LUTON - 7

[boeing_eng]

Being a big user of TUI Thomson flights from Luton, they must average >90% all the time. I'm sure if they based another frame they would have no problem filling it - is it just the travel agent arm discounts LGW?

I'm also sure TOM would have no problem selling the program for another LTN based aircraft. However, like every other airline, the company will always fly aircraft from bases which will give the best overall return. Other factors to be considered include based crew numbers (and the difference between the summer/winter program), engineering cover and airport/handling costs.

Historically, TOM has actually kept the same overall summer capacity at LTN since the 737-200 was retired back in the early 90's. At that time around six aircraft were based (two of which were kept busy on the MOD charters to Germany which ceased when the type was withdrawn) From then on, two 757's were based (with a 767 occasionally swapping or operating MCO flights etc) More recently, its been a mix of one 757 and two 737's in the summer giving a greater range of destinations.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

All the best Mr. Bust - your clear and concise transmissions will be very much missed.

Will you be taking up "spotting" like our mutual friend ... despite all his denials?:rolleyes:

OLY1B

[Level bust]

I will be seeking advice from Mr Bear on the subject of spotting.

Seriously, thank you to everyone over the many years, both those that listen and more importantly those that I have attempted to 'control' for putting up with my ramblings!

[ericlday]

LB..a happy and healthy retirement and whatever you plan to do make sure you enjoy yourself.

[compton3bravo]

Here, here to that.

[Buster the Bear]

Me a spotter! In denial! I will book the hotel tomorrow night on Mr Bust's credit card!

AirBlue......it is gonna happen!

Anyway, off to torture Stanley just a bit more and get some tips on how to get a blue rinse from an ole dear I know! Maybe it should be HairBlue!

[ericlday]

The air is often blue in our household.

[gilesdavies]

Hi Guys,

Was dropping a family member off at the airport this morning. Not been there in a few months...

Was surprised to see no work has commenced on the front of the terminal, as I thought they were filling in the gap where the buses drop off. Also the same drop off zone and layout has not changed.

I thought all the work was due to be complete by the start of next summers timetable???

That only gives them four to five months to get the taxiways and terminal extended, new parking spaces and a multi-storey built. Call me cynical, but I think getting all that done, in that timeframe is near impossible, unless they temporarily close the airport for a few months.

[Powerjet1]

They haven't put in the planning application yet, although I think that is imminent. From memory, I don't think any major work is due to start until the autumn next year and that is obviously assuming planning approval is not held up

[gilesdavies]

Ohhh sorry, your completely right...

I don't know where in my head that came from, was a little premature in my thoughts!

Must be the 4am start that did that to me!

[LTNman]

Turkish Cargo are operating into Luton twice a week. These are on different days and times to MNG

http://wwwdownload.thy.com/kargo/pdf/cargo_schedule_summer_2012.pdf

MNG AIRLINES - SERVICES (http://www.mngairlines.com/eng/services.aspx)

[gilesdavies]

Turkish Cargo are operating into Luton twice a week. These are on different days and times to MNG

Thats likely to translate into some more widebodies for the airport as they operate A310's and A330's for their freight flights... :)

If only this translated into passenger flights... Turkish Airlines are turning into the new Emirates, flying from a number of UK airports to their Istanbul hub and offering worldwide connections to Africa, Middle East and Asia.

Probably a pipe dream, but would be great if is happened and they would probably be the most likely carrier to offer this sort of service from Luton, as unlike the other Middle Eastern carriers they use 737's, A320's and A321's on their UK to Istanbul services and makes it far easier to fill than a widebodied aircraft.

Anyway, I'll keep dreaming! :zzz:

[Dannyboy39]

Looking at those timings, the NIMBYs arent going to be pleased to hear an A310 coming over at that time!!

[pabely]

Turkish Airlines would be a good fit for Luton, it would complement their services from other London airports and as El Al has shown you can run scheduled from multiple London airports.
Additionally it would be a Star Alliance member which might help in building some more routes from other members.

[adfly]

I could maybe see I daily 737/8 or A319/20 from them at most, don't forget they have 4(?) flights per day from LHR already, with some on A330's plus 2 738/A321's from LGW. Its also worth pointing out that much of the North London traffic to Turkey seems to prefer STN seen as they have twice daily flights with Pegasus plus some of their more holiday oriented ones, along with EZY and TOM/TCX. Although what with STN having lost TK and also Atlasjet from January, who knows!

[LTNman]

With a 05:15 departure time could it be that Luton was the only London airport that would accept them as Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted are night flight regulated?

[Lee Baker Street]

I thought I would look up a holiday at random (identical for three departure airports) for a family of 4 staying on the same dates and identical hotel and same airline, I discovered the following prices:

STN- £2832.00
LGW- £2580.00
LTN- £2412.00

Thats a difference from the cheapest to most expensive of £420.00 making Luton a far better option!

[LTNman]

Yes but what about the times of the flights?

Unless things have changed over the last couple of years this is quite rare. Just thumb the supplements section of the brochures usually shows large differences but maybe the holiday companies have woken up to the Low cost carriers taking away their business.

[TSR2]

Yes but what about the times of the flights?

Good point, but at least it is a cheaper option which may be a more cost effective choice overall for many people.

[LGS6753]

There are lots of potential variables that affect tour operators' pricing. Such as:

- same day of the week, same time
- same date
- based airline, in-house airline, competing airline
- scheduled, loco or charter flight

There may also be local variables ('Vauxhall fortnight'), or variables only affecting certain destinations, so a wider sample size is needed to make a fair comparison.

[sxflyer]

It might also be that the Stansted flights are selling very well and are quite full, whereas the Luton ones are not

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons!

[LTNman]

Well that's one way of looking at it except I don't think the likes of Thomson follow the low cost airlines pricing model.

Maybe the Essex farmers have money to burn.

[pabely]

I think you will find all LTN flights on TOM are >90% full, perhaps other factors at play here, what departure times (may have released more capacity as MON have) and what suppliments have been added?
Anyhow you seem happy with the price so enjoy your family holiday!

[Lee Baker Street]

I have yet to decide if we go to Tunisa?
LTN £3,834 or STN £3,918

Then we were considering Madeira:
LGW 3,596 or Luton £3,320

I guess the point I am making is that by no means is flying from Gatwick or Stansted necessary cheaper.

The above were random destinations with the same airline on the same day and exact accommodation.

Admittedly I do not have the time to check the flight times though admit prefer mid morning departures but either way I have flown after midnight so don't mind either way.

Luton was once the UK's busiest holiday airport-I would like to see the current airport management 'grab' this traffic back, because it is still out there as Gatwick demonstrates.

[LTNman]

The first proper snow of this winter has arrived at Luton this morning. 400m visibility in moderate snow. Airport closed for snow clearance.

[Mr @ Spotty M]

No surprise, the forecast last night was a dusting, well had about 1 in or more and the roads are deadly. :=
Just given up on my drive into work at the airport, l bet the roads to the airport are near impossible to drive on, hills are not good in snow. :{
Good luck to anyone trying to get to and from the airport this morning. :ok:

[LTNman]

Luton is open now

[TBSC]

The same old story again and again and again. It's winter. It' snowing. It's slippery. Locals never heard of winter tires. The horrible (160 m elevation) "hill" at LTN can not be reached by car. Airport is closed for 2 cm of snow. When it's declared "open" no one can land as none of the first wave flights departed and there are no stands available. 8 Wizz flights diverted (5 to BHX, 1 to LGW, 1 to LPL, 1 to BRU (!). The same old story again and again and again each year.

[compton3bravo]

You thought Luton had problems have you seen the number of flights cancelled at Stansted this morning! I think some of the Wizz did a splash and dash at other airports but notice that three outbound flights were cancelled.

[Captinbirdseye]

I dont think it was necessarily the airports fault for the closures today, it was more due to the lack of warning and the amount of snow which seemed to catch out the weather forecasters and therefore the airports suffered. Ryanair have always been quick to cancel flights, so a bit harsh to blame Stansted for amount of cancellations. Would rather be delayed a couple than trying to slow down on a slippery runway! I gather SOU was closed for a short time this morning as well.

[gilesdavies]

I think the flight supplement comparisons done above is a little difficult to compare, as others have mentioned.

Tour operators base their basic prices for a package usually from a "London Airport", and not necessarily Gatwick...

Gatwick usually has far more frequencies of charter flights to the popular destination likes of Tenerife, Faro, Palma, etc... Maybe flying 4-6 times a week and only once or twice a week from Luton.

The NIL supplement flights will usually be based on the most anti-social flights to the destination, which are going to be the least popular. For example a flight to Palma departing a London Airport at around 10-11pm and flying back from Palma at 3am.

Due to the shear number of flights and frequencies from Gatwick these flights are more likely to be from there.

I thought I would look up a holiday at random (identical for three departure airports) for a family of 4 staying on the same dates and identical hotel and same airline, I discovered the following prices:

STN- £2832.00
LGW- £2580.00
LTN- £2412.00

Did you check other flights from Gatwick for the same week to the same destination and hotel? As they may have had a flight to this destination on another day with an even lower supplement from Gatwick than the Luton option.

[LTNman]

I see there was a departure to Southend today on the departure board. Would this be a proving flight for a new service from London Luton to the east coast? :E:E

[Dannyboy39]

On weather cancellations, just looking at the weather forecast for the next week, there could be significant disruption to services both from Stansted and Luton, if not at the other London airports too.

Substantial snowfall expected due to "the beast from the East"; an extremely cold air setup coming down from Scandinavia.

Schipol are already cancelling services tomorrow morning.

[CabinCrewe]

That far out forecasts are inaccurate. Beast from the east is a figment of weather spotter forums !

[Buster the Bear]

Kursaal Flyer!

How about the Bear to the west?

[pabely]

Can't see any snow forecast at Luton for the next 7 days! Nor Southend or Stansted, maybe a little in Norwich.

[runway08]

Been snowing the last 20 minutes, never trust a weather forecast. Lucky it was drizzling before hand because these big flakes would have set by now.

[LGS6753]

Over on the IOM thread, it's reported that FlyBe are stopping LTN-IOM from early Jan. If true, will this affect LTN-JER too?

