NEWQUAY

[Phileas Fogg]

And whoever came up with a Newquay to Kidlington route? Wasn't this discussion supposed to be regarding a London route? Strewth, they'll be discussing Newquay to Ashford next!

[putneyuk]

What about Lydd!...........I'll get my coat

[Fairdealfrank]

Hampton, as in Hampton Court, actually but have never lived in Middlesex in my life, the family lived just over the river in Kingston, Surrey


Just as good, Phileas, good enough for a king. In fact all of the Middlesex-Surrey section of the Thames Valley is a great place to live, flightpaths notwithstanding.

For those who think this wrong, consider why house prices are so high and why so many of the "rich and famous" choose to live in that part of the world.

[Phileas Fogg]

Just as good, Phileas, good enough for a king. In fact all of the Middlesex-Surrey section of the Thames Valley is a great place to live, flightpaths notwithstanding.

Alas no 20% VAT, no 75 y/o retirement age and certainly no flight path here on Cloud 9. The tiny airport is on the other side of the island and the only aircraft we've seen this side of the island are the Google Earth updating aeroplane and a seaplane that brought Brad Pitt and his missus in and out earlier this year :)

Life here does have it's challenges though: :)

http://www.usno.navy.mil/NOOC/nmfc-ph/RSS/jtwc/warnings/wp3113.gif

[SWBKCB]

Coincidence? Who believes in coincidence! :suspect: :suspect:

G-BIHO DHC-6-310 Twin Otter Isles of Scilly Skybus | Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/chrischenn76/10742294714/)

[Wycombe]

That coincidence is apparently going to re-occur at the 'Bushe on Monday. Todays arrival was actually from Lands End/St Just, not NQY.

[Set 1013]

You may all want to watch the news tomorrow! :ok:

[cornishsimon]

Nice to see a BA A319 in today doing some circuit bashing, routed ex SNN and was G-EUPN.


cs

[Cloud1]

Set, can you give a bit more information please

[Whispering Giant]

According to the local news. Flybe are now set to continue it's NQY to London service until October 2014. This will apparently give NQY airport time to PSO funding for the route to continue.

brgds

W.G

[Wycombe]

Here is that news, although it is tempered with a "the BBC understands" caveat.

BBC News - Newquay-to-Gatwick Flybe route threat lifted (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-25177975)

I notice it talks about a twice a day service, which would be a reduction on the current operation.

Which leads me to wonder whether the a/c will be pressed into service on other routes out of NQY (in addition to the current MAN trips) between the LGW rotations?

[Set 1013]

We may also see a summer route between NQY and BHX. According to the Express and Echo.:ok:

[davidjohnson6]

Have Flybe effectively bought back a couple of Gatwick slot pairs from Easyjet ?

[cornishsimon]

Wasn't it WW that previously did BHX on the 737 seasonally ex NQY ?

Sounds like BE are keeping the NQY based dash and looking at routes to use it on around the two slot pairs at LGW.

Guessing MAN will continue to operate on the NQY bases DH8.


cs

[simoncorbett]

BMI baby did do flights from BHX for a couple of summers & then moved the flights from EMA, also FLYBE did flights from BHX for peak summer the year after BMI....

[Wycombe]

Times are now up on the Flybe site for the S14 NQY-LGW operation, which looks like twice daily, 7 days a week, as follows:

BE801 NQY-LGW 07:45 09:00 M T W T F Sa Su - - 30-Mar-14 - 25-Oct-14
BE802 LGW-NQY 09:30 10:40 M T W T F Sa Su - - 31-Mar-14 - 25-Oct-14

BE805 NQY-LGW 18:25 19:40 M T W T F Sa Su - - 30-Mar-14 - 25-Oct-14
BE806 LGW-NQY 20:10 21:20 M T W T F Sa Su - - 05-Apr-14 - 25-Oct-14

Which means an 11 hour window for day-trippers from NQY.

It also means Flybe have 7hr 45min to do something with the a/c between the London rotations, easily time for 2 domestic sectors.

[davidjohnson6]

Move from a Do328 with 30 pax to a Q400 with 60 pax, and the various airport charges drops by about £50 per person to about £64 per head.

But that is costs per fitted seat rather than per fare paying passenger.

No - these costs are per passenger, not per available seat.

[Phileas Fogg]

DJ,

So come the winters how does 30 pax on a Do328 compare to 30 pax on a Q400 taking in to consideration Eurocontrol, landing/navigation/handling fees, fuel burn, additional crew salaries and anything else that doesn't spring to mind at this moment in time?

[davidjohnson6]

Does LGW-NQY need to be 3x daily in winter, or would 2x daily on weekdays and 1x daily at weekends suffice ? I note that even for S14, Flybe are doing just 14x weekly on the route
On that basis, could 35 pax 21x weekly perhaps translate into maybe 50 pax 12x weekly ?

[Phileas Fogg]

DJ,

Does one really want to get up at stupid o'clock of a morning when they might have a 5pm connection out of London or they might be going to the opera or theatre in London for the evening and have a hotel that they might not be able to check-in to until after 2pm of an afternoon?

Lo-Co's operate filghts at stupid o'clocks for, often, stupid fares, NQY is not a LoCo route, it is a business route, the Cornish can be extremely faithful folk, look after them and they'll look after you, so why not operate flights when people actually want to travel?

[GROUNDHOG]

Frequency, frequency, as Phileas says it is a business route so twice daily is not ideal, long term smaller and more often is far more preferable. The fare is not so critical it is not a low cost route. Overall then, the best they could do with just a day return so hopefully it will attract some good support. Can't see me using it a lot as my regular flight departs LHR at 1700 and returns at 1250 so it will still be two one way car hires I think. Doing it next week and the cost of the car round trip is just £130 plus fuel for me, Lady Groundhog and a mountain of baggage which weighs about 80 kilos. Flybe would charge that for the baggage alone!!

[cornishsimon]

Ahhhhh for a connecting flight into LHR on a certain legacy airline ;)


cs

[GROUNDHOG]

As has been said before, funny old thing progress when back in the 1970's we could have flown from Newquay to Heathrow or Gatwick as we pleased and four times a day at that......

[Skipness One Echo]

As has been said before, funny old thing progress when back in the 1970's we could have flown from Newquay to Heathrow or Gatwick as we pleased and four times a day at that......
What was the price in those days? Be interesting to compare versus inflation for today. The LHR of the 1970s barely managed connections between British Airways' European and Overseas divisions, not sure how easy third party connections were to the world.

[Phileas Fogg]

Not during the 1970's, but during the 1980's, a quaint little west country airline called Brymon operated services to/from both LHR and LGW.

LHR services became on a codeshare with BA whilst the LGW services became under the "British Caledonian Commuter Services" brand, codeshares with both major players out of LHR and LGW.

If such has been done before then such can be done again except not out of LHR and perhaps not out of LGW, perhaps LTN for London and perhaps MAN for codeshare and/or other connections.

[GROUNDHOG]

In 1970 the one way fare on Westward Airways BN2A Islander was £18 from LHR to ISC via PLH and NQY, not sure about the return fare but PLH was slightly less if I recall. LGW/LHR was £4 one way and £5 for a day return, wrote all the tickets out by hand, still have some blank ones so thought about turning up at Lands End with an ISC one made out to see what the reaction is! Publicity stunt perhaps!!.

There was virtually no advertising, no interline agreements and as I recall a lot of staff travelled on the flights, possibly why there were few passengers.. By 1971 it was all over until Brymon came along.

Years later,when BA pulled out of the prop market it is rumoured NQY was the most profitable route they did. The fare then was £250 so it doesn't have to be cheap...

[Phileas Fogg]

By 1971 it was all over until Brymon came along.


Ahem:

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1053908M.jpg

Type:
Handley Page HPR.7 Herald 214

Owner / Operator:
British Midland Airways (BD / BMA)

Location:
RAF St Mawgan / Newquay (NQY / EGDG), UK - England

Date:
1974

[xtypeman]

Ahh the good old Herald there was also G-ATIG that was taken over by Brymon for the LHR route.

[Centre cities]

Birmingham seems to be bookable daily from the 16/5/14.

Centre cities

[cornishsimon]

Suppose that leaves the question, what will the DH8 do after arriving back from
BHX at 1405 and departing for LGW at 1825 ?



cs

[Deano777]

A Manchester

[cornishsimon]

So the Manchester schedule is going to change ?


cs

[bad bear]

Is the Gatwick going to use the old slot timings, or will they get "off peak" slots?

bb

[LAX_LHR]

The only way the slot can be used for MAN is if the flight uses the NQY based aircraft rather than a MAN based aircraft.

[cornishsimon]

Doesn't the current schedule show it using a NQY based aircraft for the MAN ?

But unless the times are changing or NQY is getting a second aircraft it won't work as the aircraft will be heading to MAN & BHX at the same time !

cs

[Deano777]

I don't think we're getting a second aircraft in NQY but according to the schedule the BHX is emanating from NQY and returning so unless it flies into NQY from somewhere else first then I guess the times will have to change.

I would assume the schedule would be something like this:

NQY - LGW
NQY - BHX
NQY - MAN
NQY - LGW

[MADTASS]

Cornishsimon.

Do you know, now that you come to mention it, at the last Staff meeting, i"m pretty sure that was mentioned, it just seems to ring a Bell.
ie: NQY-BHX-MAN-BHX-NQY.

Something to do with better Utilization of Aircraft.
Back in on Saturday so i will try to find out for sure as i could be totally wrong.

[cornishsimon]

Yes the schedules were updated to show the based aircraft doing:
NQY-LGW-NQY-BHX-NQY-MAN-NQY-LGW-NQY.

Also worth noting that CCC have decided to scrap the drop off charge for the car park from Monday.

Also..... NQY is now bookable via the EK website and offers connections via flybe ex NQY through MAN, BHX and LGW under the BE flight codes.

Looks like that is at least heading in the right direction.


cs

[cornishsimon]

Sadly reported on the SEN thread that SEN-NQY has been quietly dropped despite being previously put on sale.

No sign yet if they will start STN or LTN instead.

LPL currently remains available.



cs

[Heathrow Harry]

well at least that's some sense on the drop-off charge.........

nut I can't see how Newquay can survive with such a low home population - maybe 60,000 people before its faster & more convenient to go by train or car

[CabinCrewe]

interesting the recurring views on small regional airports from those living near "heathrow". Mmm.

[Fairdealfrank]

well at least that's some sense on the drop-off charge.........

nut I can't see how Newquay can survive with such a low home population - maybe 60,000 people before its faster & more convenient to go by train or car



interesting the recurring views on small regional airports from those living near "heathrow". Mmm.





How's this for a view from "those living near "heathrow"", from those under the flightpath:


One reason (among many) for Heathrow expansion is to allow, once again, proper connectivity with smaller local and regional UK airports. They need it to prosper or survive, Heathrow needs it for feeder flights for the increased longhaul flights that become possible with expansion.

It's not more convenient by train. Too many changes and hassle with tubes in London zone 1 (especially with baggage). Even from the west it is not possible to go direct to Heathrow by train, it is necessary to go all the way up to London and backtrack.

