Radio 4 item on poor english communication

[bomford]

Hello, The UK CAA have commissioned some research on poor standards of English and miscommunications between flight crew and ATC. World at One news programme on BBC Radio 4 is planning a report on the issue. Does anyone out there have any significant examples of poor english contributing to an air incident? Even better, does anyone have any audio recordings? Please contact [email protected]. Many thanks

[Basil]

I'd suggest a trawl through:
Air Accidents Investigation: Publications & Search Reports (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/index.cfm)

Get the PA to do it - she's probably just filing her nails ;)
Ees, joke, señor, which I hope my PA younger daughter doesn't see!

[willfly380]

Research the Avianca crash in NY in 1990 i think. Miscommunication played a part.

[willfly380]

Also research the Mid air collision Near Delhi between a Saudi 747 and Kazakhstan IL76.

[P.Pilcher]

Dare we mention the incident at CDG some years ago when a non-French speaking SD3-30 pilot entered at an intersection of the runway, unaware that the other aircraft at the end had been given takeoff clearance because this was given in French? Aircraft written off, 1st. officer killed.

[lomapaseo]

Just watched one of those Air Disaster series programs on the same subject last week.

Dramatized several accidents on the subject.

repeat please

[beamender99]

1976 Zagreb mid-air collision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Zagreb_mid-air_collision)

Realising the imminent danger of collision, Tasić instructed the JP550 to stop climbing. In doing so, he reverted to his native Serbo-Croatian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbo-Croatian) language, contrary to the regulations. This meant that the British Airways plane, even if they overheard this conversation, would have very little chance of understanding their own imminent danger. The controller's last-ditch attempt to avert catastrophe turned what would have been a near miss into the collision he was trying to prevent. For, by the time JP550 had leveled off it was at flight level 330, exactly the same level as BA476

All 176 people aboard both flights, plus one person on the ground, were killed, making it, at the time, the world's deadliest mid-air collision

[SMOC]

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/518923-standard-rt-usa.html

Along the same lines.....

[west lakes]

Er, hang on!
The CAA is going to research the issue no doubt in part to see if there are any risks evident.

The BBC wants to sensationalise it and get the public concerned before the CAA actually completes it's report, which may show there isn't an issue at all!

Yep!

Oh and before folk point out the foreign language issues. It's about poor standards of english, not lack of use of it!

[poorjohn]

Oh and before folk point out the foreign language issues. It's about poor standards of english, not lack of use of it!Actually the example given is precisely the lack of use of English. Perhaps a necessary evil when a facility must support a mix of local pilots without English proficiency plus international pilots speaking the international aviation language, but one that certainly can degrade situational awareness.

[neilki]

it's not a problem....
Air China "talks" to JFK Ground - YouTube

[Pinkman]

Bomford, he problem is twofold.

1) Poor language skills in English

2) Deliberately (either through laziness, or familiarity or who knows what) using local language to talk to "home" ATC by pilots that are perfectly fluent in English. I make no apologies for pointing out that it has been a recurrent theme on this forum that Spanish and French controllers use local language when landing at their home airports. And don't get PPruners started on preferential treatment by ATC for "home" crews (not in UK).

Your PC might melt.

[hyfly]

Excellent book with examples and background information:

Steven Cushing: "Fatal Words: Communication Clashes and Aircraft Crashes"

[Basil]

No objection to, e.g., French controller using French language to control French pilot. Just don't get it wrong because we won't hear the error.

neilki, What I hear there is a JFK controller getting stressed because the Air China pilot couldn't understand a nuance at the only airport I've operated into which has this system of clearance. (In our case our company owned the stand so we did as we pleased on the stand). I guess the AC pilot needed some training and the JFK ATCO needed to cut him some slack.

[Dushan]

Dare we mention the incident at CDG some years ago when a non-French speaking SD3-30 pilot entered at an intersection of the runway, unaware that the other aircraft at the end had been given takeoff clearance because this was given in French? Aircraft written off, 1st. officer killed.

P.P.

He wants examples of poor English, not excellent French!

[HDRW]

No objection to, e.g., French controller using French language to control French pilot.

Well I suppose it's better than n'owt! Many years ago, three of us were flying our puddle-jumper (GY80) into Toulouse - not the big one, a much smaller GA field (Lasbordes?) at around lunchtime. We called them asking for join - in English of course - and got no reply. Tried several times, but still nothing. Flew overhead to look for the windsock and announced our intention to land on, say, 34. A small French voice came back: 'They've been using 16' - no callsign, just that!

We landed, taxied in and found somewhere to park. Went into the tower - empty! Went into the flying school - empty! Went into the restaurant - packed to the rafters! France doesn't just close for August, they close for lunch as well :-)

As it happened I don't think it would have mattered if we'd used the other runway, but it was an uncomfortable feeling not knowing, and thanks to the person who enlightened us, even if they didn't want to be identified. (For the left-ponded ones reading this, we don't have anything like Unicom over here - we normally only talk to the chaps on the ground).