[davidjohnson6]

LGS - the Luton-Jersey is also suspende from early Jan to end of March

[runway08]

Any ideas what the big news from Easyjet will be at Luton Airport tommorow?

[Powerjet1]

Maybe it is something to do with this. A snippet taken from the Anglia TV website......

"Luton-based airline easyJet is launching a plane with a team of Santa Clauses to celebrate raising over a million pounds for the children's charity UNICEF.

The money was raised through passenger donations and will help the charity protect mothers and children against seven deadly childhood diseases, including tetanus".

M

[pabely]

The UNICEF coloured Airbus was sitting on apron yesterday.
Latest news - easyJet plc (http://corporate.easyjet.com/media/latest-news/news-year-2012/13-12-2012a-en.aspx?sc_lang=en)

[gilesdavies]

Any ideas what the big news from Easyjet will be at Luton Airport tommorow?

Damn...

Got my hopes up for some big announcement, of new routes or expansion from the airport...

Don't get me wrong, the UNICEF thing is great news for the airline and charity, but was hoping the news would benefit the airport and possibly be growth.

[D7666]

Re IOM by coincidence I was looking at Luton to IOM for late January but Flybe web site shows nothing after 07/01/13.

--
Nick

[pabely]

I think it restarts on 12th April

[pabely]

Looks like the Airport operator has submitted an incomplete application for expansion to the council for approval.
Thus nothing until next year now!?

[ericlday]

'incomplete application for expansion' - does that mean they did not include the plans for the 4 runway in the application !!!!!!

[pabely]

Why of course not, only the two runway one but it got lost as it was done on the back of an old £50 note and was mistaken as a bribe!:E

[LTNman]

Looks like the Airport operator has submitted an incomplete application for expansion to the council for approval.
Thus nothing until next year now!?

More info here Luton Airport operator submits incomplete application - News - The Comet (http://www.thecomet.net/news/luton_airport_operator_submits_incomplete_application_1_1741 676)

[Dannyboy39]

I think the NIMBYs are clutching at straws at this one. I dare say incomplete applications happen relatively often and a resubmission will have no impact on the validity of the bid.

As for The Comet - should they really be fronting a campaign like that? Whatever sells papers!

[D7666]

>>I think it restarts on 12th April

Ahh thanks, flights for mid-May are there, pity that won't help my mid Feb. need.

--
Nick

[Lee Baker Street]

It is unfortunate, that airlines continue to reduce domestic services from Luton. As an example passenger levels for October to the IOM from Luton were down 32% when compared to last year (loss of 631 pax) whilst Gatwick increased by 32% to handle an extra 3,532 pax which possibly is due to Easyjets new service. 'Reduced demand' therefore is misleading? Luton's management need to offer 'real incentives' to attract new carriers before we end up as London's white elephant!

[LGS6753]

November provisional stats:

ATMs (v LY)
November 4,852 (+4.1%)
Rolling year 71,945 (no change)

Passengers (v LY)
November 617,432 (+3.2%)
Rolling year 9,615,526 (+1.8%)

Comparators:
EDI down
BHX up
STN further down.

[pabely]

Put your bets down for when it breaks the 10M again?

[nt639]

STN further down

Not quite correct there, the monthly total was up 6.2% on November last year V Luton 3.2% Stansted: Airport (http://www.eadt.co.uk/business/stansted_airport_s_passenger_numbers_return_to_growth_1_1738 062)

[gilesdavies]

Put your bets down for when it breaks the 10M again?

I think the airport will be scraping under the 10 million mark for another year, and any increase in number (if any) will be minimal.

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but its not like so far we are seeing a whole raft of new destinations and additional capacity being added to the airport.

We are seeing the usual tweaking of schedules for the summer, with easyJet offering new routes to Olbia and Mykonos, but like usual there doesn't seem to be any new aircraft and just cutting the schedules of other routes to accommodate these.

It doesn't look Adria are coming back next year to fly the Ljubljana service, also with loosing the Aer Arrann services and FlyBE cutting theres for several months. This will be a drop of several thousand a month.

If you look at the Thomson brochure, the flight programme for TOM doesn't look at busy as previous years. With fewer destinations and frequencies the the Costas, etc...

I think Wizzair is likely to be the only airline to grow at the airport next year, and to be fair to them I think this will be less than previous years, they are focussing growth at present out of Budapest... To continue their dominance as a replacement to the now defunct Malev and replace some the Ryanair routes, after the airline reduced their services from there recently.

I do however notice Monarch are continuing the Rome and Munich services. But again, I don't think their is additional metal to fly these routes and just a tweak in the schedules.

[LTNman]

You can have too much of a good thing. I think Luton is ticking along nicely in most areas and passenger numbers are around the right level to max out the terminal for some of the time without causing too much overcrowding. Spare capacity will be needed when work starts next year on upgrading the airport as no doubt there will be areas closed off for building work.

The airport needs to look at why Gatwick is so popular when all things are equal in getting to and from both airports, as it is clear that passengers have a clear preference for Gatwick over Luton and it isn’t difficult to see why.

One area of concern for me is the airports rail link. Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, London City and Southend all have stations at the airport while Luton does not but these airports are not without issues.

Gatwick with its two terminals means that many passengers have to catch a shuttle train to swap terminals so they can get to the station. As the shuttle runs every few minutes this isn’t a big deal but it still adds to the total travel time as there is another component to their journey.

Stansted involves an extended rail travel time for what is basically just a 32 mile trip to the capital.

Southend is even worse with even a longer journey in both distance and time and a service that many passengers just can’t use because the rail operator only operates for around 18 hours a day in each direction with no early or late services.

Then we come to Luton with its 24/7, 7 trains an hour rail service to the capital with a travel time in as little as 22 minutes and a direct link to London stations that most airports can only dream of. The big issue is the shuttle bus. There used to be 4 high density flexi -busses used for the service and it used to be free. Now it is down to just 2 flexi-busses with 2 standard busses and the cost is £2. Gone are the days of just jumping on the bus as many passengers who don’t buy through tickets have to queue to buy a bus ticket.

Also while the airport station can be reached non-stop in 22 minutes this is an hourly service operated by East Midland trains. This needs at least doubling in frequency as the service is so good.

Both these issues seem to be the airports weak link.:(

[pabely]

On the positive side, Are not El AL increasing capacity?

Also met with a friend on Sunday who had a great experiance with Wizz & Luton airport. He lives in Reading and uses all London airports all of the time on business (not Luton in the past). From arriving at gate to stepping into his car parked at a friends house in South Luton he said was 20mins! He said he has told his company to use Luton more has he was very impressed compared with LHR & LGW! Ok he had no hold luggage and was lucking having free parking a couple of miles away but he said he would spread the word, he works for a multi-national with 5K plus UK employees.:ok:

[Powerjet1]

On the positive side, Are not El AL increasing capacity?

Yes . From March, 6x wkly throughout the year, increasing to 11 x wkly for the summer peak. This means that in certain weeks of the summer, there will be up to 20 flights a week to TLV, when you factor in easy flights as well.

[compton3bravo]

Also the new Wizz Lublin service started today.

[lutonboi]

monarch

new destination for winter 2013/14 from luton.
sharm el sheikh 3 x weekly

[Dannyboy39]

I thought LTN-SSH was already being operated by ZB? Perhaps on an ad-hoc basis?

[compton3bravo]

Nope. easyJet operate scheduled services to Sharm from Luton. I cannot remember Monarch operating charters there from Luton.

[LGS6753]

EZY & TOM have been operating LTN-SSH.

[Buster the Bear]

Merry 'Buster' Christmas

http://i45.tinypic.com/17bgis.jpg

[pabely]

Too U2! :-)

[Espada III]

Flew from Luton for the first time in many years this week and landed last night.

Thoughts: -

Fairly pleasant check in and departure areas, security was reasonably smooth despite being a very busy time (morning of 24th Dec). However, duty free and eating areas did not have enough seats to accommodate everyone and people were forced to sit on the floor. Gate areas as I would expect from a Lo-Cost base (like Liverpool).

Arrivals made it look like a third world airport. A longish external walk in the cold wind to a door, then up stairs to a shabby corridor and down stairs again to a bare UK Border hall. Welcome to the UK?? It seems domestic arrivals have a better route, but how many domestic arrivals are there?

Why no covered walkway to the car parks. In both directions we were cold and/or wet walking to/from the terminal. If Liverpool can manage a multi-storey, surely Luton can?

[TSR2]

If Liverpool can manage a multi-storey

But you still get wet walking to the terminal if it's raining.

[LTNman]

Hopefully your issues will be addressed during the airports expansion work which should start in 2013. There are certainly new seating areas being created airside once the terminal is expanded and work will also be carried out in the arrivals to also expand that area.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

Does anyone know what happened with one of the EZY's yesterday? Saw it surrounded by fire engines at one point...

[22 Degree Halo]

Oil leak..

[pabely]

Why did Flybe put a E170 on IOM route today, loads that good (then give up for 3 months)?

[richlit]

hi all, a happy new year to you.this is my first post. the swizz easyjet that came in had a engine bearing failure.it took off from geneva I do not know where it was going to.richard

[OltonPete]

The replay facility on flightradar24 shows that it left GVA around 12.30 UK time heading for EDI I believe.

At approx 13.30 emergency squawk 7700 was showing near Stansted and descent started from 38000 ft in a holding pattern to the north of STN.

It landed Luton 14.10 approx and closed the airport briefly I understand with easyjet HAM-LTN diverting to Stansted and a Monarch A320 held for about 40 minutes but landed.

EDI departures just showed delayed on the outbound GVA at the time.

The aircraft left Luton today at 13.14 as EZS9002 (empty) but is already back in service on GVA-SCQ.

Pete

[euromanxdude]

E170 was operating scheduled JER-LTN JER with JER based aircraft/ crew.
Regards

[pabely]

OK, ta, must have been the BE164 rather than the BE162.

[Powerjet1]

Looks like the full planning application re expansion is now availablefor viewing on PublicAccess v7.4 @ Luton Borough Council (http://www.eplan.luton.gov.uk). Ref 12/01400/FUL

[ericlday]

Well there is a lot of night time reading in that application, no doubt we will have our comments in due course....happy reading...............

