Hand starting.
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kelowna Wine Country
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Hand starting.
Reports of a fatal accident in San Diego trying to hand swing a Cherokee.
Without making any comment on this particular accident:
I can understand the circumstances in which all sorts of people might want to hand start an airplane, I am just wondering how many would try and have they had any training.
Mind you: When I was learning to fly I was "trained" to hand swing. It consisted of
"Check for chocks or brakes (G*D, we used to try it on the brakes,)
"Check the switches are off
Stand here ' like this' and pull the prop through three times,
Turn the switches on,
Stand 'like this' (outside the prop arc,) and pull like this (one hand on tip only,) swing leg back and step away as she goes through.
It was about three minutes training only and then everyone seemed to think we were competent. I only once, and shortly after, had to do it for real. These days I don't think I would even consider it, anyway my Rotax is behind structural cables and geared so I don't even go near it unless I have checked everything is turned off, twice.
Without making any comment on this particular accident:
I can understand the circumstances in which all sorts of people might want to hand start an airplane, I am just wondering how many would try and have they had any training.
Mind you: When I was learning to fly I was "trained" to hand swing. It consisted of
"Check for chocks or brakes (G*D, we used to try it on the brakes,)
"Check the switches are off
Stand here ' like this' and pull the prop through three times,
Turn the switches on,
Stand 'like this' (outside the prop arc,) and pull like this (one hand on tip only,) swing leg back and step away as she goes through.
It was about three minutes training only and then everyone seemed to think we were competent. I only once, and shortly after, had to do it for real. These days I don't think I would even consider it, anyway my Rotax is behind structural cables and geared so I don't even go near it unless I have checked everything is turned off, twice.
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It would be nice if all planes had starters, but some just do not. The Tiger Moth was hand propped for me last month, though I would have done it, had I not been the "compotent person" at the controls. I was trained to hand prop decades ago, and have started many. I avoid doing it, when there is a safer alternative, but sometimes, it's the only way.
I cannot imagine certifying a plane now, which required hand strting, and when I consider the huge liability associated with it, I'm surprised the the regulations are silent on hand starting aircraft which are equipped with a starter.
I hand propped my buddy's 150 for him when he had a flat battery. "mags off?"... "mags off!". I swing, it starts. I look at him with a look of disgust through the arc of the prop. He holds up the keys for me to see.
In the most extreme case, I manned the controls while a friend hand propped his 185 amphibian, with a 3 bladed prop. The IO 520 can be a difficult engine to start at the best of times, but to his credit, he got it started, and I kept it running long enough for him to get in.
Great care, after training...... (sorry about the fellow in San Diego)
I cannot imagine certifying a plane now, which required hand strting, and when I consider the huge liability associated with it, I'm surprised the the regulations are silent on hand starting aircraft which are equipped with a starter.
I hand propped my buddy's 150 for him when he had a flat battery. "mags off?"... "mags off!". I swing, it starts. I look at him with a look of disgust through the arc of the prop. He holds up the keys for me to see.
In the most extreme case, I manned the controls while a friend hand propped his 185 amphibian, with a 3 bladed prop. The IO 520 can be a difficult engine to start at the best of times, but to his credit, he got it started, and I kept it running long enough for him to get in.
Great care, after training...... (sorry about the fellow in San Diego)
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It would be interesting to find out how such incidents are treated by courts and insurance companies. This way one could establish what constitutes negligence.
I am convinced that doing it just by yourself (even with chocks) would be considered to be negligent. Doing it with a passenger in the cockpit might be even worse. If you know what you're doing and you having a knowledgable person in the cockpit (not necessarily a licensed pilot), you should be OK.
Many people don't know that the prop can snap backwards, that is a major source of accidents when hand-propping. The concept of the top dead center isn't widely known either.
I have a C172M where charging the battery requires me to disassemble half of the airplane and I have hand-propped it many times. This usually attracts a whole crowd of spectators, 90% of whom consider you to be crazy.
I am convinced that doing it just by yourself (even with chocks) would be considered to be negligent. Doing it with a passenger in the cockpit might be even worse. If you know what you're doing and you having a knowledgable person in the cockpit (not necessarily a licensed pilot), you should be OK.
Many people don't know that the prop can snap backwards, that is a major source of accidents when hand-propping. The concept of the top dead center isn't widely known either.
I have a C172M where charging the battery requires me to disassemble half of the airplane and I have hand-propped it many times. This usually attracts a whole crowd of spectators, 90% of whom consider you to be crazy.
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Hand swinging a prop is something I have managed to avoid but thought the following may be of interest as by coincidence am reading about the murderer Hume who around 1949 killed and cut up a body - hired an Auster from Elstree and dropped the body in the Bradwell Bay area - On the trip he lost his way - landed in a field for directions and then apparantly called upon a complete stranger to swing the prop. !
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About time someone invented a bolt-on starting system that starts the engine on a fixed after-TDC timing and has a short run time before it ceases to provide sparks. Surely that could be designed to bolt between the mag body and the cap where the ignition wire slot in? Easy start, no kick-back and will not run away if you leave full throttle on.
Leburg has an easy start feature but no cut-off unless you knock the fuel tap off before you swing it.
(Posted this before but usually interests someone)
PS Tailskid bolted to the concrete. First day out of my plastercasts after broken thumbs.
Leburg has an easy start feature but no cut-off unless you knock the fuel tap off before you swing it.
(Posted this before but usually interests someone)
PS Tailskid bolted to the concrete. First day out of my plastercasts after broken thumbs.
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It is not possible to hand start a Rotax 912.
“I am convinced that doing it just by yourself (even with chocks) would be considered to be negligent.”
Very common practice to do this on LAA single seaters. Personally, I used to tie the tail to a big tree as an additional precaution.
Rod1
“I am convinced that doing it just by yourself (even with chocks) would be considered to be negligent.”
Very common practice to do this on LAA single seaters. Personally, I used to tie the tail to a big tree as an additional precaution.
Rod1
