This is going to be fun ! [Archive]

Piltdown Man

22nd May 2012, 07:27

I can see it now. A miss-heard clearance, a read-back garbled by others transmitting on a heavily congested frequency, a fluffed frequency change and... Boom! Bit's of aircraft etc. are now strewn across tracts of London. It will have to be that or the Titanium curtain protecting "us" will be worthless. It takes approx. nine minutes from LHR and only three once airborne from LCY to get to that place I probably can't mention because of The London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games Act 2006. That means a decision will have to be made by somebody within seconds to either shoot or hope that it's just an innocent mistake. Have you ever heard of a politician (with the exception of the warmonger Blair) making any decision that quickly? So the decision will have to be made by the military.

I'm so glad I'll be paying for an event I can't (afford) go to, I can't mention because of a temporary Act designed to protect greedy sponsors, one which will potentially bugger our lives for a few months but one I'll be paying for... I'm so glad I live in a free country.

WorkingHard

22nd May 2012, 07:41

green granite

22nd May 2012, 08:04

What concerns me is the attitude that it wont matter if we kill hundreds of people on the ground when we shoot down a rogue 747 or 380 as long as their precious :mad: games are safe.

The SSK

22nd May 2012, 10:25

It is utter :mad: and will have no effect whatsoever on any determined act of terrorism.

Some might say that the terrorists have already scored their victory.

JOE-FBS

22nd May 2012, 11:47

If you think it's bad for you professionals, at least you are used to flight plans, clearances and required navigation performance. Spare a thought for we leisure flyers who aren't. Now, credit where it's due, the RAF, CAA and NATS have bent over backwards to calm some of the wilder restrictions which were originally propose by non-aviation people and to put in place a temporary infrastructure to help us fly in the restricted area. However, our freedom to fly will be severely curtailed and one imagines some businesses will be destroyed so that the politicians and multi-national corporations can have their sports day.

One other thing. We, being sensible people(!), are thinking about this in terms of what are credible lethal threats. Our lords and masters think rather more broadly and don't want their lives interrupted by contrary opinions either. "They" do occasionally let slip in public that "they" consider peaceful protest just as much a problem as lethal terrorism. Some senior police officer said so in so many words on TV around the time of the royal wedding and I have heard the same in an early statement about the Olympic airspace. Sadly, I cannot find references but in both cases the wording was clear, they are just as concerned about stopping peaceful protest as they are about lethal terrorism.

DavidWoodward

23rd May 2012, 08:29

The terrorists will just get the bus instead.

Wirbelsturm

23rd May 2012, 15:07

with pre-approved planes being told which routes to take well in advance.

Hmm, that'll be LAM, BPK, OCK and BIG for Heathrow then.

RAF running the air traffic control systems across London

OMG, to quote my daughter, we're all doomed! The Crabs have never had to deal with so much traffic from so many differnet countries with so many different radio practices/accents before, and I thought Brize Norton circuit pattern control was dodgy!

It's going to be a fun filled few months at Lagos north!

deSitter

23rd May 2012, 15:16

It is utter :mad: and will have no effect whatsoever on any determined act of terrorism. It is the politicians deciding they have to be seen to be doing something. For those of us who use an aircraft for business where we do not know from one day to the next where we may need to go to earn our crust then the cost is enormous and it is not just for the period of the olympics remember.

Of course it's :mad:. But years ago you guys put up Orwellian posters that said "Secure beneath the watchful eyes" (complete with creepy disembodied eyes) and then blanketed your island with closed circuit TV cameras, effectively making public privacy a thing of the past. Why are you going down this path? It's bad here in the US, but nothing like the UK.

dazdaz1

23rd May 2012, 15:20

The terrorists have won already, their sitting back laughing their c**ks off, they have instilled fear. Our Government is playing in to their hands, no attack, they just watch and enjoy the panic procedures HMG are implementing. The action of HMG over the Olympics gives them kudos.

