SOUTHAMPTON

[SWBKCB]

the C series is the answer and Volotea seem like the perfect customer

I'm sure they will both welcome your investment! :ok:

[EK77WNCL]

I'd have thought the A319 (and probably A320) would be good for anything up to 3/3.5 hours from Southampton, which puts the Balearics, Spain, Portugal and the Ionian islands within reach. Cseries would open up the canaries and Cyprus.

Maybe easyjet will get their act together!

[Flitefone]

I'd have thought the A319 (and probably A320) would be good for anything up to 3/3.5 hours from Southampton, which puts the Balearics, Spain, Portugal and the Ionian islands within reach. Cseries would open up the canaries and Cyprus.

Maybe easyjet will get their act together!

EZY is upgrading their fleet, 156 seat A319 are progressively being replaced by 186 seat A320, which in turn are being up sized to 235 A321neo, it's all about cost per seat. Corporate and fleet strategy here: http://corporate.easyjet.com/~/media/Files/E/Easyjet/pdf/investors/results-centre/2017/easyjet-h1-2017-results-presentation.pdf

See slide 13 for fleet plans to 2021. A319 no longer has the economics needed.

FF

[inOban]

The only way a smaller frame would be viable is if the route is largely a business route with PAX prepared to pay flexible fares.

But the problem with standardising on larger frames is, how to you start a new route? FR seem quite happy to operate just twice a week, which is useless for business so the route will never grow.

[stewyb]

Runway starter strip to the northern end and larger stand capability and I am very confident that the airlines would come to SOU!

[SOUSpotter96]

Runway starter strip to the northern end and larger stand capability and I am very confident that the airlines would come to SOU! with this in mind if you foresaw that happening with airlines coming in, the terminal would definitely need an upgrade in size, it can be quite crowded as it is.

[Wycombe]

Pleasureable trip through SOU yesterday to GCI and back, noted how busy (but not uncomfortably so) it was in the Terminal at around 0700-0730, with "holiday" pax as well as the usual business-trippers like myself.

Started and taxied-out bang on time (BI ATR72), then sat at hold for a prior departure and 2 arrivals (about 10 mins). This is where SOU's shortcomings come to light.

On arrival back around 1700, off aircraft and into car leaving the Airport within 10 mins.....which is what I like about the SOU experience (Short Term Car Parking very expensive though...glad I'm not paying!)

[MARKEYD]

Looks like " LoLo flights " have cried off from operating any winter flights to the Canaries but have now said they are negotiating a series of flights to operate to the Med for next summer from Southampton

Again remains to be seen if this actually happens but with the distinct reality that FLYBE are not returning next summer to operate the Med flights there does leave a gap now

[Buster the Bear]

More FlyLoLo info here http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/282322/paul-dendles-flylolo-returns-with-credible-business-model

[RW20]

Buster the Bear
It's difficult to imagine what aircraft could be used on such routes from Southampton given the distance of the destinations mentioned.Its the same old chestnut that has dogged the airport for many years,that is to say too short runway and lack of stand space for further away Mediterranean destinations.As many have said before,unless these restricting issues are addressed,then expect little Sun route development.

[GCILover]

If they manage to find a carrier with spare E190's there would be no issue. They fly out of LCY direct to Greece

[Rivet Joint]

Does anyone know why KLM have dropped to one flight a day? I would be surprised if they were not doing well on the route regardless of BE.

[stewyb]

looks like down to 1 a day during school holidays, back up to 2 at the start of September:ok:

[AirGuru]

Something new to be announced tomorrow.

[stewyb]

Winter sun routes possibly?

[AirGuru]

Winter sun routes possibly?

A bit late to announce Winter Sun routes isn't it ?

[stewyb]

Tell us more then!

[Flightrider]

easyJet SOU-GVA 3 x weekly for the winter?

[LAX_LHR]

Correct.

U21315/1316 Tue/Thu/Sun

[AirGuru]

That's the one.

[LAX_LHR]

U21315 GVA 0730 SOU 0815
U21316 SOU 0900 GVA 1130

Tue/Thu

U21315 GVA 0900 SOU 0945
U21316 SOU 1025 GVA 1305

Sun.

Starts 14th Dec until 22nd March.

[Rivet Joint]

Bit strange that the summer holidays has any bearing on their schedule? Still lots of Asian students doing summer courses plus Amaterdam must have a big leisure take up for the holiday season? People still do business over the summer last time I checked.

Great news if the EZY news is true. A hint to SOU to build some bigger stands for more A320s? Anyone know what the SOU plans to announce in the autumn? You would be hard pressed to find a plane that lands on time and then leaves on time. Usually leave 20-30 mins late presumably because of having to wait for planes using the runway as a taxiway.

[stewyb]

If this news is correct, then there cannot be a better argument for further airfield infrastructure. If the orange lot coming to SOU doesn't improve stand space, taxiways and starter strip then I am afraid nothing will (was this part of the deal)

[LAX_LHR]

The Easyjet flights are showing in Amadeus so should be true.

[Wycombe]

Is this a movement (or partial movement) of the route from BOH, or complementary to it?

Will be a wakeup for BEE that EZY start moving in on their turf at SOU.

[IB4138]

It is an opening at Southampton with BEE pulling off the sun routes at the end of September.

[MARKEYD]

Thats a big coup for Southampton to pull off getting Easy Jet in ! !
even if it is only 3 flights a week its a start and could pave the way for a summer operation possibly ?

At the moment the flights are not taking over any flights from BOH which remain the same at 6 services a week all on the A319 where Southampton flights look to be on the larger A320

[IB4138]

A320 operations are restricted by airfield limitations at Southampton. More likely to be A319.

