Is my licence valid?

[I have control]

I live in the USA and have got a CAA PPL from the UK, and an FAA licence that says it is based upon the restrictions attached to my UK licence. Yesterday my biennial expired on my UK licence. However I still have a year to run on the FAA biennial that I got last year. So the question is am I legal to fly here in the States on the FAA flight review, or do I need to find myself a British instructor to do my biennial.

Thanks for any help offered.

[GoneWest]

or...even worse....as your UK licence has already expired...do you need to find a UK examiner to do a full skill test??

I notice your profile says you are in Oshkosh - are you going to Sun n' Fun (Lakeland) next week?

[BEagle]

When I obtained my FAA Temporary Airman Certificate to fly under PPL privileges in the US (not that I've ever actually done so), the FAA chap picked up the US certificate in one hand and the UK licence in the other. "This", he said, waving the US certificate "is only valid if this UK licence is kept valid".

So I would say that if your FAA licence is a Temporary Airman Certificate, then no - as your UK SEP Class Rating has now become invalid, you will need to renew it by flying a SEP renewal proficiency check with a UK Flight Examiner before it can be revalidated. The flight is quite straightforward, you will need to fill out a LPC-SPA form as well but (assuming you pass the check) your licence will be valid as soon as the FE signs it - and you will not have to send any cheque to the CAA either!

However, if you have a full FAA PPL, you should be OK to fly on that as you've flown a BFR. I'm not sure why you bothered with a BFR if you held a Temporary Airman Certificate - the FAA told me that a BFR is NOT needed if your UK licence is kept valid.....

[FlyingForFun]

BEagle,

I was told the opposite - you do need a FAA BFR in order to use your FAA certificate based on a foreign license. I was told this by the FAA guy who did the paperwork for the certificate, as well as the instructors at the school I was hiring from.

FFF
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[Captain Airclues]

I have control

Your US license is invalid until you renew your UK licence.

If you look on the back of your certificate it says "Issued on basis and valid only when accompanied by UK license number ******. All limitations and restrictions on the Uk license apply."

Airclues

[Fuji Abound]

I think some of the earlier replies are incorrect although I have no authority to refer you to. My understanding is that your FAA license is valid all the time your UK license is valid. Valid does not mean your UK medical or proficiency check has to be valid, simply that your UK license is valid. Of course an old style license is for life but the new license requires renewal every two years I think. That seems to me to make sense because for your FAA license to be valid so must your FAA biennial and your medical. You cannot rely on your UK proficiency check not least because the aspects covered in each of these checks are different. For example power on stalls are not usually included in the UK proficiency check but are very much a part of your FAA biennial. Interestingly there are some examiners in the UK who will cover both the UK proficiency check and FAA biennial in the same hour, and then sign of both.

I suggest you take a look at the FARs for a definitive understanding.

[Stampe]

IHC if your Uk licence is not valid in every respect then your FAA ticket which is really only what we in "Euroland" would call a "validation" is not current.Your FAA ticket only stands if supported by a completely valid Uk licence as clearly stated on the FAA piece of cardboard.Of course in the UK FAA licence holders (or any ICAO recognised licence) are free to exercise private day VFR priveleges without any fomalities whatsoever subject to their licence being valid in their own system.So no real difference except the FAA have introduced an additional piece of bureaucracy,so much for the land of the free.I believe the Canadian PPL never expires and has no recency requirements so is a very useful licence to get as a "stand alone " ticket.Any of our Canadian friends like to comment on the accuracy of this!!?

[I have control]

Thanks for the information everyone.

It looks like I need to get my UK proficiency check done to stay legal.

I did the FAA check because having it was an insurance requirement of the flying club I am a member of.

GoneWest, yes I am flying down to Sun n' Fun later this week (I work for EAA). Guess I'll be stopping by one of the "British" flight schools somewhere along the way!

[Fuji Abound]

Stampe - this is an interesting topic - I was told emphatically by an FAA examiner that if you hold a valid UK license but have no current UK medical or proficiency check that was fine so long as your FAA biennial was current and your medical was current. Even if your UK proficiency check is current you must have a current FAA biennial.