If driving, there are issues with congestion, delays and parking.

This (and a longstanding openskies arrangement) has allowed KLM to link 20+ UK airports to Schiphol, and clean up! That's convenience!

[No RYR for me]

One reason (among many) for Heathrow expansion is to allow, once again, proper connectivity with smaller local and regional UK airports. Nope that is the way Heathrow sells it to get your local MPs support... :}

[IFPS man]

But you can connect to LHR via the RailAir links from Reading or Woking....

[cornishsimon]

Ever tried that trip ?

Interestingly, you can book via Ek and do NQY-DXB with one stop via MAN,LGW or even BHX but there's no easy option to get to say BFS or JER ?!!!


cs

[MARKEYD]

Atlantic Holidays have pulled the 1 Funchal charter flight in the summer using Sata Airbus A320 ( In fact the Sata programme with Atlantic holidays has been puled from all the UK regional airports e.g. NWI , IOM , BOH , CWL etc )

[Set 1013]

No easy option to get to Belfast or Jersey. Exeter is only just down the road with direct and regular flights to both. Come on you cant have every destination available at your finger tips!:rolleyes:

[cornishsimon]

Jersey and Belfast was just an example !

Destinations from NQY are
LGW daily
MAN daily but seasonally not daily
LPL summer not daily
EDI summer not daily
BHX summer daily
Belfast and Newcastle are once weekly summer only.

It's not a case of having every destination available, but the current options for inbound and outbound travelers are pitiful.
cs

[Skipness One Echo]

but the current options for inbound and outbound travelers are pitiful.
In fairness a lot of airlines have had a go, Newquay just isn't a goldmine for any of them. It's a seasonal UK destination massively subject to APD and the vagaries of tourism. The current offering is what the market will support without even more taxpayer subsidy.

The departure tax is a sign of how desperate they are!

[Heathrow Harry]

"This (and a longstanding openskies arrangement) has allowed KLM to link 20+ UK airports to Schiphol, and clean up! That's convenience"


Frank - most of the UK airports that link to Schipol are a bugger to get to locally - try Leeds for example - and you have to allow 45-60 minutes to egtthere

Newquay could be linked to LHR but the demand is just not there - same as Dundee, Sheffield, Doncaster, Teeside etc etc

[fromredtogreen]

There is a demand for London > NQY though.

I personally rode the 0720 up 37 times last year and can vouch for decent load factors.

I think more of an issue is management. The loss of ATC on mil handover, the passenger departure levy, etc.

I can't help but think if this was handed over to BAA or the like we would stand more of a fighting chance.

The airport in it's entirety as a resource should be able to be commercially viable and is increasingly so with the re-location of AW, the air ambulance, Coventry museum etc.

Scrap the departure tax, offer some decent incentives for the low cost carriers and the odd benidorm charter.....

[Heathrow Harry]

airports like Aberdeen are/were desperate to get rid of BAA - who only think of LHR profits

[Fairdealfrank]

Heathrow accessability

But you can connect to LHR via the RailAir links from Reading or Woking....


Good point! does the bus go to all terminals?



Frank - most of the UK airports that link to Schipol are a bugger to get to locally - try Leeds for example - and you have to allow 45-60 minutes to egtthere

Newquay could be linked to LHR but the demand is just not there - same as Dundee, Sheffield, Doncaster, Teeside etc etc


Maybe, maybe not, depends where one is travelling from. As for "no demand", it is true that new availibility and choice creates new opportunities and new journeys, one reason why new roads fill up with traffic so quickly.

However, slot costs make it uneconomical for small regional aircraft; delays, costs and the inability to do quick turnarounds makes LHR unsuited to no frills carriers; and APD adding £28 to any domestic fare; it won't happen, so we will never know.

[CabinCrewe]

The bus goes to the main bus station

[SWBKCB]

The bus goes to the main bus station

And also drops off at T1, T3 and T5 and picks up at T5

RailAir.com - About RailAir (http://www.railair.com/wheretoboard.php)

Frank - most of the UK airports that link to Schipol are a bugger to get to locally - try Leeds for example - and you have to allow 45-60 minutes to get there

Don't understand this point? are you really saying that most UK airports with a KLM service have poor local access?? :eek:

[Heathrow Harry]

depends where you live but for (say) Newcastle you have to allow 45 minutes at least coming from say South Shields or Whitley Bay - even from the town centre the Metro is 24 minutes and runs every 12 - 15 minutes minutes so you have to allow at least 45 minutes

Leeds Bradford is a complete bugger to get to from C Leeds

Manchester is a train every 10 minutes max and around 20-30 minutes to get there

[Phileas Fogg]

depends where you live but for (say) Newcastle you have to allow 45 minutes at least coming from say South Shields or Whitley Bay - even from the town centre the Metro is 24 minutes and runs every 12 - 15 minutes minutes so you have to allow at least 45 minutes

Leeds Bradford is a complete bugger to get to from C Leeds

Manchester is a train every 10 minutes max and around 20-30 minutes to get there

What? All passengers live in, and travel from/to, the city centre that the airport is named after?

[Heathrow Harry]

no - some live closer and some live further away - but city centre times are the ones that count for most business travelers

[Phileas Fogg]

So, bearing in mind this thread is about Newquay, which city centre, and travelling times, are relevant to Newquay travellers, Truro, Plymouth, Exeter?

[Heathrow Harry]

none - Newquay is a very small town with few people in the immediate area

Truro, Plymouth, Exeter etc all have fast train services and few people use the airport - hence the problem in getting & keeping airlines operating from it

The argument about City Centre travel times was to do with access to places like LHR, Schipol etc etc - ie at the other end of the trip .

Cornwall has a population of just over 536,000 spread over 1400 Sq miles - it's just not enough people to support a public-service airport

[oapilot]

To call the train service from Truro/Plymouth high speed is pushing it a bit, and that's before part of it falls into the sea without hope of replacement in a few years time.
Sadly Cornwall is of no importance to London in the grand scheme of things so the airport is going to have to stand on its own two feet or die. Cornwall CC should ditch it and use the subsidy money on things with a broader benefit to what is a very poor area. The private sector will either make a go of it or shut it.
Bad news for the region and businesses within it, but a harsh reality of the times - its all about location, location, location, and if that doesn't equal maximum return per £ invested then forget it. Social infrastructure for the benefit of all doesn't exist anymore.

[Phileas Fogg]

Cornwall has a population of just over 536,000 spread over 1400 Sq miles - it's just not enough people to support a public-service airport

There is enough people to support a public service airport, just not one the size of the real estate of St. Mawgan airfield.

Regardless of declared dimensions, at 300ft wide, there is more paved surface to NQY's runway than there is to any London airport runway, the place is enormous and it's never going to pay it way ... particularly whilst, quote, "very small town" Newquay actually has two commercial aerodromes.

[fatmanmedia]

one councilor has suggested that it be turned in to a music venue

BBC News - Newquay Airport 'could become a rock concert venue' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-25689238)

Fats

[Heathrow Harry]

more chance of actually making money I suspect

[cornishsimon]

I read it as, as well as the airport, in the ample grounds !



cs

[Wycombe]

What's happened to the proposed ski flights. Are they operating or not?

I ask this as I've seen no evidence of them arriving/departing on the NQY website, and any reference to sales of them on there also seems to have disappeared :-(

[GROUNDHOG]

Greetings from Vancouver Island, Canada

I travelled Falmouth to Heathrow last month in Mr Hertz nice car, it took a little over 4 hours from my driveway to check in. I stepped out of the car at LHR and a nice man loaded my baggage into a little bus and then put it on a trolley at T5 for me. The Skoda Octavia cost me £58 and the fuel was £35 so just £93 for two people and over 80 kgs of baggage...easy as that straight along M5 and M4 motorways....that Ladies and Gentlemen is the competition.

[Tankertrashnav]

To call the train service from Truro/Plymouth high speed is pushing it a bit, and that's before part of it falls into the sea without hope of replacement in a few years time.



Damn right, over 4 hours for the quickest service to London, with stops at every village on the way till you get past Exeter. From experience I think Groundhog was a bit lucky doing Falmouth - Heathrow in just over 4 hours, but its still way faster than rail to Reading and change or Paddington and back. Only time I ever used Newquay was when Ryanair were flying to stanstead and I could catch a connection to Paderborn - as a Cornwall - London service it was a dead loss when you factored in check in times, etc, so even the slow train is preferable!

[GROUNDHOG]

Agree 100% TankerTrashNav, I was lucky and had a good run with absolutely no stops or delays, I would normally allow closer to five hours. As you rightly say the trouble with a flight Newquay to Heathrow is that after driving to NQY, parking,checking in, collecting bags at LHR, probably changing terminals it is going to take over three hours anyway and probably cost a vast amount more.

The fares would have to be very competitive and who would be prepared to offer that?

Relevant to Newquay I just flew Vancouver to Nanaimo, around 15 minutes on an Otter seaplane for a shade over £30, what is the equivalent NQY/ISC rate today..... I suspect a lot more!!

[mikkie4]

RIP OFF BRITAIN,everything is more expensive in this country.....

[cornishsimon]

Don't get me wrong here I would love to see new routes ex NQY as you all know but we all have to appreciate that NQY will never break even based on passenger number.

The way it will turn things around is from other activities which they are in the process of adding too.

Apple Aviation, I think are having a new facility built
Bristow SAR base
AW SAR training base

They need to continue to diversify, attract some cargo/mail flights, MX base, take advantage of the vast amounts of space they have available etc

im fairly certain that they could easily host any sort of concerts on the RAF side of the base without too much problem because of the space they have available.

the odd extra flight will come as the economy picks up, but the airfield is never going to survive on commercial flights alone.


cs

[Phileas Fogg]

Extend 05/23 at Perranporth, install an ILS, PortaKabin a terminal and give St. Mawgan back to MoD (Air) to dispose of at their expense as should have been decided way back.

[Artic Monkey]

A Go-cart track? With St Eval no more than a 5 minute drive away? Who's hair brained idea is that?

[GROUNDHOG]

St Eval is outdoors how about an indoor kart track, ski slope,aqua pool,climbing facility, playzone etc etc not so hair brained is it?

[Fairdealfrank]

Greetings from Vancouver Island, Canada

I travelled Falmouth to Heathrow last month in Mr Hertz nice car, it took a little over 4 hours from my driveway to check in. I stepped out of the car at LHR and a nice man loaded my baggage into a little bus and then put it on a trolley at T5 for me. The Skoda Octavia cost me £58 and the fuel was £35 so just £93 for two people and over 80 kgs of baggage...easy as that straight along M5 and M4 motorways....that Ladies and Gentlemen is the competition.




Agree 100% TankerTrashNav, I was lucky and had a good run with absolutely no stops or delays, I would normally allow closer to five hours. As you rightly say the trouble with a flight Newquay to Heathrow is that after driving to NQY, parking,checking in, collecting bags at LHR, probably changing terminals it is going to take over three hours anyway and probably cost a vast amount more.


You must have been hammering it!

Have done similar from St Ives up the A30/A303/M3, but many years ago, and was definitely caning it. Was young, and, stupidly, it was my own car.

