AirPhilExpress 320 off the RWY...Video from Inside

[JanetFlight]

Random pics in Philippines 035.AVI - YouTube

Smooth Landing...RWY Wet, and a different ending.
No victims!

And now..., RFFS»»»they seem a "lil bit" in doubt of what should be done.???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_g6QYrvIVCk

[Silvio Pettirossi]

Good, that "greaser" was almost within the touchdown zone, of the opposite threshold! :eek:
Also, is it just me or was that landing checklist done a bit late?:\
Luckily for everyone, the A320 has quite good breaks and there was these nice grass beyond that runway and not a big slope.

[Bearcat]

Nearly wet myself watching this! Thankfully all well. Waaaaay too fast and super deep.

[A4]

Difficult to tell, but is that Flap Full? Looks like 3 to me. How long is the runway? Doesn't actually look that wet - you can see "dry" Tarmac during the rollout.

It'll all be in the report no doubt - just glad the only casualty is the crews blushes.

[Big Pistons Forever]

It looks like threshold crossing height was over 200 feet and I make the time from the crossing the end of the runway to touch down as 16 seconds. At 250 feet of runway per second that is 4000 feet :uhoh:

But hey what do you expect for your $ 69 fare :rolleyes:

[Contacttower]

Loving the cabin crew announcement about seatbelts about 5 seconds before touchdown...

[reverserunlocked]

Very late on the cabin warning and equally late on the touchdown too. As pointed out, nothing hurt but pride but it could have been nasty had there not been a nice green field to run off into.

[captplaystation]

Love the comment as they came to a stop on the 1st video (by the guy doing the filming I guess) "Nice Landing" :D indeed, but at the wrong end of the runway.
Lucky it wasn't on a.n.other runway or would have ended rather more dramatically.

Cannot believe the "prepare for landing" flightdeck announcement :=, nor the one from the C.C to the pax :rolleyes:, did anyone have their finger on the pulse here ?

[Doors to Automatic]

Nothing other than reckless incompetence. Lucky for the passengers that there was soft grass for the last 300m of that "landing" and not a ravine. :eek:

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Now, if that had been a Boeing the overrun wouldn't have happened.

[PAXboy]

Every member of staff, particuarly CEO and Chairman/Pres should presume that there will be someone filming Each and Every movement of their a/c and putting it online - possibly before they have even left the terminal building.

Accordingly, every carrier should appreciate this free lesson in 21st century Pax!! But I kinda think they won't like it. :rolleyes:

[punkalouver]

Now, if that had been a Boeing the overrun wouldn't have happened.

Not sure what your point is. If there is one. Useful information is always appreciated.

The runway at Kalibo airport where this happened is 7,545 feet long.

[lilflyboy262...2]

Just stiring the Boeing vs airbus thread. That's all.

[Sqwak7700]

I wonder if their brakes caught fire. You can see the CFR kind of heading towards the tires and then pointing at them. They really are lucky that there was some room at the end of the runway for them to come to a complete stop.

The late PA announcement is very telling. It shows that the flight crew were most likely very busy trying to salvage an approach that was obviously very unstable and therefore forgot their normal duties, i.e., the cabin PAs. I can't understand how cabin crew can't tell when landing gear is deployed and they should take the initiative to seat people. Had people still been standing, or in the lav makes your chances of surviving an overrun quite slim.

I guess you get what you pay for. LCCs in all of Asia are scraping the bottom of the barrel for air crews willing to work for peanuts, and this is the end result. You know that if a carrier is so tight on funds that corners must be getting cut everywhere.

[aviatorhi]

Specifically not trying to go AvB with this comment, but, in the 727 and 737s I've been on I can always hear the binders working overtime when trying to come to a quick stop (groaning sound), was kind of surprised nothing was heard here, or was this crew still in Autobrake 1 (or Airbus equivelant)?

Also, a quick comparison to Google Earth shows roughly 2750 feet from the point of touchdown to the beginning of the overrun. Not sure what the demonstrated distance for the Airbus is so maybe someone could provide that.

Finally, assuming a deceleration rate of approximately 14 ft/s/s the touchdown speed works out to roughly 160 knots.

