Hecto pascal below 1000hp
Thread Starter
Hecto pascal below 1000hp
I wonder are you guys finding it annoying have to use the phrase hectopascal,
Doesn't exactly flow off the tongue.... see the controllers are using it religiously when req but many pilots are leaving it out.
Nick.
Doesn't exactly flow off the tongue.... see the controllers are using it religiously when req but many pilots are leaving it out.
Nick.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Box Hill or Bust
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it.
Only heard one pilot use it so far.
Only heard one pilot use it so far.
Too right and the reason why I have filed a number of CA4114s for pilot non-compliance.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting to note that The UK Meteorological Office still refer to atmospheric pressure in millibars.
Hooligan, I may be wrong, but I believe CA4114 is an internal NATS form. It isn't mentioned on the internet or in CAP493. Try the modern equivalent of a 1261. I believe it is now called SRG1602.
Hooligan, I may be wrong, but I believe CA4114 is an internal NATS form. It isn't mentioned on the internet or in CAP493. Try the modern equivalent of a 1261. I believe it is now called SRG1602.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The contents of a CA4114 if they relate to an MOR or require external investigation or input WILL be communicated to the relevant parties.
So other form not required. STAR doncha love it?
So other form not required. STAR doncha love it?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
vulcanised said:-
"Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it".
Controllers, like most people, like a quiet life.
Controllers also like to ensure, as far as humanly possible, that when it all goes 'tits-up', (and it sometimes does, unfortunately), that they are in the clear.
As Mr. Gunson says "If it's a good bang, at the subsequent court of enquiry, you are the only one there". Great fun, yes it is, and we have all laughed at it.
But when you have been downstairs to 'listen to the tapes', (and most will, at sometime in their careers), there is a very serious side to getting the read-back you require on what, (at the end of the day), is a legal document.
"Controllers seem to love verbiage, so I expect most are enjoying it".
Controllers, like most people, like a quiet life.
Controllers also like to ensure, as far as humanly possible, that when it all goes 'tits-up', (and it sometimes does, unfortunately), that they are in the clear.
As Mr. Gunson says "If it's a good bang, at the subsequent court of enquiry, you are the only one there". Great fun, yes it is, and we have all laughed at it.
But when you have been downstairs to 'listen to the tapes', (and most will, at sometime in their careers), there is a very serious side to getting the read-back you require on what, (at the end of the day), is a legal document.
I wonder are you guys finding it annoying have to use the phrase hectopascal,
2 s
Naughty but Nice
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern England
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally I hate the word Hectopascals. I don't find it as easy to say as millibars, nor do I find it easy to change the habits of 15 years of controlling. But as with others, rules are rules and I don't want to lose my licence by failing checks on something so simple, so I will continue to at least try to say the right thing. Professionalism says that is the least I should do. So far in UK I've not noticed pilots not saying it when required, but all of us seem to avoid it when we can...
Cheers,
Northerner
"Keep smiling... It makes people wonder what you're up to..."
Cheers,
Northerner
"Keep smiling... It makes people wonder what you're up to..."
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I, too, find the use of hectopascals to be more of a mouthful compared to millibars. But, like many other changes that have been introduced to R/T it is one of those things that I will soon get completely used to. And in the not too distant future it's use will be totally natural and I would have all but forgotten what we used to use.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: An ATC centre this side of the moon.
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's only a mouthful to me because I have been saying millibars for 40 years....I guess in another 40 years it will flow off the tongue quite nicely ..
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have noticed that both ATC and Pilots are not using the term.
If it was not broken, why change it?
Millibars flows, the other word does not. The change is a retro-grade step towards safety.
Does anyone know why it was changed ?
If it was not broken, why change it?
Millibars flows, the other word does not. The change is a retro-grade step towards safety.
Does anyone know why it was changed ?
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand it has something to do with Europe and in particular, the French.
I dislike using the term, four syllables for a unit seems excessive and we're not even allowed to use hPa as an alternative. That said, I do use it as a pilot and as a/g operator. I agree re safety, but hey ho. Is saying it more or less safe than not specifying units at all? The only reason we use units below 1000 is because of the Americans who might get confused...
I dislike using the term, four syllables for a unit seems excessive and we're not even allowed to use hPa as an alternative. That said, I do use it as a pilot and as a/g operator. I agree re safety, but hey ho. Is saying it more or less safe than not specifying units at all? The only reason we use units below 1000 is because of the Americans who might get confused...
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the wireless...
Posts: 1,901
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ZOOKER
when the U.K. transition altitude is raised to 18,000ft
Originally Posted by fwjc
because of the Americans who might...
I recently flew into Bordeaux on a Fam Flight, and surprise surprise the French Controllers did not use Heptopascals after the QNH, even though it was below 1000.
Another case of Europe saying we should do this, and we are the only ones that do!
Can we not use our veto?
Another case of Europe saying we should do this, and we are the only ones that do!
Can we not use our veto?
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Around
Posts: 341
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surprise surprise, the French didn't do it because, erm, they're not supposed to, it's not ICAO standard to say the units after a pressure below 1000. It's one of the many, many things that we Brits decided to do off our own bat because we think we know best. If the French DID use the units after pressures below 1000, they would say Hectopascals too.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rodan,
"because we think we know best".
Well, over the few short years I have been reading these discussions, there have been a fair few positive comments from our customers, (er, sorry, aircrew), about the quality of the U.K. ATC service.
So we must be doing something right.
Surely, "best practice" deserves to be "rolled out" across the World.
"Global Leader"? - Not Arff!
"because we think we know best".
Well, over the few short years I have been reading these discussions, there have been a fair few positive comments from our customers, (er, sorry, aircrew), about the quality of the U.K. ATC service.
So we must be doing something right.
Surely, "best practice" deserves to be "rolled out" across the World.
"Global Leader"? - Not Arff!
it's not ICAO standard to say the units after a pressure below 1000
2 s