension? They all are (poor) Ukrainian citizens, involved in a civil war.
All possible means should be looked for and used to calm down the situation in that region.
NutLoose
22nd Feb 2016, 17:48
The poor Ukrainian citizens as you put it did not invite Russia in to occupy their country and kill their populace, the only way it will ever get resolved is for Putin to pack up his little tanks, return the assets he looted and return back home from whence they came.
Backinblack
23rd Feb 2016, 10:51
On the territory inhabited by Ukrainians, there is no war. War is only in the Donbass.
I get the uneasy feeling that between the Ukraine, Syria (http://www.legitgov.org/Ex-CIA-Director-Who-Endorsed-Clinton-Calls-Killing-Iranians-and-Russians-Syria) and the latest activity in the South China Seas (http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/493498-south-china-sea-s-gathering-storm-5.html#post9469018), that Russia and China are going to test the resolve of the USA in the sunup to the November election.
We live in very dangerous times......
Russian Troop Buildup Along Ukraine Border Raises War Fears (http://www.voanews.com/content/russia-troop-buildup-ukraine-border-raises-war-fears/3450445.html)
Russia Accuses Ukraine Of 'Terrorist' Attack In Crimea (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/08/11/489586982/russia-accuses-ukraine-of-terrorist-attack-in-crimea)
Fears Mount of Full-scale Ukraine-Russia Clash (http://www.voanews.com/content/fears-mount-ukraine-russia-clash/3458968.html)
Poroshenko Puts Troops In Eastern Ukraine On Highest Alert (http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-poroshenko-puts-troops-on-high-alert/27914919.html)
SASless
11th Aug 2016, 12:47
Ah by chance....is Britain the "Token" military in this affair?
A_Van
11th Aug 2016, 14:33
ORAC,
Your feeling is wrong, you may relax and feel more easy.
Especially the link between events in Ukraine and S. Chinese sea is obviously beyond any reasonable conspirology.
Who cares about the US elections here? Both candidates are bad in general and very bad for Russia.
China cares even less. No matter who is (will be) in the White House, they are concentrating so much mil. power in the S. Chinese sea, so that, IMHO, none of a US fleet could compete with them (to say nothing that US has nothing to do in their backyard). I was traveling not so long ago along/around the Hainan island (on vacation) and was surprised, though obviously a tourist can only see "a small top of an iceberg".
Really Van? I'd go chat with your boss, someone has crossed wires - Sputnik is a mouthpiece for the Russian government. See my post on the South China Seas thread.....
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/493498-south-china-seas-gathering-storm-5.html#post9473988
A_Van
15th Aug 2016, 06:28
ORAC, actually, this thread about the Ukrainian crisis.
And switching from a subject to personality is a bad practice.
Returning the ball, I suggest you go chat to your boss, I do not have one, sorry. But I have my own brains to filter the data no matter where they come from.
It always amazes me how often people talk about subjects they never touched in reality or closely dealt with. Have you ever been to Russia, Ukraine, Crimea, Donbass? I did, and I do have friends and relatives on both Russian and Ukrainian sides. The whole problem in Ukraine cannot be painted in black and white (by any side). It's a civil war in the Eastern Ukraine, and all sides are responsible for that (including Russia supporting separatists and the West supporting ultra-nationalists that took power after the coup).
Here it comes.
Ukraine reports nearly 100 attacks on Ukrainian army positions in Donbas in past 24 hours (http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/364369.html)
A_Van
18th Aug 2016, 17:43
And so what? This is an official Ukrainian press, controlled by the government...
The other (separatist) side publishes similar posts about hundreds high-caliber shots on Donbass living quarters, women and children wounded, houses destroyed, etc.....
Somebody should give an unbiased picture, e.g. those so-called EU "peacekeepers" or "monitoring mission", but i) they are biased, ii) they are toothless, iii) when they report that Kiev breaks some agreements, nobody publishes that.
Sorry for repeating on MHO: both sides are to be blamed and condamned. This is a civil war that should be stopped ASAP. Since German and French "mediators" proved to be unable to do anything, perhaps the US should openly come into scene if they really like to end this idiotism?
Lonewolf_50
18th Aug 2016, 20:17
Sorry for repeating on MHO: both sides are to be blamed and condamned. This is a civil war that should be stopped ASAP. Since German and French "mediators" proved to be unable to do anything, perhaps the US should openly come into scene if they really like to end this idiotism? Don't hold your breath. Current administration doesn't seem to have Ukraine very high on the priority list.
