Transavia captain locked out of cockpit while F/O asleep

[1stspotter]

avherald reports about this
Incident: Transavia B738 over Mediterranean on Sep 20th 2012, captain locked out of cockpit (http://avherald.com/h?article=45cd431c&opt=0)

A Transavia Boeing 737-800, registration PH-HZF performing flight HV-457 from Hurghada (Egypt) to Amsterdam (Netherlands), was enroute at FL360 on autopilot over the Mediterranean Sea near Crete about 2.5 hours into the flight, when the captain left the cockpit to take a toilet break. When he attempted to return to the cockpit, there was no response from the cockpit. The captain informed cabin crew, with the assistance of cabin crew the door was opened. Upon entering the cockpit the captain found the first officer asleep. The flight was continued to Amsterdam for a safe landing.

[BOAC]

I hope he apologised to the F/O for waking him up.

[Mikehotel152]

I hope he apologised to the F/O for waking him up.


Or left him sleeping?

[mike-wsm]

......and went back for a quiet snooze in the cabin.

[fantom]

Sneaky way to log P1 time.

[golfyankeesierra]

Definition of "just culture" from flightsafety.org:
According to Reason (1997), the components of a safety culture include: just, reporting, learning, informed and flexible cultures. Reason describes a Just Culture as an atmosphere of trust in which people are encouraged (even rewarded) for providing essential safety-related information, but in which they are also clear about where the line must be drawn between acceptable and unacceptable behaviour

Nice,
next time you report an error, a lapse, a stupid mistake, or whatever, you end up on The Aviation Herald, on Pprune and probably the desk of your Chiefpilot as well.

So much for "Just Culture" :yuk::yuk::yuk:
Be warned!

[racedo]

Wonder will Dutch Aviation Authority mount a huge investigation with TV producing programs about Dutchy airline staff asleep on duty.......... its ok I already know the answer.

[1stspotter]

I guess crew can learn from this incident: make sure always two persons are in the cockpit. When captain or FO leaves cockpit, a flight attendant goes into cockpit. Read on avherald a story about both pilots leaving the cockpit at the same time and forgot the code to unlock cockpit door.

[captplaystation]

Think the lesson from this is do NOT foget the door code. . . ( note to self :=)


Seems at least in this case the CC remembered . . bless :D

[fantom]

Mind you, AMS-HRG-AMS in a slug...dreadful. What's that, two days?

[fireflybob]

Last company I flew for required a member of cabin crew to sit on flight deck if you had to leave for a comfort break.

[Herod]

Agreed. It's totally stupid to leave just one person on the flight deck side of a locked door. My last two companies both required a member of cabin crew there if either pilot had to take a comfort break.

[Bearcat]

"Wonder will Dutch Aviation Authority mount a huge investigation with TV producing programs about Dutchy airline staff asleep on duty.......... its ok I already know the answer."

Hope they do.....over slaved airlines desire the same wrath. Good point racedo!

[500 above]

Firefly - which company required c/c to 'sit on flightdeck' ? I want a job with them!

[LimaFoxTango]

500 above Firefly - which company required c/c to 'sit on flightdeck' ? I want a job with them!


Not sure about the "sit" part, most companies just require the FA to "be in" the flight deck.

[fireflybob]

Not sure about the "sit" part, most companies just require the FA to "be in" the flight deck.

That's what I meant! There are also security issues but don't want to relate those on a public forum.

[Private jet]

Bring back the Flight Engineer.

[fantom]

Bring back the Flight Engineer.


Agree. If you come down in the desert you can eat him.

Royal Air Force training.

[BOAC]

Too much fat on the ones I have met..................now, a hostie.............

[Leg]

...not much meat on them, bet they taste better though :p

[CONF iture]

with the assistance of cabin crew the door was opened.
Why did he need their assistance in the first place ?
Must be something else in that story ...

[aterpster]

Why did he need their assistance in the first place ?
Must be something else in that story ...

Perhaps they were trained and current on the last-restort way to get onto the flight deck, but he was not.

That would not be surprising at all.

[Tank2Engine]

No worries though, the new EASA FTL's will soon nip all of this in the bud because in the future they will BOTH be asleep! :suspect:

At least the corrupt politicians will sleep well at night, knowing that they can always get a job in the airline management if their political career fails... :yuk:

[fergineer]

Whats with the get at FE's if there had have been one on the flight deck two things.1 The copilot would not have been asleep 2. The Captain would not have had to resort to help to get him in.
Love em or hate em the FE was worth his weight in gold or maybe rations even.

[PENKO]

What do flight engineers have to do with an incident where it is totally obvious that the captain forgot his emergency access code?

Transavia would never have had an engineer on the 737, nor would any airline in the last 50 years! ;)

[mochahagotdi]

This just in........do not believe everything you read in the press. Lately there seems to be a tendency for the press to overreact and make stuff up as they go along. A source within the Dutch safety board confirms that the F/O did fall asleep. The same source also stated quite clearly that the captain opened the door himself after using the emergency code. The crew reported this incident which to me seems to be the professional thing to do. To all of us, this should be a learning moment instead of a reason to make up fairytale stories about pilots "forgetting" emergency codes, and needing the cabin crew to open the door.