[LGS6753]

Press release on Luton Airport website:

Results of Public Consultation and Planning Application at London Luton Airport

Published: 07 January 2013

London Luton Airport Operations Ltd (“LLAOL”) today announces the findings of the public consultation on its Masterplan to develop capacity to 18 million passengers per year.

During the course of the consultation, LLAOL received a total of 1,360 responses from local, national and international businesses, local residents, local chambers of commerce, trade unions, airline partners, holiday makers and business passengers.

A total of 884 respondents (65%) said they supported the Airport’s development proposals. They were in favour because of the economic benefits to the region, employment generation associated with the proposals, private inward investment and improvements to the Airport’s infrastructure. Of the 380 respondents (28%) who said they were not supportive of the Masterplan, the key reasons they gave included the potential impact of increased noise and additional night flights. 94 respondents (7%) said they were undecided.

LLAOL has taken all feedback it received seriously, and used it to improve and amend its planning application by adding two further mitigation measures to the six new noise initiatives it has already proposed. They are:

The introduction of a new quota and aircraft movement limit for night time flights to bring London Luton Airport in line with other, designated UK airports.

A reduction in noise violation limits, and the introduction of a fining system for aircraft breaching these limits, effective from 2014/2015, and not 2018 as was planned.

Glyn Jones, Managing Director of the Airport said: “LLAOL has listened to the local community and has put in place a robust plan to deliver a balanced, sustainable development, which offers a number of significant economic and social benefits, including the creation of approximately 5,100 new jobs, increasing value to the local economy, and improving the built environment of the Airport”.

A full report on the consultation is contained in LLAOL’s Statement of Community Involvement (“SCI”) and is included in the planning application that LLAOL submitted to Luton Borough Council’s Planning Department on 30 November, 2012. The planning application can now be viewed at PublicAccess v7.4 @ Luton Borough Council (http://www.eplan.luton.gov.uk) (Application reference: 12/01400/FUL).

[pabely]

Public back London Luton Airport's Masterplan (http://www.airport-world.com/news-articles/item/2206-public-back-london-luton-airports-masterplan)

[Powerjet1]

The proposed frontage to the terminal, created by the extension and link between the old and new terminal, whilst continuing the wave theme with glass and cladding, seems much more appealing to the eye. Hopefully ,the improvements inside the building will significantly improve the passenger experience as well.

[pabely]

The new quota for nighttime movements will restict some cargo and VVIP traffic, I assume?

[LGS6753]

The plans (all 167 of them) are extremely detailed, and can be zoomed-in on to the extent that individual urinals are shown.:8

They give a good idea of how the new terminal will 'work', with a significant increase in inbound baggage belts, security checking channels, and of course retail outlets. The onward travel centre moves outside, and will be adjacent to the link to Pier B.

The number of aircraft stands (excluding FBO parking and cargo) will rise to 50, although this includes the stands currently under construction for Ocean Sky. The stands 16 & 16L may be returned to airline use (as 4 stands), and there will be 6 airline stands on the south apron.

I expect these improvements to proceed as quickly as possible, so work could commence later in 2013.

[pabely]

3 phases up to 2028......

BBC News - Luton Airport expansion: 65% back plans in consultation (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-20937640)

Nice pichure......

But if things go well expect this expansion much sooner. FBO's more as well??

[Dannyboy39]

You're not going to please everybody. Despite all the efforts to mitigate noise, people will still moan and complain every single day.

The planning application should be a formality, but why does it have to take FIFTEEN YEARS to do that?

[LTNman]

The work involved is a massive undertaking. I note that the revised bus station has nose in parking. That will be interesting when the flexibuses want to reverse out.

[Buster the Bear]

Rumours of apron type floodlighting going into the short term car park. Is this to deter thieves or the first phase of this becoming apron?

[LTNman]

No doubt advice from the airport's insurance company as a way to better protect the airport from accident claims if less people fall down the car park's potholes.

[Falcon666]

Nice to see there's a Airlinair flight in this afternoon.
Presumably it's bringing in Castres rugby team for the Northampton game tomorrow.
As they operate ATRs wonder if anyone from the airport might chat them up about picking up the Waterford route!plenty of airports in France where we could do with a link that they operate from!!!

[gilesdavies]

The NIMBY's are screaming out foul play in the latest consultation for the airports expansion...

Surprise! Surprise! (NOT)

BBC News - Luton Airport expansion: Consultation 'flawed and misleading' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-21012389)

Im liking the Artists Impression of how the Terminal will look from the front, if the expansion gets the go-ahead!

--------------------------------------------------------------

On a separate note, how has the airport been faring with today's snow?! This board has been surprisingly quiet for a Snow Day! :p

[ericlday]

Giles - Snoclo for a short period this afternoon, 8 or 9 holding but nowt diverted (I think !)

[pabely]

Think things worked Ok, it was forecast and a bit of sightseeing in the East but it was swept then business as usual.

[TBSC]

A couple of flights waiting 2 hours for de-icing in light snow and 0 C does not worth mentioning. ;)

[pabely]

3 collegues over from Prague today, had a great laugh about how that <10 centimetes of snow causes such concern! :-)

[LTNman]

I had a look at the proposed landscaping plan and have come to the conclusion that the grass and tree location shown on the artists impression do not exist on any plans.

[LGS6753]

From Travel Mole:

Opponents to Luton airport's 'MasterPlan' extension scheme claim 73% of people actually oppose the plans, contrary to the airport's claims.
Hertfordshire Against Luton Expansion, (HALE) says that the airport included a block of responses from airlines, staff and people associated with the airport to create the 65% in favour statistics, see previous story.
And they say the Government is believing what they call the airport's 'spin'.
Kathryn Hale, said: "A lot of the people in Glyn Jones' statistics who agree to it have links to the airport eg staff and stakeholders.
"In fact, 73% of the independent public oppose the plans. These plans should be called in by government as a Nationally Significantly Infrastructure Project."
These are major infrastructure developments where the ultimate decision is made by a Government Minister.
She added: "There will be nothing to stop foreign airlines using Luton, flying in their own staff to avoid tax etc. But the Government don't care. They believe Luton's spin."
Hale are opposed to the expansion plans due to noise, traffic congestion, pollution and their claim that it will export British jobs overseas.
But Luton airport just reiterated that of the 1,360 responses - 884 (65%) were in favour.
A spokesman said: "All the information is openly available from PublicAccess v7.4 @ Luton Borough Council (http://www.eplan.luton.gov.uk) (Application reference: 12/01400/FUL). Table 3.1, page 6 in the 'Statement of Community Involvement' lays out the consultation response."

The prize for utter nonsense goes to...

There will be nothing to stop foreign airlines using Luton, flying in their own staff to avoid tax etc

Ye Gods!! What are these people smoking?

[OltonPete]

Source: CAA provisional stats

Luton December pax 639534 down 0.1% - rolling year (2012) 9614423 +1.1%

Pete

[Buster the Bear]

Considering the market has been flat, credible figures from Luton. With all the cash the airport is generating for LBC, they must be delighted!

[LTNman]

Sign our petition: Luton Airport expansion - News - The Comet (http://www.thecomet.net/news/sign_our_petition_luton_airport_expansion_1_1792926)

[Dannyboy39]

Newspapers in trying to pander to readers shock.

[Lee Baker Street]

The figures for the airport are very good for the financial year. In order to beat the best figure of 10,180,734 the airport needs to generate 566,312 passengers extra this year or on average 12 extra flights a day. I hope this can be achieved.

Dannyboy, why the Comet panders to residents of Flamstead is beyond me but hey! I do my bit at least to counter act the likes of LADICAN and HALE.

It is ironic that I live in South Luton where I hear every departure or arrival and even taxying-irrelevant of what runway is in use, yet they hear just some and most certainly not all flights. I wonder if the airport should consider changing the departure route slightly or spread departure routes so that occasionly some departures turn right after take off and not left? I have seen about 12 departures take off over the town centre over the years.

[Falcon666]

Looks unlikely the airport will hit 10million again this year.
Unless new routes are announced soon just cant see it happening.
Wizz seem to have peaked for the moment.
Hellas still not bookable and still no news on a Waterford replacement.
Easy had a re jigging to get the two new routes and Ryanair bought back Marrakesh.
El Al's extra flights will help but won't be enough.

As it happens it might be for the best if work starts on the expansion later this summer.

[LTNman]

I see a large banner incorporating an artist impression of Signatures new FPO has been attached to their hangar that faces the security gate.

[Scrotchidson]

I wonder if the airport should consider changing the departure route slightly or spread departure routes so that occasionly some departures turn right after take off and not left? I have seen about 12 departures take off over the town centre over the years.

Wouldn't happen unfortunately unless the Dunstable Gliding Site closes down. Those 12 you saw were most likely weather avoiding, VFR or Dunstable was closed and a right turn was coordinated with radar before departure

[LTNman]

Signature Flight Support London Luton to Construct State of the Art FBO Complex (http://www.aviationpros.com/press_release/10854779/signature-flight-support-london-luton-to-construct-state-of-the-art-fbo-complex).

The photo can be opened up.

[Dannyboy39]

Looked like the vast majority of the time the airport remained open. Well done the LLAOL ops team for keeping the airport running smoothly. Looking over the airfield a couple of times today from my limited vantage point; see a fair bit of lying snow on the unused part of the stands. The lines kept clear. Visibility was also poor.

[LTNman]

The snow was quite fine and not sticky and while the event lasted all day it was controllable.

[gilesdavies]

Looks like it has been confirmed that Stansted Airport has been sold to the MAG Group, for the bargain price of £1.5 billion!

The new owners have got a battle on their hands to stop the continuing drop in passenger numbers and attract new airlines...

I have a bad feeling this could come at the expense of LTN, especially if they could offer one of the airports existing airlines a great deal to move there.

