BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)

[MrBrightside]

Any truth behind the BACF LCY-BHD rumours?

Would be interesting given Jersey monopoly on the route.

[stab3.5up]

Heard they thinking of basing a saab 2000 at bhd with upgrade to jet when four established

[mart901]

Belfast City Airport's profits climb 40% to £3.3m as costs cut - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/belfast-city-airports-profits-climb-40-to-33m-as-costs-cut-35103485.html)

[aergirl]

So are Aer Lingus trying to sabotage their operation, from 30th October the first Heathrow flight doesn't depart until 0900..... that's great for business and connecting passengers :eek:
Anybody remember IAG doing the same to bmi before they wrapped it up. Definitely sounds like Belfast has been given the kiss of death!

[WHBM]

Any truth behind the BACF LCY-BHD rumours? I'm just booking this on Flybe for a few days time.

From London, the timings for business travel are annoying. First flight doesn't get in to BHD until nearly 1000, last back leaves at 1745. There are four flights a day but three of them are squashed together in the afternoon. This might reflect actual demand, of course ... but I doubt it.

[MrBrightside]

From London, the timings for business travel are annoying. First flight doesn't get in to BHD until nearly 1000, last back leaves at 1745. There are four flights a day but three of them are squashed together in the afternoon. This might reflect actual demand, of course ... but I doubt it.

I would guess this is down to slot availability as early morning and early evening departure slots are at max capacity. I've always found the weekend flights quite busy with Flybe but not sure about the loads mid week.

[waffler]

Don't know where you are getting that flight info from Aergirl.
According to the Aer Lingus timetable on its website the first flight to Lhr
leaves at 0740 daily. Incl 30 th Oct.

[mart901]

FAO and AGP on sale, daily, BHD based for S17.

[garybell]

I have looked at AGP for Summer 17 - the prices are strange !

from april to october £109.99 out

and £112.99 back

[EI-A330-300]

Give them a few days and prices will be normal. The other routes will follow.

[mart901]

Yup looking forward to see what kind of frequencies

[Jamie2k9]

Understand EI will operate Saturday charters to Verona (06.30) and Salzburg (13.30) over ski season with Salzburg been a new addition this year.

[mart901]

Great news, thanks

[stab3.5up]

A sole use charter or joe public can buy seats on it? Anyone any update on Cityflyer?

[EI-A330-300]

The tour operator may allow you to buy seat only.

[garybell]

2 off these just went in to Belfast City Airport - anyone know why ?

[Startledgrapefruit]

2 off these just went in to Belfast City Airport - anyone know why ?

It was just the one. Flew round
Maybe just came in so it would get a mention on the Nolan show

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Salzburg is replacing the Jet 2 charter from Belfast with Topflight.

[stab3.5up]

It was a top secret black ops mission. No one saw it and it never landed in Belfast. The event never took place.

[Jamie2k9]

Two based aircraft:
LHR x3
AGP x1 (-2 weekly) and FAO x1 (-2 weekly)

Non based:
ALC x3 (-2 weekly) - DUB operated
PMI x4 (-1 weekly) - DUB operated

I'm sure freq changes are possible so some may appear.

[AerRyan]

So, one of the based do 3x LHR, and the other does 2weekly flights?

Edit: Oh the AGP and FAO are daily.

Still poor utilization?

[Jamie2k9]

Still poor utilization?

TBH not really as the AGP/FAO services take 14.5 hours. Even with longer hours you couldn't fit something in operating at a reasonable time unless it was to UK. EI aircraft start finishing between 22.00-02.00 in summer.

[Jack1985]

Also there is a curfew in place at BHD...

[AerRyan]

14 hours! Wouldn't have thought it! Makes sence I suppose.

[mart901]

Also worth remembering where frequencies are concerned 2016 was a big increase over previous years and ALC new. Since then FR have arrived on all those routes except PMI (watch this space) and LS have upped frequencies. The W flights will deliver high utilisation as they won't be arriving back to DUB till the wee small hours. We will still have 3 sunshine flights a day.

[EI-BUD]

Two based aircraft:
LHR x3
AGP x1 (-2 weekly) and FAO x1 (-2 weekly)

Non based:
ALC x3 (-2 weekly) - DUB operated
PMI x4 (-1 weekly) - DUB operated

I'm sure freq changes are possible so some may appear.

On the ball there Jamie2K9!
Bookable Thursday morning....

EI-BUD

[AerRyan]

They're bookable now?

[ESCNI]

Far too late.

We've our S17 family holiday flights booked months ago ... ironically the outbound flights are with Aer Lingus, but from Dublin (and a lot cheaper too).

[mart901]

ESCNI

I agree with you its too late, however EZY haven't got peak summer available yet from anywhere to anywhere....

[mart901]

BRU

APR 962
MAY 1652
JUN 2757
JUL 3362 (no figures for AUG/SEP)

AMS good figures and sunshine routes up on previous year each month.

[BFS watcher]

Quickly and efficiently handled by the looks of it.

[ILS25]

What happened?

BE909 to LPL smoke indication warning from APU. Thankfully there was no fire, false alarm.

[sealink]

I know this has already been covered but the EI PMI and ALC flights will now be evening departures... is this correct? I know on a Saturday the airport departures are all done by about 1830.

[mart901]

ALC is 18.55 on Sat

[panpanpanpan]

Has anyone heard any rumours on the sale process at Harbour? It all appears to be quiet at the moment, perhaps not a good time for airport investment.

Any guesses on what a sale price would be and how much of a difference from last time?:ooh:

[Startledgrapefruit]

Going fine I believe
It's part of a portfolio of companies so price is a bit grey
But then they could buy Monday and sell Tuesday what they don't need / want

[BFS BHD]

I see KLM goes from the Fokker 70 to E-175 on Sunday 29th October 2017 for good.

[mart901]

Where did you see that? Interesting to see what flight times are like, this winters flights work well for JFK connections, under £400 return, very quick transfer at AMS. Not possible on next summer times as it reverts to the later flight time.

[BFS BHD]

Just looking on their website the last Fokker 70 flight is around that time.

[El Bunto]

"City radar offline again?" "Surely not" I respond, until checking the NOTAM indicates "yes". SSR only. How did that work out for Tornado pilot this morning, I wonder.

[Startledgrapefruit]

"City radar offline again?" "Surely not" I respond, until checking the NOTAM indicates "yes". SSR only. How did that work out for Tornado pilot this morning, I wonder.
He was probably amazed that news of the new restaurant and retail areas have not been filling up the thread !

[panpanpanpan]

I can remember chatting to someone about the radar a while ago when it was giving so much hassle. I was told that it is a twin channel primary feed and a twin channel SSR feed. Apparently neither primary feed was usable and one of the SSR feeds was a bit dodgy as well! I wonder is it the same problem again, a multi million piece of equipment working at 25% efficiency, bet whoever sold that is getting it in the ear!:O

[GAZMO]

New charter service to BCN for summer


Belfast Charter Programme to Freedom of the Seas (http://www.nitravelnews.com/news-stories/2294-belfast-charter-programme-to-freedom-of-the-seas.html)

[mart901]

Good news. More international passengers.

[BFS BHD]

I seen on Clubworld Travel Facebook page that Belfast International was the airport getting the flights.
Can anyone confirm what airport is getting the flights to Barcelona?

I think NI Travel News is likely the one with the correct airport.

[El Bunto]

Apparently I missed our new Air Ambulance refueling through City airport this morning. Red EC-135 touring NI but I don't know the schedule.

[inOban]

It appears that the EDI service will use a Belfast-based a/c from S17.

[Startledgrapefruit]

See Iceland is new route for 2017

[BHD2BFS]

2hr 55min on a Dash😱? No thanks

[GAZMO]

Good news especially when it looks like EZY will be stopping service in April.


Yep I would prefer jet service A319 to a dash


Article from BBC Icelandair to begin operating from Belfast City Airport - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38184449)

[inOban]

But does have the advantage that you can book through to Canada/US.

[Wycombe]

2hr 55min on a Dash😱? No thanks

The Q400 is operated on routes of this length all over the World (look in the US, Africa and Australia) and closer to home with Flybe who use it on sectors approaching this length (SOU-ALC for example).

That's because it is fast (for a turborprop), economical (so the bean-counters like it) and reasonably quiet and comfortable (from my experience) to fly in.

The days of "it is has props, so must be old, noisy and uncomfortable" are long gone.

[El Bunto]

They keep saying Reykjavik but it'll actually be Keflavik, same as the current Air Iceland route to Aberdeen. And should be a bit more comfortable than EZY's buses, I think they have 31 inch pitch on their DH8Ds ( and 33 up front if you pay for it ).

[EGAC is Better]

The Q400 is operated on routes of this length all over the World (look in the US, Africa and Australia) and closer to home with Flybe who use it on sectors approaching this length (SOU-ALC for example).

That's because it is fast (for a turborprop), economical (so the bean-counters like it) and reasonably quiet and comfortable (from my experience) to fly in.

The days of "it is has props, so must be old, noisy and uncomfortable" are long gone.

