LUTON - 7

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Opening a new thread as suggested by the mods.:)


OLY1B

[Falcon666]

Wizz Luton-Debrecen up to 5x weekly for summer 13

[LGS6753]

Not too surprised about that. There are no other competing services from the UK and Debrecen has good access to Eastern Slovakia, Western Romania, Ukraine and the western half of Hungary.

[Buster the Bear]

With all the new development, will the MNG A330 fit?

[LTNman]

Looking at page 21 of the master plan, it shows the two existing cargo stands at an angle to each other maintaining a nice gap between wing tips as the aircraft are not parked side by side.

On page 23 with Signatures new hangar taking up a good chunk of the old cargo apron both stands are now side by side but further back and so the wing tips are now clear of the side of the cargo building.

It is hard to tell what impact these new stands will have on the parking of an A330 but it looks like both stands will still be the same size.

[LTNman]

I read in last week’s Sunday rag that Park Plaza Hotels have submitted a planning application to build a six story hotel in Airport Way principally aimed at airport passengers.

If permission is obtained this would give the airport its fifth hotel. Only a couple of months ago the airport only had two which were the Ibis and the Holiday Inn Express. These have been joined by the just opened Ramada Encore. By the end of the year the Hilton will open right next to the airports station and now this.

The company gives the expansion of the airport to 18 million passengers as a reason for the demand for more airport beds.

Find it hard to believe that the airport needs all these hotel rooms particularly with its 24 hour, 7 day a week public transport links which some lesser airports could only dream of..:confused:

[Dannyboy39]

Luton has never been a town blessed with enough hotel rooms.

Before the Premier Inn was built when the Brache restaurant was built, we had very very few modern hotels, especially close to the transport hub of the airport/parkway area.

London Luton seems to be an airport that's going places though. All good for our council taxes.

[LTNman]

Just been looking at the council’s website. The proposed hotel location is opposite the Ibis and the Encore hotels on a parcel of land that was part of the mid term car park but isolated when the new dual carriageway into the airport was built.

General location here

http://www.eplan.luton.gov.uk/plannet/documentstore%5CDC19511896-48-00015_120828_60_01_1.PDF

Detail location here

http://www.eplan.luton.gov.uk/plannet/documentstore%5CDC19511896-4-00015_120828_16_01_1.PDF

Three pages of plans are here

PlanNet - Luton Borough Council (http://www.eplan.luton.gov.uk/plannet/search.asp?authentication=LBC191006-Wg&ID=12/01006/FUL&StartingRecord=1)

As always the website is shut down each night until the following day.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Buster - I've been advised by a very reliable source that the new cargo stands can not take an A330 - the largest aircraft that will fit is an A300.

So looks as though there has been some marvellous planning by LLAO:ugh:

Whilst I expect it's a coincidence, I noted the MNG flight that normally arrives around midnight, trundling into that place in Essex this morning, albeit that it was an A300.

OLY1B

[Lee Baker Street]

For many years the over-sized freighters used any available space and that included the South stand. I have seen several 747's parked there including the Antonov AN-124.

Subsequetly last week the MNG A330 took off about 03.30 and a DHL arrived at 04.30. Maybe they won't be parking two wide bodies at the same time?

[Dannyboy39]

Surely there are wingspan issues because of the new pier? 52m max span?

According to FlightStats, the MNG aircraft is an Airbus A300-600 Freighter.

[LTNman]

Don't think the new pier will stick out any further than the old pier. Ah what about the eastern apron as they are making it a little wider?

[LTNman]

I had a look at Ocean Sky's new FBO area a couple of days ago. Still no concrete has been poured yet with not a great deal going on with the actual building.

[Lee Baker Street]

Maybe they will have to consider widening taxiway Delta by at least 20 - 30 feet and off-setting the taxiway line then that should eradicate the wingspan issue?

[LTNman]

To be honest I don’t think there is an issue. On the existing plan there is a service road that passes the end of the pier. By the edge of this road is a broken line that runs parallel to Taxiway Delta. I would think this line indicates wing clearance. On the proposed layout with the wider apron this line is still in the same place tucked up against this service road which can be used as a reference point.

Even with the apron extended the apron still does not stick out as much as this service road.

Edit

The Boeing 777 has a wider wingspan of 60.9m so I can't see the airport turning away El-Al

[LGS6753]

The revised Masterplan shows 44 commercial aircraft stands, excluding Cargo (2) and FBO apron areas. This is 15 more than at present (ref 8.6). How many aircraft currently night-stop? Am I right in thinking there are 4 Ryanair, 4/5 Monarch, 3 Thomson, 16 EasyJet and 1 Wizz? That pretty well fills the available space and limits based airlines from adding extra units. But night-stoppers could increase by 50%, meaning up to 15 more departures at the peak time, plus any first-wave arrivals on short turn-rounds (Wizz have gradually increased these to 12/13, and will no doubt go further).

Will the revised infrastructure be able to cope with an increased throughput of over 50% to its peak? :eek:

Discuss. :8

[Dannyboy39]

I think the powers that be really are trying to squeeze every last penny out of everything last crevice on the current airport site. Its a good thing, especially with the opposition towards the aviation industry, but I'm sure the airport cannot grow any further after this masterplan without extending the current site significantly.

Are we going to say, 18m pax at LTN is the absolute limit? No more development, no more growth?

When was the new pier (gates 20-25) first planned? Not that long ago. Are we really going to say that's it until at least 2030/2050?

[FRatSTN]

@LGS6753

I have never understood why Wizzair have done that. Seems really odd to have so many flights at the same time then nothing for hours. I know that Wizzair flights are not based in Luton so that's why they can, but I don't see why they choose to, surely it cant be nice for the staff, being so busy at one time and then no work for hours.

The only reason I see why they do it is because alot of the Luton routes are daily so want to operate them at the same times each day since pushing it back to the 2nd or 3rd return flight of the day for an aircraft may make departure times different each day depending on where they've flown to and from before going to Luton.

[LGS6753]

Danny,

The main problem, as far as I can see, is Luton's physical location. Whilst that is it's great strength in terms of catchment area, two very local factors are inhibiting growth:

1. The airport is operated under a 30-year concession by London Luton Airport Operations Ltd (LLAOL) but is owned by London Luton Airport Ltd (LLAL), which in turn is 100% owned by Luton Borough Council. The concession fee is partly a £3+ payment per passenger. The operator would probably be prepared to expand the airport to the south of the runway but if it did so, the focus of the operation would move out of LLAL's property, so they would be unable to collect their full concession fee. LLAL therefore have a powerful incentive to retain the airport within its current boundary, and as they control the concession, they are unlikely to award it to any company bent on depriving them of their income.

2. The southern and south-eastern perimeter of the airport is also the boundary between Luton Borough and Hertfordshire. If development land to the south of the airport was purchased for development, Hertfordshire would be the planning authority. They would be unlikely to grant planning permission to a facility that, in their view, causes nuisance (= noise) to their residents and that they have opposed for decades. The Hertfordshire County Transport Plan deliberately rejects improved road access in that part of the county, to strengthen their grounds for objection to any development.

The only way for this situation to be resolved to permit substantial expansion beyond the current airport perimeter would be either for the airport freehold to be sold by LBC to a private company which could fight Hertfordshire on national infrastructure grounds, or for government to determine that the airport is a national infrastructure asset and as such should be developed notwithstanding these local objections.

I personally can't see either of these scenarios occurring, so I suspect that development will be restricted to the current perimeter for at least the next twenty years.

[LTNman]

I have never understood why Wizzair have done that. Seems really odd to have so many flights at the same time then nothing for hours

Wizz use Luton to swap aircraft crews between aircraft so that the aircraft ends up at a Wizz maintenance base.

[LTNman]

I'm sure the airport cannot grow any further after this masterplan without extending the current site significantly.

There is still the area in the short term car park where the council plan showed a new apron and another 5 stands. The new joint master plan does not have this apron. Both plans show a new multi-story car park in the same location to each other with the joint master plan stating that it will only be built when needed. Maybe it will be needed if they put an apron on part of the car park some time in the future.

[LTNman]

The southern and south-eastern perimeter of the airport is also the boundary between Luton Borough and Hertfordshire.

That is not quite true. While part of the county boundary runs along the southern airport fence there is a large chunk of land around Someries that is part of Luton as the county boundary turns south east away from the airport. If measured the other way the land extends to the front of the new terminal.


