LUTON - 7

[pabely]

Four runways again! What report, the same old one from months ago?

Alarming report says North Herts villages ?should be wiped? for Luton Airport expansion - News - The Comet (http://www.thecomet.net/news/alarming_report_says_north_herts_villages_should_be_wiped_fo r_luton_airport_expansion_1_2327413)

[davidjohnson6]

Yawn - a bunch of architects who seem to focus on underground / metro stations sent in a submission to the Airports Commission, along with a bunch of other people with their own ideas.

Somebody else submitted an idea to the commission to say that Heathrow should have 7 runways, but don't see anyone taking that idea seriously either. The 4 runways at Luton makes a good headline for a local paper though !
BBC News - Four unusual blue-sky ideas to solve airport capacity (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23612511)

[LGS6753]

It's a report dated last October by an independent firm of consultants. I think it shows the (lack of) calibre of the airport's local detractors that they've only just found out about it.
Or is it just another "silly season" story designed to sell newspapers?

For what it's worth, there is absolutely zero chance of this proposal being taken seriously, much less implemented.

[pabely]

I just thought it was funny that the Comet thought it was news, once again, it is always by one reporter and is not actually news.

[LTNman]

Some nice photos taken 75 years ago at Luton once you have got past the advert.VIDEO: Large crowd and VIPs as Luton Airport opens - Nostalgia - Luton Today (http://www.lutontoday.co.uk/news/nostalgia/video-large-crowd-and-vips-as-luton-airport-opens-1-5370894)

[LTNman]

I had to use the short term car park last week and parked for 1 hour 20 minutes, the cost was £11. Not content with fleecing me for the price of a curry I then also picked up a £1.35 handling charge for using a credit card.:{

Once in the terminal I needed to go on-line at £5 for up to one hour. It seems that Luton has the joint highest terminal internet access in the UK.:sad:

Just glad I did not need a £2 trolly.:yuk:

[ericlday]

Do they charge a pound for a pee or a euro for a urination ?

[crewmeal]

LTN and other airports are determined to make your flying experience as unpleasent as possible as soon as you arrive in order to fleece you for ridiculous charges.

[carousel]

Stansted Wi-Fi FREE for the first hour

[pabely]

I have never paid for Wi-Fi at Luton, just search for open networks and log-on :)
Can't remember which network it was as I use so many at different airports.

[Powerjet1]

Routes Online reporting that TAROM will commence a twice weekly LTN-IAS on 27 Oct.

[FRatSTN]

Yes and bookable on TAROM website.

Flights will operate on Tuesday and Saturday with a 737-300.

Brace yourself for the flight times:

RO395
dept. IAS @ 21:30
arr. LTN @ 22:55

RO396
dept. LTN @ 23:45
arr. IAS @ 05:05

[davidjohnson6]

Did Tarom use 2 of their 14 weekly slot pairs at Heathrow as a short term experiment to see how Iasi would fare with the intention of eventually moving it to Luton anyway, or did Tarom originally believe that it might be worth running a full Heathrow-Iasi service ?

Separately, does Tarom have the cost base to profitably serve a LTN-IAS route where the passenger base is largely price-focussed, especially when Bacau with Blue Air is relatively nearby ?

FRatSTN - Tarom to Iasi may have antisocial flight times... but then it's the same with Blue Air to Bacau. Until Baneasa closed, Wizz also had some grim timings to Bucharest

[FRatSTN]

Blue Air to Bacau through the winter is decent timings. 3 of the 4 flights per week are around 16:00, the other leaves around 09:00.

Even now, only 3 of the 5 flights per week have the antisocial times leaving at 01:05. There's still 2 flights a week that leave at 10:40.

I don't expect it really to reduce TAROM's performance of the route though, I was just saying that the times are not great.

Bacau is still 2 hours from Iasi by road. There's little competition with no alternative choice for direct flights to Iasi from the UK, so people will just have to like it or lump it I suppose.

[gilesdavies]

Great to hear about TAROM and Iasi!

But just to add to the party, Luton have announced on their website a further three East European destinations with Wizz Air, starting this winter:
Donetsk, Ukraine
Kosice, Slovakia
Craiova, Romania

Luton must be becoming, one of the most well connected airports in Western Europe with Eastern Europe!

Fly to the ?City of a Million Roses? from London Luton Airport - London Luton Airport (http://www.london-luton.co.uk/en/news/5/247/fly-to-the-%E2%80%9Ccity-of-a-million-roses%E2%80%9D-from-london-luton-airport.html)

[sxflyer]

Was it Iasi that was inviting bids to serve Luton, or was that another Romanian airport?

[Nyerp]

Sibiu were looking for airlines to fly specifically luton-sibiu, not heard anything since July

[LTNman]

More lost jobs as the never ending supply of Eastern Europeans move to the UK to take low paid work, pay next to no tax due to their poor wages and swamp the maternity wards with their new babies that we will have to educate.

[runway08]

Ridiculous post to be honest mate. :rolleyes:

[LTNman]

Maybe so but if you catch the airport staff bus you will be lucky to hear English. Uncontrolled immigration is causing real problems in many parts of the UK but that has nothing to do with this thread so I will end it there.:mad: :oh::oh:

[pabely]

Are, the Tarom Il-18's would be nice.....3 at once a few years ago now!

[davidjohnson6]

pabely - I think you're *really* pushing it to expect Il-18s any more - even airlines in places like Somalia have finally ditched their Il-18s now. I can't think of any airline anywhere in the world which uses Il-18s in ordinary commercial passenger service any more.

Face it, sad though it is to say, when Tarom turn up at Luton, it's going to be with a B737 or (if you're lucky) an A318

[pabely]

Sorry, just flew down memory lane of them sitting on the ponderosa (as it was called then). A school/student charter if memory serves me right? I have a pichure as I'm sure others do as they came in on a few saturdays I think.

[Buster the Bear]

I was told today that Sólyom (Falcon) Hungarian Airways will commence ops from Luton in October.

[pabely]

So that's 6 flights to Romania by Wizzair, 2 by Blue Air, 1 by Tarom (maybe more to come), have EZY & RYR missed the boat with new EU members?

[pabely]

Obviously Luton will be a feeder for the 1M passengers to China they say they will fly in the future:E

[pabely]

No-one took the bait..

YR-IMG Ilyushin Il-18V Tarom Luton, UK - 11th February 1989 Back in May 1975 three LOT Il-18's arrived in Dublin on football charter flights as Poland were playing Ireland. Unfortunately I didn't own a camera at that time but this scene at Luton 14 y (http://www.andrewmartin.eu/Ilyushin/Ilyushin-Il-18/21975050_64Z3S9/1939492814_h87XrX2#!i=1939492814&k=h87XrX2)

[Dannyboy39]

So to summarise...

New Routes - Winter 2013-14
Venice - easyJet (A319/A320)
Sharm el Sheikh - Monarch Airlines (A320/A321)
Iasi - TAROM (B737)
Skiathos - Thomson Airways (B737?)
Craiova - Wizz Air (A320)
Kosice - Wizz Air (A320)
Donetsk - Wizz Air (A320)
Budapest - Solyom Hungarian Airlines (B737) - To Be Confirmed?

Terminated Destinations (not including seasonal routes)
Thessaloniki - Thomson (B737?)

Net Routes (+7) - That does seem bloody good in the current financial climate, the London airport competition, the taxation and the 'holiday airport' tradition Luton seems to have. The airport certainly shouldn't rest on its laurels; plenty more markets can still be served.

Anything I've missed? Any more rumours?

[pabely]

I do hear of more to come next year, but not from UK based airlines, but isn't that what Luton needs....

[LGS6753]

It's interesting that two recent arrivals - Tarom and El Al - both continue with their LHR operations alongside LTN.

Presumably they are looking for London slots at (much) lower costs than LHR, fewer ATC delays, quicker turn-rounds, and are not bothered about interlining traffic. They get good surface access, and slots are available outside peak times.

Makes one wonder if anyone else is thinking along the same lines....

[LTNman]

El-AL fares usually don't seem that much different from Heathrow compared to Luton.

[Buster the Bear]

Just remember that AENA factor! And the good folk within marketing at Luton that strive to deliver and maybe now might get some parental support?

AENA Vs MAG is going to be an interesting battle!

The Falcon Hungarian info came from a reliable source. At Hurn today a 737 in their colours was towed out after paint minus the engines.

[LGS6753]

From an FT blog:

Hungary: Wizz takes aim at new airline | beyondbrics

Solyom Hungarian Airways, the new Hungarian airline that is promising to serve 96 destinations with a fleet of 50 jets by 2017, has barely launched its website, let alone a fully loaded aeroplane – before coming under attack.

And from an unusual source: Wizz Air, a low-fare airline in Central and Eastern Europe, is normally a low-key player when it comes to commenting on rivals – certainly it eschews the headline-grabbing verbal fireworks associated with Ryanair. But a statement by Wizz on Thursday was a little more spiky than usual.

Despite it’s position that it “usually does not comment the activity of competitors…. as the development and the future of the Hungarian civil aviation is important for the airline, we decided to share the thoughts of our experts with the public,” Wizz declared, stressing that, with Solyom still firmly on the tarmac, it preferred only to discuss “general questions raised in connection with the current initiatives.”

The problem with new airlines is that the vast majority “never take off or go bankrupt within a few years. Bankruptcy may occur when these companies are not able to pay their bills and one of the critical service providers decides to pull the trigger,” said Wizz.

Indeed, Wizz Air itself needed “tens of millions euro in equity or equity-related financing forms to financially handle the initial period” and this was “at a time when the European economy soared and the oil price was half of the price of today.”

In the current economic climate, and with higher oil prices, and with “much stronger competition” between airlines, the need for start-up capital is even more acute. “Those who do not have the sufficient capital investment have no reasonable chance of being one of the few that won’t go bankrupt within a few years,” and many have done so, intoned Wizz.

Then there is the question of leasing older aeroplanes – Solyom has said it plans to lease six Boeing 737-500 aircraft in August, planes described by one aviation consultant as “old, noisy and very fuel thirsty. ”

Wizz Air argues that what it termed “an outdated fleet” raises questions in relation to “operational reliability and efficiency. A 20-30 year old aircraft has much higher maintenance costs than a new aircraft,” which in turn “further weaken competitiveness.”

So far, so fair? Perhaps. But was the rival carrier not going too far with this final salvo?

True, Solyom has been cagey about its financial backers. It says has concluded agreements with two strategic investors, an unnamed “tourism enterprise,” registered in Oman, and a “well-capitalised investor with extensive international relations,” registered in the United Arab Emirates.

