CTA transition in Germany - R/T procedure

[Rhino25782]

Hi all,

So after having obtained my PPL in the US (and having flown inside and outside of CAS there) and having done some post-PPL flying "back home" in Germany in uncontrolled airspace, I'm now boldy ;-) going to request a crossing of Dusseldorf CTA.

In principle, I believe I know what I'm doing (i.e. what to ask for and what to expect). But rather than making a fool out of myself, I'd like to reassure myself that I'm expecting the R/T dialog to be something like this. Any advice (what to expect, what to omit, etc.) will be much appreciated.

A = Air, G = Ground
=========
A: Dusseldorf Tower, D-Exxx
G: D-xx, Dusseldorf Tower
A: D-xx is a Cessna 152, VFR, local flight from Essen-Mulheim, position 2 miles east of Duisburg at 2200 feet with information (x), request mid-field south-bound transition via November, Sierra.
G: D-xx, transition approved via November and Sierra, at or above 2000 feet, report November, squawk 1234
A: transition approved at or above 2000 feet, squawk 1234, D-xx

...

A: D-xx, overhead November

... (after leaving CTA)

A: D-xx, request frequency change
G: D-xx, frequency change approved, squawk 7000
A: Frequency change approved, squawk 7000, bye

=============

Is that what's going to happen? ;-)

[EDMJ]

Sounds more less like I learned it (been a while though since I crossed a control zone), would suggest some amendments though:

A: Dusseldorf Tower, D-Exxx
G: D-xx, Dusseldorf Tower
A: D-xx is a Cessna 152, VFR, local flight from Essen-Mulheim, position 2 miles east of Duisburg at 2200 feet with information (x), QNH xxxx, request mid-field south-bound transition via November, Sierra.
G: D-xx, transition approved via November and Sierra, at or above 2000 feet, report November, squawk 1234
A: transition approved at or above 2000 feet, squawk 1234, D-xx

...

A: D-xx, overhead November at xxxx feet [and if you have no prior clearance then wait for one until you actually enter the control zone]

... (after leaving CTA)

A: D-xx, leaving the control zone over Sierra at xxxx, request frequency change
G: D-xx, frequency change approved, squawk 7000
A: Frequency change approved, squawk 7000, bye

[Rhino25782]

Thanks - makes all perfect sense. Except for providing the QNH in addition to the ATIS code. I've seen this somewhere before - but can't really think of why that would be necessary?

[dirkdj]

May I suggest to take a friend along who has the experience to fly local controlled airspace?

[EDMJ]

...but can't really think of why that would be necessary?

The way I see it is that the QNH is a very important piece of information for you and everyone else around you, as having heard, understood and set it correctly ensures that you (relative to everybody else) really are at the altitude you say you're at, and not above or below it due to having set a different QNH.

[EDMJ]

By the way: At larger airports, be prepared to get stepwise clearances and to have to orbit somewhere along the way.

[Whopity]

"Transition" is an American word based on poor English and does not feature in the ICAO Radiotelephony Manual. You can request "transit" of controlled airspace or "cross" the airfield, not as common in Europe as the US.

[AlexUM]

Hi Rhino,

I fly out of EDLE too and did exactly what you have in mind. DUS is very friendly and will usually approve your request.

Be careful up there! :ok:

[letpmar]

Flying in Germany is a breeze compared to the UK. You will work the regional info service and I have known them keep you with them even through controlled airspace. Or like my trip last week they will ask for you and let you know if you are going to get through. They then usually hand you over or like I said you say with them. I think it was Stuttgart last week and he asked and came back no chance so we just went round. They are very helpful and generally it's easy flying, do watch the anger areas although they are very nice at giving you a steer.

[letpmar]

That should b Danger areas

[Steve6443]

Just to be pedantic:

A: D-xx, overhead November at xxxx feet, time xx (eg 10:34 becomes time 34)

The words in bold aren't actually required, time is only required if, for example you have passed the reporting point and (eg) ATC was talking to another aircraft so you couldn't report whilst directly overhead.

Correct would be:

A: D-xx November 2000 feet (time 34)


... (after leaving CTA)

A: D-xx, leaving the control zone over Sierra at xxxx feet, request frequency change

Once more, the bold wording isn't required, additionally you would add timing if it wasn't reported directly over the reporting point so this becomes.

A: D-xx, Sierra, 2000ft, time xx, request frequency change.

G: D-xx, frequency change approved, squawk 7000
A: Frequency change approved, squawk 7000, bye

[Steve6443]

By the way: At larger airports, be prepared to get stepwise clearances and to have to orbit somewhere along the way.

Yup, at Duesseldorf I've had them request I report November, then report 2 miles from the runway - this is where having gps really helps - and finally required me to make a 360 to the left for "spacing", all on youtube for posterity ;-)

Also please listen to the clearance you receive - you might have requested November to Sierra midfield but they will then clear you (eg) November to Sierra via the threshold of the active - and they would expect you to fly over the threshold of the active runway(s), not fly midfield - which I actually did, leaving me to get a slight telling off from the Tower ;-)

[Silvaire1]

"Transition" is an American word based on poor English and does not feature in the ICAO Radiotelephony Manual. You can request "transit" of controlled airspace or "cross" the airfield, not as common in Europe as the US.


That is so wonderfully and quintessentially British: communication complete, perfect grammar, limited action or effect ::ugh::)

God help you Rhino, in dealing with all this nonsense. I have every confidence you'll survive unscathed. Good luck! :)

[Whopity]

The quintessential Englishman wouldn't have a clue what a Transition was except perhaps for the transition from a Caterpillar to a Butterfly!
America has managed to bastardise the English language to the point where it no longer conveys a common meaning, a dangerous thing in aviation and one reason why ICAO set standards we should follow and not mock!

[EDMJ]

America has managed to bastardise the English language to the point where it no longer conveys a common meaning, a dangerous thing in aviation and one reason why ICAO set standards we should follow and not mock!

A couple of years ago I was stuck at Birmingham (UK) airport as SLF. Having to communicate with airport staff there, I would from a language point of view have preferred any American airport instead. And I have a Level 6 endorsement in English in my licence.