[GCILover]

I used to work at SOU when every Saturday we would have a full A320 going to Palma. A shorter flight to GVA should not cause any issues

[canberra97]

As to the airfield restrictions at SOU regarding the A320 in the past operators such as Iberworld and Spanair have regularly used them on routes to Spain and that was in the summer so I should imagine there wouldn't be to many restrictions to Geneva especially during the winter.

Although if any future plans for EasyJet at SOU include opening up sun routes the A319 would be more of an appropriate aircraft to use.

Good luck to EasyJet at Southampton and here's hoping the future holds well for further routes ' the futures Orange' :-)

[Cyrano]

Will be a wakeup for BEE that EZY start moving in on their turf at SOU.

It certainly should be a wakeup for BEE: if EZY can start to cherry-pick the attractive routes out of SOU, it's no longer a fortress for BEE.

But they are heavy sleepers in EXT, and anyway it's not clear they have any idea what to do if and when they do wake up! :cool:

[Buster the Bear]

Press confirmation here https://buyingbusinesstravel.com/news/1127433-easyjet-start-southampton-route?utm_source=BBT+Subscribers+Newsletter&utm_campaign=289f3656ff-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_07_11&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_1d582479bf-289f3656ff-3460153

[inOban]

To be pedantic, these new flights are EZS, EasySuisse, from the timings.

[stewyb]

Do you guys believe this deal would have been struck on the basis that Easyjet want to see airfield infrastructure improvements and will only commit to further route expansion on this condition? If so, this is almost certainly the wake up call the airport owners require as its not every day the orange lot come knocking and SOU will surely want to keep them on board.

[yeo valley]

I wonder how much it will hit boh with the gva route starting this winterout of sou.

[davidjohnson6]

I would be concerned as to what happens to Flybe if Easyjet start flying from Southampton to places like Edinburgh, Manchester, Amsterdam, Glasgow and Jersey - ie the kind of year-round routes which Flybe needs to ensure long term survival. These five routes alone cover 47% of passenger traffic at Southampton - and likely more than 50% of traffic on Flybe's routes at SOU

Ultimately it'll be a question as to how aggressive Easyjet want to be towards Flybe which is already struggling with profitability - they have the potential to make Flybe's life extremely difficult at Southampton but as a major airline they will not want to get themselves into any particular trouble around competition concerns

[richardwpprn]

To be pedantic, these new flights are EZS, EasySuisse, from the timings.

Yes DS / EZS flights.

[Flitefone]

I wonder how much it will hit boh with the gva route starting this winterout of sou.

This move will be for two reasons: lack of slots at Gatwick and going after more of the traffic currently using LHR. EZY will be seeking to grow pax not to cannibalise their existing business.

EZY had a comprehensive study on demand and catchment done for the Airports Commission, LHR is where the action is and EZY want more of it, + both SOU and BOH leak passengers to LHR.

https://corporate.easyjet.com/~/media/Files/E/Easyjet/pdf/about-easyjet/seabury-runway-forecasts-jan2015.pdf

FF

[RW20]

Flitefone

The commencing of easy jet operations from Southampton is good news for the airport,however the prospect of them developing other routes from the airport will be hampered by lack of suitable stands and Runway length, especially in hot weather which would limit 320 operations to the sun.
Stand improvements/increase,and Runway starter strip increase will take considerable time to put into place and that is only if the money was found and approval given.So immediate increase in easy flights looks limited at present
The airport owners and management have had ample time since the 2005 airport master plan to put the above measures into place,but sadly this has never materialised.

[stewyb]

RW20

A quick fix and certain improvement would be to re-size stands 2-5 from 4 to 3, thus being able to accommodate A319/320 size aircraft from Volotea and Easy. Are stands 13-14 used at all for passenger traffic? I also read somewhere that runway resurfacing is due in 17/18 so assume they may tie this in with a northern taxiway and starter strip

[RW20]

Stewyb
Stands 13/14 seem to be used for equipment parking or bis jets,I'm not sure they could accommodate anything bigger then Saab 2000 for example,however incorporating them into a large stand would make an ideal 320 stand.I can recall seeing a 321 parked nose out on stand 13/14 a few years ago.

[adfly]

Great to see EZY starting flights from SOU, as others have said it will be interesting to see if Geneva is just the start of the Orange... Nonetheless, it is a welcome addition for the Ski season, especially as Flybe have cut flights and capacity in recent years.

I believe the A320's EZY have are in fact better performance wise than most of their A319's, as many of the latter have a restricted MTOW and de-rated engines to lower operating costs, not to mention EZY weren't flying many longer routes when they first got them. Guess it is also worth pointing out that they only use the A320 on the longer Canaries routes from SEN.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Great news for SOU. Being plugged into the EZY network coupled with their marketing and brand awareness should really put the airport on the map for those people who perhaps aren't aware of it at the moment, particularly towards London.
I hope we'll see more routes to come for next summer. Another advantage is that with EZY having so many bases across Europe and the UK flights could operate into SOU from many different potential locations without any aircraft having to be based.
I do wonder if this will hole Powdair below the waterline though (at least at SOU), or whether they'll benefit from the (hopefully) increased numbers of people looking at ski routes to Switzerland out of SOU? Their flights don't operate on the same days as EZY from what I can see.
I reckon we're now going to see some significant airside investment at SOU in order to cement EZY's position there over the next couple of years, and really expand the airport's appeal in order to start taking traffic from the two closest (pretty much full) London airports. Interesting times ahead.

[GiveMeABreak]

adfly,

If you add AGP,ALC,AMS,BCN,FAO,LYS and PMI to your guess about SEN A320 routes it would be nearer to reality.

[adfly]

Not quite sure what you are saying? I was pointing out that only the A320's fly the Canaries routes from SEN as the EZY A319's can't without a significant restriction. I presume the other routes are a mix, but only the longer routes need it from a performance point of view.

