Hand starting.

[ChrisVJ]

Reports of a fatal accident in San Diego trying to hand swing a Cherokee.

Without making any comment on this particular accident:

I can understand the circumstances in which all sorts of people might want to hand start an airplane, I am just wondering how many would try and have they had any training.

Mind you: When I was learning to fly I was "trained" to hand swing. It consisted of

"Check for chocks or brakes (G*D, we used to try it on the brakes,)

"Check the switches are off

Stand here ' like this' and pull the prop through three times,

Turn the switches on,

Stand 'like this' (outside the prop arc,) and pull like this (one hand on tip only,) swing leg back and step away as she goes through.


It was about three minutes training only and then everyone seemed to think we were competent. I only once, and shortly after, had to do it for real. These days I don't think I would even consider it, anyway my Rotax is behind structural cables and geared so I don't even go near it unless I have checked everything is turned off, twice.

[Pilot DAR]

It would be nice if all planes had starters, but some just do not. The Tiger Moth was hand propped for me last month, though I would have done it, had I not been the "compotent person" at the controls. I was trained to hand prop decades ago, and have started many. I avoid doing it, when there is a safer alternative, but sometimes, it's the only way.

I cannot imagine certifying a plane now, which required hand strting, and when I consider the huge liability associated with it, I'm surprised the the regulations are silent on hand starting aircraft which are equipped with a starter.

I hand propped my buddy's 150 for him when he had a flat battery. "mags off?"... "mags off!". I swing, it starts. I look at him with a look of disgust through the arc of the prop. He holds up the keys for me to see.

In the most extreme case, I manned the controls while a friend hand propped his 185 amphibian, with a 3 bladed prop. The IO 520 can be a difficult engine to start at the best of times, but to his credit, he got it started, and I kept it running long enough for him to get in.

Great care, after training...... (sorry about the fellow in San Diego)

[achimha]

It would be interesting to find out how such incidents are treated by courts and insurance companies. This way one could establish what constitutes negligence.

I am convinced that doing it just by yourself (even with chocks) would be considered to be negligent. Doing it with a passenger in the cockpit might be even worse. If you know what you're doing and you having a knowledgable person in the cockpit (not necessarily a licensed pilot), you should be OK.

Many people don't know that the prop can snap backwards, that is a major source of accidents when hand-propping. The concept of the top dead center isn't widely known either.

I have a C172M where charging the battery requires me to disassemble half of the airplane and I have hand-propped it many times. This usually attracts a whole crowd of spectators, 90% of whom consider you to be crazy.

[pasir]

Hand swinging a prop is something I have managed to avoid but thought the following may be of interest as by coincidence am reading about the murderer Hume who around 1949 killed and cut up a body - hired an Auster from Elstree and dropped the body in the Bradwell Bay area - On the trip he lost his way - landed in a field for directions and then apparantly called upon a complete stranger to swing the prop. !

...

[blue up]

About time someone invented a bolt-on starting system that starts the engine on a fixed after-TDC timing and has a short run time before it ceases to provide sparks. Surely that could be designed to bolt between the mag body and the cap where the ignition wire slot in? Easy start, no kick-back and will not run away if you leave full throttle on.

Leburg has an easy start feature but no cut-off unless you knock the fuel tap off before you swing it.

(Posted this before but usually interests someone)
Running the engne on a Clutton F.R.E.D. - YouTube


PS Tailskid bolted to the concrete. First day out of my plastercasts after broken thumbs.

[Rod1]

It is not possible to hand start a Rotax 912.

“I am convinced that doing it just by yourself (even with chocks) would be considered to be negligent.”

Very common practice to do this on LAA single seaters. Personally, I used to tie the tail to a big tree as an additional precaution.

Rod1

[propellerhead01]

Plane Accident - YouTube

[propellerhead01]

Fake, but im sure its happened to some unlucky chap.

[muten]

I heard once an instructor recommending his trainee that if he has to start the prop manually, he must do it from behind the prop (next to the engine cowl), so in the case that everything goes wrong, you are not in the path of the aircraft. This tip was for a P28 and a C172. Sure it's not the most comfortable way to spin the prop, but he had a point with the fact that your are not in front of the aircraft. What do you think?