But is it just “protecting the interests of passengers” when Wizz puts pressure on the national airline authorities to dig into Solyom’s finances? Wizz Air is hardly a neutral third party in all this – it will face increased competition if, and when, the new carrier takes to the skies.

Solyom Hungarian Airways didn’t comment on the Wizz Air statement. Beyondbrics also put this question of impartiality to a Wizz Air spokesperson, who replied:

“We have been inundated for two weeks with statement requests on Solyom. Over the past few days most of these requests morphed into queries related to general policy, general market dynamics and general industry expertise, yet clearly we could see the motivation behind these queries was Solyom. To satisfy the media, we decided to draw a bottom line on this issue and share an expert opinion, of which I am sure that it is equal to expert opinions that can be collected from other sources… [this] remains the same regardless if you have Solyom in mind, or TAP or Tarom.”

[davidjohnson6]

In October 2012, OLT Express began flying from Southend. Southend management actively promoted Easyjet, but did not seem keen on OLT Express and seemed to make great efforts to minimise any public association with OLT Express. In January 2013, OLT Express went bankrupt.

There has been much comment on the web as to whether Solyom is likely to be credible. Given that so many commentators seem to doubt Solyom's plans, is it really a good thing for Luton airport if Solyom starts selling tickets from a hill in Bedfordshire ?

[LGS6753]

mmmmm...

who can forget Sky Europe, Debonair, Ciao Fly, Silverjet, etc.

The comments I've read are very skeptical about the credibilty of Solyom. Apparently they intend operating a "premium service" (non-loco) on 20-year old 737-500s.

Of course they won't get into LHR (or even Gatters at the times they want) so I wouldn't be surprised to see them up on the hill.

[Buster the Bear]

Ex (ages ago) Braathens in full Falcon livery at Hurn today. Mind you, no engines, but they can be added later. Been sat there for over two years looking for a new operator, so maybe lease deals from Aircraft | BBAM Aircraft Leasing and Management (http://www.bbam.com/aircraft) are good value?

[FRatSTN]

Of course they won't get into LHR (or even Gatters at the times they want) so I wouldn't be surprised to see them up on the hill.

Yes because we all know that Stansted couldn't possibly be an option don't we?:rolleyes:

[Buster the Bear]

Only stating what I was told from a reliable source.

London Luton is known as the arrival airport for the London area by Wizz passengers (and we know how long their operations lasted in Essex!).

[pabely]

I suspect Luton is the choice of East European operations because of RYR in Essex. This is something MAG will need to address if it hopes to attact new airlines.

[LTNman]

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1128/dz55.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/545/dz55.jpg/)

Looks like they are looking to replace Malev with 110 seats in two cabin classes, 12 in business, 98 in economy. I would have thought Gatwick would be a big contender for the London route as they are looking to squeeze more aircraft movements into their airport.

[canberra97]

Solyom Hungarian Airlines initially stated they intended to start ops into LGW from BUD.

I cant find any information that states their intention to fly from LTN.

[TBSC]

They did not specify any airport yet only announced that London is to be served as one of the first 4 destinations. Rumor has it had the'd fly to LCY with RJ-85s (the hungarian media is playing with the idea amongst other nonsense).

[LGS6753]

July CAA stats show ATMs down 0.3% and pax up 0.4% (monthly) and -1.3/+0.5% respectively for the rolling year.

Stansted still in decline, Edinburgh closing quickly.

For Luton, the future looks a bit brighter with various new Wizz routes this winter, Tarom, and the return of the fifth Monarch airframe next summer. The main problem is capacity - the new owners need to get their skates on and push forward with their development plans.

As AENA were a party to the original plans, presumably they will continue with the published proposals rather than going back to the drawing board.

[Buster the Bear]

My info came from Hurn.

[nt639]

According to Which, LTN bottom

Which? reveals the best and worst UK airports - August - 2013 - Which? News (http://www.which.co.uk/news/2013/08/which-reveals-the-best-and-worst-uk-airports-330453/?intcmp=HP.hero.large.1.wcunews.bestandworstairports.aug17)

Luton airport bottom

Which? members who passed through Luton airport on their travels were typically not so impressed with their experience. The UK’s fifth busiest airport achieved a customer score of just 43% for the overall airport experience, scoring two out of a possible five stars almost across the board, including its speed of check-in, passport control queues, airport design and its toilets.

Which? members described Luton airport as ‘dark and gloomy’ and ‘poorly designed and poorly signed inside and out’.

[Dannyboy39]

Hardly surprising that airports with less passengers and excess capacity and more space will have a better passenger experience.

The bottom line is every year 10m people use LTN (and the other two LHR terminals in the bottom 3 process approx 30m? every year).

[LGS6753]

It's hardly surprising that the top and bottom three are those listed. The top three are lightly used, and in the case of SEN and DSA, modern facilities.

The bottom three are overcrowded and not user-friendly. All three are on small, limited sites. They have all suffered a severe lack of investment over the years.

In Luton's case, that is due to its unusual ownership model which caused lack of proper investment by the Council during its years of operational ownership, followed by restrictive bouts of short-term investment since. Because of the franchise model, operators will only invest at the beginning of the franchise period for sound commercial reasons. The dead hand of council ownership prevents the operator from planning any extension outside the airport boundary, despite the wishes of the market.

[EcamSurprise]

I travel through airports all around Europe most weekends and by far my worst consistent experience is always in Luton, particularly security and their attitudes.


If there is a way of getting to my destination by avoiding Luton, I will.
And that opinion is shares by the majority of m colleagues.

[Falcon666]

Well hopefully the new operator will listen to this report and the criticism that will come from it.
At least the only way now is up and it will be interesting to see what AENA does!

I personally have had no problems using the airport but I respect people like Ecamsurprises and others views.

[PAXboy]

But the new operator cannot do anything about the basic layout of the Shed and it's manifest shortcomings. All of which are due, in my view, to cost cutting from the moment the Architect was given their first instruction.

The cost of reshaping it is never going to happen and the cost of improving the experience by more staff, is never going tohappen. That's it folks. Game Over.

[pabely]

Remember AENA is a grown up airport operator, the investment I'm sure will suprise us all. They are not going to spend their money and let things stay as they are.

[EcamSurprise]

But changing the attitudes of the security staff and how they treat their "customers" would go a long way.

I know we all complain about security, but they are by far the most arrogant and obnoxious workers I've come across on all my travels through euro airports.
I always think I've been unlucky but every single time someone is being shouted at or a little old fragile lady being sneered at because she doesn't have the correct liquids back.. It's one area that could be improved without much cost of re-development.

They need to be careful, Gatwick used to be pretty poor but they've changed a their game and have made some really good inprovements. One notable one being how you are greeted and talked to by the security staff.

(Southampton was the best in the uK for security, in my opinion)

And yes, the other elements such as the long walks through drab corridors does affect the whole experience too, but having been through so many airports I think security stands out to me as one of the selling points. The rest I can deal with.

[LTNman]

But the new operator cannot do anything about the basic layout of the Shed and it's manifest shortcomings. All of which are due, in my view, to cost cutting from the moment the Architect was given their first instruction.

The cost of reshaping it is never going to happen and the cost of improving the experience by more staff, is never going tohappen. That's it folks. Game Over.

That is not true. Plans are already in place to extend the terminal so it covers the bus and coach station. This will give the terminal a new entrance and allow the passenger search area to move downstairs. There are also plans to build out the piers and extend the arrivals area including the baggage reclaim area and build an expanded departure lounge. These plans are not minor tweaks but a major development.

[ericlday]

''Plans are already in place to extend the terminal '' have they been submitted and approved ?

[Falcon666]

Ericlday,
The plans were submitted to LBC last year.You can see them on the planning portal for the council.Application number 12/01400/FUL.
Then they started the consultation period early this year before Albertis announced they were off loading their airport portfolio.

Assuming AENA keep to the original plans then the council could approve these reasonably quickly I think , but any changes will create further delays.
Pretty sure all of this would have been debated between the parties involved before the announcement that AENA made a couple of weeks ago.

[ericlday]

Thanks for the update.

[runway08]

But the new operator cannot do anything about the basic layout of the Shed
and it's manifest shortcomings. All of which are due, in my view, to cost
cutting from the moment the Architect was given their first instruction.


The cost of reshaping it is never going to happen and the cost of improving the
experience by more staff, is never going tohappen. That's it folks. Game Over.



What a load of absolute nonsense. You should probably change your name to mr negative. :ugh:

[PAXboy]

runway08 You are free to say so, just as I said:
PAXboy
... in my view ...Whilst I read that the search area might move downstairs, I wonder how many more shops are going to be fitted into the original area? It would be difficult to change the unending corridors with no travelators and the time taken to get to the gates.

Will they provide more seating for people to wait for the flight to be called? Will they provide better information displays?

They are certainly not going to re-instate the through road to ensure one-way traffic flows in the terminal as that would now cost a fortune.

You may choose to call my view 'negative', I consider it 'realistic'. I have been paxing since 1965 and using LTN since 1985. I have lived in this country long enough to see the way public facilities are dealt with.

[davidjohnson6]

I've been travelling through Luton since 2003 - it's a dump and always has been. Certainly, the opening of the new terminal area in 2005 was a big improvement, but it's not a particularly enjoyable place to hang out.

However, to turn Luton airport into a pleasant environment is going to cost a ton of money. Stansted is nice only because BAA spent a fortune on the general infrastructure over the years.

Neither LBC nor Abertis really care if it gets the odd bad press article - they care only that the revenues keep on coming - ie Joe Bloggs buys a seat on a flight and spend his money in the airport shops

Runway and overnight ramp capacity around London is in short supply and very few airlines *really* want to take on MOL at Stansted - so Abertis may figure that it's not really necessary to spend a vast amount of cash on a nicer environment at Luton - the passengers and airlines will keep on coming anyway. Abertis' shareholders will be more keen on any capital investment being spent on expanding airport capacity instead so as to increase passenger numbers.

The people who see the grotty bits of Luton airport are very much flying on LCC or charter airlines and their passengers' decision to fly takes price very much into account. If you want large scale building works at Luton, the money has to come from somewhere - namely increased airport charges which translates into higher cost of flights. Joe Bloggs may not like Luton much and may make a big fuss to the press, but does he *really* want to pay a higher ticket price in the future for the nicer environment ?

[LTNman]

Whilst I read that the search area might move downstairs, I wonder how many more shops are going to be fitted into the original area? It would be difficult to change the unending corridors with no travelators and the time taken to get to the gates.