Was this was early morning with light traffic?

No clicking "gatso"s; no unmarked vans clocking your speed; no tugs from "plod", GROUNDHOG, think you were very lucky!

Was it a one-off? because nine times out of ten there is congestion and delays, and for some, stress.


Your point of road v. rail is taken.

BTW, have a great time in Canada.

[GROUNDHOG]

We left at 0800 and met hardly any traffic at all, RAC route planner suggests 269 miles and 4hrs 10minutes, so as I said allow 5! We did 70-80mph all the way non stop but everyone knows rented cars are much faster than your own no matter what you drive!!

[GROUNDHOG]

Kernoworld theme park to rival Disney, much better idea and agree with the man in the tropics, flights to Perranporth. Please send sun PF badly needed here right now!:ok:

[Artic Monkey]

St Eval is outdoors how about an indoor kart track, ski slope,aqua pool,climbing facility, playzone etc etc not so hair brained is it?

Outdoors/Indoors, what's the difference, really? It's an airport, not a theme park. Maybe they should put a helter skelter in the middle of T5 at Heathrow. I think the council are onto something :D

[PAXboy]

Artic MonkeyIt's an airport, not a theme park.I beg to differ.
It's business that is losing money.
If it continues to lose money it will not be anything. Not even an airport.

[Artic Monkey]

Oh but it will, because it's being subsidised by the taxpayer, and has been for many years (as we all know). Should it be a private consortium or the like then I would wholeheartedly agree with you.
It seems quite an odd way to run a business, what area would the "theme park" fall under? CAL? or the council? Would it support the business venture as a whole entity or top up the council's coffers to negate their own subsidies? How many millions need to be invested to get it off the ground? The managing director can maybe make a start by getting to know his staff a little bit better.

[Wycombe]

I notice on the NQY website that they are saying the annual DUS flights will start on 12th April this year - that's much earlier then previous years IIRC?

I asked a previous question about the ski flights to Geneva that should have been operating now if they were going to - I assume these were pulled?

[Keyvon]

New season-long ski-charter flights to Berne (Switzerland) to be operated by Intersky on Saturdays during Winter 2014/15 with an ATR72-600 outfit.

[MARKEYD]

Any idea who the ski company is that is operating this service and when the flights operate ?

[Cyrano]

The press release from Berne Airport is here (http://www.flughafenbern.ch/images/content/presse_2014/Pressemitteilung02-2014.pdf) (in German). Limited information: Intersky will fly to Berne on Saturdays from Newquay, Manston, Prestwick and Bournemouth, using ATR72-600. Flights will go on sale from the middle of next month.

I doubt that an ATR can squeeze in more than two round trips from Berne to the UK in a day (Prestwick-Berne must be more than 3 hours!), so if the schedule is correct, it would appear that Intersky is going to be positioning both of their ATR72-600s to Berne for winter weekend flying.

[compton3bravo]

Pleasant flight on an ATR-72 in the winter from Prestwick to Berne - I don´t think so. Captain comes over the PA after 90 minutes and says hope you are enjoying your flight - we are just passing over Manchester!

[tws123]

Flybe announce they are to operate 3x weekly May to September flights to London-Southend to replace easyJet. BTNews: The Business Travel News (http://www.btnews.co.uk/article/7253)

[Barling Magna]

On the BBC now, so it must be true.....
BBC News - Flybe picks up flights between Newquay and Southend (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-25916438)

[davidjohnson6]

I know it's always better to have a route flown on a regular basis than not at all, but at what point does Newquay become too dependent on Flybe ?

[cornishsimon]

As I said in the flybe thread I think that this is great news, but where's the aircraft coming from ?

BE don't operate any other routes at SEN so that would suggest NQY based or on a W pattern from another base ?

If NQY based surely that would have to be a 2nd based frame ?


cs

[cornishsimon]

NQY no longer has any routes operated by Loganair.

The GLA-NQY has been dropped for 2014


cs

[globetrotter79]

Am guessing we're going to find three of the weekly frequencies will either be chopped from the NQY-BHX route (or reversed to operate on a BHX based aircraft on these days)

[GROUNDHOG]

Some may claim that Southend is indeed a London link and therefore any subsidy to keep a flight going to Gatwick is not necessary. See how it goes over the Summer then if it does attract London traffic you have your answer to an ongoing flight connection to the City ..... a thought not an opinion by the way!

[cornishsimon]

I see that a second flybe E190 is now stored at NQY.

They have plenty of space available so hopefully they are making something out of this type of activity ?


cs

[Bagso]

Do Flybe actively promote flights from the West Country using Manchester as a hub ?

I noticed that they are moving up to 2 a day, so presumably an early morning which should theoretically tie in with Manchester long haul and specifically Thomas Cook charters where there is a tie up.

[alfaman100]

I've used the Manchester "hub" from Exter to Inverness a couple of times. Great service. Unfortunately doesn't work from Newquay; Manchester flights too infrequent.
I've given up with Newquay now. Exeter seems to give me what I need; just a shame I've got an 80 mile trip either side of it :ugh:

[Phileas Fogg]

I see that a second flybe E190 is now stored at NQY.

I've given up with Newquay now

It is a pretty sad state of affairs if an airport needs to go around counting the number of aircraft they have that don't fly!

[cornishsimon]

Not quite the point I was making!

Stored aircraft will provide an income to any airport, NQY has plenty of space and needs the income !


cs

[cornishsimon]

I think it was stated in the flybe thread that the timetable is incorrect and that MAN-NQY will only be 1 daily.

Is this still correct ?


cs

[NickBarnes]

Yes still 1x daily

NQY - MAN 14:45-16:00
MAN - NQY 16:40-17:50

[JC25]

NQY - MAN 14:45-16:00
MAN - NQY 16:40-17:50

Worth noting that those times fit perfectly into the afternoon connection bank at MAN. Flights from ABZ, INV, BHD, IOM, NWI, EDI and GLA (plus SOU & EXT but would be an odd routing) all arrive at around 1600 and depart again a little before 1700.

Let's hope Flybe make some effort to market the connection opportunities.

[Phileas Fogg]

Stored aircraft will provide an income to any airport, NQY has plenty of space and needs the income !



NQY has plenty of salty sea air also!

[Artic Monkey]

Yes but it's not like they're going to be parked up for 5 years or anything. If they were then I could understand the salty atmosphere being an issue.

[tibbs87]

Well now the train lines have been damaged at Dawlish on the main line, with an estimated 6 weeks waiting time, Newquay Airport may well become the next best thing for commuters!

[rog747]

yes tibbs you pipped me on that one - good lord you are in Dorset too!

its being mooted on Twitter for FGW trains to charter some a/c to fly LHR-NQY

who flies what and where v.v the current NQY domestics please?

[cornishsimon]

Only NQY domestics this time of year are :
BE with BA codeshare LGW
BE MAN

And then of course skybus to IOS



cs

[rog747]

thank cornwallsimon

[bigal1941]

Is there now not a case for a PSO for Newquay - London service or even to a suitable hub with both am and pm timings. Looking at the damage to the railway line I suspect 4/6 weeks for the repair is somewhat overoptimistic

[anothertyke]

Must be a better social and political case for that than Dundee!

Anyone know what the total daily rail market size is from Cornwall to London and SE?

[bmaviscount]

Would have thought Newquay Southampton would make a lot of sense fir on site rail links

[cornishsimon]

They put the route on sale a few years ago when they still had the ex BACON aircraft and then cancelled it before it started.


cs

[Heathrow Harry]

In 2011-12 (last year for figures) there were 23.8 million train journeys in/out of the SW area - not broken down any further

[rog747]

my post on Weds nt -
its being mooted on Twitter for FGW trains to charter some a/c to fly LHR-NQY

Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archive (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1402/07.htm)

Flybe Doubles Flights Between Newquay And London Gatwick To Alleviate Cornwall Travel Crisis

[cornishsimon]

Almost as if someone realized that BE had two E190s parked up storred at NQY doing nothing !!


But still, very good news, happy to see this


cs

[rog747]

just hope someone has the sense to lay on some buses to say Truro or st austell for rail connections for PNZ way and back towards PLYM

cornishsimon do you want to wake up western greyhound and first bus lol

[Heathrow Harry]

Will start in 2016 and open in 2021 - spur of the main line ant Langley allowing trains from Reading and apparently Bristol & S Wales direct access

Quite why it wasn't built 10 years ago no-one knows

[Martin the Martian]

Would Newquay-London City be a better route for FGW to charter? Easier to get slots?

[rog747]

London City airport

no martin sorry - flybe pilots are not trained nor are their a/c equipped for the 7 degree steep approach

BA may have had some spare capacity out of there but not sure

[globetrotter79]

If FGW truly wanted to charter aircraft to operate air service for 6 weeks until the trains are (supposedly) going to be back up an running then of course it doesn't have to be flyBe they use.

This time of year it isn't going to be too difficult to find spare aircraft and crew (yes even ones with LCY clearances) to cover that.

Cityflyer - probably not, but I can immediately think of another good 2-3 carriers with LCY-trained crews that would probably be able to provide an aircraft for a 2 or 3 daily service for this period..

[rog747]

it may come to that sure - Dept of Transport asked Flybe to increase the current schedule from LGW...it is a BA codeshare

slots out of LHR would be hard to get even if BA mainline have spare a/c

latest is there are NO rail lines open to Devon as a landslip has now blocked the only remaining SWT trains line at Crewkerne!!
also the A30 road in same area is also blocked lol

can it get any worse? Ash anyone?

[Facelookbovvered]

Perhaps the Government could help out the SW by scrapping APD to/from NQY until such time that people have an alternative means of transport, the whole idea behind APD was meant to be environmental and would save £25 return, just a thought ?

[Phileas Fogg]

Perhaps the Government could help out the SW by scrapping APD

I think the government would frown upon dropping APD when they see NQY Airport ripping the punters off for an "Airport Development Fee".

[rog747]

yes 2 taxes here
the Govt. APD and the NQY council ADF (local fee)

its quite possible that BOTH bodies could temporarily stop both of those fees to get people going again on their journeys and encourage tourists that the SW is #openforbusiness

[davidjohnson6]

If HMRC suspend APD at Newquay, they risk setting some sort of precedent. Are they prepared to do that ?
Suppose that there are minor floods on the rail line near Durham in 2016 - would there be calls to suspend APD at Newcastle to show the North East is open for business ?

How many tourists visit Cornwall in February by train ? Suspect that apart from half term crowd visiting grandparents by car, it's not that many and real impact on tourism is modest. Of course if works are still outstanding by April it's a different story entirely

[rog747]

davidjohnson

in reality this is a state of emergency for the west country - it is hardly minor as you suggest in a comparison

so therefore it is a precedent to enable quick recovery and people to get to down there for their commerce,business's, holidays and relatives by currently the ONLY means of direct public travel to the West apart from national express coaches

plus tourism is not just july and august i can assure you-

i think everyone needs to stop the pontificating and lots of hand wringing and just have a ''yes - we can do this'' attitude
yes??