I would consider (hypothetical attack) around the Eurovision song contest where security might not be up to Western standards.

brakedwell

23rd May 2012, 16:05

Don't worry, Humph's smile will scare them off :)

dazdaz1

23rd May 2012, 16:17

Brakedwell

How very very dare you to diss the Humph. I feel sorry for the security who have to do the internal for the Russian Grannies:ugh:

Wirbelsturm

23rd May 2012, 16:41

I feel sorry for the security who have to do the internal for the Russian Grannies:ugh:

I didn't realise Wayne Rooney was going!

etrang

24th May 2012, 05:08

The terrorists will just get the bus instead.

David Woodward, you should know better then to provide advice to terrorists on how to avoid security measures.

Moderators, please delete the above post. In fact delete the entire thread.

Slasher

24th May 2012, 05:24

The terrorists will just get the bus instead.

I can think of at least another 3 obvious methods they could
use - but if I list them all here old estrang will probably want
my post ripped from its mounts too.

Rabina

24th May 2012, 05:47

The ironic posts here only match your lack of enthusiasm for the Olympics because it affects airspace for a couple of weeks. If you can't share any positive thoughts for this worldwide sporting event, then it's probably time to accept the reality that it's going to go ahead whatever your personal viewpoints. If your negativity of the Games were cut and pasted onto an aviation event, say Farnborough and objectors of that event would moan about their personal grievances (noise, traffic, weapons industry etc.), you'd no doubt counter with how important aerospace is for Britain's future. Ditto the Olympics for athletes.

The point being that just because you couldn't climb the rope in gym class decades ago, don't castigate those that strive to excel in their sport. Everyone has a right to live their athletic dream in London this summer.

Spunky Monkey

24th May 2012, 06:40

Dear Rabina
I am afraid you don't know the British way...

We moan about everything...
We will sport the events, in our own quiet way...

Its when we are quiet you should be worried...
Because we are up to something...

pilotsince99

24th May 2012, 08:29

The increased security will see the RAF running the air traffic control systems across London in five weeks' time until the end of the Games, alongside civilian air traffic controllers.

Any NATS controllers that would like to comment?

Can't see the military running the air traffic control system. First they are not used to the vast amount of traffic. Second they use complete different procedures.

Do I have to report thee greens now on every approach during the Olympics?

Jim59

24th May 2012, 09:09

I can think of at least another 3 obvious methods they could
use - but if I list them all here old estrang will probably want
my post ripped from its mounts too.

You realise that British Waterways have put restrictions on canal barges wanting to use the river Lea... A high speed barge can reach nearly 4 kts.

WorkingHard

24th May 2012, 09:15

Dear Rabina,
Please look at the facts before quoting idiotic comments. If the sports "people" wish to have the Olympice here then fine but:
1) Why should the taxpayers have to foot the cost
2) The "games may last only 2 weeks but the extremely heavy hand on our freedoms to fly/work etc. lasts for 8 weeks
3) Let them have their dreams but why should that affect the rest of us.

As someone recently said "The Olympics is simply a way of getting public money into private hands" seems very plausible to me.

Maybe Geneva for the next games eh! I will support you.

WASPERNATOR

24th May 2012, 14:49

I love sport - hate the Olympix in London.

We can't afford it and we haven't even got the ground transport capacity.

As far as the military plans are concerned - hard to see this event going as planned without some daft PPL holder or balloonist getting shot down?

paully

24th May 2012, 15:15

Rabina

I presume you are beside yourself with delight at the 40mill (thats Sterling not Francs) they are spending on the opening ceremony, including fireworks of course...Whilst some are spending their full time preparing for a running and jumping fest, most others have to live and earn in the real world....

May I suggest you join it...thank you

JW411

24th May 2012, 16:30

Which idiot suggested that the United Kingdom should allow the Olympic farce to happen in my country in 2012?

Which idiot suggested that we could afford the huge costs related with allowing a small bunch of selfish individuals to come to my country to further their own ideals?

Which idiot suggested that we would all benefit from holding the Olympics?

Ah yes! It was Anthony Blurr and his merry men. I bet you he is one of the elite who will actually financially benefit from this charade.

I would suggest to you that 90% of the population of UK doesn't give a stuff whether Arrow Man runs a 100 metres in 10 seconds or 9 seconds. We shall all wake up when it is over and we are facing a huge tax bill in order to cover the losses. I, for one, will deeply resent this as will all the other people in UK who never voted for such a profligate waste.