[Tagron]

GiveMeABreak

Whilst what you say about the range of routes flown by the A320 from SEN is not wrong, adfly's post is not so much wrong as ambiguous. Change the order of two words and the intent of his post is clearer, hence :

Guess it is also worth pointing out that they use only the A320 on the longer Canaries routes from SEN.

The example shows well the capability of the A320 compared with the EZY A319 when operating from a limiting runway. FAO seems the limit to which EZY will task their A319 from SEN.

[Rivet Joint]

The grinning goon mentioned in an interview that they would be announcing plans for investment in the autumn. It seemed to be linked to the long mooted commercial development on the north east side of the airport rather than any investment airside though. I have heard nothing about the relief road so can't see any movement happening on that front yet.

It does seem like they really do have the final ultimatum to put their hand in their pocket to ensure the infrastructure is in place to enable the airport to grow. I am amazed that the management team haven't noticed that planes land at their airport on time and leave late 99% of the time and not had the sense to rectify this. Planes having to use the runway as a taxiway is astounding in this day and age especially as it could be fixed by the laying of some Tarmac. Hardly a massive undertaking! SOU and EZY could develop a very fruitful relationship with the affluent south of England on SOUs doorstep looking to do city breaks or hit the beaches or slopes. However the elephant in the room is the fact many opportunities to make investment have already been and gone and that SOU is owned by a pension fund. Their business plan is for a small and steady return. SOU can plod along and meet that target. I will therefore not hold my breath but hope I am proved wrong.

[destinationsky]

The grinning goon mentioned in an interview that they would be announcing plans for investment in the autumn. It seemed to be linked to the long mooted commercial development on the north east side of the airport rather than any investment airside though. I have heard nothing about the relief road so can't see any movement happening on that front yet.

It does seem like they really do have the final ultimatum to put their hand in their pocket to ensure the infrastructure is in place to enable the airport to grow. I am amazed that the management team haven't noticed that planes land at their airport on time and leave late 99% of the time and not had the sense to rectify this. Planes having to use the runway as a taxiway is astounding in this day and age especially as it could be fixed by the laying of some Tarmac. Hardly a massive undertaking! SOU and EZY could develop a very fruitful relationship with the affluent south of England on SOUs doorstep looking to do city breaks or hit the beaches or slopes. However the elephant in the room is the fact many opportunities to make investment have already been and gone and that SOU is owned by a pension fund. Their business plan is for a small and steady return. SOU can plod along and meet that target. I will therefore not hold my breath but hope I am proved wrong.

Change the record and state something that is actually factual and not your biased opinion.... Your points became irrelevant and boring a long time ago...

I am interested in knowing your punctuality source!?

[SWBKCB]

Facts? RJ doesn't do facts.

The CAA do - based on the percentage of flights operating early to 15 mins late in 2016, SOU came eighth out of the 26 reported (79.41%)

[Rivet Joint]

Destinationsky: Of course it's my opinion, isn't that what a forum is founded on? If we all just copied and pasted links to facts I am not sure much conversation would break out.

SWBKCB: Stats are often misleading. In fact you can probably find a stat that proves an argument and a stat that proves the oposite side of the argument. Look at the arrival and departures on any day and you will see my point. It stands to reason that if an aircraft landing has to turn 180 degrees and then backtrack down the runway that departures are going to progressively back up whilst waiting for a free runway. The departures also have to backtrack the runway and turn 180 degrees before taking off. I am not sure why you find any of my opinions contentious as they pretty much echo the sentiments of the other posts on here.

[SWBKCB]

RJ - yes it is all about opinions, but just making things up and repeating them doesn't make it true.

You all also said:

It stands to reason that if an aircraft landing has to turn 180 degrees and then backtrack down the runway that departures are going to progressively back up whilst waiting for a free runway.

No it doesn't - this would only hold true if the runway was running near/at capacity so there was a constant stream of a/c waiting to arrive and depart. I would expect that the airport and airlines factor this into their schedules so that it isn't a problem. If it was, the airlines would be making a noise about ("We would love to fly to X, Y, Z, but...").

[Reversethrustset]

Also the CAA stats are based on the time off blocks, not the time airborne, so if it pushes back on schedule but is then late due to back tracking aircraft then this would be reflected on its arrival time, which RJ said was running on time most of the time. Also how long must an aircraft wait at the hold for an aircraft to land and backtrack? 90 second? It's not as big a problem that is being made out, not until, as SWBKCB alludes to, capacity is reached.

[adfly]

SOU handled 176,331 passengers in May, representing a significant increase of 15% on last year. Domestic routes almost all showing strong growth. Few routes broken down below. BMI seem to be doing well on MUC now, it is right on their average load factor, so as long as the fares are stacking up I imagine they are happy with the route.

Cork - 48 pax / 67%
Dusseldorf - 49 pax / 63%
Lyon - 39 pax / 51%
Munich - 25 pax / 51% (Based on all E145, actual % will be a little higher)
Paris CDG - 57 pax / 73%

Data from here: https://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/UK-aviation-market/Airports/Datasets/UK-Airport-data/Airport-data-2017-05/

[destinationsky]

Rivet Joint - You are entitled to your opinion but if it is based on facts that are assumed or incorrect or just blind made up, that is when the issue occurs.

You bang on about the same things time and time again, making them out to be such a large issue when in fact they are not. As has already been alluded to, the back track is not ideal but it is not a limiting factor as the runway has a lot more capacity. Adding a piece of tarmac would improve the issue but do you have any concept on how much that would cost?! Then add that to the logistics of actually doing it and the planning consent, we are talking tens of millions and how quickly would you make that back? I'll give you a clue, not very! Airlines won't suddenly flock to the airport after laying a piece of asphalt, there is a lot more to it than that. EZY have been on the cards for a long long time but now the market conditions are correct for them to start.

