is TCAS required

[yonygg]

Im flying an airliner and I have a question which I couldn't find an official answer for:
When I have a malfunctioning TCAS on board and I look it up on the MEL, it says that one of the conditions to dispatch a flight with an inoperative TCAS system is that:
"Enroute or approach procedures do not require its use."

And the question is: does enroute or approach procedures or regulations require its use or not?

[Roger Greendeck]

I suggest that this will depend on what country/countries you are flying in as the rules may differ from place to place.

Your company may also have a view on this which may be more conservative than your national regulator. Best check with them.

[Capn Bloggs]

Our AIP says:

Aircraft must be fitted with a serviceable Mode A and Mode C, or Mode S, SSR transponder for operations as follows:
- All aircraft within classes A, B and C airspace, and any class of airspace at or above 10,000FT AMSL.
- All aircraft, except aircraft operating to the VFR which are not fitted with an engine driven electrical system capable of continuously powering a transponder, within Class E airspace below 10,000FT AMSL.
So the answer to your question, here at least, would be "enroute prcoedures do require it's use", therefore she's a No Go item.

[PantLoad]

Don't remember....Is TCAS required for PRM approaches?

Maybe someone knows....


Fly safe,

PantLoad

[ElitePilot]

TCAS and Transponders are two different systems with regards to the TCAS its all down to the airspace being entered, MEL and company policy.
If it fails down route it maybe that you can operate back if airspace and MEL allow but you'd need to get the ATC flightplan updated that you're no longer equipped with TCAS. Some MEL's will require the chief's approval.

[Willit Run]

I've had to take the long way around India several times, due to no TCAS. You have to check each countries rules and regs.

[grounded27]

TCAS may be an MEL item but is not required under said governance, what is required mostly is your transponder so the other aircraft can recieve a solution.

[pwned]

I think, like most said, it depends which country you operating into.

Unless you have the AIP of all the countries you are going to fly over, I don't think you can answer that question (in the flight deck).

[Denti]

@grounded27, even that depends on your country of registration and operation. TCAS is a MEL item under european rules, however with a repair time of 10 days, except if operating into german airspace, then it is only three days without exemption.

[plain-plane]

Denti, has pointed out the big got'cha euro drivers face, as germany, is stricter than the other euro countries...
-but to convince ops you right, might take a few minutes of your time.:ugh:

[777boeings]

I did a North Pacific crossing to SFO of all places, with TCAS inop. Checked all the regs at the time and there was no reason not to dispatch.
However, common sense dictates that you inform everyone along the way. That's what I did, including on first contact with SFO. That way they won't instruct a low level sidestep or position you too close to other traffic.
Still ended up with a little less sleep in the bunk though!

[yonygg]

So if I don't have the AIP of the countries I'm flying to on board (which I certainly don't!), then it's an issue for the ops./dispatch department to check and decide wether the dispatch is legal or not??

[darkroomsource]

So if I don't have the AIP of the countries I'm flying to on board (which I certainly don't!), then it's an issue for the ops./dispatch department to check and decide wether the dispatch is legal or not??

Who is responsible for a complete and thorough pre-flight?

[Denti]

The AIPs should be part of your route manual. I know for sure they are in ours. And as said above, the PIC is responsible for flight preparation in most countries.

[Don Coyote]

The MEL should be tailored for your operation and should tell you in what airspace TCAS is required on your network. If your operator is unwilling to amend the MEL then get them to confirm, in writing, that TCAS is not required on your particular route. If they are unwilling to do so then don't go.

[B737900er]

TCAS is also required for RVSM.

[xtypeman]

Many years ago I had a Tristar down in Mexico with a flight back to the States. It was Easter Monday with a failed TCAS. So I spoke to an FAA official to see what could be done. After a brief disscusion he said to me "I am going to ask you one question to which you can only answer with a yes or a no". The said question "do you have TCAS fitted". The answer was of course "Yes". The said official then said that there was a percentage of the civil fleet that flew in the states in accordance with the relevant MEL but safety was increased as there was a larger number of the fleet with TCAS operating. Mind you that was back in the 90's

[500 above]

B737900er

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 67
TCAS is also required for RVSM.


