Ground collision kiad

[caber]

Lufthansa and Colgan.

Dulles collision: Lufthansa Airbus, United Express commuter plane collide | WJLA.com (http://www.wjla.com/articles/2012/08/dulles-collision-lufthansa-airbus-united-express-commuter-plane-collide-78706.html)

[Basil]

Captains! I've said it before. Never allow yourself to be pressurised into continuing taxi when YOU are not entirely happy. Do not permit ATC or 'Follow me' or anyone else to lead you into trouble. You are the boss. Being in command is not a popularity contest. (That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be polite and agreeable when appropriate.)

Recollect being marshalled onto a stand in FRA and couldn't understand the marshaller. Called ATC and asked for a different marshaller. ATC asked why. I replied because this one is a dud. We ended up shutting down and leaving ground handling to tow the aircraft on to the stand.

[capt767]

Seems like clipping wing and rudder surfaces are becoming normal nowadays :sad:

[spanner the cat]

Gotta love the way those well informed and unconcerned-with-spicing-up-a-story newsies always say the planes collided "on the runway".

It wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting to place the mishap on a "taxiway" :\

:yuk:

[EIDWSkypilot]

It would appear we do not need excited media types to guild the lilly. The only reference posted above clearly states taxiway, who is claiming runway collision?

[viking767]

The TV reporter said the collision was on the runway.

[EIDWSkypilot]

Apologies Spanner, wrong side of pond to have other than previous posts to view.

[pattern_is_full]

Seems like clipping wing and rudder surfaces are becoming normal nowadays

Well, at least it is the "flavor of the month" for accidents. Which is probably better than the previous "flavor of the month" - which was stalling airliners and leaving holes in the ocean/ground (EHAM, AF447, Buffalo).

These do seem to always involve the newer generation of heavies (777, 330, 380). Is there something about their relatively low-slung cockpits (compared to the 5-story throneroom of a 747) that fool pilots into forgetting just how far the wings overhang the taxiways?

I note in the splash screen of that video that the A330 is perfectly on the centerline, yet the wings extend outside the taxiway borders by 10 meters or so.

Is that picture a surprise or revelation to pilots experienced in these cockpits - that something as far past where the grass begins as the length of a firetruck is still a threat to their wingtips (and vice versa)?

[wiggy]

These do seem to always involve the newer generation of heavies (777, 330, 380). Is there something about their relatively low-slung cockpits (compared to the 5-story throneroom of a 747)

FWIW you can see your own wingtips from the "throneroom" of a 744...you can't see your wingtips from the flight deck of a 777 ( unless you open the window:E). Not making excuses, but it certainly doesn't help with judgement and perhaps leads to increased reliance on the questionable "fact" that following taxiway centreline markings will always provide wingtip clearance.

[drive73]

Bingo on the above post. We must rely on others for clearance issues and when on a centerline you should be clear, but should is far from are clear. They will definatly have to address this issue.

[Cows getting bigger]

A long time ago and some different circumstances but many of the lessons are the same.

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/B88AC340-C041-410A-96C1-A7952E9005B4/0/maas88_02_chinook_hcmk1_za672_6may88.pdf

[SloppyJoe]

In the 330/340 you can see your wingtips from the cockpit.

[lenhamlad]

The simple solution is to take your wife or partner on every flight. Every time my wife is in the car with me, she tells me when I am too close to other vehicles:O

[EEngr]

Install wingtip cameras? Looking forward with small displays on the flight deck, enabled on the ground only.

[fleigle]

That is a brilliantly simple and obvious solution, now wait and see how long it would take to certify.

[Superpilot]

I don't think cameras are going to achieve much. It takes 1 second for something to come into view and crash into you. Push back is demanding enough as it is. Others need to do their job better.

[Hotel Tango]

Others need to do their job better.

Goodness, let's definitely not blame it on poor airmanship whatever. Let's find someone else to blame eh? :ok:

[aidey_f]

Ground manouver cameras are an option on a lot of the heavy metal these days, so the wiring exists to get a signal from there to the cockpit, and the video capability exists in the display systems.
Nothing's ever simple, but what about adding another 2 channels, looking down at the wingtips as well as along the body?

[Spunky Monkey]

How about parking sensors on the wing tips?

[TurboTomato]

If TCAS had a ground mode and knew the dimensions of the aircraft? Or is it not accurate enough? You have all the equipment on board to prevent collision in the air, why not use it on the ground as well?

[Telstar]

It's much cheaper to blame pilots instead of fitting a system like that.

[EEngr]

There you go. I was thinking this was another software based collision avoidance system that could false alarm and leave the flight crew in the dark. But the camera view solves that problem. Anything that gives the crew the raw data as an option and lets them be the final judge is better then a system leaving them dependent on ground based systems.

All too often, you depend on ground crew to watch your wings as you maneuver. But there's the Boeing employee who was run over by a towed plane that he was supposed to be watching demonstrating how ineffective this can be.

[MarkerInbound]

L-188s have a light in the wingtip pointed down. It doesn't have to be high tech.

[neilki]

Isn't this just a codeshare? There's a statement on Lufthansas' website that this is in fact, a pilot program to allow connecting passengers seamless transfer to their final connecting service.
//slow news day?

[HAWK21M]

Stay on the line folks and follow Instructions.........dont presume.......