Robin DR400-160 checklist?

[Pilot.Lyons]

Does anyone know where i can get an english dr400 checklist from?

I have trawled the internet and only come across poor translated and misaligned versions.... Getting bored of looking.

I think there is one in the aircraft but not as detailed as im used to with the cessnas!

[Vone Rotate]

Not sure but I know Hampshire Aeroplane Club operate one so a friendly email to them will probably put you on the right track....

[Pilot.Lyons]

Thanks V one ill give them an email

[BackPacker]

PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you one.

But the DR400 is a very simple aircraft, so "kick the tires, light the fires" would cover 99% of your requirements. There are only three twists to the aircraft that I could think of.

1. Depending on the exact model you may have three fuel tanks. One main tank and two saddle tanks in the inboard section of the wings. So you need to make sure you are using the right tank, and switch tanks every now and then. Also, you may want to develop a procedure for yourself that lets you run the aircraft on each tank for a while, to verify proper operation, before you take off. Taxi on one tank, runup and takeoff on the other won't do it since that's only two tanks checked.

2. The flaps are not strong enough to stand on. Their fabric won't hold your weight and they don't have an over-center stop like a PA28 does. So somewhere at the end of your checklist, after engine shutdown, should be a "flaps down" entry. And similarly somewhere at the beginning you should have a "flaps up" entry.

3. The starter is not integrated with the mag switch. So you need to switch the mag switch to "both" (with your left hand) and then operate the starter button (with your right hand).

Apart from these three twists you can essentially use any checklist from any light aircraft (that has fixed gear and fixed prop).

(But note that the -135CDI or -140CDI is very different, especially in the engine handling department. They really do need different procedures, especially in the emergency section.)

[Rod1]

I may have one you can have. I will have to find it but it will be post Xmas.

Rod1

[Jude098]

Cotswold Aero Club at Gloucestershire Airport have 2 x DR400's a 108 and a 120.

I know they sell laminated check lists for about £5

01452 713924

email [email protected] ([email protected]?subject=Website Enquiry)

[A and C]

First some DR400-180's & DR400-140B's ( actually a 160 hp aircraft) have a fuel tank under the baggage bay.

Second, take a look at the Use of primer on the PA28 thread, it might save you from setting fire to your Robin if the checklist is badly written....... And some of them are!!!!!

[Pilot.Lyons]

Hi thanks for all the help and replies.

It is the three tank version so i mainly run it on the main tank.

Have a brill christmas and new year everyone and ill maybe buzz by you in the air soon :)

[A and C]

The three tank Robin DR400-180 is very good from a fuel management point of view.

The centre tank low fuel warning tells you that you may not be able to make a go-around with that tank selected, but it gives you a safe 20 min to dry warning in level flight at 75 % power.

The wing tanks give one hour of fuel each with a 5 min warning to dry tank.

I usually run the main and one wing tank almost dry planning to be on the ground shortly after changing to the full wing tank that I know has an hours fuel in it.

With the 180 fitted with the supplementary tank (under the baggage bay) the aircraft in more than happy to get as far as Northern Spain non stop from South Oxfordshire. I feel much more confident with the fuel management on the Robin than on my PA28 because the fuel usage can be much more closely monitored on a four tank aircraft.

NOTE all the numbers are for the 180 aircraft, the 160 should burn slightly less fuel.

[500 above]

Apart from these three twists you can essentially use any checklist from any light aircraft (that has fixed gear and fixed prop).

Be very wary of advice such as the above. I'm a great believer of using a flow in a light aircraft. However, stick with what you are happy and familiar with. For goodness sake, use a Robin checklist for a Robin!

[BackPacker]

I'm a great believer of using a flow in a light aircraft. However, stick with what you are happy and familiar with. For goodness sake, use a Robin checklist for a Robin!

Agree on both counts. However, this does bring us back to the old question what a checklist is for and how/when it should be used.

The OP wrote: "I think there is one in the aircraft but not as detailed as im used to with the cessnas!" suggesting that he is using the checklist as a very extensive to-do list. I'm not going to pass a moral judgement on that, other than if that's the way you're used to (and happy with), you indeed need a DR400-160 specific checklist which can be used as an extensive to-do list too.

If you're in the other camp, which uses a checklist as a short after-action check list, or uses a flow to do/check things and no paper checklist, your requirements are different. You should be able to fit the twists that I wrote about in your "generic" checklist or apply them in your flow without a need to use something different.

[Pilot.Lyons]

Thanks for all the useful advice and tips i really appreciate it.

[A and C]

As the standard DR400 has no fuel flow indication the only way to accurately check the rate of fuel burn is to check how long it has taken to burn a known quantity of fuel.

With three or four fuel tanks (depending on the aircraft options) and a low level indicator that accurately indicates the remaining fuel in each tank this gives several "hard points" at which the fuel flow can be determined for the prevailing conditions on that particular flight.

I find it difficult to understand why you warn that this methode of determining the fuel state and remaining endurance of the aircraft is advice that one should be wary of.

[500 above]

A & C

Apart from these three twists you can essentially use any checklist from any light aircraft (that has fixed gear and fixed prop).


It was the quote above I was referring to, not your post which was above mine.

[FullWings]

Checklists in simple light aircraft are a matter of taste, IMHO.

I've hundreds of hours in Robins of varying descriptions and have never felt the need for a checklist - a flow scan works well before takeoff and once you're in the air, there's not much left to do that doesn't come under the heading of just flying a simple aircraft.