[Falcon666]

Only time will tell Giles!!
Luton management have known for a while it was coming and should be prepared.Hopefully they have good working relationships with the airlines using the airport.
Guess it depends on MAG and what they want, a pure low cost airport or something similar to Manchester.
I think they will try and attract more legacy carriers and look for long haul options rather than try for example to entice Wizz over.
Of the Airlines at LTN ,Blue Air,El Al both came from STN and have done well enough not to return.
It's a case of Luton matching Stansted in price.If they do the geographical benefits of using Luton are IMHO far better.
Once the expansion goes ahead and the facilities improve there is no reason why Luton shouldn't be a airport of choice!

Anyway MAG has to placate Ryanair first,that won't necessarily be the easiest task!!!

[Dannyboy39]

If the expansion of LTN doesn't go ahead (which I believe it will), a group of airlines that may be thinking about joining LTN and a couple of established carriers, may see STN as the way forward?

No real chance of expansion and obviously higher fees at LTN due to supply and demand.

This 75% of people not wanting the expansion - its a case of be careful what you wish for. The airport is the biggest provider of jobs in the area - not allowing LTN to expand will have far reaching consequences.

[LTNman]

It's a done deal. The start date might get put back a little but I have no doubt it will happen.

[Captinbirdseye]

Dare I say.. the times of Loyalty in business are very much gone now. With airlines pockets tightening, this will be which airport will offer the best value for money for the airlines. We all criticise MOL (me included) but he says in public what most board members from other airlines say in the background.
I wish LTN Luck in securing expansion though.

[Buster the Bear]

In the current market which is flat, keeping your market share is the priority, growing it is an added bonus.

[Lee Baker Street]

Captainbirdseye,
Loyalty among business may have diminished but the fact Luton has proved there is a demand from the public who I am sure predominantly use the airport due to locality and choice of destination, will no doubt also have a bearing on airlines who might want to re-locate. A few years ago I remember MAG stating in public they will not (excuse the language) 'prostitute' themselves to the likes of Ryanair. I am sure they stand by that statement today unless they have lost their 'values', however I think MAG will be looking to secure and focus on long haul routes that currently are operating to both Heathrow and Gatwick?

[Dannyboy39]

Why would a long haul airline want to use Stansted?

-There isn't huge business potential unlike the other London airports, especially Heathrow.
-There isn't any feed from partner airlines. Short haul traffic from Ryanair won't transfer.
-People already use Heathrow! Why would they use an airport that is further away with less choice?

Ryanair "own" 70% of the passengers that currently use Stansted. MOL effectively "owns" the airport - not MAG. He can do what he likes. This is what happens when you're over-reliant on one airline. A situation I'd hope Luton would be hell bent to avoid.

That post on the Manchester thread is an excellent read.

[Lee Baker Street]

Dannyboy39, very recently MOL received a stern telling off from his superior-so the boss (if anyone) is Davis Bonderman! I personally do not think Luton has anything to worry about with MAG now owning STN but in turn I hope also that Luton will keep on growing. In relation to partner airlines- Easyjet (with no partner) feed long haul traffic at Gatwick and from a recent article are looking to expand in this area.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "Captainbirdseye,
Loyalty among business may have diminished but the fact Luton has proved there is a demand from the public who I am sure predominantly use the airport due to locality and choice of destination, will no doubt also have a bearing on airlines who might want to re-locate. A few years ago I remember MAG stating in public they will not (excuse the language) 'prostitute' themselves to the likes of Ryanair. I am sure they stand by that statement today unless they have lost their 'values', however I think MAG will be looking to secure and focus on long haul routes that currently are operating to both Heathrow and Gatwick?"

Not Heathrow, any long haul carrier that's there already isn't leaving! As for Gatwick, would say that's doubtful too, as they're either in the "waiting room" for Heathrow slots, or happy staying put for now (e.g. BA and VS West Indies services).

Why? Simple, Heathrow has the required connectivity and the premium business which provide the bulk of most airlines' profits.

The "no-frills" buisness model (and all-cargo operations) do not require these, that's why Stansted is an ideal base for them.

http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/reply_small.gif (http://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=7647854&noquote=1)

[LGS6753]

Wizzair, currently operating 144 rotations per week, will have increased this to 178 by the beginning of June. No additional destinations in that period.

[Narrow Runway]

Wizz: a LTN base soon, perhaps?

[North West]

A few years ago I remember MAG stating in public they will not (excuse the
language) 'prostitute' themselves to the likes of Ryanair. I am sure they stand by that statement today unless they have lost their 'values'


MAG is not an independant, thinking, conscious "being" - it is a company and so what it does and how it acts will reflect the values and attitudes of the people running the organisation. A number of senior people have changed at MAG since the fall out with Ryanair, not least the arrival onto the MAG board of Ken O'Toole who of course, was number 3 to O'Leary at Ryanair.

Guess what his attitude is towards dealing with Ryanair.....

[TSR2]

Quite true, and the solution was to offer Ryanair off-peak slots at an acceptable rate.

[Buster the Bear]

According to sources in Eastern Europe, a certain airline operating will be carrying close to half Luton's current annual pax throughput soon!

[LTNman]

Well you can see why it is so had to get a job

[FRatSTN]

Nearly half of Luton's daily passengers before 8:30 in the morning then!

[Narrow Runway]

If it is pink and purple, then I think a LTN base is coming soon.

But, who knows?

[LGS6753]

178 flights per week (peak) x 180 pax capacity x 2 (in/out) = 3,332,160 nominal capacity.
Assuming a load factor of 85%, annual throughput no more than 2.8m

Impressive, but only just over 25% of total passenger numbers at LTN in 2013.

[Buster the Bear]

Going to happen, just look at an attraction.

Four Night Bear Tracking Adventure in Romania from Buyagift (http://www.buyagift.co.uk/Short-Breaks/Four-Night-Bear-Tracking-Adventure-in-Romania-BR-10913178.aspx?cm_mmc=Affiliates-_-108803-_-1-_-1&utm_source=Affiliate&utm_medium=108803&utm_campaign=1&cm_mmc=Affiliates-_-47868-_-1-_-1&utm_source=Affiliate&utm_medium=47868&utm_campaign=1)

[LTNman]

Key facts

London Luton Airport is the UK's 5th largest passenger airport 9.5 million passengers used the airport in 2011.
96% of passengers fly on scheduled services, 4% on charter services.
89% of passengers were on international flights and 11% of passengers were on domestic flights


Top 10 Destinations 2011
Position Destination (2012 in brackets)
1 Budapest (7)
2 Warsaw (3)
3 Dublin (1)
4 Geneva (8)
5 Glasgow (2)
6 Malaga (5)
7 Edinburgh (4)
8 Amsterdam (>10)
9 Paris (6)
10 Bucharest (>10)


The scheduled carriers that operate at London Luton Airport are as follows:

easyJet
Wizz Air
Ryanair
Monarch Scheduled
Thomson
El Al
Blue Air
Flybe
Aer Lingus Regional

The charter carriers that operate at London Luton Airport are as follows:

Thomson
First Choice
Monarch
Sun D'Or


LTN Passengers by Type

Low Cost = 86%

Full Service = 10%

Charter = 4%

Abertis airports holds stakes in 29 airports in 8 countries with a global traffic in excess of 90 million passengers a year. After the acquisition of dca, abertis airports becomes one of the largest operators in the world with a notable presence in Europe and America.


The abertis group made a net profit of €720Mn in 2011. Total revenues amounted to €3,915Mn, while net cash-flow was generated to €1,533Mn. EBITDA totalled €2,454Mn. abertis invested a total of €676Mn.

[LTNman]

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEIQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.london-luton.co.uk%2Fen%2Fdownload%2F198%2FLondon%2520Luton%2520Air port%2520Annual%2520Report%25202011.pdf&ei=Q9QAUcrPFqPG0QXFh4D4DA&usg=AFQjCNEDnYMrITFr_w4m9OQDR0szLF2X_A&bvm=bv.41248874,d.d2k

[gilesdavies]

The thing with Luton and Stansted is, while they can definitely get bums on seats, to fly through the airport and operate routes profitably, BUT there are however other airports which can fly the routes for even more profit and generate more revenue.

This is why Gatwick is the darling airport for easyJet, in the London area (and their whole network), it might be more congested, slot restricted and take longer to turn around an aircraft (due to air bridges). But the airline can simply get more revenue out of their passengers flying from there.

This is why Air Asia X swapped from STN to LGW, as they could sell tickets at a higher price, despite filling seats without a prroblem out of Stansted. But they dropped the route eventually after our wonderful chancellor increased the level on APD on long haul flights to £80, making the route unviable.

This is the same for Monarch out of Birmingham, and hence why they have removed aircraft from other UK airports and turned BHX into their largest base, with 8-10 aircraft flying from there this summer. They are simply cashing in on the lack of Low Cost Carriers there, with the demise of BMI Baby, Ryanair reducing their presence due to aa spat with the airport and no easyJet presence.

You then have the issue, of full service airlines operating out LGW happily for years and then realise there is more money to be made flying out of LHR and switching their route to there. This is the case with the airlines from the USA, and the latest is US Airways changing their Charlotte service to Heathrow.

I think it is going to be a case the airport is going to have to try and keep their existing airlines happy and try to entice them to grow, finding new carriers is a hard and difficult job. Especially with the likes of LGW, STN, SEN and to a lessor extent BHX also all chasing the same business.

[gilesdavies]

Going to happen, just look at an attraction.

Four Night Bear Tracking Adventure in Romania from Buyagift

Bear is delicacy in Romania, I hear it is very tasty! :ok:

[Lee Baker Street]

‘Scotland’s largest airport will today (Thursday) announce the launch of a new £15m route development fund, to drive competition and bring new airlines and new routes to Edinburgh.’
As per the above headline released yesterday, I hope Luton maintains it’s position in the UK’s top busiest five airports.

[Falcon666]

LBS,
Luton may even drop to 7th if things don't pick up route wise.
BHX has had all the news over Xmas / New Year and more route announcements recently.
To be honest it has amazed me how long LTN has kept the 5th position but competition is now hotting up!

[LTNman]

Well it’s not the end of the world whether Luton is 5th 6th or 7th. I wouldn’t want to see Luton at maximum capacity with all the pending building work that is due to take place so Luton needs some spare capacity to allow sections of the airport and terminal to closed off.

