FR emergency landing in Genoa; "scenes of panic on board"

[artyh]

Details appearing on Italian news sites, FR4632 Valencia - Bergamo makes emergency landing in Genova
Genova, atterraggio di emergenza: due feriti - Notizie - MSN Italia (http://t.notizie.it.msn.com/italia/genova-atterraggio-di-emergenza-due-feriti)

[Blind Squirrel]

From Il Salvatente:

Atterraggio d'emergenza per Ryanair, è il terzo in un anno (http://www.ilsalvagente.it/Sezione.jsp?titolo=Atterraggio+d%27emergenza+per+Ryanair%2C+ è+il+3°+in+un+anno&idSezione=19592)


Emergency Landing by Ryanair, The Third in a Year

Scenes of Panic on Board, Two Persons Injured. Pressurisation Problems


Panic on board and a toll of two persons injured after an emergency landing took place at Christopher Columbus Airport in Genoa by a Ryanair flight operating directly from Valencia to Bergamo. Two women suffered injuries, one to the ear and the other to the chest, and were transported to the St Martin and Villa Scassi hospitals in Genoa. According to reports, the aeroplane experienced a depressurisation problem.

Moments of genuine panic were experienced by the 93 passengers on board the aircraft after the descent of the oxygen masks. Firefighters and ground staff of the Genoa Airport were on hand to render assistance. Air traffic at the Ligurian airports was closed off to allow the aircraft to land safely.

The passengers were transported to Bergamo by coach.

In the meantime a statement was made by the Irish company. "Flight FR 4632 (Valencia-Bergamo), on January 23, was diverted to Genoa when an indicator light showed a possible depressurisation problem in the cabin," it said. "In conformity with standard operating procedure the captain deployed oxygen masks and made a controlled emergency descent to a non-pressurisation altitude, before landing normally at Genoa at 09:50 approximately (local time). The passengers," the statement concluded, "were taken by coach to Milan to minimise delay; in the meantime Ryanair engineers are now inspecting the aircraft prior to putting it back in service."

This is not the first time that a mishap of this kind has occurred to the Irish company. In August 2011 a Palermo-Bologna flight had to land early at Rome Ciampino on account of an alleged engine problem. The company, on that occasion, denied that an emergency landing had occurred, but said that the aircraft had been diverted to Rome Ciampino "for precautionary reasons, following a small emission of smoke from a reading light." The flight then took off once again and arrived in Bologna ninety minutes late.

Last April, however, two flights from Milan to Brindisi and from Milan to the Canary Islands had to return after take-off because of technical problems. In neither case was an emergency landing involved, but the news nonetheless made the rounds of websites and newspapers.

[Wizofoz]

This is not the first time that a mishap of this kind has occurred to the Irish company. In August 2011 a Palermo-Bologna flight had to land early at Rome Ciampino on account of an alleged engine problem.

?????????????????????????????

So, in a company of around 300 Aircraft, an engine problem alwost two years ago is "This knid of mishap" along with a depress (that seems to have been handled to SOP)??

Do you HAVE to be a moron to be a Journo??

[Daermon ATC]

an engine problem alwost two years ago is "This knid of mishap"

They are probably refering only to incidents in Italy. Spanish press has mentioned last year's similar incidents in flights between Madrid and Gran Canaria as well as another one between Valencia and Santiago de Compostela.

Un avión de Ryanair procedente de Valencia hace un aterrizaje de emergencia | Economía | EL PAÍS (http://economia.elpais.com/economia/2013/01/23/actualidad/1358944817_831478.html)

[Herod]

Before we all get excited, it wasn't an "emergency" landing. Seems to me that following a depressurisation and descent, landing at the nearest suitable airfield is a good idea. I guess I would have made the same decision in the circumstances.

[G-CELB]

I had a push notification from the Flightradar24 app on my iPhone about this flight squawking 7700. At the point when I received the notification and started watching it was just south of Nice and already down to 10,000ft. It continued at FL100 up the coast before turning right across the water and then left to make its descent into Genova from the East of the airport. I wondered for a while if it was going to continue all the way to Milan at FL100 given that it hadn't landed at Nice which was clearly its nearest option after the problem had arisen.

Anyway, just awaiting the usual party to kick off on the Daily Mail now! :rolleyes:

[captplaystation]

Genoa to Bergamo at FL100 is not a long way (particularly as you would normally be descended fairly early anyhow in Milano TMA) Strange they didn't just continue to destination & save everyone a lot of hassle.

With the obvious caveat, I wasn't there on the day.

[fdr]

Do you HAVE to be a moron to be a Journo??

NO, but it helps being able to dialog with HR at a common level... Apparently editorial rigor is in need of viagra. Get a grip, paper people you are not helping to raise awareness of the public by printing something that is better recycled as toilet paper.

Events happen, and nothing in this is other than an event to put back into the mix of risk management by the company... it is not a mishap by any measure of the term by any dictionary use or by Annex 13 definitions.


