Hecto pascal below 1000hp

[magpienja]

I wonder are you guys finding it annoying have to use the phrase hectopascal,

Doesn't exactly flow off the tongue.... see the controllers are using it religiously when req but many pilots are leaving it out.

Nick.

[vulcanised]

Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it.

Only heard one pilot use it so far.

[NudgingSteel]

Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it.

You're having a laugh....mostly we tend to prefer complying with the relevant regulation, in order to pass the ongoing R/T sampling and competency assessments that we have!

[Hooligan Bill]

Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it.

Only heard one pilot use it so far.


Too right and the reason why I have filed a number of CA4114s for pilot non-compliance.:8

[ZOOKER]

Interesting to note that The UK Meteorological Office still refer to atmospheric pressure in millibars.
Hooligan, I may be wrong, but I believe CA4114 is an internal NATS form. It isn't mentioned on the internet or in CAP493. Try the modern equivalent of a 1261. I believe it is now called SRG1602.

[eastern wiseguy]

The contents of a CA4114 if they relate to an MOR or require external investigation or input WILL be communicated to the relevant parties.

So other form not required. STAR doncha love it?

[ZOOKER]

vulcanised said:-
"Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it".

Controllers, like most people, like a quiet life.

Controllers also like to ensure, as far as humanly possible, that when it all goes 'tits-up', (and it sometimes does, unfortunately), that they are in the clear.
As Mr. Gunson says "If it's a good bang, at the subsequent court of enquiry, you are the only one there". Great fun, yes it is, and we have all laughed at it.
But when you have been downstairs to 'listen to the tapes', (and most will, at sometime in their careers), there is a very serious side to getting the read-back you require on what, (at the end of the day), is a legal document.

[2 sheds]

I wonder are you guys finding it annoying have to use the phrase hectopascal,

No - why should we? It's only one word (sic - not a phrase) and in practical terms, no longer or annoying than its predecessor. Isn't this the most boring topic ever?

2 s

[Geffen]

The extra syllable is such a pain though :)

[Northerner]

Personally I hate the word Hectopascals. I don't find it as easy to say as millibars, nor do I find it easy to change the habits of 15 years of controlling. But as with others, rules are rules and I don't want to lose my licence by failing checks on something so simple, so I will continue to at least try to say the right thing. Professionalism says that is the least I should do. So far in UK I've not noticed pilots not saying it when required, but all of us seem to avoid it when we can...
Cheers,
Northerner


"Keep smiling... It makes people wonder what you're up to..."

[jackieofalltrades]

I, too, find the use of hectopascals to be more of a mouthful compared to millibars. But, like many other changes that have been introduced to R/T it is one of those things that I will soon get completely used to. And in the not too distant future it's use will be totally natural and I would have all but forgotten what we used to use.

[fisbangwollop]

It's only a mouthful to me because I have been saying millibars for 40 years....I guess in another 40 years it will flow off the tongue quite nicely ..:cool:

[Over+Out]

I have noticed that both ATC and Pilots are not using the term.
If it was not broken, why change it?
Millibars flows, the other word does not. The change is a retro-grade step towards safety.
Does anyone know why it was changed ?

[fwjc]

I understand it has something to do with Europe and in particular, the French.

I dislike using the term, four syllables for a unit seems excessive and we're not even allowed to use hPa as an alternative. That said, I do use it as a pilot and as a/g operator. I agree re safety, but hey ho. Is saying it more or less safe than not specifying units at all? The only reason we use units below 1000 is because of the Americans who might get confused...

[ZOOKER]

Of course, there will be even more opportunities to practice saying 'Hectopascals' when the U.K. transition altitude is raised to 18,000ft. :E

[Talkdownman]

when the U.K. transition altitude is raised to 18,000ft

because of the Americans who might...

...get confused?

[Level bust]

I recently flew into Bordeaux on a Fam Flight, and surprise surprise the French Controllers did not use Heptopascals after the QNH, even though it was below 1000.

Another case of Europe saying we should do this, and we are the only ones that do!

Can we not use our veto?

[rodan]

Surprise surprise, the French didn't do it because, erm, they're not supposed to, it's not ICAO standard to say the units after a pressure below 1000. It's one of the many, many things that we Brits decided to do off our own bat because we think we know best. If the French DID use the units after pressures below 1000, they would say Hectopascals too.

[ZOOKER]

rodan,
"because we think we know best".
Well, over the few short years I have been reading these discussions, there have been a fair few positive comments from our customers, (er, sorry, aircrew), about the quality of the U.K. ATC service.
So we must be doing something right.
Surely, "best practice" deserves to be "rolled out" across the World.
"Global Leader"? - Not Arff!

[2 sheds]

it's not ICAO standard to say the units after a pressure below 1000
That is not quite true - the norm would be to include units but ICAO says that hectopascals (among others) may be omitted "provided that no confusion or ambiguity will result".