[boeing_eng]

This is why Air Asia X swapped from STN to LGW, as they could sell tickets at a higher price, despite filling seats without a prroblem out of Stansted. But they dropped the route eventually after our wonderful chancellor increased the level on APD on long haul flights to £80, making the route unviable.


APD didn't kill off Air Asia from the UK. They also dropped the Paris-Orly route at the same time. The simple fact was they ended up charging almost as much as the legacy carriers to that part of the world and the passengers voted!

[Dannyboy39]

What was happening at 0745 this morning? Witnessed two consecutive go arounds - I believe 2 Wizz A320s. I think I've only ever seen one ever let alone two in a row!

Both aircraft maintained runway heading at around 2000ft flying over the airfield before banking to the left away from the town as per normal departure procedure.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

The reason for the go-arounds was due to a large number of birds on the grass adjacent to the runway. These were reported by the preceeding landing aircraft but only after another aircraft had entered the runway to depart.

The birds needed to be dispersed so hence the go-arounds.

OLY1B

[Dannyboy39]

Watching Look East this morning, I saw HALE being represented again - this time moaning about an additional 50% of night flights under the current expansion proposals - that works out at around 1 extra flight per hour and 10 flights per night (if you call 2300-0600 night). Its nothing. And why would airlines want to increase their night flying outside of the peak summer? Its not exactly going to fill aircraft is it?

In the interests of democracy, surely people who want the expansion to go ahead, be given equal airtime?

[Buster the Bear]

10 flights per night! If I take you back 10-15 years there were that number frequently per hour!

[dc9-32]

10 flights per night! If I take you back 10-15 years there were that number frequently per hour!

You mean Air Bridge Vanguards and Aer Turas CL44 amongst others :E

[Lee Baker Street]

Do not forget that the HALE brigade are equal to 0.01 % of its towns and villagers population they pretend to represent! They talk in dribble and anyone with a brain (99.99%) that lives in the towns and villages will see right through them. What makes me laugh is that their members have quoted that Airbus A380'S will be operating long haul from Luton! In addition we will have flights every 90 seconds (I wish). They also state that during the early morning hours at about 01.00 and using sophisticated equipment they measure the sound of aircraft flying over their villages- yet I and thousands more live in South Luton and don't even realise flights are departing over us because we are either doing our regular things or are asleep! However I am aware of one South Luton resident who wants the council to compensate her for her rattling windows- but does not want PVC ones because they are 'dreadful in appearance and common'! :eek: I have to say though- that both LADICAN and HALE members are a funny bunch and what it all boils down to- is will they loose their value in property? Luton's most expensive home is valued at 1.5million pounds far more than theres and yet is positioned 300 feet below the aircraft and about 150 feet off the centreline! It is in fact the former water tower in West Hill Road memorial park.

[davidjohnson6]

Lee - HALE have every right to argue against airport expansion. If you disagree with them, slagging them off will only make you sound like an oddball and encourage people to support HALE. If you want airport expansion to go ahead and gain public support and influence, it has to be through reasoned and respectful debate...

[Lee Baker Street]

Dear Davidjohnson6, I do not consider myself to have slagged off HALE or LADICAN or in fact anyone. I merely pointed out what misinformation they spread and what antics they get up to and what they seek and what they would like in compensation-which incidentally ranges from permanent discounted flights, beech wood double glazing, extra seating on trains from Luton etc. If you consider people will consider me an oddball for hi-lighting facts (I have copies of all documents in the public domain which incidentally includes town hall complaints) then that is fine with me!

[Dannyboy39]

I've no problem with people voicing their opinions, but it must be done in a constructive way, devoid of personal self interest and mistruth.

If people didn't protest and pose questions, we wouldn't be in the democracy we're in today.

To be honest, I have some indirect potential bias - my chances of continued and progressive employment could depend on a growing airport.

[Buster the Bear]

I say bring back the Ryanair 1-11s and the 26 WOB SID! Now that would give folk something to complain about and Mr 1 Bravo nothing to spot! The modern jet makes considerably less noise than most folk fear, having stayed at the Luton Hoo recently, I slept like a bear!

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

What - Buster staying at Luton Hoo ... I assume that was in the grounds or did you win the Bear Lottery and actually stump up for a bed!

1-11's can come back anytime but not the OLY 1 Lima(?) departure.


OLY1B

[Buster the Bear]

I had to pay, Mr Bust refused and wouldn't pay for me to travel by helicopter either, so I drove! If you book well in advance it is not as expensive as you might expect and breakfast is rather yummy!

[ImPlaneCrazy]

You two show just how exciting things really are on this thread.....

:rolleyes:

[LTNman]

Wizz is the ideal airline for Luton. As the aircraft that park overnight depart they are replaced with Wizz arrivals thus prolonging the airports busy period. Also no extra infrastructure is needed for Wizz as they just fill in the gaps.

[Buster the Bear]

So with this being the 75th anniversary of the opening of Luton airport, shall we see a giant bronze Buster on the roundabout opposite the hotel, together with the road being re-named Buster Way?

[gilesdavies]

Anyone know if Adria will be making a return to Luton this summer, operating to Ljubljana?

Or has the chances of this been obliterated, with Wizz now flying the route?

There website doesn't make any mention of this, but I don't think it was announced last year until about February or March.

Also for the Luton Fanboys on here, there is a nice article in Airways Magazine about Luton.

Airways Magazine - A Global Review of Commercial Flight (http://www.airwaysmag.com/channels.html?article_id=265&channel_id=16)

[compton3bravo]

Good heavens - they dug that picture out of the archives - must be over 10 years old.

[LTNman]

No pier between the eastern and northern apron.
Single story link building between the old and new terminal
Old drop off area in use

[LGS6753]

...in fact, no northern apron.

[LGS6753]

In a corporate presentation outlining their plans for basing more aircraft in Ukraine, Wizz show two additional routes from LTN to Ukraine (Donestsk in the east and Lviv in the west - the latter previously served from LTN IIRC).

[Buster the Bear]

Interesting routes from Ukraine planned. Just need to tie in Moscow and Dubai now. Need a longer range A320 for the latter though.

[davidjohnson6]

Let us suppose for a moment a Luton-Lviv route is reopened. Why should it work now when the route was dropped by Wizz a few years ago.

[pabely]

LTNman, Northern exit/entry at platform 1 at Parkway almost complete, helpoint live so you should be able to get to new hotel directly within weeks....

[LGS6753]

Would Luton-Lviv work now? There has been turmoil in the Ukraine market in recent weeks, so Wizz are trying to capitalise on the failures of others.

[LTNman]

Let us suppose for a moment a Luton-Lviv route is reopened. Why should it work now when the route was dropped by Wizz a few years ago.

I am sure many more Ukrainians now live in the UK than a few years ago thus creating demand as the UK is an open house for Eastern Europeans seeking a better life whether they are in the EU or not.

LTNman, Northern exit/entry at platform 1 at Parkway almost complete, helpoint live so you should be able to get to new hotel directly within weeks....


There have been complaints on trip adviser about access to the hotel from the station. Why the new access has not opened already is a mystery as the route has looked complete for months.

[gilesdavies]

Im no expert on the Ukrainian economy, but the route by all means could work. Especially now Wizzair are more established in the Ukrainian market.

As before, they launched the routes to LTN when they first moved into the Ukrainian market and were not so well known.

Also Wizzair flew to Ljubljana a few years back from Luton and Brussels, and was dropped completely due to lack of demand. Here we are now, and the route has restarted and successfully operating 3-4 times a week.

I doubt Wizzair will get any time soon, rights to fly between the UK and Moscow...

The UK/Russian agreement, only allows two airlines from each country fly between them. In this case that is Transaero, Aeroflot, British Airways and easyJet have just taken over the right BMI use to have.

You also have the issue that the UK and Russia require nationals from both countries to have visas to enter their borders. I recently looked into a trip on the new easyJet service from LGW, and a single trip tourist visa is around £100!

Would however love to see the route materialise.

Talking of Wizzair, I noticed the airline recently switched all their operations from Glasgow Prestwick to Glasgow International. This has to act a warning to Luton, they need to keep the airline happy and be sure they are offering them value for money.

All it would take is a killer deal from the likes of the new owners of Stansted or even maybe Southend, and I doubt Wizzair wouldn't hesitate in moving. The airline has demonstrated how cost efficient they are in the past, by moving airports in other countries for a better deal or if not getting the deal they want to make cutbacks to schedules.

People might laugh at me mentioning Southend, but they are eager for business, and Wizzair is one of those airlines that thinks about the price first, while happy to try new facilities and consider the inconvenience to the passenger last. Take the move to Warsaw Modlin airport as an example!

[jdcg]

Wasn't there a problem for Wizz in Ukraine initially with the authorities being very uncooperative? Didn't that have something to do with the LWO flights being dropped?
Personally I would love the flights to be reinstated. It's a really beautiful city with very friendly people. I loved it!

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Adria are not intending to return to Luton this summer. Given their financial difficulties it was always unlikely that they would be back; Wizz moving on to the route was the final nail in the coffin.

OLY1B

[LTNman]

People might laugh at me mentioning Southend, but they are eager for business, and Wizzair is one of those airlines that thinks about the price first, while happy to try new facilities and consider the inconvenience to the passenger last. Take the move to Warsaw Modlin airport as an example!

Doubt that Southend's short narrow runway would suit the A320. Even if it was suitable the airport could not handle the sheer number of Wizz early morning arrivals that pile into Luton in only around 30 minutes. Also there is the issue of aircraft needing to backtrack which would also reduce the flow rate and Southend's weedy CAT 1 ILS which would play havoc with Wizz schedules on foggy days.

[LTNman]

I thought this was all sorted.

Luton Airport on the lookout for terminal extension architect | News | Architects Journal (http://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/competitions/luton-airport-on-the-lookout-for-terminal-extension-architect/8642788.article)

[pabely]

Wizzair to Southend, NO, STN or LGW would like to get them!

[FRatSTN]

I do think that MAG will want them at Stansted, but I think the sheer volume of traffic Wizz have now built up in Luton is going to make them very reluctant to consider moving. Surely there would have to be a heck of a good deal in order to get Wizz out of Luton.

