German Wings A##hole

[gcap]

So I was taxiing out from general aviation at Barcelona this morning (22 Dec)
and having not been there since my Pan Am days, was taxiing slowly so as to not screw up. It was 0845 local, not busy and we were just being cautious when this German Wings a##hole complained about our taxi speed. He was right up our a##. He said that he was having a problem with hot brakes. I've taxied a lot of large airplanes, and the A-319 is not a big plane, so he was just being an a##hole, the hot brake thing just pissed me off. So......if you know anyone at German wings, and can determine who was flying that plane, tell him that GCAP thinks he's an a##hole.
Thank you
Rant over

[dog in park]

Dear santa. Please send more chill pills to pprune members thank you

[captplaystation]

gcap, no doubt you were in the part of the taxyway he had reserved to throw his towel on. . . . road rage has no place in the cockpit.

Merry Xmas :ok:

[BEagle]

gcap - check Contact info: Germanwings call centre (http://www.germanwings.com/en/contact.htm) for the relevant contact number, then ask for the address to which you should refer comments regarding operational malpractice. The sort of bullying to which you refer is wholly unacceptable and prejudicial to flight safety.

It also provides negative advertising for the company, so they need to understand that the incident has been 'circulating the Internet'!

Some years ago I was checking a pilot who was subjected to similar bullying by a local operator (this was in a different continent). Fortunately ATC told the bully to STFU and our flight proceded normally.

[A and C]

Having flown the all electric jet (A320) I can tell you that the idle speed of the engines results in a high taxi speed, if you ride the brakes they will overheat. If you use the correct technique and bring the aircraft almost to a stop and then release the brakes and let the aircraft accelerate and then repeat the process this will keep the brakes cool.

My guess is the guy was not handling the aircraft correctly (and or) he thinks his airline status makes him think all others should get out of his way. Hopefully his fleet manager will invite him for a hats on interview for his attitude alone.

A few months back I went to Barcelona for the first time in years and I was taxing slowly to be sure I was going the correct way, making a small mistake is embarrassing but if that mistake is a runway incursion is deadly, I can't help wondering if this guy would have taken this attitude with me when flying a 737.

[Pilot DAR]

He said that he was having a problem with hot brakes.

So he'd been riding the brakes, and over heated them, and was now complaining that he had to ride the brakes more? Would it not be better to stop, and let them cool for a while? If the brakes are applied to stopped wheels, they don't get hot!

Is riding brakes normal practice on "big" planes? I sure would not tolerate it on little ones!

[A and C]

Slow taxing is OK for small aircraft but it won't work with some jets, the high residual thrust sees to that!

The reason for the excess thrust is usually because the engine idle speed is determined by the minimum speed that the IDG or CSD ( the constant speed drive for the electrical gererators) will keep the generators on line.

I have described the recomended taxing technique above, you have to do this because you can't just taxi slowly without riding the brakes and that results in overheating.

[jxc]

taxiway rage

next time stop your plane get out and abuse the bus driver behind you ?

[mm_flynn]

"Never taxi an aircraft faster than a man can walk"

(I think this was lesson on on my first lesson, how about you?)

:) :)

walking speed - 3 mph
LHR terminal 5 to 27 threshold - 2 miles

taxi time - 40 minutes (clearly with all of the queued aircraft behind you rather than in front )!

[NigelOnDraft]

LHR terminal 5 to 27 threshold - 2 miles

taxi time - 40 minutes Seems to take that normally :ok:

NoD

[KERDUNKER]

Scare bus taxi speed max 30kts. Brakes hot then brake fans on........ I would guess that the aircraft had not been on the ground for long having hammered the brakes on the previous landing (unnecessary with long runway..... bad technique)

[BackPacker]

If you use the correct technique and bring the aircraft almost to a stop and then release the brakes and let the aircraft accelerate and then repeat the process this will keep the brakes cool.

While I appreciate that this is the only technique that leads to a low average taxi speed without overheating the brakes, I can also imagine that the passengers don't really enjoy this endless accellerate/brake cycle. Let alone the cabin crew trying to do the safety brief at that time.