[Superpilot]

Is it regulation to have an emergency access code? My last airline we had them. The current mob not.

[PENKO]

Superpilot, so your colleague could become incapacitated while you go to the loo and no one could ever open that door again? Or do you require an additional crew member in the flight deck?

[Centaurus]

What do flight engineers have to do with an incident where it is totally obvious that the captain forgot his emergency access code?

Transavia would never have had an engineer on the 737, nor would any airline in the last 50 years!

It went right over his Teutonic (?) head, chaps..:D

[Superpilot]

PENKO, current airline there is no such requirement to have one CC member in the cockpit when one pilot leaves and neither do we have an emergency code.

[BOAC]

SP - have you ever wondered what would happen if the captain collapsed while you were out of the cockpit or vice versa? It might be worth asking your company for their take on this. I am assuming, of course,that you have a locked door?

[robdean]

A great advantage of CC in cockpit is that they can always fall back on "We will shortly be landing in Amsterdam. Will flight deck crew please return their seats to the upright position, wipe any drool from their chin, and open the door for the captain..."

[PENKO]

Centaurus, when you quote me, please also quote my smileys. My post was in reference to Fergineer's remark.


Superpilot, are you not slightly worried that you might never get access back into the flight deck if your colleague becomes incapacitated?

[angels]

I suppose it shouldn't be, but this is a cracking thread.

As you were gentlemen! :8

[jossurf]

SP.... An axe handy perhaps? ;)

[PENKO]

Superpilot, with all respect to your operation, to me that seems like an extremely serious deficiency in your SOP's. Are you operating under a UK AOC?

How can you not be aware of the normal entry key. Is there no operations manual for your cockpit door?

[PENKO]

Ok, good luck, just don't stay in the toilet for too long :ok:

[BOAC]

the other guy pulling up the release knob in the normal way - that was the initial system in the UK. You should, I feel, ask your company what happens if "the other guy pulling up the release knob in the normal way" is actually unconscious or dead? You certainly will not get in with a fire axe (where is that stowed?) - if your a/c is a 737 the door is reckoned to be the strongest part of the aircraft.

[Mikehotel152]

...there is no Normal Entry code that we are aware of let alone an Emergency Code.


Have I misunderstood: you have a keypad lock but nobody knows the emergency access code? :uhoh:

And no CC in the cockpit when a pilot goes to the lav to check his make-up before landing?

Joking aside, but has nobody learned from Helios, let alone from something like the Transavia incident which had potential serious consequences, leaving aside the basic incompetence of missing RT calls, TCAS, system malfunctions etc etc?

[crewmeal]

Don't tell the Daily Mail.

[BOAC]

Don't worry - the airline is in South China and I don't think the Wail is too 'prevalent' there.

[Phantom Driver]

Mocha-



This just in........do not believe everything you read in the press. Lately
there seems to be a tendency for the press to overreact and make stuff up as they go along. A source within the Dutch safety board confirms that the F/O did fall asleep. The same source also stated quite clearly that the captain opened the door himself after using the emergency code. The crew reported this incident which to me seems to be the professional thing to do. To all of us, this should be a learning moment instead of a reason to make up fairytale stories about pilots "forgetting" emergency codes, and needing the cabin crew to open the door.



Surprised nobody has seen fit to comment on, or even acknowledge your assertions, hence the continued drift, speculation, ill informed nature of some of the subsequent posts. If your statement is indeed verified, then subject should be CLOSED:{

CC
Its also an example of, how important it is to check the codes before starting the cockpit set-up.

Yup; SOP?!

[Dengue_Dude]

I'm still smarting over the comment about the FE being the first one to fall asleep . . . which one of you two-winged master-race blabbed?

But I used to wake up relatively often too - you know that trivial take-off and landing thing.

I used to put the emergency code in my phone as a telephone number, but knowing my luck, the phone would have been in my navbag . . . .on the flight deck!

Oh dear, how embarrassing.

[RTO]

Last company I flew for required a member of cabin crew to sit on flight deck if you had to leave for a comfort break.

In today's cost cutting airlines you will always operate all flights with a skeleton crew in the cabin, they hardly have time to visit the lav themselves.

[aterpster]

In today's cost cutting airlines you will always operate all flights with a skeleton crew in the cabin, they hardly have time to visit the lav themselves.

Unless it is an A380 and a British movie actor is involved. :)

[hifly787]

500 above
my co specifies ccic to sit in jump seat . May be a male !!!!!

[de facto]

Yes a KEY...go find it.:ugh:

[wisman]

Security Vs Safety.

[Yancey Slide]

SLF nowadays, but the US carriers on domestic routes with no relief crew that I've flown on in the last few years have someone from the CC pop onto the flight deck when one of the pilots leave.