I really can think of at least another one hundred better ways that I would like to see my tax spent.

Rabina

24th May 2012, 18:56

Guys - why so hostile? You get the government you deserved, they do what they feel the consensus want. If you don't like it, change the color on your voting forms next time around. You have been handed an opportunity to shine, yet all you present is negativity. With over 150 Heads of State descending into the area and all the airfield's ramps bulging with Gulfstrams, Challengers and heavier metal, the aviation industry can profit rather nicely for a few weeks, then you can go back to moaning about more routine issues again.

FERetd

24th May 2012, 20:44

Quote "You get the government you deserved, they do what they feel the consensus want."

How naive you are!

funfly

25th May 2012, 21:56

I presume you are beside yourself with delight at the 40mill (thats Sterling not Francs) they are spending on the opening ceremony, including fireworks of course...
I think you will find that this has now been increased to £80M
And Buck house has just requested a payment from the Poverty Fuel Fund as they have found that their heating costs have increased.:ugh:
Funny ol' world, current posts on here; bombs in breasts, female pilots tossing off passengers and most funny of all, the RAF running air traffic control.

mercurydancer

25th May 2012, 22:37

That is double plus ungood speak

Two's in

26th May 2012, 15:02

Rabina,

Guys - why so hostile? You get the government you deserved, they do what they feel the consensus want. If you don't like it, change the color on your voting forms next time around.

Pointing out how a democracy works always upsets those who thought a democracy meant just their ideas, and not the other team's ideas!

As for the olympics, spendthrift behavior by corrupt and unethical politicians, whose very ideas are simply the result of how they wanted to see themselves portrayed by Murdoch's media - what a shocker!

Wirbelsturm

26th May 2012, 16:01

You get the government you deserved, they do what they feel the consensus want

Started and screwed up by one, financially messed up by the other two.

Democracy at it's best!

FERetd

26th May 2012, 16:06

:=
Rabina, and Two's in

Rabin Quote:
Guys - why so hostile? You get the government you deserved, they do what they feel the consensus want. If you don't like it, change the color on your voting forms next time around.
Two's in, Quote " Pointing out how a democracy works always upsets those who thought a democracy meant just their ideas, and not the other team's ideas!"

You are obviously compltetely ignorant of how "democracy " works in the European Union. Let me give you an example from a U.K. perspective:-

There has never been a referendum in this country about entry to the European Union or its forerunner the European Common Market. There was a referendum, once, about remaining in the European Common Market.

European law is made by unelected civil servants and unelected European Commissioners. The European parliament merely votes to approve or disapprove any such law.

European constitutions are changed and citizens (U.K.) are denied a vote to accept or reject the new constitution despite promises from the two main political parties in this country.

The constitution is altered slightly, called a "Treaty" and then no approval from the electorate is deemed necessary.

Even where referenda are held in Europe, they are repeated until the European Commissioners get the answer they want. For example, twice in Ireland over entry to the Euro zone and twice in Ireland over acceptance the new Constitution/Treaty. Not even a best of three option!

PPRune is not really the forum for political debate, but you ought to know the facts before commenting on my "democracy".

Do you have room for an assylum seeker in the U.S? I can pay my own way!

funfly

26th May 2012, 16:13

Hang on folks..
In the UK we are NOT a democracy but a Monarchy.:ugh:
Cameron is the Queens first minister, he reports to her every week.:ugh:
Even Charlie has power of veto over parliamentary bills that effects Cornwall (and he is allowed his first £15M income tax free each year).:ugh:
Trouble is that it's nice to live here.:ugh:

I have always been the biggest advocate of us joining the Euro - that is until a few weeks ago, I hate to say it but the 'don't join the euro' people got it right- but for the wrong reasons:ugh:

Herod

26th May 2012, 17:18

How's about applying to be the 51st State? We'd have a lot more freedom to set our own agendas that we have as a Sovereign Nation within the EU.