I wouldn’t get to fixed on county boundary’s as these can be moved. Once upon a time the county boundary ran along the start of the runway at the 26 end. The ILS and airport fence was in Herts but this was changed years ago. If you look at an OS map you can see how the relatively straight line of the border now goes around the airport and not through it.


http://imageshack.us/a/img703/1223/boundary.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/boundary.png/)

[pabely]

God, what a busy little airport we were again today, would those nasty A&B liners go somewhere else so the VVIPs can park somewhere!!!

Does the Master plan cater for 50% growth across all airport users? At this rate the additional 15 stands will be taken up by Global's Legacy's & Gulfstream's alone!

[LTNman]

No it doesn't and it looks to me that Biz jets will be squeezed. Signature will end up with a smaller apron than it has today. No plans and nowhere to expand Harrods. Maybe RSS Enterprises will end up with more apron as it only rents one or two stands on the South Apron at present.

It might be the case that initially biz jets will just overspill back onto stands 16 and 17 as not all stands will be needed for passenger aircraft until maybe a few years’ time but the difference will be that instead of Signature picking up the income from parked aircraft the money will go the airport providing the biz jet owners are prepared to pay the rates. One of the big moans at Monarch was the cost of parking aircraft that was in for maintenance as parking charges apply after 2 hours.

While Luton piles biz jets in nose to tail TAG aviation at Farnborough has no such problems. If they ever get permission to expand their opening hours you can see where many aircraft that would have liked to use Luton will end up.

[boeing_eng]

If they ever get permission to expand their opening hours you can see where many aircraft that would have liked to use Luton will end up.

Its very unlikely Farnboro' will be allowed night movements in the short term. When the current phased increase in movements to 50,000 by 2019 was agreed to on appeal, the noise considerations based on the restricted opening hours formed part of that agreement.

Its not uncommon to see Farnboro' based aircraft at LTN at weekends and evenings because of this:ok::ok:

[Buster the Bear]

LTNman, amazingly at times Farnborough also has issues with a lack of parking available.

[LTNman]

Worth reading the master plan for Farnborough then. They want to go from 28,000 movements to 50,000 movement but say the airfield can handle 100,000 movements with no major changes to its infrastructure.

http://www.tagaviation.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=e6s3XzqUOg0%3d&tabid=60

[pabely]

Farnborough will increase over the years, it has the space but the locals will stop the full plans.
Luton picks up quite a few based aircraft as it does from City at weekends.

Lost oppertunity?

[LGS6753]

Was Luton represented at the Route Development conference in Abu Dhabi this week?

[boeing_eng]

Worth reading the master plan for Farnborough then. They want to go from 28,000 movements to 50,000 movement but say the airfield can handle 100,000 movements with no major changes to its infrastructure.

50,000 annual movements has already been approved but will not be reached until 2019 as the increases are being phased year by year until then.

Plenty of very powerful NIMBY's around Farnboro' will ensure night movements won't happen there:=

[LTNman]

New report states that after Heathrow Luton is the best location for a 4 runway airport.

The Press Association: UK needs four-runway airport: study (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5jKrHDknm4Mg43Q5wfa6jbiMNU5xQ?docId=N004187134935548175 4A)

[ericlday]

Heart failure at LADACAN !!!

[Lee Baker Street]

I heard on the radio this morning that Luton should extend its runway! Why spend up to 80 Billion pounds on a new airport when for a few hundred million pounds Luton could easily alleviate Heathrow congestion!

Both LADICAN and HALE members must be 'imploding' on the news.

[LGS6753]

This is the full document:

http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/bigger%20and%20quieter.pdf

Makes interesting reading - far too sensible for the likes of LADACAN and politicians!

[ericlday]

Luton 2002 Masterplan expanded/modified to 4 runway Airport.Who has the money to carryout this project ?

[TSR2]

Interesting reading indeed.

£20bn cost and the closure of Stansted with appropriate financial compensation. Can't see that happening and would it really solve the problem.

[Falcon666]

Highlights what we already really know.
LTNs catchment area,ease of access and STNs poor geographical location.
Wonder what this might do for STNs price tag in the immediate future.
Guess MAG have been asking these questions already but will they just persist( with Ryanair help of course)in getting passengers to use STN by lowering costs ?

Nice that outsiders have seen the potential at LTN which we have been talking about for ages!

[pabely]

With Luton Airport being on top of a hill it is non-runner for such a plan. Would have to move county boundary again as Herts is south and would love to get a piece of the pie.
Let Luton expand within its limits and live in peace with its Essex neighbour.
The best oppertunity was lost in the 70s with a plan in Bucks. UK plc will suffer in long run.

[ericlday]

Come on Pabely lets have some enthusiasm...we have got used to life on the hill....was a problem many moons ago pre cat3 ILS days. Its not beyond mans capability to move a bit of earth around to fill a few holes and make a level playing field (not talking about Kenilworth Rd) But guess you are right probably will never happen, at least in my life time.

[pabely]

In China or Middle East it would be possible but in blighty it will not, move such amounts of earth to get a structred hub, all these trips by lorries & diggers, the greens would have a field day!
I was suprised at St. Pancras International when last visited, we can do it if the will is there but railway hubs are very different from airport hubs (but should they be so?).

[LTNman]

There is no hill but just the flatlands if you look south. It will never happen but as the report states Luton is in a better location than most London airports.

[Dannyboy39]

Having just read the executive summary I conclude it is ome of the most delusional reports Ive read. Its total garbage; Id expect better from 'the UKs leading think tank'.

[Falcon666]

Dannyboy39
So which aspects are you particularly unhappy about?
The assessments of all the London airports are pretty realistic but we all know it's unlikely to happen and LHR will eventually prevail

[Dannyboy39]

To be fair, I only read a snippet in my lunch break. From what I've seen, this report is a pointless exercise. I do wonder if any of the people who wrote this have ever been to Luton and have a modicum of local knowledge, or even aviation knowledge?

Luton is probably one the best locations - that's where the sense ended. If Cublington went ahead instead of Maplin Sands, that would've been the best location for an airport. But, 40-50 years later, that was never built and we have a thriving "small" airport just around the corner.

Luton will never have four runways. The economics, physicality, politics simply won't allow it. Its not even close to being sustainable; it just doesn't make sense at all. Heck, the airport abandoned plans for 2 terminals/runways 5 years ago, when the economy was at its height and UK air travel was at its peak.

The physicality simply won't allow it. Where would these four runways go? Even extending 08/26 to full length is problematic enough! An option in the 2002 White Paper was to build a diagonal runway parallel with East Luton/Cockenhoe which was dismissed out of hand. A runway 500m south of the current one was favoured.

I was unimpressed when I saw the plans from Future Luton Optimisation some months ago, however this collaboration from the council fills me with optomism for a sustainable LTN.

PPRuNers have been shouting from the hills for many a year that the expansion of Heathrow is the only option, as well as utilising existing capacity. I've stated many times, I'm highly sceptical about the forecasted rapid passenger growth through London. And a plan such as this, or the radical Thames Estuary plan would mean that Heathrow would have to close, crushing the economy of Hounslow, Hayes et al.

[Lee Baker Street]

I agree with LTNman that south of the runway the land is in deed flat as I have walked it dozens of times. I have also considered that the runways might have 09/27 headings which would allow aircraft to fly south of Stevanage and just north of Caddington but enroaching a slight new area of south Luton homes.

We can only dream that such an expansion would come to Luton but now we have to hope that Stansted is never considered for they might want to close our airport instead!:ooh:

[Dannyboy39]

Having just read the report in full, I definitely haven't changed my mind. The Heathrow plan has some merit (although I certainly don't agree with the closure of T4 or the existing runways, but the Luton plan is totally ridiculous.

Proposing the demolition of Luton Hoo would be disastrous for the town - one of the few things that makes you proud to be a Lutonian. The DLR-type service from Tring and Stevenage would be a total waste of money.

Maybe this is just to troll the Harpenden residents? :ok:

Also the report's plan to limit noise at all times, by effectively banning B747-400s, B777-300s, A340-600s, A300s, A310s are totally ridiculous and should never happen.

More pie in the sky as building an 80,000 seater football stadium by the M1 on stilts so an F1 track could go round it.

[Buster the Bear]

4 Runways at Luton, BLIMEY! 'Arpenden and Snoorbans will sign up for that!

Air Blue start soon.

[LGS6753]

I thought Air Blue was a figment of Wikipedia's imagination???

