Yak42 crash, Russia

[FlyTCI]

Just broke the news. Appears most of the team perished:

CBC News - Russian plane carrying hockey team crashes (http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/news/story/2011/09/07/russia-plane-crash.html)

[liider]

RA-42434

http://russianplanes.net/REGS/RA-42434

[FlyTCI]

Apparently went down two kilometers from the airport. Several eyewitnesses say the aircraft was on fire while still in the air. Now reported 42 out of 44 on board deceased. One of the survivors believed being one of the FAs.

[Carbon Bootprint]

Well aware that any news reports at this point should be truly taken with a grain of salt, CNN is now reporting that the aeroplane collided with the "antenna of the airport beacon" as it took off from Yaroslavl.

Source article (http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/09/07/russia.plane.crash/).

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

ILS localiser?

[decurion]

Crash: Yak Service YK42 at Yaroslavl on Sep 7th 2011, failed to climb on takeoff (http://avherald.com/h?article=4428da13&opt=0)

[ondrejzatloukal]

May be flaps? Seems to be similiar to Spanair in Madrid...

[ondrejzatloukal]

Three of our players as well :(

[Loose rivets]

One heck of a non-rotation with such a low passenger count.

Flames 9 stories high. When? Beeb said something about it being before the crash.

I suppose there's the remotest chance there was an horrific fire in the rear, and a frantic scurry forward by 40 very nimble guys.

[captplaystation]

Now operating (for a little while longer) in this part of the world.
I have always said, the day I come to an airport to position & I see a former CCCP machine awaiting me on the apron , is the day I ask for a rail ticket or a rental voucher ( & a long drive) with Hertz.
I have yet to see any evidence that I am not applying common sense here.
Not Russian bashing, but jeez, just look at the statistics, for 1 year/2 years/ whatever period you choose.
Whether by bad operation/design/maintenance/piloting technique. . . death traps.
Sorry to be so blunt, and condolences for anyone whose Company/Team Boss books you on one of these things.
Me, I lose my job in preference to climbing aboard, 100% sure.

[Skyspirit]

Well, that thought is more and more stupid to me!

No matter in which aircraft are you, when something goes wrong, neither Mr.Boeing, Mr.Airbus or Mr.Yakovlev would not be there to help you!

I must fly on soviet aircraft`s from time to time because of my job...and what to do!? Well I just do my prayer to God like in every flight, with western or eastern aircraft it doesn`t matter...and go...

p.s. and what about Domodedovo Tu154 ruggedness which saved many lives!?

[captplaystation]

I am neither a statistician, nor (thank god !) an accountant, but well, sometimes we can learn from statistics.
Time to get someone else to take care of your flight reservations I think.

[Skyspirit]

>but well, sometimes we can learn from statistics.

In modern times more than often you can see this, statistics = politics (or shall we call it dirty economy)!

So maybe is time for you to think about your fears!

[757_Driver]

>but well, sometimes we can learn from statistics.

In modern times more than often you can see this, statistics = politics (or shall we call it dirty economy)!

So maybe is time for you to think about your fears! 7

Yeah, coz the huge air crash rate in the former soviet union is just western propaganda and lies.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[MrDuck]

back to the speculation, please! Statistics in a rumours forum?
Seriously, don't those pictures of wreckage in the water look like the fire was in-flight vs in the river?

[Sassy91]

Such a sad event in any case.
The problem that Russian aviation faces now is a huge shortage of pilots. This leads to poorly trained pilots (that may get away with poor flying skills in an Airbus/Boeing) who are flying Russian aircraft which demand much more.
I believe the last TU-134 that crashed was because the pilot was a retrained helicopter pilot who has not developed instrument flying skills.

The country has 2 flight schools in which the students may flying 150 hours over the course of several years and the amount of pilots retiring exceeds the number replacing them.

[Gold Miner]

First of all my condolences to all involved in this tragic accident.