I can imagine it's much more comfortable for everybody involved just to let the aircraft taxi at whatever speed the idle thrust delivers. Until that speed is too high for whatever turn you need to make, or confined area you need to enter, at which point you brake.

So I can understand the frustration of the Airbus crew when they ended up behind a slow GA plane. That they vented it via the radio is perhaps a bit unprofessional, but their frustration, IMO, is justified. Was there really no intersection that you could have entered to let them pass, or something like that?

"Never taxi an aircraft faster than a man can walk"

Apparently a lot of pilots don't think like that at all. Otherwise this NOTAM would not have been necessary:

EHRD(ROTTERDAM/ROTTERDAM)
AGA B)01 AUG 2011 08:59 UTC C)PERM (A0770/11)
E) CAUTION ADVISED DURING TAXIING ON APRONS, INCLUDING TWY N AND Y.
MAX SPEED 15KT.

On a related note, are there any official/legal guidelines as to taxi speed limits? Walking pace is obviously too slow if you have to taxi along a 3km runway, down a straight taxiway with no intersections. But on the other hand, at Tempelhof I've had to follow a follow-me car straight across the apron at Vs or thereabouts. Makes you pay attention to stick positions...:eek:

[dublinpilot]

On a related note, are there any official/legal guidelines as to taxi speed limits? Walking pace is obviously too slow if you have to taxi along a 3km runway, down a straight taxiway with no intersections. But on the other hand, at Tempelhof I've had to follow a follow-me car straight across the apron at Vs or thereabouts. Makes you pay attention to stick positions...

Why did you have to follow him so fast? Couldn't you just slow down if you needed to?

[Denti]

The braking technique described by A and C is the same on the 737 so i guess boeing and airbus agree at least on that piece of operating a jet, or my company did try to get the same SOPs on all fleets which is of course possible.

However accelerating to the max recommended taxi speed of 30 kts and then smoothly braking almost to a stand still and then accelerating again is only possible if there is no one in front. If there is the a slow moving aircraft in front the acceleration intervall between braking becomes so short that it is pretty much the same as riding the brakes. Therefore extremely slow aircraft can be a real issue.

It would have been more professional of course to ask ATC for a way to overtake the slowpoke instead of venting like that. Even though BCN is pretty simple to taxi along if you made yourself familiar with the airport beforehand. An moving airport diagram with your own position of course helps in situational awareness but is not really needed.

[scotbill]

Amazing lack of understanding of the problems of commercial aviation shown on this thread. Most European flights have a slot time to make - with the consequent risk of a delay measured in hours if it is missed. And, yes, sometimes it needs 30mph.
Quite frankly some of you sound like those who sit in the overtaking lane of motorways secure in the knowledge that you are doing close to the legal limit - so no-one has any right to attempt to overtake you.

[BackPacker]

Why did you have to follow him so fast? Couldn't you just slow down if you needed to?

I did, otherwise I would have taken off... But it was an ILAFFT moment for me anyway.

[Sir George Cayley]

Another way of managing brake temps is asymmetric braking. Standard SOP on the B777.

Also, looking at the plate there are some parallel taxiways and lots of opportunities for intersection take offs.

gcap, were you cleared to taxi to the full length runway link and was your route next to a parallel? Does your a/c require the full length or could you have asked for/accepted an intersection take of?


SGC

[A and C]

Quote:- Amazing lack of understanding of the problems of commercial aviation shown on this thread. Most European flights have a slot time to make - with the consequent risk of a delay measured in hours if it is missed

If an aircraft has a tight slot it is normal practice for ATC to get that aircraft to the holding point ASAP, a slow taxing aircraft can usualy be moved out of the way.

I have found when flying light aircraft around southern europe that some in commercial aviation have a "me first Im in a big jet" attitude and question controllers commands, this is usualy when the light aircraft gets a line up clearance ahead of jet (usualy the reason is that ATC can get the light aircraft away & clear of the jet climb out between jet movments.).