Most gliding clubs I know who operate Robins as tugs don't provide written checklists and frown on the use of them, as you should be concentrating on the world outside and be at the stage where you "know your aircraft".

However, if a checklist makes someone happier when they use it, why not?

[A and C]

I tend to agree but you are flying the simple glider tug variant with only one fuel tank and a limited flight profile. The aim of your multiple daily flights is to get the glider attached to your aircraft into a thermal and then get back on the ground to get the next glider into the air.

The club pilot may well be flying only two or three take offs a month with an aircraft that has three or four fuel tanks and about to navigate a route covering four hundred miles. I would suggest that the average club pilot has a lot more to think about that you do when launching the Robin but has a lot less currentcy on the aircraft..........hence the much tighter checklist procedures.

[BackPacker]

Checklist is on the way.

[Pilot.Lyons]

Thanks backpacker received with many thanks

For some people...... i am the sort of person who flys and feels rather than follow checklists for every stage..... I do however have lots of hours in cessnas but only 2 in the robin and would like to be thorough when getting started, Mainly forgetting fuel pump switch which cessna being high wing don't have.... Something silly like that i don't want to miss! Once its habit (like the cessnas) ill be fine.

[Flyin'Dutch']

In addition to what has already been written - especially by BackPacker I have 2 comments to make.

The nose wheel steering disengages in flight and the resting positing is 'straight ahead'

If you land gently and well held off the mechanism can be slow to re-engage and you then have no nose wheel steering. Easily remedied by gently moving the stick forward on touch down or a gentle tap on the brakes.

The other issue is that the main tank is the one to use for take off and landing.

My SOP is to start on the lowest wing tank, taxy on the other wing tank and then do the run up and take-off on the mains tank.

In the cruise back to the wing tanks until they are empty and then finish off on the main tank.

Other SOPs are a available but I find that by operating the above regime I know that I end up with the fuel where I can use it for all stages of flight.

Enjoy flying the Robins - they are great bits of kit.

[Pilot.Lyons]

Thanks flyin dutch, will do i love them already !

[A and C]

I have to disagree with you, the reason the nose leg may be slow to disengage from the centering mechanism is that the oil/air quantitys are wrong in the landing gear shock struts, what you are describing is a defect with your aircraft and should be addressed by your maintenance provider, not by putting extra stress on the nose gear when landing.

As for fuel tank usage the main tank has a problem in that the last 10 lts or so can't be used in the climbing attitude and so the main tank should NOT be used for landing in a low fuel situation. From an endurance point of view it is far better to run the main tank dry in the cruise and land on one of the wing tanks. That way you can burn all the fuel on the aircraft rather than have the engine stop in the go-around dispite having enough fuel in the tank for another circuit.

I suspect that the later DR400 & 500 that were manufactured may have addressed the unusable fuel in the climb due to the different shape of the main tank fuel pick up, but if you use my SOP it is good for all DR400 aircraft.

Of course I would recomend not getting the fuel that low in the first place but you should know what to do if fate gangs up on you !

[Flyin'Dutch']

IIRC but no POH here to hand is that you HAVE to use the mains for take-off and landing, not the wing tanks; that makes a bit of sense too as there are variants for the DR400 which only have the mains tank - no wing tanks nor the auxilary fuselage tank.

Re Nose Gear; the steering engaging/disengaging mechanism is a purely mechanical affair; nothing to do with the strut air/oil bits, although a low strut due to lack of air/oil will make the symptoms described worse; not better.

But happy to stand corrected as I know nothing.

:rolleyes:

[BackPacker]

No POH to hand either so I cannot confirm or deny, but having to use the main tank for take-off and landing is something I have not heard before. It's also not in the club checklist. And I can confirm that the aircraft takes off and lands perfectly fine on the saddle tanks - but I have to admit I have never come close to running one of the tanks dry and I would not want to land or take-off with an almost-dry tank selected in the first place.

What I have done, and which may serve as a warning to others, is select the fuel selector "off" while I intended to select the main tank. We were at 1000' when it happened, and fortunately my pilot passenger caught my mistake immediately. Otherwise we might not have recovered in time. Reason is the on-ergonomic design of the fuel selector, where backwards is the main tank, and forward is shut-off.:=

[A and C]

There are a number of issues of the flight manual but for the two aircraft that I have owned there was a warning that fuel flow from the main tank was not assured in the climb attitude when the low quantity warning was illuminated, the first aircraft I had was a DR400-140 with only the main tank fitted, my current aircraft (DR400-180) has the same warning in the flight manual but no limitation in which tank to use for take off and landing, I would send you a copy but the FM is in the aircraft, not at my desk.

You are correct about the nose wheel centering mechanism being mechanical but it operates as a function of nose leg extension and is engaged at the last 20mm or so of leg extension.

So if the nose gear is extended to far, ether by being over extended by over pressure in the nose leg or under pressure in the main gear legs then this will effect the disengagement of the centering lock.

Unfortunatly this is not a simple matter of air pressure in the legs as the oil level in the legs is critical to getting the correct rising spring rate from the leg and therefore the correct ground attitude for the aircraft to ensure that the centering lock disengages when it should.

To get the legs set up correctly you will have to jack the aircraft free of the ground and check and adjust the oil level in the legs before pressurizing the leg to the correct pressure for the variant.

It is essential to understand that just pumping up the air in the leg to get the correct extension is useless without the oil level being correct as this will not provide the correct rising spring rate.