[Aero Mad]

HMRC must have worked out how much suspending APD on one leg of a return domestic flight in the UK would cost them and save airlines? Flybe rightly points out it penalises the regions (thought they would, it does), and yet probably simply because of the cost to the Treasury. I'd speculate it would be a gain overall? Think of the relative savings on LHR-LBA or LGW-NQY vs the train without £13 on one of the legs. Of course the carrier would absorb some of the saving but with significant coach/train competition (as exists on such routes) I suspect it makes a fairly compelling argument. Not to the Treasury, of course, but...

[rog747]

currently NO trains at all west of Yeovil nor south of Bristol and about a couple of coaches a day by national express into Cornwall from London and the north -

i know FGW are doing what they can - 100's of buses being placed down there for rail replacement and there is a fleet of trapped trains on the west side of Dawlish to operate a service between PNZ - PLYM and newton Abbott - but the signalling has had to be be re-jigged due severance form the EXT control box.
this is not a train set.

this is a logistical challenge for network rail and FGW trains - which are only running to Bristol Parkway then you have to get on a bus to go southwards UFN.

the SWT trains line to EXT from Waterloo is now closed and severed at Crewkerne due a land slide (will beclosed for a week or so)

are we calling this minor?

[Martin the Martian]

I regularly use the trains in Cornwall for work; long distance trains, and particularly those to/from Paddington, pick up and drop off a lot of people burdened with suitcases as they travel through the county, even at this time of year.

Yes, had the seawall at Dawlish crumbled in the last week of school in July, it would be a much bigger catastrophe, but even at this time of year it is not by any stretch of the imagination a minor event. And I cannot see it being repaired within six weeks, so if you were hoping to travel down by train for the Easter hols,then perhaps you ought to be looking at alternatives.

The tourism industry is going to take a big hit over the next couple of months for sure, and even after it is repaired a lot of people who might have come to the south west for a week may well choose to go elsewhere because the area will be perceived as being in ruins. Personally speaking I own a shop in Truro, and though I'm not dependent on tourists, I'm always grateful for the extra revenue they generate, which I factor in to my expectations. Other traders I know are bricking themselves, and with good cause.

Anyway, back on topic...

[davidjohnson6]

Minor point about Crewkerne - line between Waterloo and Exeter is now open again

HMRC absolutely hate the idea of any sort of suspension of tax in any circumstance - mainly because they are terrified that once they make a clear public exception in one place, then people start making claims that taxes should be suspended elsewhere. The only reason HMRC give way, is when a High Court judge tells them to do so - and a big court case will take much longer than the time it takes to repair the line at Dawlish.
For this reason, unless the Chancellor issues an explicit order, I doubt anything is going to happen on APD suspension.

Yes, people in Cornwall are genuinely being given pain, but some of what's being said by politicians is added political spin. Business and day-to-day affairs are being hit hard, but talking about the impact on tourism to an area which emphasies its rural nature in February is less than clear cut.

[rog747]

well said martin

and yes David thankfully Network Rail have fixed up Crewkerne in amazing quick time -
point taken re HMRC and taxes but this is where maybe the Chancellor will step in and show some balls?

The Plymouth fathers and Kernow fathers have long heeded to HM Govt that if their one and only rail line is breached then woe be tide them lol

this is going to be interesting BUT i have seen amazingly quick responses in many aspects so far

[TSR2]

I heard on TV early this morning a government spokesman saying the government has 'Laid on extra flights and larger aircraft' to the affected area's. This was in response to the questions regarding the rail situation.

Does anyone know what he was on about as the interview seemed to be pulled shortly afterwards.

[rog747]

tsr2

Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archive (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1402/07.htm)

[cornishsimon]

I suspect flybe have not sent anything anywhere !

They currently have 2 195s wfu and storred at NQY, any bets that one of these will be used ?


cs

[Artic Monkey]

The E195 isn't actually doing the extra flights. The E195 is doing the current schedule and the current based Q400 is operating the extra flights. Who knows whether it is a current parked 195 or a 195 that is being mothballed. I think that's just semantics.

[cornishsimon]

semantics or some antics ?!!

anyway, does anyone know how bookings are looking with the extra services in place ?


cs

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Would have thought it an ideal time for Flybe to 'press to test' the recently (re)announced Newquay-Southend route; good exposure of the future service to the community, good PR, good links to Central London and less hassle with slots and costs at Gatwick I would have thought.

[Fairdealfrank]

Perhaps the Government could help out the SW by scrapping APD to/from NQY until such time that people have an alternative means of transport, the whole idea behind APD was meant to be environmental and would save £25 return, just a thought ?


Did anyone else see the flock of pigs that flew past on reading this?

Good idea in fact but go one step further and scrap APD entirely or reduce it to a just a few quid on long haul.

Have always said that we need a good domestic air network, in addition to road and rail to provide connectivity (to the world) and choice, but it appears we need it to provide resiliance as well.

[Heathrow Harry]

I've often said here that Newquay not feasible in the long term but fair play to FlyBe to get off their bums and actually do something in the current dreadful situation

[srobarts]

BBC Spotlight has just said the ADF charge has been suspended for two weeks,

[Non Emmett]

My son is heading up to Gatwick from Newquay this week on the Flybe service, travelling on business. He would normally go by train but of course that's not an option for the next few weeks at least. Tourism numbers maybe low at this time of the year but there is still a need to get in to and out of Cornwall on business .


I spent some hours a few weeks ago delayed at Newquay awaiting a flight to St.Mary's on a very stormy day. In this period just one Flybe flight departed yet there seemed to be a never ending stream of staff wandering around all looking very public sector with their bits of paper they mostly seemed to be carting around. As a Cornish community charge payer I tried hard to avoid thinking of the three and a half million pounds or so loss the airport is running up each year and wondered how this look if a private sector operator took over - but who would want it .


We need the airport but on an ongoing basis - can we afford it...........

[GROUNDHOG]

Excellent post non emmett, we returned from Vancouver last week and drove from LHR with a hire car. Two people plus lots of luggage (80kgs plus). Journey time under 5 hours and cost less than £100. Our neighbour who commutes between her home in London and here took the train to Exeter, taxi to Plymouth then train to Truro and another taxi - 10 hours in total

As we have said before, yes the airport is a valuable part of the community but we cannot continue to pour £3 million a year into it as local taxpayers hence its need to diversify which I believe the powers that be are attempting to do.

The loss of the rail line may be a short term boost for Newquay but an election is looming next year and I suspect the Government will announce a new rail line that may be faster and more direct than we have now alongside further road improvements. This will of course take years to do but long term may weaken the case for Newquay Airport even further.

In an ideal World I would like to see one carefully located airport that would replace Newquay, Exeter, Plymouth and even Bristol with proper ground connections enhancing existing and adding new rail lines and roads in the area.

We have made do and mended for too many years, even if such a mega airport was agreed today this would probably not happen in my lifetime but any long term strategy might stop us spending £3million a year in the short term when the site could be more economically run accepting it will always have limited services and developing and adding other on site businesses.

[Martin the Martian]

'In an ideal World I would like to see one carefully located airport that would replace Newquay, Exeter, Plymouth and even Bristol with proper ground connections enhancing existing and adding new rail lines and roads in the area.'


Yeovilton, Merryfield or Dunkeswell, anyone?

[Artic Monkey]

You cannot be serious, surely?

[Phileas Fogg]

Newquay Airport ran fine, and profitably, back in the day when Brymon Airways had the lease of operating it in the day when it was, literally, a couple of oversized portakabins, a car park, a couple of baggage trolleys, a couple of clapped out fuel bowsers "Sweaty Betty" and "Fat Ann" and with everything else owned, operated, and provided for by the UK taxpayer, a.k.a. MoD (Air)

St. Mawgan/Newquay might be comparable to Machrihanish/Campbeltown, difference being that MoD (Air) still own and operate Machrihanish airfield whilst Campbeltown Airport remains pretty much as my description of Newquay Airport back in the day.

Perhaps because MoD (Air) couldn't find a sucker to take over and maintain/operate Machrihanish airfield whereas in Cornwall they found an entire county of suckers who, not necessarily by choice, agreed to taking over maintaining and operating St. Mawgan airfield!

[Yellow Sun]

St. Mawgan/Newquay might be comparable to Machrihanish/Campbeltown, difference being that MoD (Air) still own and operate Machrihanish airfield whilst Campbeltown Airport remains pretty much as my description of Newquay Airport back in the day.

No they don't. (http://forargyll.com/2012/05/minister-at-machrihanish-to-mark-community-buyout-of-former-raf-airbase/)

YS

[Phileas Fogg]

So we don't get the Argyll News here in the middle of the Pacific ... We don't even get landline telephones nor Radio nor Television broadcasts here, all we've had since New Year are a Typhoon, a Tropical Depression and a Tropical Storm ... and lots of rain :)

[Barling Magna]

'In an ideal World I would like to see one carefully located airport that would replace Newquay, Exeter, Plymouth and even Bristol with proper ground connections enhancing existing and adding new rail lines and roads in the area.'


Yeovilton, Merryfield or Dunkeswell, anyone?

Weston Zoyland would be better located than any of those, close to the M5 but with plenty of room for expansion. Still in use for microlights....

But I guess it's under water at the moment...

[Non Emmett]

Many of us down here in the windswept Duchy are very eager for Newquay to succeed and I thought mention of the good old days of Brymon very apt. Let's have a series of ideas - big or small - on possible solutions which will at least help reduce the deficit. We have the helicopter outfit with the S-61 and the Dauphins (name forgotten- it's an age thing !), the Gate Guardians outfit, Apple Aviation seem to be forever on the verge of moving in, the forthcoming SAR detachment with a couple of S-92s is moving closer, Classic Air Force and perhaps one or two others including the Council's solar farm.


Those of you with infinitely more knowledge of such matters than this ole boy point out that flights in to and out of Newquay are never going to be the
complete answer so my question quite simply is this - what can you suggest which will help reduce the deficit. There's been talk of theme park activites which sounds unlikely to me.


I'd like to think something along the lines Apple deal in might be a step in the right direction whilst the current modest number of airline training flights using some of our empty airspace must help to some extent but a loss of ten grand or so each and every day is sobering.


This being pprune, silly ideas get extremely short shrift. Something I have been pondering for a spell is to wonder why Prestwick is so popular with the military whilst Newquay is scarcely used for transatlantic flights yet some time ago in the good ole days of RAF St.Mawgan I recall seeing three USN C-9s there on one occasion en route to St. Johns and seemingly the distance is virtually the same as using Prestwick.


Kernow Bys Vyken

[GROUNDHOG]

Combine civilian flights with RNAS at Culdrose? Might make the residents on the Isles happy? Unless any airport down here has minimal overheads it is never going to pay its way on flights alone.

[Phileas Fogg]

Extend/resurface rwy 05/23 at Newquay's other licensed aerodrome, install some lights and a nav aid or few, construct a modestly sized terminal and car park then develop St Mawgan airfield in to holiday homes, caravan parks, theme park, Disneyland Cornwall or whatever because it's a white elephant that is never going to return a single penny in profit.

[Wycombe]

FR24 says G-FBEI has operated NQY-LGW on the first flight this morning.