I am not a professional pilot but I have flown extensively in the FSU on all the common commercial aircraft types that operate in that region. Believe whatever you want to believe about Russian aircraft but in my opinion they are no less safe that their western built equivalents.

If you want to compare fatal hull loss accidents in commercial service between Russian and western aircraft then go ahead but you will find that there are no clear correlations eg. Boeing 727 - 112 losses from 1831 aircraft built = 6.1%. Tupolev 154 - 39 from 1025 = 3.8%. Boeing 747 - 49 from 1418 = 3.5%, Ilyushin 86 - 0 from 108 = 0%. This does not take into account flight hours, there are many more ways of comparing but none are conclusive.

The biggest single factor in the majority of accidents remains pilot error in one form or another. The operating conditions in Russia and many other FSU countries are arguably more demanding than elsewhere and perhaps this is reflected in the accident statistics. It is not the aircraft that are at fault, indeed many incidents involving western built aircraft have also occurred in the FSU over the last 10 years.

[Skyspirit]

>Yeah, coz the huge air crash rate in the former soviet union is just western propaganda and lies.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Propaganda yes, but not lies...when some russian aircraft crash is happened than all western media tell us about their poor quality, awful maintance, drunken pilots and similar rubbish...but when some western aircraft fall than max you can see is "well, **** happens"

There is no need for that kind of words, that is mix of "cold war" retorics and modern capitalism dirty economy

Please, lets talk in good manner and about concrete accident

p.s. regarding other western media, yes, there is much more lies than you think...just remember lies about nuclear weapons in Iraq before war or similar lies...we all know that western politics (dirty economy) is behind that!

[YorkshireTyke]

" Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics. "

Still a sad event.

[Tankertrashnav]

I was surprised that Yaroslavl had a civil airport, as it certainly didn't when I was there for 3 months in 1992. However a trip to Wiki reveals that this is a former Soviet Air Force Mig 23 base, which has now obviously become the regional airport for the city. I see from the local weather reports that there was a 7 knot wind from the North, which would give a slight tailwind component on that runway for takeoff (assuming that weather report is accurate), although I doubt if that is particularly significant.

[DownIn3Green]

When I travlled from Fla to my summer house in Riga, Latvia, I had many occasions to fly with Aeroflot. In fact, twice I flew JFK/MOScow on them in a B-767...

My favorite part of the trip was always Moscow/Riga on a TU-154...

Very professional experience every step of the way...I'd rather fly Aeroflot than Air France...

Just my opinion, based on years of experience of Transatlantic flying/paxing...

[wingunder]

Goldminer maybe you have forgotten a few other Russian aircraft like the IL76 and AN24/26/72 of which there are too numerous to mention, crashes dotted all over Africa & Afghanistan which ARE NOT shot down !
Yes the Russian crews drink Vodka/Gin/any thing they can get their hands on before/during/after flights and this I have witnessed with my own eyes.They constantly lie about there radials/heights/distances in non radar environments to get a slot before you and yes once again I have witnessed all these acts.
I for one would not risk my ass on any such aircraft mentioned in this thread.
My condolences to all envolved in this incident ( I would not say accident ) as more than likely a factor of "technical problems " coupled by inexperience or poorly trained crew & a Macho attitude will surface as the root causes...it always does surrounding these antiquated and poorly financed aircraft.

[ensco]

Russian news agency RIAN, citing a government source, reports the focus is on whether there was an engine failure or low quality jet fuel.

[FlightCosting]

If you want to compare fatal hull loss accidents in commercial service between Russian and western aircraft then go ahead but you will find that there are no clear correlations eg. Boeing 727 - 112 losses from 1831 aircraft built = 6.1%. Tupolev 154 - 39 from 1025 = 3.8%. Boeing 747 - 49 from 1418 = 3.5%, Ilyushin 86 - 0 from 108 = 0%. This does not take into account flight hours, there are many more ways of comparing but none are conclusive.

YAK 42D production models built 125 number crashed 6 - 4.8%

Aircraft was never a great performer. It was a Soviet copy of a 727/Trident. Only a 193 airframes were produced of all models including prototypes, compared around a 1000 of the 154 that it was supposed to replace.