Washington Post: The Price of Powerlessness (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-price-of-powerlessness/2016/08/18/f61d2c34-6575-11e6-96c0-37533479f3f5_story.html?utm_term=.2abf1c9c1e8c)
Russian Military Forces Staging Near Ukraine (http://freebeacon.com/national-security/russian-military-forces-staging-near-ukraine/)
The Pentagon has identified eight staging areas in Russia where large numbers of military forces appear to be preparing for incursions into Ukraine, according to U.S. defense officials.
As many as 40,000 Russian troops, including tanks, armored vehicles, and air force units, are now arrayed along Ukraine’s eastern border with Russia. Additionally, large numbers of Russian military forces will conduct exercises in the coming days that Pentagon officials say could be used as cover for an attack on Ukraine.
“Russian units will likely practice reinforcing the [Crimean] peninsula through such activities as amphibious landings and air defense exercises, and this may involve the change out of equipment and long convoys of military vehicles,” one defense official said.
The military exercises are an ominous sign. Similar large-scale Russian exercises were conducted near Ukraine a month before Moscow carried out the covert military operation to take over the strategic Black Sea peninsula in March 2014..........
Heathrow Harry
19th Aug 2016, 08:35
Military action in Europe in August/September has a longggg history - the ground has dried out over summer, the crops are in, you have 3-4 months before it gets seriously cold
Plus a lot of the politicians are on holiday and so slow to react
Punitive Medicine? Crimean Tatars Shaken By Leader's Confinement To Mental Asylum (http://www.rferl.mobi/a/crimea-umerov-psychiatric-treatment-outcry-human-rights-russia-ukraine/27943461.html)
When a court in Russian-annexed Crimea ordered activist Ilmi Umerov to a psychiatric clinic for a month of assessment tests, the decision sent shock waves through the peninsula's indigenous ethnic Tatar minority.
For two and a half decades, authorities in Crimea have refrained from the routine Soviet-era practice of declaring dissidents mentally ill, condemning them to life in an insane asylum. But now, Umerov's sentencing and subsequent confinement to a psychiatric clinic in Simferopol suggests a return to the practice.
Crimean prosecutors first charged Umerov, the former deputy chairman of the Crimean Tatars' self-governing body -- the Mejlis -- with separatism in May after he made public statements opposing Moscow's seizure of the peninsula from Ukraine. Then, on August 11, while he was under home detention during his trial, a court ordered Umerov to undergo psychiatric testing. A week later, he was forcibly committed to Simferopol's Psychiatric Hospital No. 1 for a 28-day period.
The forced admission to the clinic stunned Umerov's colleagues and supporters, who say the 59-year-old community leader is anything but mentally unbalanced. "I have known him for 30 years, I know him well," Abdure**** Dzhepparov, coordinator of the Crimean Contact Group on Human Rights, told RFE/RL on August 22. "I may not be an expert psychiatrist, but on the eve of his removal to the psychiatric clinic, I know that he was without a doubt in full mental health."
Umerov's sudden dispatch to a mental institution, where for the first several days he was denied visitors or the use of a telephone, reminded many of the dark days when dissidents in the Soviet Union simply disappeared into asylums, never to be seen or heard from again. "This is the first case in [post-Soviet] Crimea where they have placed a normal person in a psychiatric hospital," said Dzhepparov. "If you do not fight against it now, and try to change it, there could be second, third, and fourth cases...until it becomes a conveyor belt."...........
Well this isn't going to improve relations with Russia......
Ukraine mulls referendum on NATO membership (http://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-mulls-referendum-on-nato-membership/)
Ukrainian President Petro Poroschenko plans to put NATO membership to a referendum after polls showed 54 percent of the country favored joining the alliance, German media reported Thursday.
“Four years ago, only 16 percent [of the Ukrainian people] favored Ukraine’s entry into NATO. Now it’s 54 percent,” Funke Mediengruppe quoted Poroshenko as saying in an interview. “As president, I am guided by the views of my people, and I will hold a referendum on the issue of NATO membership.” Poroschenko said he would “do all I can” to achieve NATO membership if people voted in favor.......
NATO calls on Russia to stop violence in Ukraine (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/02/nato-calls-russia-stop-violence-ukraine-170202054257166.html)
Russian Defense Ministry summons Ukrainian attaché over ‘dangerous’ warplane flight (https://www.rt.com/news/375983-russia-ukraine-warplane-incident/)
racedo
2nd Feb 2017, 17:50
Ukraine: Avdiivka, the front line of Europe's 'forgotten war' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38818543)
Also there are pictures on BBC of Ukrainian Tanks next to OSCE vehicles while Kiev saying none are there.