Is that one of the 195's that was stored at NQY? (that info might at least settle a previous discussion).

(Apparently the 195 has been put on the existing schedule with the Q400 on the extra flights).

[sxflyer]

Another way of looking at the £3 million 'loss' to the taxpayer is not to see it as a financial loss but as a necessary cost to maintain a vital piece of transport infrastructure.

It would also be useful to understand the extent to which the direct loss is offset by the local economic value the airport generates - how many extra tourists it brought in that wouldn't have come otherwise and their value, extra business generated for local companies etc.

[virginblue]

Extend/resurface rwy 05/23 at Newquay's other licensed aerodrome, install some lights and a nav aid or few, construct a modestly sized terminal and car park

Extend from 3.000 ft ? Given that the days of puddle-jumpers are over, you would need to bulldoze quite a bit of the surroundings to have a runway that could accommodate aircraft that are used for the kind of services we are talking about.

Probably in the long term the only way forward is a intermodal approach with much improved rail connections directly from a single airport gateway for the SW.

[Phileas Fogg]

Extend from 3.000 ft ?

VB,

Never mind declared distances there's already some 4,000ft of hard surface 05/23 runway, there's space for extending, perhaps 1,000ft, off the 05 threshold yet still within the airfield perimeter track and there's probably space for a tad of an extension off the 23 threshold end.

So all in all we could be talking in terms of a runway in excess of 5,000ft so pray tell me what lengths Saab's, Dornier's, ATR's, Dash 8's, BAe146's, CRJ's and Embraer Pocket Rockets require and why quaint little Cornwall should ever feel the need to equip, at taxpayers expense, for larger aircraft types than these?

[cornishsimon]

Seems its not one of the storred aircraft being used !


Interesting points raised Phileas, perran won't ever happen regardless, but NQY will stay.

Agreed however that it won't survive on commercial ops, but there's more to NQY than commercial flights.

Anyone know why the caa stats don't show military flights etc for NQY ?


cs

[Phileas Fogg]

Simon,

You're right, CCC cocked-up big time when the MoD needed to offload St. Mawgan airfield and the MoD certainly found a sucker in CCC.

So, now, to close NQY/St. Mawgan CCC will need to find a sucker of their own so NQY/St. Mawgan is likely to remain in place simply because it's nigh on impossible to sell such a white elephant :)

[cornishsimon]

Exactly

But also what is the economic impact to Cornwall of the airport and the associated businesses ?

Is apple actually coming ?

Is anything else at NQY currently, helimed, bristow coming, caf ?

And again, military flying doesn't show up on caa stats but certainly happens, I really hope that CCC are charging for it now ?


cs

[NorthSouth]

military flying doesn't show up on caa statsWell it does at all other airports, but as we saw a few months ago, for some reason Newquay chooses not to record - or not to send to the CAA - figures for movements of private, aero club, military or virtually any other non-commercial air transport aircraft. Quite strange, I can't imagine why they do that.
NS

[GROUNDHOG]

In the meantime people like Simon, Non Emmett and myself are paying to keep the place going and the council squandering for instance £10 million on a useless master plan. There is a ski slope and winter sports centre planned near Truro so why not build that at the airport, it is where many of the tourists are after all.

Just please CCC do not spend squillions of pounds further trying to develop what is already a perfectly acceptable little terminal and facilities that can easily handle the traffic it has and little chance of getting much more.

[Deano777]

Phileas, I get the distinct impression you actually want the airport to be shut down just so you can say I told you so. I think we need to get over the fact that it's being subsidised and is losing £3m p/a, there's countless posts on here about it but the fact of the matter is that isn't going to change for the time being so we need to get over it and move on. Perranporth is never going to happen, that much is a given.

In other news.

The E195 came in from Belfast yesterday.

Does anyone know when Apple aviation is coming to NQY and what financial impact (in a positive sense) this will have?

[GROUNDHOG]

Assuming you don't live here it is very easy to say get over it when it isn't being payed for from your pocket Deano777. You cant just gloss over the facts and move on, what would you like to do expand the airport terminal further and then we could pay for a 10 million a year loss instead.

I regularly fly from a Canadian airport similar size to Newquay which has a handful of dash 8 flights but it also has an engineering base, a massive RV ( motorhome) dealer, a car hire company store thousands of vehicles there, a boat builder and distributor and so on....several other businesses which seem to range from agricultural machinery to log burning stoves. the airport is entirely self sufficient and that is what Newquay has to become.

[Skipness One Echo]

Something I have been pondering for a spell is to wonder why Prestwick is so popular with the military whilst Newquay is scarcely used for transatlantic flights yet some time ago in the good ole days of RAF St.Mawgan I recall seeing three USN C-9s there on one occasion en route to St. Johns and seemingly the distance is virtually the same as using Prestwick.
PIK was a large military base for the USAF then later the navy moved in with HMS Gannet still on site so there's been an ongoing military presence. What keeps so much heavy military traffic coming through I believe is that there were some very driven people with good contacts who went out to keep the relationship alive and touted for business, like er....a business.

When the local authority get involved with taxpayers money, theres' a lot more process and lot less flexibility. Oh and PIK has a lot of pilots with golfclubs as baggage.

[Deano777]

It's not good to assume, GROUNDHOG. All you need to know is that it is in my direct interest, along with alot of people I know that the airport remains open.

As for paying for it out of your pocket, how does that work then? Does it work in the same way that you are paying for all the idle layabouts that don't work? The same way you're paying for the all the benefit cheats, the £m's of aid given away to foreign countries, the inept way the NHS is run, the list goes on. You're no more paying for it out of your pocket than some guy in Cumbria is paying for it. You're also paying for a myriad of things that this government shouldn't be paying for but you choose to single out the airport. It goes alot deeper than subsidies, this is people's livelihoods and families you are dealing with, and if the airport closes it is those people on the sh** end of the stick that will be affected the most.

Expand the terminal further and create a £10m loss? Where did this little gem come from? The airport terminal is plenty big enough for the flights it handles and is nowhere near at full capacity. To answer your question I'd rather than losses didn't get any bigger and that they do everything they can to mitigate them and grow the business so that people's livelihoods are secure. They can make a start by ensuring the CEO doesn't give himself another massive payrise.

[cornishsimon]

Just curious Deano but where do you live ?


cs

[Deano777]

I've sent you a private message, Simon.

[anothertyke]

Any news on how the loads have been on the first two or three days of the doubled frequency?

[Wycombe]

The doubled frequency only started today AFAIK.

[Deano777]

Numbers are pretty good to be honest. A few days ago they were single figures but they have picked up really, really well.

[GROUNDHOG]

Deano - Why the personal attack, my 'assumption' was more of a rhetorical question, which you feel you could not answer in an open forum, sorry I forgot to put a question mark at the end of it.

Yes you are exactly right that is precisely how it works, for me, for you and for the man in Cumbria, so if I see £3 million a year being spent inefficiently of course I am going to question it? CCC is the elected representative of the Cornish people, voted for by us, my level of Council Tax is set by them and if there is £3m to be spent in a better way so much the better.

Do not try to lecture me on livelihoods please or the responsibility of employees or starting and running companies, I have the T shirt, the sleepless nights etc, thanks.

Why would I want to see Newquay fail? I would love to see three flights a day to Heathrow again and a million people a year flying in and out of the place but we have to be realistic. If I could use it more I would.

Bottom line is that we want the same thing, we both want to protect our interests in having a productive facility but the question to be answered is how to do it?

Re the question about the airport CEO, I am sure he is worth every penny of his salary and bonuses. My question might be, do you really need Christiano Ronaldo as striker for the village football team? Having carried out due diligence on many companies over the years I have yet to meet one that could not make great savings when viewed objectively. I would happily do this at no charge to CCC, just pay the team 10% of the amount we save in the first year - my Mercedes is a couple of years old now so due for a change.

[Deano777]

GROUNDHOG

There was no personal attack? Not that I can see anyway. You said it isn't being paid for out of my pocket, but it actually is just as much my pocket as yours.
Why should I post any of my personal details on here for all and sundry to see?
You do seem to add in extra snippets for me, like lecturing you on starting up & running companies. But how do you know I'm not qualified to comment? Not that I did comment on that. But one thing that is relatively certain, if central government sees a surplus of £3m in CCC's budget should the airport disappear then I would rather suggest that budget would be cut, so CCC wouldn't have it to spend anyway.

As for how to do it, I don't know how to do it, not without access to any accounts/budgets/projections etc etc, but you're right, we both want the same thing and that is for the airport to survive and be a sustainable business, but we both know it's being subsidised by £3m per year, we both know this is not ideal, we both know it's not going change for the foreseeable future.I don't have the answers just the same as you don't, and it's blatantly obvious the incumbent CEO doesn't either. Does that mean it has to close? Does that mean it cannot be made sustainable in the future? Does that mean we all have to give up on it? Not from where I'm sat it doesn't.

[Phileas Fogg]

Phileas, I get the distinct impression you actually want the airport to be shut down just so you can say I told you so.

Deano,

In two of my previous lives I've worked on both sides of the runway at St. Mawgan, circa 1977 I was there in a blue uniform for an exercise "Ocean Safari" and in the 80's I found myself working for Brymon ... So I do have a soft spot for the old place.

Now as for your naive and wrongful assumption that I want the place shut down, sitting here on a tropical beach where I have semi-retired to (check out "Siargao Island" on Goggle Images) I couldn't give a flying fook whether St. Mawgan stays or goes, I'm merely being truthful that the commercial viability of it as a sole civilian airport is a joke and it will NEVER return a single penny of profit.

Saying that I guess the same could have been said for Wideawake Airfield, that it would never return a penny in profit, but that changed during 1982 ... Perhaps St. Mawgan needs a war also to turn a profit :)

[Heathrow Harry]

no-one wants it to close - a lot of us just don't think it will make it without a large subsidy - and the question then is who pays it? The Council have reached the end of their tether I think.

Maybe if people use the service while the trains are out enough of them will be impressed enough to a) keep using it and b) tell their friends

We'll see

[Deano777]

Phileas, lucky you. Have a cocktail on me. $

The question is does it need to be commercially viable so long as CCC control CAL and is ploughing money into it? One thing's for sure if it was a private consortium it would have been sold for real estate a long time ago.

That said I'm glad we're all singing off the same hymn sheet :)

[Phileas Fogg]

Phileas, lucky you. Have a cocktail on me. $


I started at 0730 Wednesday morning, it's now 0045 on Thursday morning, just having a (San Miguel) nightcap as I observe one of my resort guests being half carried back to his room by one of the local girls.

All in a day :)

[GROUNDHOG]

That is a good question Deano.

CCC owns assets and provides services, NQY is an asset so like any other should pay for itself. It could be argued too that it provides an essential service so therefore deserves a subsidy to keep it going. I suggest there is no definitive answer where that balance sits.

It is encouraging that efforts are made to expand business interests, I hope an equal amount of effort is being made in cutting overhead but have less confidence in that area.

[Fairdealfrank]

Many of us down here in the windswept Duchy are very eager for Newquay to succeed and I thought mention of the good old days of Brymon very apt.