[Buster the Bear]

Well, they said they were starting the route, then denied it citing a 'hack' of their Facebook page, then this appeared

airblue Studies UK Growth Options :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/36/the-hub/161780/airblue-studies-uk-growth-options/)

And on their Facebook page it says "It clears that Airblue might start thrice weekly Islamabad or Lahore to Birmingham service with A340-300.

It also says that the current Istanbul route would be served now to Islamabad-Istanbul-Luton which is very sure according to our sources."

Make of it, what you wish.

[Level bust]

Would have thought Luton's runway would be to short for an A340-300 long haul. They seem to use a lot of runway when I've been on them! And before anyone says it I'm not that overweight!

[FRatSTN]

No the A340 cannot operate long haul passengers flights from Luton's runway because it's too short. The plans are is that the A340 would fly to Birmingham and Manchester direct. The Luton route would stop in Istanbul and will be operated by an A320, which can be easily operated from Luton's runway.

Seems a bit silly I think. Would make much more sense to fly the A340 into Stansted or Gatwick and if not possible to fly them all on A340's due to lack of A340 aircraft top operate them all or whatever, then surely the Birmingham connection should be the A320, not London!

[Buster the Bear]

I guess it all depends upon yields and catchment areas. Luton operation (if it happens) will be the A320 that currently routes to Manchester. This is being replaced by a direct A340 leaving the A320 available for route development.

Gatwick are always on the 'look out' for large aircraft operators, but rumour has it, the sub 100 passenger aircraft types are falling out of favour with their airport authority? I was speaking to a chap recently that could be affected by a base move.

[gilesdavies]

Sorry to disappoint Buster...

But if you look at the date on the article, it is the 6th September and that was when the rumour mill started, and the articles appeared on their Facebook Page and Wakipedia.

Since Air Blue quashed any rumours of routes to Birmingham or Luton, it has ben very quiet. Cannot find any newer news articles and if the airport was getting a long haul route, their press office would be going into over drive.

[Buster the Bear]

A round of honey sarnies if it happens then!

[LTNman]

The Luton route would stop in Istanbul and will be operated by an A320, which can be easily operated from Luton's runway.

Was there not a similar operation a few years ago when a feeder aircraft took passengers from Luton to some Northern European airport where they transferred to a larger aircraft that took them to Pakistan? Seem to remember it only lasted a few weeks.

[FRatSTN]

Yes there was by an airline called "Swe Fly" which no longer exists, which had the IATA code of "WV". It operated via an airport in Sweden where passengers did change to a larger aircraft that took them onward to Lahore.

[Lee Baker Street]

Don't forget that the LLA 'Further public consultation' will be held today at the Hat Factory between 3 and 7.30pm.

[TBSC]

SweFly used Fokker-50s to take passengers to NYO (Stockholm Skavsta) where they switched to a B-767-200.

[LGS6753]

This is a video representation of the proposed improvements:

3D and Motion graphics video for Luton Airport new terminal proposal - YouTube

[LTNman]

Is that not the old video that came out in the spring/summer as it does not show taxiway foxtrot which was added as part of the councils proposal

[LGS6753]

LTNman -

You might be right :O

[Buster the Bear]

This new dual carriageway, I have heard it is to be named Buster the Bear Way. A good choice of name!

Spot the spelling mistake on the label?

http://i46.tinypic.com/29pusep.jpg

[LTNman]

You're not the only bear in town. This one is still waving the flag for the opening of the airports railway station.

I see that concrete is finally now being poured for Ocean Sky’s new apron.

http://imageshack.us/a/img198/5781/p1030130e.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/p1030130e.jpg/)

[Buster the Bear]

I am outraged, Imposter the Bear!

[Level bust]

Better looking though. Hope you enjoyed your afternoon's entertainment.

[LTNman]

London Luton (http://www.airport-business.com/2012/10/london-lutons-master-plan-for-a-bigger-better-airport/)

Report goes on to mention that Wizz Air has secured an average annual growth in passengers at Luton of 39% over seven years

[Dannyboy39]

Something to silence the doubters...

while the airport saw 8.9% growth in passenger numbers in 2011, it reduced carbon emissions by 3.1%.

[Buster the Bear]

Carbon emissions will increase if I catch Imposter the Bear!

Mr Bust, I did after 85 minutes!

Luton still not loaded into the Airblue booking engine........looks like Buster is finally BUSTED!

The spelling mistake on the wine label....come on...Terminal....should have been Tinminal!

[LGS6753]

September figures:

Passengers (month): 940,835 (+0.5%)
Passengers (rolling year): 9,600,198 (+2.1%)

Air Transport Movements (month): 6,790 (+0.2%)
Air Transport Movements (rolling year): 71,934 (-0.4%)

[Dannyboy39]

I assume the reason why taxiway echo? is closed is because of the new private apron?

[LTNman]

NOTAM

NW OF TWY ECHO BTN E1 AND E2 DUE WIP THERE IS AN OPEN DROP 50CM
DEEP
AND 5M ACROSS. SLOW TAXI REQUIRED THROUGH PORTION OF WORKS, FOLLOW
ME AVAILABLE ON REQUEST.
CREATED: 11 Oct 2012 11:02:00
SOURCE: EUECYIYN

Thought I saw a Wizz facing echo after being towed off stand yesterday at around 8:30 so it was open then.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

50cm? Not being funny - that's a fair old drop for an aircraft wheel to go over if I am not being an idiot and imagining it wrong?

[LTNman]

That's at the side of the taxiway that extends for 5m along what was once grass.

[Level bust]

Unless things have changed while I'm on leave, Taxiway Echo does not close until after the outbound Wizzair rush, between 0830 and 0900.

[pabely]

Nice to see someone in Herts wanting this...
Stevenage council backs Luton Airport expansion - News - The Comet (http://www.thecomet.net/news/stevenage_council_backs_luton_airport_expansion_1_1662401)

How that will place the local MP as he covers Harpenden as well, time will tell?

Next the approval of the proposed A505 route from M1 to A1(M) as once suggested? Could bring vital jobs and place more businesses relocating local rather than people communting to London.....

[LGS6753]

The MP for Stevenage is Stephen McPartland. Stevenage is a marginal seat that covers the town of Stevenage. Stephen McPartland "opposes the [airport's] expansion plans".
The MP for North East Hertfordshire is Oliver Heald. NE Herts is a safe Conservative seat and includes Letchworth, Baldock & Royston as well as much of rural east Herts including Buntingford and almost as far east as Bishops' Stortford. Oliver Heald is more concerned about fighting Stansted expansion, and favours "Boris Island".
The MP for Hitchin and Harpenden is Peter Lilley. This is also a safe Conservative seat; the name describes the area. On his website, Peter Lilley says he wants to "limit" Luton Airport expansion.

[Buster the Bear]

Mr Bust you are on leave so much, by the time you return there will be four runways and a road named Buster the Bear Way!

[Level bust]

Along with a statue of you outside the terminal, sorry tinminal!

Never mind life will be one long leave soon.

[pabely]

LGS6753, sorry it was a loaded statement on how the local councils may just be starting to see things different from the local MPs.

[LGS6753]

Pabely,

Sorry, didn't wish to sound pompous. You certainly have a point that the MPs are viewing things differently to the councils in Hertfordshire.

Divide and rule!

[pabely]

No not at all, just councils are nearer to the ground than westminster, they are the ones who approve planning applications and have to deal with local business.

[Dannyboy39]

I gather the pressure group's claim that Luton Borough Council decide on a planning application, on err.... LBC's own asset, is not the case?

[LTNman]

I see that Google street view has been updated at the airport and now includes the CTA. In the view work is about to begin on Ocean Sky's new FBO.

[boeing_eng]

Concrete is now finally being poured for the new Ocean Sky ramp.

The old Britannia Admin building was also recently partially demolished around here.....Plenty of airport history disappearing recently:hmm:

[LTNman]

Half the building was only knocked down last week with the other half staying. I was going to take some photos this weekend but I am away. I will post some next week when I am back home.

[boeing_eng]

http://i48.tinypic.com/344bc4w.jpg

Here you go.....taken when the grabber was in action! The building has been pulled down as far as the entrance area (8 windows to the left)

[Buster the Bear]

So when was that originally constructed?

[Lee Baker Street]

I recal visiting the Britannia building verious times with my father who would collect his wages. That period was about 1976/1977 so the building was there then.

Some of you may recall the large Boeing 737 model on show in the 1st floor window with the models top removed and showing the cabin interior?