Personal preference I guess. I've become a regular user of BE services recently and I can say with certainty that given an alternative I would not take a Q400 on a 3hr sector across part of the North Atlantic.

They may be less noisy than traditional props but they are still somewhat noisier than jets in most of the cabin. The vibrations and noise combined can make them a little unbearable....on a 30 minute flight never mind 3hrs.

Then we have winds....for the average punter a jaunt on a Q400 could be quite an off putting experience in an average winter day. They sometimes feel like paper airplanes when they get tossed around.

All that said, hopefully this is a success and leads to more capacity when Icelandair have an appropriately sized aircraft to serve the market. My understanding is that BHD currently cannot accomodate a B757 (too heavy for the ramp) Is that still the case?

[Cozy F]

Great to see another airline serving Belfast.


Have to say, same sentiments about an 800 mile propeller aircraft journey for 3 hours over the North Atlantic.


But best of luck to them! ;)

[El Bunto]

My understanding is that BHD currently cannot accomodate a B757 (too heavy for the ramp) Is that still the case? It has done at least twice in the past, but only executive-configured and they span into an adjacent gate area. Checking the PCN vs ACN, the runway can accept a full-MTOW 757-200 ( ACN 60 on PCN 69/F/D/W/T, flexible surface ) but the taxiway is limited to PCN 50 and the best stands are 48 ( versus ACN 52 for rigid surfaces ), so they wouldn't be able to handle full weight. Probably not a problem for that flight, though. Interestingly the A321-200 and 737-800 actually have higher MTOW ACNs due to the non-bogie gear. You could always tow it half-filled to the runway and top it up there ;)

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Didn't TCX Belguim operate B752 service to Reus in past....

[EGAC is Better]

Didn't TCX Belguim operate B752 service to Reus in past....

I think it was TCX UK who planned it but eventually operated with A321. If my memory serves, thats when the discussion about BHD's ability to handle B757's happened.

Thanks for the clarification El Brunto :)

[PPRuNeUser0176]

I think it was TCX UK who planned it but eventually operated with A321. If my memory serves, thats when the discussion about BHD's ability to handle B757's happened.

Thanks for the clarification El Brunto

I see, didn't think a B752 would be more less 15,000 kg heavier than A321

[flightrisk82]

Agree with the poster above, the thought of being tossed around the North Atlantic in a Q400 wouldn't appeal, no matter how much more legroom I might have. Am happy to use Flybe on short business hops to airports not served by EZY or Ryanair...but given I like to visit Iceland over winter when the weather is spectacular(ly bad), I don't fancy an approach to Keflavik in a puddle hopper. Think I'd be more inclined to go Wow from Dublin if EZY pull Keflavik from Belfast as anticipated.

[Husky One]

Good luck to them but 3hrs on a q400 is a step too far. My initial thoughts had been 757 which would've made a great connecting service but flying oceanic at a flight level in the mid twenties on a prop is too much much of a stretch. Easy's bus only takes 2hrs.

[david1994]

Good luck to them but 3hrs on a q400 is a step too far. My initial thoughts had been 757 which would've made a great connecting service but flying oceanic at a flight level in the mid twenties on a prop is too much much of a stretch. Easy's bus only takes 2hrs.

Not really much of a difference here to be honest, easyJet from BFS is blocked at 2hr 35 and Icelandair is blocked at 2hr 50 so extra 15 minutes block time.

[cessnarocket]

The big difference is bobbing along at fl240 not being able to climb above the bumpy stuff makes a 3 hour flight seem like a 10 hour one. Another problem they are facing is its right on the edge of max range so any head winds will require a stop in Stornaway. We will not go into aircraft reliability or unexpected winds ETOPS etc. Will be very surprised if it even starts TBH..

[stab3.5up]

Yes 3 times a week does seem rather ambitious unless they really push the onward connection model that Iceland is famous for. But either way 3hrs in a dash......

The seat map on the website shows a couple off rows fwd and aft not available for sale so maybe it's capacity restricted to get the range.

[Husky One]

Easy's average flight time is around 2hrs. The block time allocated is generous but likely reflects the chance of significant winds. It will take every minute of the allocated 2hr 50 in a q400

[GAZMO]

But will EZY be stopping KEF in April?? Anybody know??

If both operating to KEF I cannot see the route being profitable

[inOban]

EZY is at a disadvantage to the Iceland - based operators who can offer onward transits. They're cutting back from EDI now WOW have started.

[flying officer kite]

Another problem they are facing is its right on the edge of max range so any head winds will require a stop in Stornaway.
As mentioned before the Q400 does operate longer sectors than this one, SOU-ALC for example is longer than either the Air Iceland ABZ or BHD routes, and that's on an aircraft with more seats too. The Q400 has better range than pretty much anything else in it's size and efficiency category.

Stornoway? Why would you divert so early on a route with headwinds, when you could go to Egilsstadir (an Icelandair diversion airport) or Vagar if you really needed to?

Reliability could well be a non-issue. If we forget about a certain purple Q400 operator and look to Wideroe, their pilots have nothing but praise for the machine.. 'unusually very reliable for an aircraft' was the quote.


I'm not sure why you'd think the airline won't start the route, they launched Aberdeen a good while ago, so I'm sure they know what they are talking about.


Hopefully the prices will drop a little bit, but I look forward to using this service in the future, KEF can be a little bit manic during their rush hour but it's a good hub for connecting to North America.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Looks like Aldergrove just got another delivery of sour grapes.
What's wrong with the Dash ?
Oh it's not painted orange.

[cessnarocket]

Wow plenty of response to most of my points however still no reference to bobbing about at fl240 ?? I'm disappointed...

[mart901]

Blah blah blah. Ya pays ya money ya takes yer chance.
EZY clearly exiting the route. Yes it's a long sector for a DH8 but ultimately from a customer perspective they have quite a lot more legroom than EZY and remove the need to be standing in a line to board the plane before its even on the ground including standing on a stairway for what seems ages, to be told hurry up please we have a 7 minute window to board the aircraft, sitting cramped up in cattle class.... No thanks I'd rather fly from a more convenient airport and have the option of transatlantic connections. Take away from the total journey time the time it takes to get out to BFS if you are a Belfast resident and the time spent standing around and queuing and you soon find its the quicker option.

[El Bunto]

FL240? Not too bad. Consider that the DCs and Constellations heading trans-Atlantic struggled to break FL180, at least not before the final quarter of the flight. Even the mighty Stratocruisers were sometimes stuck around FL160... My only concern about the Q400 on the route is the lack of baggage capacity for people connecting onwards.

[irishlad06]

You don't need to worry about baggage. The q400 can comfortably fit 75 bags in the two rear holds with 30 in hold 7, and 45 in hold 6. Then you always have the front locker hold although you would be lucky to get 5 in there. I've once seen 95 bags packed into the holds, we could have got a few more but the problem was the floor limitations and the weight in which the hold could support.

[Husky One]

I do love some of the waffle in the forums. Anyone who thinks a q400 is more comfortable than a bus can't have flown much on either. Flybe used to run it on the odd LGW and leave bags behind. Reason? International connecting passengers with real baggage. If this is a niche replacement for easyJet's withdrawal then fair enough but as a gateway to the US I'd fly to pretty much any UK airport and jump on a jet before considering this... or just get the bus to Dub. I could fly to GLA, check-in, kill time in the lounge and still overtake this before it got near KEF.

[West Brit]

Bristol to Iceland runs to April then becomes winter only. STN and BFS nothing after April. Are they winter only?

[ILS25]

I would think the majority of people wouldn't care less if it's an Airbus or a Q400. They want to get somewhere, they book a flight, get on a plane of some description and hopefully get off at the other side.

[canberra97]

And a majority of people would also be disappointed when they realise they are flying on a Q400 rather than an Airbus, a Jet seems the norm for most and a prop means old and slow to most people, us aviation enthusiasts with all the facts won't change that opinion.

[OneBellEnd]

Good to see another Airline setting up from Belfast.


How are the SN flights doing at this stage to Brussels?

[EGAC is Better]

I would think the majority of people wouldn't care less if it's an Airbus or a Q400. They want to get somewhere, they book a flight, get on a plane of some description and hopefully get off at the other side.

They will care less after spending 3hrs transiting an Atlantic gale, bouncing through clouds that are too tall to be avoided and generally being tossed around like raggy dolls :)

Q400's are not a pretty place to be a passenger when it is windy and this routing is very likely to encounter windy conditions.

[Hial Flyer]

Why don't all the armchair spotters write to FI and advice them what a ludicrous idea it is to fly to Belfast. What are they thinking? If you don't like flying to Iceland on a DH4 then don't do it, but i'm sure there will be plenty who do.

[fjencl]

Very well said :D:D:D

Surely all the negative bashers can decide to negatively bash another subject, as its all getting a bit boring discussing a dash 8 experience .....yawn yawn yawn.

Move along !!!!!!

[bongoo]

Very well said :D:D:D

Surely all the negative bashers can decide to negatively bash another subject, as its all getting a bit boring discussing a dash 8 experience .....yawn yawn yawn.