Also, Stansted is fairly full up until around 8 or 9 am, so the early morning period when about half the days flights are would have difficulty and Gatwick is full at virtually any time and Southend is not really viable for reasons LTNman says.

[Expressflight]

I agree with pabely and FRatSTN that SEN would be totally unsuitable for Wizzair and Wizzair would be equally unsuitable to SEN's plans.

STN though is a very different matter and I'm sure the new owners might try to entice them there, but as has been said their LTN operation is now of such a scale that I very much doubt they would seriously consider moving out. Why move from an ideally located airport to one that is rather less so?

[Lee Baker Street]

In the worst case and unlikely scenario Wizzair transferred to Stansted then immediately that leaves it’s passenger catchment area reduced (most Polish/ eastern Europeans live in N.W London areas) and raises opportunities for other eastern European carriers to take on very successful and proven routes from Luton-in effect this would cause a reduction in passenger volume for Wizzair and initially a modest reduction in passenger levels at Luton. but would result in plenty of prime time slots available for the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet to fill. As an example in the worst case scenario that Easyjet pulled out then both Monarch and Thomson would retrieve their former routes! In effect, the routes from Luton are equally as successful and important as any airline operating them!

[pabely]

Remember Ryanair are strong to Eastern Europe from STN as well, would Wizz want to take a fight on their home turf?

[FRatSTN]

Wizzair do directly compete with Ryanair on many routes across Europe as it is. I'm not so sure that would worry them as such although as you say, Stansted is Ryanair's "home turf" so the scale in this case may make it a different matter.

With Wizz now in Barcelona (BCN), Rome (primarily FCO) and now moving from Glasgow PIK to GLA... as first pointed out, could Wizz be starting to look at larger airports and that meaning STN more of a consideration to them? Not long ago, there were even strong rumours of them moving from LPL to MAN.

I think the most we'd see though is a few routes moving over so that they would operate from 2 London airports. A bit like what they do in Rome. They operate in the point-to-point model so they shouldn't really be an issue with splitting services between 2 airports. I guess we will have to wait and see what unfolds in the future.

[Falcon666]

FR
Wizz did split the KTW route a few years ago trying the early afternoon dep from STN.
From all accounts it wasn't a success especially when Ryanair turned up on the route so got transferred back to LTN.
Doesn't mean they wouldn't consider changes again but would take a long ,hard look first!

[Buster the Bear]

Why would Wizz want to move? The BAA failed, so why what could MAG do more? With easy slowly exiting £1.5bn International, only a bungling management would allow Wizz to depart.

[pabely]

So according to the anti-expansion groups Luton will be generating 80 night flights, 10 an hour, send your CVs in for jobs!

[compton3bravo]

The provisional passengerr numbers for January 2013 are 573,716 a decline of 1.8 per cent. The rolling 12 month figure is 9,603,445 a 0.9 per cent rise. With both Birmingham and Edinburgh also both showing a decline Luton still seems to be comfortably holding on to fifth place in passenger numbers at the moment.

[Buster the Bear]

This was once part of Airports Group International that originally took on the Luton concession. I guess the contracts passed through TBI and onward to Abertis?

Bolivia nationalizes Spanish-owned airports operator - Yahoo! News UK (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/bolivia-nationalizes-spanish-owned-airports-operator-145431271--finance.html?)

[Lee Baker Street]

Pabely,
It personally frustrates me when these anti airport groups constantly mis-inform the public. In addition to the lie regarding night flights, one group states- irrelevant of which runway is in use, all flights fly over Flamstead! From what I observe when runway 08 is in use the majority of flights fly to the north of Luton passing Leighton Buzzard area before descending over Caddington. When they depart runway 08 not all flights turn around to head west over Flamstead! Now I have been reminded in this forum to hold a mature discussion on the subject- but it is so frustrating they get away with constant misinformation. If the noise was so awful and intolerable every home in Cutenhoe Road and Strathmore Avenue and my road would be un-liveable but the fact remains that once the properties go up for sale they are snapped up! Can someone in this forum tell me what constitutes 'night time' as those anti airport campaigners are quoting 11pm until 7pm but I disagree with those hours and can not find anything to substantiate their times.

[compton3bravo]

Quite agree with you Lee. I think the night time hours are 2300-0600 but I am sure someone who really knows these things will verify. Regarding noise complaints - Luton has had a concrete runway since 1960 so if my maths are correct that makes 53 years, so assume when someone buys a property of their own unless there are now over 70 they knew or should have known there was an airport close by with subsequent noise. Maybe the people who have moved to the area over the last 20 years to Flamstead etc could explain to me and everybody else why they bought a property knowing full well about aircraft noise. I am sure there are many other areas in Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire which they could relocate to.
Some years ago I worked with a guy whose father lived in Hitchin and complained about aircraft noise. When he went on a foreign holiday he always used Luton ´´because it was so convenient´´.
I rest my case.

[Expressflight]

The last couple of posts give me a feeling of 'deja vu'.

This is exactly what happened at SEN when Stobart's sought planning consent for the runway extension etc.. The 'antis' are not interested in the truth, but only is distorting the facts to suit their very biased agenda. I don't think you have too much to worry about though; it isn't really their ability to convince a few local people with their rants that counts. The experience at SEN was that the Council remained remarkably positive throughout and all the protesters' bluster counted for very little when the time came for the vote in Council.

I know some here are a little anti-SEN in their attitudes, but I think they may come to be grateful for SEN setting the precedent recently for substantial development at a LON airport.

[pabely]

All I can say is I own a property off Tennyson Road, quite close to the £1M properties and have no issue, I bought knowing full well about noise, sometimes the M1 is more of an issue. God, it's better than the Court Line and Monach/Dan Air days/nights.
Perhaps they should have bought in Berkshire!
I no longer buy Herts local papers.

[LTNman]

It is always worth adding online comment to the anti Luton Airport articles that appear in the various Hertfordshire newspapers. It takes seconds to join and it is great getting into debate with the village idiots who always have something to say.

It doesn't take much to wind them up so it has become almost a sport as I put them right on their distorted facts.

[pabely]

I just might do that, sounds like fun showing some facts rather than the fiction they normally publish :E

[LTNman]

Luton Airport petition gathers pace - News - The Comet (http://www.thecomet.net/news/luton_airport_petition_gathers_pace_1_1854426)

Scroll down the page and view the comments. This thread is closed now but this is why people here should sign up.

Most Luton Airport stories have a comment section in the Hertfordshire press.

[Expressflight]

LTNman

That's a very good suggestion.

I have it on very good authority that similar support for SEN in the local press, especially when the opportunity was used to destroy the credibility of the 'antis'' arguments, had the effect of reassuring a number of Councillors who may have been wavering.

The only advice I would offer is to never allow yourself to be provoked into a slanging match; better to let your opponents show themselves up by hurling insults at you.

[questor]

According to a very recent House of Commons Library briefing note:


"One of the ways in which government (central and local), the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and airports themselves seek to mitigate the problem is by limiting the number of flights and the type of aircraft that fly into and out of airports during the early morning (usually from about 2300 to 0700). These are generally referred to as ‘night flights’."

CAA seem to agree: 23.00 - 07.00 local time when producing their day-time noise data, which cover the other 16 hours.

[runway08]

The Nimby's can protest all they want, They managed a huge crowd of about 8 people in the town center the other day.. wowy.

The council is desperate for money, The airport is what will keep Luton alive and I think most citizens of the town here realize this.

:ok: This will be one of those rare ocassions where "money talks" for the better.

[Lee Baker Street]

Hello Questor, I managed to find something a bit more definitive in that LHR, LGW and STN define their night quota’s being between 23.30 and 06.30 hours. As things currently stand flights start departing LTN typically after 06.00 and arrivals begin around 07.00 hours. Peak time appears to be 8am to 9am.

[LTNman]

New petition launched in Luton Airport campaign - News - The Comet (http://www.thecomet.net/news/new_petition_launched_in_luton_airport_campaign_1_1942188)

New story in the Comet today with the anti Luton Airport people putting in their comments at the bottom of the page. This is a good time to sign up and put a different point of view

[Suzeman]

Not long ago, there were even strong rumours of them moving from LPL to MAN.

Negotiating ploy to get a better deal at LPL when it came up for negotiation.

Wizz are staying at LPL so it probably worked!

[78Whiskey]

Does anyone know if the WAT route will be coming back any time soon?

Thanks!

[gilesdavies]

Does anyone know if the WAT route will be coming back any time soon?


I was hoping FlyBE might pick up this route, but its been some time now, since the route was announced it would be axed by Aer Arann and nothing has materialised...

I also think there is a lot of potential business the likes of FlyBE could make flying out of LTN, flying routes to cities where easyJet or Ryanair's own aircraft are simply too big with an A320 or 737-800.

Opening a North London hub with few Bombardier Dash 8's or even EB-175's based out of the airport would be brilliant. But in reality FlyBE, are loosing money and in the process of restructuring their business, if anything cutbacks are likely.

Over the last few years we have seen a gradual watering down of the airlines flights out if Luton, with frequencies turning from twice daily, to daily and now a few times a week and also becoming seasonal.

The other airline I am watching closely in a European airline called Minoan, they have recently announced they will be basing a Fokker F-50 at Oxford Airport are going to be flying to Edinburgh and Dublin.

They have stated they are interested in basing up to four aircraft in the UK, as they see a lot of potential for niche markets.

WORLD ROUTES: Minoan Air Outlines UK Expansion :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/164370/world-routes-minoan-air-outlines-uk-expansion-/)

http://www.routesonline.com/routes-tv/1127233148001/airline-videoaudio/1869749724001/

[Buster the Bear]

Adria, are they returning this coming summer?

[LTNman]

Found this on the council’s website. http://www.eplan.luton.gov.uk/plannet/documentstore%5CDC19511387-62-1_01_A.PDF It is a letter of objection to Signatures new hangar by Harrods as they claim it will reduce their ability to handle aircraft by 20%. The letter is dated July and Signature has got its permission but clearly Harrods are not happy.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

Buster - see post #414.