Yes, and those tanks are specially located between apartment buildings in living quarters. Clearly, the Ukrainian army attempted an offensive operation to test the reaction from the new US administration. And when the offensive has not yielded the results they hoped for (the forces were stopped by the separatists) they started crying about the losses (while the whole multi-million city of Donetsk was left without water and heating for a few days in cold winter).
melmothtw
3rd Feb 2017, 07:56
Clearly, the Ukrainian army attempted an offensive operation...
Many would suggest that an operation in your own country against separatist elements backed by a hostile foreign power is actually a 'defensive' operation.
racedo
3rd Feb 2017, 11:45
Many would suggest that an operation in your own country against separatist elements backed by a hostile foreign power is actually a 'defensive' operation.
You mean like in Syria.
melmothtw
3rd Feb 2017, 12:10
Many would suggest that an operation in your own country against separatist elements backed by a hostile foreign power is actually a 'defensive' operation. You mean like in Syria.
Until Poroshenko starts barrel/carpet bombing and gassing his own people, nothing like in Syria.
melmothtw,
Just from the beginning of the conflict and thru these days the Ukrainian army is often using BM-21 "Grad" (122 mm multiple rocket launcher) against living quarters. This artillery system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BM-21_Grad
was developed in SU back in 60's against millions of Chinese who were a real threat in Far East at that time. Quite comparable to a massive bomber attack.
Even more, "Tochka" and "Tochka-U" ballistic missiles (9М79М and 9М79-1, or SS-21 as per NATO classification) were used there in 2014 and 2015. Again, against masses of (their own civil) population in urban areas.
melmothtw
3rd Feb 2017, 13:04
With respect A_Van, given Russia's policy of disinformation in Crimea/Ukraine ( Russia?s top 100 lies about Ukraine (http://www.stopfake.org/en/russia-s-top-100-lies-about-ukraine/) ) and knowing nothing about you other than you say you hail from Moscow, I will take anything you have to say on the subject with a large dose of salt. No offence intended.
racedo
3rd Feb 2017, 14:43
Until Poroshenko starts barrel/carpet bombing and gassing his own people, nothing like in Syria.
Kiev attacked the people in his own country who refused Kiev rule, not the other way round.
As for mass bombing of people think guess using grad rockets against Civilian areas is ok as long as you support those doing it.
melmothtw
3rd Feb 2017, 19:15
Kiev attacked the people in his own country who refused Kiev rule, not the other way round.
As for mass bombing of people think guess using grad rockets against Civilian areas is ok as long as you support those doing it.
No doubt this is true in your Alt-Fact universe Racedo, just as the Georgian government clearly attacked its own people in Ossetia and Abkhazia also. As for those us not following the post-truth agenda, the timeline as to who has been attacking who in that part of the world, and for what reason, is quite clear.
And the Russian government totally obliterated the cities of Chechnya - but that's OK, that's internal and in their view nothing to do with the world.
In the meantime they invade Ukraine because of what they do and annex Crimea. Then eastern Ukraine is flooded by "men in black" - hint, theyre not hunting aliens and are serving Russian troops, supported by massed Russian tank and artillery - and lets perhaps mention shooting down passing airlines.
There is only one aggressor here - and it's name is Putin.
Take your slimy Russian propaganda elsewhere.
Stupidbutsaveable
4th Feb 2017, 01:47
No doubt this is true in your Alt-Fact universe Racedo, just as the Georgian government clearly attacked its own people in Ossetia and Abkhazia also. As for those us not following the post-truth agenda, the timeline as to who has been attacking who in that part of the world, and for what reason, is quite clear.
Is it clear; really? Far from it in my book. Anything presented that does not fit your false model gets palmed off. Wtf is a post-truth agenda anyway?
Of course Putin has an agenda, it's on his doorstep. Did anyone seriously not expect Russia to secure Crimea?
I'm not sure whether it was EU expansionist incompetence or something more sinister but we seem to be backing a pretty unsavoury bunch. Scratch the surface just a little and the far right are there. Once again, I believe we think we are smarter than we actually are and are royally xxxxxxx up by not truly understanding the psyche of the people.
To give an idea where I'm coming from; my wife is from Horlivka and up until this whole sad saga I generally believed what our venerable institutions told us. She has challenged me to open my eyes, and with access to some of the local media and social media (friends) I am seeing the world through a different lens, and it's not pretty.