[pabely]

OMG! Who has submitted these plans, not the council or the operator....:rolleyes:
Heathrow battle: How Luton could be (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/heathrow-battle-how-luton-could-be-englands-airport-8224387.html)
Or just a way to sell newspapers?

[Lee Baker Street]

Pabely,

No one can deny Luton is best positioned and with so few homes around this site- south of the current location why shouldn't Luton be considered?

We have M1, M25, 4 train tracks and only 21 minutes by fast train from London west end.

The only thing I would change is re-aligning the 4 runways to 09/27 headings then Stevenage would no longer be direct under the flight path!

[pabely]

Yes I agree 09/27 would be much better but hits some other villages but between Stevenage & Welwyn. This only has a chance if Herts & Bucks get on-board (and a slice of the profits).......assuming LBC remain as leasor?
The additional of M1/A1(M) full link and further railway upgrades to bring easy access from west & north is a must.

It's all pie in the sky though!

[Dannyboy39]

Is that really Luton I'm looking at in the picture?! :oh:

Supposedly the Evening Standard is a "quality" newspaper, but some of those comments are disgusting. :mad:

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Dannyboy39 - Isn't the Evening Standard just reporting (albeit somewhat after the event) the report that is referenced in post 31 and debated by many in subsequent posts. Or am I deluded??:confused:

[LGS6753]

This seems a very similar proposal, but the source quoted by the Standard is a design company, whereas the original report was from a think-tank.

[LTNman]

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/402/1080746921.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/525/1080746921.jpg/)

As can be seen 4 new runways south of the existing runway on the flatlands of Hertfordshire. So that’s 2 proposals now in less than a month. Artists impression taken from above junction 10 of the M1

[Buster the Bear]

Green runways - nice!

[ericlday]

Existing runway for bizjets, using revamped terminal exclusively for corporate paxs ?????????

[LGS6753]

From Travel Mole:

Monarch allows extra bag on board scheduled flights

Monarch has increased its hand baggage allowance from one to two bags in response to customer demand.
From 1 November, passengers can carry up to two pieces, for example a cabin bag and a handbag, or a small overnight bag and a laptop bag.
But the two bags together must still not exceed the dimensions of 56cm x 40cm x 25cm and a weight of 10kg.
On board, one of these items must be placed under the seat in front whilst the other can be placed in the overhead locker.
New gauges will be installed at airports to help passengers check their baggage is within the size range.
The new allowance applies to all of Monarch's scheduled flights, except those departing London Luton Airport where only one item of hand baggage measuring 56cm x 40cm x 25cm may be carried due to airport operator regulations.
The hand baggage allowance for Monarch charter flights (those with a flight number beginning MON) remains unchanged at 5kg and the dimensions should not exceed 56cm x 40cm x 25cm.
"Our passengers have told us how important it is for them to be allowed two items and, working with our airport partners, we have been able to change our policy to suit them," said Kevin George, Monarch Airlines MD.

What's that all about? :=

[LTNman]

Only one piece of hand luggage per person can go through security at Luton as 2 pieces takes twice as long to pass though the X-ray machine.

[LTNman]

Luton 2006 plans but with 2 runways.

1 is the existing CTA
2 was the proposed drop off terminal
3 was the proposed new terminal


http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/1234/4runways.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/4runways.png/)

[LTNman]

October snow! Can't remember that happening before.

[Dannyboy39]

2008 - LTNMan. I remember it well, going to an LTFC game and being abandoned after 7 minutes.

[LTNman]

Photo taken looking across what was the flying club building and car park.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9126/p1030134t.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/p1030134t.jpg/)

Taken from what was the old green hangar

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7757/p1030136k.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/507/p1030136k.jpg/)

Britannia's old building has been filled in on the ground floor and gained a canopy.

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1511/p1030140i.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/p1030140i.jpg/)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1143/p1030138p.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/p1030138p.jpg/)


Ocean Sky's other apron has been redesigned

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/9739/p1030146xw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/p1030146xw.jpg/)

Was Buster's friend also having a look?

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2701/p1030148i.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/p1030148i.jpg/)

[Buster the Bear]

Imposter the Bear! A limited cull is required!
Great images LTNman, looks like quite a lot more apronage to park bizjets?

Interesting use for the old 'Pizza Hut'!

[LTNman]

I guess it won't be long before the 10ft high wooden sound barrier fences go up thus cutting off the views from landside of these aprons forever.

[easy]

Bring back the flying club!!!

[Barling Magna]

Exciting times at LTN. Good luck with the developments, hopefully just in time for the eventual improvement in the economic cycle. The five runway scheme looks somewhat fanciful; what's the chances of a second runway, do you think....?

[ericlday]

A full length single runway would help.

[Buster the Bear]

Full length runway needed?

Why, has it shrunk with all the rain this year?

[Level bust]

It looked the same length when I took off on it this morning!

[Buster the Bear]

By the time you landed it was 2ft shorter!

[Alloy]

A proper full length taxiway would be a good start! The length of the runway can be restrictive for some services.

[Lee Baker Street]

Alloy, had the runway have been extended years ago, then I am sure the airport would have surpassed the 18 mpa figure already!

I estimate (from Google Earth) that perimeter fence to fence from each end of the runway there is approximately 9000 feet. Surely with a bit of landscaping they could extend the runway to at least 8000 feet? This would leave runway 08 end to still have a stop area, and 26 end to have a ramp built containing the lighting system and being used as a stop way (if ever required)?

The difference of 1000 feet could make 787's viable?

[Alloy]

There are many runways that are built on not the most forgiving topography, (Funchal/Madeira on stilts, Huesca on top of earth terraces both spring to mind), where there is a will there is a way to get around the constraints of the topography that would open up other posabilities but the lack of a full length taxiway indicates there is not a will.

[gilesdavies]

Alloy, had the runway have been extended years ago, then I am sure the airport would have surpassed the 18 mpa figure already!

Really???

While airports like Stansted may have achieved this figure, it is nothing to do with the runway length.

I've just plucked a figure out of thin air, but I would say about 98+% of their traffic could be serviced from a runway the same length as Luton! Especially when you consider both airports are currently operating the same sort of traffic. Low cost carriers which operate 737 and A320 family aircraft, and charter traffic up to 757 size...

Stansted does have a healthy cargo business that attracts MD-11's and 747's, but there is no more than a handful of them a day. The rest being A300's, 737, 757 and 767, which LTN can already serve.

The long haul traffic STN has attracted in the past was Continental with a 757 to Newark, which could easily operate out of Luton. Bristol has a shorter runway that LTN and they use to host a similar service a few years back.

The other long haul traffic, has been and gone and couldn't be sustained, for example Air Asia X service to Kula Lumpa with a an A340-300, and American Airlines to Chicago with a 767-300 (which with some restrictions could operate from LTN).

Luton would have the same issues with Long Haul traffic as Stansted does.

Birmingham is in the process of extending its runway to 9-10,000ft. They are hopeful this will attract further long haul routes. I'd be interested to know who that is, which cannot already utilise their existing 8500ft runway?

Emirates and PIA already operate 777-200/300's from the existing runway. The only candidate I can think of is, Emirates upgrading to the A380. But an extra length runway just for their use, seems a little extravagant.

If other airlines want to operate further distant routes, I would expect these to be opened up with 767/787/A330 which could all operate from the existing runway.

[LTNman]

I agree with gilesdavies. For the amount of money it would cost in building the extra length I can’t see them getting their money back in the short to medium term or even the long term. As it is most aircraft now depart from the intersections and don’t even use the full 2160m.

Luton does not have the space to increase the size of the cargo stands so the cargo airlines would not use a longer runway very often and I can’t see that much if any demand from the airlines to operate long haul passenger services as there isn’t that much demand from Stansted.

[Buster the Bear]

The performance of the 787 makes long haul a possibility, but not with APD being so high. A parallel extension to each end and more stands will enhance the hourly movement rate especially with Stansted in mortal decline.

Whoever buys Essex International is going to have some hefty interest repayments over the longer term!

[Dannyboy39]

I estimate (from Google Earth) that perimeter fence to fence from each end of the runway there is approximately 9000 feet. Surely with a bit of landscaping they could extend the runway to at least 8000 feet?

What difference would a 2,500m runway make compared to the existing 2,160m runway? Not a lot to be honest. The benefits don't outweight the costs.