OLY1B

[Lee Baker Street]

gilesdavies, I agree with you that LTN has lost a few routes and has fewer flights operating on the established routes. Compared to a few years back, LTN handled far more domestic passengers and more passengers on the Irish network. I take the view that LTN has the potential for a new carrier to operate the Irish links lost and increase domestic services. I recall when LTN operated to Leeds, Liverpool, Shannon, Knock and not forgetting the other international destinations such as Palermo and Athens. Everyone one of these routes were successful and I am sure can be again.

[Buster the Bear]

Thanks 1 Bravo, I missed that.

[Dannyboy39]

gilesdavies, I agree with you that LTN has lost a few routes and has fewer flights operating on the established routes. Compared to a few years back, LTN handled far more domestic passengers and more passengers on the Irish network. I take the view that LTN has the potential for a new carrier to operate the Irish links lost and increase domestic services. I recall when LTN operated to Leeds, Liverpool, Shannon, Knock and not forgetting the other international destinations such as Palermo and Athens. Everyone one of these routes were successful and I am sure can be again.

Domestic air travel is going in the wrong direction. More people are going by train rather than plane, hence the culling of these routes.

Rightly, airlines should be focused on profit rather than the possible prestige/protection of some markets. Protecting unprofitable markets is the reason why US domestic air travel is such a mess - flying to places with no passengers as a defensive tactic.

As for Ireland, I dare say no small airline would take on Ryanair in their own backyard.

[Hangar6]

EIR are doing just that and LTN to Roi is in the plan for S14 :D

[LTNman]

At the expense of Southend? Funny you should mention this, a normally bad source of information who is wrong more times than he is right even though he works at the airport mentioned that Aer Lingus will be pulling out of Southend at the end of the summer season. I just dismissed his comment but maybe…..

[Expressflight]

LTNman

I wouldn't say that's out of the question.

The SEN-DUB becomes DUB-SEN wef 1 April 2013 in order to try to improve its performance. I'm sure the figures for the summer will be studied carefully to see what positive effect this change has.

I'm surprised that no one has taken up the WAT-LTN, although it really does have to operate in that direction to maximise its potential so perhaps that's where the difficulty lies. The total WAT-LON pax numbers for the past couple of years would certainly suggest the route is still viable.

[LTNman]

Expressflight

I am sure you are correct, as I said my information source is usually wrong.

The only route I can see Aer Lingus operating to Luton would be the Waterford service

[Falcon666]

Quick look shows a few changes to timetable for next winter.
GIB goes up to 4 wkly from 3 ( Wed added)
ALC goes down to 2 from 3 wkly ( Thurs gone)
ACE goes up to 3 wkly from 2 ( Thurs added)
FCO goes down to 2 from 3 wkly ( Mon gone)
SSH new 3wkly Thur/Sat/Sun
LCA gone completely from a wed flt?

LTNman
Why only Waterford,they could add Cork or Shannon

[Dannyboy39]

Monarch have shelved Larnaca from Luton?! I'd have thought that would've been one of their most popular routes. Heck from Luton they only had to fill 221 seats each way, each week. One A321 each way each week.

[Alex321]

Monarch's A321's are 214Y config for your records

[LTNman]

LTNman
Why only Waterford,they could add Cork or Shannon

With Ryanair operating into those airports from Stansted it would be a tough call.

[gilesdavies]

LCA gone completely from a wed flt?

I suppose for the new Sharm El Sheikh service to take effect, another route of a similar-ish sector length had to give, unless the airline had been willing to base a new aircraft at the airport.

During the winter months in Cyprus, tourism on the eastern side of the island (Ayia Napa and Protaras) more or less shuts down. It is Paphos and the Limassol area most where most tourists goes, and I suppose the easyJet service covers this.

Shame to see Larnaca go and hope it returns for Summer 2014.

I did initially think the Sharm El Sheikh route was becoming over saturated with easyJet operating it 6x a week, Thomson twice weekly and now Monarch 3x weekly. But after coming back from there a few weeks ago, I can see why they want a peice of the action too. Both on the outward and return flights easyJet, they were at least 95% full and Jan/Feb is their quiet season!

Im interested to know how Monarch's new service to Munich is going?... I appreciate during the winter months the service is probably popular with skiers, but unsure what market the airline is attracting during the summer months.

Munich is major city in Germany, but never really known it to be a major tourist attractions with Brits in its own right. It is a major commercial centre, but with only three or four flights a week, I doubt they will be attracting many business travellers.

Would be great if they could drop it and maybe fly twice weekly to both Dubrovnik and Venice.

[Powerjet1]

Taken from Business Sale Report.................


Luton, Cardiff and Belfast airports up for sale
Sun, 24 Feb 2013
By Chris St Cartmail


Luton Airport, Cardiff Airport and Belfast Airport have been put up for sale by Abertis, the Spanish infrastructure conglomerate.

The company has hired AZ Capital and Citigroup to explore options for its airports division that owns 29 sites around the globe. Only 40 per cent of the company's €720m profits now come from Spanish operations, as its homeland is beset with recession and high unemployment. This has fuelled the company's drive to expand overseas with recent acquisitions of highway concessions in Chile and Brazil.

Pressure to book profits has been added to Abertis this month in the wake of the decision by Bolivian President Evo Morales to nationalise the country's airports, a significant stake of which was owned by the Spanish firm.

There is little doubt that Abertis Infrastructuras is keen to focus on those activities producing highest returns, in countries that are still on a growth curve. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that there is more infrastructure potential in developing countries than, for example, in Europe. Combined traffic numbers through Luton, Belfast and Cardiff airports rose less than 1 per cent in 2012 over the previous year – hardly a high growth market at present.

Nevertheless, airport assets that have been sold of late have attracted serious interest at serious prices, with Stansted and Edinburgh as prime examples. Chicago’s Midway airport is also back on the market with several suitors pitching bids.

[LTNman]

UK airports to be sold as a block or individually? Didn’t the Welsh assembly want to take over Cardiff?

Abertis don’t own Luton they lease it so can they sell the lease without council approval?

What about the redevelopment of Luton? At the very least this will delay things by a year or two and who is to say that a new company will go ahead with the Abertis plan.

[FRatSTN]

LTNman

Abertis may sell UK airports as it tries to ease (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/24/abertis-sell-uk-airports-debt)

This article implies that they will be sold individually as the Welsh government is expected to make an offer for Cardiff in the next few weeks and says Belfast and contract to run Luton may also be sold.

Will be interesting to see what happens at Luton and Belfast.

[LGS6753]

If Abertis get anything like the ludicrous sum MAG paid for STN they will be laughing all the way to the banco.

[LTNman]

If taken over no company is just going to go ahead and spend £100 million on another company’s expansion plans as they will have their own ideas.

The council will not be happy and might want to scrap the Abertis contract and find their own operating company as Abertis will be looking for the highest price while the Council will be looking for the highest investment so to expand the airport.

Signature might be able to hang on to stands 16 and 17 under a new operating company.

There are a lot of ramifications to all of this and for the short term will create much uncertainty.

Abertis was always reactive at Luton only spending money when the infrastructure was under strain instead of being proactive and spending money up front to encourage further business.

This is what upset the council in the end and forced Abertis to promise to spend money which is now looking unlikely.

This lack of airport investment is also what upset the Welsh Assembly and caused the nationalisation of Bolivian airports operated by Abertis.

[gilesdavies]

It would probably take well over a year for the airport to be sold and for contracts to be exchanged...

Hopefully the expansion plans will be well underway, by then?!

Maybe BAA could go full circle and purchase the lease for LTN, with all that money they now have in the bank with the sales of STN and LGW. That way they would get their hands back on a second London Airport, but this time by organic growth.

Luton could attract a very hefty price tag to continue the contract with LBC, purely because of the shear potential from the airport. Having plenty of spare capacity which is a rarity for the London Airports and a council owner that is eager for growth... The airport could also offer to renew it or extend the contract to the owner.

Also any new owner is going to be keen to maximise their investment, so hopefully expansion would be at the top of their priorities!

It wouldn't surprise me if the Northern Ireland Assembly did something similar to Belfast International as the Welsh have done and wanted to purchase the airport. They are very keen to grow Long Haul traffic from the province, and have proposed to scrap the Air Passenger Duty.

[SecondDog]

It wouldn't surprise me if the Northern Ireland Assembly did something similar to Belfast International as the Welsh have done and wanted to purchase the airport. They are very keen to grow Long Haul traffic from the province, and have proposed to scrap the Air Passenger Duty.

Interesting idea but not likely unless they were to do what Northern Ireland's aviation industry has been calling for for a long time and create an aviation development strategy. Then there would be all the crying from BHD so I'm not sure it is doable....

[Buster the Bear]

Will LBC have the balls to sell the airport, might fill their financial black hole?

[LTNman]

Can't see that happening. The way things are the council gets a tidy sum each year. If they sold it they are selling a council assest and you can only spend the money once and one day all the money will be gone.

[boeing_eng]

I did initially think the Sharm El Sheikh route was becoming over saturated with easyJet operating it 6x a week, Thomson twice weekly and now Monarch 3x weekly. But after coming back from there a few weeks ago, I can see why they want a peice of the action too. Both on the outward and return flights easyJet, they were at least 95% full and Jan/Feb is their quiet season!


Nov-April is peak season for Sharm...Its a very popular Winter resort due to the reliable weather. Although its also a year round place the Summer temps of over 40c mean it becomes less popular then!

[LTNman]

Airport privatisation: The &lsquo;R&rsquo; word (renationalisation) hangs over the world&rsquo;s privatised airports | CAPA - Centre for Aviation (http://centreforaviation.com/analysis/airport-privatisation-the-r-word-renationalisation-hangs-over-the-worlds-privatised-airports-98578)

Major section on Luton in the second half of this link

[TartinTon]

The way things are the council gets a tidy sum each year.

Absolutely right LTNMAN and the reason that Abertis will find it difficult to sell. The council currently pockets £50-55m per year for doing absolutely jack. Why would an operator want to see that sort of a leech stuck onto the side of any investment they might want to make? You can understand the reticence of Abertis to invest previously when the license term was so short and the chance of recouping any significant investment was hampered by the LBC leeches. The best thing for the airport will be if LBC sells the airport in it's entirety alongside the Abertis concession. Only then will LTN have a chance to reach its full potential.