Seeing the whole plot from both sides is interesting, why did I get treated like a numpty by a guy a UK charter jet at Corfu ? You would think that you might get some respect in a UK registered SEP that far from home..........A real pity that after his outburst about about me being cleared to the hold before him he took three attempts to get the ATC clearance read back correct.

[mrmum]

Had a similar experience myself at Prestwick, student managed to land REALLY long on RWY31, so had to taxi all the way back down the parallel TWY R to the GA apron E. Ryanair called up for taxi and wanted RWY13 for departure (surprise:rolleyes:), refused by ATC, as the rest of the world was using the other end, so had to follow us all the way down Romeo, had a couple of whinges about taxi speed as we went. Must just be low-cost drivers thinking about their bonus. ;)

[GeeWhizz]

Amazing lack of understanding of the problems of commercial aviation shown on this thread.

This is a Private Flying forum containing contributors from ab initio's all the way through to highly experienced C/ATPLs. But for most here commercial ops do not matter a monkeys. I think generally the GA community fare rather well with understanding the needs and priorities of the airlines as such like. Although...

...I think it'd be a fair shout to offer the larger carrier in front on one condition: that doing so wouldn't delay either departure (SEP incurring personal costs?). There are many options as previously mentioned above. As for the RT outburst, it's disgusting that anyone should have to encounter with this, especially from the professionals. The child in me would want to bite back and Captain Balls sat in the LHS would soon hear how intolerant I am of this :mad:

[scotbill]

Must just be low-cost drivers thinking about their bonus.It's interesting that some of you seem to see this as some sort of pilot contest. I'm no defender of Ryanair but think it's most unlikely the Ryanair pilot is going to get any kind of bonus but in fact has several sectors to complete on a very tight schedule.

Does it occur to any of you that you may be delaying a couple of hundred+ passengers? Several hundred if the knock-on effect of a missed slot means that the whole integration for the day goes down the tubes.

We are used to the aviation ignorance of the travelling public but it is rather worrying if those involved in a professional capacity have so little understanding of the other guy's problems.

[mrmum]

scotbill,

What I actually said was this;
Must just be low-cost drivers thinking about their bonus. ;)
Note the smiley on the end, if you're going to quote me, please do so properly and ideally in context. That comment was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek, hence the "wink".
In my particular instance, as we'd passed the last opportunity to pull-off and let the B737 by, we did speed up as much as we safely could. It didn't really bother me too much at the time, although I did think their attitude was bad. They could have politely asked if the light aircraft ahead could speed up if it was causing them a problem, but no, we got some arsey complaining. We did use it as a learning point for the student, not to be pressured into doing things they're not comfortable with due to ability and/or experience, I only mentioned it now as it's relevant to the OPs situation.

[His dudeness]

So this guy turns up in Barcelona and has not done his homework, aka looked up the jeppcharts etc and then thinks its his right to crawl on the apron at turtle speed?

Gimme a break, these guys are used as examples why GA shouldn´t be allowed to go places like Barcelona. Which is quite easy to taxi on btw. out of GA parking, right turn, parallel to 25 R until the end , 2 left turns until past the new terminal then right again and then left towards the head of 25L.

Not exactly rocket science.

And the weather was just fine:

LEBL 221000Z 33011KT 280V010 CAVOK 16/08 Q1025 NOSIG
LEBL 220900Z 32008KT 300V360 CAVOK 14/08 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220830Z 33011KT 300V010 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220800Z 32007KT 290V350 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220730Z 33006KT 290V360 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1024 NOSIG
LEBL 220700Z 31009KT 280V360 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1023 NOSIG
LEBL 220630Z 32007KT 290V350 9999 FEW025 13/07 Q1023 NOSIG

So, you forgot your halfframes or what?

A real big airplanes pilot as you claim to have been would tell ATC/Ground when lost on the field....you did not, did you?

[A and C]

I beg to differ about Barcelona, The place is not easy the first time you see it even after 30 min in the cruise looking at the Jepps.

A few years back in Detroit an aircraft took a wrong turn, the result was it entered runway and was hit by another aircraft traveling at high speed.

This guy taxing slowly was taking care NOT to make a mistake that could put people at risk, giving out over the radio is only likely to put undue pressure on someone and make them more likely to make a mistake.