Life in aviation is not as black and white as you think.

[stewyb]

Destinationsky

As I mentioned earlier, I understand that runway resurfacing is due in 17/18 and would be a lot cheaper and the right time to add a northern taxiway at this point. In past posts this has also been discussed when it was agreed that SOU could have done this during the last runway makeover as a job lot and at considerably less cost. If the airport wants to grow in the future alongside the likes of easyJet, then this has to be completed sooner rather than later!

[TCAS FAN]

With the advent of EZE and the probable departure of BEE 195s would this not be a time to start thinking outside the box (or Stand!), bin Stand 1 and then share the resultant space between the current Stands 1-5 to provide four A320 capable Stands?

[Wycombe]

I believe I am right in saying that a northern taxiway would need to join Rwy20 from the east (there is not enough space the other/terminal side, as things currently stand), so it would still involve a runway crossing (maybe at the current northerly entry point?), then parallel taxiway on the eastern side.

This would fit with establishing parking stands to the NE of the runway, which I believe was part of past Masterplans?

[stewyb]

In the short term, the likelihood is they will form the taxiway from stand 14 straight out to the runway with a small back track. With regards to stand space, again a quick fix would be to convert 1-5 to 3 or 4 A319/A320 stands, especially as you say with Flybe removing E175/E195 from this winter

[destinationsky]

Yes I agree that it is cheaper to do a taxiway when there already is a batching plant on site. Thing to be careful of is that the resurface date has already been put back a number of times previously because the surface state has not warranted it.

[stewyb]

Just booked February ski trip for 2 adults and 2 children with EZY and got a cracking price on the new service of £230 for all :ok:

[SOUSpotter96]

Just booked February ski trip for 2 adults and 2 children with EZY and got a cracking price on the new service of £230 for all :ok: great price!, seems considerably cheaper than Flybe (not sure on their GVA prices).
With BEE taking out the EMBs, would EZ be able to operate the routes from SOU?, surely it's viable.

[stewyb]

Assume you mean the summer sun routes with the EMB. I'm sure EZY will test the water with GVA over the winter and it wouldn't surprise me if they take on some of Flybe's sun routes next summer along with Volotea as the foot fall is definitely there. As an aside, my family used the Volotea PMI service at the weekend and both outbound/inbound flights were full, bodes well for the future!

[SOUSpotter96]

Assume you mean the summer sun routes with the EMB. I'm sure EZY will test the water with GVA over the winter and it wouldn't surprise me if they take on some of Flybe's sun routes next summer along with Volotea as the foot fall is definitely there. As an aside, my family used the Volotea PMI service at the weekend and both outbound/inbound flights were full, bodes well for the future!
Sorry, yeah I mean the summer sun routes, also read that it's going to be the A320 being used not the A319.
Volotea sounds like it's doing well then, as you say it bodes well for the future and hopefully they will expand into other routes. Was that on the A319 too that it was full?

[stewyb]

A319 both ways

[canberra97]

Southampton Airport handled a British Airways Airbus 319 G-EUUR last night, the inbound Dublin flight diverted to SOU from London Heathrow due to bad weather.

[gkmeech]

The A319 was G-EUPN

[canberra97]

The A319 was G-EUPN

I got the aircrafts registration from the Southampton Airport Yahoo Group so obviously someone has mistakenly taken the wrong registration.

[southside bobby]

Indeed....the A319`s big brother A320 G-EUUR diverted to STN as BAW7A.....

[stewyb]

What other routes do you realistically think EZY could commence from SOU? Surely a year round Kraków service has to be tried given the large Polish community in and around the city

[GCILover]

Any of the med routes would be worth taking on surely.

[canberra97]

Thinking realistically possible routes with EasyJet from Southampton could be to the following destinations

Alicante
Barcelona
Berlin
Faro
Ibiza
Krakow
Malaga
Milan
Nice
Palma
Prague
Rome

I chose the most obvious ones but I really think that EasyJet would do very well if they decided to expand their future operations at Southampton.

[RW20]

Canberra97

As stated before on this blog,unless there is significant investment airside,i.e stand enlargement/increased stands,taxiway link rw20,and the long overdue 450feet runway extension,then Easy operation from Southampton will be very limited .With over capacity in the London airports,this is the golden moment for Southampton to take a giant step forward,if past performances are anything to go by however I fear little other then cosmetic changes.

[canberra97]

I was mentioning possible routes ex SOU from Easyjet from post 1569

I am aware as well as yourself and many others of the shortcomings at SOU but if any significant air side investment was made at the airport and Easyjet set up a base the routes I mentioned could be possible.

Even if the stand situation was sorted out so that stands 1 to 5 were configured into 4 stands capable of handling four Airbus 320's and loosing stand 1 in the process, may this even swing Easyjet round to adding more flights and perhaps a small starting up a small base initially with two aircraft.

[The Nutts Mutts]

If easyJet expand their offering from SOU (and let's not get ahead of ourselves, I'd imagine they'll want to see GVA work first), then I think what they're most likely to do initially is drop flights in from existing bases or operate W-patterns rather than base aircraft at Southampton.
I think this for two reasons, one is the cost and hassle of setting up and maintaining a base, and SOU could only ever be a small one given the constraints on how many aircraft they could nightstop there, therefore it would lack the economies of scale available elsewhere.
The other is productivity. Given that Southampton closes overnight, in the event of delays to the schedule they would run the risk of not getting their based aircraft home at the end of the day and ending up either in BOH, LGW or BRS, and then having to position back the next morning. Added to that, the limited opening hours at SOU may mean that aircraft based there operate less sectors and are tucked up in bed earlier than their counterparts elsewhere, immediately rendering them less profitable.