Move along !!!!!!
It's a BHD thing. If they had announced this route from BFS it would be nothing but positivity. Pretty pathetic really.

[Cozy F]

OBE - Brussels passengers built well during the summer. Some days stronger than others and don't know about yield performance. Tailing off now coming into the winter months, to be expected I suppose. :)

[Husky One]

I use both airports and both have large flaws and I can't be bothered with the politics. For what it's worth the most frequent comment I hear when getting on a Flybe flight is a groan followed by 'oh no not one of these again' so I'd say the comments about props are perfectly valid. The q4 doesn't bother me for an hour. Beyond that is a stretch. In fact Flybe even seem to be using sector length as part of their marketing (guess they forgot about SOU-ALC).
If citywing decided to launch BFS-CDG in their 410 I'm sure they get the same reception. in 1986 nobody cared what was under the wing, in 2016 they are a good deal more fussy. Sad but true

[OneBellEnd]

Thanks Cozy.

Good to see Brussels is getting stronger after what must have been a tough start in the Spring.

Had wondered if it would be a logical route for Ryanair to start from Belfast if it showed a basis for developing with low fares??

[NWSRG]

I use both airports and both have large flaws and I can't be bothered with the politics. For what it's worth the most frequent comment I hear when getting on a Flybe flight is a groan followed by 'oh no not one of these again' so I'd say the comments about props are perfectly valid. The q4 doesn't bother me for an hour. Beyond that is a stretch. In fact Flybe even seem to be using sector length as part of their marketing (guess they forgot about SOU-ALC).
If citywing decided to launch BFS-CDG in their 410 I'm sure they get the same reception. in 1986 nobody cared what was under the wing, in 2016 they are a good deal more fussy. Sad but true

Careful Husky...common sense on one of the Belfast airport threads? You'll be blacklisted! :-)

[EGAC is Better]

Careful Husky...common sense on one of the Belfast airport threads? You'll be blacklisted! :-)

+1 on this.

I'm no armchair CEO or hater! I use both airports and happen to prefer using BHD.

As for the Q400, I stand by everything I said and agree totally with Husky. My original comments expressed hope this service would work and expand but in the meantime, I certainly won't fly for 3hrs on a Q400.

My other half who doesn't care how she gets to where she has to go, has zero interest in aviation and regularly uses Flybe responded with "No thanks" when asked about the propect of spending 3hrs on a Q400.

I'm over this now, my opinion is as valid as those who think this is a non-issue. Time will tell. Hopefully it works but my opinion happens to be that it is fighting a head wind from day one.

[Skipness One Echo]

I can't believe someone seriously picked "EGAC is better" as a username......
The Q400 will be competing against er....no one! We used to see Fokker 50s on GLA-REK, they had to stop because of all those "windy conditions" ! #notreally
The bulk of anyone booking this route will in no way have even looked at the Aircraft Type option.
So, are you honestly 33 years old?

[SecondDog]

The Q400 will be competing against er....no one!

EZY will run KEF in winter I believe, unless the prices from Icelandair put them off I suppose 😕

[EGAC is Better]

I can't believe someone seriously picked "EGAC is better" as a username......
The Q400 will be competing against er....no one! We used to see Fokker 50s on GLA-REK, they had to stop because of all those "windy conditions" ! #notreally
The bulk of anyone booking this route will in no way have even looked at the Aircraft Type option.
So, are you honestly 33 years old?

Hahahahahahahaha!!! You can always rely on a Belfast thread to resort to personal insults when people do not agree with your opinion.

The username was created tounge in cheek a very long time ago, but crack on and be judgemental Skipness. Any respect I had for you has been greatly diminished with that comment. Good job.

When were the F50's? Before the masses became accustomed to the expectation that their mode of transport would be a jet? Interestingly, I have seen a lot of Icelandair marketing material with the Q400 on it.....ohh sorry I've mistaken it for photo's of a B757! Like it or not, turboprops have a stigma attached nowadays.

The Q400 will be competing against WowAir from DUB and EZY from BFS in winter if they keep the route open. But don't let the truth get in the way of a good rant now.

[El Bunto]

When were the F50's? Sometime after 1987? Entered service a year before the A320 so not exactly out of its era... Passengers have been "preferring" jets to turboprops since 1952 but when it comes to booking the flight that's usually forgotten; just look at the fleets of CRJs and ERJs parked in the USA now after ATRs and Q400s reclaimed their routes.

[mart901]

I notice now several websites including UA offering US flights via LHR with EI/UA, not sure if this is a new phenomena or I've just become aware of it, certainly very competitive for EWR.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

I notice now several websites including UA offering US flights via LHR with EI/UA, not sure if this is a new phenomena or I've just become aware of it, certainly very competitive for EWR.

EI/UA have been code sharing for years, even when BFS-LHR operated this was available.

UA even offer cheaper fares from DUB to EWR via MAN/BHX/GLA/EDI instead of flying direct.

[Una Due Tfc]

Indeed it's one of the reasons AA are dragging their heals on EI joining One world and the trans Atlantic joint venture they have with IAG, EI codeshare with both UA and JetBlue.

[mart901]

I think it's just totally gone by unnoticed by me, probably because it's come up cheaper with other combinations in the past. That's an interesting muddle of affairs, AA/UA/BA/EI....

[BFS watcher]

Interesting evening with at least 4 arrivals after the curfew. I bet the Culthra set are really happy about their dinner parties being disrupted

[cuthere]

Aye, by FR1137 going overhead at 6000FT at 23.20......

[Startledgrapefruit]

Interesting evening with at least 4 arrivals after the curfew. I bet the Culthra set are really happy about their dinner parties being disrupted
BFS watcher please read the planning for the airport and not the friends of Aldergrove societys propaganda
Curfew is 23.59 but then why speak the truth when made up facts dampen your party.
We are often woken by your lovely airports jets at 0130 in the summer. Is that something your reject in your rants ?

[ILS25]

Childish rants about curfews and noise. Little notice and even less care.

[El Bunto]

Re: freighter noise at International, a few months ago they introduced a night-time max speed of 250 KIAS below FL070 to try to reduce overflight noise. Took a little while for crews to adapt ( e.g. to stop popping the spoilers to restrain speed ) but subjectively it has worked.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Re: freighter noise at International, a few months ago they introduced a night-time max speed of 250 KIAS below FL070 to try to reduce overflight noise. Took a little while for crews to adapt ( e.g. to stop popping the spoilers to restrain speed ) but subjectively it has worked.
You should hear the EZY pop it's spoiler over south Belfast.

[DC9_10]

See Cutters on the thread making his usual anti BFS rants. At least he's safe knowing FR won't be keeping the Londonderry folk up at the crack of 9am for very much longer.

[West Brit]

Smokes and mirrors with relation to planning etc at the airports. Surely the curfew is between 21.30 and 06.30 at BHD. Planes can land after 21.30 to 23.59 in exceptional circumstances.
As for BFS I thought that within the last 5 years aircraft arriving/departing during the night had to route around the urban sprawl of Belfast.

[cuthere]

DC_lhclyflflgub.

We inhabitants of Derry are pleased to see the back of FR. We also dislike hypocrisy and liars. Sorry chum.

Ps Merry Christmas to all, and I hope next week's inclement weather doesn't spoil travel plans.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Smokes and mirrors with relation to planning etc at the airports. Surely the curfew is between 21.30 and 06.30 at BHD. Planes can land after 21.30 to 23.59 in exceptional circumstances.
As for BFS I thought that within the last 5 years aircraft arriving/departing during the night had to route around the urban sprawl of Belfast.

OK have any of you read the planning ?
Exceptional circumstances is not in the planning statement
It is "the exception to this" the word exceptional is only used by the residents group and Aldergrove huggers.
As for going round Belfast at night. Nope. If you look at flight radar 24 even with its inaccuracies you will see many flights follow the final approach for 04.

[DC9_10]

Cutters,this is the BHD thread. Not the Londonderry one. So you say youll be glad to get rid of FR. Who's gonna trump up cause the EU will be all over NI executive funding of PSO funded routes from a council funded (tax payers) vanity project. At least BHD pays its way and profitable.

[West Brit]

OK have any of you read the planning ?

1997 planning agreement under Part 3 - Obligations

1. Hours

Only in exceptional circumstances to permit Delayed Aircraft to use the Aerodrome during the Extended hours.

Now just to clarify that the extended hours are from 21.30-23.59.

[West Brit]

As for BFS I thought that within the last 5 years aircraft arriving/departing during the night had to route around the urban sprawl of Belfast.

With reference to Belfast International Airport, there was an article within in the last 5 years or so, announcing a commitment to routing aircraft at night from the greater Belfast area. I have to say they still appear to route over Belfast up to midnight anyway.

[cuthere]

DC. You brought up Derry, not me. Now give it a rest. You're making yourself look like a right imbecile.

I can confirm that FR routes over Greater Belfast. I was on the last LGW-BFS flight of the day last week.

[DC9_10]

Cutters, give it a rest lad. You're making yourself look a dick. You hate BFS so much but you fly LGW to BFS. Who's the hypocrit. At least you're 14 miles closer to your tractor.