I was once in the area of Kefalinia/Zakinthos area under procedural control, the pilot of a UK registered charter aircraft was continualy getting on at the controller for decsent. I was 1000ft below this guy going head to head and looking for a climb. Eventualy due to a high workload and persitent calls from the pilot the controler cleared the aircraft down!..................This was directly into my path.

I dont blame the controler for the mistake he was overloaded into making it by a guy who acted like he was the only aircraft in the sky.

Im sorry to say this your Dudeness I and a lot of other people know we make mistakes and so take a little time to ensure we avoid as many mistakes as we can, unfortunatly people like you who clearly don't make mistakes will just have to slow down for the rest of us.

[scotbill]

mrmum

Think the irony was a probably a bit subtle for most of the posters on here but to be fair my comment was aimed more at the previous oxymoron:But for most here commercial ops do not matter a monkeys. I think generally the GA community fare rather well with understanding the needs and priorities of the airlines as such like. Although...How many GA pilots are aware -

That a commercial jet uses hundreds of kilos of fuel just to get to the holding point - even more if held up on the way?

That if the brakes heat up due to unnecessary braking it can be to the severe detriment of stopping ability in the event of an abandoned T/O close to VI?

Would have thought those might be important learning points for any student.

[Jan Olieslagers]

How many GA pilots are aware -Disclaimer: flying a microlight, I am generally disallowed to use controlled aerodromes like most airports are. So I do not know really, neither from experience nor from training. Still, it would seem to me that whatever knowledge or insight the g/a pilot in this story had available, could and would not change the story. Both planes were under control, from the ground controller I suppose; complaints were to be sent there, and if considered serious enough might lead the ground controller to instruct the g/a pilot to make way.

Would anyone expect the "crawler" to stop dead on the twy? Or take a turn into whatever sideground happened to show up, unannounced and uninstructed? Or should it have sounded "Barcelona Ground, alfa delta echo request taxiway excursion to evade Fritz pursuit?"

If the ground controller was happy, the airliner crew may have had reason for being unhappy; but I can't see their right to grumble, least of all to a fellow pilot trying her/his best.

@o/p: if we have saved you the bother and expense of a visit to any kind of doctor, by allowing you to vent your anger here, you could as well spend the quid with a round of drink at one of our numerous meetings. You will still have saved the bother.

[jollyrog]

I will always do my best to conduct my flight or taxying with consideration for other pilots. But, if I'm not able to, for whatever reason - technical, safety, limit of ability, the outcome is just tough.

We all have an equal right to be there.

[GeeWhizz]

I'm sure that most GA pilots are aware of some of the impacts of delays on commercial flights. But it's whether those pilots care about those impacts. It's not too difficult to find GA types who will gladly 'get in the way' just because they can. Thankfully I'm not one of these by the way :p

Safety is of course number 1 priority in all manners of aircraft operation, and it is true that if someone has an issue with proceedings, it should be dealt with by contacting the controlling agency not directly to the offending aircraft. In this sense the slower aircraft would simply be following instructions, perhaps oblivious of the proximity of the monster up his chuff. Reminds me of the old BT slogan: it's good to talk!

Well said Jollyrog! :D

[scotbill]

We all have an equal right to be there. Which is exactly the sort of attitude that makes some GA pilots unwelcome at busy airports.
And I say that as one who has spent hundreds of happy hours in little aeroplanes as well as Her Majesty's fleet. Some understanding of the other guy's problems makes for an easier life for all.

While I don't condone the pilot of a commercial jet making an issue of his displeasure on the R/T, how else is it to be made clear to some occasional visitor anxious to brandish his civil rights that he is being the proverbial ache in the fundament?
Obviously some of you have little concept of the time pressures many short haul commercial pilots operate under. Do you really think you should have equal status with a large jet with a slot time for take off?

[rmac]

Reminds me of the time that I was on a 5 mile final at Bratislava in a puddle jumper and the controller asked me of if I could speed up for following traffic....to which I replied that I am on glideslope with 100% power ......