What I think would work quite well would be a small number of core domestic routes (e.g. EDI, GLA, MAN, NCL, BFS) operating twice daily at breakfast and teatime, with international flights from European bases arriving during the day, say at a frequency of 3-5 per week per base, and then some additional sun flights to the Med arriving and departing in the evening.

Of course this could all be pie in the sky! No matter what happens I agree with everyone who says it's now time for SOU to invest airside and grasp the opportunities that are waiting.

[j636]

Lads getting carried away with easyjet's announcement, Look at BOH and BHX.

It's unlikely to mean anything significant.

[inOban]

If easyJet expand their offering from SOU (and let's not get ahead of ourselves, I'd imagine they'll want to see GVA work first), then I think what they're most likely to do initially is drop flights in from existing bases or operate W-patterns rather than base aircraft at Southampton.
I think this for two reasons, one is the cost and hassle of setting up and maintaining a base, and SOU could only ever be a small one given the constraints on how many aircraft they could nightstop there, therefore it would lack the economies of scale available elsewhere.
The other is productivity. Given that Southampton closes overnight, in the event of delays to the schedule they would run the risk of not getting their based aircraft home at the end of the day and ending up either in BOH, LGW or BRS, and then having to position back the next morning. Added to that, the limited opening hours at SOU may mean that aircraft based there operate less sectors and are tucked up in bed earlier than their counterparts elsewhere, immediately rendering them less profitable.

What I think would work quite well would be a small number of core domestic routes (e.g. EDI, GLA, MAN, NCL, BFS) operating twice daily at breakfast and teatime, with international flights from European bases arriving during the day, say at a frequency of 3-5 per week per base, and then some additional sun flights to the Med arriving and departing in the evening.

Of course this could all be pie in the sky! No matter what happens I agree with everyone who says it's now time for SOU to invest airside and grasp the opportunities that are waiting.
Why UK airports already served by Flybe?
Easyjet have several bases such as Berlin Venice and Milan which could provide a service without competing with an existing provider.

[darren1]

Whilst it's good having a few U2 flights per week it's from a Swiss airframe in mid winter just like they operate to other European airports. Whilst Flybe seem to make it up as they go along they really don't know what to do about the sun routes. I've a feeling Voltea would have stepped up more if there was a sound business case. SOU is one of they few airports in the U.K. that don't have connections to BCN or NCE. Only time will tell. I'd much prefer a twice daily LH connection to FRA.

[stewyb]

I'm sure Flybe will be left to their domestic network in the medium term but do feel that EZY could step in on the med routes as already mentioned, also Kraków, Nice, Barcelona, Venice and Naples

[Rivet Joint]

Anyone would be foolish to doubt that U2 would not open a base at SOU in a heartbeat if the facilities were in place. SOU is perfectly placed to cater for the capacity that LGW and LHR do not have space for. BE simply charge too much to appeal to the masses, and in the affluent south it is not unusual for people to go on 4/5 holidays a year. U2 would do very well serving all the usual city break destinations and will have the bonus of also catering for cruise passengers (Southampton is the cruise capital of Northern Europe). As a previous poster has pointed out, a polish route would also be a good move. I believe Southampton is 1/8th polish and some of them will go as far as using Luton to fly home cheaply.

BOH invested 45m airside in an attempt to speculate to accumulate. It would be nice if SOU could invest at least half that to make the facilities available for U2 to make what will be an easy decision for them. I am not sure stands 1-5 could handle anything more than 2 A320 sized aircraft at one time. When an aircraft of that size is on those stands it takes up 2 stands. Stand 1 is also awkwardly set back so I believe cannot even handle a q400.

[The Nutts Mutts]

Stand 1 can and does handle Q400s. If the terminal stands were changed from 5 to 4 and each one widened then you would have 4 A320-capable stands.

[RW20]

The Nutts Mutts
This may be the case,but it's only half the picture!,the poor taxiway locations are one major issue,the runway length another!The airports aids( limited ILS cat 1) poor approach Lighting, and Limited opening times all need to be addressed to attract further routes from Easy.,It's difficult to see all this being addressed.
So don't expect much development of Sun routes, especially as Volotea have had ever opportunity to make inroads in this department,but they have not come forward.Airside improvement or if not no real route development.

[MARKEYD]

Looks like Flybe are possibly trying to stop Easy Jet from getting a foot hold on any summer sun routes from Southampton for next summer by putting on sale the first part of there summer schedule up until June today , that's 4 months earlier than ever before

Guess what the E195 is back to operate a full schedule to Malaga , Faro , Palma and Alicante

Malaga is X 4 . Mon , Wed , Fri , Sat

Faro is X 3 . Thu , Sat , Sun

Palma is X 4 . Sat and Sun on the Dash and Tue , Thu on the jet

Alicante is X 6 Daily except Thu

Interesting decision to launch this early even before Bournemouth with Ryanair

[IB4138]

So what has happened for these routes to return and with increased frequency, so soon after it was announced they were being dropped before the end of this summer's season? Some flights that were announced as cancelled for October are now reinstated. Only bookable from end of March 18 to June 18 though, not full summer season.

The E195s used on these routes were supposedly off to Stobart.

[stewyb]

Seems Flybe are ahead of the game for once and released very early their S18 schedule for spring/early summer. Not unusual for an initial release up to June as EZY do the same, only releasing their seats in September. As suggested I would imagine this is an attempt to cut EZY off at the pass as it had been widely expected that Flybe sun routes were being withdrawn. I am unsure as to why winter sun, except Alicante, has been removed when I thought these routes were more than viable and indeed popular! Instead, EZY might dip their toes in the water with the likes of Krakow, Nice, Barcelona, Venice, Naples etc

[Rivet Joint]

Typical BE. Only wake up from their slumber to defend their territory. I hope EZY come in and make the sun routes their own.