The existing search area will become the start of the airside lounge. It will continue into the new build above the new entrance hall in the area which is now the bus and coach station. It will continue and cross the existing ground floor entrance. The existing Duty Free shop will be modified to allow access to the new pier. New seating areas will be gained as well as many more shopping outlets. The existing pier to the eastern apron will be puffed out on either side to allow gate seating.

[runway08]

You may choose to call my view 'negative', I consider it 'realistic'. I have
been paxing since 1965 and using LTN since 1985. I have lived in this country
long enough to see the way public facilities are dealt with.


I call it negative because you insist "nothing" will happen and everything will be miserable and "stay the same" yet plans are clearly in place for upgrades and changes. Give the new chaps a couple of months at least before you condemn the future golly gosh.

On a general note Luton will have no problem attracting new airlines regardless of how pessimistic people seem to be. The way LGW/LHR expansion is going it will take another 20 years for them to even talk about expanding. With FR embedded at STN scaring everyone from even attempting a move there. Planes have to fly somewhere and LTN is very well located. Now whether that means an "amazing" improvement for the PAX using the airport who knows but as for flights I see no concern for a downturn in LTN's fortune for a good long while.

The cup is half full man its half full.. :ok: cheers

[pabely]

Well said runway08!
The only issue I can see is how quickly this can be done.
Lets says 3-6 months everything approved of change on management, another 3-6 months to get plans approved (I'm sure it's all in the background already) then start things moving after the end of next years summer season and the UK ecomony picks up a little more. :oh:

[Thewigmoreman]

Whilst cycling around various plane spotting points around LTN today I realised what a beautiful area the airport is actually near. I was then shocked to hear of bloor proposals to pave over various prime spotting points toward the Eastern side of the airport. To protect our beautiful countryside and areas where I see many a planespotter daily please protest in writing to Richard Kelly, principal strategic planning officer, NHDC, Gernon Road, Letchworth SG6 3JF or email [email protected]. Sorry about lack of aviation details but had to be heard on this one.

Ps el al 777-200 is always nice to se Among a319s once in a while even if it did take a very short run upm:O:O

[crewmeal]

And on the other hand....

Luton voted worst Airport in the UK by consumers | Bedfordshire Local News, Local News Headlines in Bedford | Bedfordshire Newspaper Online (http://www.bedfordshire-news.co.uk/News/Luton-voted-worst-Airport-in-the-UK-by-consumers-20130819133128.htm)

An interesting article, but they don't go into much detail as to what went wrong. My guess is that car parking is top of the list which will wind anyone up.

[LTNman]

There is plenty wrong with Luton, I got stung for £11 the other week for 1 hour 20 minutes parking in the short term car park. I then got hit with a £1.35 credit card fee on top of that.

The airport spokesmen talks about the extra retail outlets but that has come at the price of reducing seating even more.

The airport has no control over check-in times but it has never struck me as being an issue. Passenger screening is an issue in the early morning but can only be addressed when it is moved downstairs. Thankfully the traffic jams into the CTA now seem to be a thing of the past but even though we here could all see a simple solution the airport could not and first introduced traffic lights which had no effect on traffic flows before it bit the bullet and revised the road layout.

The truth is that Luton is still running at over capacity for parts of the day but if passengers want to keep using Luton no one is going to put the full signs up.

[pabely]

If you look at the application 12/01400/FUL it shows an expiry of 30/6/2013 so I don't think it is currently being considered by LBC planning.

[Falcon666]

Pabely

I think , but I am not sure that the date of 30/6/2013 was for the consultation period which has been completed.
The important date is the permission date which has no date inserted hence it is still pending consideration on the portal.

I may be proved wrong so watch this space

[runway08]

Hi wigmore, Where could they really pave over... most of it is Large open fields. What reason would they have to lay concrete randomly? The crash gate? Needs a proper concreting anyway.. its a mess.:ok: Was when I went up a few months back anywho.

[pabely]

runway08, have you actually looked at the plans which include enviromental inpacts, drainage, new stands, taxiway, expanded terminal etc. etc.
This is not a couple of paddy's doing a new driveway!
Which crashgate are you worried about?

[LTNman]

London Luton Airport Celebrates its 75th Anniversary - YouTube

[runway08]

Pabely I am not worried about any spotting site as I don't spot, Did some photography as a teen but that's about it. I was responding to the chap who said they are paving over spotting spots. All I could think of is the crash gate and the open fields... That's where I see all the cars congregate anytime I go watch a few take offs.

[pabely]

runway08, no problem. I think I know where you mean, spend some time there with the kids in the past. Lets hope the new operator is more friendly to the guys & gals who almost self police airport boarders.

[Buster the Bear]

Spotters and enthusiasts acting as permiter security on a voluntary basis. We all did that once, but now ostracised for even wanting to look at aeroplanes!

I for one would not have taken my current career path if it wasn't for being (and I hate this word) inspired, by watching very closely, jets taxying past the spectators area back in 1969 (I was 6)!

I would love to take Busterette to the old Luton spectator area, or the Queens Building, or even on the Gatwick terminal roof.

September 11th 2001 changed the world forever....sadly!

[Barling Magna]

Very true, Buster. However, Manchester manages to maintain an Aviation Viewing Park.

[davidjohnson6]

Wigmore - in the next 3 months there are 2 new routes to Romania, 1 to Slovakia and 1 to Ukraine ... and you still want to know about more ????

[runway08]

@wigmore lol you have to love it eh, A new housing development near the airport.. no doubt in 20 years they will all be complaining about the noise from the pesky airport.

@pabely no worries, do you have a link to the newest plans by the way?

cheers :ok:

@buster when I was small I would spend my Saturdays in that building getting a toasted cheese sandwich and hoping an airplane would actually move at the oh so dead airport. I remember tristars from Caledonian and Hercules from southern air? There weren't many movements but the variation was so good compared to modern day. Really built my interest in aviation.

[LGS6753]

Latest plans are here:

Revised Masterplan - London Luton Airport (http://www.london-luton.co.uk/en/content/8/1171/revised-masterplan.html)

[LTNman]

This was the video which is still current http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCxgfo8Tb5o

[Boeing737-8]

Will there be a new plan with the new owners or the same

[LTNman]

No doubt it could be tweaked here are there but I would have thought it would be basically the same as before.

Well I am departing LTN today at 7:45 which is the 25th departure after 6am. I will report back next week at what LTN and its terminal was like its peak travel time.

[FRatSTN]

The expansion looks good but I still see a few problems with it:

With a 50% increase in passenger numbers, if not more, the terminal may only get busier even with the expansions in place.

The new entrance will take the place of existing bus stops. With more passengers, there will be a growing demand for bus/coach transport, yet there will be less space for buses directly outside the terminal than there currently is today.

There is no improvement on car parking. If anything, that may also decrease with the new two-story pier so car parking will become a lot more restricted.

There is no mention of the departure lounge, just an increased amount of seating. Perhaps it just wasn't mentioned in the video, but an increased range of shops, restaurants, food outlets etc. will also be needed to cater for more passengers as well as more space.

The fundamental problem at Luton is the small amount of land they have to develop on. It's already fairly small and compact as it is. Despite the widening of the road from the Holiday Inn to the Terminal, traffic congestion may still be a problem right back from the M1 and for people in Luton itself.

It would be good if it all happens, but I would be hugely opposed to it if I were a resident anywhere nearby.

[PAXboy]

If I was still a resident nearby, I would hugely supportive.

Jobs. In the middle of the greatest depression since the Depression, jobs of all kinds are needed. Short and long term jobs. There are other benefits too, of course.

[Dannyboy39]

Sorry to be blunt, but have you actually read the plans, because almost all of that post if factually incorrect.

With a 50% increase in passenger numbers, if not more, the terminal may only get busier even with the expansions in place.

The plan is to increase passenger numbers by nearly 100%. And yes, the terminal will get busier, but that will be offset somewhat by the bigger CTA capacity. Because of the location, Luton could easily become a major major airport. But that's unrealistic - the owners knew as much back in 2005.

The new entrance will take the place of existing bus stops. With more passengers, there will be a growing demand for bus/coach transport, yet there will be less space for buses directly outside the terminal than there currently is today.

The public transport plan is a bit patchy, but anecdotally it looks bigger than now. The vast majority of customers will still travel by train/car.

There is no improvement on car parking. If anything, that may also decrease with the new two-story pier so car parking will become a lot more restricted.

There is a 1,200 space multi storey car park to be built. The road network will become a dual carriageway and improvements in the drop off look fairly decent in offsetting the extra movements.

There is no mention of the departure lounge, just an increased amount of seating. Perhaps it just wasn't mentioned in the video, but an increased range of shops, restaurants, food outlets etc. will also be needed to cater for more passengers as well as more space.

Bigger terminal area = more space. The idea is to extend the departure lounge to the South. Its way too early to be discussing fixtures and fittings.

The fundamental problem at Luton is the small amount of land they have to develop on. It's already fairly small and compact as it is. Despite the widening of the road from the Holiday Inn to the Terminal, traffic congestion may still be a problem right back from the M1 and for people in Luton itself.

See above. In terms of an environmental point of view, its possibly a good thing? The airport has made a big issue about the efficiency of the airport - land to passengers ratio.

I would be hugely opposed to it if I were a resident anywhere nearby.

I'm a resident nearby and I'm not opposed to it. As someone has already touched on - jobs and economic advantages. The town can ill afford for its only major wealth creator to become stagnant. I'd say the majority of residents are for the expansion, with the only opponents being the NIMBYs from Hertfordshire.

[runway08]

I think you will find most people here in Luton are actually pro airport. We need the jobs and money that comes from the airport or the town would die. Most of us will know someone employed there or use the airport for travel.

The whingers tend to be some wealthy 80 yr olds just out of town who cant plant their roses in absolute peace and quiet. Cry me a river, after what 15 years of endless protest all they could muster together was a group of about 50 folks to make utter fools of themselves in the town centre.

Also regarding space... the airport is rather unorganised, there is land here there and everywhere that could be used.. not to mention endless car parks taking up tonnes of space. The old terminal takes up a huge chunk also that could be far better utilised. The area behind the fire station, the tarmac.. the car park and the actual fire station itself could be moved to better locations. The engine bay could be moved and it and the grass alongside it could be used better. The area alongside the harrods ramp is open and unused.. The old spectators and the buildings around it should be utilised better. There are scraggyly one off buildings all around the airport hogging up space that could all be moved into 1 large multi-storey complex. (Yes before anyone mentions it I realise not all the ground is level, they can build island airports reclaimed from the ocean then they can fill in un level ground in luton).

Whether anyone can be bothered to invest the money to change all that stuff will remain to be seen.