NOTE: Not trying to provide answers here, just some observations.

[bigjames]

if ever there was a case for a go around...

[VeroFlyer]

Unbelievable!! :eek:

[givemewings]

Unless the video doesn't show it, absolutely nothing from the CC when the plane left the tarmac. How did they know it wasn't going to go pear shaped- should at least have been some brace commands- if they knew what they were doing. Clearly into a 'non-normal' and still nothing. Hope at least there were some instructions to the pax... seems like they kept them sitting while fire dept wa assessing, but the amount of laughter/joking in the background is a bit concerning. It could indicate that things weren't being taken too seriously (by anyone) :oh:

[Phileas Fogg]

This is The Philippines ... nothing should be taken too seriously. :)

At my little local airport they know precisely what to do with the fire engine, as the twice weekly ATR72 roars overhead on the inbound they start the engine, presumably, to charge the battery and, just occasionally, they'll take it for a short drive to perform a runway inspection with it!

[A4]

A320 at MLW has demonstrated landing distance of approx 850m. This is of course with an Airbus hotshot at the controls with a new aircraft on a perfect day over the fence at Vapp at 50' with max manual braking.

So for Joe average line pilot with a slightly used Bus and non perfect technique I'd add a conservative 30% to that - minimum. Add a tailwind ..........

I know hindsight is 20/20 but seeing this and reading the Air Europa GCRR overrun why does this STILL continue to happen? There's enough history/evidence/documentation/articles out there to sink a battleship. You have to have a certain level of common sense/intelligence to get to the front of a jet these days (I know, I know pay To Fly....) so why do crews still think they can pull it off when it should be alarms bells ringing?

A4

[SAS-A321]

why does this STILL continue to happen?

Bad pilots, bad training, ****ty airline! :ugh:

This was as others have mentioned a clear case where a go around should have been performed. I am still shaking my head.

[Agaricus bisporus]

And any professional would know that it is completely impossible to judge landing speed via a camera poking out of a window, or any other way at all without instruments in front of you...

Sure doesn't look like flap Full though.

[Monarch Man]

Incompetant Idiots, pure and simple.

[neville_nobody]

Have a look at 35 secs into the clip and you will notice he has also landed with significant downwind which won't be helping his cause. Short runway too at 1800m.

[4:th of july]

Froze the frame at 0:35 and saw the windsock.
This is a fortunate outcome of a totally unnecessary event.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

I guess some of you missed the little icon at the top of my post...that or you suffered a sense of humour failure.

[B737NG]

The Philippinnes could be added to the Wonders of the World !!

I am wondering what else can happen there and when it happen I am not wondering anymore. Each Pinnoy a lovley Person as a individual and I will certainly miss my Visits at Subic, Angeles, Makati, Malate and Cebu now and then. I had a nice time and I always remember the warm heartet People there. When it comes to professionalism there was always a lack of understanding and taking things seriously the right way. The Video is reflecting that as well.

Afterwards we all know that a G/A would be the proper way of action. Why it was not done? I haven´t been there, I do not know any facts that caused this overrun. I cannot look into Pilots brain and get the undecorated truth.

This is just one bad example to the Public that Pilots are the weakest part of the chain. Interface between the plane and the pilot?

21st Century technology allows this evidence to go public short after the Mobile device has a connection again. Until the FDR is pulled and screened the "clicks" in the NET go into 6 digits....

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[Doors to Automatic]

With regards to the comment about autobrakes if you watch the video carefully it appears that the deceleration rate increased significantly in the last few seconds of runway. I reckon another 300 ft and they would have got away with it albeit with some more-than-luke-warm brakes! Still an appalling landing though.

[crwjerk]

The cost of a go around probably comes out of their pockets.

[Doors to Automatic]

....whilst the cost of not doing a go-around will cost them their careers! ;)

[aterpster]

The boys up front were merely passengers as they departed the runway. It could just as easily been a steep ravine for all they seemed to care.

No third world airlines for me, thank you. Most of the first world carriers are bad enough as it is.