For example, I'm sure most of us hold the OSCE in some regard. Performing a difficult task with their reports often, it appears to me at least, used and abused for political capital. Look at them from the other side of the fence. They become just another western military organisation with,at best, no credibility and at worst they are viewed with complete distrust. When they turn up in a neighbourhood it goes quiet. As soon as they depart it gets noisy, means as suggested by the posters above. And yes, it is happening. Also, have a look at the outcome following their report into the Odessa massacre. I'm sure there are representations and 'mentoring' going on in the background, etc,etc. But to average Ivan steel worker/miner in Dombass it is truly disgusting appeasement and a tacit green light to bad people.
Please don't misunderstand me, I have utmost respect for any journalist putting themselves in harms way seeking the truth. I just don't think we get it anymore and for certain our 'impartial' media are doing a piss-poor job in telling both sides of the story.
Official statistics reports that 5+ percent of the Ukrainian population is staying/working in Russia. Only in 2015, about 1 mln Ukrainians arrived here seeking for work and better/safer life. And only a minor part of them is from Donbass (Crimea is totally excluded from this statistics). If there was a war between Russia and Ukraine, do you think they would do it? Can you imagine French of British people massively and volunteerly going to Germany in 1940?
There was mentioning of "top Russian lies about Ukraine" some posts above. No doubt, Russian mainstrean media often lies, I agree. But the same about the western media and similar "collections of lies" do exist addressing opposite direction. Truth is indeed difficult to find and in the civil war all sides are both to be blamed and both have "their own truth".
Mentioning Russian troops in Ukraine is so much beyond average russophobia that even official Kiev is not using it that often. If there were regular troops there, they would be in Kiev in 2 days and you would have crowds of current Ukrainian establishment members knocking your British doors crying for asylum. Donbass is a large area that inherited a hell amount of weapons and military industry. No doubt, there are foreign advisors on both sides. Like in Syria where many western advisors help folks like an-Nusra (read Al-Qaeda).
One more point: it always amazes me when people who never witnessed anything consider themselves as experts (I mean not forum members, but media and journalists). EU and US people write articles and books about Russia-Ukraine and likes trying to "teach the locals". Imagine that I would start talking about issues like "Britain vs Northern Ireland" or "England vs Scotland" insisting that UK people "do not know all the truth". It would be correct "to offer me some hard erotic treatment".
In general, I find this discussion quite fruitless.
peter we
4th Feb 2017, 07:39
Nobody questions the fact that the Russians invaded Ukraine, because its laughable to suggest they didn't. Even Putin has spoke in detail on the Russian military operation to seize Crimea.
If there were regular troops there, they would be in Kiev in 2 days
The fact that the Russian army is incapable of defeating Ukraine's small, poorly equipped army is not something to are going to believe if you live in Putin's alternate universe.
Donbass is a large area that inherited a hell amount of weapons and military industry. No doubt, there are foreign advisors on both sides.
Quite a lot of just "advisers" from Russia. Some of them from Russian units messed up and compromised themselves on social media. If they have enough weapons and equipment then why did they need to be supplied over the border from Russia?
See for example the links in regards to the 6th Tank Brigade. Yes, no doubt the deniers will claim that the personnel just volunteered during their leave to go and fight in Ukraine. Harder to explain the tanks that those personnel were operating. The media that they took compromised themselves in that respect. They failed to sanitize their tanks of some unique tactical markings before deploying.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2016/08/31/russias-war-ukraine-medals-treacherous-numbers/
https://www.bellingcat.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/RussiasWarinUkraine_TheMedals_and_TreacherousNumbers-4.pdf
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/11/13/136-brigade-in-donbass/
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/09/22/russias-6th-tank-brigade/
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/09/29/russias-6th-tank-brigade-pt-2/
https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/case-studies/2015/05/29/confirming-the-location-of-the-same-msta-s-in-russia-and-ukraine/
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/publications/reports/hiding-in-plain-sight-putin-s-war-in-ukraine-and-boris-nemtsov-s-putin-war
https://www.bellingcat.com/resources/case-studies/2015/05/28/russias-pantsir-s1s-geolocated-in-ukraine/
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/05/26/mamai-geolocation/
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/05/22/three-graves/
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2015/03/11/vreditel-sobaka/
Polish foreign minister: Russia will ?very likely? annex Donbass ? POLITICO (http://www.politico.eu/article/polish-foreign-minister-russia-will-very-likely-annex-donbass/#superComments)
There is a “great probability” that Moscow will take over the Donbass region in eastern Ukraine, Poland’s Foreign Minister Witold Waszczykowski said Wednesday during a visit to Kyiv, Radio Poland reported.