[Stampe]

Fuji yes it certainly is I guess if you talk to ten FAA inspectors you,ll get as many different answers.I,ve raised this one many times in the States at schools and with the FAA.Whenever I,ve rented I,ve never had to have a bienniel only a quick check ride but as I don,t fly Stateside anymore haven,t rented over there for about 3 years.I think most people are confused about the so called licence the FAA give them issued on the basis of their "earnt" licence its really a validation yet you hear lots of people talk about having an "American licence" but without their Uk one being valid they have nothing at all.Its one area where our licencing authorities are way ahead in how we treat visiting ICAO licence holders for day VFR priveleges.I promise the confusion on this one will run a run.

[MAJIC9]

FAR 61.75 has some info on this..

However, it's FAR 61.19 that addresses your question. It says:

(c) Other pilot certificates. A pilot certificate (other than a student pilot certificate) issued under this part is issued without a specific expiration date. The holder of a pilot certificate issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license may exercise the privileges of that certificate only while that person's foreign pilot license is effective.


So whatever you heard (even from FAA inspectors) contrary to this is not correct.

[Noggin]

For a UK licence to be valid it must have the following:

Licence document within validity period (Life, 10 yrs or 5 yrs)
Valid aircraft rating (SEP 24 months) i.e. validity date not passed.
Valid Medical (6 mths - 5 years depending on age)

All signed by licensee

If you don't meet all of these criteria your UK licence is not valid and your FAA validation Certificate is not valid either.

[BEagle]

So to summarise then,

1. You have a FAA Temporary Airman Certificate, not an FAA PPL.

2. To fly under PPL privileges in the USA, you need to have this certificate plus a valid UK licence.

3. To have a valid UK licence:

a. Your licence must be within the correct validity period.

b. You must have a valid rating (e.g. SEP Class Rating).

c. You must have a current JAR medical certificate.

4. You do not need an FAA BFR to keep your temporary airman certificate valid.


.....is that correct, Noggin?

[Sensible]

You have got to have
1. A current UK class 2 Medical
2. A valid UK aircraft rating which must includes a current UK BFR

so if you haven't got all that then your FAA certificate is invalid to fly in the USA.

That's all taken off of documents from the beehive sent to me yesterday in response to a similar query.

[englishal]

Beagle,

Almost correct though there seems to be a bit of misunderstanding regarding the FAA Temporary Airmans certificate. When you fist get the licence, they issue a Temporary Aimans Certificate, valid for 4 months which you can use to fly on until your (not temporary) Airmans certificate is delivered to you through the post. Now it is no longer temporary but full FAA PPL but restricted to use with ICAO licence (noted on back).

Your ICAO PPL must be valid in all respects for the FAA AC to be valid, including ratings. This excludes medical though IF you hold an FAA medical.

Ratings added on to the FAA PPL are marked 'US Test Passed', and are now no longer subject to the restrictions of the ICAO PPL (ie. I have no multi on my JAA licence, but have FAA multi).

For the FAA PPL AC to be valid, then you must comply with the relevant FARs which require a BFR to have taken place within the preceeding two years. Normally a club checkout will do, as long as the instructor notes that it was a BFR in your logbook.

Cheers
EA

[Noggin]

Beagle

Not Quite! Temporary Certificate Airman is just a holding document. Under FAR 61.75 holders of a current ICAO pilot licences may be issued with a FAA Private Pilot Certificate that is stamped RESTRICTED USE.

On the reverse it carries LIMITATIONS stating: "Issued on the basis of and valid only when accompanied by (UK) pilot License No:xxxx All Limitations and Restrictions on the UK pilot licence apply.

It does not actually say the UK licence has to be valid! FAR 61.75 says the pilot certificate issued will be valid provided the foreign licence has not been revoked or suspended. It also says the foreign licence must be carried.

FAR-61.75 says to be valid, the holder must have either a medical certificate issued under FAR Part 67, or a current medical certificate issued by the country that issued the foreign licence.
A Part 67 medical might validate the FAA Certificate but would not meet the requirements of Art 26, so the UK licence would not be valid.

It appears we have all assumed the UK licence needs to be valid, but I can't find a reference to it. At the end of the day its up to the FAA.

Neither FAR 61.75 nor 61.56 say that the holder of a Restricted Certificate needs a BFR.

[BEagle]

Thanks chaps - I stand corrected. Have had a look at that tatty bit of cardboard issued by the FAA and it does indeed state as you say. Can't go crop-dusting though. Oh dear, what a pity, never mind!