Or may be it was on the ILS in to Penang and the controller asked me to do a 360 in IMC so that the following commercial traffic could "overtake", obviously in "complete safety".

Sometimes we would like to get out of the way of the commercial traffic, but its either technically impossible or unsafe to do so....not because we are small minded numpties ;)

[dublinpilot]

While I don't condone the pilot of a commercial jet making an issue of his displeasure on the R/T, how else is it to be made clear to some occasional visitor anxious to brandish his civil rights that he is being the proverbial ache in the fundament?


By asking ground control if there is an alternative route that he can take to avoid the slow taxiing light aircraft ahead.

Obviously some of you have little concept of the time pressures many short haul commercial pilots operate under. Do you really think you should have equal status with a large jet with a slot time for take off?
Erm...yes. In fact it's written into MATS that all aicraft on a flight plan following a recognised route have equal priority. VFR/IFR Light/Heavy doesn't come into it.

By the way the original post is about Barcelona. I believe that VFR isn't allowed into Barcelona, so this must have been an IFR flight. It too may have had a slot time.

As for beling late for the slot giving you priority, that's a bit like saying that the queue of traffic ahead of you at the traffic lights should get out of the way because you are late for a meeting.

Either operate faster next time, or have more realistic gaps between the slots.

Having said that, I've never refused to give way to someone who had was in a rush, and have often offered to give up my landing or take off place in the queue to help out someone else.

But in this case it appears that the pilot was the cause of the our overheating problems by using the wrong taxiing technique, and the cause of their own delay problems by using the wrong technique for getting ahead of the other aircraft.

Still, I have to wonder about the OP, if he got so worked up about it, that the anger is still there long after he landed again. Live and let live.

[Big Pistons Forever]

gcap

When you operate at big airports you have to be able to fit in or IMO you should not be there. Part of fitting in is not unnecessarily impeding other traffic, that is just good airmanship. Crawling along at a slow speed on the principal taxiway with a jet behind you is not IMO acceptable. If I was in the GermanWings AirBus I most definitely would have politely but firmly indicated that your low taxi speed was causing me a problem and that I needed you to speed up.

Bottom line was the German Wings pilot was indeed an A**hole for being rude on the radio and you exhibited poor situational awareness and poor airmanship by unnecessarily holding up operations at a major airport

Not a great day for either of you......

[His dudeness]

Im sorry to say this your Dudeness I and a lot of other people know we make mistakes and so take a little time to ensure we avoid as many mistakes as we can, unfortunatly people like you who clearly don't make mistakes will just have to slow down for the rest of us.

I don´t make mistakes? Yeah, sure.

Astonishing what you are able to read out of my post...

My point is: if you have doubts about your whereabouts and/or where to go, you ask ground control, you don´t just go slow on a major airport with loads of traffic.

Thats what I would have done. Plus I added the weather - which was fair - and commented on the fact that IMO LEBL taxi isn´t really that complicated when going out of the GA area. I have been there in the last 5 years maybe 6 times, so I´m not a regular I´d say.

To know roughly how to taxi is part of my flight preparation (10Ps &10-9ers- look at em, easily done in 5 minutes) Is that to much to ask?

[His dudeness]

So I was taxiing out from general aviation at Barcelona this morning (22 Dec)
and having not been there since my Pan Am days, was taxiing slowly so as to not screw up. It was 0845 local, not busy and we were just being cautious when this German Wings a##hole complained about our taxi speed. He was right up our a##. He said that he was having a problem with hot brakes. I've taxied a lot of large airplanes, and the A-319 is not a big plane, so he was just being an a##hole, the hot brake thing just pissed me off. So......if you know anyone at German wings, and can determine who was flying that plane, tell him that GCAP thinks he's an a##hole.

So, BPF, where exactly can you find rudeness in the Germanwings R/T? He 'complained' and said why he did so 'having a problem with hot brakes'.

Now a lot of people on here jump to conclusion thinking: a german, he had to be rude - cause he is a german - and bought the perspective of the american(? PanAm...) superhero pilot that was lost on taxiing his airplane around, but elected not to tell anyone, instead crawled on the twy...