[bcgallacher]

Spent a total of 5 years working at Manila international- witnessed more accidents, both fatal and funny, than in the rest of a forty year career.After being in the 1st Obs seat on many occasions during landing I came to the conclusion that Philippine pilots were more interested in a 'greaser' than where they actually put it down. They could make the smoothest touchdowns I have ever experienced but they were halfway down the runway. On one landing at Kai Tak we had full reverse and braking until we stopped on the piano keys. I could see the water getting closer and was working out whether I could get out of the overhead hatch before the f/e.In spite of that it was the best job I ever had and the crews were among the best. Lovely people to work with.

[aviatorhi]

Agaricus,

Not completely impossible to judge speed, if you know time and assume (or know) a decel rate. The rate I used was 14ft/s/s, which is a reasonable deceleration rate, assuming maximum braking (I wasn't sure it was max anyway, was just making some observations).

Doors, thanks, that demonstrated distance works out to roughly 50 feet more than the runway they had remaining on touchdown.

[flying lid]

Not just Phillipines. This is a lucky, lucky landing.

Toncontin Feb 2009 - Risky Landing - YouTube

[misd-agin]

Appeared to be fast on final. First impression was that the camera speed was increased.

Windsock appears to be about 100-110 degrees off runway heading when ti first appears and changes to almost pure tailwind as the plane goes by.

Tailwind wasn't the problem. Aimpoint and airspeed.

[Just a spotter]

:}
You see what happened there? Truely shocking!! When will people learn to turn off all electrical devices for take off and landing?! This is what happens people, this is what happens! Won't someone think of the children ... and orphans ... and orphaned baby bunnies!

I'll let myself out ...

JAS

[Sikpilot]

if ever there was a case for a go around...What and lose "face"????? :=:=:=

[FullWings]

I know you can't see the instruments but wow! The groundspeed certainly looked impressive as they shot past the threshold and stands.

Considering how far down the runway they actually touched down, the overrun wasn't too bad. What was going through these peoples' minds to carry on like this? (Nothing, I know...) :ouch:

[Check Airman]

Am I the only one who finds this video almost comical?

Pilot makes the PA at one or two hundred feet.

FA makes PA during the flare

Pilot lands well down the runway, with a tailwind

Camera man says it was a nice landing (sarcasm?)

Thankfully nobody was hurt, but the incompetence shown in this video actually gave me a chuckle.

Hope I don't ever have to fly behind one of those guys though.

[thehighlander959]

If I was one of the investigators who was dealing with this incident, I would be asking to see a copy of this video taken by mobile phone. It shows a complete lack of any decision making by the Flight Crew in a seriously dangerous situation.To fast, to high on the approach, no provision for TOGA and no announcement of an overrun tp assengers or CC.

The cabin crew are not exhonerated from any blame either as their emergency drills and operations should have started once they knew that the aircraft was about to depart the active runway.

This was sheer luck nothing more nothing less....

[Walder]

It is easy to point fingers on others – often happening in this forum.
We all know an approach must be stabilized – there might be minor different criteria for each company, but the rule is: An approach must be stabilized.
Therefore it is actually very simple: Not stabilized = Go around.
But where is the limit?
Do we all respect the limit?
I have been thereL – one parameter (flaps) was missing, at the limit point, but my reaction was a correction and then becoming stabilized BELOW the stabilized limit. That was not good. I should have prompted a Go around.
Look at you self: Have you ever been even just slightly unstabilize without going around?
The difficult task is to realize the need for go around in the actual situation, because if we just are slightly unstabilized we might know we are able to be stabilized prior landing and then we might choose to continue as I did.
BUT!!!: If we pass the limit where is the limit then?
So if we all want to be safe – stay within limits!

The limit is not: We did not crash……

http://news.aviation-safety.net/2012/02/17/report-b737-off-runway-in-spain-following-unstabilized-approach-and-high-speed-landing/ (http://news.aviation-safety.net/2012/02/17/report-b737-off-runway-in-spain-following-unstabilized-approach-and-high-speed-landing/)

[nitpicker330]

That's why most respected Airlines have stabilized approach criteria that usually require a mandatory go around if not complied with. Also they specify the touchdown zone ( 1000' to 2000' ) and if on a field limited landing situation you must go around.