Why would I want to see Newquay fail? I would love to see three flights a day to Heathrow again and a million people a year flying in and out of the place but we have to be realistic. If I could use it more I would.


Back in the day, Brymon was running flights up to Heathrow. The small struggling airports need links to LHR. If point to point only was sufficient, any "London" airport would do, but where it clearly isn't, an amount of transfer traffic can make the difference, hence the need for links to LHR.

A classic example is Teesside, once the BD link to Heathrow was lost, the airport went into terminal decline.

Clearly none of this will happen if and until the Heathrow rwy situation is sorted and a sensible level of airport charges for small aircraft on thin routes is agreed.

Probably not going to happen in most of our lifetimes.

[Phileas Fogg]

Here you go Deano,

Get your millimetre ruler out on this one to realise the 05/23 tarmac length Perranporth already has and what extension, between the 05 threshold and the disused perimiter track is feasible and, as I suggested, I think there's room for a tad of an extension of the 23 threshold end also.

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-5823088D975E2AE904059C43606DD4DE/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGTP_2-1_en_2013-04-04.pdf

[rog747]

we at BMA handed over and handled the LHR-NQY route and the HP Herald to Brymon to op the services - they did OK afaik
got a Dash 7 on eventually.
2/3 flights a day i think. 50 seats

plus they did PLYM from LGW with the Twotter and from LHR at times too

and at BMA Tees side was our flagship route for many years on domestics
5 rotations a day

also i publicly am giving myself a small pat on the back -
Last Weds night when Dawlish was destroyed i tweeted BA and FGW and Dept of Transport to say good idea to charter some a/c for the NQY route and lay on some buses to ensure connection - lo and behold DoT asked Flybe to double their LGW schedules the next day - and Western Greyhound local buses will lay on more buses from NQY airport.

Sunday i tweeted to Cornwall council, the Chancellor, NQY airport and #openforbusiness suggesting APD and NQY development fee be waived temporarily during the rail crisis - lo and behold they all agreed the next day -
i got a thank you tweet from the Cornwall chamber of commerce chairman

it may not have been all me they listened to but i passionately felt that someone should do something during this awful time for the West Country

[MADTASS]

rog747 (http://www.pprune.org/members/221422-rog747)

Any Chance of you getting on that Old Tweet Button and Tweeting us a Pay Rise at Newquay. :{:{

[GROUNDHOG]

Well done rog747!:D

You youngsters I don't know, those recent times of Brymon and BMA, well recent to my time at Westward anyway. Must go Nurse is coming to put me to bed soon.:eek:

[rog747]

aaah westward peter de savoury ?

[Phileas Fogg]

Ah Yes,

The old LHR services, one I shall never forget was when I watched G-BRYB, with all four engines running, taxi into the PLH terminal building.

The Chief Pilot complimented my boss regarding how calm I had sounded when I telephoned him to report the "crash" ... I sounded calm because I couldn't believe what I had just witnessed :)

And one LHR lunchtime Twotter, fully loaded when one engine disintegrated, "Mayday, Mayday, Mayday" in to RAF Odiham!

We even operated a few Twotters in/out of Fairoaks ... WRB lived in Weybridge.

[GROUNDHOG]

Nearly rog747, it was actually Peter Cadbury, he passed away in 2006. Chief pilot was Capt Ben Prowse, John Howard Evans was the other senior pilot, he then became chief pilot for Brymon. He was also founder of Air Wales 1 & 2 and now author of the book "Only angels have wings", a really good read. The airline was based at 6A Morfa Hall, Newquay. I still have somewhere an old blank ticket stock, now 45 years of age, think I will fill one in and pop down to Westward Airways (Lands End) and see if they will accept it!!

As posted earlier progress is a funny thing, in 1969, NQY had three flights a day to LHR, 45 years later it has none!!:ok:

[rog747]

thanks g-hog cheers for the memories

[cornishsimon]

Just curious, does anyone have any hints on the loads currently on NQY-LGW-NQY.

I see in the press that the train line repairs are going to take longer due the most recent storms.



cs

[Bagso]

Not sure on Lgw but Manchester pax are high !

[Bagso]

Not sure on low but MAN is high...

[GROUNDHOG]

Question?
Of the three routes I have flown recently none are available from LGW but all are from LHR. One I fly regularly and I always hire a car and dump it at LHR, but I would fly if I could. I wonder what proportion of travellers from NQY are not flying on a London air service to connect because it is to LGW and they are flying from LHR?

Please no lessons on why using LHR is virtually impossible, we all know that, this is a question of balance between the two London hubs. If the Duchy wants Government intervention to maintain a London link would it be better to LHR not LGW?.

PS straight question no drift into fairoaks, biggin hill etc thanks!!

[cornishsimon]

Exactly groundhog

You drive to LHR for longhaul flights.

Many take the train to reading or paddington to get to LHR.

If a major player offered a PSO route it would be well utilized for onward and outward connections to and from Cornwall.

Now the dominant alliance at LHR is one world and the most logical carrier to operate a PSO on LHR-NQY for connections would be BA.


cs

[davidjohnson6]

If a major player offered a PSO route

A PSO from Cornwall to Heathrow would require Govt putting up a lot of money to gain bids from airlines with flights at useful times. Question is - who's paying ?

[Fairdealfrank]

Question?
Of the three routes I have flown recently none are available from LGW but all are from LHR. One I fly regularly and I always hire a car and dump it at LHR, but I would fly if I could. I wonder what proportion of travellers from NQY are not flying on a London air service to connect because it is to LGW and they are flying from LHR?

Please no lessons on why using LHR is virtually impossible, we all know that, this is a question of balance between the two London hubs. If the Duchy wants Government intervention to maintain a London link would it be better to LHR not LGW?.

PS straight question no drift into fairoaks, biggin hill etc thanks!!



Quite right GROUNDHOG, it's common sense. If public money is being spent, try and spend it well! Clearly, PSO flights from NQY (or DND for that matter) should be to LHR to take advantage of commuters and transfer pax. Regretably, it ain't going to happen for the forseeable.



Exactly groundhog

You drive to LHR for longhaul flights.

Many take the train to reading or paddington to get to LHR.


the train is problematic, there is a need to hump bags around Reading station then jump on a bus, then hump bags to required terminal. A flight from NQY on the other hand cuts all that out.




If a major player offered a PSO route it would be well utilized for onward and outward connections to and from Cornwall.


Indeed it would, cornishsimon!


Now the dominant alliance at LHR is one world and the most logical carrier to operate a PSO on LHR-NQY for connections would be BA.


BA don't have small enough aircraft (unless it's Cityflyer), BE are part-owned by BA, so might BE be a candidate to operate such a route?

[Cloud1]

BE to keep the E195 doing the NQY-LGW twice daily thoughout March even though the additional 'train-relief' services cease

[Bagso]

Some of the ticketing portals are also really odd

Eg Newquay - say Dubai, a logical destination for connections.

Instaed of picking up one of three EK daily ex LGW (OR indeed flying to Manchester and doing likewise which I would prefer as they have a 380), the sites punt you in on BA via LHR ?

Its mad.

Fly to LGW...change of airport, not sure how that is achieved and then a BA flight from LHR !

A small matter of a 20hr connection in most cases !

[cornishsimon]

NQY is a destination on the Ek website.

If you try NQY-DXB it will route you through MAN, LGW or even BHX or EDI.



cs

[GROUNDHOG]

What may be a big influence is there is an election next year, Cornwall is very strong for the Lib Dems and must be a prime target for Dave and the boys as sure as hell Ed and Nige will not be getting in down here. On the basis no matter what colour your party pretty much anything is available if it gets votes it makes you wonder. If money is to be thrown at Gatwick why not Heathrow and BA would of course be the ideal carrier.

On the basis that more than twice as many passengers travel through Heathrow than Gatwick surely the demand increases?

If Dave is throwing my cash at a PSO for NQY, please Mr Prime Minister will you throw it at Heathrow not Gatwick.

[davidjohnson6]

If money is to be thrown at a PSO route from London to Newquay, then Govt has to offer a sufficiently high subsidy for airlines to be willing to bid to operate the PSO route.

Heathrow has 2 additional costs over Gatwick:
1 - Higher airport charges - go look at the conditions of use documents for Heathrow and Gatwick to compare
2 - A NQY route at plausible times would mean an existing set of flights at the relevant London airport would have to be dropped. A double daily from Heathrow to (for example) Vienna brings in much more revenue than it does from Gatwick. BA would switch the slots to a Newquay route *only* if Govt offered to subsidise at least the difference in revenue between a Vienna route and a Newquay route.

Relatively modest Govt subsidy will get you a PSO route to Gatwick. A PSO route to Heathrow will cost huge amounts of subsidy.

Who's paying for the PSO route, and will they accept the extra costs for Heathrow compared to Gatwick ?

[Skipness One Echo]

If a major player offered a PSO route it would be well utilized for onward and outward connections to and from Cornwall.
conrnishsimon as we both know, there is no real possibility that BA will fly you to LHR before Hell freezes over. NQY was brought into commercial use on the back of a bubble. Which burst.
It's not RAF St Mawgan anymore with the MOD picking up the bill. Air Southwest have gone away, flybe remain only on a taxpayer subsidy and the operating costs of such an enormous airfield for such a tiny proportion of flights is only ever going to increase losses.
How much would we have to pay BA so that rather than operate an off peak to Europe, they should nip across to Cornwall in wintertime? The market won't support it, it's simply not there in real volume and yield. Newquay is highly seasonal and geared towards tourism, I flew the Ryanair Stansted which did OK but was unsustainable, flybe have found the same at Gatwick. Not enough people paying enough money to make it viable.
All of the comparisons with days past are interesting but they're from a time when you could book GLA-EDI on an Air UK 146 or LHR-BHX/EMA on a British Midland ATP. Those days are never coming back, ever. Is there any airport in the short haul network BA serve even close to a market this small? BA couldn't make a thrice daily Dash 8 work, then they failed with a daily B737 on leisure, in summer! How big is the NQY-LHR-JFK market these days?
What's the ROI on said LHR slot? Does anyone really think there's a business case here to do this? It would have to be an A319 as BA are not allowed to fly anything Brazilian out of LHR and LGW. A twice daily A319 offers more seats than the entire current throughput of Newquay Airport.

Eg Newquay - say Dubai, a logical destination for connections.Genuine question, how many people do this route per year?

[cornishsimon]

Oh skipness I do love the tone of your posts !

Anyone would think that your opinion on the world of aviation is spot on and everyone else's isn't !

As we're being blunt and rude and out of order to each other, have you actually read the post to which I, a simple humble Cornishman with clearly no right to teansport links was replying ?

No, I didn't think so !

Perhaps you should and while your at it take some chill pills and learn some manors.


cs

[GROUNDHOG]

Totally agree there isn't a business case for NQY/LHR. As things stand there isn't for NQY/LGW either. The purpose of an expensive airport at NQY to serve passenger flights to even fewer destinations is therefore...... ?