An A319 is not a big airplane says the superhero and he - naturally - has taxied around bigger ones. Yawn. He naturally can see the brake temp of the airplane taxiing behind him. And he is pissed off after being a moving barracade at a major airport....

What happens during LVPs with people showing such attitudes as GCAP has?

They just taxi as they please? (now I´m jumping to a conclusion...)

BTW, I don´t care at all about GermanWings (which is a LH company).

[SkyHawk-N]

Reminds me of the time I had to taxi a 172 to the end of a 10,000ft runway. A short distance along I heard a really loud noise, looked around and saw that I was being closely followed by three ANG C-130s in a hurry. I suggested I pull over on the next available taxiway and let them pass, everyone agreed, they thanked me for doing so and everyone was happy.

[Jan Olieslagers]

superhero pilot that was lost on taxiingWhere was that stated? What did I miss?

[ShyTorque]

So many so angry about something all now in the past!
How professionally suited are these angry pilots? If they can get so worked up about something like this on the ground, which should have been sorted out with grace and good humour, how good are they under pressure in the air?

[AN2 Driver]

Gimme a break, these guys are used as examples why GA shouldn´t be allowed to go places like Barcelona.

Oh, ok, no GA at all the larger airports? Just because one GA pilot complains about the attitude of a so called professional?

Now, dear sir, you give me a break.

First of all, we do not know what kind of aircraft that was, but seeing that BCN is not VFR allowed, he was probably IFR and seeing that he posts from the US, I'd guess it was a biz jet. Banning all these from airports like BCN is not really a sensible thing to do, usually this kind of traffic means people with quite serious business in the places they fly to.

Secondly, it appears to me like the attitude of some of these so called professionals vs GA. Some of it may be justified if small GA pilots who are not up to speed screw up at large airports. Most of it isn't, but is utter "mine is bigger" behaviour.

Seen it happen many times that airline pilots file reports because they "had to wait" in front of the runway "because of a small **** landing/taking off!" against ATC. Well, ATC is not that stupid normally. But if they have not got the release for the airliner yet, why the hell not let a VFR out if the big guy has to wait anyhow? Or a small IFR who has to depart to the west if the airliner going to the east is not released?

I've been saying it quite outspokenly here at meetings many times, and I won't sit here quietly either. There IS space for everyone IF aviators around the world finally stop working against each other and give each other a bit of leeway rather than p!## every time you THINK someone steals your cheese. There is enough anti aviation folk out there which will take our freedoms slice by slice without fellow aviators trying to ban each other from what they presume their turf.

As far as German Wings are concerned, not had my own experience with them on the tarmac so far, but had some primadonna PIC behave not unlike this in a forum I frequent, to the point where we had to lock the guy out. Arrogance without end, ego larger than most people who fly much larger airplanes and don't need to show that they also "belong" in the big league.

Best regards
AN2 driver

[Big Pistons Forever]

So, BPF, where exactly can you find rudeness in the Germanwings R/T? He 'complained' and said why he did so 'having a problem with hot brakes'.


I wasn't there, so obviously I don't know, however if the Germanwings pilot was polite and professional I doubt gcap would have made a point of venting on this forum................

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Anyone been behind an Air France when they're on a go slow? Now that is properly slow taxying!

[Final 3 Greens]

Without commenting on this particular example, when mixing with 'big iron' on the ground, I've normally tried to give way and let them get in front.

They have 2 crew, fly as a day job, are fast at what they do and appreciate the courtesy.

And I'd rather have them in front of me, so I can take my time on the checks, as I'm all by my lonesome.

[silverknapper]

Remember if you are incapable of reading a taxi chart or taxiing at more than 5 knots it's less of a problem if you call the tower by telephone before you go. They will no doubt appreciate the warning and can plan around your lack of preparation/ increased caution by keeping you out of the way and giving you a follow me. I'm a big proponent of careful taxiing, avoiding runway incursions etc. but as BPF says if you want to mix it at major airports you must raise your game to a higher standard. If you can't then build your experience gradually.
As for having 'as much of a right to be there' I respectfully disagree. Let's use Prestwick as an example. If I were Ryanair I would feel justified in expecting priority over a 150 on a bacon roll run. They do after all make a substantial contribution to the operation of the airfield. One which depends on their success in factors like on time performance, keeping cost down etc.