However good Airmanship,plain common sense and some aviation ability should have told these guys to go around!!:eek:

Crazy........:=

[M.Mouse]

British Airways has had for over 20 years a program called SESMA.

SESMA monitors pre-set parameters e.g. unstick speed high, excessive bank below a certain height. The pre-sets are fleet specific and can be added, removed or changed. The standalone SESMA tapes are ALL automatically analysed and if a tape has any exceedances it is automatically placed aside for human analysis.

The analysis team (which includes a pilot) examine the exceedance and if, for example, it was a very windy day the exceedance cause might be obvious and the investigation binned. If they want further information the team contact the fleet SEMA rep. who in turn is the only person who can access the crew details and he will call the crew to seek that information. He cannot reveal the crew names to anyone and the chat is strictly confidential.

If the matter involves, say, a deep landing on a very long runway, the matter would be discussed with any mitigating circumstances also discussed and the matter ends but the crew will have been given some food for thought and made aware of transgression in a suitably adult and non-penal way.

If the matter is very serious the rep. would do their utmost to encourage the crew to file an ASR when the matter and crew names would then become known to the powers that be and discussion, review and suitable re-training would ensue.

In reality the crew could refuse, and it has happened, so no further action can be taken but this rarely happens. What does normally happen is the crew are aware at the time of a serious exceedance, realise it will be flagged and file an ASR immediately anyway!

BA has a very open safety culture and providing, as crew, you hold your hand up and admit a mis-judgement you may receive further training but certainly not any disciplinary action.

It may sound a little 'big brother' but the program is readily accepted by all BA pilots that I have ever known (with the anonymity safeguards as above) and I doubt any would say it has anything other than a positive effect on flight safety.

One thing it most certainly achieves is that unwelcome trends will be picked up and newletter articles as well as simulator training focus will address those trends. Fleet SESMA events (disidentified) are published and discussed leading to good fleet awareness.

I know that a some years back there was great opposition from a US airline to the introduction of a similar program, that may have changed now, and I would guess that (natural) opposition would have been based on a mistrust of how the information would be used. In BA the system has been in place for well over 20 years and is probably little known outside BA but its positive worth has been shown many times over. While not eliminating misjudgement and error it goes a long way in trying to prevent landings such as witnessed at the beginning of this thread.

A strong and effective safety culture is difficult to engender and maintain and that is without taking into account cultural and financial issues!

[captplaystation]

OFDM (operational flight data monitoring) or whichever name companies call it, is , I believe, mandatory under JAR/EASA these days, & not just a BA thing, although I believe they were certainly one of the first to introduce it.
Certainly all companies of the European persuasion I have flown for recently have it.
Wholly agree with your assessment , if used wisely & in a non-punitive way it is a major + in ensuring compliance within sensible guidelines.

You may "know" it will be OK, but the need to subsequently justify it in the cold light of day, has the desired effect of making you think twice.

[fireflybob]

Yes OFDM used a lot now - certain big loco states capture for the data (immediate after landing via mobile phone system) is circa 95% - all data to a separate (non company) agency etc.

Also, a signed letter from the CEO to all pilots a few years ago stating that if an approach was continued when stabilisation criteria not met at 500 ft agl , both pilots would be immediately suspensed pending investigations which may lead to dismissal!

[Smudger]

The AB v Boing post was a JOKE people...... Jeezus H Christ on a bicycle.....

[stepwilk]

Hey, there are people on here who don't even understand that when the videographer said "nice landing" as the airplane ran onto the grass, he was kidding. If it doesn't have a smiley-face, they don't get it.

[Doors to Automatic]

Maybe the pilot delayed the touchdown to give the CC member time to finish her announcement! :p

[slf4life]

...in this frugal day and age maybe these guys also do grounds maintenance -

- no need to cut the grass now :ok:

seriously - glad no one was hurt.

[stilton]

Amazing.


Every time I see the video of the 737 landing in Toncontin I am squirming in my seat reaching for brake pedals that are not there. I cannot believe they got it
stopped, it says a lot for the Aeroplane.