[Cloud1]

Judging by the increase in marketing on the NQY-LGW and the large increase in loads I would suggest there is a reasonable business case for the continuation of a LGW route. Let's not forget the reason they were initially to be pulled was because of LGW landing fees not the number of passengers using it.

I think it has made people realise there is too much reliance on train services to London which are not that great at the best of times.

[Fairdealfrank]

What may be a big influence is there is an election next year, Cornwall is very strong for the Lib Dems and must be a prime target for Dave and the boys as sure as hell Ed and Nige will not be getting in down here. On the basis no matter what colour your party pretty much anything is available if it gets votes it makes you wonder. If money is to be thrown at Gatwick why not Heathrow and BA would of course be the ideal carrier.


Nige will most definitely be down there, Cornwall has a fishing industry that's hampered by EU rules, it's also likely that many in Cornwall feel neglected by the metropolitan elite.

Also with the Libdems no longer a home for protesting or hacked off voters, it could be rich(ish) pickings for UKIP.

That's not to say that UKIP will necessarily win any seats there, but their level of support could see some aeats change hands.


On the basis that more than twice as many passengers travel through Heathrow than Gatwick surely the demand increases?

If Dave is throwing my cash at a PSO for NQY, please Mr Prime Minister will you throw it at Heathrow not Gatwick.


Would love to see it too, as stated in a previous post: "Regretably, it ain't going to happen for the forseeable."

[Skipness One Echo]

Oh skipness I do love the tone of your posts !
Anyone would think that your opinion on the world of aviation is spot on and everyone else's isn't !
As we're being blunt and rude and out of order to each other, have you actually read the post to which I, a simple humble Cornishman with clearly no right to teansport links was replying ?
No, I didn't think so !
Perhaps you should and while your at it take some chill pills and learn some manors.
cs
I did read it, and I gave an opinion without being rude about you or personal in any way shape or form. You *do* have a recurring theme of wishing British Airways flew to your local airport / house, which is fine but likewise I am perfectly entitled to point out why, in my view that's unrealistic on any commercial level. It's not about "rights" so stop playing the hard done by card please. I think that your often expressed with for BA to serve LHR-NQY is, incredibly unlikely, and I gave you some reasons of precedent why. I did not chap your door and run, 'cos *that* would have been rude, this is just debate so please stop taking it to heart.
Groundhog is right, remember the Green Brigade will be demanding more trains not planes. One upside might finally be improvements to rail services to the West Country from London. If DND-STN gets a PSO, I would imagine NQY-LGW would be a good bet.

[cornishsimon]

Pretty much the same as your close NQY down, you live in Cornwall it's your tough luck, you don't deserve transport links opinion ey ?

You keep banging your drum and ill keep banging mine.

However, you did not read the OP that was being replied too.


cs

[Skipness One Echo]

Simon if it's losing so much money then at some point you have to ask what's the point? I am from Scotland so know well how remote transport links are crucial but there needs to be a sound realism and sensible commercial footing, of which NQY under CCC has neither. I have nothing against Cornwall, I just express the obvious sentiment that if you want the world to come and see you, then living somewhere less remote tends to help, and a LHR slot is not a right, it has to have some ROI.
No one said it's about "deserving", but you won't get your ideal as the market won't support your ideal twice daily BA A319 as your airport carries some 33% less traffic than Humberside. Some realism please?

[davidjohnson6]

It's worth noting from the CAA Dec 2013 provisional stats:
Newquay - 175,147 passengers
Inverness - 604,098 passengers
Jersey - 1,433,809 passengers

Jersey airport gets over 8 times the passengers of Newquay. With all the offshore finance, it presumably also has a lot of accountants, bankers, lawyers and wealthy people travelling to/from the island. The Jersey-Zurich route presumably exists for this reason.
Of course, Jersey being an island is even more reliant on air transport than Newquay. However, while BA are happy to run a Gatwick-Jersey route, they seem to show no intention of running a Heathrow-Jersey route.

Inverness is even more remote than Newquay from London. A train to Edinburgh takes 3h30. BA don't serve Inverness from London at all - it will become reliant entirely on Easyjet for a London air connection in 6 weeks time.

If Newquay is to have a Heathrow route, there needs to be a very good reason for this to exist. If Newquay wants to use PSO cash, it becomes even harder to make a case for a Heathrow-Newquay route.

[tibbs87]

Cornish Simon -

I am no aviation professional, common sense would show that as the load factors are declining for the 'low cost carriers' at Newquay, what makes you think British Airways will pick up a route to Newquay, because at the moment if there is any chance of Newquay having a service to London it will depend on the cost (Bearing in mind B.A. is a full service airline = higher fares + ADF). Not to mention the limited slot availabilities at Heathrow itself, where B.A have more favourable, money making routes.

At the end of the day it's a tough old business, if a route won't work for one or two airlines there is a low chance of it working for others, no matter how big or small. Also PSO's are only put in place if there is a satisfactory level of usage by the public, unless you get some silly MP spending out on another 'Rolls-Royce' project.

The only possibility of seeing a regular service from Newquay to London will be when people have more wonga in their back pocket, when the economy actually goes into full swing again, at the moment it is pretty stagnant out there :sad:

[GROUNDHOG]

I think you will find the original question was IF there was a subsidised route to Cornwall would it not be better to have it to LHR not LGW since twice as many people use that airport. In Simon's defence he WAS answering the original question and as he lives here I suggest he knows the scene and has never claimed to know the solution. We all have a view on what we would like to see but let us all agree once and for all what we could see?

If anyone doesn't agree with any of the following, shout now..

There are no slots at LHR or LGW
A LHR service is not viable on cost
A LGW service is still unlikley to be viable on cost
Any link needs frequency, twice daily is not enough
There are not enough passengers to fill anything over 50 seats with frequency
There is nowhere else to land adjacent to LHR or LGW at this time

Am I right so far?

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

There are no slots at LHR or LGW - Agreed
A LHR service is not viable on cost - Agreed
A LGW service is still unlikley to be viable on cost - Agreed
Any link needs frequency, twice daily is not enough - Hmm - 'half a loaf is better than no bread' mean anything?
There are not enough passengers to fill anything over 50 seats with frequency - Agreed; therefore Dash 8-300 would seem to fit the bill
There is nowhere else to land adjacent to LHR or LGW at this time - Shout! What about Southend? OK, its on the 'other side' but train links into The City are as good as (if not better than) LHR, LGW, STN and LTN. No slot issues, plenty of capacity, airport management wanting (at a guess) to consolidate their growth position; great modern facilities now (new terminal extension open only last week). And Flybe are going be running that route in the summer; they operate Dash 8-300s. So how about picking up the ball out of the scrum NOW and running with it?

[cornishsimon]

Flybe only operate the DH8-Q400, E175 & E195

Not the DH8-300


cs

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

I accede to Cornish Simon's more local knowledge but that's not what it said on a couple of websites I checked before posting (I had doubts myself!). Never trust the Internet!

[Jes]

demur

verb (used without object), de·murred, de·mur·ring.
1.
to make objection, especially on the grounds of scruples; take exception; object: They wanted to make him the treasurer, but he demurred.
2.
Law. to interpose a demurrer.
3.
Archaic. to linger; hesitate.

[Fairdealfrank]

The only possibility of seeing a regular service from Newquay to London will be when people have more wonga in their back pocket, when the economy actually goes into full swing again, at the moment it is pretty stagnant out there


.....or LHR gets more rwy capacity, but hell is likely to freeze over first.



I think you will find the original question was IF there was a subsidised route to Cornwall would it not be better to have it to LHR not LGW since twice as many people use that airport. In Simon's defence he WAS answering the original question and as he lives here I suggest he knows the scene and has never claimed to know the solution. We all have a view on what we would like to see but let us all agree once and for all what we could see?



Obviously that is the case, Simon is correct, but it would not be BA mainline, it does not have small enough aircraft. For BA to be involved, it would have to be a smaller outfit operating "on behalf of" BA, a franchise operation, a collabaration with another carrier or a code share arrangement.

But this is all academic, it ain't happening, a shame as it could be good for the likes of BE or BD regional. A NQY-LHR PSO would open the floodgates for other thin routes and get a bandwagon going: INV, DND (instead of STN), MME, IOM, BLK, JER, GCI... the list could be endless. On the other hand, politicians love bandwagon-jumping, so who knows.




There are no slots at LHR or LGW - Agreed
A LHR service is not viable on cost - Agreed
A LGW service is still unlikley to be viable on cost - Agreed
Any link needs frequency, twice daily is not enough - Hmm - 'half a loaf is better than no bread' mean anything?
There are not enough passengers to fill anything over 50 seats with frequency - Agreed; therefore Dash 8-300 would seem to fit the bill
There is nowhere else to land adjacent to LHR or LGW at this time -


Yes, it does. If the London airport was LHR, it would be needed for connecting flights. Increased frequency clearly means smaller aircraft.


Shout! What about Southend? OK, its on the 'other side' but train links into The City are as good as (if not better than) LHR, LGW, STN and LTN. No slot issues, plenty of capacity, airport management wanting (at a guess) to consolidate their growth position; great modern facilities now (new terminal extension open only last week). And Flybe are going be running that route in the summer; they operate Dash 8-300s. So how about picking up the ball out of the scrum NOW and running with it?


At LGW, or SEN for that matter, a minimum of twice daily is neccessary to allow for day trips that fits in with business needs. Are you suggesting BE and SEN all year?

[GROUNDHOG]

So far no solutions then apart from SEN...

As I understand it the connection to Liverpool St is an hour, so just about plausable for City traffic. To LHR or LGW it is somewhere close to twice that which isn't much use really, factor in check in times, flight time, bag collection, transfer then it is not much different to catching the train or driving but a lot more messing about.

Who will use SEN, business to London on a good day, people wanting to go to anywhere remotely close to SEN. Holidaymakers for the short season, hen and stag parties - or just parties- surfing hardly anyone, they arrive by car with a tent or sleep in the VW transporter etc.

SEN as hub? Then it must be promoted, without this thread I would never have known or thought you could fly NQY/ VCE via SEN and would have driven to LHR to do that?

Back in the late 90's Cardiff Airport published a timetable showing possible connections through other airports, they may still do it, I have never seen this from Newquay and it would be so simple and cheap to do on the website?

[cornishsimon]

Surely if you rule out LHR & LGW as connecting hubs ex NQY you are left with the next logical option which would be MAN ?

That doesn't solve the London market but does offer decent worldwide connections ?

Flybe offer connections at MAN and Ek now offer NQY as a destination via several places including MAN, also BHX, LGW and EDI.

Would it be logical for BE, if previous posts are correct and the loads on the Manchester are good to go double daily and offer better connections ?


cs

[Capetonian]

I wish I could remember where I read it, but within the last few days I read an article about a tea plantation in Cornwall (Tregowan?) which is exporting to the Far East and someone reckoned that the volumes may justify air services from NQY to the Far East.

That tea must be magic!

(I'll try to find or remember where I read that article)

[davidjohnson6]

Tregothnan

[cornishsimon]

Seriously ?
Come on I love Cornwall and NQY and bang the drum every chance I get but NQY- Far East ? Are we talking passenger direct or via somewhere or freight ?


cs

[GROUNDHOG]

Tregothnan is not far from where I live and has been producing tea for some time, maybe your informant has been putting something in the tea before drinking it - whatever it was put me down for a pint!:D

( just re read this post there are a lot of people would be willing to put me down for a pint ....or some for nothing!)