[Reversethrustset]

Nonsense, Rivet Joint. The Flybe network doesn't solely revolve around Southampton. The sooner you get your head around that fact the sooner you can lower your blood pressure.

[RW20]

Reversethrustset
I think your being a bit harsh with River Joint,Flybe had no intention of continuing with Summer routes from Southampton in 2018!.The very fact that Airport managerment have the guts to finally give Easy a go this winter has given Flybe a wake-up call,however it remains to be seen it Easy and management want to do business on the sun routes,it's a chance for Southampton to finally make a strong statement.
Let's have hope!

[JobsaGoodun]

If Flybe had released only their Mediterranean flights yesterday then perhaps I could believe that this was a reaction to Easyjet, but looks like they've put their full schedule on sale for their entire operation. On this basis it'd be almost impossible for this to have been a knee jerk reaction to EZY putting GVASOU on sale.

It's also unlikely they'd suddenly pull the schedule out of the bag at short notice when you consider the size of their operation. There's been a change of management so perhaps that brings with it a change of heart when it comes to these routes. Surely it's good news to have these on sale so early rather than the indecision we've seenin previous seasons!

[rog747]

all this talk (pub talk? :8 ) about easy jet using SOU with A320's

they (EZY) have been into SEN past few years but often undersold with payload restrictions and tech stop issues even to places like Palma which is less than 2 hours - I can see SOU being no different on quite a few days of the year (high temps, high winds etc)

I know Air Europa used to, on behalf of Thomson's Hols send in their 737-800's to/from PMI/IBZ but not sure if they were payload limited
the 738 does not have the braking capability of A320's or 757's which as an aside, Thomson, when they replace the 757 with 738's at BRS will find out to their cost on a regular basis

Back to SOU are Easy intending to use the 320Neo? - does this newer version offer better performance for shorter field ops than the baseline versions?

[GCILover]

In my many years of working at SOU airport. The only destination I knew to be restricted on the A320, was TFS where it would fuel stop in Nantes. PMI never seemed to have an issue
Air Europa used to use 733's on their med flights out of SOU. I can only speak of up to 2008.
Shame 757's aren't still a popular choice, these used to fly direct to TFS with no issues.

[rog747]

In my many years of working at SOU airport. The only destination I knew to be restricted on the A320, was TFS where it would fuel stop in Nantes. PMI never seemed to have an issue
Air Europa used to use 733's on their med flights out of SOU. I can only speak of up to 2008.
Shame 757's aren't still a popular choice, these used to fly direct to TFS with no issues.

yes the 757 could get in and out of almost anywhere unrestricted - BTW whose 757's used to op from SOU to TFS?

just read on the SEN page that the 320neo has a short field option but no idea if EZY is going for that - they have put 6 extra seats in the Neo too - and the 319's are going apparently?

[RW20]

rog747
I think there could be some issues with easy 320s using SOU this winter.
The main concern will be wet runway breaking action! In recent bad weather days Volotea 319s have asked for runway conditions before landing,indeed controllers have offered a measured reading,but so far this has been declined by inbounds due to significant delays.
I believe the runway needs resurfacing,until this is done there could be problems this winter.

[GCILover]

rog747


Britannia / Thomson used to use the 752 on TFS

[uptoncol]

yes the 757 could get in and out of almost anywhere unrestricted - BTW whose 757's used to op from SOU to TFS?

just read on the SEN page that the 320neo has a short field option but no idea if EZY is going for that - they have put 6 extra seats in the Neo too - and the 319's are going apparently?
The 757 back then was thomson or then I should say Britannia ,sometimes on a very wet day it make a tech stop to refuel on way to Tfs .
Thanks col

[rog747]

rog747
I think there could be some issues with easy 320s using SOU this winter.
The main concern will be wet runway breaking action! In recent bad weather days Volotea 319s have asked for runway conditions before landing,indeed controllers have offered a measured reading,but so far this has been declined by inbounds due to significant delays.
I believe the runway needs resurfacing,until this is done there could be problems this winter.

thank you all

and from the SEN page
The A320neo does offer better airfield performance although I don't know the exact improvement. The PMI-based A320 currently operating SEN-PMI frequently carries a full pax payload in summer conditions so the A320neo could open up more distant destinations.

As far as SOU is concerned its declared distances are very similar to those at SEN although the runway 20 climb path does have obstacle problems. A "15 degree slew" departure procedure is available on 20 but I don't know if easyJet SOPs allow its use.

[adfly]

198,455 passengers were handled in June, up a solid 9% on last year. Overall looking good, not sure if the weekly feeder flights Flybe are doing will last if they stay like this. Usual route analysis below:

Alicante - 101 pax / 86%
Bastia - 59 pax / 76%
Cork - 49 pax / 69%
Dusseldorf - 50 pax / 64%
East Midlands - 19 pax / 24%
Exeter - 12 pax / 15%
Faro - 108 pax / 92%
Ibiza - 118 pax / 94% (Good start! Loads based on all 717?)
Lyon - 44 pax / 57%
Malaga - 106 pax / 90%
Munich - 28 pax / 58% (Seems pretty good considering BMI Regional's overall average load factor, as previously it is calculated based on all flights being E145's)
Paris CDG - 60 pax / 77% (3rd daily service in the near future?)
Perpignan - 59 pax / 75%
Rodez - 12 pax / 25% (oh dear Eastern...)
Verona - 65 pax / 83%

Data from here: https://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/UK-aviation-market/Airports/Datasets/UK-Airport-data/Airport-data-2017-06/

[The Nutts Mutts]

Hi Adfly, thanks once again for your analysis. Do you know how many PMI flights operated in June? I see the number of pax on that route were down a whopping c30% from June 2016 , would that all be down to the extra capacity provided by the Evelop A320 that operated on behalf of Thomas Cook last year, or do Flybe have less flights this year too? I can't remember, was it 4x717s per week last year, 2 Volotea scheduled and 2 Volotea for Thomson? If that was the case they offer slightly more capacity this year with the A319 on some flights.