Now if someone would tell Iberia and Spanair the same..............

[NazgulAir]

Reminds me of a time years ago. At Athens airport in a PA28-180, I was ready to depart and waiting at the hold for clearance to line up, when there was a big noise behind us getting louder and louder, obviously a large jet, sounding as if it was about to run us over.
I squeezed to the side, there was just enough room. As it passed I saw a hand waving in the cockpit side window, and the pilot thanked me courteously.

It was really a matter of course. He was on a schedule, I wasn't. Every minute he waited cost a lot more money than my delay. I wouldn't dream of insisting to go first!

At the time Athens didn't really know what to do with GA aircraft, we were told to join downwind in between a DC10 and a B747 as if we could keep up with them, and there was no way to go to Airside after clearing customs without going through one of the gate funnels. Hopefully things have improved a bit since then... "can you expedite?" when I was already barreling along at full throttle trying to figure out when/where I could lose enough speed to land... if ever.:rolleyes:

[mary meagher]

May as well cheer you all up with my embarassing moment in the Emerald Isle....
I was flying my Piper Supercub from near Banbury to Fermoyle. In stages.
Overnight at Sutton Bank, then on to Newtonard, then to Sligo, overnight again, and the last leg my turn (I was taking turns PIC with a friend). The radio had been erratic, and despite the chaps in Newtonard having "fixed" it, was still dodgy. Noticing while doing some local sightseeing over the Slieve Misch mountains, that there was quite a bit of turbulence - camera floating upwards, pilots floating upwards, etc, I asked Fermoyle - otherwise at the time known as KERRY INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT - for the wind speed and direction.

"That will be ten knots out of the north, to be sure to be sure" replied the ATC, over the crackling static. As the cross wind limiting speed of a Superecub is 10 miles an hour, I thought no problem. "And Supercub Echo Romeo," the controller went on to say, "You are number one for Zero Nine, and Aer Lingus 737, you are number two behind the Supercub.....!"

Well, I knew my duty in this situation, forget about using the flaps, keep pedalling as fast as possible, 90 miles an hour, and hope the 737 stalling speed wouldn't be a problem for the Boeing! I crabbed in nicely, and just as I touched down on the narrow tarmac, from behind the terminal buildings (the EEC had given them quite a substantial grant for improvements, a new runway was actually under construction) there was a terrific gust from my left.

Down to walking pace by now, with the tail down already, the Cub decided to depart the paved area and head for a nice lawn on the right. When a taildragger decides to groundloop, there's not a lot you can do except DON'T use the wheelbrakes, and wait. Trouble is, it wasn't a lawn, it was a swamp!
And just like Alcock and Brown, we ended ass end up in an Irish bog.

When my fellow pilot saw the avgas dripping out of the wings, he had no trouble whatsoever exiting the back seat, he hit the ground running full tilt.
The Kerry Fire Brigade was there in no time, hoses at the ready! I turned off the switches, descended, and said "Don't squirt, please! There's no fire!"
They helped to push us off the active to the apron, and checked the runway for any bits that might have dropped off.....meanwhile, Aer Lingus, full of wondering American Tourists, was going around and around. It was, after all, the only scheduled aircraft a day to visit Kerry. When eventually permitted to land, they all climbed down the step with cameras at the ready. I was too mortified to pose. And the Airport Manager said I would have to be interviewed by the police. Waiting in the office for a couple of hours, at last the Guarda showed up, notebook at the ready.

"How many killed in the accident?" None, actually.
"Injured?" None, to be sure.
"Any damage at all?" None. (that was true! Very soft bog!)
"Well" said the officer, snapping his notebook shut with a flourish,"I don't have to make a report then!"

I never heard anything from Aer Lingus either.......

