View Full Version : Other univited guest on the F/D.

16th Apr 2001, 15:22
On the way down to JNB the other night another uninvited guest got into the F/D,fortunately this one was friendly and just wanted to look around,they were quickly removed and sent on their way with a flea in their ear.Once again though it was a 747-400,it was a night sector,it was a male african pax from W/T,and there was one cabin crew member on duty,this new incident begs the question is the 744s f/d vunerable at night,with only one cabin crew on duty who may not be able to monitor who comes up the stairs all the times(may in the toilet etc) or who is moving around the cabin and should not be there.

16th Apr 2001, 15:26
Is that one CC on duty for the whole a/c? Surely at least one of each cabin/bay?

16th Apr 2001, 18:42
Well that would definately stop them, not!

16th Apr 2001, 21:22
What airline this time? BA, SAA, Virgin or another?

16th Apr 2001, 21:45
It,s british,but I won,t say which because it would in the papers by Wednesday.

16th Apr 2001, 21:54
so, why not lock the door then ???

16th Apr 2001, 22:02
Hey, how about a bouncer outside the F/D door?

17th Apr 2001, 07:19
This has just sparked a thought.
I cant't navigate most airports without the local password even though I wear an accredited ID.
There have been times I could not board my aeroplane because I am not "local".
How outrageous then that any plonker with malign or otherwise intent can easily enter the average UK registered flight deck.
The same is true if I want to visit my terrestial headquarters. In fact I have to get an escort to see my boss.
But my management think it is Ok for any Tom, Dick or Harry to spend time in my office because it is "good public relations".

17th Apr 2001, 12:37
Careful old chap, you never know when they are watching you!!!!!!!!
Squash later this week? I'm back on thursday night, give you a buzz.


'Keep the Stress Down'

17th Apr 2001, 13:32
hmm...i can see the prob...our 744 upperdeck toilets are right up front next to the F/D door and behind the movie screen...if the CC were to prevent/guard against such incidents, they would have to escort every pax going to the loo...

as a curiousity, how many of you lock your F/D door thru out the flight?


Crashed & Burned
17th Apr 2001, 17:09
I agree. Lock the flight deck door...the facility is available and once locked it is very difficult to get in.
BA's problem is not helped by the Flight Deck Crew's insistance on tying a sock across the door lock! (Prevents the resting crew from being distrubed)
I have openly removed the offending sock on several occaisions in front of crews and have almost been physically ejected from "My Flight Deck".

Notso Fantastic
18th Apr 2001, 05:17
Well who on earth do you think you are interfering with the aircraft like this. How do you think the crew feel when they see you (a passenger) fiddling around with the FD door? The sock serves a purpose- to stop the (unlocked) FD door banging right next to the bunk unit. Quite simply the sock has no relevance to FD security and it is non of your business! If you have an issue about the philosophy of LOCKING the door, that is another matter. The BA view is that any malicious intruder can quite simply gain access anyway. It is Cabin Crew involvement that can stop it. I concur with this as a 747 pilot of 16 years.

18th Apr 2001, 12:01
Read his profile, Notso.

:) I know who he is, you know who he is, indeed the whole of our company know who he is... but I've still removed it for privacy's sake! Hope you don't mind! :)

Sick Squid, (in moderator role, not union agitator role!)

[This message has been edited by Sick Squid (edited 18 April 2001).]

Notso Fantastic
18th Apr 2001, 14:11
Shhhh! Never know who drops in here-I know we have some traitors present!
This has gotta be that dork Bus411....'the pilots friend!' haha. Too many wind up merchants- I am inclined to think we must go elsewhere where we are just professional aviators.

18th Apr 2001, 18:37
OK 6 point taken. I apologise, just couldn't resist it.

Crashed & Burned
18th Apr 2001, 20:15
In your 16 years of flying you must of seen many things that you had to question. Well in my 38 years of aircraft maintenance I too have seen many questionable things.

I will make no futher comment on this very emotive issue. I will leave it to the individual to draw his or her own conclusions.

Somebody thinks they have identified me. To prove it what is the 3rd letter of my surname? Get it right I'll be honest and confirm it.

18th Apr 2001, 21:05
Crashed and Burned

Just curious-is the sock removal thing a management instruction or are you guys just doing it independently? After the NBO incident it seemed to be missing on any a/c ex. LHR though increasingly less so now. BTW, it's a complete waste of time (yours & ours) as we'll just replace it! It's either that or no rest.

18th Apr 2001, 21:26
Banging doors?? Complain to Fleet Captain or Flight Safety Manager - get a cushioned door stop installed. Works a treat!

Sock = no security = your neck on the block when Mr Nasty decides to visit.

Crashed & Burned
18th Apr 2001, 23:06
We were advised by SOME managers to remove them.

Douglas..my sentiments exactly!

19th Apr 2001, 12:19

I was on the '400 with BA for over 10 years. The sound in the bunk area of the flight deck door being opened was akin to a gun going off! It was acknowledged by our management as a problem but a solution was not and is not forthcoming except the aforementioned sock.

The sock apart from preventing the door being shut securely looks terrible as well!

Notso Fantastic
20th Apr 2001, 01:46
Let's not forget that Upper Deck Club passengers are seated about 4 feet away from this 'socked' door. The dreaded sock actually gives them a peaceful night rather than be woken every 20 minutes by the door banging. Perhaps if maintenance people stuck to equiping aircraft correctly rather than sounding off here on issues that are not their direct concern, we would all have a better work environment!

20th Apr 2001, 04:17
someone very close to me was seriously injured on the BA 2069 Nairobi flight incident she is still off work with her injuries and may not be able to fly again. I would definately support the locking of the flight deck door, or at the very least remove the socks so that the flight crew could hear any intruder coming in to the flight deck and therefore gain precious seconds that could prevent a potentional disaster happening again.

Clever Bloke
20th Apr 2001, 11:47
I have no problem with the sock issue.
In the Tech Log you will find a list of CAA approved modifications. If the "sock mod" is listed there what is the problem?

However if there is no reference to inhibiting the flight deck door lock mechanism, the aircraft is effectively flying out of compliance and COULD, if the CAA were to enforce the ANO, negate the C of A.

If you insist on installing the sock...be it on your own head if something goes wrong.

Notso Fantastic
20th Apr 2001, 13:47
ckp747....I understand one of the cabin crew received a broken ankle in the incident. <<someone very close to me was seriously injured on the BA 2069 Nairobi flight incident she is still off work with her injuries and may not be able to fly again. >>
If this person is using a broken ankle as an excuse to whack all the money possible out of BA for this incident, and never have to work again, well that is one thing. Can you confirm the injury is MORE than just a broken ankle? Even downhill skiers are back up there skiing the following year after a broken ankle. Frankly I find it difficult to believe it is as serious as that, but if some lead is being swung here, I don't like to see it being used to influence the issue of door locking.

22nd Apr 2001, 02:14
Dear Notso Fantastic. Re your doubts about my motives for saying I was seriously injured. No I did not break my ankle, it WAS more serious than that. I am still off work and will be for some time, and have to face another operation in the future. I DO want to go back to work and am not using my injuries as an excuse to be 'pensioned off'. Obviously you have been ill informed regarding the incident and my injuries.