[adfly]

Just had a look and reckon it is the following:

S17:

Flybe - 3 weekly (2x E95 + 1x Q400)
Volotea - 4 weekly (2x 319 + 2x 717)

S16

Evelop! - 1 weekly 320
Flybe - 5 weekly Q400 (I think, not sure when the E195 started last year)
Volotea - 4 weekly 717 (2x Thomson, 2x scheduled)

So it would appear the 30% reduction is passengers corresponds nicely with a 30% reduction in flights!

[stewyb]

EZY will absorb that reduction nicely next summer!👍

[RW20]

Stewyb
Unless we get some long awaited airside improvements news,I don't think your see easy operating to the Sun routes!.
It's such a shame,there's Southend investing in stands and taxiway upgrades,and what does SOU do?
Answer :very little!
Southampton could easily accerate to 3-4 mill paxs in a very short time given airside development,but sadly this is not happening.
Easy could be driving a rapid advancement in Southampton grouth will positive management thinking!

[stewyb]

RW20

Said slightly tongue in cheek and agree totally that only airside improvement will accelerate growth, maybe an announcement as suggested in Autumn will bring this forward

[RW20]

stewyb
I fear the announcement may be very limited,at best runway resurfememt,and possible taxiway 20 installation yes! ,but 450 feet runway extension and much needed stands no.
In addition the landing aids are woefull, especially 02 (what's happended to RNAV LPV approaches mooted some time ago?).The SAR is antiquated and possibly one of the last in regular use at a regional airport.Simply the airport has lagged well behind in development,there is simply no comparison with its neighbour Hurn in investment airside.
Until there are major changes then don't expect big players like easy developing a route structure.

[stewyb]

You are probably right RW20 although wouldn't it be nice to be proved wrong! Converting stands 1-5 to 4 for A320 use is surely not too much to ask

[RW20]

Stewby
Nothing would give me more pleasure!
However the management track record does not hold good, Investment,improvement or slow decline that's the point. What a great airport it could be,let's wait and see!

[The Nutts Mutts]

RW20,

I'm not an apologist for SOU management (far from it, I despair at some of the short-term thinking and decision making that has hampered the airport over years, on top of its geographic limitations)

However, can you clarify who you mean by "SOU management"?

As I understand it, back in the days when BAA owned it they showed next to no interest in the place, and many of the decisions that currently hamstring it were made under their ownership.

However, since AGS took over we have seen operations announced by VLM (granted they went bust but not the airport's fault, loads on their ANR-HAM service were constantly improving and becoming halfway decent), Aer Lingus regional, Volotea (who have expanded this year), KLM, BMI regional, Powdair (?), skywork (?????) and now easyJet. Not a bad roster of additional operators for a small regional airport in the space of two years.

They're obviously sweating their assets and squeezing as much revenue out of the place as they can in its current configuration, and while it may not be a spotters paradise it does make business sense. I strongly believe that the performance last year, and even more so this year, will prove that demand is there and provide the catalyst for further growth in the near future. Why wouldn't they get as much out of the current infrastructure as they can before committing funds to expand?

Look at Bournemouth and how much money was ploughed into infrastructure investments there on the basis of speculative growth. Has it worked out for them? I'd say not. How long had it been up for sale for now?

As far as the existing infrastructure at SOU goes, you don't need much else to support expanded operations beyond what's already there.

A third taxiway- nice but not a necessity, the runway isn't at capacity and while backtracking isn't normal in this country, it's not an operational issue.
A 20 starter strip- arguably the best chance of a return on investment, this would allow extra performance and new, further destinations, increasing passsenger numbers.
New radar- will probably happen in time but the existing one still works, doesn't it?
New A320 stands- another good idea operationally, would allow more A320 movements at one time so would increase revenue. Not essential though, 320s can still be parked on the existing layout, just not as efficiently.
New approach aids- while they may not be up to scratch compared with bigger airports, how often do flights actually have to divert because of being unable to make an approach? A very small number of flights per year I'd say. These are mostly due to fog, and even a cat III ILS would have times where landings weren't possible. Worth the money? I'd argue not. Aircraft can fly approaches and land on both runways pretty much every day of the year at the moment.
New lighting- see above.

The ability already exists to land, turn round and depart an Airbus-sized aircraft to a sunnier clime, look at Volotea this year, Evelop! last summer or easyJet this coming winter. Expand those existing flights to arrive from and depart to few more destinations, spread them throughout the day/week and hey presto, you've got a reasonably large easyJet operation. Whether it happens or not is another question, but I don't see any reason why it can't.
At least there's some momentum now, how many years was that lacking for?

[canberra97]

A very excellent summary and a good read.

[Expressflight]

One pertinent question surely is would a starter extension result in the CAA allowing SOU to declare a greater TODA than the current 1,831m? SOU's runway would still be Code 3 which stipulates a TODA of no more than 1,800m. 'Grandfather rights' have allowed the 1,831m to remain up to now but I doubt anything beyond that would be granted.

[TCAS FAN]

Expressflight

If the runway is modified, ie a northern extension, due to its width it will stay a Code 3 runway which will dictate a maximum TODA 1799. Cannot imagine that CAA will permit continuance of the present inherited TODA.

One spin off from a northern runway extension would be an improved obstacle environment after departure on RWY 20, and the possibility that the offset Type A Chart could be used by a greater number of aircraft. When I last looked at this problem, when the E145s arrived, obstacles (ie trees) in Marhill Copse were too close to the end of the runway to permit a turn to be made to take advantage of the improvements to be gained by using the offset Type A chart.

A TODA of 1799 works for EZY at SEN, and SOU already has better LDAs than SEN. That only leaves finding somewhere to park two or three A320s and a E195!

[LTNman]

New A320 stands- another good idea operationally, would allow more A320 movements at one time so would increase revenue. Not essential though, 320s can still be parked on the existing layout, just not as efficiently.

Just a simple question from an outsider. I suspect that you are talking about more than just repainting a few white lines and that more concrete is needed for more airbuses? I have watched new stands being created at Luton and to be honest it wasn't a big job. Just lots of cement mixers after scraping the soil away and adding base material.

[TCAS FAN]

LTNman

The space is there to reduce from five narrow Stands to four that could take A320s. Just a case of re-painting and moving the Stand Number boards.

[LTNman]

Luton has some dual width stands marked left and right for total flexibility. For instance their North Apron can park 4 aircraft but using L and R has 7 stands marked. If this is all that is required surely it would be done when required so is not a big deal.

[RW20]

TCAS FAN
I agree that there is space to reduce to 4 stands,but wouldn't that impact on an already crowded apron in busy times?I can't agree with what Nutts Mutts suggests,that 'Expand those existing flights to arrive from and depart to few more destinations, spread them throughout the day/week and hey presto, you've got a reasonably large easyJet operation.'If Easy were to develop at Southampton then surely they would require prime time slots when the airport already has a full apron!.
Only stand building ,(and I'm not sure where in the airport structure they could go ) is the realistic option.

[inOban]

Surely if Easy were to develop at SOU, it will be from bases abroad,like the GVA flight. They already have a summer base at PMI, so that is one real possibility. It avoids peak times at both ends of the route.

[AvGeek1]

Surely if Easy were to develop at SOU, it will be from bases abroad,like the GVA flight. They already have a summer base at PMI, so that is one real possibility. It avoids peak times at both ends of the route.

I was thinking the same thing, it would be good to see EZY operating from PMI, I was even thinking that they could operate PMI-SOU-ALC-SOU-PMI with PMI based aircraft in the summer season maybe twice weekly.

[RW20]

AVGeek1

Surely there's already capacity on PMI with Volotea and Flybe operations,what would be a step forward would be Poland, Croatia or Greek islands like Corfu to be offered by Easy.

[rog747]

I think CFU and DBV would be payload restricted out of SOU

SOU is usually OK for any IT flight up to about 2 hours such as IBZ BCN PMI VCE - over that we start to see restrictions with A320/321 or 738 737max i am pretty sure
that makes the operation costly

although saying that BACF lift EMB190 out of LCY to mykonos skiathos and Santorini

[AvGeek1]

AVGeek1

Surely there's already capacity on PMI with Volotea and Flybe operations,what would be a step forward would be Poland, Croatia or Greek islands like Corfu to be offered by Easy.

But easyJet do not have any bases in Croatia, Poland or Greek Islands, so to serve these EZY would have to set up base operations in Southampton which is very unlikely at the moment, which is why serving Southampton from their European bases is more likely.

I agree that 2 airlines on PMI is adequate for SOU, but it creates competition and means the passengers can have a choice of more frequencies and cheaper air fares. Also, Flybe are very uncertain and have stated their intentions of inkeeping as a 'regional' UK airline and phasing out E195 aircraft.

[Rivet Joint]

Does anyone with inside knowledge know when the expansion plans will be announced? I know it was slated for sometime in Autumn. I noticed they have been hiring for project managers recently.

[adfly]

218,755 passengers were handled in July, up 6% on last year. Good to see the fairly strong growth continuing.

Alicante - 109 pax / 92%
Bastia - 55 pax / 71%
Cork - 54 pax / 76%
Dusseldorf - 53 pax / 68%
East Midlands - 17 pax / 22%
Exeter - 18 pax / 23%
Faro - 107 pax / 91%
Ibiza - 114 pax / 91% (Loads based on all 717?)
Lyon - 61 pax / 78%
Malaga - 107 pax / 91%
Munich - 27 pax / 54% (As previously it is calculated based on all flights being E145's)
Paris CDG - 63 pax / 80%
Perpignan - 66 pax / 84%
Rodez - 17 pax / 34% (still pretty poor even considering Eastern's fares)
Verona - 67 pax / 86%

Data from here: https://www.caa.co.uk/Data-and-analysis/UK-aviation-market/Airports/Datasets/UK-Airport-data/Airport-data-2017-07/

[01475]

That was a full month of Rodez flights!?

[SOUSpotter96]

Supposedly their are plans for a direct rail link from Southampton to Heathrow. I'd welcome this as a plane spotter, but would this possibly affect growth at SOU.

[canberra97]

With the debate still dragging it's feet over a possible HS2 link with Heathrow any talk of a link with Southampton is just pie in the sky at this moment and if it were to happen it will years away from happening so I can't see it having any forseable affect on Southampton Airports growth.

[darren1]

As a failed first world country a link to LHR is just a a duluded persons wet dream. I'll be pushing up daisies before Heathrows third runway, HS2 let alone HS3 is built.

[Planespeaking]

As a failed first world country a link to LHR is just a a duluded persons wet dream. I'll be pushing up daisies before Heathrows third runway, HS2 let alone HS3 is built.

Me too. Seen and heard it before. If politicians were paid by popular results they would all be bankrupt. Hang on in there SOU and your enthusiastic spotters.