The SSK

26th May 2012, 19:32

Sorry, I've lost the plot here - what the flupke has the London Olympic fiasco got to do with the EU? Or are some of you so warped these days that you would blame your ingrowing toenails on Brussels?

It's your mess, not ours.

Signed, The SSK, broadcasting from the city everybody loves to hate

FERetd

26th May 2012, 19:49

The SSK,
:ugh:

I note that you have not countered any of the arguments on this thread.

If you followed this plot and were capable of understanding it, you would not need to pose such a puerile question.

cwatters

26th May 2012, 19:54

Hang on folks..
In the UK we are NOT a democracy but a Monarchy.
Cameron is the Queens first minister, he reports to her every week.
Even Charlie has power of veto over parliamentary bills that effects Cornwall.

Last time they refuse to sign off on a bill was about 300 years ago :-)

Basil

26th May 2012, 20:18

JW411,

We can calm down over a nice (cheap) beer in October :)

We live an hour from central London but will be keeping well clear - unless someone gives me a ticket to the ladies volleyball :E

manrow

26th May 2012, 21:02

Couldn't be any worse than where we are now!

The SSK

26th May 2012, 21:35

FERetd: I note that you have not countered any of the arguments on this thread.

If you followed this plot and were capable of understanding it, you would not need to pose such a puerile question.

Thank you for the gratuitous insult, now let’s continue

There has never been a referendum in this country about entry to the European Union or its forerunner the European Common Market. There was a referendum, once, about remaining in the European Common Market.

What’s that got to do with airspace restrictions during the London Olympics?

European law is made by unelected civil servants and unelected European Commissioners. The European parliament merely votes to approve or disapprove any such law.

What’s that got to do with airspace restrictions during the London Olympics?

European constitutions are changed and citizens (U.K.) are denied a vote to accept or reject the new constitution despite promises from the two main political parties in this country.

[yawn] what’s that got to do … Oh, never mind

The constitution is altered slightly, called a "Treaty" and then no approval from the electorate is deemed necessary.

Are you still prattling on?

Even where referenda are held in Europe, they are repeated until the European Commissioners get the answer they want. For example, twice in Ireland over entry to the Euro zone and twice in Ireland over acceptance the new Constitution/Treaty. Not even a best of three option!

[sigh]

FERetd

27th May 2012, 09:36

SSK

Still no argument then!

My comment was not meant to be a gratuitous insult, however your continued lack of understanding of this thread - personal freedoms - ATC restrictions etc. does tend to invite these, I do apologise for obviously hurting your feelings.

I do note that you have not included your country of residence. Could that be significant?

Doctor Cruces

28th May 2012, 19:30

OMG, and I was complaining just yesterday thet the telly will be taken over by sport for a few weeks.

In a way, I'm glad it's not just non sports lovers who are peed off!!

:ok:

JOE-FBS

29th May 2012, 12:00

As I understand it from the briefing for our airfield (on the edge of the zone), the Royal Air Force is providing the controllers for a dedicated service Atlas Control which will provide LARS for the restricted zone. This is one of the many ways in which the RAF, NATS and CAA (and others, AOPA and Skydemon spring to mind) are putting great efforts into to mitigating the effects of the <choose expletive> olympics on aviation.

MidlandDeltic

30th May 2012, 11:49

FERetd wrote :

European constitutions are changed and citizens (U.K.) are denied a vote to accept or reject the new constitution despite promises from the two main political parties in this country.

The constitution is altered slightly, called a "Treaty" and then no approval from the electorate is deemed necessary.

With respect, that is down to the lack of a UK written constitution. Here in Ireland, we have such a document, and are voting tomorrow on the latest "treaty".

That said, if we give the wrong answer, we are normally asked again (Nice, Lisbon...)

rcsa

30th May 2012, 13:00

... establish it permanently in Greece. Competing countries pay Greek gov't to take part - pay rent for accommodation, entrance fees for athletes, etc etc.

Greeks get to fix their deficit problem, Olympics get to go home, nobody else has to deal with being occupied by the IOC dictatorship for two months.

Alternatively, sell the Dodecanese to the IOC. Same effects, with added benefit of a buffer state between Greece and Turkey.

Makes sense to me.