[500 above]

Nice story Mary. Maybe better for all involved to let the paraffin budgie land first in those scenarios, however. Only scheduled arrival and holding for a cub does not give small g/a a great reputation! (I see this argument from both sides of the fence)

Only last week I was told to hold on a taxiway (in a medium Bizjet) as the Aegean airbus (who had no slot) cut in front at a Mediterranean International airport. ATC simply said airlines had priority...We had a slot, that's poor ATC planning and conduct in my opinion.

[ChampChump]

Ooooh, brave post, Mary. As a fellow tailwheelerist, I empathise.

I hope the intervening time has reduced the embarrassment quotient.

[Keef]

I had something similar going into Annecy a couple of years ago. We were arriving from the west, crossing the valley to join downwind left hand.

A French "airliner" (small) was taxying out to take off, and the pilot demanded that ATC should keep the "little aeroplane" out of the way until he had taken off and cleared the area. I ignored his request (it wasn't to me), as did ATC. He got a little hotter, by which time I was level with the upwind threshold and called "downwind". He was then cleared to go, and went. If we delayed him at all (which I doubt), it was for less than a minute.

When we got into the terminal, we were met by a grinning ATPL, well-festooned in gold braid, who had been listening to it all. He told me about this pilot's reputation - apparently he requires a completely clear sky before he's happy to take off, and the performance we witnessed is a regular feature.

Had we both been on the ground, I'd have given way to him gladly.

[ft]

Slow taxying airplane ahead + hot brakes = a problem ATC may, or may not, be able to help resolve. Hence, completely appropriate to inform ATC that the slow taxying airplane is a problem. Now, we do not know the wording used, so we can't call foul.

Had I been in the GA plane, the next call would have have been "tower, spamcan 123, feel free to give me a detour to let the jet pass". Less dead dinosaurs burnt, less people delayed and I'm usually on a less tight schedule. I won't miss a connection if I'm off the ground three minutes later.

Way I see it, right of way is there to use if you need it. Otherwise, maximize the common good. In aviation and in traffic. Obviously while being courteous and professional.

Once taxied a C172 down the entire length of the 2.5 km runway, behind the mowing tractor who wasn't interested in leaving way, moving at walking pace - while a company (turbine) aircraft was holding for landing following a PC. An unique opportunity to get called a "magneto pram" (freely translated) over the R/T... :p

[His dudeness]

Gimme a break, these guys are used as examples why GA shouldn´t be allowed to go places like Barcelona.
Oh, ok, no GA at all the larger airports? Just because one GA pilot complains about the attitude of a so called professional?

Now, dear sir, you give me a break.

AN2 Driver, you just misinterpret what I want to say. I´m a GA pilot myself. (I fly KingAirs, CJs and Sovereigns).

No GA on larger airports is on the agenda of almost everybody: airlines, airports and the EU, namely Mr.Siim Kallas, EU Commissioner for Transport who wants to get rid of GA - GA of any size - on bigger European airports in order to maximize the amount of passengers. This goes on unnoticed by most of GA pilots and their organizations. The EBAA itself has written a letter to Kallas that very carefully details that we don´t want to 'intrude' into airlines territory...instead of telling this guy that we demand our right to operate there....
Many airports are already more or less non GA territory.

People like the TO will be used as examples why GA has to excluded from hubs. That is what I said and nothing else. Where in my post you find that I´m for a ban of GA at large airports remains your secret.

ATC simply said airlines had priority...We had a slot, that's poor ATC planning and conduct in my opinion.

500above, report that behavior. Only way to change it.

[mad_jock]

Its not just german wings that can be a bit fly with this.

BA can do very slow taxi speeds so they can get the cabin secure and loadsheet in and can be very tatical blocking intersections until they are ready to go.

Once got swung off behind them after calling ready at mid point, to back track. Asked to expidite so gave it some and the BA started over taking from intially doing 6knt taxi with us behind them on the taxiway. When the FO called airspeed alive I backed off. They got to the hold before we turned and started bitching they want to go due slot. Didn't work mind

[500 above]

BA can do very slow taxi speeds so they can get the cabin secure and loadsheet in and can be very tatical blocking intersections until they are ready to go.

Reminds me of the old chestnut "could the slow bird please speed up!"