[True Blue]

What amuses me is that the airport has known about the operating hours issue almost from the beginning. The airlines knew before they started operating there. They knew what they were getting into and then decide, let us just ignore the restrictions when it suits.

So, why shouldn't residents object when the airport and airlines know the rules?

If the airlines don't like the rules, use Bfs! You cannot say that BA and EI were not aware of the rules before they decided to use Bhd. Why did they not take that into account? Unless, of course, they think they can just ignore them. One of the reasons why many people are getting fed up with big businesses.

[DC9_10]

Nice one TB and very true. I'm sure Cutters will have something to say about his beloved LDY but hates FR but uses FR to fly to BFS. Hiprocacy at first hand, but we all know he's a dick.

[SecondDog]

DC, you and Cuthere need to get a room but keep your crap off the threads. We are interested in aviation here.

As for the curfew, I would be interested to see some stats on late arrivals.

[cuthere]

Second Dog, completely agree. DC, if you can work out the private messaging facility, feel free to get in touch. Otherwise, stop stinking up the thread.

[DC9_10]

I here what you say Second, . I've worked in this field for many years in crew,ground and revenue. I would gladly get a room with Cutters but we would probably argue all night. I've worked for Manx Airines, Business Air, British Midland Loganair, Suckling Airways and easyJet. I think I have some say rather that a spotter.

[GAZMO]

Second dog
BHD publishes the late arrivals and departures each month on their website
Found under statistics information

Last month 28 late either arrivals and departures. Over last three months approx 1% of flights

[BFS BHD]

Have you got a link to the page GAZMO can't find it the right page. Cheers

[GAZMO]

Belfast City Airport - Performance & Statistics| Belfast City Airport (http://www.belfastcityairport.com/Community/Environment/Performance-Statistics.aspx)


hope this helps

[BFS BHD]

Cheers GAZMO! :)

[SecondDog]

Cheers GAZMO! :)

Yep, cheers Gazmo. I thought it was relatively small.

[mart901]

Air Iceland will be year round service. So up against EZY over winter months for point to point. Nevertheless good we have 2 carriers on such a route.

[cessnarocket]

I see the operation hours must be totally out the window several Flybe now scheduled to land past 2130 in the summer months, perhaps this is subject to change?

[AerRyan]

Air Iceland will be year round service. So up against EZY over winter months for point to point. Nevertheless good we have 2 carriers on such a route.

Icelandair*

[CaptainDoony]

Icelandair*

Operated by Air Iceland*

[mart901]

Indeed CaptainDoony, and the flights from your airport take 5 mins less and I notice no problems.

[CaptainDoony]

Yes not a diversion or all engines out glide yet!

[ILS25]

New owners announced.

Sold: George Best Belfast City Airport has a new owner - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/sold-george-best-belfast-city-airport-has-a-new-owner-35314516.html)

[Startledgrapefruit]

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/minister-backs-inquiry-calls-to-end-seat-sales-limit-at-belfast-city-airport-35335671.html

Here we go with the sour grapes and mud slinging.

[ILS25]

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/minister-backs-inquiry-calls-to-end-seat-sales-limit-at-belfast-city-airport-35335671.html

Here we go with the sour grapes and mud slinging.

The seats for sale cap was a daft idea from the outset.

[panpanpanpan]

If I remember correctly, the seats for sale limit was in place for the old cattle shed that used to be a terminal and was related to fire safety. How it transferred over to the new modern facility that was built I have no idea!

Lets hope the noise monitoring system doesn't rely on data from the radar as it appears broken more often than not by the rate of notams recently.

[Startledgrapefruit]

If I remember correctly, the seats for sale limit was in place for the old cattle shed that used to be a terminal and was related to fire safety. How it transferred over to the new modern facility that was built I have no idea!

Lets hope the noise monitoring system doesn't rely on data from the radar as it appears broken more often than not by the rate of notams recently.

It's based on info from two stations at Kinnegar and Nettlefield.

[ILS25]

Belfast City Airport's 2m seat sale limit to be lifted - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38491188)

[AerRyan]

Aer Lingus switching slots with Shannon from the end of March. First departure to Heathrow now at 8:45am.

[A320.b744]

Aer Lingus routes have done well in 2016, although passenger numbers will fall next year given Aer Lingus have reduced frequencies on all routes.

Malaga: 67,618 (76% LF) up 24.2%
Faro: 67,151 (75% LF) up 13.7%
Palma: 29,135 (76% LF) up 253.8%
Alicante: 28,669 (75% LF) new route

Despite December stats being out, BHD flights to BRU and AMS are unavailable, but passenger numbers up to November are as follows;

Amsterdam: 38,379 (LF between 72% (0J 80Y) and 78% (9J 65Y) depending on configuration). Average 57 seats per flight.
Brussels: 18,065 (LF approx 55%). Average 52 seats per flight.

With December figures included, Amsterdam will most likely surpass 40,000 which isn't bad for the first full year of operations. The replacement of the Fokker 70 with the 88 seat E175 by October will add up to 10,000 extra seats next year, allowing the route to expand. I can't see a second daily flight being added, however, unless load factors exceed 85-90%.

Even though the Brussels flight had a rough start due to the Brussels Airport bombing several days before flights commenced, passenger numbers are pretty pathetic (Vueling cancelled BCN with approx 65% LF). And to make matters worse, SN are planning on retiring the BAe 146 within the next year, replacing it with an A319 which is an increase of over 50 seats per flight. Unless BMI Regional operate the flight with ERJ145s or SN start a huge ad campaign, I can't see the route lasting.

[koninckske]

Expect the RJ100 to be replaced by a SSJ100 operated by Cityjet and not an A319.

[A320.b744]

Oh yes I forgot about that... It's nice that one 'rare' aircraft type will be replaced by another unusual specimen, instead of reverting to the all too common A320 family.

[dantheflyboy]

I have just been informed the Boots retail outlet airside bhd is to close in March. Reason given is they refuse to pay the large increase of rent imposed by the airport. Business is Business but I will miss this store for the good value food offering when compared to the other outlets airside, not to mention handy availability of last minute chemist needs.
A shame that a compromise couldn't of been found as nobody is a winner here, the passengers lose a service, airport lose rental income and boots are having to lay off staff. I can't imagine there is a queue of other retailers waiting to occupy such a small space.

[tigger2k8]

Boots retail unit closure.
I have just been informed the Boots retail outlet airside bhd is to close in March. Reason given is they refuse to pay the large increase of rent imposed by the airport. Business is Business but I will miss this store for the good value food offering when compared to the other outlets airside, not to mention handy availability of last minute chemist needs.
A shame that a compromise couldn't of been found as nobody is a winner here, the passengers lose a service, airport lose rental income and boots are having to lay off staff. I can't imagine there is a queue of other retailers waiting to occupy such a small space.

Same happened in BFS maybe, 5 years ago? Superdrug was quick to come across.. if the demand is there, someone will fill the spot

[Cozy F]

Has SN thrown in the towel on BHD Brussels? Gone from the booking system end of March .. ��

[El Bunto]

Has SN thrown in the towel on BHD Brussels? Gone from the booking system end of March .. Bookable again from 31 October 2017 onwards. Also customers with existing bookings for Summer travel have not received cancellation notices. Might be something to do with the Superjet wet-lease?

[BFS watcher]

Looks like BHD down 6% in December. New shareholders wont be happy!

[DC9_10]

Has Brussels been axed. Tried booking flights for my brother in April and nothing coming up. Going from Dublin now.

[A320.b744]

Has Brussels been axed. Tried booking flights for my brother in April and nothing coming up. Going from Dublin now.

This has been discussed already - see previous page. Flights are no longer on sale for the Summer season, but are back on sale from October. It's possibly something to do with the RJ100s being retired before the Cityjet SSJ contract begins.

[DC9_10]

Just spoke to a mate who works on the ramp. Apparently it's cancelled.

[AerRyan]

My experience with alot of employees at airports is that although they do have alot of knowledge, it can often be slightly off, for example, cancelled could well be cancelled for the summer.

Generally only the people in the management area will be able to tell you the real story.

[DC9_10]

In my experience, no airline would cancel a fledgling marginal route in the peak spring and summer months to reinstate in long winter months at the end of the year.

[AerRyan]

An airline with an aircraft shortage might.

[A320.b744]

I agree. The RJ100s are being retired at a faster rate than the A319s, A320s and SSJ100s are being delivered. Though I must admit it's strange that SN would retire its RJs before having the capacity to operate a full schedule, especially during the summer season.

The fact that flights are on sale for the winter season would strongly suggest that the route's not being scrapped completely.

[BHD2BFS]

Maybe flybe could cover the route for them?
Large flybe base with crew already trained on the product... Makes sense

[rutankrd]

I agree. The RJ100s are being retired at a faster rate than the A319s, A320s and SSJ100s are being delivered. Though I must admit it's strange that SN would retire its RJs before having the capacity to operate a full schedule, especially during the summer season.

