QF Leasing Rumours

[Ka.Boom]

Rumours from mates in the sandpit indicate a leasing arrangment between EK and QF is under consideration.
EK paint up some aircraft in QF colours and leases them.These aircraft will then fly into airports where EK has used all its landing slots.Subject to bilateral agreements this arrangement would appear to have some merit
What type of lease(wet lease?) and what type of aircraft has not been forthcoming

[Capt_SNAFU]

Rumours of another Large 380 order coming from the sandpit aswell, to go on top of the big order the already have.

[Chocks Away]

Yes K.B, I would put money on it.
I thought that was a pretty obvious reason why EK went into this QF/EK deal to start with... to utilise all the unused slots of QF, globally and access more of the Oz market which is lucrative for them.
I'm afraid it may all be just a one way road... if wet leases... BUT given EK can't get enough trained/qualified crew & trained in time (bottlenecked), it may work out as dry leases.

Might see what that dick lil'Tommy Waterhouse has on it :}

Happy landings :ok:

[Ngineer]

I bet it's the B777. Yippee!!

[ButFli]

I've been hearing rumours right from the start of this EK/QF thing that QF would be getting 777s out of it.

The main one I heard was that QF would get some of EK's delivery slots off the production line for new-build 777s. I guess a lease is better than nothing.

[halas]

Dreamin! :hmm:

halas

[Watchdog]

Pffft 777's...Pure fantasy....380's will use any slots.

[Conductor]

Here we go again. :rolleyes:

When and if it's sitting at the QF gate in QF colours (and hopefully with QF crew) then I will believe it. Until then, 'fraid not. :ugh:

[Ramboflyer 1]

With QF Crews costing double the EK crews it will be a wet lease or a contract position.
EK do not throw money away.

[KRUSTY 34]

Half the cost of a QF crew!

Have things become that bad in the Sandpit?

[FYSTI]

With QF Crews costing double the EK crews Source?
Did you take into account housing / medical / education / provident fund / utilities in your calculation? ie there is an "implicit tax" on companies operating in the UAE, as opposed to an explicit one for Oz operations.

[pull-up-terrain]

With QF Crews costing double the EK crews it will be a wet lease or a contract position.
EK do not throw money away.


They definitely wouldn't be half the price, even if they were cheaper when the Australian dollar drops to prices before the gfc it will even out. I know for lame's at emirates when you add up everything in the package like housing, school, medical etc, it costs emirates about $10k less than a qantas lame but when the Australian dollar drops to below $0.90 to the us dollar it will even out.

[Fliegenmong]

How would dual liveries affect the A/C on a conveyor belt? :}

[Ka.Boom]

How about dual Qantas-Emirates liveries? | Plane Talking (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2013/05/18/how-about-dual-qantas-emirates-liveries/)

[Flying Spag Monster]

Next year sometime DXB will be down to single runway ops for a few months, this will obviously impact capacity. Perhaps over this period some excess EK airframes (777s) might be deployed with QF instead of parking them....?

[Hugh Gorgen]

Rumour around QF Fleet is that Qantas is looking for additional A330s as a stopgap until the 787-9 arrives (Assuming that they do arrive). Rumoured number varies from 2 to 10 frames. Based in Perth perhaps?

[halas]

330's.... What's he ask'n?
777's.... Tell i'm he's dreamin!

halas

[Sunfish]

It matters not. Qantas is now just another business name for Emirates. Furthermore, when the Sunni/Shia war starts, you are going to wish you had never heard of the Middle East.

[ruprecht]

Furthermore, when the Sunni/Shia war starts

It started centuries ago. Hasn't stopped since....:hmm:

[Taildragger67]

Rumours of another Large 380 order coming from the sandpit aswell, to go on top of the big order the already have.


Hasn't Tim Clark been saying for a while (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-07/emirates-may-need-30-more-a380-superjumbos-for-network-expansion.html) that they want another 30 x A380s?

[Avid Aviator]

With QF Crews costing double the EK crews

If you factor in 46.5% income tax, 7% payroll tax, 9-13% Super, fringe benefits tax on staff travel, parking spots, laptops, cars etc....

I'd say it's probably more than double!!

[Livs Hairdresser]

Absolute garbage.

Are you saying that :
-FBT on staff travel costs more than free confirmed tickets?
-providing a parking spot costs more than a limousine to work?
-EK pilots use abacuses?

FWIW, I flew with an FO on his last trip in QF before he left for EK and he showed me the orientation paperwork he had been sent. This included a very specific breakdown of the salary and benefits he would be receiving. Things such as utilities, accommodation, private school for 2 kids, medical, ERP and many other things I can't remember off the top of my head. When summed up the total package cost EK around $50000 more than his gross salary at Qantas as an FO.