[propellerhead01]

Depends on what type of aircraft,

on the cub i was told to stand behind the prop next to the cowling, wouldn’t be poss with the tigermoth (well i wouldnt do it)and nor would it be poss with my plane, not enough room between the leading edge of the wing and the prop. your more likely to do your self a mischief getting back out..

[trex450]

I recall an elderly chap at a Popham one day who was preparing to hand start his Cub by himself. The aircraft was parked on the slope just east of the clubhouse, he prepared everything inside, then went and moved the chocks from behind the wheels to in front of them. He then wandered around to the front of the prop after one last look at the windsock, turned round to get on with the job only to see several people, myself included, running after his aeroplane to save it running into a couple of parked Cessna's.
Several morals there I reckon!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

We often hand-prop the Chipmunk. With a low compression long stroke engine like the Gipsy it's no problem. This is how we do it, but don't do it yourself unless a competant person has trained you about techique, where and how to stand etc.

The swinger is the boss and gives the orders. The pilot follows them and confirms mags on or off with thumb up or thumb down to the swinger.

"Brakes on (push on the wing to confirm this), throttle closed, mags off", suck in (and always treat it as 'live' because if a mag switch or cable has failed, it will be!).

"Throttle set"

"CONTACT!" (Not "ON", as this can sound like "OFF" on a noisy apron). The pilot switches on RH mag only (the one with the impulse).

Using the flat of your hand (don't curl your fingers around the blade just in case the pilot has switched on both mags and it kicks back) pull the prop down as you step away backwards.

Assuming you primed OK and your engine is OK, it will fire up. By the time it's done one revolution you will be well clear; it doesn't burst into immediate 2100 rpm life!

The Cub (L4) I used to prop from behind. This could be done solo as you can reach the mag switches and the prop at the same time.

I have hand-propped Lycomings, but I don't like it. It just doesn't (unlike the Gipsy and the 65hp Continental) feel 'right'.

[Mixed Up]

This subject pops up from time to time.

The fact is that, at least in the UK, a significant number of flyers hand start their engines week in, week out, without problems. I am not aware of a single serious or fatal injury caused specifically by hand-starting in the last few decades but there have, I think, been a couple of runaway incidents. (And there have been unrelated propeller incidents. Propellers are dangerous!)

Owners are often told to have another "competent person" at the controls but most owners prefer to do it themselves. They have a routine and someone else involved destroys this. The owner gets to know his aircraft and hand-starting is a bit of a fine art particular to each aircraft.

If hand-starting an aircraft not known or not of a type that is normally hand-started (e.g. due to a flat battery) I would recommend at least two "competent persons" because the "fine art" model doesn't apply and one is in virgin territory. This is a very different scenario.

[Charlie Foxtrot India]

It looks like an Arrow 200R. Can be hard to start when hot...quite a big engine to hand swing...Battery is easy to get at and ours also has an external power socket. Sad if they were in such a hurry that they couldn't wait to replace or charge it up. Terrible thing to happen.

[S-Works]

Our Auster was written off by a muppet hand propping his own aircraft solo which on full throttle promptly jumped the chocks ran across the airfield and obliterated our aicraft.

I have hand propped a PA28 on more than 1 occassion with a flat battery and plenty of others that have no starter. I don't really like doing it but sometimes needs must and all that!!

[propellerhead01]

Just make sure you dont have any rings on!!!!!

[patowalker]

It is not possible to hand start a Rotax 912.

Not so. If it doesn't have a slipper clutch it can be hand started. Ask the CAA's Head of General Aviation.

[Rod1]

“Not so. If it doesn't have a slipper clutch it can be hand started. Ask the CAA's Head of General Aviation.”

Well I do not know how much he knows about Rotax 912, but you cannot turn the engine at sufficient speed using the prop to activate the discharge capacitors in the ignition system to get a spark.

Rod1

[Pilot DAR]

Bear in mind that for some types of Lycoming starter motors, if you have tried to start electrically, and run the battery flat doing that, the starter pinion often remains engaged to the ring gear, and this will make hand propping the engine extremely difficult.You'll know if you try!

On the other hand, for Continentals, if you have had a starter drive failure (as opposed to simple flat battery), and the starter won't start the engine because of that, THE ENGINE SHOULD NOT BE STARTED! The starter drive must be replaced first, or it is likely it will fill the engine with metal from the damaged drive.

[rans6andrew]

Rod1 - wrong again.