Simple enough - valid UK PPL with SEP Rating plus that bit of Uncle Spam's cardboard means it's OK to fly under PPL privilieges in the US. Anything less - perhaps yes, perhaps no, perhaps maybe......

[Captain Airclues]

Noggin

FAR 61.75(a) states that a person holding a current foreign pilots license may be issued with a private pilots certificate. Does the word 'current' not imply that the foreign licence must be valid?

Airclues

[MAJIC9]

Noggin,

Take a look at 61.19 (or my previous post) :)

[Flyboy-F33]

He doesnt have a temporary airmans certificate, as those are only valid for 120 days from date of issue. What he has is a restricted FAA PPL. Although it says its has to supported by a current CAA licence, his FAA BFR superceeds the CAA currency as he is using it in the US.
The short answer is that you are legal until your FAA BFR expires

[Stampe]

Well thats all as clear as mud then ,my guess in reality is the only answer would have to come from an American court of law.I certainly wouldn,t want to go there in the so called "land of the free" .I believe when they throw the book at you over there its with considerable force.Its a good job aeroplanes only understand the laws of physics and money !!.

[Noggin]

Capt Airprox

Current means that it is current at the time of application for the Pilot Certificate. A licence can be current without being valid! i.e. the basic licence is within its validity period but the ratings in it may not be valid.

FAR 61.19 says the foreign licence must be "effective" not sure if that translates to current or valid in all respects. Even an expired licence can be effective for swatting flies!

[I have control]

As the question of FAA interpretation of their own FARs is now under question, I think I will head over to the FAA building at Sun n Fun next week and run it by those guys. I will report back what they say!

[FlyingForFun]

Unfortunately, the FAA are not always consistent in how they interpret their own rules.

A couple of months ago, I started a thread (or maybe hijacked one, I don't remember :D ) about flying solo at night on an FAA license based on my UK license. I didn't have a night qualification on my UK license, but had completed all the dual night flying required by the FARs for solo flight at night.

The answers about whether it was legal were split pretty much 50/50, so I decided to read up in the FARs for a definitive answer. According to the FARs, it is not legal. You can add a rating to a license based on a foreign license, but the definition of a rating is limited to an IR, type rating or class rating.

I told the instructors at the school where I was renting from, and they were surprised - they said they'd had plenty of British students who'd met the dual night flying requirements and then gone on to fly solo at night. But I pointed out the relevant FARs, and was met with "Hmmm, interesting" noises.

The cheif instructor, who is also an FAA examiner, had an examiners meeting coming up a few days after I mentioned this to him, so he took the opportunity to raise the issue with one of the FAA's head training guys. The official line from this guy was that it's not strictly legal, but everyone does it and no one really seems to mind. The FARs will probably be changed some day to allow it, but since everyone does it already, no one really seems to be bothered about changing the FARs.

After talking to the instructors, I decided to get an FAA student license, and use that for all my night solo flying just to ensure it was completely legal. But on some points, what the FARs say, what the FAA say, and what everyone else says may not be the same! :rolleyes: This sounds like one of these scenarios, and if it were me, I'd make sure that I had a FAA BFR and a UK CofE just to make sure I was completely legal...

FFF
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[englishal]

Yep, best to have a BFR. I was told by an FAA Examiner when I did my IR check ride that I was not legal as I had no BFR logged in my logbook. Stupid really as I had just flow about 50 hrs with an instructor for my IR...how much checking do I need! Needless to say the instructor just endorsed my logbook there and then.

This point about night flying...it seems the only real way to fly at night and carry passengers is to either get an FAA CPL (or take the PPL tests and exams...waste of time) or to get a JAA NR (Qualification) on the JAA licence...probably easiest.

Cheers
EA

[Keef]

I flew happily in the USA for many years on a US PPL issued on the basis of my CAA PPL, and made sure that every bit of the CAA PPL was valid as well.

Eventually, I succumbed and did the teeny bit of flying and the checkride to get an unrestricted FAA PPL. I also did the IR to go with it. I feel a lot happier having an unrestricted FAA PPL/IR, since nothing CAA or JAA gets to me any more.

For those who have reasonable numbers of hours, I'd recommend doing the FAA PPL checkride. If you have LOTS of hours and the time to do a long cross-country (SOLO) and some minor performance manoeuvres, do the FAA CPL. Neither is particularly difficult.