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Ground collision kiad

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Old 10th Aug 2012, 21:06
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Ground collision kiad

Lufthansa and Colgan.

Dulles collision: Lufthansa Airbus, United Express commuter plane collide | WJLA.com
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Old 10th Aug 2012, 21:46
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Captains! I've said it before. Never allow yourself to be pressurised into continuing taxi when YOU are not entirely happy. Do not permit ATC or 'Follow me' or anyone else to lead you into trouble. You are the boss. Being in command is not a popularity contest. (That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be polite and agreeable when appropriate.)

Recollect being marshalled onto a stand in FRA and couldn't understand the marshaller. Called ATC and asked for a different marshaller. ATC asked why. I replied because this one is a dud. We ended up shutting down and leaving ground handling to tow the aircraft on to the stand.
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Old 11th Aug 2012, 12:43
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Seems like clipping wing and rudder surfaces are becoming normal nowadays
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Old 11th Aug 2012, 21:59
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Gotta love the way those well informed and unconcerned-with-spicing-up-a-story newsies always say the planes collided "on the runway".

It wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting to place the mishap on a "taxiway"

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Old 11th Aug 2012, 22:35
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Who said Runway??

It would appear we do not need excited media types to guild the lilly. The only reference posted above clearly states taxiway, who is claiming runway collision?
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Old 11th Aug 2012, 22:53
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The TV reporter said the collision was on the runway.
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Old 11th Aug 2012, 22:56
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Stand Corrected as I only had the thread to follow

Apologies Spanner, wrong side of pond to have other than previous posts to view.
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Old 12th Aug 2012, 00:27
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Seems like clipping wing and rudder surfaces are becoming normal nowadays
Well, at least it is the "flavor of the month" for accidents. Which is probably better than the previous "flavor of the month" - which was stalling airliners and leaving holes in the ocean/ground (EHAM, AF447, Buffalo).

These do seem to always involve the newer generation of heavies (777, 330, 380). Is there something about their relatively low-slung cockpits (compared to the 5-story throneroom of a 747) that fool pilots into forgetting just how far the wings overhang the taxiways?

I note in the splash screen of that video that the A330 is perfectly on the centerline, yet the wings extend outside the taxiway borders by 10 meters or so.

Is that picture a surprise or revelation to pilots experienced in these cockpits - that something as far past where the grass begins as the length of a firetruck is still a threat to their wingtips (and vice versa)?
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Old 12th Aug 2012, 06:08
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These do seem to always involve the newer generation of heavies (777, 330, 380). Is there something about their relatively low-slung cockpits (compared to the 5-story throneroom of a 747)
FWIW you can see your own wingtips from the "throneroom" of a 744...you can't see your wingtips from the flight deck of a 777 ( unless you open the window). Not making excuses, but it certainly doesn't help with judgement and perhaps leads to increased reliance on the questionable "fact" that following taxiway centreline markings will always provide wingtip clearance.

Last edited by wiggy; 12th Aug 2012 at 06:30.
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Old 12th Aug 2012, 06:44
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Bingo on the above post. We must rely on others for clearance issues and when on a centerline you should be clear, but should is far from are clear. They will definatly have to address this issue.
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Old 12th Aug 2012, 08:14
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A long time ago and some different circumstances but many of the lessons are the same.

http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/B88AC...672_6may88.pdf
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Old 12th Aug 2012, 08:54
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In the 330/340 you can see your wingtips from the cockpit.
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Old 12th Aug 2012, 08:58
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The simple solution is to take your wife or partner on every flight. Every time my wife is in the car with me, she tells me when I am too close to other vehicles
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Old 12th Aug 2012, 23:55
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Install wingtip cameras? Looking forward with small displays on the flight deck, enabled on the ground only.
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 00:49
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That is a brilliantly simple and obvious solution, now wait and see how long it would take to certify.
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 10:25
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I don't think cameras are going to achieve much. It takes 1 second for something to come into view and crash into you. Push back is demanding enough as it is. Others need to do their job better.
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 10:54
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Others need to do their job better.
Goodness, let's definitely not blame it on poor airmanship whatever. Let's find someone else to blame eh?
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 12:09
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Cameras?

Ground manouver cameras are an option on a lot of the heavy metal these days, so the wiring exists to get a signal from there to the cockpit, and the video capability exists in the display systems.
Nothing's ever simple, but what about adding another 2 channels, looking down at the wingtips as well as along the body?
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 12:30
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How about parking sensors on the wing tips?
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Old 13th Aug 2012, 13:24
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If TCAS had a ground mode and knew the dimensions of the aircraft? Or is it not accurate enough? You have all the equipment on board to prevent collision in the air, why not use it on the ground as well?
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