In addition to the Whisper Jets being removed dear old Lufthansa are acquiring 100% stake and will be moving the SN brand under the Eurowings umbrella.

Many changes and operational reviews coming at Zaventem over the next few months.

[Startledgrapefruit]

Looks like BHD down 6% in December. New shareholders wont be happy!
And I bet you got a little damp when you saw that BFS watcher.

[mart901]

The BHD figures have to be taken in context. For one thing around 17,000 less pax that were using LGW. Several key routes BHX, MAN and the Scottish ones have grown nicely, despite EZY. LPL is core EZY territory and despite BE doing well for a while EZY will guard it well, especially with FR on the scene.

[cuthere]

Confirmed. City to Brussels flight is cancelled. Happy belated Christmas DC_7493837 and BFS Watcher (who won't have noticed as they watch BFS.....apparently).

Brussels was always going to be a hard sell as the terrorism that Belgium has experienced would (ironically) put a lot of people in Northern Ireland off.

[GAZMO]

Pity to see any European route go, but Brussels airport incident probably put a lot of people off. However I thought it would have bounced back, just like Paris

Wonder if any other airline will try

[DC9_10]

To suggest Cutters, anyone would be gloating over the loss of a route, especially due to terrorism is definitely scrapping the bottom of the barrel, even for you.

[GAZMO]

Brussels flight cancelled, BBC NI link

Belfast City Airport: Brussels Airlines ends service - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38812700)

[El Bunto]

KLM have changed the times for the Sunday flight from Amsterdam, now scheduled to arrive in Belfast at 10:10 and away again 10:40. Not quite early enough to catch the third departure wave from Schiphol, though, but should be fine for the fourth at ~ 14:00.

[mart901]

When's that effective to/from?

[El Bunto]

As of yesterday, apparently. Also as of today Brussels Airlines have axed the Monday service, confirmed on their online timetable.

[mart901]

Belfast City Airport - Eastern Airways | Belfast City to Isle of Man (http://www.belfastcityairport.com/News/EASTERN-AIRWAYS-TO-BEGIN-ISLE-OF-MAN-ROUTE)

[VentureGo]

This morning's flights cancelled!
NCL-IOM (G-MAJY) operated as schedule, but aircraft remains on ground at IOM with its IOM-BHD-IOM cancelled. - Not sure if a/c has gone tech. Too soon to say whether IOM-NCL will operated as scheduled this afternoon

[Cozy F]

So it seems the current plan is to maintain the integrity of the frontiers after brexit by using technology.


Maybe that has the potential to even up some of the damaging tax loopholes which currently exist.


BHD loses so much business every year by BA directing their NI traffic by road to depart on their flights from Dublin to Heathrow. By doing this, and transferring on through Heathrow within 24 hours under a single ticket / airline code, air passengers can evade paying the heavy long haul Air Tax which would exist if they flew on a UK-originating flight and staying within UK jurisdiction (BHD - LHR and onwards). The same loophole exists if someone arrives in the UK but makes their way to Dublin or elsewhere (Amsterdam?) to take a return journey. Little wonder in these circumstances that Willie Walsh sees benefit in moving activity out of the UK into Dublin!


So basically everyone within the UK pays through the nose for travel from and within their own country under Treasury regulations but the barn door is lying wide open to be exploited in neighbouring European countries for their own economic benefit. The much treasured Common Travel Area within Ireland and the UK becomes rather less 'common' when one party uses it to benefit at the other's expense. Surely this type of madness can only be damaging to the UK's economy. Perhaps frontier technology will help the UK to wipe out these irregularities and ensure that everyone gets a fair deal in future.

[Refuellerman]

So it seems the current plan is to maintain the integrity of the frontiers after brexit by using technology.


Maybe that has the potential to even up some of the damaging tax loopholes which currently exist.


BHD loses so much business every year by BA directing their NI traffic by road to depart on their flights from Dublin to Heathrow. By doing this, and transferring on through Heathrow within 24 hours under a single ticket / airline code, air passengers can evade paying the heavy long haul Air Tax which would exist if they flew on a UK-originating flight and staying within UK jurisdiction (BHD - LHR and onwards). The same loophole exists if someone arrives in the UK but makes their way to Dublin or elsewhere (Amsterdam?) to take a return journey. Little wonder in these circumstances that Willie Walsh sees benefit in moving activity out of the UK into Dublin!


So basically everyone within the UK pays through the nose for travel from and within their own country under Treasury regulations but the barn door is lying wide open to be exploited in neighbouring European countries for their own economic benefit. The much treasured Common Travel Area within Ireland and the UK becomes rather less 'common' when one party uses it to benefit at the other's expense. Surely this type of madness can only be damaging to the UK's economy. Perhaps frontier technology will help the UK to wipe out these irregularities and ensure that everyone gets a fair deal in future.
100% lad, keep the foreigners and drug dealers and every sort of badness out, we have enough badness and corruption to sort out first lol

[owenc]

As a young man, I just want to live a life of peace and prosperity. I'm tired of bickering and fighting.

It would be great if the current Stormont administration could be replaced to be honest.

[A320.b744]

I was booking flights with KLM and noticed that from this Sunday, Belfast flights will be upgraded to the E190 on selected days. The current schedule is as follows;

E190: 26th March - 9th April, 1st May - 14th May, every Sunday from 21st May
F70: 10th April - 30th April
E175: Monday - Saturday from 15th May

I'd say the prolonged E190 periods will be due to operational reasons - lack of F70/E175 - or possibly something to do with Embraer crew training at BHD.

The Fokker 70 will leave Belfast for the final time on 30th April.

The Sunday upgrade plus the extra capacity of the E175 over the F70 means that there will be 68 extra weekly seats each way on the route.

[El Bunto]

Well spotted re: the F70 schedule. Outlasted its great rival, the 146, by just a month at Belfast given Brussels Airline's last service was on Friday 24th.

[EGAC is Better]

Well spotted re: the F70 schedule. Outlasted its great rival, the 146, by just a month at Belfast given Brussels Airline's last service was on Friday 24th.

It would seem the 146 has the last laugh. KLM have signed a wet lease agreement with Cityjet which will see the 146 operate some of KLM's Belfast services. Quote below from the press release.

From May 15th KLM Cityhopper will wet lease two RJ85 aircraft from CityJet to operate four additional Amsterdam to London City services each weekday, bringing the KLM frequency to eight per weekday, four operated by KLM Cityhopper on Embraer 190s and four by CityJet on wet lease using Avro RJ85s. CityJet will also operate a number of existing flights to Birmingham, Hamburg, Bordeaux and Belfast on behalf of KLM.

[BFS watcher]

BHD looking down about 9 to 10% in February. With all the domestics in except GLA and LBA, they are at 142K if you say 24K for LBA and GLA combined plus 4K for AMS and BRU then 170K is the approx Feb pax. Not too good compared to the 189k in Feb 16.

[Startledgrapefruit]

BHD looking down about 9 to 10% in February. With all the domestics in except GLA and LBA, they are at 142K if you say 24K for LBA and GLA combined plus 4K for AMS and BRU then 170K is the approx Feb pax. Not too good compared to the 189k in Feb 16.

No doubt Bfswatcher is now sitting there with a wee cake and party hat on party blower in hand.

[BFS watcher]

No doubt Bfswatcher is now sitting there with a wee cake and party hat on party blower in hand.

You missed the bottle of champers,

[Startledgrapefruit]

you old enough for champers??

[Waldo1]

How's aer Lingus holding up this year on Spain and Portugal? I know it's early days but hopefully they can do a turn still?

[Locker10a]

How's aer Lingus holding up this year on Spain and Portugal? I know it's early days but hopefully they can do a turn still?

Are their A320s payload restricted on flights like AGP and FAO from BHD ?

[Waldo1]

Are their A320s payload restricted on flights like AGP and FAO from BHD ?
Don't think so, anytime I was on the Malaga, it seemed to make the runway seem very big...

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Not form BHD, wouldn't be that heavy.
____

Fares might be a bit soft, FR only charging 12.99 from BFS-AGP on Sunday! I suspect they can make a profit but with EI and so few aircraft it needs to be a good return to keep it.

I have never saw a AGP service so cheap.

[mart901]

Don't think so, anytime I was on the Malaga, it seemed to make the runway seem very big...

I don't believe there is a restriction, for example the flight which had a medical emergency recently had 175 pax on.

LBA going 5x daily from winter, LPL remaining daily despite all the predictions.

[A320.b744]

Brian Ambrose will make several new route announcements over the coming months - anyone want to speculate?

[EI-BUD]

My only guesses IF there really are new routes;

Eurowings with a German route,

WOW to Kef and on to US and Canada,

BA on LCY,

Would bmiregional look at EU points on their current
network too thin for 737/319/320?

Cork with Stobart, resurrection of an old route?

Eastern increase on IOM.

Unless Icelandair's routes connect to addition US points, would that form the basis of an announcement.


If there is anything new, it will be in the above....

..so long as the airport holds on to its LHR service, that should be no. 1 priority...

[BHD2BFS]

Brian Ambrose will make several new route announcements over the coming months - anyone want to speculate?