PS: interesting that the last medical stuff up didn't get aired on a public forum... if it did, there would be a collapse of the bandwidth available to the internet. Equally, don't see much evidence of the papers sensationalising the abject failures of the politicians on a daily basis, which are far more significant to society than one of MOL's rollerskates dropping nose bags. When did the papers start pinging GS, Blackrock, HSBC for activity that does more than raise eyebrows? How is it that the paper can illegally intercept transmissions and the only people that get nicked is the police? If FR or other programs bury people, perhaps that would be noteworthy, about as much as the next accident on the M25? People die hourly from the use of tobacco, alcohol, and cars, yet someone gets to transit a nearby airport and are inconvenienced by the fact they have to wear a nose bag. Big deal, the pax elect to pay peanuts, and the public's eyes well up when they are inconvenienced by a technical defect of a mechanical device.

[DownIn3Green]

Hey Jazz...Don't worry about it...Blind is the "same" poster that thinks a runway "EXcursion" is a big deal as well....looking for the ol'e "What do you guys think?" type post...:ugh:


I don't know how it is in other A/C, but I've had the pleasure of flying "un-pressurised" in the 727 3 times in 23 years....Only once was it due to the "high dive"...

It gets unbelieveably hot in the cabin at 10,000'...so the fact that these guys dropped the masks manually and executed a "slow" descent probably stopped some panic, rather than doing a "high dive" and flying along with a 35 degree C cabin temp....

[PENKO]

Captainplaystation, they had injured passengers in the back, seems a sound decision to land at the nearest in stead of flying another twenty minutes or so at low altitude (fuel!) to Bergamo with panicking pax. They just can't get it right here on PPRuNe :E

[Sober Lark]

The headline writer has to accurately represent what is in the story. With this in mind it still has to be attention grabbing and normally the journalist who reports on the incident doesn't write the headline.

If I was scared of flying and was later interviewed a journalist could accurately say 'a terrified passenger'. If I was concerned about putting on an oxygen mask one could say there was 'panic'. Panic could simply be an alarming feeling many passengers experienced. The signs of panic actually displayed is left open to reader interpretation but in the strict sense reporting it is accurate.

[Aldente]

Ryanair do seem to be rather unlucky with these type of incidents. A quick search on AvHerald shows 7 cabin pressurisation problems for RYR compared to 2 for Easyjet and 2 for BA in a similar period.

[PENKO]

Different aircraft types, different number of aircraft...I don't know, you tell me.

[paparomeodelta]

FR log much more hours on their airframes, you have to put that in relation to the number of depressurisation incidents, "pressurisation-fatigue"...

[fireflybob]

FR log much more hours on their airframes, you have to put that in relation to the number of depressurisation incidents, "pressurisation-fatigue"...

Agree but also I imagine their aircraft also do more pressurisation cycles than many other operators also?

[paparomeodelta]

Agree, that´s what I also meant, txs for clarifying

[RAT 5]

The pax injuries sound like rapid rise in pressure problems. Years ago an Air Europe B757 depressurised at FL350 and dived. If I remember correctly there were several pax with major ear problems. In my biz-jet days I had a pax, who at FL100, was screaming in ear pain. They had a cold. The only solution was to climb and then descend at a lower rate for the cabin. They were in terrible pain with only 500fpm ROD. Now imagine the effect of 4000fpm ROD. That's what happened on B757. Now imagine it happens to one of the crew. They will be incapacitated, severely. I've tried for years to argue that the ROD in an unpressurised descent needs to be reduced long before 10,000'. You go ski-ing at 12,000' no problem. An unpressurised a/c, e.g. PA-31, flies max 500fpm up & down for safety & comfort, but a jet at 11,000' can subject everyone to 4000fpm change. Why? Daft, unnecessary unless you are a lawyer. When real life mechanical failures occur the industry learns form them and redesigns the bit that broke. After unpressurised descents and ear problems occur why is the procedure not redesigned to alleviate, safely, the potential critical safety problem? Pax O2 comes on at 14,000'; that would be a good place to consider changing the SOP. The rate of increase in pressure/2000' of descent is massive below 20,000 compared to the higher levels. Everyone is on O2 so 2000fpm ROD at FL180 and then 1000fpm ROD at FL140 will not kill anyone, but it sure will alleviate burst ear drums. So why don't we do it? What is the medical physiological reason not to do so? It is really so black & white about 10,000'?

[cockney steve]

Nothing to do with RYR, per se.- the aircraft were, I think, sold to them by Messrs. BOEING.

Maybe, if I were Mr. Boeing and a customer screwed me down on price, I might be tempted to slip in a few "seconds" /"Regraded" Ex-demonstrators or the like, in the large,but not very profitable order. :}

But , of course, this didn't happen. RYR has a well-maintained ,shiny modern fleet...they're worked hard and some failures are inevitable ,especially in what is essentially a series-built,hand-assembled product.

stupid press, little integrity, slow news day and they desperately wanted to give their "readers" a change from the financial doom 'n gloom.