-Monarch could possibly start operating some A330 services? Or whatever long haul aircraft they could lease in the long term?
-Thomson could operate a couple of B787 services? Although I thought the purpose of the B787 was to operate from a wider range of airports with bottlenecks such as this?
-easyJet, Wizz Air and Ryanair certainly aren't going to operate heavy aircraft types anytime soon. Definitely not Flybe.
-El Al operate B777s occasionally. Won't require a full fuel tank anyway. I doubt El Al would want to be operating their B747s out of Luton.

A bigger issue is probably wingspan restrictions.

[LTNman]

A bigger issue is probably wingspan restrictions.

Would think anything too big would go on to the South stands. No problem there in parking a couple of 747's at the same time, as they have done it already in the past.

Even with the proposed new extended taxiways that almost reach the end of the runway would the runway rate be any higher if they went right to the end of the runway as next to nothing would backtrack.

[Dannyboy39]

The South stands aren't exactly ideal though are they? Not yet anyway until they extend a pier that far south. Its a lot of bussing around to the main terminal; one of the masterplan's cornerstones is to increase the number of contact stands. (I also don't understand why the airport hasn't put at least 6 airbridges on Pier A and plan more on the proposed Pier B).

Thomson and Monarch for instance may want to make use of their Boeing Goldcare arrangements by doing heavy B787 maintenance in H60, H127 and H61 rather than at some of their outstations.

[muckers]

Hi all, first poster here. mainly because having just flown to Lanzarote from Luton i think it was not the greatest of experiences.
The staff bless them try but the whole place seems so glum. I last flew from there over 25 years ago and whilst i know time passes it seems to have stood still there. Yes lots of parking in an awfully laid out long term park. Uninterested bus driveres at pick up points. Slow passport control.
I could go on. My feeling is that Luton is what it is. A rather hamstrung badly thought out below par airport and nothing short of a total re think will cure it......sorry.:(

[pabely]

All Goldcare work will be done in Manchester, I think.

[boeing_eng]

Thomson are no longer enrolled on the Goldcare program for the 787

[Dannyboy39]

FAO Muckers... That's an original thought!

In all seriousness - If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys! I doubt many other airports in the UK are much different.

[LTNman]

The South stands aren't exactly ideal though are they? Not yet anyway until they extend a pier that far south

The pier is not going to the south stands. When the new pier is extended to south of the eastern apron passengers will be bussed from there.

[easyflyer83]

In all seriousness - If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys! I doubt many other airports in the UK are much different.

I can't stand that term. Those that spout it don't usually have a clue about what people are actually paid. It could have something to do with the hassle some employees get these days simply for trying to do their job.

[Dannyboy39]

I can't stand that term. Those that spout it don't usually have a clue about what people are actually paid. It could have something to do with the hassle some employees get these days simply for trying to do their job.
In fact I do. Passenger Service Agents (ie. the people that sit behind the counter at check in), earn a flat £7.27ph and work 6 on, 3 off, almost always unsociable hours. Many of the employees are in their first job and have no previous aviation knowledge or experience. Although when I had that, they still weren't interested!

It was probably wrong of me to blame just the employees; the employers must take some of the blame as you could perceive a minority to be hostile. And as a contractor, you're under constant pressure.

[compton3bravo]

Well Muckers if you thought Luton was bad then you haven´t been throught the port of Dover lately (I know it is not an airport). It is like going on one of those ghost trains that used to be at seaside resorts years ago with so-called UK Border staff peering out and looking into vehicles as you drive through at 5 mph (two grey haired seniors in a Spanish registered car). Perish the thought what our continental friends think of it.
On a side passed the new airport at Castellon on the way - very impressive but no sign of any activity I´m afraid.

[Buster the Bear]

Oh dear, some bad news from Essex!

Stansted passengers numbers down | Anglia - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2012-10-29/stansted-passengers-numbers-down/)

[vintage ATCO]

No problem there in parking a couple of 747's at the same time, as they have done it already in the past.

From memory the top of the tail penetrates the 1 in 7 transistional slope.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

Seems as though the www.london-luton.co.uk (http://www.london-luton.co.uk/) website is down at the moment as it's 'just' been registered for a customer... I wonder if that is Luton Airport or some money making sharpwit! :E

[Falcon666]

Hellas Luton- Volos starting next year?
According to the guys on the SEN thread it's been confirmed!!

[ericlday]

Website back to normal......I also experienced same as ImPlaneCrazy.

[LGS6753]

Website still off-line. Oops!!

[ericlday]

Working OK for me......even here in Tenerife !!!

[muckers]

Its not that the staff have a problem i think the place causes the problem.
The whole airport area seems to be a conglomoration of add ons and plug ins, that at the time were probably very much needed but as we all know there is a time when you cant add any extras, its then you either say we are what we are or start again.
Yes I live within a mile or two of SEN and I have been a keen advocate, but it wont get bigger, it wont compete for heavy jets, it cant because it is what it is, a bright new local airport for the south east.
Luton should care that it may lose short haul to them, the flying public will learn that the airports feel and focus is as much part of the flight as being in the air, and lets face it we spend as long in the terminal as we do in the air in a lot of cases.:)

[Dannyboy39]

Hellas Luton- Volos starting next year?
According to the guys on the SEN thread it's been confirmed!!
Just noticed this is a brand new startup. Good luck!
What bank in Greece gave them the funding!?

[LTNman]

Welcome muckers, we are a friendly bunch here even to our friends at Southend.

Luton has no option but to carry on and modify what it already has. Southend had the luxury of finding an unused part of the airfield next to a railway so it could start again. For Luton to start again it would mean shutting down the terminal and moving it with its aprons and would take a couple of years.

Next year will see the start of building work to expand the airport by a further 8 million passengers. Hopefully by the time it is finished it will meet with your approval.

I have no doubt Southend will reach 2 million, most of that seems to be coming from Stansted, with a little bit of new business and maybe a tad from Luton. As with all airports what Southend gains it can also lose.

Despite all of Luton’s issues it has something on its side. It is called location, location, location. Together with a public transport system that operates 24 hours a day the airport is very easy to get to.

[TSR2]

What bank in Greece gave them the funding!?

What makes you think they got funding from a bank in Greece ?

[Powerjet1]

Easy seem to have Mykonos & Olbia as new routes from Luton, commencing April & May respectively. Both twice weekly.

[muckers]

Thanks for the welcome LTNman, must day i did wonder what you would say. ive seen and read a lot of your posts on the SEN thread.
I'm not saying the place should be written off and i do think SEN were rather fortunate to have what was effectively a clean sheet to start with.
I just feel that luton seems a bit like an old west country fishermans cottage where bits are added as the family grows and before you know it you sleep in the basement and bath in the loft next door. In short Luton is a bit all over the place, and just not very pleasant;)

[LGS6753]

Nice to see new destinations from EZY, but these flights will no doubt be at the expense of other routes.

[FR-]

No it will be using the a/c that night stopped in dortmund.

fr-

[LTNman]

muckers wrote

In short Luton is a bit all over the place, and just not very pleasant

I know what you are saying. I have lost count how many times the airport has been upgraded over the years.

A good example are the steps down to the departure gates on the main apron as they face the wrong way. This is because passengers used to walk to the gates from the old terminal now they come in from the opposite direction from the new terminal and have to turn around to descend the steps.

Aesthetically the terminal frontage will improve when they build across the bus station so the old terminal frontage will mostly disappear.

There will also be a major reworking of the inside of the terminal bringing passenger screening downstairs and the almost doubling the number of lanes. All the landside shops bars and eating areas will be moved to the new build at the front of the terminal. Airside will get new seating areas plus many more shops.

[Dannyboy39]

I haven't been down there since the top floor was put in the Tinminal, but I do hope the Gates 1-10 area is completely refurbished, both externally and internally, as part of the Masterplan.

[LTNman]

Muckers wrote

ive seen and read a lot of your posts on the SEN thread.


There is a big difference between the Luton and Southend threads. We are a bit more friendly here as you can say what you like without the personal attacks. If people disagree here then it is debated in a mature way.

We might not always agree with what is said but all views are respected.

[runway08]

No more Aer Stobarts Lingus Arann Regional flights into LTN from tommorow.

[compton3bravo]

I think you will find the service does not finish until 6 January 2013 so a little time yet Runway 08.