Of course you can hand prop a 912. See

Air Accidents Investigation: Skyranger 912(2), G-CCXM (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/september_2005/skyranger_912_2___g_ccxm.cfm)

for the sad case of one that bit the owner when he hand propped it before it went and took a bite out of a hedge.

Rans6......

[Rod1]

rans6andrew I am astounded! That goes against everything I had been told about the ignition pack. Thanks for the link.

Rod1

[Maoraigh1]

. Doing it with a passenger in the cockpit might be even worse. If you know what you're doing and you having a knowledgable person in the cockpit (not necessarily a licensed pilot), you should be OK.

I've handstarted with no-one in the cockpit of our Jodel DR1050, and I'm happy to do so with a pilot or engineer familiar with the type at the controls, but NEVER would I start with a passenger inside.
I got a scare when senior airline engineer offered to sit in and keep the engine running until I got in. He thought the throttle operated in reverse, and initially froze when the plane jumped the chocks at full throttle.

[gasax]

Fair numbner of 'Daily Mail' type comments - I hope you all wear dayglo vests when going to the shops!

It is a straight forward and easy process. It needs either one competent and careful person who is very familiar with the aircraft or one competent person and someone who actually knows how tro operate the aircraft. Less than that and things can go very wrong. With that - a complete non-issue.

I've only started engines up to 300hp - but I'm told it is no more difficult for the bigger radials. For 3 years it was nearly the only method of satarting my Gipsy - usually single handed.

Yes you need to be careful - particularly singler handed. But it is not difficult.

I really must try my Rotax, like Rod I had read it was not possible. It is a fierce little engine so naturally I'll take care. But it would be useful to have that in the back pocket.

[B2N2]

:ugh:
Following a 50-hour check, the aircraft’s ignition switch was left in the RIGHT position, with no key in the switch, due to the use of an incorrect key. During the next pre-flight inspection the pilot perceived that the ignition switch was in the OFF position. As he turned the propeller by hand, as required by the aircraft’s EXTERNAL INSPECTION checklist, the engine started and ran at full power. The aircraft broke free of its tie-downs, struck a parked aircraft and crashed into an earth embankment. Safety action has been taken concerning the content of the aircraft’s flight manual and service manual checklists.



Air Accidents Investigation: Beagle B121 Series 1 Pup, G-AXPM (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/december_2011/beagle_b121_series_1_pup__g_axpm.cfm)

[smarthawke]

When on Conrad Beale's excellent Rotax 912/914 course, he emphasied that it is possible to swing a Rotax. If Conrad says it can be done, that's good enough for me.

I'll swing tail draggers that are designed to be swung but not nose wheel aircraft - most of which require it because of a duff starter or electrical system. Fix the problem, that's what we engineers are for!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I observed, first hand, last Saturday a Rotax 912 on a flexwing being hand-swung (flat battery). It started easily, on the first swing.

[patowalker]

Well I do not know how much he knows about Rotax 912, but you cannot turn the engine at sufficient speed using the prop to activate the discharge capacitors in the ignition system to get a spark.


He learnt the hard way :)

Air Accidents Investigation: Skyranger 912(2), G-CCXM (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/september_2005/skyranger_912_2___g_ccxm.cfm)

[Sir George Cayley]

27# posts and no mention of a safety procedure when solo hand swinging.

Turn the fuel off.

Then if something bad happens it will only happen so long as the fuel downstream of your cock is exhausted.

I love the Armstrong method of starting engines. Especially when one gets to know a particular donk and you feel its every nuance of starting.

Once started a 300hp 3 blader - that was sporting:eek:

SGC

[ShyTorque]

I used to work with a certain ppl holder with a lightweight Rotax powered biplane (Renegade Spirit). He was having trouble pull-starting the engine in the normal way so decided to give it a go from outside. He thought he had covered all his bases by tying the tail-wheel to the hangar door framework with a piece of rope.

I think he'd flooded the engine so he tried increasing amounts of throttle. When the engine finally fired he had the throttle open a long way. The too-weak tether broke and the aircraft set off by itself. He decided to grab the wing as the aircraft rotated around him on the concrete dispersal. You can imagine the rest. Round and round until he was dizzy so he finally had to let go. The aircraft shot off again, got to the end of the concrete and nosed over hard on the grass.

He didn't keep it long after that.