[Heathrow Harry]

they do tours but they aren't cheap...........

[Capetonian]

One of my favourite teashops in Chester serves Tregothnan tea. It's expensive and for my taste, not particularly enjoyable.

[Bye]

the new EC rules on state aid come into force next month, its gonna be interesting to see how it pans out, Certain media reckon 80 airports will close as a result.

• Operating aid to regional airports (with less than three million passengers per year) will be allowed for a transitional period of ten years under certain conditions, in order to give airports time to adjust their business model. To receive operating aid, airports need to work out a business plan paving the way towards full coverage of operating costs at the end of the transitional period.

• State aid for investment in airport infrastructure is allowed if there is a genuine transport need and the public support is necessary to ensure the accessibility of a region.

GB

[cornishsimon]

Any hint of anything from NQY, BE etc for the LGW route ? Doesn't the increased flying and 0 APD finish tomorrow ?


cs

[srobarts]

I guess it will leave a hole if they don't carry it on. My wife flew there and back on Tuesday taking the second flight to Gatwick and back on the penultimate one. She said both the early flights were fairly full and mentions from fellow passengers that it was so much more convenient than the train.
Smart move would be to carry on the extra flights for as long as the demand is there. There could be quite a few converts to flying rather than 5 hours on the train.
Might help to market them a bit too. Not seen much promotion of the extra flights.

[Wycombe]

Not seen much promotion of the extra flights.

Its been all over the news media, to a national level (as part of the coverage around the Dawlish rail closure) and I even heard it mentioned in the House of Commons (during PMQ's I think), so I would say there has been quite a bit of coverage.

Bearing in mind that it'll probably be another month at least before Dawlish is re-opened, you have to think that BE will keep the extra flights going if it makes sense financially. It's a good PR opportunity aswell.

[davidjohnson6]

The Flybe website allows one to book any of 6 flights on LGW-NQY on Fri 28 February. Next week, the website is offering bookings for just 3 flights per day. If those extra flights are going to continue beyond tomorrow, Flybe need to get them on sale very quickly.

[Skipness One Echo]

he said both the early flights were fairly full
So not full even with no railway connection at all????

[srobarts]

So not full she said she couldn't see any empty seats on her flights but couldn't be sure about earlier flight as she saw them boarding but could judge numbers. She overheard someone saying the earlier flight was chokka. Apologies, skipness, 'fairly' was too loose a word to use!

so I would say there has been quite a bit of coverage coverage yes, promotion not that I have seen. My wife took some persuading to look at the flight prices and was prepared to drive to our daughters and then take the train until she saw the fare on flybe website. There is a golden opportunity to persuade travellers that flying is not only quicker but for many cheaper too.

[MerchantVenturer]

Newquay Airport weeks away from tendering Gatwick route to bidders | This is Cornwall (http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/Newquay-Airport-weeks-away-tendering-Gatwick/story-20781858-detail/story.html#axzz2vTKknhck)

According to this newspaper report the tendering process will begin within the next few weeks.

The NQY MD anticipates bids from “at least” eight UK and European operators.

[devonish]

I don't know why the other airlines are bothering, i bet it is a stitch up between the airport and flybe, hence flybe carrying on the route until the pso kicks in

[wallp]

Realistically, who else is likely to bid for the route?

[cornishsimon]

If we are to believe the article and the comments from big Al who do we suggest are the 8 airlines hinted at ?





cs

[Cloud1]

Any route that is subsidised will be attractive for airlines as they don't really lose out on it. It's win win for them

So the 8 could be any of the following based on aircraft size:

Flybe
Loganair
Bmi
Eastern
Aer Lingus Regional / Aer Arran
Easyjet
CityJet - they have now ventured to CWL with the F50

Plenty of others but realistically I am struggling to pick an 8th candidate for LGW. If it had been any London airport would have said BA CityFlyer

[cornishsimon]

Certainly looks like its being set up for flybe.

If the venture on NQY-BHX pays its way surely there would be sufficient routes to base a DH8 or two at NQY to run alongside th PSO LGW route.

I hear that NQY-MAN is carrying decent loads which will be a helpful addition to a based aircraft operating the PSO route.


cs

[adfly]

BA might look at it if the subsidy was generous enough, and if they got a reasonable number of people connecting onto the rest of their LGW network.

[Wycombe]

I hear that NQY-MAN is carrying decent loads which will be a helpful addition to a based aircraft operating the PSO route.

The Flybe online timetable appears to have been updated, and shows a second (earlier) MAN-NQY-MAN flight on Saturdays starting 24th May, until 13th Sept.

FLT NO DEP ARR DAYS STOP A/C CHANGE DATES
Manchester
Newquay
BE351 11:05 12:15 . . . . . Sa . 24-May-14 - 13-Sep-14
BE353 12:40 13:55 M . W . F . . 07-Mar-14 - 28-Mar-14
BE353 16:35 17:50 . . . . . . Su 09-Mar-14 - 23-Mar-14
BE355 16:40 17:50 M T W T F Sa Su 30-Mar-14 - 25-Oct-14

FLT NO DEP ARR DAYS STOP A/C CHANGE DATES
Newquay
Manchester
BE352 10:55 12:15 M . W . F . . 07-Mar-14 - 28-Mar-14
BE352 12:40 13:55 . . . . . Sa . 24-May-14 - 13-Sep-14
BE354 14:45 16:00 M T W T F Sa Su 30-Mar-14 - 25-Oct-14
BE352 14:50 16:10 . . . . . . Su 09-Mar-14 - 23-Mar-14

It looks like it operates from the MAN end (the daily BE354/355 operates the other way around).

[cornishsimon]

Well the increase on NQY-MAN is certainly welcome and proves the point iv made a few times, most recently yesterday !

Its strange to have the two NQY departures so close together but perhaps for 2015 we might well see a decent double daily schedule with morning and afternoon departures, There certainly does seem to be a good market for NQY-MAN.

Its also good to see that if booking via EK you will be routed via MAN on the A380 via a BE flight, also LGW onto the various EK departures, BHX, EDI etc !

However on another point, looks like the BE EDI-NQY is now down to once weekly on a Saturday which is quite a reduction on previous years where it was at one stage either 4 or 5 weekly ?


cs

[alfaman100]

Flew NQY-MAN on 5 March and returned on 7 March. There were only a few empty seats on the EMB 195 - on both flights! Not sure how much of that was due to the train situation, but its got to be seen as a positive. Long may it continue (and grow!):D

[cornishsimon]

The train situation can only be seen as positive for NQY in general as no doubt it will raise awareness of the airport and the routes offered.

You have to wonder how many punters who would normally take the train will now return to use the airport in future ?

NQY-MAN was always a decent sized market for Air Southwest and seems BE are now starting to see this, for example:

December 2013 the route had 1778 passengers compared to 1578 in December 2012.

Provisional for Jan 2014 shows 1739 against 1215 for 2013, not bad at all considering the route only operates 4 weekly during the winter schedule !

Obviously I have no idea on the yield but the loads certainly seem to be heading in the right direction on this route !


cs

[cornishsimon]

Other threads currently suggesting that BE have slots to operate various routes including NQY into LCY from September ?!


cs

[cornishsimon]

Has BE gone back to the DH8 on the NQY-LGW shuttle route ?
FR24 suggests that its being operated today by G-JECL and not the E195 ?


cs

[Cloud1]

Yep the jet was only temporary and has been replaced by the dash as of yesterday

[cornishsimon]

Yeah didn't know the date that the switch back was due to take place !

Thanks for the info.

How have loads been at NQY on the Manchester ? I'm guessing good as its getting an extra Saturday rotation ?


cs

[cornishsimon]

I see that apple aviation have taken delivery of the first aircraft due to be parted out @ NQY.

DC-10-30CF
T255 arrived this morning


cs

[MADTASS]

And here She is, hope this works.
Have had to Resize the Pictures as they were a Bit on the Large Side, but you get the General Idea.

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n602/madtass/e28bc0bc-ff0e-4da2-a854-05f96a6281c0.jpg (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/madtass/media/e28bc0bc-ff0e-4da2-a854-05f96a6281c0.jpg.html)

http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n602/madtass/c0cd942e-82c4-4d5d-b522-23fcedec3eee.jpg (http://s1142.photobucket.com/user/madtass/media/c0cd942e-82c4-4d5d-b522-23fcedec3eee.jpg.html)

[cornishsimon]

Interesting to see the provisional stats for Feb 2014 for the NQY routes.

Knowing that the rail line was down I wonder how many of the punters will stay with air instead of rail.

NQY-LGW 11516 V 5658 in Feb 13
NQY-MAN 1804 V 1477 in Feb 13

Also IOS was up to 2918 V 1177, that's nothing to do with rail but LEQ was closed due to flooded runway !

All told surely it proves demand is there for NQY-LON ? I do however hope that those that switched will keep to air and help to make the London route viable.

Also worth noting that the NQY-MAN was only operating 4 weekly during Feb which is also very encouraging.


cs

[Heathrow Harry]

there is a demand for travelling London - Cornwall in both directions

how it is filled (air/train/car/bus) depends on price/availability/publicity

I'd expect some of the "new" air passengers to stick if they think they got a decent deal - but it has to be enough to keep a decent air service available

[cornishsimon]

Just noticed on FR24 for MAN that NQY-MAN services now carry an EY codeshare.

That's got to be a good sign ?


cs

[davidjohnson6]

Certainly not a bad thing, but it seems unlikely to be hugely successful in terms of passenger numbers.

On the assumption that people flying from Manchester to Abu Dhabi are predominantly using AUH as a transit point, passengers from Newquay would have to go through at least 2 transit airports to reach their destination in Asia, along with associated lost time with change of aircraft at each transit point.

Additional codeshares usually boost passenger numbers, but how many people are really going to be taking up this option ?

[Curious Pax]

If we're talking flying from Cornwall to Asia then surely it is 2 stops whichever way you cut it (unless you mean NQY-MAN-HKG after Dec 8th?). Alternative is of course road/rail to LHR for a direct flight (depending on destination). Having said that you are probably right in suggesting that there won't be many per flight, but every little counts as they say.

[cornishsimon]

Oh don't worry I know that there will only be a handful of people per year that use the EY codeshare into NQY via MAN but the point is that NQY is now an available destination on the EY website and is bookable by anyone or any travel agent. That cant be a bad thing !


Shame that they don't also offer AF codeshare on the BE NQY flights same as they do with other BE routes ex MAN.


NQY is also now available via the EK website who will offer connections on BE coded flights via the EK stations at BHX, MAN, EDI, LGW etc.


None of this isn't going to sustain NQY but being available on airline websites and via travel agents world wide cant be a bad thing !




cs

[cornishsimon]

Looks like NQY-MAN will remain daily on a NQY based aircraft at least as far as the schedule goes for the coming winter, so far the schedule goes as far as 5th jan 15.


cs