[j636]

El Al Increases London Luton Service in Summer 2013 Peak Season | Airline Route – Worldwide Airline Route Updates (http://airlineroute.net/2012/11/05/ly-ltn-s13/?utm_source=twitter%2C%2Bweibo&utm_medium=social%2Bmedia&utm_campaign=tweets121105)

[pabely]

Time for Flybe to step in?

[Buster the Bear]

Am I right in thinking that the Waterford route has been operated since the Suckling era?

[irish laddie]

Flybe would be nuts not to go twice daily on WAT-LTN. None of the other Ireland-London corridors have seen passenger numbers decline like WAT-LON after the Southend experiment. SEN is a fine facility but for the south east Irish market it's just the wrong location and imperfect public transport. No reason why WAT-LTN can't hit 10k passengers a month again by Summer 2013.

[NABLAG]

Buster even before that, Ryanair Hs748s and ATR42s.
And who can forget Euroceltic with F27s.
Its a well proven route and perhaps someday in the future when Aer Lingus mainline push Aer Arann aside, Aer Arann might lament dropping a route that worked very well for them.

[EI-BUD]

Ryanair last served Waterford with ATR42s (even EI BYO was FR machine), it ended August 1992. BA Express then came in operating a daily J41 on Stansted route...That was Manx Airlines at that time as far as I can remember...

[ericlday]

What is the likely hood of another airline picking up the LTN - WAT route ?

[LGS6753]

I'm hearing whispers about Turkish Airlines A310Fs.

[ericlday]

As long as they are day time operations, otherwise they will need to 'whisper' on departure to keep Ladacan quiet !!!!

[22/04]

Confused of Milton Keynes. If the loads on LTN-WAT are viable why are Arann pulling it?

Don't think Flybe will step in - isn't the Dash 400 a big capacity leap.

Unless thy use Sucling/Logan 328s.

[EI-BUD]

If the loads on LTN-WAT are viable why are Arann pulling it?



My estimation would be that there are bigger opportunities ex DUB for UK provincial routes, furthermore statement from Waterford airport makes reference to the fact that RE are selling an aircraft (may mean returning one to the lessors, not sure), though the route was always in terms of pax a good one on LTN and SEN had improved alot, yet as many commentators have said LTN was a well developed market for the Irish travelling home.

Airlines wont take any chances with new routes that may be perceived as soft by those airlines, the fact that the Q400 is that much bigger than ATR may in itself be a deterent, I only hope that WAT doesnt go the way of GWY.

[LTNman]

Confused of Milton Keynes. If the loads on LTN-WAT are viable why are Arann pulling it?

They probably weren’t but would have been if the route hadn’t been split between 2 airports. Passengers wanting to fly from Luton to Waterford today would have to wait until Thursday so are forced to use Southend or find another way of getting there. Seems they are finding another way to get there.

[Lee Baker Street]

I always recall reading this story and was surprised by the departure of Aer Arran from Luton. I think we need a new carrier to take over what proved to be popular and sucessful flights for a very large local Irish population.

Irish carrier Aer Arann (http://www.justtheflight.co.uk/airlines/RE-aer-arran-flights.html) has announced that its route between Luton Airport (http://www.justtheflight.co.uk/cheap-flights-from-LTN/destinations.html) and Waterford (http://www.justtheflight.co.uk/cheap-flights/WAT-waterford.html) carried 9,106 passengers last month - a cross-channel record for the airline.
The 9,000 passenger mark was surpassed again on its flights between Luton and Galway (http://www.justtheflight.co.uk/cheap-flights/GWY-galway.html), with overall passenger traffic on the route up by 30 per cent compared with August 2006.
Aer Arann started the Luton-Waterford flights four years ago and boosted flight frequency on the Luton-Galway route three times a day on four days a week last May.
"This news is a great follow up to last month's announcement that August 2007 has been the busiest ever for Aer Arann since the airline began operating commercial flights from Waterford Airport in 2003," commented Colin Lewis, head of sales and marketing at Aer Arann.

[runway08]

Right you are compton, I got it in My head it was 6th of November. :ok:

Surely someone will step up onto the route. Someone smallish, Manx2 with a DO228? Eastern with a J41? New startup who smells an opportunity..

[sawtooth]

Manx2 brand not likely to do well in Ireland since ORK crash, failed to make any traction on new services before quick pull out last year.

[runway08]

Fair point, I guess I just mean an operator of that size would probably make a better go of it with slightly smaller equiptment. Alot of other people seem to mention Flybe with the DHC8.

Could be a nice little earner for one of the smaller guys.

[LGS6753]

Is BMI Regional a silly suggestion for LTN-WAT?

[Ernest Lanc's]

Is BMI Regional a silly suggestion for LTN-WAT?

If Aer Arron could not make this route work, no other airline could.

As for Manx2 - Forget any other reason, they are not really for LTN-WAT...

I am surprised that Aer Arron has not made this route seasonable though, or has pax been to low throughout the year?..Also IMO Aer Arron would have been better using either LTN or SEN, not both for this route.

EDIT: Silly me, Aer Arron have pulled out of WAT, so the above is irrelevent.

[Dannyboy39]

On another note, bravo El Al who have nearly doubled their services out of Luton, utilising an extra B737. They seem very committed to this route, considering they have a couple of B744s going out of Heathrow every day.

[Shamrogue]

Even if the Q400 operated light........surely she's not that much more expensive if any to operate than an Atr.
DID RE operate the route with 72's?

Shamrogue

[runway08]

Ernest I dont really understand your point about if Aer Arann couldnt make it work nobody else could. They are one of the worst run airlines I can remember at LTN in a long while. When they finaly got things up and running properly they ruin the London route by moving it to the coast of england. Passengers flying over their destination only to back track to it in cars/trains all for the sake of stobart...

[Ernest Lanc's]

Ernest I dont really understand your point about if Aer Arann couldnt make it work nobody else could.

Aer Arann split the route as you know....But in the end neither SEN or LTN have benefited at the others expense. The route should have been left out of LTN. AA have pulled out of WAT, in any case.

I wonder if Easy could use WAT as a filler route, like jet2 do with Belfast from BLK?.

Passengers flying over their destination only to back track to it in cars/trains all for the sake of stobart...

No: It did not make any sence at all.

[LTNman]

I would think that the Waterford- London service would be too thin for an Airbus but I guess it is all down to the fares charged.

[pabely]

As the recent USAF C130s departing via SIG flight plans, I assume the experiance at LTN was alot better than Mildenhall!! Arn't these guys VVIPs anyhow on what the do? :ok:

[LTNman]

I was wondering why the C130's were at Luton. Maybe they were picking up some of the towns taxi drivers for a free holiday at Guantanamo Bay.

[Buster the Bear]

LTNman, I nearly choked on my honey sarnies and I still haven't stopped laughing!

[pabely]

I think you will find they were supporting the troops in Middle East. Don't they deserve a little R&R in London b4 going back to US?

[boeing_eng]

Hmm...I bet whoever emptied the toilets on the C-130's at Signature found it an "interesting" experience compared to a Gulfstream or Challenger! :eek::eek:

Buster....I think they are called Honey Buckets!:}

[pabely]

You never know, they might have stopped off to see if their jobs were safe from today after the US elections, rather than sitting in a shack in Suffolk!:mad:

[runway08]

Some shots of both the hercs departing if anyone is interested.

Flickr: Gian Gian Gian's Photostream (http://www.flickr.com/photos/giagiagian/) :ok:

[Falcon666]

It appears that the El AL news is much better than first thought.
According to their press release from March 2013 they will return to a daily x Sat 767 year round ( plus the extra 737 flights for the peak summer)
They obviously don't want Easy to take over on the route without a fight!
Means on many days next summer there will be four flights to TLV - 2 Easy and 2 EL AL

[davidjohnson6]

I understand that the new Hampton hotel near Parkway station is due to open on 27 November - i.e. 18 days from now.
Does anyone have any information about a possible opening date of an exit from the train station to Kimpton Road without walking a mile along Gipsy Lane / Windmill Road ?

[pabely]

Their web site does say 27th November but no details of Parkway exit.
It looks great value if flying from Stansted, only £2 bus fare or a £5 taxi fare to Heathrow. I suspect that the Luton airport passengers won't get a look-in! :}.

[LTNman]

COMMITTEE:
DEVELOPMENT CONTROL
DATE:
20TH OCTOBER 2010

The proposal is for the erection of a seven storey building comprising a 188 bedroom hotel and 1,897 sq metres of B1 office space together with 231 parking spaces. There will be a temporary pedestrian link from Luton Airport Parkway Railway Station across the site to Kimpton Road, which will remain in place until such time as the adjoining Stirling Place development, which provides a pedestrian link to Parkway Rail Station, is completed.