[LTNman]

Actually the sum paid to the council for the year ending 2011 was £24,935,178. The previous year it was £21,848,491. The operating profit after fees was £23.8 million on a turnover of £112.1million which is quite good.

You have to remember that if the airport was sold for say £750 million, which is less than a third of what Stansted was sold for, with an interest rate of say 3%, this would cost £22 million in interest payments.

I agree the lease term is too short but it has never stopped companies wanting to run the airport as there is still money to be made.

Abertis owns Cardiff and Belfast but I didn't see much investment there. It was only because the airport was council owned that forced Abertis to plan for expansion. If they had owned Luton they would have done nothing.

[Lee Baker Street]

LADICAN is now calling for a delay in the airport expansion programme due to a potential sale! In one respect this might be a blessing as LBC might be able to push their original ideas (which I preferred) for full length taxiways and new aircraft stands with any potential new leaseholder? Just maybe a new operator might consider a modest 900 feet runway extension within the current perimeter fence and possibly want to increase passenger levels to a modest 25 million? Or possibly Abertis might decide to sell it’s other airports and invest even more money at Luton? Only time will tell.

[compton3bravo]

So then Tartin, you would like to see the airport sold off to a company - probably not from the UK - and any profits, including I am sure, nice fat cheques for their executives and managers - to depart from the UK at the expense of the Luton ratepayers who have one of the lowest Council taxes in the UK thanks to the levy on passengers using the airport. The airport is a very valuable asset and I would suggest most people living in Luton would like to see the airport expanded creating more jobs and it is only the nimbys who mostly live in Hertfordshire who do not see any financial gain which are against.

[Buster the Bear]

BLIMEY! The concession fee has increased, £50-55m per annum. Was once £1.40 something per tinminal passenger.

[Barling Magna]

Tartin Ton
The council currently pockets £50-55m per year for doing absolutely jack. Why would an operator want to see that sort of a leech stuck onto the side of any investment they might want to make? You can understand the reticence of Abertis to invest previously when the license term was so short and the chance of recouping any significant investment was hampered by the LBC leeches. The best thing for the airport will be if LBC sells the airport in it's entirety alongside the Abertis concession. Only then will LTN have a chance to reach its full potential.

What a strange way of looking at things. Surely the fact that Luton BC receives £millions from the airport each year is to be praised? It helps to keep the council tax down and pays for the services which councils provide. We live in a mixed economy, not some kind of devil-take-the-hindmost economy where only the sharks survive.

[runway08]

Albertis going away will be a good thing. To slow and lack any ambition.

As has been mentioned above countless times, the money the council makes each year from the airport is the prime reason the nimbys will lose out on their anti expansion agenda in the long run. Thats why I never understad why people worry about it so much. Luton borough council needs the airport to grow BIG TIME. The debt keeps rising..

[LTNman]

The income from the airport allegedly paid for the towns new swimming pool and gym which was the location of that awful splash TV show.

[pabely]

I hope they sold it all over the world like X-factor and banked £1Ms :E

[boeing_eng]

LBC are certainly not using airport income to keep Council Tax down!.....Last year it instead used nearly £400,000 to cover the loss on a local festival!!:ugh::mad:

[pabely]

Not really true.......luton town is a very diverse society...that was nothing to do with the airport.

[boeing_eng]

The implication was that LBC has used airport income to balance the books for a loss making local festival (not that the airport was involved in the festival!!)

Love Luton Festival loss covered by airport | Anglia - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/update/2012-09-12/love-luton-festival-loss-covered-by-airport/)

[runway08]

They are a useless lot, No matter who gets elected they seem to like to waste money and destroy whatevers been struggling along. Allowing the building of a New stadium for the footy team wouldnt go a miss...

The airport is the only thing keeping this town alive.

[Lee Baker Street]

Fortunately LBC have pointed out that the planning application is still going ahead and under the terms of the lease and recent agreement, any potential new leaseholder will be obliged to honour that agreement. That’s at least a good thing, unless of course you live many miles away from the airport and partake in anti airport demonstrations.

[Dannyboy39]

Re: LTN bailing out the council for the Love Luton festival. Is that really a bad thing? Its like a marketing budget for the town; you probably expect to make a profit, but if you don't, its spent on good column inches for the town - something it wrongly doesn't seem to get that often.

FAO runway08 - maybe the council could fund a new stadium from the airport fees? I won't hold my breath, but here's hoping!! :ok:

[Buster the Bear]

Some interesting household names being allegedly linked with taking over the concession!

[ericlday]

Any with previous 'Airport' skills ?

[Buster the Bear]

Yes and 'ish

[Lee Baker Street]

Due to an imminent 6% increase in passenger charges at Stansted , FR have stated they will be removing 170 flights a week from the airport. I wonder if LTN could benefit in some way from this threat of action by them and possibly other airlines?

[gilesdavies]

Due to an imminent 6% increase in passenger charges at Stansted , FR have stated they will be removing 170 flights a week from the airport. I wonder if LTN could benefit in some way from this threat of action by them and possibly other airlines?

Interesting news...

Seems like Gatwick are also increasing their fees, be interesting to know how Luton compares in the grand scheme of London airports.

Latest news - easyJet plc (http://corporate.easyjet.com/media/latest-news/news-year-2013/14-02-2013-en.aspx?sc_lang=en)

[Buster the Bear]

More stands required!

[LTNman]

The South Stands will all become available soon.

[Buster the Bear]

Will MOL move some west, or is this more smoke and mirrors from RYR?

[Alloy]

I think there has been demand from the airlines for more stands for a long time as most stands are full most nights. Why do you think non of the LTN based airlines have really expanded out of Luton over the last few years while they have expanded elsewhere?

[nt639]

I would be more concerned with a current airline Wizzing East

[runway08]

Why would you worry about Wizz moving?

It's getting to be nonsense now to be honest with you. They have no desire to leave from what we can read about it, They have grown remarkably and are happy with Luton yet because STN has been sold all of a sudden they will want to risk everything and hop out of LTN in a heartbeat for no reason.

Do they want to risk going head2head at Ryanairs home base? Nope.
Do they want to pay higher fees? Nope.
Do they require a longer runway? Nope.
I would even argue most of their PAX are based in LTN and the surrounding area.

So why are they going to leave? I am intrigued..

[FRatSTN]

It depends on whether MAG can entice them in any way, but still think it's very unlikely to see Wizz moving to STN anytime soon, but I wouldn't rule it out completely.

[gilesdavies]

I don't think there is much to worry about Wizz Air moving, but the management at the airport do need to keep in mind that there is a possibility of another airport could come along and offer them a better deal with better facilities!

I also do not see the threat by Ryanair as smoke and mirrors, and they have withdrawn from many airports that didn't meet their demands and prices they wanted to pay! Dublin, Shannon, Madrid and Alicante all come to mind...

While the airport is pretty full, they have had the opportunities to attract traffic from STN from the likes of German Wings, Norwegian and Air Berlin, who do not base aircraft at any London Airport...

Also Thomson and Monarch have removed an aircraft or two from Luton in recent years, so there has been space to add a few Ryanair aircraft, but they haven't.

While airlines usually agree confidential terms and prices to fly from an airport... Would anyone know Luton's published fees and hows these compare to Stansted and Gatwick, and if they are really that attractive?

[Falcon666]

Giles,
The published figures are available on the Airport website under publications/ operations.The figure there shows an increase from 2012/2013 of £6.90(domestic) £10.56 (Int) to £7.09 and £10.84 respectively for 2013/2014.
As you say the airlines have confidential agreements with the Airport and are obviously not paying these figures.Interesting that the yearly increase does seem minuscule though.
By the way Norwegian moved to LGW a while back now from STN.
Agree that Ryanair haven't really shown any desire to expand from LTN in a while.They could do more with a/c from overseas bases if they wanted but I guess they will only put the pax numbers through LTN that have been agreed.
As I have said before on the threads they showed no desire to base a/c at other London airports when Easy was expanding deciding all eggs in one basket at STN was ok.Now all they have to do is agree with MAG at STN - toys out of pram comes to mind again.

[FRatSTN]

Ryanair just seems to have the odds and sods that Stansted doesn't have eg. Beziers, Nimes and Trapani or Malta and Marrakech for instance which have only been served from Stansted for a short while and still the frequencies remain higher in Luton. These, with a few other routes that have very little competition is near enough all FR serve from Luton. The only major exception really is the Dublin route.

Luton still has a lot of the, I suppose you could call it "traditional" FR routes like Reus, Girona and Murcia in Spain for example and not Alicante, Barcelona, Malaga, Palma. In fact, Luton is often the only one of FR's UK bases that doesn't have Ryanair flights to these popular bucket and spade routes.

With EZY, TOM and ZB on a lot of the more popular med routes like these and Wizz with Eastern Europe well covered, I don't really think Ryanair really has anything else to bring to Luton.

[gilesdavies]

I don't really think Ryanair really has anything else to bring to Luton.


I can think of lots...

The airport has no routes to Scandinavia, while all other London areas, serve this area. Which is one of the most affluent areas of Europe.

I can also think of numerous cities in Germany and Italy, that the airport could benefit from, especially the likes of Venice, Cologne and maybe Frankfurt.

Croatia could also benefit with some connections to the likes Pula and Dubrovnik. I never understood, why Wizz Air pulled off the latter route, I used it 3-4 times and it was full everytime.

While talking about routes, that reminded me, my mum was complaining like crazy that she couldn't book with Thomson to fly from Luton this summer to Alicante, as booked a holiday to Denia on the Costa Blanca. Ended up having to fly from Birmingham. (She is of the old school who still does packages.)

I am pretty surprised by this, and thought she was mistaken. Until I checked on their website and definitely not fly there. Would have thought this was one of the tour operators busiest destinations?!

[Buster the Bear]

Scandinavia......them roumers!

[gilesdavies]

Scandinavia......them roumers!

They're not rumours of any sort!

I was just stating routes that Ryanair COULD fly from Luton, if they were to increase ops at the airport, and not overlap on routes other airlines fly from the airport and where there are possibly holes in the destinations that the airport doesn't fly to.