[Dan Winterland]

Once, all pilots were proficient at prop swinging - they had no choice. And I'm sure the expertese was gained the hard way! And the aircraft were designed for it. The Gypsy Major is easy to hand swing - usually the prop is mounted on the crankshaft so it's natural - for a right hander anyway.

Apart from a few vintage aircraft which require it, the skill is no longer needed and has been largely lost. This should ring alarm bells in anyone going to try it without training. I was trained to do it and apporach any handswing with the appropriate level of caution. This saved me or someone else fro being maimed many years ago when my own aircraft had a flat battery. A couple of guys in the syndicate were attempting to start it and I didn't like what I saw, so I volunteered to supervise which ended up with me doing the swinging. Despite a very careful briefing to the pilot, he decided to switch mags and accidently tuned the starter. This is when discovered that the battery wasn't actually flat (it was a solenoid problem) when the engine started. Luckily, my caution prevented me being injured. If the original swinger had continued, I reckon he wouldn't have been so fortunate. As someone said, if it's designed to start with a starter and doesn't - get the engineers to sort it.

As for swinging from behind, I'm not sure how easy that would be on a Gypsy powerd aircraft. My Fournier RF3 didn't have a starter and was always swung from behind. You stood next to the cockpit with youh right hand on the throttle, swung with your left hand. When the engine was running, you pulled the chock (single main wheel) and stepped on to the wing into the cockpit. Never any drama.

Chocking is essential. However, a friend of mine who had a Chipmunk with a cartridge starter had a novel approach. He had a shotgun certificate which allowed him to buy cartridges, but used to hand swing on his own as much as possible as the cartridges were a fiver a time even in the 1980s. His aircraft had a glider tow hook. So he screwed a large auger into the ground, attached to which by a short piece of rope were a set of glider 'Otfur' rings. He hooked the Chippy to the auger, poining into wind, handswung, climbed in and when ready to taxy, just pulled the rope release. Brilliant!

[AfricanEagle]

Man Struck In Head By Propeller At Gillespie Field Dies - San Diego News Story - KGTV San Diego (http://www.10news.com/news/30332568/detail.html)

:sad:

[POBJOY]

Aircraft that had to be hand started were all tail draggers, had wooden props that were fitted on the engine to give the optimum position for swinging,and the 'swinger' properly trained.This used to be of the 'swing and walk away' operation that made it as safe as possible in the circumstances, and also required the presence in the cockpit of someone trained in the procedure.
The 'emergency' swinging of a metal prop on a nosewheel machine is possible as we know, but can require two hands,and because of the height factor rarely allows a 'walk away' motion.The consequences of a mishap in the operation really should be borne in mind before undertaking it,and then a 'jump' or battery change considered.Better a half hour delay than 'playing with props'.

[john ball]

POBJOY.

I seem to remember you hand swinging the Comper and then having to take out the petrol soaked rag from the carb intake --- those were the wonderful carefree days at the Tiger Club. But you knew what you were doing, unlike the guy that hand swung Marcus's Auster/Terrifier with the mags on and full throttle. It then proceded to eat its way through Turb G-ASSY and the Mew Gull, then headed towards Neil refueling the Gull Six at the pumps, while we all ran and hid behind the Hangar doors. Michael then just calmly brought out his broom and swept away the bits !!!!.

[foxmoth]

Once started a 300hp 3 blader - that was sporting

Yup, done the same for a certain Writer/display pilot - get it in the right place to swing, then if it does not start pull through 2 compressions (with care and mags off) to get the prop back in the right position, not a great one to swing.:cool:

[blue up]

I watched Ron Webster hand starting a Whirlwind by taking out 2 plugs so that he could get a good swing before a plug fired it through compression. When warmed up (and before everyone deaf) it was stopped and the last 2 plugs put back in.
DC3s could be hand started with a rope round the hub but I've never seen it done.

[POBJOY]

The Comper could be swung from behind the prop with ready access to the switches and throttle.Of course the BTH mags were coupled direct to the throttle so giving a retarded setting on start up.
When i first fired it up (1974) it sounded as if there were no bearings fitted,but in fact it was just the 'backlash' in the reduction box. The fuel soaked rag always caused amusement to onlookers.
The Tubs (VW Engine) had to be 'flicked' like a giant model,always interesting when getting 5 started for a display.