[Boeing737-8]

The owners spend 430 million which means there must of seen something in luton and will invest money but will use there own plan as Alberis is not the best

[LGS6753]

The majority of the population of Luton and its surrounding areas (but not Breachwood Green, Caddington and Slip End) are supportive of the airport, and have been for 50 years plus. Those three villages are most affected by noise which hardly affects anywhere else. Most of the population of those villages has moved in knowing that they were likely to be affected by aircraft noise - yet still they complain!
The airport has brought wealth and employment to an area of the south-east which had suffered from de-industrialization (Vauxhall, SKF, Electrolux, Whitbread brewery, Commer/Karrier, Bedford Trucks, AC Delco and many other formerly large employers have shed jobs). In place of them are head offices of two major UK airlines, hotels, airport operational staff, aircrew, and a thousand other support companies providing everything from aircraft cleaning to precision engineering.
To say nothing of the income remitted from the airport to Luton Council - year in, year out.

[pabely]

Remember there is also the MK effect which is in another county but does not kick up as much as herts. MK is #1 Highest proportion of major foreign companies. 780+ International firms chose MK. Luton airport is marketed strongly by the dev agency in this respect.
A better more sucessful Luton airport will bring long term jobs and wealth to the whole area.

[boeing_eng]

Luton - skiathos thomson 737-757
Luton - thessaloniki thomson 737

Hmm...Thessaloniki is hardly a new destination for TOM having been served for a number of years from LTN.:rolleyes:

However, according to the current program, it will be dropped next year with JSI being served instead (presumably by 757) There is also some growth planned on existing routes to allow a greater range of 10/11 night breaks (so RHO and ZTH are planned to be served twice weekly)

[Boeing737-8]

No thessaloniki in stopping and skiathos in new from may 2014

[TSR2]

Whenever Luton is mentioned, two things spring to mind.

1. Luton Airport
It's good to see that Luton Airport is experiencing steady positive growth and that the future looks bright.

2. Luton Town FC
It is criminal that they have been out of the Football League for so long. Looking at todays results, the attendance at Luton was more than three times more than the second highest. The supporters of Luton Town deserve better.

[gilesdavies]

Luton- sharm el sheikh monarch 321-320
Luton - Venice easyjet 319-320
Luton -iasi tarom 737
Luton - skiathos thomson 737-757
Luton-craiova wizz 320
Luton- kosice wizz 320
Luton- Donetsk wizz 320

All of these routes have already been announced and on sale, if they haven't already started...


Luton - Dubai. Emirates 330
Luton - Newark united 757

It was all going so well, then you throw these two routes into the mix!

These are the two routes what every UK airport has at the top of their dream list if they don't already have them!

Unless you can demonstrate a source, both are very unlikely...

United are committed to Heathrow, and would IF they really did want to fly from another London airport. fly from the likes of Stansted or Gatwick, where the old Continental (before merger with United) flew from both.

Continental made Gatwick to Newark work for years, and flew the route profitably with 3-4 flights a day. They only moved to Heathrow, because of the open skies agreement with the USA and routes like this are even more profitable from Heathrow and was better to just have one London base than two on a cost basis.

Gatwick is publicly screaming out for a scheduled NYC route, and would flight tooth and nail to obtain the route from other London airports, and that probably even goes as far to offering some sort of subsidy to fly the route.

The likes of Emirates have 40+ Premium seats on their aircraft, Luton does not have a lounge cable of handling this number.

[777fan]

Airport s new plans look like growth wil be encouraged and the airport should rise in the rankings hopefully!:ok:

[Buster the Bear]

TSR 2, Mr level and I would agree! Up the Hatters!

My heaven would be a new ground at the airport sited along Buster Way! Luton Relic selling hot dogs and orange shirts!

easyJet leaving Luton, not a problem, but will never happen.

[LTNman]

Joined the queue to get airside at 06.09 and was in the departure lounge by 06.24 which I thought was quite good seeing how busy the place was at that time of day. The departure lounge needs more seating, it is OK if you are on your own but if you need a row of four seats forget it.

I went to sit down and some woman told me that seat was taken. Ten minutes later her husband turns up and tells her it was time to go so never sat in that so called taken seat. Well I was needling her for those ten minutes by touching the seat cover as I looked for the invisible man. This clearly was rattling the women so it did not help matters when I had a pop at her when she got up about reserving a seat and not using it in a busy departure lounge. When her husband was at a safe distance he shouts Wan*er at me. They were both so angry I think I spoiled their day.:{:ugh:

[boeing_eng]

Sorry about the posts recently my account has been hacked by some joker who is making ridiculous posts about rubbish. The only legitimate post I made was about bloor homes and the development all others were not me, sorry for any annoyance.

??????!!!!!!!!....Someone tell me this isn't April 1st!:ugh::ugh:

[McGoonagall]

??????!!!!!!!!....Someone tell me this isn't April 1st!:ugh::ugh:

I believe him. Then again I was born yesterday on a banana boat coming up the Thames.

:E

[wallp]

Is there any more new son a potential resumption of a Luton to Waterford service anytime soon?

[runway08]

In a completely half assed effort at trolling. Is Easyjet leaving Luton in the future all that unrealistic. Imagine they got themselves a whole lot more space at LGW somehow. I think they would jump out of here in a flash. Just my opinion of course but they seem to lack interest here at home now days.:p

As for Luton Town, Ah could you imagine the days foreign airliners flying into luton with a team to actually play in the town rather then arsenal or Wembley.

[toledoashley]

I could see some routes move if EZY really built up Stansted. Mykonos, Olbia, Corfu, Bordeaux & Reykjavik spring to mind - but the core routes will always remain (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Belfast, Amsterdam, Malaga, Faro, Palma, Alicante, Geneva and Nice)

[FRatSTN]

but the core routes will always remain (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Belfast, Amsterdam, Malaga, Faro, Palma, Alicante, Geneva and Nice)

I wouldn't be so sure!!!

They have taken Alicante, Barcelona and Faro away from Stansted and significantly reduced the frequency of Amsterdam, Edinburgh, Glasgow Malaga, Nice, Palma amongst others.

I suppose it just goes to show that nothing is secure really! Lets hope that EasyJet will eventually grow again at Stansted, just not too much at Luton's expense. Although it probably will be knowing EasyJet!

[runway08]

Would they be all that much missed, Someone else would just slip in. Room and stands for overnighters. More Wizz?

Other airlines from LGW or LHR who are desperate for London slots? Airlines who cant afford to operate at the big 2.. More execs? Something would fill the void. Like I mentioned before Luton Is so well located and the lack of any expansion at LHR/LGW will keep us busy for a long while.

All hypothetical of course but in the Airline industry even the most bizarre things happen. :D

[Buster the Bear]

I understand the football pitches in Wigmore that back onto airport land will be closing for good next May, so what is going to be built there?

[Boeing737-8]

Which part of the field

[pabely]

4 pitches part of Active Beds & Luton? Good land to relocate things :E

[LTNman]

Find that hard to believe. For a start the locals would kick up a stink as that is public parkland. Also that park was created as a noise buffer zone. A good chunk of that land was a council tip and Signature have taken months stabilising just a tiny amount of that tip so they could lay concrete over it.

Despite my comments above there was a plan many years ago to move the park and use some of the land for airport use but the locals would be right to complain if they found themselves living next to a new apron or a car park instead of a public park.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

The park is good for expansion.

Most of the residents of Wigmore are airport dependent.

I lived x the street from the park several years ago, and the general airport nose was not intrusive.

The only intrusive noise was from night-time engine runs.

The airport master plan many years ago included the expansion of Wigmore lane, plus access from that side to the airport.

Thus any NIMBY should have been advised in any pre purchase diligence reports.

Glf

[boeing_eng]

Gulfstreamaviator, as long-term resident of Wigmore, I find your comments a tad simplistic and somewhat inaccurate in parts....

The development known as Century Park which proposed building on a part of the area bordering the airport to the East (currently part of Wigmore Park) has been at the planning stage for years. This has never been proposed as an extension to the airport but rather an employment zone (offices etc)

The major objection of local residents has always been that no direct access to the site should be allowed from Eaton Green Road due to the congestion that we already suffer (and the Council has supported this view)

Local residents have had no communication from local Councillors or the Council over any recent developments regarding Century Park. A summary of the plans can be found at:

http://www.shapeyourfuture.org.uk/documents/BackgroundPaper11Letterdated6May11.pdf

[pabely]

And if the go ahead with punching a duel tunnel under taxway Echo, were there not plans for new Industrial units that side?

[LTNman]

Yes but beyond the park on the Beds side of the county border by the 26 turning circle

[ericlday]

Will all the soil from tunnel excavations be deposited around the 26 turning circle area to allow parallel taxiway to be extended to the end of the runway ?
Good infill aggregate material.

[Boeing737-8]

Any new routes for 2014 and the Waterford was meant to have a new airline months ago but nothing has happen since

[pabely]

ericlday - well yes but century park project is different from airport project so things would have to come together if both are done in parallel. If century park does not move forward why bore new tunnels?

[LTNman]

Maybe ten years ago a dotted line appeared on an official map showing an A505 bypass from the Ibis roundabout that rejoined the A505 back at Lilley Bottom.

The only way Century Park will be built is when a Government funded road is built. That road will not be started from the CTA or the road that serves the long term car park as the CTA could not cope with external non airport traffic and the road that runs along the hangar line is too narrow by the Monarch hangars and that road is basically a service road for the airport that already gets congested with local traffic in the rush hour.

[wallp]

What are the chances we might see a Flybe expansion at Luton once their Gatwick operation closes?

Maybe more frequency to Isle of Man & Jersey to counteract the loss of capacity at LGW, plus some new routes like Guernsey & perhaps even Waterford?

[Boeing737-8]

Flybe have not released their aircraft plan for luton for the routes to Isle of Man and jeresy. Maybe a few new routes to guernsey newcastle Newquay waterford or a plane upgrade to a e175

[Gulfstreamaviator]

beoing_eng: I agree my view is simplistic, but thats how at the end of the day the entire planning or lack of planning permissions will pan out.

So many times the basic plan is pushed thru, with vast benefits for the local community, and suddenly the true numbers pan out, and the final project is not quite as expectted. Now it is too late to stop it.

The wedding cake and airport industrial estate provide employment and airport support services.

Eaton Green Road, as it exists is as you say a feeder for commuters, and would need widening (airportside I would assume).

If you go back about 10 years ago, the original airport expansion was modified to keep the status quo.

We moved to High town about 5 years ago, so no longer Wigmore residents. Being able to walk to work was a great benefit, eroded by the first real expansion of the terminal, so no benefit in living in Wigmore.

glf

[boeing_eng]

Fair enough GLF, but as LTNMan says I feel Century Park will never happen unless someone else reaches into their pocket to pay for the new access road.

The whole of this area is now hampered by poor infrastructure. Unless serious money is spent to improve it, there will be no expansion or additional employment opportunities created apart from a few tweaks at the airport.

Aside from the traffic issues around the airport, there is also the problem of traffic leaving the M1 at junction 10 in peak periods tailing back up to 10A. Although plans have been mentioned to carry out major work at the Kidney Wood roundabout, this seems to have gone quiet recently.

But of course, all that money spent on the Dunstable to Luton Busway was
worth it!:ugh::rolleyes:

[Buster the Bear]

No links, but emails have gone out from LBC stating that there will be no more football there come May 2014.

[LTNman]

Junction 10 to Capability Green plans are in place and so is the government funding. If you do a google search the timeline shows work starting next year.

[runway08]

Widening Eaton Green RD would be one of the easiest road widening projects ever. On the airport side it is wide mounds of grass nearly the whole length of the road and the other part of it is large flat car park.

[LTNman]

So you widen Eaton Green Road then what do you do?

[ericlday]

Vauxhall Way is the bottle neck before getting onto Airport Way. Dualing of VW not as easy as Eaton Green Rd.

[Falcon666]

So the Century Park story continues.
Wasn't the land originally owned by the Chang family ( Singapore or Hong Kong business ) and then became a prologis site after family issues created the sale!
If I remember correctly the cost of building a dual width tunnel in 2000 was some 15-18 Million.
If so how much is that by today's standards?
Century Park is some 480 acres in size and access is the only reason it hasn't been developed.
Even with the government fund for the J10 realignment I just can't see who would come up with the money to fund the tunnel needed to gain access to the site.

[pabely]

All depends on your budget renting/buying etc. Some great areas and others to avoid, same as any large towns. If you are getting employment at the airport the HR people will be able to point you in the right direction.

[runway08]

Just steer clear of Hightown and Marsh Farm. Luton has some decent areas, Ignore the media hatred. Around the airport, Stockwood park area towards the motorway.. Barton Hills.. Luton isn't bad its just a tad boring. Not a lot to do.

[boeing_eng]

I've lived in Wigmore for over 20 years. By any standard its a good area, with decent amenities nearby (supermarket, doctors etc) and very quick access to the M1. As I work shifts at the airport, living here has made the commute painless. If you have kids (or are planning them), schools may be an issue and you'll need to do your homework here. My two went to faith schools in town so we didn't use the local catchment schools.

Stopsley, Bushmead & Barton Hills are the other areas I would consider!

I'd echo the comments on ignoring anything you've seen or heard in the media!.....Yes, there are rough parts but looking at just two towns nearby, so does Stevenage and Hemel!

[Buster the Bear]

You actually want to live in Luton - WOW!

[boeing_eng]

You actually want to live in Luton - WOW!

Here we go....didn't take long Buster! (well I suppose the nights are closing in at the old Zoo!) :}:}

[SHTTKR]

within a couple of miles of the airport, you can have a £1.2mil converted water tower, or a £90k studio flat.

[boeing_eng]

As this is going seriously off-thread....

I'll send a private message and I'll help out where I can.....although any of the Stopsley based estate agents will be able to give good advice.

[LTNman]

Unless he wants to live in a hanger no more talk about houses please.:=:zzz:

[pabely]

Not wanting to make this a house buying thread, but contact Haart or Connells Estate agents. Both well established in the area with local offices.
For your budget you should get 4 bedroom detached double garage etc.
If you are willing to commute in beds from say cardington, a new build will cost you much less. - Comment on this Ends, promise.

[LTNman]

I travelled back through Luton yesterday afternoon. Since the last time I used Luton new automatic passport readers have been introduced for those people with the latest chipped passport. Five readers have been introduced but it took seven people to keep them ticking over. The first person directed people into the right queue. A second person got the passengers to hold their passports the right way around. Two more people were at the booths to make sure people did they were meant to do while a further three people were crowded into a monitoring booth. The short queue for the automatic readers hardly moved while the longer queue for the human inspectors moved at a fast walk. Quite a few people were rejected by the machine so then had to join the front of the queue for the human inspectors including my daughter.

I have got to say the baggage reclaim area looks like it needs a major update. It just looked really tired while the meeters and greeters area was like a breath of fresh air.

[pabely]

Two seperate issues I think. I assume you are talking about a recent report. The airport experiance is a combination of lots of factors and companies, Some outside the airport control. Lets hope the new management bring in some fresh ideas and make better use of the space.
Productivity - what do you mean? Are there lots of people standing around looking at a spade and a big hole in the ground?:*

[wallp]

Other than those routes already announced by Wizz, Tarom, Easyjet etc, what do you envisage in terms of new airlines/routes and new routes by existing airlines at Luton or is the airport now so constrained at peak times that any growth will be minimal?

[pabely]

The only contraints are early morning arrivals and overnight parking, other than that, plenty of capacity. The new operator will want to maximise it's investment so will go out for more business which LGW is no longer interested in. If the UK ecemony picks up at a greater pace next year it should mean Luton and Stansted can grow together.
Thinking about the future capacity, when do the airspace changes in the North London TMA come into force?

[LTNman]

Can's see a problem with overnight parking now that the south stands are empty most of the time.

Work has finally started on the footings for Signature's new hangar.

[TBSC]

Wizz SOF-LTN 11x weekly (iso 7x) from May 2014.

[Boeing737-8]

Flybe
Air France
Turkish airlines
Klm or Klm city hopper
Freebird airlines
Aeroflot
Air one
Air Europa

[wallp]

I can see the likes of Flybe, Turkish etc but in what way do you see Air France serving Luton, which routes?

Is Aeroflot not constrained by the bilateral agreements restricting carriers on routes to/from Russia or does that only apply to LGW/LHR?

[runway08]

Is that an opinion or some rumours?

Air France eh? Doubt it.. Aeroflot? Not likely..

I can see some more routes being picked up by Flybe. In the long term no doubts quite a few new airlines will come a long but I don't see Air France or Aeroflot being one of them.

Aren't AirOne now Alitalia?

Saw a White and Blue Fokker 50 today as I was returning from work.. Was it a freighter anybody know?

[pabely]

Flybe - maybe
Air France - no
Turkish airlines - unless they move from STN
Klm or Klm city hopper - no
Freebird airlines - hum, do they actual run scheduled routes or just charters?
Aeroflot - no
Air one - maybe
Air Europa - maybe

[Boeing737-8]

No flight tommorrow

And turkish don't go stansted there go Gatwick and Heathrow

[wallp]

Could other UK based carriers play a role in Luton's future growth? Other than those airlines who already serve the airport, how about the likes of Thomas Cook or perhaps even BMI Regional ?

[boeing_eng]

Flybe
Air France
Turkish airlines
Klm or Klm city hopper
Freebird airlines
Aeroflot
Air one
Air Europa

Do I detect another "hacked account"?!:}:}:}

[pabely]

Turkish Airlines at STN, correct, it was a footie charter recently. With LHR, LGW and Brun covered, why would they consider Luton? STN attacts almost all other Turkish airlines. Perhaps they might be a target?

[Expressflight]

I don't think I can recall such a low vis as this morning's 0520Z METAR for LTN, it giving met vis as 0000 and RVR R26/0075.

[TBSC]

Wizz Warsaw-Luton frequency will be increased to 21x weekly (from 17x) from May 2014.

[Boeing737-8]

Easyjet has stop Istanbul form 28march 2014

[Falcon666]

Boeing737-8
Is that a definite ?
Istanbul has been the last to be loaded on previous occasions!

[gilesdavies]

Just done a quick search on the easyJet booking engine to get an idea of the summer frequencies for next year and this is what is show...
(I chose some random dates in June and got the below results.)

Aberdeen - 1x Daily (Evening Departure)
Alicante - Alternates each day between 2x Daily and 1x Daily
Amsterdam - 4x Daily (3x Sat and Sun)
Barcelona - 2x Daily
Belfast Int - 3x Daily (1x Sat)
Berlin - 2x Daily
Bordeaux - 1x Daily (2x Sat)
Budapest - 4x Weekly - Mon, Thurs, Fri and Sun
Corfu - 4x Weekly - Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun
Crete (HER) - 2x Weekly - Wed and Sat
Cyprus (PFO) - 3x Weekly - Wed, Sat and Sun
Dortmund - 2x Daily (1x Sat)
Edinburgh - 3x Daily - Sun-Thurs, 4x Daily - Fri and 1x Daily - Sat
Faro - 1x Daily - Mon, Tues, Thurs and Fri, 2x Daily - Weds, Sat and Sun
Geneva - 2x Daily
Glasgow - 4x Daily - Mon, Thurs and Fri, 3x Daily - Tues, Weds, 2x Daily - Sun and 1x Sat
Grenoble - Discontinued from 20th April (I think this is seasonal)
Hamburg - 1x Daily (No service Sat)
Ibiza - 5x Weekly - Mon, Tues, Thurs, Fri and Sat
Inverness - 1x Daily
Istanbul - Discontinued from 28th March
Lisbon - 2x Daily (1x Sat)
Madrid - 2x Daily - Mon, Fri and Sun, 1x Daily - Tues, Weds, Thurs and Sat
Majorca - 2x Daily (3x Sat)
Malaga - 2x Daily (3x Sat)
Menorca - 1x Weekly (Sat)
Milan (MXP) - 2x Daily - Mon, Thurs and Fri, 1x Daily Tues, Weds, Sat and Sun
Montpellier - 2x Weekly - Tues and Sat
Mykonos - 2x Weekly - Tues and Fri
Nice - 2x Daily (3x Sat)
Olbia - 2x Weekly - Weds and Sat
Paris (CDG) - 3x Daily (2x Sat and Sun)
Pisa - 1x Daily
Reykjavik (KEF) - 1x Daily (No Service Sat)
Salzburg - Discontinued from 19th April (I think this is seasonal)
Sharm El Sheikh - 1x Daily (No Service Sun)
Tel Aviv - 2x Daily - Mon, Tues, Thurs and Sun, 1x Daily - Weds, Fri and Sun
Venice - 4x Weekly - Mon, Thurs, Fri and Sun
Zurich - 1x Daily

I work that out to be 353 flights a week in June 2014, but happy to be corrected.

Shame to see Istanbul vanish, would be great is another airline stepped in to replace this service. Maybe a Pegasus service or a service from Turkish Airlines low cost subsidiary which I think is AnadoluJet? It seems easyJet are pulling out completely from Istanbul, as their only other service from Basel is also stopping on the 28th March... Probably a case that the market has become over saturated with the dominance of Turkish Airlines and Pegasus.

There is some increases in services like Reykjavik (KEF) going from 4 to 6 times weekly, Sharm El Sheikh (SSH) is increasing from 5 to 6 times weekly.

Budapest has dropped from 5 to 4 times weekly and Menorca has dropped from 3-4 times a week to a single weekly service.

Even though Istanbul is being dropped, we do have a new service to Venice this summer and with the increases to KEF and SSH, there doesn't seem a great deal of slack in the current schedule to start any new services. Possibly a twice weekly service with sector time of 2-3hrs away??? Somewhere like Pula or Dubrovnik would be nice! ;)

Considering all the negative talk and the possibility of aircraft been switched to Stansted, I think Luton hasn't done too badly and will be keeping the currently number of based aircraft for Summer 2014.

Being realistic, no growth from easyJet is likely next year with additional aircraft... The growth is going to come from Gatwick, where the airline needs to fill all the slots they are buying from FlyBE and that will probably take 6-8 additional aircraft being based there to fill all these slots.

[TBSC]

Wizz will fly BUD-LTN 4x daily from next March when the 8th aircraft will join BUD base.

[Boeing737-8]

Turkish airlines which has been a rumoured airline but others through was rubbish but I don't think Pegasus will be at luton unless there move all of there stansted flights to luton


Will there be any 787 in luton in the winter season

[pabely]

Is Luton legally able to accept 787's yet?

[pabely]

gilesdavies, if your stats show this summers Wizz flights, how does next summers compare, looks like 20-30% increase on some routes?!

[JonnyH]

Be interested to know the passenger levels across the board for MAH, not just from Luton, as it seems EZY and a few other airlines have either decreased or stopped there services altogether to Menorca.

Maybe the case of too many flights or a decrease in pax who are shifting to elsewhere for their holidays.

If anyone has got details of this years loads, in comparison with previous years loads, from Luton or any other base it would be much appreciated.

[Boeing737-8]

Was there any diverts in the morning I looked showing a few Ryanair flights which luton does not serve

[TSR2]

Be interested to know the passenger levels across the board for MAH, not just from Luton,

Here is a comparison of passenger numbers to Mahon for July 2013 with July 2012.

Gatwick +10%
London City +41%
Luton +7%
Stansted +43%
Belfast Int. -3%
Birmingham +20%
Bournemouth -3%
Bristol +16%
Cardiff +10%
Doncaster -1%
East Midlands +7%
Edinburgh -2%
Exeter +1%
Glasgow -23%
Leeds Bradford +85%
Liverpool +1%
Manchester +15%
Newcastle +9%

[David Sharpe]

I may stand to be corrected, but does the Easy Jet Mahon service not increase it's frequency until the July / August peak season ? Hopefully we should see some increases on this in the next release of flights for the remainder of the Summer schedule.

Overall, as the above figures show, I think Mahon has had a pretty good year from the UK this year, Jet 2 have put a lot of extra capacity into Mahon this year (with new services from a number of bases) and Thomson Airways have operated nearly 35 flights per week into Mahon for the Summer peak, it will be interesting to see if this is maintained next Summer ?

[JonnyH]

I'm baffled at the reduced services then (or the lack of the publication for next years services at the moment).

[compton3bravo]

Three diverted yesterday morning (Thursday) due presumably to very low viz at Stansted - RYR6ML Frankfurt Hahn, FR6MD Krakow and FR86M Budapest. There was a lot of holding for the visibility to improve.
The Fokker 50 somebody mentioned I think was a Denim Air which operated DM1607 to Munich but I am 1,500 miles away so reliant on my computer and intuition!
Regarding Mahon - Minorca is not like any other of the Spanish islands or the Costas. It is essentially for a family or people who just want a quiet beach holiday and there are not too many hotels on the island. This all stems from a Mr Franco not putting hardly any infrastructure into the tourist industry in the 1950-60s due to the island ciding with the Republicans in the Civil War and probably did them a favour. From October until March the island almost closes down so very few direct flights during that time.

[LTNman]

Limits on disclosure required in bus services access litigation - Lexology (http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=a348998d-3bd2-481a-a182-f57bcae2a2c0)

When parties in litigation seek documents and information in the hope of finding a claim or bolstering their cases the courts have to balance the interests of both parties in requiring them to be provided. The Court provided a timely reminder of the limits and appropriate use of disclosure remedies of this sort on 29 August 2013.

The dispute relates to a competition claim brought by Arriva against London Luton Airport Operations Limited (LLAOL), the operator of London Luton Airport (until 2028). From May 2013, an agreement for dedicated direct coach services from central London to the airport was awarded to National Express. The agreement gave National Express exclusive rights to operate the service to and from the airport’s public transport hub for seven years.

Arriva alleges an abuse of dominant position by LLAOL and standard disclosure was ordered. However, Arriva sought additional wide-ranging disclosure including the airport's management accounts relating to costs for aeronautical services and non-aeronautical services and other services, LLAOL's rates, structure and contract terms, LLAOL's internal documents and/or minutes relating to its commercial strategy, passenger and revenue data for the National Express service and airport traffic management documents.

Mr Justice Morgan adopted a robust position based on the fact that the dispute related to a very narrow market, namely matters connected to the relevant bus service. Information relating to any other services were not relevant. The judge was additionally reluctant to grant disclosure of documents where requests for further information would have sufficed but had not been made. In relation to National Express documents in LLAOL’s possession, it was noted that much of it would be commercially confidential and therefore protected from disclosure. For National Express documents not in LLAOL’s possession, it was not appropriate for Arriva to pursue these under the guise of standard disclosure (it would have to apply for a non-party disclosure order directly against National Express). Finally, in the case of airport traffic management documents, it was clear to the judge that Arriva was seeking evidence to create a claim rather than seeking disclosure of pleaded issues.

In what appears to have been a difficult court appearance for Arriva, parties are reminded of the limits of relevance, reasonableness and proportionality when it comes to standard disclosure of documents which are or have been in another party’s control. Courts are unlikely to accede to disclosure requests which appear too broad or speculative, particularly since the changes to the disclosure regime introduced from April 2013 emphasising proportionality and costs control

[wallp]

As one of Luton's longest serving carriers (in its various guises) what does the future hold for Thomson at Luton. Will we eventually see an all 737 fleet at Luton once the 757's are gone? Could this mean more based aircraft and more flights/routes in due course?

Also, what is the likelihood of the 787 ever being seen at Luton (isn't it tailor made for flying from airports like Luton with shorter runways that can't handle some fully laden long haul jets)?

[FRatSTN]

It looks like Thomson will still have a 757 at Luton for S14 since Skiathos is served by a non-stop flight each way, and 738's have to have a fuel stop, in Kavala usually.

TCX will more then double it's S14 schedule at STN with 8 new routes, so maybe Thomson may look to add something from either there or Luton in the future.

[gilesdavies]

Will there be any 787 in luton in the winter season

Is Luton legally able to accept 787's yet?

Also, what is the likelihood of the 787 ever being seen at Luton (isn't it tailor made for flying from airports like Luton with shorter runways that can't handle some fully laden long haul jets)?

Highly doubt it...

Thomson didn't buy the aircraft to operate from smaller airports, simply as a replacement for the 767-300's, with lower operating costs and higher efficiency. They will no doubt want to keep Gatwick as their Long Haul base for London.

We might if we are very lucky, possibly see the occassional 787 visit, if it is operating a cruise charter. I know the old 767-200's use to operate this a few years back to the like of New Orleans or Bridgetown (Barbados).

I remember reading elsewhere that Boeing was not able to deliver the short take-off performance,s that they had originally promised in the early years. But has better performance than the 777-200, and if this can operate from Luton, I see no issue with the 787.

Bristol only has a 6000ft runway, and the 767's operate from there long haul with a fuel stop in Manchester en-route. But I have heard the 787 will not be able to get into Bristol at all. I can't remember if this was an issue with the wingspan and apron space or purely the runway length.

The below Boeing document might be of use, with regards to the 787 and airport compatibility.
http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/787brochure.pdf

gilesdavies, if your stats show this summers Wizz flights, how does next summers compare, looks like 20-30% increase on some routes?!

Wizzair have not released the summer schedule yet and can't guarantee I can do the same as I did for the summer schedule for easyJet yesterday. I was a bit bored yesterday!

It looks like Thomson will still have a 757 at Luton for S14 since Skiathos is served by a non-stop flight each way, and 738's have to have a fuel stop, in Kavala usually.

Skiathos' runway is currently being expanded and should mean from next summer most narrow bodies operating from JSI to the UK, can fly non-stop. So I wouldn't guarantee it will be operated by a 757.

I flew with Thomas Cook on an A320 a few years back, and we operated non-stop back to Gatwick, even though we was scheduled to operate via Thessaloniki for a fuel stop. However the flight was no more than half full.

[FRatSTN]

Skiathos' runway is currently being expanded and should mean from next summer most narrow bodies operating from JSI to the UK, can fly non-stop. So I wouldn't guarantee it will be operated by a 757.


TCX have stops scheduled in Kavala for return flights from JSI in S14 with A321's at EMA, LGW and STN. So it would appear what ever the runway extension is, TCX still won't be operating A321's non-stop as the schedules currently stand. TCX fly MAN and NCL non-stop because they have 757's.

I only assumed that TOM must be using a 757 at LTN in order to fly from JSI non-stop?

[Boeing737-8]

The Corfu flight looks like it is not doing a w flight as it returns in the afternoon instead of 11:40pm

[Boeing737-8]

Will there have more people traveling thought luton than easyjet in the winter as 180 seats compared to easyjet 150 with a319 when there nearly have as many flights as easyjet

[Laarbruch72]

Say again in clear, over.

[davidjohnson6]

737-8 - have a look at the Airport Coordination Ltd website. Admittedly the winter 2014 report for Luton isn't out yet but the summer 2013 report should answer your question in part

[boeing_eng]

TOM's provisional Summer 2014 program for LTN is busier than this year as both the W pattern's currently operated this Summer on Fri/Sat are replaced by an additional return flight.

Ref the 757's.....As long as TOM continue to perform A checks at LTN on these, its likely at least one will continue to be LTN based in the Summer. As for the 787....don't hold your breath (although there is a rumour one may appear soon for a trial fit in H61!)

[Dannyboy39]

The wingspan of the 787 is too big to use the taxiways on the main apron. 52m max span.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

So do pray, how is it going to get into H61 then?

[Boeing737-8]

It was parked on the east stands anyone know why it was there

[compton3bravo]

Operated AUA9701 to Schwerin in Germany - registration OE-LDD.

[LTNman]

The wingspan of the 787 is too big to use the taxiways on the main apron. 52m max span.

I think it can be towed onto the main apron. Luton's first 747 parked on the main apron and that has a similar width wing.

[wallp]

Whilst Luton's route network has continue to grow over recent years, there still seem to me to be a few key areas which are either completely untapped or with potential for growth. What chance some of these in future:

- Scandinavia, with no routes at present, an opportunity for easyjet perhaps?

- Then there's major cities like Dusseldorf or perhaps Frankfurt to complement those destinations already served in Germany?

- Also, the Irish market seems to have plenty of room for growth - Cork, Shannon, Galway, Waterford & Londonderry for example?

[Boeing737-8]

What about the Middle East destinations like Beirut and Amman

The Irish market is empty with Ryanair going in to stansted but if flybe move to luton there might be a few new flights

[boeing_eng]

- Then there's major cities like Dusseldorf or perhaps Frankfurt to complement those destinations already served in Germany?

Dortmund isn't that far from Dusseldorf and EZY don't even fly to fortress FRA from LGW!

[pabely]

The 787 should come to H61 in the future, but only under tow.

Sheduled services - no in the near future.

[LGS6753]

Germany has been tried with Cologne (HLX, 3x daily), Monchengladbach (Debonair and EAE) and Munich (Debonair & Monarch).

Berlin, Dortmund & Hamburg are current EZY destinations.

Hopefully Waterford will return. And Wizz are likely to add further eastern destinations (former Yugoslavia, Ukraine). I hope to see better, year-round links to Channel Isles and IOM too.

Scandinavia is a big gap, but I don't see many opportunities there. There could be scope for more Italian destinations, and when/if the Greek economy improves, more Greek islands.

When the UK economy picks up, there will be an increase in bucket & spade routes. Destinations further east are unlikely due to runway constraints.

[Buster the Bear]

The holidays in

AWESOME!

[Boeing737-8]

Few diiferent aircraft in the next week
Sunday-767-200
Monday-777-200
Tuesday-767-300
Wednesday-767-300
Thursday-no flight
Friday-777-200
Saturday-no flight
Sunday-777-200 + 737-800

[davidjohnson6]

737-8 - this year from 4th September to about 20th Sept there are 3 different major events in the Jewish calendar with a lot of people travelling between Europe and Israel until end of September. There's a similiar peak each year in April.

[Boeing737-8]

Have the two stands change

[LTNman]

They were moved in the last week of August

[LTNman]

I see another passenger has been killed in a road traffic accident at the airport. This time it was by the Ibis as the passenger was making her way to the hotel.

[TSR2]

I see another passenger has been killed in a road traffic accident at the airport.

That's very sad.

[LTNman]

It is only a matter of time before a passenger or visitor is killed in the tunnel. Once you are walking in the road a 300m fence stops you getting back onto the pavement.

[davidjohnson6]

When flying to/from Luton with only hand luggage, I usually walk between the parkway train station and the terminal - it's only 15 mins walk.

While the new exit via the Hampton hotel certainly makes the route more pedestrian friendly, once you reach the Holiday Inn heading for the terminal, it becomes *very* heavy on barriers between road and pavement - sufficiently so that as one exits the tunnel on the way to the terminal, I find myself pretty much forced to climb over the barriers. I'm fortunate to be of an age and fitness that climbing barriers is not a great burden but it still feels rather pedestrian unfriendly - almost as if by walking to the airport I'm deemed by the airport or council to be some sort of weirdo. In the tunnel, the fencing is comprised largely of crash barriers rather than a normal fence - suggests that the fence is for the benefit of out-of-control cars rather than for pedestrians

Are all these barriers just a relic of traffic management people at the airport / council being enthusiastic in their jobs, or is there a reason as to why there needs to be *quite* so much fencing ?

[LTNman]

It was put in place to discourage passengers jumping out of cars so avoiding the drop off charge. The argument went that by a car stopping to let passengers out who often then went to the cars boot for their luggage they often cause the congestion. It is only mainly the Eastern Europeans driving foreign registered cars who still stop as the airport can't slap a charge on them.

[Boeing737-8]

Why was the stands move

[Boeing737-8]

Did they go thought ocean sky in the afternoon about 4pm as the england coach was parked outside

[TBSC]

It is only mainly the Eastern Europeans driving foreign registered cars who
still stop


While the Western Europeans with local plates are running over pedestrians. Or is that a generalization, too?

[LTNman]

While the Western Europeans with local plates are running over pedestrians. Or is that a generalization, too?

Just a personal observation over the last few visits to the airport. The Eastern Europeans are also the ones who get their cars towed away when they leave them unoccupied. No doubt there are English as well but it does seem to be mainly a problem from the former Eastern block.

Why was the stands move

The old cargo stands were needed for Signatures new hangar.

[pabely]

I thought the cargo stands move was only temporary until November as per NOTAM, for building work?

[LTNman]

I have looked at the NOTAM, so where does it say it is only temporary? The cargo stands might or might not get shifted again but they won't be going back to their old position unless Signature keep their hangar doors open.

I think there were moved back a few feet and from memory one of the stands was twisted around a little.

Looking at the NOTAM it also states that the declared distances have been amended. I am assuming the A and C refers to take off distances from the intersections at taxiway Alpha and Taxiway Charlie.

I can't remember the last time I saw Charlie used but I guess it is still used on occasions.

E) AMEND RWY DECLARED DISTANCES AS FOLLOWS:
RWY LDA . TODA . ASDA .TORA
26 2080M 3243M 2219M 2162M
26A 0 ......2657M 1828M 1771M
26C 0 ......1580M 1110M 1053M
08C 0 ......1698M 1132M 1132M
08B 0 ......2532M 1688M 1688M
08 2162M 3243M 2162M 2162M

[wallp]

Re the German market, Cologne & Monchengladbach were served a long time ago now, perhaps time to try both again with the latter to Dusseldorf this time?

I'm aware Easyjet don't go to Frankfurt at all but wondered if the route could offer potential for another carrier, or even the Frankfurt Hahn alternative which Ryanair serve from other points in the UK?

I'm a little surprised Munich can't be made to work beyond a winter ski destination service for Monarch. Maybe they're the wrong airline to get the best out of the route?

I thought LGS6753 made a good point re Italian destinations. There must be plenty of scope for growth there as the economy improves, be it to mainland Italy or to Sardinia and Sicily, same with Greece/Greek islands.

I hope the point about better services to Isle of Man & Jersey is also true. I think I'm right in saying that Luton sustained a year round service to the Isle of Man for many years during the Manx/BA period? Hopefully Flybe can find a way to make the service work on this basis going forward, especially once their Gatwick flights cease.

[pabely]

LTNman
A2944/13CONFIGURATION OF STANDS 30 AND 31 ON THE CARGO APRON HAVE CHANGED. A FOLLOW ME SHALL BE PROVIDED AND ACFT WILL BE MARSHALLED. 23 AUG 15:37 2013 UNTIL 23 NOV 23:00 2013. CREATED: 23 AUG 15:38 2013

[LTNman]

They are definitely not going back. I had a look at the planning application today and part of the planning permission was to shift them.

[777fan]

El al will be especially busy in the next few weeks but will any other airlines see any other increase in flights etc maybe new flybe routes

[777fan]

Any news on any Turkish routes as you mentioned

[Boeing737-8]

A few airlines in mind
Turkish airlines
Pegasus airlines
Atlas jet
Anadolujet
Sun express
Onur air

[pabely]

Hi Boeing 787-8, is this something you might like or a good rumour? If it was from someone in the know then would they not know which airline was thinking about serving Luton? Sun Express & Onur Air have run routes before for travel agents.

[Boeing737-8]

Still no new routes or upgrades on planes maybe london market will be un touched by flybe for someone else to fill in on the Channel Islands and Ireland


Turkish routes I have not heard off any but these are some to fill in the easyjet route which will end on the 28th march 2014

[wallp]

If not Flybe as you intimate, who do you think will fill in on Channel Islands & Ireland routes and what about Isle of Man?

[LTNman]

The £90m Luton Airport - Dunstable busway opens on September 25th

Fast, frequent and reliable: Luton Dunstable Busway services to start on 25 September - Luton Borough Council (http://www.luton.gov.uk/news/Pages/Fast,-frequent-and-reliable-Luton-Dunstable-Busway-services-to-start-on-25-September.aspx)

[davidjohnson6]

Wallp - Easyjet confirmed they are picking up LGW-JER and LGW-INV and based on noises coming out of Govt, will likely pick up LGW-IOM. Aer Lingus, BA and Easyjet combined should absorb London-Belfast. BA fly London-Newcastle and the train is hourly taking 3 hours. Aurigny are expanding to fill LGW-GCI. LGW-Bergerac will likely be absorbed by Cityjet / Ryanair. Not sure about Newquay - possible Easyjet might run a summer daily LGW-NQY. BA and Easyjet combined should fill the London-Aberdeen demand - would need to argue well to see a need for 3 carriers when London-Glasgow has only 2.

How much of a gap is there for Flybe at Luton ?

[wallp]

Thanks David. Putting it like that I see what you mean. I hope it doesn't have an even worse effect on traffic on the remaining Flybe routes already existing at Luton, which i understand have already suffered losses in passenger numbers, as it would be a real shame to lose links to Jersey & Isle of Man

[Boeing737-8]

Clj148. G-lenm bae 146
Zt8082. G-powc. Boeing 737
Both came in around round 3:30
Anyone know why there were in coming in from Frankfurt

[compton3bravo]

Big motor show on in Frankfurt this week so could be connected as Cello Aviation is executive charter. Titan went out yesterday to Frankfurt return flight today.

[ericlday]

Maybe connected with that car manufacturer down the road !!!!

[Boeing737-8]

Anybody hoping to see the 777-200 will have to get up early as el211 will land at 4:55 in the morning

Tuesday 17th September
Ly312-777-200
Ly314-777-200
Ly212-767-300

[pabely]

Yom Kippur holidays, same every year.

[LTNman]

Some of the framework on Signatures new hangar is being bolted together for lifting into position later.

[LTNman]

I don’t know how long they have been gone but Honeywell Aerospace have closed their Luton Airport engine repair centre.

They came to Luton when Hatfield Aerodrome was closed and had large offices and workshops almost opposite Easyjet’s Flight Academy. They also had an engine run up bay next to the rear of Britannia’s hangar.

Honeywell's Luton facility is the largest repair and overhaul facility in Europe, Middle East and Africa for the ALF/LF 502/507 series turbofan engine, as installed in BAe146 and RJ regional aircraft. A state-of-the-art fan test cell supports our repair operations with testing capabilities up to 25,000lbs thrust.

[pabely]

Still listed as on office on their Website but can't think they would be getting much business if they only looked after 146/RJ engines.

[TSR2]

What other commercial aircraft (if any) have Honeywell engines ?

[pabely]

None I can think of.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I can name a few, the A300, A319, A320, A321, A350, B757, B767 & B777. :ok:

[SWBKCB]

and if commercial includes biz jets, F.2000, F.900, Challenger 300, HS125-700 series and upwards

[pabely]

Honeywell, well yes they supply some parts for the engines in the lists above but I don't think the question was about that.
I think the only true commercial airplane which has a Honeywell engine are the ones produced at hatfield. Once hatfield closed the engine operation moved to luton, as did most Biz Jet operations which were getting very successful in final years before the land redevelopment.

[LTNman]

Seems that this Luton repair centre engine also powers the Bombardier Challenger 600 Lycoming ALF 502 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoming_ALF_502) and was developed into the Honeywell LF 507 which powered the Avro RJ

Also Honeywell make lots of engine types https://commerce.honeywell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/NECategoryDisplay?catalogId=10251&storeId=10651&categoryId=53429&cacheId=1000000000000001&langId=-1

[Mr @ Spotty M]

It is the complete engine, on all the aircraft types l have listed.
Think about the :mad: end. :ugh:

[pabely]

Airbus = CFM/PW or IAE
Boeings = PW/RR or GE
I thought the original post was about the Lycoming fully made by Honeywell, not subcontracted parts.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

You still have not got it, have you?
Each of the aircraft that l have listed, have a smaller jet engine at the back end, it is called an APU. :ugh:
All those APU's come under Honeywell now and could have gone through the Luton establishment in one form or other.

[Level bust]

Perhaps if you had said that in the first place everyone would have known what you were talking about! I had not given APUs a thought.

[LTNman]

Announcing the deal with MAG at a London press conference, Mr O’Leary said charges were still “very high”.

He added: “We’ll be cutting some capacity at other airports for summer 2014 because there’s now incentive for us at Stansted to grow aggressively.


Luton to suffer?

[Buster the Bear]

They are only adding airframes that were removed with the spat during the BAA days and less than the 50+ once based. Will it affect Luton - I am sure AENA have a plan?

[Boeing737-8]

Luton does take its time confirming new routes
New Romanian flights from London Luton Airport - London Luton Airport (http://www.london-luton.co.uk/en/news/1/252/new-romanian-flights-from-london-luton-airport.html)

[pabely]

Can't see RYR removing any frames from Luton. When being SLF the 1/2/3 Gates are always packed. It would also give a negative impression which might result in others considering scooping up the same routes.

[pabely]

Deadline for the AENA purchase is 10 Oct, things to start moving from that point...

[LTNman]

Can't see RYR removing any frames from Luton. When being SLF the 1/2/3 Gates are always packed.

I can, while other London airports are striking up deals with Easyjet and Ryanair Luton has spent its time striking up a 10 year deal with National Express. All very well but it has to be a worry that I can't remember when the airport struck up any long term deal with Luton's main 3 carries including Wizz. With Easyjet and Ryanair now having commitments in place are there any deals left for Luton to grow?

[queenvic]

Wizz today start the new service Kosice-Luton. My mum-in-law is on it.
Lets hope the weather does not spoil the party.

Rain and slight possibility of fog at Luton later.:hmm:

[BlueA330]

Great to see a double 777 service today and a 767-300 from El Al , both should be on the ground together tonight

[LTNman]

Work started today erecting the steelwork for Signatures new hangar.

[Keyvon]

New operator for Luton: Carpatair is to open Luton-Chişinău (Moldova), two times weekly eff. from 19 December, using a 733 aircraft.

Flights are already bookable through GDS systems.

[TBSC]

Frequency of Wizz VNO-LTN will go up from 11 to 13/week from March when Vilnius base gets a 3rd aircraft.

[LTNman]

I don't know what Signature intend to put in their new hangar but looking at the size of the men working on it they will have no problem getting the tail of a Gulfstream to fit.

First picture was taken this morning and the second picture was taken at 16:30

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/600/oo6u.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/oo6u.jpg/)

The hangar is not yet at its full width.
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/9255/cztn.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/547/cztn.jpg/)

[Boeing737-8]

Have you got a link to this or this a rumour

[Powerjet1]

It is in the carpet air booking engine with late inbound and outbound flights, similar to Tarom. No doubt as a result of the expected influx due after 1 January

[davidjohnson6]

Kiv 2110 ltn 2240 ---4--7 v3 118
ltn 2355 kiv 0530+1 ---4--7 v3 117

Yes, I know that Kiev Zhulyiany (IEV) and Chisinau / Kishinev (KIV) have somewhat confusing IATA codes

Sorry about the lower case stuff - website seems to have decide that case must always match grammatical english - namely sentence starts with a capital and everything else is lower case

Unless there's an extra anti-social hours payment to crew, bit of a cr*ppy shift to be assigned to work. However, if the passengers have very little cash and are willing to put up with discomfort to save a few euros, then I guess all these late night departures from Luton to Bulgaria / Moldova / Romania are probably quite a good way for an airline to squeeze a few more hours of revenue service out of their aircraft

[FRatSTN]

As far as I know Tarom, Carpatair and some flights by Blue Air and El Al have departures around midnight. Even some WizzAir departures are very late, around 10pm.

Has there been a change of some sort since the sale from Abertis maybe to offer a financial incentive to operate in these late evening hours? It's not like capacity is tight in the daylight hours.

On a completely different note... I wonder if Luton is one of those airports Ryanair may be cutting capacity at in 2014 in light of the Stansted deal given the geography and that there has been very little change with just four aircraft and virtually no growth for many years.

Ryanair's network at Luton is also very dated in that it looks like the typical Ryanair base 10 years ago. It stands out as serving a very different route network to Ryanair's other UK bases.

There is not much other than a few random selections that for what ever reason Stansted either serves less frequently (eg. Kerry, Malta, Marrakech) or not at all (Beziers, Nimes & Trapani).

I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we actually saw them close the Luton base. I'm not sure they'd leave completely as I would expect maybe one or two routes like Dublin, Girona or Tenerife for example could stay with services by inbound aircraft from those bases.

It's just that there simply seems to have always been very little future for them at Luton, especially now after Monday's news. Also, as Ryanair say "there is now an incentive for them to grow at Stansted," maybe meaning there is now less of an incentive to stay at Luton??

To me it looks a bit like the situation that East Midlands had with EasyJet that led to them pulling out. That's my view of what could happen, so nobody think about biting my head off if you disagree, but I would be interested to know what other people think of this?

[Buster the Bear]

Why close a base that makes money?

[davidjohnson6]

FRatSTN - in answer to your question, Romania, Moldova, Bulgaria and Israel are all 2 hours ahead of the UK.
Looking for example at the Chisinau-Luton route, the flight departs Chisinau at 2110 Moldova time or 1910 UK time and lands in Luton at 2240 local time or 0040 Moldova time. The aircraft then depart Luton at 2355 UK time or 0155 Moldova time and lands in Chisinau at 0530 Moldova time or 0330 UK time.
During this round trip, there has been 3h30 + 3h35 = 7h05 - ie earning revenue from passengers who bought tickets.

Suppose instead the aircraft left Chisinau at 2110 for Bucharest and then returned back to Chisinau at 2300 for the night with the next departure at 0600. If this happened, the aircraft has been flying (and thus earning revenue from passenger tickets) for perhaps 1h30 instead of 7h05. This means that rather than letting a valuable aircraft spend 5h35 sitting on tarmac doing nothing, Carpatair have got a load of higher ticket revenues instead.

Sure there are more miles in the logs and at the next maintenance check likely more work to do, but this is still an aircraft earning sizeable revenue and hopefully helping annual profits for the airline rather than just sitting on the ground doing nothing.

[Powerjet1]

Why close a base that makes money?

True, but maybe now they can make MORE money at Stansted. Certainly, as a base, it is probably one of the most stagnant in terms of growth and I would think now, it is probably at its most vulnerable.

I notice from mid december, Dublin is down to just two daily flights, seven days a week.

[LTNman]

Well I can see Ryanair's Luton base going with maybe Ryanair keeping the Dublin route with a Dublin based aircraft. This puts pressure on Luton to do a new deal with Ryanair but as Ryanair has found out with new owners Aena they don't always play ball.


I would have also thought that merging bases saves money.

[Boeing737-8]

There would keep 1 or 2 aircraft at luton as some routes have a lot of profit

[compton3bravo]

Actually this summer the Ryanair programe out of Luton has seen a slight rise due to an increase in W flights, eg. Malta, Gerona, Trapani and the odd Dublin. I would think if the routes are making money why change it. Also with the ´´expansion´´ at Stansted next summer everybody seems to expect the extra passengers to be just waiting to fly Ryanair, well with the publicity know one wants at the moment (Which etc) we´ll just have to wait and see.
I see the airport has don rather well with football charters this week - Basle and Tromso teams plus Arsenal of course and also a couple of charters to Barcelona (Enter and French Post)

[FRatSTN]

Some interesting points people, thank you.

That's another point actually. Ryanair's presence is up this year but it in fairness has been going slightly up and slightly down for years. Dublin for example has been up to 4 daily before, now as low as 2 this winter.

For the last 6 or 7 years they have always done best just to stay on at Luton because Stansted was hardly a more attractive alternative. There has been no incentive to shift traffic from Luton to Stansted for at least that length of time.

Now that has changed, my gut feeling is that within the next few years at most, Ryanair may start going away from Luton now that there is that incentive at their biggest base for them. Luton only really lies in the way and is a barrier to some of that growth, especially with the lack of aircraft deliveries presently.

As LTNman kinds of points out what O'Leary has said "some services will have to relocate [to Stansted] from other airports." This may just mean traffic from other bases across Europe, but may it not insinuate services from Luton and routes like Beziers or Nimes shifting to Stansted??

Of course Ryanair makes money at Luton, but it isn't all about that. There is no future, the future lies next door. Luton serves a decreasing purpose as a Ryanair base now.

EasyJet made good money at East Midlands but like Ryanair's Luton base, growth just stagnated. They moved aircraft elsewhere where they simply had more of a future, not because they weren't making money.

The future of Ryanair it seems in the UK is with MAG at Stansted, East Midlands and Manchester, now their UK top 3 I believe. Liverpool and Edinburgh as well maybe, the other bases seem much less involved in Ryanair growth.