Where has this been reported?

[panpanpanpan]

Brian Ambrose will make several new route announcements over the coming months - anyone want to speculate?
This one is news to me as well!

Unfortunately Harbour is stagnant, no growth and indeed going backwards. Their main player FlyBe just doesn't seem to have either the appetite or capability of any kind of expansion. I can remember some 20 years ago hearing of Harbours plans involving Jersey European as they were then doing great and exciting things - but nothing. Why?:confused:

Harbour is crying out for a leisure London route again, Heathrow and London City are fantastic but prices are astronomical! Why on earth would anyone pay 5 times the price to go to Heathrow for a few days when they can get the same offering from Aldergrove with either Ryanair or Easy.

Its a sad day when staff I know from Harbour think a new Jetstream service to IOM is a good result from their marketing team.:ugh:

[A320.b744]

Where has this been reported?

Air passenger duty an anchor on tourism growth says airport boss - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/air-passenger-duty-an-anchor-on-tourism-growth-says-airport-boss-35648128.html)

It was also mentioned on twitter.

The article also says that BHD lost out on a Madrid route with Iberia Express to Cork because of APD.

[BHD2BFS]

Mr ambrose did not say he will be announcing more airlines or routes, it has been worded as "similar business announcements"
From what I've learnt about the management of both airports is they like to brag if they have and real solid news or announcements

This makes me think it has been carefully worded. It could be similar "aviation announcements" which could be anything from airlines to a new shop in the terminal "similar" meaning about his airport
I don't wish to sound negative but I think if euro wings or LH announce a German route from BFS it would be a real blow to BHD as these are the airlines that would usually like City

[A320.b744]

There was another article - can't remember which one - plus a couple of twitter posts saying new routes were in the running over the coming months (i.e. not immediately).

I agree that if Lufthansa Group were to open a BFS route - could happen given their endeavours at BHD failed - it would be catastrophic for BHD.

[BFS watcher]

There was another article - can't remember which one - plus a couple of twitter posts saying new routes were in the running over the coming months (i.e. not immediately).

I agree that if Lufthansa Group were to open a BFS route - could happen given their endeavours at BHD failed - it would be catastrophic for BHD.Mr A talking any about quality over quantity...I wonder if he has tried this line with his shareholders as BFS heads towards 6 million?

[A320.b744]

I think Ambrose should take whatever routes he can get. Passenger numbers will most likely fall this year given that Aer Lingus and Flybe have reduced frequencies, which would be two years in a row at a time when most UK airports are recording double-digit growth.

[BHD2BFS]

You have to remember though that legacy Airlines pay more at airport so klm would pay for example may be more than 4-5 rotations by a LCc would pay

[A320.b744]

Yes but having a LCC paying low fees is better than having no airline paying no fees.

[BFS watcher]

Yes but having a LCC paying low fees is better than having no airline paying no fees.looks like Flybe down in movements by over 10% this summer.

[A320.b744]

looks like Flybe down in movements by over 10% this summer.

That's pretty much in line with their national figures - they're cutting up to 18% of current capacity by 2020. 6 Q400s are being disposed of the year, and a further 9 are going over the next 2 years. The E195 leases will also expire over the next couple of years. I went into detail about this on the Flybe thread a few weeks ago, but long story short, BHD (and all most other bases) will probably lose an aircraft over the next 2 years.

[Aboveandbeyond.]

Depends if BE decide to expand at BHD post the Routes conference.

[A320.b744]

Depends if BE decide to expand at BHD post the Routes conference.

They're cutting back everywhere else and there aren't any real opportunities left for Flybe from Belfast. They were unable to make European flights work, and pretty much all potential new domestic routes (DSA, JER, NWI etc) have been tried, tested and axed by the airline. Routes Europe would have little to no effect on Flybe's network plans at BHD.

[mart901]

Anyone know why Titan are operating for EI tomorrow?

[EI-BUD]

May be to do with late receipt of a 320, that was due once EZV and EZW left the fleet. Tuesday also op by Titan.

[mart901]

Thanks EI-BUD

[BFS BHD]

Belfast City Airport sold to international investment fund as part of £700m deal - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk (http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/belfast-city-airport-sold-to-international-investment-fund-as-part-of-700m-deal-35778548.html)

[mart901]

Icelandair began offering flights from Belfast | Icelandair (http://www.icelandair.co.uk/news/story/icelandairs-inaugural-flight-left-belfast-today/#utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=belfast_inaugural)

[CaptJ]

Just had a cancellation come though from British Airways.
Looks as if the Winter schedule BHD-LHR has been cut right back.
The fares are through the roof as it is!
Looks as if we'll all be considering the delights of Gatwick from BFS this winter. Or Dublin if making a connection.

[EI-A330-300]

So down o x4 daily and what looks like more sensible schedules between both EI/BA in terms of gaps throughout the day.

There was speculation about BHD-LCY with BA so prehaps it may happen yet.

[DC9_10]

I wouldn't go so far to say it's a sensible schedule with a large gap between 08:50 and 13:05 with two of early departures within 15 minutes of each other and further reductions at weekends.

[BFS watcher]

I wouldn't go so far to say it's a sensible schedule with a large gap between 08:50 and 13:05 with two of early departures within 15 minutes of each other and further reductions at weekends.
Looks like BA down from 38 rotations a week to 26 for the winter. The Easy and Ryanair pressure has finally told on BA.

[Cozy F]

If this is right it is a backward development for Belfast especially on international connections, when Northern Ireland is trying to build greater investment and tourism.


It just seems that IAG are focussing all their effort on Dublin now that BA and Aer Lingus are basically one entity. And the way the air tax system is skewed to favour flights out of Dublin it is hard to blame them for pushing business in that direction.


I wonder just how big an issue the continued burden of two way air passenger duty between Belfast and London, alongside high Heathrow airport charges, has been to forcing these reductions from BA?


Surely if brexit means brexit the UK government has to waken up soon to the continued damage that this policy of negative and uncompetitive taxation is causing?

[EI-BUD]

So a cut by BA from 7 to 4 a day on BHD LHR equates to as much capacity as the BHD LGW EI route had, potentially more depending on aircraft size, ie 319/20 etc. A big hit to BHD, unfortunately.

However, on a commercial basis load factors in the 60%.
'S are not likely to be most attractive in the long run, KLM are picking up good numbers on AMS, and as a guide based on Dublin mix, potentially 70% of them are connecting, potentially at a loss to BA/EI via LHR.

The sheer and amazing growth on LGW ex BFS is bound to be having an impact on the route too, i'm convinced that APD is the cure for all ills , remember if it was removed, BA would likely still have a similar differential in pricing to FR/EZY who serve LGW...

As an aside the pax numbers on bhd lhr would suggest that ei/ba have not picked up the slack for UA's absence on LHR BHD...

[SealinkBF]

I'm curious if BA's "Buy On Board" has an impact on passenger numbers?

[Alteagod]

Tbh I would say yes as people think why bother with BA as all the airlines the same. It was the last bastion of customer feeling wanted. But dont forget BA pulling in the money ex BHD as C class is proving a massive hit. Nearly all flights c class well into double digits and many of these going on in c or f ex LHR

[DC9_10]

But they are obviously not pulling in the money from C class though as the route has been cut severely.

[EI-A330-300]

Looks like BA down from 38 rotations a week to 26 for the winter. The Easy and Ryanair pressure has finally told on BA.

Wasn't 6 not 7 daily before?

[Alteagod]

Last winter's program was a mish mash of timings and frequency. This winter it all makes more sense and the yied per pax from Belfast is one of the highest in the BA network. They fill a market as do EZY BE FR EI and every other airline that operates. BHD has bigger fish to fry just at the moment

[panpanpanpan]

"BHD has bigger fish to fry just at the moment", in what manner? The only fish Harbour has to worry about are the airline ones that just are not biting at all! For Harbour to have a London service to only Heathrow and London City shows just how much they don't chase the leisure market. I personally haven't used Harbour now for a few years for any London trips, business or pleasure, purely because the offering from Aldergrove is much superior in choice of airlines, airports and timings.

The general consensus that I am getting is a feeling that Harbour management has slowly lost its way a bit over the last few years, the entire operation has become stagnant. Its the same old faces and jobs for the boys, theres no fresh skill and talent coming through but rather staff that have been promoted way beyond their ability when things were easy and now its beginning to show. Aldergrove on the other hand have proved that they can attract business which in turn attracts further business and expansion, this appears to be mostly at the expense of Harbour!:eek:

I know the aviation business is a cyclical beast but at the moment Harbour is at the wrong part of the curve.:uhoh:

[DC9_10]

I would have never before have agreed with Pan, however his post is extremely sensible. Very well informed also. Alteagod, it's obvious that the BHD/LHR certainly isn't the golden money pot it was years ago. IAG group load factor not to good across BA/EI. EI using the former Shannon timings which are horrendous. As for yield, I would also suggest this is far from high. As for BA, they are probably back to their old trick of allocation the smallest proportion of through fare to the domestic sector in order to show a loss. If I completely wrong then BA would not be taking a hatchet to their Belfast services.