So much for the high cost of Australian labour :ugh:

[Jetsbest]

You may be right although I'm not sure what income tax has to do with it!? Same same for self-funded Salary Sacrifice cars and laptops; most QF staff do not get the Executive perks for cars etc!

But were you going to talk about the EK:
- limos to/from work,
- subsidised housing,
- subsidised school fees,
- subsidised health care,
- subsidised annual travel back "home",
- faster promotion to command dollars, and
- provident fund if there is one (I'm not sure about that one)

Even EK's Aust Regional manager, in the Fin Review last year, contested QF's hysterical and inaccurate pilot pay comparisons.

Apples with apples and all that... It needs more than a couple of throw-away lines. Just sayin'.:ok:

[maggot]

And with the crumbling AUD, we'll be the cheapos of the world again... Those coming home from the desert will be happy, if theyve managed to save any :E

[hotnhigh]

Latest figures indicate the sixty four pillar strategy is suffering serious wood rot in the foundations.
Anyone ready to deny the QF9 is about to become a dubai shuttle service in the imminent future. i.e. QF to reduce services to London by 50 percent?
Bloody refuellers on the money again perhaps.
And how many 737 off lease soon?

[standard unit]

Yes and the Qantas loads into and out of Singapore to/from all State Capitals running at under 50 %.

We haven't heard much from the little fella of late.

Perhaps some words of encouragement from the Ivory Towers to the plebs at the coal face might be in order.

Especially given the concerns many of us feel at the observed current load factors.

Or perhaps they think another round of musical chairs at the top might be all thats needed to re-instil confidence that Qantas remains in good hands.......:rolleyes:

[standard unit]

Emirates tie-up fails to boost Qantas performance - Travel & Hospitality - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/emirates-tie-up-fails-boost-qantas-performance-503849.html)

[Stalins ugly Brother]

Yes and the Qantas loads into and out of Singapore to/from all State Capitals running at under 50 %.

We haven't heard much from the little fella of late.

Perhaps some words of encouragement from the Ivory Towers to the plebs at the coal face might be in order.

Especially given the concerns many of us feel at the observed current load factors.

Or perhaps they think another round of musical chairs at the top might be all thats needed to re-instil confidence that Qantas remains in good hands.......


Maybe there is another parchment in the pipeline! :E

[Animalclub]

As soon as the QF/EK tie up was announced it was obvious to blind Freddy what was going to happen. I'm another one who agrees with Sunfish - QF will be taken over by stealth... only it's not stealthy any more.

[V-Jet]

+1. The awful truth.

[donpizmeov]

Yet EK are upgrading to 380s on most of the east coast oz flights. Makes you wonder huh? Summer time loads from DXB to LHR are normally huge. Fingers crossed things pick up for the rat.

the Don

[Capt Kremin]

Many, many empty seats on QF to Singapore in the next few days. If it continues, this will also affect Jetstar Asia.

That has nothing to do with scheduling uncertainty.

[The Green Goblin]

What do they expect with Singapore? It's never really been a destination but rather a charming little stopover.

Can the onwards flights, and you lose the customers.

I'd much rather stop in Singapore than Dubai. As would everyone I know. No-one has any interest in stopping in a hot ****-hole that has no culture, no refinement and no tolerance. Hopefully this damage can be reversed and soon.

Or was that the plan? Build Jetstar up in Singapore and start sending those 787s from Singapore to Europe?

[indamiddle]

What is happening with our London slots?
We had 5 flights a day, now we have 2.
Is it a use it or lose it or do we use dummy flights to keep them?
They must be worth a motza (to emirates)
Word from Frankfurt is that the airport owns the slots and deathstar have no hope of getting a slot in there

[gaunty]

And Qantas slide ever more rapidly but inexorably out the back door.:{

[PPRuNeUser0198]

What is happening with our London slots?

Leased to British Airways.

[Livs Hairdresser]

Maybe somebody who has a better understanding of how the QF/EK alliance works could explain a few things to me.

I've seen quite a few reports that the number of EK customers booking QF domestic sectors is 7 times the number that used to book through the previous alliance. According to the ACCC determination, QF now have to pay a commission to EK for each of these passengers. This would be great if they were additional passengers, compared to prior to the alliance. I would suggest that a vast majority of these would have travelled QF anyway, regardless of the tie-up. So now QF is losing revenue in the form of this commission, where as prior to the alliance they weren't.

The other side of the coin is that QF should also receive a commission from EK when a QF customer books on a non-trunk route EK flight. The problem we have now is that no one in their right mind will be booking through QF until the $600 fuel surcharge loophole is sorted (just add that one to the long list of cock ups!). Either :

1) EK put their prices up - can't see the ACCC being too happy about that.
or
2) QF reduce the surcharge - more revenue lost.

I'm desperately trying to see how this isn't a lose/lose situation for QF.