Waszczykowski warned Russia is already issuing identity cards and passports, seizing Ukrainian property and cutting the eastern region off from the rest of the country.
The Polish foreign minister said the situation in Donbass is getting “ever more difficult” as Moscow doesn’t respect the Minsk peace deal signed in 2014. “It’s very dangerous,” he said.......
NutLoose
2nd Mar 2017, 14:10
And with the turkey in the White House, one does not hold out much hope for them, I do wonder if Putin is using it as an excuse to test his adversary.
Ukraine blocks road and rail links with breakaway regions ? POLITICO (http://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-blocks-road-and-rail-links-with-breakaway-regions-eastern-ukraine-economic-war/)
Moscow moves to absorb rebel Georgian region's military | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-georgia-army-idUSKBN16L1XQ)
A_Van
16th Mar 2017, 10:07
ORAC, 1-1 this time, bravo. Fake news from Politico and nearly a true one from Reuters.
As for Ukraine, Politico has put things upside down. First, it was the blockade of all transportation routes and traffic by the "western" part and, as the result of it, the eastern (rebel) part had to implement a sort of external management to the coal mining plants. Ownership still remains with the Ukrainian oligarphs. The problem is that if the coal is not transported (to the Ukrainian power plants which are the only consumers), hundreds thousands of people in Donbass become unemployed. The irony is that the Ukrainian government had to start importing coal directly from Russia, and at higher costs. Also, it was not the Ukrainian government who started the blockade. There were/are groups of armed ultra-nationalists (they called themselves self-organized battalions) who started it, and the Kiev government is afraid of them. Poor Ukraine, idiotism rules there new...
As for north Ossetia, I have no idea why this stupid decision was made. There is no reason for that now...
And finally, I wonder why the military aviation thread is being "garbaged" by such topics? There is no war in the air in this region. And I assume there are many special forums for russophobes.
Mil-26Man
16th Mar 2017, 11:18
There is no war in the air in this region.
How soon we forget...
MH17 shot down by rebels with missile from Russia, say investigators | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mh17-russia-ukraine-rebels-responsible-downing-malaysia-airlines-plane-prosecution-charges-vladimir-a7334246.html)
While the conflict in the Ukraine is largely forgotten, Russia is at it again in Syria threatening to shoot down Western fighter jets. Once again Russia is on the wrong side of a conflict. I am very sorry for the Russian people. Hopefully Putin will soon be history.
Lonewolf_50
22nd Jun 2017, 16:54
How soon we forget...
MH17 shot down by rebels with missile from Russia, say investigators | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mh17-russia-ukraine-rebels-responsible-downing-malaysia-airlines-plane-prosecution-charges-vladimir-a7334246.html)
One screw up does not a war make. (For example, USS Stark struck by Iraqi Exocets ... no war).
West Coast
22nd Jun 2017, 17:07
One screw up a war can make as well.
Doesn't take much to start a war, this one lasted 9 years......
The War of Jenkin's Ear (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Jenkins%27_Ear)
A_Van
22nd Jun 2017, 18:26
How soon we forget...
MH17 shot down by rebels with missile from Russia, say investigators | The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/mh17-russia-ukraine-rebels-responsible-downing-malaysia-airlines-plane-prosecution-charges-vladimir-a7334246.html)
A clear example of generating fake news on the spot. In the article as per the URL mentioned it is said that the missile was (presumably) launched from the area controlled by the (Ukrainian) rebels. But this is still Ukraine and the rebels are Ukrainians.
Following this logic one may say that when Syrian rebels are shooting at the Assad's army these are Americans or British, etc. shooting (from their territory). Nonsense, isn't it?
Van,
Let's not go through this again. There are photos of the Russian Army SAM unit entering Ukraine and then quickly exiting after the misidentification and engagement happened. The identities of the firing unit and their unit have been identified to the satisfaction of everyone outside Russia - which continues to this day to try and generate false news and confusion.
If the Dutch and the Malaysians were at war that might be acceptable, as it is not it is contemptible. The USN screwed up over IAF655 but eventually admitted responsibility for a tragic mistake and paid compensation - the Kremlin to this day refuses to admit the facts and denies the families both closure and compensation.
And you wonder why so many still so hate and fear both the Russians and the armed forces in Eastern Europe, the Baltics and Scandinavia?