[BFS watcher]

Not a good month for City, overall down 9%, international looking particularly bad with the exception of AMS.

[cuthere]

May CAA stats
Not a good month for City, overall down 9%, international looking particularly bad with the exception of AMS.

You need a new username.

[Alteagod]

Pointless trying to be positive on hear about BA or post any good or positve points as so many have already made there mind up. I am not permited in an open forum to discuss but shud amyone which to pm me feel free. The world is not just orange nor does it have a golden harp or does it even be purple. It is demoralizing knowing how anti everything this thread has become regarding BHD. Some of us actually work there and enjoy doing so please just give it a rest

[EI-BUD]

Alteagod, I absolutely marvel at how you can possibly come on to this forum and suggest that one of BA's highest yielding routes is BHD. It is laughable. The airline sees no more than 60's in terms of loads, and is almost cutting half the schedule, these indicators do not point to one of the highest performing routes, and as somebody who claims to work at BHD, you are most unlikely to know that kind of information.

As for people being negative on here about BHD, some of it is warranted, sorry to say that. It has come to a point where virtually none of the BFS operators could warrant flying to/from BHD, in terms of operational restrictions, there are too many, it closes too early this making the unit costs of operating a base there impossible, car parking costs are an absolute joke, making holidays from the place unrealistic for anybody who doesn't live reasonably near. At this stage the best they can hope for is to attract a selection of Easyjet flights which could be operated from other bases e.g. CDG, BCN, GVA, PMI - but most unlikely....hence drawing on the BFS competition is not easily accessible.

[A320.b744]

Pointless trying to be positive on hear about BA or post any good or positve points as so many have already made there mind up. I am not permited in an open forum to discuss but shud amyone which to pm me feel free. The world is not just orange nor does it have a golden harp or does it even be purple. It is demoralizing knowing how anti everything this thread has become regarding BHD. Some of us actually work there and enjoy doing so please just give it a rest

If the figures for BHD were positive then everyone would be posting about how wonderful the airport is. However, the facts show that BHD is in decline at a time when other airports are experiencing double digit growth, so quite frankly, the negative comments are completely warranted.

If we have a quick look at Aer Lingus' sun routes from BHD, passenger numbers fell substantially compared with May 2016.

FAO - down 24%
ALC - down 58%
AGP - down 24%
PMI - down 40%

Last May Aer Lingus carried 33,194 passengers on their sun routes - this May they carried only 22,558. If BHD was a lucrative base, they wouldn't have slashed flights.

Meanwhile at BFS, passenger figures for these four routes are up between 22-100% since last May.

In the last year Aer Lingus, Flybe and now British Airways have slashed capacity from BHD - this completely bucks the trend so BHD must be doing something wrong.

The only piece of good news that I can find from the May figures is that AMS numbers are up 22% to 4,383 - that's 71 pax per flight so maybe in the mid to long term we'll see a second daily flight.

Honestly, unless BHD can attract a) several legacy carriers to offer high frequency hub connections, or b) low cost airlines to establish a base at the airport, then BHD's passenger numbers will continue to collapse.

[Jamie2k9]

Maybe because they dropped just under 11,000 seats with less flights.......

[mart901]

You're right Jamie. EI planned in a reduced capacity on every route, not least because FR has appeared on 3 out of 4 of them. Also worth bearing in mind last year EI operated an increased schedule on every route, 9 times a week to FAO and AGP for instance.

Not long ago people were on here calling for the closure of BHD because it was taking all the business from BFS, it's like BHD is doomed in the plane spotters mind whatever it does. Fact is I've used BFS a lot this last while, mainly because of the abundance of cheap flights and its not a bad facility, picking people up from there is an embarrassing experience, the pick up zone is crowded out to a stupid degree, the front of the airport is quite dirty and run down, and really the arrivals hall is yes functional but it too is like something from a by gone era. Compare this to BHD.....

[West Brit]

the front of the airport is quite dirty and run down, and really the arrivals hall is yes functional but it too is like something from a by gone era. Compare this to BHD.....

I have to say, I would never choose to use a particular airport based on architectural merit....

[Startledgrapefruit]

the front of the airport is quite dirty and run down, and really the arrivals hall is yes functional but it too is like something from a by gone era. Compare this to BHD.....

I have to say, I would never choose to use a particular airport based on architectural merit....
The coffee at BHD is better too.

[Pizzacake]

BHD would be well served, if it is to maintain international aspirations by doing something to improve the access by train. Bus access is well served, albeit by having to go into the city centre, but the train halt is just far enough away that people wouldn't think to want to use it. Two city airports I have used recently, Newcastle and Edinbrough both have brilliant public transport links into town without too much faffing about. A halt immediately opposite BHD would do well. I'm from Bangor and the public transport hassle/ higher costs would make me default to BFS for a flight to Spain.
I also suspect many people don't really know about the international destinations from BHD, despite some advertising, but I would say they don't seem to be very well supported with media campaigns and seat sales to raise interest.
A runway extension, despite the objections of the NIMBYs would be a big boon too, allowing a further breadth of destinations to be reached.

[mart901]

Haha whatever. I know and love BFS despite its shabby appearance. I just wonder what people think that land there for the first time from abroad, given they have a choice and so many arrive at DUB

[West Brit]

I just wonder what people think that land there for the first time from abroad, given they have a choice and so many arrive at DUB

"Great, flight over, I survived, I am tired, where is the car hire desk? I am glad I didn't fly into Dublin as I am visiting Northern Ireland which saves me an unnecessary 100 mile journey. Oh and the dollar goes further here."
"what about the airport?". "Hell it was an airport, you know planes, noise and people!"

[Alteagod]

Believe what you want to believe. I nor anyone else will help change your mind in fact before you make up your mind open it first. I know my facts I know the yields and I know the league tables of were the BHD operation fits in that data from BA.

[panpanpanpan]

Forgive me while I reminisce, many many years ago I recall flying from a fledgling Harbour, basically a tin hut in those days! All the staff were employed by Harbour airport and every one knew each other and in many cases were able to do several jobs.

Fast forward a lot of years and the buzz word was "contract out", the staff loyalty slowly disappeared and the operation has continued to grow. The staff all by now employed by a myriad of different companies and the personal touch has gone. From what I am led to believe the same Harbour management structure has been left largely intact, I don't believe there are any direct employees by Harbour anymore, just managers who in a lot of cases know 2 fifths of nothing about the running of an airport - but hey, they are managers and are experts so they know best, right?:ugh: How many of the managers at Harbour have worthwhile aviation experience at a variety of airports? Climbing the corporate ladder at a desk bound office job doesn't count. Doing a degree in some weird and wonderful theory doesn't count. Being promoted because you have connections doesn't count.

Getting business counts. Pushing to expand the current operation counts. Fighting back against untruths in the news counts. Fighting fire with fire rather than saying nothing counts.

I recall when Harbour seemed to be stymied at every turn by Aldergrove objecting to any sign of expansion, Harbours reaction in public at least, was - nothing.

To an outsider like me, Harbours intention seems to be just wait and see. Let Easy and Ryanair and Jet2 all fight at Aldergrove for the same routes. Maybe, just maybe at some stage one of the operators will say enough and come down to Harbour. I still find it astounding that Harbour some years ago had routes to every London airport, they have nearly all gone and don't look likely to be replaced. Where have those passengers gone? My guess is Aldergrove! I stand by previous posts - Harbour is stagnant and will continue to deteriorate unless action is taken, that is something I take no pleasure in saying as I have used this friendly little airport many times over the years but not recently, perhaps the new owners will shake things up a bit - its long overdue! :sad:

[panpanpanpan]

Extract from the Belfast Telegraph business section

Katy Best, commercial and marketing director at George Best Belfast City Airport, said: "Belfast City Airport is enjoying an exciting period, as highlighted by the launch last month of our three-times weekly flight to Reykjavik with Icelandair, which is serving key cities such as Boston, Seattle and Toronto.

"Strategic air connectivity is vital to maintaining the success which Belfast City Airport has enjoyed in recent years and we are confident of continuing to grow our route network.

"While our domestic passenger figures for May 2017 were impacted by the reduction of capacity on Flybe's Liverpool route, we have seen an increase in passengers across a large number of other UK routes.

"Aer Lingus began its popular sunshine routes later than last year and we also lost a significant number of passengers through the cessation of our Brussels flight in March, both of which affected our international figures for the month.

"However, our KLM flight to Amsterdam continues to go from strength-to-strength, enjoying an impressive 22% increase in passenger figures in May."