Since when?

[STBYRUD]

TCAS must be fitted but can be inoperative, at least in Europe countries make their own rules whether ATC has to be informed or approval has to be obtained before flying through their airspace. Had the TCAS go bad in the 737 a few times flying across the Balkans and eastern Europe...

[Gulfstreamaviator]

I can just see the AIP Library on the average wandering G550..... maxed out just on AIPs. (who keeps them up to date, and pays for the subscription.)

Happy Christmas.

Glf

[500 above]

Not in the United States, or the NAT and PAC oceanic areas. However, Eurocontrol has mandated the carriage of ACAS II in European airspace for all aircraft over 15,000 kg (33,000 lbs) and as of 2005, aircraft 12,500 lbs and over are required to have ACAS II. Operation in RVSM airspace (excluding Europe) does not include a TCAS requirement. It does, however, require MOPS 7 software for TCAS II-equipped aircraft. That is TCAS version 7.0 software.
TCAS version 7.1 will soon be offered as an upgrade by all of the major TCAS manufacturers, and also makes two important safety enhancements. Version 7.1 changes the current TCAS II aural warning from "Adjust Vertical Speed, Adjust" to "Level Off, Level Off." It also corrects missed and late TCAS reversals. TCAS reversals were introduced in TCAS version 7.0 to adapt to changing situations where the original sense had clearly become the wrong thing to do, in particular the situation when one of the pilots decides not to follow the Resolution Advisory (RA), or is instructed by ATC to perform a particular maneuver. The solution in Change 7.1 introduces improvements to the current reversal logic to address late issuance of reversal RAs and potential failures to initiate reversal RAs.
TCAS version 7.1 also makes four other minor enhancements to the system. Version 7.1 corrects an issue when descending through 1,000 ft AGL. 7.1 also modifies the "Datalink Capability Report" (the TCAS status report sent by the TCAS processor to the Mode S transponder) to tell the systems that the TCAS processor is Hybrid Surveillance-capable. And 7.1 also allows for the transmission of the TCAS processor part number and software level, and corrects TCAS multi-aircraft logic issues which reduces the risk of "close-encounters" of multiple aircraft in RVSM airspace.
The enhancements introduced in TCAS version 7.1 proved to be significant enough to warrant mandates by both the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), and the European Aviation Safety Agency. ICAO has mandated TCAS version 7.1 by January 1, 2014 for forward fit aircraft, and January 1, 2017 for retrofit aircraft. EASA has stepped their time-table up by comparison with forward fit aircraft due by March 1, 2012, and retrofit aircraft by March 1, 2014.

So, no. It's not required to be operable - just on board. MEL's obviously to be considered...

For the Americans:

Part 91 Appendix G, Section 2, paragraph (g) is the only regulatory language that relates TCAS to RVSM operations. It states that:
"...if you operate an aircraft that is equipped with TCAS II in RVSM airspace, it must be a TCAS II that meets TSO C-119b (Version 7.0), or a later version, unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator."

[Denti]

Just buy a normal electronic routemanual subscription, for example LIDO or Navtech. Easily portable on a iPad.

[yonygg]

OK, PIC is responsible for the pre-flight, but my airway manual includes no AIPs and I really have no idea of where and how to check this and so as my airline. I flew at least twice the passing half year with an inop. TCAS. Once domesticly and once internationally. And despite the MEL's note to consider ENROUTE and approach Procedures, everyone just ignored it and the flights were dispatched normally.

Can someone refer me to, for example Greece's AIP where it says wether an operative TCAS is required in order to fly in their airspace or not?
Any other AIP wogoodbye also good.

Marry Xmas
yonygg

P.S
Denti - how much would this cost? (my airline is not going to pay for this)

[Denti]

Greece is part of Europe, and therefore European rules apply. Check out the eurocontrol webpage (http://www.eurocontrol.int/acas-ii/equipage-requirements). There's a good FAQ on that page as well.

Route manual subscriptions are something for the corporate level and should be found in your OM-C. To be honest I don't have a clue about the price.