A_Van
23rd Jun 2017, 06:24
Van,
Let's not go through this again. There are photos of the Russian Army SAM unit entering Ukraine and then quickly exiting after the misidentification and engagement happened. The identities of the firing unit and their unit have been identified to the satisfaction of everyone outside Russia - which continues to this day to try and generate false news and confusion.
Are you serious? All this stuff is taken from social networks (SN). First, provocators like "billingcats" and likes publish some fake news with fake evidences in various SN and then others use them as references and "confirmed" evidences.
But this is an informational war with no rules and all those dirty journalists do not surprise me. Western press do not publish evidences that circulate in Russia and vice versa.
What negatively surprised me, was the technical report from TNO and NLR, which I studied attentively. Experts were using some M&S (modeling and simulation) frameworks with very little and fragmentary input data and did not hesitate to make conclusions. Moreover, the data offered by the BuK manufacturers were rejected.
Imagine a Boeing or Airbus aircraft crashes somewhere in a remote "3rd world" location and local authorities say: "We can reconstruct the work of the aircraft systems ourselves and determine the cause, we do not need aircraft manufacturer data and support because they are dumbs".
I am sure we will not convince each, though. Thus, I am sorry for not having time for this discussion.
Perhaps some new data will pop out sooner or later.
Heathrow Harry
23rd Jun 2017, 06:35
Van - this is one you can't win.........................
Fortunately the EU just prolonged the sanctions against Russia for their past involvement in the conflict and continued failure to do their part in ending it. For as far as MH17 is concerned it is still awfully quiet but eventually Russia will be held responsible and pay for their responsibility in downing it!
Just This Once...
24th Jun 2017, 06:30
Van, don't forget that quite a few on this sub-forum have access to source level information on this SAM firing. I can categorically state that this was a system under Russian control.
What surprises me is the willingness of the Russian population to accept a Russian government distortion in that the Ukrainian forces, who did not face an air threat and where aircraft were friendly forces, would suddenly decide to deploy, target and fire a missile. Such logic belongs in the same bin as Russian soldiers fighting as formed units 'on holiday' and 'little green men'.
peter we
24th Jun 2017, 12:50
What surprises me is the willingness of the Russian population to accept a Russian government distortion .
People believe what they want to be true, especially in a country with no history of free thinking and lots of history of destroying those who exhibit independent thought.
MH17 suspects will be prosecuted in the Hague (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/world/mh17-suspects-will-be-prosecuted-in-the-hague-92gcvbgg2)
The people suspected of shooting down a Malaysia Airlines jet in eastern Ukraine three years ago will be prosecuted in the Hague under Dutch law. The decision was made by Australia, Belgium, Malaysia, Ukraine and the Netherlands after Russia vetoed proposals to set up an international tribunal at the UN.
Although no suspects have been charged yet, the joint investigation claims to have “extensive” evidence on about 100 people likely to include Russian military personnel as well as Ukrainian separatist rebels. ,So far only two Russian-speaking men, named, but not verified, as Andrey Ivanovich, also known as “Orion”, and Nikolay Fiodorovich, using the pseudonym “Delfin”, have been identified as possible suspects.
Flight MH17 was shot down on July 17, 2014, killing all 283 passengers on board and 15 crew over eastern Ukraine. Among the passengers were 38 Australians, 43 Malaysians, 193 Dutch, and 10 Britons. A Dutch-led investigation concluded that the plane was shot down by a Buk missile system that had been transported from Russia to Ukraine on the day of the crash. Trial proceedings will probably be held in absentia because of Russia’s opposition to bringing suspects to justice for the killings.
The five countries working together in the investigation of the shooting down of the aircraft chose the Netherlands both because of the number of Dutch people who died in the crash but also because of the country’s international reputation as judicial arbitrators. “With this decision we are taking a next step on the way to uncover the truth, the prosecution of suspects and satisfaction for the bereaved,” Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister, said. “That remains the highest priority for the Dutch government.”.....
Malcolm Turnbull, the Australian prime minister, said he had full confidence in the Dutch legal system and urged other states to co-operate with the investigation. “While we cannot take away the grief of those who lost their loved ones because of this atrocious act, we are committed to holding the perpetrators to account and achieving justice for all the victims,” he said.
The Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile system used to shoot down MH17 has been linked to Russia’s 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade, which was active in the region in 2014. At that time the Russian military was supporting armed rebels in a wider conflict with Ukraine after Moscow’s annexation of Crimea that year.