I'm sure the new bosses can't wait to see how excited Ms Best gets when the figures continue to tank as the year progresses! Commercial and marketing director? Is that the same as spin doctor?:confused:

Unless of course, there is a new deal imminent to recover the passenger demise to date, now that would be worth getting excited about!:hmm:

[BFS watcher]

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/disappointment-at-decision-by-ba-to-reduce-belfast-flights-to-heathrow-35899871.html


The Telgraph has caught up with PPRUNE

[GAZMO]

Aer Lingus ending flights to Alicante and Palma earlier than planned according to BBC website
Does not hold well for next year!!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-40520319

[panpanpanpan]

Wow, the excitement just keeps building! The directors must be in party mood by now!:uhoh:

One point of interest though from the Telegraph article, there are still fares of £16.99 available on Fri 14th July with Ryanair to Gatwick. How sustainable is that in the long run between Ryanair and Easyjet? Would there be a temptation for Easy to move some routes down to Harbour as they did before with Luton? Is this what Harbour are banking on in the long run? So many questions but looks like no quick answers!

[BFS watcher]

Ah the Dubs are at it again....

[Refuellerman]

Wow, the excitement just keeps building! The directors must be in party mood by now!:uhoh:

One point of interest though from the Telegraph article, there are still fares of £16.99 available on Fri 14th July with Ryanair to Gatwick. How sustainable is that in the long run between Ryanair and Easyjet? Would there be a temptation for Easy to move some routes down to Harbour as they did before with Luton? Is this what Harbour are banking on in the long run? So many questions but looks like no quick answers!
The luton service to bhd was nothing to do with cheap flights, it was to do with airport contracts

[True Blue]

I have often seen fares out of Belfast quite cheap just after the 12th. Rush out over. Nothing new in my opinion.

What interests me more is that it is not that long ago we were being told BHD was the airport of choice for many. People had to fly into BHD or they would not come at all. Seems to me that many routes that have transferred from BFS to BHD have then withered on the vine and died. Remember higher yields for airlines out of BHD?

[mart901]

True Blue, various airlines have arrived or increased routes and frequency from BFS this year, also predominantly FR's arriving with very low price fares is what's mostly driving growth at BFS. Nothing has changed geographically, BHD is still on the doorstep for thousands of Belfast residents in comparison to BFS, but price is one of the biggest things which drives people to make a booking. There is multiple airlines both scheduled and charter fighting over the same holiday makers 2 weeks in Spain, EI which grew last year significantly over 2015 this year have met with FR and capacity increases from other airlines too, hence they've suffered - this I'd imagine has little to do with which Belfast airport they are flying from.

[EI-BUD]

Mart,
I think that is the point True Blue is making exactly, it has little to do with which airport you fly from, many on here explained the overwhelming point of difference that BHD over BFS, however, the stats bear out that not to be so true ....

[AerRyan]

Kids fly free from Belfast to Heathrow with British Airways, up to 2 children can fly free with 1 adult!

That's a very very good deal, Heathrow can be a very expensive airport to get to.

[GAZMO]

Looks like FR picking up the mess that EI have left customers in
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-40533982

[OneBellEnd]

Seems like management at BHD will have to pedal quite a bit harder to make the current strategy a success.


The idea of high airline yield which has been trotted out for so long doesn't appear to be happening with BA giving away free seat promotions. It seems that the high yields achievable at London City don't read across to high yields applying at Belfast City.


A trail of airlines - Air Berlin, bmibaby, Vueling, Brussels Airlines, Ryanair, easyJet have all come and gone from BHD in recent years, KLM are stuck on one daily flight while they are growing big-style in Dublin and even Inverness, and now its clear that Aer Lingus and BA are under pressure there too.


Through it all flybe have been the mainstay.


It will be interesting to see how the newly installed owners at BHD look to take the airport forward.

[panpanpanpan]

I agree entirely with the comment regarding the current strategy, thats assuming there is one! Its becoming ever more apparent that it just might not be working in the anticipated manner. The question is what to do about it? Keep going under the illusion that it is simply another part of this exciting time or face reality and come up with a Plan B, quickly!

I wonder what projected figures were presented to the new owners and what will the adjusted ones be.:uhoh:

Perhaps Harbour had become complacent and now Ryanair has arrived and really shaken the market Harbour management might just be regretting the decision not to pursue the runway extension from a few years ago. Its quite ironic that the battle they fought was seats for sale, probably totally unnecessary now!

A runway extension and more realistic opening hours would go a long way to attracting new business, providing of course Aldergrove don't let their pet concerned residents groups of the leash again. Whatever happened to Belfast City Airport Watch? I miss them spouting nonsense on the local news, it was quite entertaining.:}

[True Blue]

And where is the business case for extended runway and opening hours when we have all we need and more, up at Bfs?

[West Brit]

BHD with Port of Belfast backing would make a great urban village. 1000,s of houses, offices etc.

[mart901]

Blah blah blah and BFS would make a lovely set of farmers fields. Grow up. People posting drivel on here know fine rightly there is no way BFS could accommodate the trade of BHD throughout the summer. My wife and I shared a table in BFS the other night with 4 sets of people, none of whom we knew - because there was nowhere else for us or them to sit down. It's tired and tatty in places and desperately needs investment, and I'm a big supporter of it, I'm not knocking it but we need to get real. BHD had its glory years of growth and now BFS is, thanks to FR mostly and other airlines reaction to them.
Fact is BHD is brilliant at what it does, and I have to say on the balance it's a more pleasant experience using it than BFS, the security queues are like a quarter of the length for starters. BE continue to offer high frequency domestic routes and I'm sure they will find the niche with euro routes, maybe regional aircraft operators will be the future.

[EI-A330-300]

Shame to see them ending early but W routes are always a pain for operators. If they are not making money they are not worth it.

The 21.99 rescue fare by FR tells it's own story.

[BFS watcher]

Shame to see them ending early but W routes are always a pain for operators. If they are not making money they are not worth it.

The 21.99 rescue fare by FR tells it's own story. A couple of thousand people left in the lurch by Aer Lingus and you say it is a shame that they ended early. It is an absolute disgrace and it looks like the Consumer Council are going after them. It shows the Aer Lingus arrogance that they think they could take on Easyjet from the "higher yield" City Airport and win! Throw Ryanair and Jet2 in as well and game over.

[mart901]

By that argument then if they were flying from BFS still everything would be well.

[Cozy F]

This is about Aer Lingus and their dalliances with Northern Ireland - not about BFS or BHD.

Presume they must have a load of seats still to sell to Spain this summer out of Dublin with not only a lot less northerners going to DUB, but more and more people from ROI using Belfast as a departure point because of the exchange rate. Solution for Aer Lingus - can your Belfast departures in the height of the season and try to give people already booked with them little choice but to go on their Dublin flights.

It's nothing new. They turned up on Belfast transatlantic services just after the nineties ceasefires in NI and once they were satisfied nothing too challenging was going to happen from Belfast they ran back to Dublin under cover of the 9/11 aftermath.

Then they rocked up in a blaze of glory in 2007 when the DUP and Sinn Fein co-joined to make a go of Government in NI and once the economics turned sour they gradually drew back from that preferring to promote their Dublin flights to NI based customers.

Predictable history is only repeating itself again now. They have no interest in Belfast, unless they feel there is a reason to have a presence here to mind their established market in Dublin.

Given current general uncertainties and dynamics no doubt there'll be further examples of their Hokey Cokey approach yet to come!

[BFS watcher]

By that argument then if they were flying from BFS still everything would be well.
Nothing to do with that at all just Aer Lingus' complete disregard for Northern Ireland.....I have never ever seen a carrier of the "quality" of Aer Lingus just stop early because the route was not performing with only 6 weeks notice. Even you have to see that it is a complete disgrace.

[mart901]

I totally agree on that point yes

[mart901]

I think it's worth remembering it was only ever a matter of time before EI went to BHD, IAG would never have had them operating from both. I'd say next year we'll see FAO and AGP as they seem to be the most popular sunshine routes for EI. On the point of disregard for Northern Ireland I'd say EI have a disregard for anything outside DUB, in the same way as BA have disregard for anything outside London.

[Cozy F]

I don't think IAG had anything Directly to do with Aer Lingus going to BHD in 2012.

Rather BA had just taken over BMi and Aer Lingus already had a relationship / codeshare with BA, thought that BA management would just fold up short haul and hand the Heathrow and Gatwick feed to a 'partner' to monopolise from Edinburgh, Belfast, Manchester, Glasgow .. At that point Aer Lingus were just trying to establish pole position for that day.

BA didn't actually do that, and now five years on, things with BA and EI have progressed another stage.

On your point about disregard outside Dublin, this is exactly why NI air travellers should treat Aer Lingus with considerable cynicism - and for that matter arguably BA too.

They don't have the track record of Flybe, easyJet or Jet2 from Belfast.

[mart901]

In fairness through I know people who have been left high and dry by EZY cancelling routes out of MAN and we all know FR's record in the not too distant past on such matters.

[Cozy F]

Granted, but no one does the will they / won't they lack of respect for Belfast flyers quite so prolifically as AerLingus.

[BFS watcher]

[QUOTE=mart901;9824309]In fairness through I know people who have been left high and dry by EZY cancelling routes out of MAN and we all know FR's record in the not too distant past on such matters.[/QUOTE In general Flybe and Easyjet have been loyal to the Northern Ireland market. As for the 2 carriers from Dublin they treat us with the same level of respect as Shannon Cork and the other regional airports in The Free State. London Airways not much better either!