2 s

[Hooligan Bill]

The real stupid thing is his name was Blaise not Hector! :confused:

[GAPSTER]

"...because we think we know best ..." ok it's a morning duty so I'll rise to it.Having had numerous Yankee operators down the years read back a pressure setting in inches I see every reason why this was introduced.Check your facts and don't be an arse.

[rich_g85]

I smile every time I hear it on the Bournemouth ATIS, the automated voice almost sounds 'surprised' to be saying it. :)

[dagowly]

The NOTAM about it that said 1mb = exactly 1 Hectopascal. Wonder who got a promotion/raise for changing things for change's sake?

[fwjc]

Hooligan Bill - your observation made me laugh out loud!

[10W]

I blame the French !! ;)

[FinDir]

I personally think we should have at least split the difference and gone for "Hectobars"

[dagowly]

The last aircraft i spoke to before the Christmas break, the pilot read it back 'hectobollocks', kinda summed it up for me.

[chevvron]

At the UK Phraseology Working Group (UKPWG) meeting where this was discussed, it was originally decided (using evidence from other countries) that there would be no requirement to add 'hectopascals' where the pressure was below 1000. Post meeting, one single ANSP reversed their opinion and objected, so now we're lumbered.
NB: Use of the word 'hectopascals' as opposed to 'millibars' is ICAO standard to which the UK filed a 'difference', however, EASA required the UK to comply as it's standard throughout Europe.

[JustaFew]

Think the French may pronounce it, ''ectopascals'...

You back in the seat now, Jim (Hooli Bill)?

[Crazy Voyager]

So maybe if the french start using millibars it would work? :ok:

[ZOOKER]

Ee, I bet they're called 'ectopascles oop in Yorkshire and Lancashire. :ok:

[obwan]

Personally I thought the world had gone mad when aviation got rid of oktas to describe cloud cover. You knew where you were with 8 oktas; scattered, broken and whatever else it is doesn't do it for me. I blame the end of grammar schools and the EEC and lots of other things.

[radarman]

obwan,

Couldn't agree more, especially when Few, Scattered etc are defined with reference to oktas in the first place. Let's dumb down met reports even more: let's have just four visibility states - Excellent, Good, Medium and Poor. :E

[ZOOKER]

radarman,
loving your work. Wx has not been the same since we ditched 'Oktas'. Hey, in a country with an expanding population, let's bring back met observers, you know, people with a genuine interest in the weather. Let's pay them for having an interest in applied physical sciences, rather than simply becoming a footballer, a footballer's wife, 'celebrity' or some pointless, marketing toss-pot.

[obwan]

Would just like to correct Zooker's earlier post. Surely Yaarkshire folk would say byecktopascals.:ok:

[LEGAL TENDER]

it's all about habit. I never worked with oktas and to me FEW SCT BKN and OVC are the norm. It's all I ever knew.
The same thing will happen with hPa.
It's not a big deal, we get paid a decent amount of money to adapt to small changes!

[25 DME FIX]

ZOOKER/LEGAL TENDER

Check out CAP 410 Part A, according to current version of this we haven't changed from either millibars or oktas. Appears that the CAA version of a Quality Management System and Safety Management System is not as robust as they keep telling us ours should be!

[vulcanised]

Sounds to me like something from the sweetshop.

'A quarter of hectopascals please'.

[055166k]

No, you get hectopascals from the chemist...next to cough lozenges. Mealy bars were from the sweet shop!

[buzzc152]

I expected just a small giggle from the Liverpool controller the other day when I read back '3000ft qnh 1005 fruit pastilles'......but I didn't get one.

[Flyboy380]

Of course if you are flying through Father Ted country they are fecktopascals!!

[radarman]

LEGAL,

Nothing wrong with change when it brings genuine improvement or progress, otherwise we'd still be living in mud huts. But change which actually results in less accuracy (oktas to Few etc) or - Heaven forbid - change to fit in with M. Sarkozy's aviateurs ............... :yuk::yuk:

[cct]

BC I expect they have already heard most of the sillies by now

[JustaFew]

I expected just a small giggle from the Liverpool controller the other day when I read back '3000ft qnh 1005 fruit pastilles'......but I didn't get one.

Sorry to hear that, buzz. We usually appreciate a bit of humour on the r/t.
Must have been F-watch on that day...

[Ex Cargo Clown]

The thing is, a hPa isn't even an SI unit, so why are the frog's whinging about it.

You can measure pressure in anyway you want, whether it be in mmHg or, InchesHg or milBar, why make everything so difficult?

[le Pingouin]

Que? The pascal is the SI unit for pressure & hecto is the prefix for 100.

[rodan]

Le Pingouin, you can prove anything you like with "facts", but you're getting in the way of a good old-fashioned froggy-bashing, so kindly get back in your box.