Tjibbe Joustra, who led the investigation, has suggested that any trial would have to be held in absentia because Russia will not co-operate on extraditing suspects from its territory. “I don’t see anybody going to jail quickly, but I think the truth will come out,” he told the Volkskrant newspaper.
racedo
5th Jul 2017, 22:59
. “I don’t see anybody going to jail quickly, but I think the truth will come out,” he told the Volkskrant newspaper.
You mean like Lokerbie ?
Fully expect nothing to ever happen on either.
Munich Security Forum: Graham to Russia on Ukraine: 'You’re going to get what you deserve' (https://www.defensenews.com/smr/munich-security-forum/2018/02/17/graham-to-russia-on-ukraine-youre-going-to-get-what-you-deserve/)
MUNICH — Defense leaders from Europe and the United States expressed optimism about the prospect of Ukraine becoming a NATO member, with Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina arguing that relations with Moscow may be beyond salvageable anyway.
Ukraine president Petro Poroschenko raged against Russia during a speech at the Munich Security Conference, accusing its neighbor to the east of waging what he described as a hybrid war, and asking NATO allies to stand with the embattled country against an increasingly threatening adversary. “My message to you is that it is in our joint interest to resist Russians attempt to break our unity and ruin our democracy throughout Europe or throughout the world…. to prove Europe is a continent of stability, peace and cooperation,” Poroschenko said. “Dear friends, these values are our greatest assets against the Russian threat.”
Interestingly, the plea came after a dialogue among global defense leaders at the conference about whether Ukraine might ever become a NATO member. That prospect of Ukraine acceptance into NATO has been something of a quagmire for allies — reasonable on its face, but also bringing with it political ramifications that could ultimately erupt in a political disaster if not managed with great care.
Ten years ago the post Soviet state was denied consideration for membership at the Bucharest Summit, in part due to fear of heightening tensions with Moscow. But a lot can change in a decade, said Rose Gottemoeller, NATO deputy secretary general. She pointed to the alliance’s “open door policy,” while also acknowledging that Ukraine has not, as a matter of policy, sought NATO membership as of yet. (The Ukrainian parliament did vote in 2017 to restore NATO membership as the country’s strategic foreign policy objective, however.)
Sen. Graham, R-S.C., was far more candid, not only in his support of Ukraine, but in his disgust with Russia for aggressive tactics in Europe and election tampering in the United States. “To our friends in the Ukraine, I want it to be your decision [to join NATO] not Russia’s decision,” Graham said. It’s worth NATO allies considering that “the Ukrainians gave up a nuclear weapons arsenal, with the understanding that ‘if I do this I’m good to go.’ We signed up and everybody else did. And our friends in Russia step all over that.
“The rule of law means nothing to Russia,” Graham continued. “Does it mean anything to us? I’d be glad to have a better relationship with Russia but it’s difficult. I used to worry about antagonizing Russia. I won’t worry about that anymore. You’re going to get what you deserve if you keep this up. And to our friends in Georgia and Ukraine, be patient. Hopefully the rest of us will get a backbone and push back against aggression that I feel is unwarranted.”
Advocacy is in fact critical to NATO membership, argued Estonia Defence Minister Jüri Luik. He credited President George W. Bush and his cordial relationship with Russia President Vladimir Putin as a major factor in Estonia becoming a NATO member in 2004. “I believe Ukraine will be in NATO, Luik said. “I cannot predict the time, but I’ve always said to my Ukrainian and Georgian colleagues, be patient, work for it, be ready. When we joined, President Putin said only one thing: ‘Well we don’t like it but we certainly won’t start a war [over] it.’ It was a windmill.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-navy-russia-ship-fire-attack-crimea-artillery-war-kerch-strait-a8651321.html?amp
Crimea: Three Ukraine navy boats captured by Russian special forces following firefight, force claims
Ukraine (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/Ukraine)‘s navy has claimed Russia (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/Russia) opened fire on some of its ships in the Black Sea, hitting two vessels and wounding two crew members.
The navy said in a statement on its Facebook page that two of its small armoured artillery ships, the Berdyansk and the Nikopol, were damaged by Russian fire.
The two gunboats were then seized by Russian special forces along with a tug named the Yani Kapu, the navy added in a later statement.
The Independent has contacted Russia’s Federal Security Service, known as the FSB, for comment
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/968x726/berdyansk_fac5b178c8e6e0ce2124d1b408eadec7d3c673cd.jpg
Wokkafans
25th Nov 2018, 19:13
Things are escalating quickly:
https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/status/1066784519699800070
"BREAKING: Crimea Tensions: Ukrainian Air Force now alerted to full combat readiness. All tactical/attack assets are required to be airborne within 15-30 minutes, once and if called upon"
"Ukrainian military units in Odesa region on "battle alert," also Ukrainian Navy and Air Force units on "full alert," according to Ukrainian agencies. Ukrainian President Poroshenko is scheduled to meet at 10 pm local time (1 min from now) w/his military cabinet"
"Russia's state TV claims that Ukraine and unnamed powers in Washington "staged a provocation" near the Kerch Strait "to disrupt the upcoming meeting between Putin and Trump" at the G20 in Argentina"
"Ukraine calls for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council following Crimea tensions."
Lonewolf_50
25th Nov 2018, 20:02
Pretty fresh news. Wonder if the next shoe drops.
Wokkafans
25th Nov 2018, 21:50
Where next - let's hope sanity prevails on both sides.
https://twitter.com/BreakingNLive/status/1066825234278490112
Tensions Between Ukraine And Russia Boil Over In Sea Of Azov As Chances For War Escalate (Updated) - The Drive (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/25101/tensions-between-ukraine-and-russia-boil-over-in-sea-of-azov-as-chances-for-war-escalate)
Above The Clouds
26th Nov 2018, 10:41
There will be an announcement today around 14.00z from the Ukrainian government if they have decided to implement martial law, interesting times ahead I think.
NutLoose
26th Nov 2018, 16:23
Well if it is correct, the soundtrack does not leave any doubt over intentions
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/46344493/footage-shows-russian-ship-crashing-into-ukrainian-tug-off-the-crimean-peninsula
MPN11
26th Nov 2018, 16:30
Bloody Putin just can’t resist causing more trouble.
And who will rein him in? UN Security Council (veto)? Trump (beyond his understanding)? EU (too busy with brexit)?
Lonewolf_50
26th Nov 2018, 16:56
And who will rein him in? Nobody. I doubt that this was a serendipitous happening.
MPN11
26th Nov 2018, 18:23
Nobody. I doubt that this was a serendipitous happening.
Indeed, part of a strategy of strangling Ukraine before welcoming it to the Russian Federation of subordinate States.
KiloB
26th Nov 2018, 18:34
I think it would be safe to expect that Putin’s long-term plan is to restore the USSR, one domino at a time.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ukraine-seizes-russian-tanker-in-row-over-naval-ships-held-by-putin-rknzngsps
Ukraine seizes Russian tanker Nika Spirit in row over naval ships held by Putin
Ukrainian forces have seized a Russian oil tanker close to the Black Sea in an incident condemned by Moscow as “piracy” and certain to strain tense relations further.
The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) said that it had impounded the Russian ship in the port of Izmail in the Odessa region as evidence. It alleged that the ship had taken part in capturing three Ukrainian vessels and their 24 crew in November.
The SBU said the tanker Nika Spirit had been identified by its maritime registration number as the former Neyma, which took part in blocking the Kerch Strait to help to seize the Ukrainian naval ships and their crews last year (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-seizes-ukrainian-gunboats-and-tug-in-black-sea-after-claims-kremlin-fired-on-ships-l7xhpdscr). The incident is likely to be an early test for the relationship between President Zelensky of Ukraine and President Putin. Mr Zelensky was elected in April and on Sunday his party swept parliamentary elections, giving him the majority needed to form a new government and make other appointments.
Russian officials said the ten crew of the tanker had been released and would travel by bus to Moldova, before flying to Moscow.
Leonid Slutsky, the head of the foreign affairs committee in Russia’s lower house of parliament, called the seizure of the ship “state-sponsored piracy” and an attempt to influence the prosecution of the arrested Ukrainian sailors, who are facing trial for allegedly crossing Russia’s border illegally.
Alert 5 » U.S. officials are “freaking out” over the sale of Motor Sich to China - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2019/08/29/u-s-officials-are-freaking-out-over-the-sale-of-motor-sich-to-china/)
U.S. officials are “freaking out” over the sale of Motor Sich to China
racedo
29th Aug 2019, 18:27
Alert 5 » U.S. officials are “freaking out” over the sale of Motor Sich to China - Military Aviation News (http://alert5.com/2019/08/29/u-s-officials-are-freaking-out-over-the-sale-of-motor-sich-to-china/)
U.S. officials are “freaking out” over the sale of Motor Sich to China
Johnny Bolton freaking out but refuses to buy from them and happy for them to close with people losing jobs.