The overrun in Spain shown a few posts back showed a similar lack of care.
I do note, like in many similar incidents the crew did not use full reverse until too late.


Another example of the negative training implications in teaching idle reverse.

[d71146]

Agreed, poor planning here they were lucky to get it stopped unscathed,I would expect a change of trousers at the very least here.

[Superpilot]

The "saving ones face" thing needs to be dragged into the 21st century. With the latest in smartphone technology, ones astonishingly foolish decisions (even if they resulted in zero injury or damage) can be broadcast all around the world within minutes allowing the whole world to see. To save ones own face, simply go around!

[lomapaseo]

The "saving ones face" thing needs to be dragged into the 21st century. With the latest in smartphone technology, ones astonishingly foolish decisions (even if they resulted in zero injury or damage) can be broadcast all around the world within minutes allowing the whole world to see. To save ones own face, simply go around!


Either way in the 21st century you will be second guessed ad nauseum.

Forget about saving face, it's all about decision making under pressure and at least the professionals will understand and politely point out their opinions on alternative actions.

[JammedStab]

http://www.caap.gov.ph/images/aaiib/2012acc/RP-C3227.pdf

Final report is out. Not very long reading.

[Big M]

Great to read such an extensive report - that which can only be produced after 4.5 years of solid investigation. Well done, I highly recommend all aviators read and digest this report.

[RAT 5]

On the pax video, page 1, I didn't hear engine reverse, nor did the hand held camera suggest aggressive braking. So what were the crew thinking, and doing? There seemed a little float, but the touchdown caused a little hand shake, so maybe not an absolute greaser. After that it all seemed very relaxed until the 'oops' moment.

[slast]

After many attempts I still get the message
"www.caap.gov.ph’s server DNS address could not be found." from the link... does anyone have a copy of the PDF available please?
Steve

[Ancient-Mariner]

CIVIL AVIATION AUTHORITY OF THE PHILIPPINES
Aircraft Accident Investigation and Inquiry Board
Aircraft Accident Report

BASIC INFORMATION

Aircraft Registration No. : RP-C3227

Make and Model : Airbus S.A.S., A320-214

Name of Operator : Air Philippines Corp.

Date/Time of Accident : February 13, 2012 at 0233 UTC

Type of Operation : Scheduled Commercial

Phase of Operation : Landing

Type of Occurrence : Runway overrun

Place of Accident : Runway 23, Kalibo International Airport (RPVK)

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

At about 0233Z on Monday, February 13, 2012, Airphil Express Flight 969, an Airbus A320-214 (RP-C3227) inbound from Ninoy Aquino International Airport, overran runway 23 in fair weather conditions while landing at Kalibo International Airport. No injuries were reported among the 142 passengers and crew on board. The aircraft came to rest at a grassy portion of the stopway about 56 meters from the end of runway 23. The aircraft did not sustain significant damage.

PROBABLE CAUSE

The Aircraft Accident Investigation and Inquiry Board determined that the probable cause of this accident was:

 CAUSE FACTOR

 Primary Cause Factor

a. Failure of the flight crew to discontinue the approach even though prevailing conditions suggest that a missed approach should have been more appropriate.
(Human Factor)

 Contributory Factor

a. The decision of the Pilot Flying to take runway 23 at less than 4 DME putting them at a high work load that resulted to late configuration of the aircraft. (Human Factor)

SAFETY RECOMMENDATION

As a result of this investigation, the Aircraft Accident Investigation and Inquiry Board made the following safety recommendation:

 CAAP-FSIS to re-examine the operator’s initial and re-current pilot training program, putting strong emphasis on the importance of MISSED APPROACHES when stabilized approach and landing criteria set forth in the company’s Operations Manual are not met.




Investigation Report RP-3227 Page 1 of 1

[slast]

Thanks A-M,
I was about to ask if you actually had the whole thing, then tried again, only to realise that you HAD given me the entire thing! Monumentally useless report.
Thanks anyway!

[deeceethree]

Monumentally useless report.
More like a negligent and incompetent report! It is a useless and pathetic attempt at 'investigation'! :rolleyes: