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Hecto pascal below 1000hp

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Hecto pascal below 1000hp

Old 1st Jan 2012, 21:29
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Hecto pascal below 1000hp

I wonder are you guys finding it annoying have to use the phrase hectopascal,

Doesn't exactly flow off the tongue.... see the controllers are using it religiously when req but many pilots are leaving it out.

Nick.
magpienja is offline  
Old 1st Jan 2012, 21:33
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Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it.

Only heard one pilot use it so far.
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Old 1st Jan 2012, 21:37
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Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it.
You're having a laugh....mostly we tend to prefer complying with the relevant regulation, in order to pass the ongoing R/T sampling and competency assessments that we have!
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Old 1st Jan 2012, 21:44
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Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it.

Only heard one pilot use it so far.

Too right and the reason why I have filed a number of CA4114s for pilot non-compliance.
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Old 1st Jan 2012, 21:52
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Interesting to note that The UK Meteorological Office still refer to atmospheric pressure in millibars.
Hooligan, I may be wrong, but I believe CA4114 is an internal NATS form. It isn't mentioned on the internet or in CAP493. Try the modern equivalent of a 1261. I believe it is now called SRG1602.
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Old 1st Jan 2012, 22:00
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The contents of a CA4114 if they relate to an MOR or require external investigation or input WILL be communicated to the relevant parties.

So other form not required. STAR doncha love it?
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Old 1st Jan 2012, 22:10
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vulcanised said:-
"Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it".

Controllers, like most people, like a quiet life.

Controllers also like to ensure, as far as humanly possible, that when it all goes 'tits-up', (and it sometimes does, unfortunately), that they are in the clear.
As Mr. Gunson says "If it's a good bang, at the subsequent court of enquiry, you are the only one there". Great fun, yes it is, and we have all laughed at it.
But when you have been downstairs to 'listen to the tapes', (and most will, at sometime in their careers), there is a very serious side to getting the read-back you require on what, (at the end of the day), is a legal document.
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Old 1st Jan 2012, 23:38
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I wonder are you guys finding it annoying have to use the phrase hectopascal,
No - why should we? It's only one word (sic - not a phrase) and in practical terms, no longer or annoying than its predecessor. Isn't this the most boring topic ever?

2 s
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 08:18
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The extra syllable is such a pain though
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 08:20
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Personally I hate the word Hectopascals. I don't find it as easy to say as millibars, nor do I find it easy to change the habits of 15 years of controlling. But as with others, rules are rules and I don't want to lose my licence by failing checks on something so simple, so I will continue to at least try to say the right thing. Professionalism says that is the least I should do. So far in UK I've not noticed pilots not saying it when required, but all of us seem to avoid it when we can...
Cheers,
Northerner


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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 11:38
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I, too, find the use of hectopascals to be more of a mouthful compared to millibars. But, like many other changes that have been introduced to R/T it is one of those things that I will soon get completely used to. And in the not too distant future it's use will be totally natural and I would have all but forgotten what we used to use.
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 11:44
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It's only a mouthful to me because I have been saying millibars for 40 years....I guess in another 40 years it will flow off the tongue quite nicely ..
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 12:14
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I have noticed that both ATC and Pilots are not using the term.
If it was not broken, why change it?
Millibars flows, the other word does not. The change is a retro-grade step towards safety.
Does anyone know why it was changed ?
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 12:22
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I understand it has something to do with Europe and in particular, the French.

I dislike using the term, four syllables for a unit seems excessive and we're not even allowed to use hPa as an alternative. That said, I do use it as a pilot and as a/g operator. I agree re safety, but hey ho. Is saying it more or less safe than not specifying units at all? The only reason we use units below 1000 is because of the Americans who might get confused...
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 12:41
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Of course, there will be even more opportunities to practice saying 'Hectopascals' when the U.K. transition altitude is raised to 18,000ft.
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 13:40
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Originally Posted by ZOOKER
when the U.K. transition altitude is raised to 18,000ft
Originally Posted by fwjc
because of the Americans who might...
...get confused?
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 16:11
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I recently flew into Bordeaux on a Fam Flight, and surprise surprise the French Controllers did not use Heptopascals after the QNH, even though it was below 1000.

Another case of Europe saying we should do this, and we are the only ones that do!

Can we not use our veto?
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 19:45
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Surprise surprise, the French didn't do it because, erm, they're not supposed to, it's not ICAO standard to say the units after a pressure below 1000. It's one of the many, many things that we Brits decided to do off our own bat because we think we know best. If the French DID use the units after pressures below 1000, they would say Hectopascals too.
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 19:58
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rodan,
"because we think we know best".
Well, over the few short years I have been reading these discussions, there have been a fair few positive comments from our customers, (er, sorry, aircrew), about the quality of the U.K. ATC service.
So we must be doing something right.
Surely, "best practice" deserves to be "rolled out" across the World.
"Global Leader"? - Not Arff!
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Old 2nd Jan 2012, 20:30
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it's not ICAO standard to say the units after a pressure below 1000
That is not quite true - the norm would be to include units but ICAO says that hectopascals (among others) may be omitted "provided that no confusion or ambiguity will result".

2 s
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