The Stirling Place development includes a new pedestrian/access link to Parkway Rail Station and the layout is designed to facilitate the provision of a bus link to the rail station boundary. As such given the sustainability of the location it is considered that the proposed parking provision is acceptable.

It was part of the planning permission for the hotel that a temporary route will be provided so I would have thought it must open no later than the opening of the hotel. The hotel is located to the right of this artists impression of the yet to be built Sterling Place

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5408/lutonairportparkwaynewe.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/lutonairportparkwaynewe.jpg/)

[Level bust]

I noticed while I was standing on platform 1 yesterday morning that there is a footpath from the hotel leading to door straight on to platform 1. Don't know what you do about tickets as the ticket office is the other side of the 4 tracks!

[LTNman]

Think there is a ticket machine in the small building that contains the entry and exit barriers

[LGS6753]

Movements Oct 6491 (+ 0.4% YOY)
Movements Rolling yr 71880 (- 0.6%)
Passengers Oct 862009 (- 0.3%)
Passengers Rolling yr 9597003 (+1.6%)

Not such a good month - any ideas why?

[LTNman]

Take away the Eastern Europeans who use Luton and those figures would be close to halved.

With over 860,000 passengers using Luton in October I would not call those figures bad as the airport is still operating close to capacity.

[compton3bravo]

Don´t forget half-term school holidays were split this year running into November as we noticed here in Southern Spain but now unbelievably quiet - OK for us residents but not for business I´m afraid. It will be interesting so see if the November passenger figures show any increase.

[Lee Baker Street]

Gatwick London City Luton
Aberdeen
+15%
+2%
- 20%
Belfast International
+5%
N/A
+5%
Edinburgh
+5%
+0.01
+1%
Glasgow
+12%
+10%
-0.01
Isle of Man
+14%
+13%
- 32%
Jersey
- 7%
+17%
+7%


why has Gatwick and London City performed (overall) better than Luton in relation to domestic flights for October? In addition Luton was once a main link to Ireland, but we seem to have lost almost all connections. Why?

[Lee Baker Street]

My apologies for the previous entry, I thought I could copy and paste a small spread sheet.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

In answer to your last question, a lot of the flights to Ireland were moved by a certain Irish "gentleman" to Stansted.

Luton still has flights to Dublin, Knock and Kerry plus Waterford until 6th January.

OLY1B

[ericlday]

TOM012 LTN - SFB recently departed. Whats that one doing ? (Don't say its going to Orlando)
Sorry its vaguely a spotter question but I was just curious.

[pabely]

I don't really know but my best guess is a connecting cruise charter flight.

[gilesdavies]

Movements Oct 6491 (+ 0.4% YOY)
Movements Rolling yr 71880 (- 0.6%)
Passengers Oct 862009 (- 0.3%)
Passengers Rolling yr 9597003 (+1.6%)

Not such a good month - any ideas why?

I am pretty sure some of easyJet's summer schedule and Thomson's charters ended at the end of September or early October.

Especially to the likes of the Greek Islands and also Wizzair end their seasonal flights to Dubrovnik and Split at the start of September.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

Was speaking to a couple of old Menzies acquaintances the other day, and they tell of whispers from a certain Asian airline that used to operate the other side of the M11...

[Dannyboy39]

Wingspan and length of the A333 too big for LTN isn't it? Their A332s don't arrive for another 2 years.

That's Air Asia X, I assume you're alluding too.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

Hmm not entirely sure, what version of the 330 do MNG operate?

And yes you'd have it spot on :E

[saggst]

MNG operate the A332

[MikeyMoo]

It was a positioning flight to operate the tom013 SFB-lgw, the aircraft has just come out of maintenance and was due to operate lgw-SFB with no pax as last flight of the season on this route

[ericlday]

MM Thanks for your help

[pabely]

Aren't the A333 & B777 very similar and El-Al have no issues operating shedules into LTN?

[boeing_eng]

I'd be very surprised to see Air Asia back in the UK.....

They couldn't make it work at LGW after vacating STN for the simple reason the fares had crept up to close to the full service carriers and passengers voted with their feet (even if it meant a stop in the Middle East)

Air Asia withdrew from Europe (and India) completely in late March.....

[ImPlaneCrazy]

pabley,

If I am right in saying it's the 772 that El Al operate then I think it's actually a couple of feet bigger than the A333! So shouldn't be a problem size wise (I have no idea on runway lengths however and distances...)

[pabely]

I agree, if this rumour is correct, it will be LTN runway length which is the big factor, but perhaps if true, it might not be a non-stop service to Malaysia, they have routes to Turkey, but I'm just speculating?

[Dannyboy39]

Boeing 777-200 Specifications

Span - 60.9m (Max span some sections of LTN 52m)
Length - 63.7m
Takeoff Distance at MTOW MSL - 2,530m (Tel Aviv does not require full fuel tank; LTN at approx 550ft amsl)

Airbus A330-300 Specifications

Span - 60.3m
Length - 63.7m
Takeoff Distance at MTOW MSL - 2,500m

Fair enough - didn't realise the A333 is almost identical in its specs. The image on Wikipedia is deceiving!

How much fuel (and ie. runway) would an A333 require to get to Malaysia, or would a stop over in Istanbul be required?

Re: The LTN-SFB positioning flight - bloody hell that's a long one as positioning flights go!!

[LGS6753]

Forget Air Asia X and start thinking MNG 330Fs....

My sources tell me sooner rather than later.

[Falcon666]

Begs the question with Signatures new hangar using up half the Cargo area , it's only going to take one MNG 330 and it's full unless they start using the south stands!
Believe next week is the first date that the planning application can be submitted for the expansion( I read it in one of the Hertfordshire papers so it must be true!!)
Shall watch the LBC site with interest.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

But MNG have already put their 330F into LTN?

[ericlday]

TC-MCZ departed LTN on 21/9.
There is a video on the tube ''mng cargo a330 blt2012 dep ltn 21-09-2012''

[LTNman]

mng cargo a330 blt2012 dep ltn 21-09-2012 - YouTube

[LGS6753]

Yes, more of those.

I did notice that the MNG A330 had a bulge above the nose gear - not noticed that on other 330s - looks a bit like a Soviet-era Tupolev. :eek:

[ericlday]

Only applicable on Freighter versions......something to do with getting a level floor for loading...no doubt techies will give a proper explanation.
More info-
To overcome the standard A330's nose-down body angle on the ground, the A330F uses a revised nose undercarriage layout to provide a level deck during cargo loading. The normal A330-200 undercarriage is used, but its attachment points are lower in the fuselage, thus requiring a distinctive blister fairing on the nose to accommodate the retracted nose gear.

[Buster the Bear]

I have just had a White Elephant move in next door!


http://i50.tinypic.com/e8o61h.jpg

[LGS6753]

Thank you Eric.

That's interesting.

[nt639]

Buster Is this thread not supposed to be about Luton Airport, not Juvenile spotterish posts to further your own agenda.

[Aero Mad]

Buster Is this thread not supposed to be about Luton Airport, not Juvenile spotterish posts to further your own agenda.

What's life without laughs for heaven's sake?! Grow a sense of humour or you'll expire far too prematurely. IMHO Buster the Bear has every right to post relevant pictures of his furry counterparts :ok:

[pamann]

Buster it might just be worth taking note of what has been said in the SEN thread. Time to get over your dislike of Stansted and 'grow up' as your posts are getting tired, pointless and childish not to mention far from funny. :rolleyes:

http://www.pprune.org/7527320-post1395.html

[boeing_eng]

Blimey.....You STN fanboys need to lighten up!

[pamann]

Pot, paint & kettle :ok:

[FR-]

Boy and girls, can we just keep it to airlines, LTN and routes. At this rate we will get the standard telling off from the mods, and have the thread closed.

fr-

[Falcon666]

Summer timetable now loaded.
Prague now down to daily from twice daily this year.
Split returns 3x weekly but 0800 am dep for peak.
Lublin goes twice weekly plus third flt for peak on Thursday.
Ljubljana carries on through the summer 3x wkly

Looks like no overnight a/c next summer and the late night Bucharest moves to a more convenient 2030 dep
Wonder if any new destinations will be announced or has the expansion finally come to a end?