[Sunnyjohn]

an indicator light showed a possible depressurisation problem in the cabin, (my italics) There are all sorts of reasons why passengers may have been injured but does anyone know if the plane did depressurise?

[syseng68k]

fdr:


> Do you HAVE to be a moron to be a Journo??

NO, but it helps being able to dialog with HR at a common level...
Apparently editorial rigor is in need of viagra. Get a grip, paper
people you are not helping to raise awareness of the public by printing
something that is better recycled as toilet paper.
Brilliant. Off the cuff, direct and to the point, especially the bit about HR http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[DaveReidUK]

but does anyone know if the plane did depressurise? Clue: the passenger oxygen masks deployed

[I Just Drive]

DaveReid, the masks can be deployed manually regardless of the pressurisation situation in the cabin. I think I read this I what happened.

[Sunnyjohn]

Clue: the passenger oxygen masks deployed

Since you clearly failed to read the report, I've quoted more:

an indicator light showed a possible depressurisation problem in the cabin," it said. "In conformity with standard operating procedure the captain deployed oxygen masks

So, does anyone know if the aircraft did depressurise?

[DaveReidUK]

Since you clearly failed to read the report Sounds like I'm not the only one who can't read:

According to reports, the aeroplane experienced a depressurisation problem.Ryanair's carefully-worded statement does not deny this.

If there was no depressurisation, then it's highly unlikely that a descent from cruising altitude to FL100, no matter how fast, would have resulted in a cabin ROD rapid enough to account for passengers reportedly being hospitalised with ear injuries.

[RAT 5]

The only 'light' I can think of in this scenario is the Cabin Altitude red warning light on the fwd instrument panel; next to the takeoff config warning light, as both warnings have the same audible warning sound. Surely if the Cabin Alt warning light came on the fact would have been confirmed by the Diff & cabin ROC gauges. Would anyone deploy the O2 based purely on a single light? Or is there another light I've forgotten about?

[Sunnyjohn]

According to reports, the aeroplane experienced a depressurisation problem

Apologies for being pedantic, DR, but this statement could be interpreted as saying that the depressurisation problem was the showing of the warning light. Trust RA to be vague!

[BOAC]

AvHerald indicates the possibility of a single bleed trip, precautionary descent ) not sure why) and a second bleed trip. Had one years ago on a BA 737 Classic - initial clues were were ram doors open at cruise alt on both packs, followed by single trip (no reset) then second trip. I hit reset again on the first pack and it reset, followed by the second so no descent required.

I guess 'bleed trip' explains the light?

[RAT 5]

Why would 'bleed trip' not resettable require a descent to 10,000, or cause a depressurisation. I understand what you said about a 2nd trip, but that would require a multiple failure. Is that what happened here? Bleed trip = 1 pack in high flow. It does not require a descent Fl250. That's crew discretion. If in a descent with EAI on it would be prudent to descend with more than idle to avoid a possible 2nd trip, of the operating bleed. However, previous posts suggest this was not the case, as the descent was made well before normal TOD.
Once again we are speculating in the dark searching for the needle of truth. It's out there somewhere, but often it takes a long time to reach here.

[Blind Squirrel]

...from L'Eco di Bergamo


"It all happened so suddenly. The masks came down; the aeroplane lost height fast and we didn't know what was going on. These were moments of terror." Understandably, Vittorio Bassi -- an employee in his 'forties who was one of the 93 passengers who, yesterday morning, found themselves on board a Ryanair flight from Valencia to Orio al Serio which was forced to make an emergency landing at Genoa because of a pressurisation problem -- is still in shock.

After the landing two passengers, a fifteen-year-old girl returning to Bergamo after visiting her sister in Spain, and a thirty-eight-year-old Spanish woman, were taken to two hospitals...[T]he captain took the aircraft down from 9,000 metres to 3,000 metres AMSL in a few minutes to enable the pressure in the aeroplane to be brought to a manageable level....

It appears that the ENAC -- the National Civil Aviation Agency -- intends to open an investigation into the incident.


Il racconto dei passeggeri Ryanair: «Sono stati momenti di terrore» - Cronaca - L'Eco di Bergamo - Notizie di Bergamo e provincia (http://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/Cronaca/345697_ryanair/)

[BOAC]

Regardless of why they elected to descend, it is worth remembering that descent from FL400 to FL100 within the 12 minutes of pax oxy supply requires a significant average rate of descent.

[mickb]

My daughter and I were seated at the very back of the aircraft. I witnessed no panic. Some questions were asked of the cabin crew as to what was happening.

The crew did move about front to back trying to relay what they knew. We were generally apprehensive and frightened of the worst case as would be normal under the circumstances. We were asked by a crew member did we know how to open the rear emergency door. The crew member proceeded to remind us how, should they not be available to do it.

The shock of hearing 'prepare for emergency landing' and the deployment of oxygen masks stays with me. Once we had levelled out it would have helped allay fears if we knew that standard operating proceedure had taken place, followed by perhaps engines performing normally or/and fuseilage intergrity not compromised. Perhaps no communication of his nature is also SOP.