[LTNman]

I think I am correct but no doubt I will be corrected if I am wrong. At the moment there are restrictions on Romanians and Bulgarian working in the UK. Under EU law these restrictions are soon to be lifted. I think we can expect a large influx of new arrivals from these counties and no doubt Wizz will bring more of them to Luton.

Also in 2013 Croatia joins the EU so there is another opportunity for migrants to come here.

[Dannyboy39]

Talking about the EU; I'm going to put another spin on it.

There are many Lutonians (and many many more nationwide) that believe the UK should leave the EU immediately. The reasoning behind it, probably due to inward migration.

Surely leaving the EU would be disastrous for London Luton Airport; the most important business in the town?

[LGS6753]

Surely leaving the EU would be disastrous for London Luton Airport

Flights to Eastern Europe would be less well patronised, certainly (depending on the new status of EU citizens working in UK). However, the general UK economy would improve rapidly due to reduced regulation and lower taxes, so UK citizens would have more disposable income.

The Airport's profile would change to its historic one - a departure point for UK travellers. Other airports would be similarly affected.

[compton3bravo]

Regarding new Wizz routes both Arad and Craiova come on stream next year so I would think Luton will be served from both airports in due course. Maybe some of our Wizz friends can tell me why noboby seems to fly from Constanza on the Black Sea coast. Memories of the 1970s when numerous IT flights were operated.
Regarding leaving the UK IMHO leaving would be an unmitigated disaster for the UK in terms of exports etc. (the Commonwealth doesn´t want us any more) plus travel. I know most Brits seem to think Johnny Foreigner is a bit of an ogre but having lived in Spain and travelled around Europe on the whole they are much more friendly than the stuck up Brit. They have different priorities - family, food, enjoying life not rushing round at 1,000 miles an hour and don´t give a s**t about anybody else. Nobody does coffee on the go - stop and have a cup and relax for 10-15 minutes.

[ericlday]

C3B
Similar life style here in Tenerife, no rat race here just a tortoise crawl.
With sun to enjoy in the leisure time.

[LGS6753]

C3B -

Exports to the EU would not stop if we left the EU. Trade would, in all likelihood improve as our cost base would be lower with less regulation and lower taxes. We would also be free to set our own terms of trade with other countries. The EU needs our import-hungry markets far more than we need their regulations and surplus workers. As for relaxing coffee breaks - look what that attitude has done for Greece, Spain and Italy - all pretty well bankrupt.

On leaving, the UK would retain some commonality with the EU, such as low tariff barriers, open skies agreement, etc.

On the whole, benefits a-plenty for the aviation industry.

[compton3bravo]

Sorry to disagree with you LGS6753 about exports. Why did you think all the foreign car manufacturers set up base or bought ailing UK companies - to that they could export to the EU. That would all change if the UK left -which I don´t think it will. Also must disagree about the people of the countries you mentioned - not there fault - bankers and politicians - where have I heard that before. How would you like it if you lost 20 per cent of your salary every month when it is not your fault.
Do you honestly think all the East Europeans would return back to their own countries if the UK left the EU? What would happen if Turkey joined - 80 million and then Russia - OMG!
Just an aside just been to Gibraltar and while I was there filled the car up with petrol at 98 pence per litre unleaded and 95p for diesel. Carry on rip off Britain.
Notice that easyJet has the European flag on its aircraft and not the Union Flag - they know where there bread is buttered!

[LGS6753]

C3B

I don't think we should clog up the Luton thread but would be happy to continue the discussion by PM if you wish.:ok:

[boeing_eng]

The restrictions on Romanians and Bulgarians having free access to the UK labour market will be lifted at the end of next year (unless something changes!):oh::oh::oh:

There's plenty of them here already though and most have exploited "self-employed" loopholes (I'm sure most of us have a car wash not far away staffed by these nationalities!)

[airhumberside]

If we left the EU we would possibly remain in the single market/EEA. A look at Wizz Air's route map to Norway should tell you a lot ....

[PhilW1981]

Another thread populated by small minded little Englanders.

[LGS6753]

Another thread populated by small minded little Englanders
If you want to hurl insults at the majority of the UK population who are sceptical of the EU, please do it elsewhere.

[LTNman]

I think you will find Phil that the majority of those Small Englanders love their country which has been sold to the Devil. While Luton airport has clearly benefited from EU policies I would say that most of the population has not.

Looking at the smaller picture no doubt we will celebrate new routes to Eastern Europe when they are announced from Luton. Not sure about the big picture.

[DaveReidUK]

Looking at the smaller picture no doubt we will celibate new routes to Eastern Europe when they are announced from Luton.

And a good thing too, there's far too much hanky-panky goes on aboard aircraft nowadays.

[LGS6753]

Ryanair returning to serve RAK 4x per week from February.

[Buster the Bear]

Good news about Morocco. Lots of other interesting rumours circulating about increased business for Luton. As I am enemy No1, I will refrain from posting until I get confirmation. Still smarting from Air Blue!

My door is always open to Stanley Stansted. I am consistently there to help those in need, just ask Pudsey!

"Oh grow up Buster".........I did and didn't like it!

[runway08]

What month do Adria re-commence flights.. Is it a Spring/Summer only thing?

[Powerjet1]

They are not coming back, since Wizz is operating the route year round.

[LTNman]

I see that Monarch which recently vacated one of its hangars at Luton is to build a new hangar at Birmingham. The airline has said that it will create up to 300 jobs at Birmingham Airport with the development of a new hangar and engineering facility that is large enough to accommodate two Boeing 777-300ER aircraft. It has also said that there is the likelihood of the project creating a further 150 jobs at a later stage.

[gilesdavies]

I see that Monarch which recently vacated one of its hangars at Luton is to build a new hangar at Birmingham. The airline has said that it will create up to 300 jobs at Birmingham Airport with the development of a new hangar and engineering facility that is large enough to accommodate two Boeing 777-300ER aircraft. It has also said that there is the likelihood of the project creating a further 150 jobs at a later stage.

I think easyJet also made some announcement a few weeks ago about creating a huge hangar at Gatwick for their engineering there.

Its a real shame to see these airlines, which HQ is based at Luton, moving facilities away to other airports. Unfortunately it seems to be the norm for all of them Monarch, Thomson and easyJet, where they now only have administrative HQ and the vast majority of their ops are from bigger airports like LGW, MAN and BHX...

The problem with Luton is very much space, and the aging hangars, which don't necessarily meet today's requirements.

Where the likes of Birmingham have a whole lot of space of the western side of the runway, where the old terminal was based and has very little use.

[runway08]

Well maybe if they all move away we can level the hangars and build a bazillion more stands for executive jets. Just kidding of course, Would make more money that way though no? hehe

[LGS6753]

It is certainly the case that numerous airlines have started ops at Luton and diversified away as they have grown. I suspect that is inevitable - there simply isn't enough traffic (or space) at LTN for 38 Monarch aircraft, 48 (ish) Thomson, and 200 plus EZY!

It suggests Luton's a good place to start up though. (forgetting Court Line and Debonair)

[LTNman]

Thompsons and many other IT companies deliberately reduce demand at Luton and other airports in the southeast to push up demand at Gatwick by charging such high supplements when comparing comparable flight times.

While those local to Luton will often pay the supplements many others will head south and save a few hundred pounds. As already mentioned a while ago a neighbour of mine who lives not a mile from Luton flew from Gatwick to save a small fortune.

[pabely]

Hampton by Hilton budget hotels Luton (http://www.bighospitality.co.uk/Venues/Hilton-Worldwide-opens-fifth-UK-Hampton-by-Hilton-hotel-in-2012)

[LTNman]

They charge customers £12 to use their car park.

[boeing_eng]

Thompsons and many other IT companies deliberately reduce demand at Luton and other airports in the southeast to push up demand at Gatwick by charging such high supplements when comparing comparable flight times.

Market forces & matching supply and demand...It goes on everywhere (not just in aviation!:eek:).....Thomson (no p!) have no problem selling their program from LTN so they are hardly reducing demand!!:}:}

[pabely]

Being a big user of TUI Thomson flights from Luton, they must average >90% all the time. I'm sure if they based another frame they would have no problem filling it - is it just the travel agent arm discounts LGW?

[LGS6753]

They charge customers £12 to use their car park.

If that's for a fortnight, I'll have some!

[compton3bravo]

I would think it is per day or maybe an hour!

[Buster the Bear]

One of the iconic voices in the tower will sign off for the last time after lunch today. Well done Mr Bust!