[ErwinS]

Yak-42 was not intended to replace the Tu-154, she was a replacement for the Tu-134 and for sure she is not a Trident/727 clone.

Very sad that this happend.

[AucT]

Here is excerpt from Russian Media:

По словам диспетчера Ария Новика, руководившего взлетом разбившегося лайнера, самолет долго не мог набрать скорость и прошел точку отрыва. Как пишет издание Life News (http://www.lifenews.ru/), лайнер попытался взлететь уже с грунтовой части ВПП, но завалился на левое крыло и рухнул на землю. English translation:


According to ATC worker, Aria Novick, who conrolled the take-off of the crashed aircraft, the aircraft could not pickup sufficient speed for a long time and passed the point of takeoff. According to "Life News", the aircarft yet tried to take off from grass part of the runway, but it fell on the left wing and crashed to the ground.

[HarryMann]

An acceleration/thrust shortfall where V1 itself becomes somewhat meaningless then ?

[Skyspirit]

>Yes the Russian crews drink Vodka/Gin/any thing they can get their hands on >before/during/after flights and this I have witnessed with my own eyes.They constantly >lie about there radials/heights/distances in non radar environments to get a slot before >you and yes once again I have witnessed all these acts.

Nothing more than average western pilot, just to mention that western pilots take more medicaments

> as more >than likely a factor of "technical problems " coupled by inexperience or >poorly trained >crew & a Macho attitude will surface as the root causes...it always >does surrounding >these antiquated and poorly financed aircraft.

Ohhh you are such a good liar for "poorly trained" qualification of Russian pilots! I have friend in this sector and can assure you from first hand there is everything normal like everywhere.

Regarding "Macho attitude" and "poorly financed" aircrafts it is more common for some western countries like US...there was already couple of crashes involved with mooney cutting in maintance sector.

Obviously you are writing about african aviation

Regarding Russia we must stay on concrete accident!

p.s. this is classic politics (dirty economy) influence. Everything on other side (potential competition with Sukhoi super jet for example) is worse than ours...this is very insidious!

[5 APUs captain]

2 Flight Costing:
Actually one Il-86 has been lost near Moscow during ferry flight due to "MUCHO" style takeoff - they've set the stab trim too much nose up to make a show - then could not level off fast and lost the speed.....

About Yak-42 - I've got some experience with it 20 years ago.... IMHO one of the reasons could be the following:
1. Stab not in T/O range or
2. Flaps/slats not in T/O range (that's why they were running too long time, awaiting for proper setting) or
3. At least two engines problem. One engine lost can not lead to a crash with so low load (about 30% from max).

[Skyspirit]

Runway photo
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/pilo698...302833/?page=7 (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/pilo6986/view/302833/?page=7)

Runway is 3000m long but on Russian aviation site they are speculating that aircraft start takeoff roll some 500m after threshold and than use approx 400m od grass behind other threshold. According to ATC worker thay gain not more than couple of meters in altitude...

They found that fuel quality and Flaps position was normal...

[GarageYears]

To those posting % numbers of hulls built, this is a meaningless statistic.

I built 10 aircraft of type A and fly them 1 time per year for 10 years.... 1 crashes.

I built 10 aircraft of type B and fly them once every day for 10 years..... 1 crashes.

Which one is safer?

There are perhaps 2 meaningful statistics:

- hull loses per million miles flown
- hull loses per flight segment

Take your pick, but a crude % lost from hulls built is a useless number.

- GY

[ap08]

Agree with the previous poster & would like to add a few points:

First, there is no such thing as a "Russian" aircraft. They are Soviet aircraft, designed 20+ (more likely 30+ or more) years ago and hopelessly obsolete compared to any common western brand like A or B. I am not saying this is good, but it is not fair to compare the safety of old aircraft to new models.

Second, whether you like it or not, disregard to safety is a Russian national trait of character. Whoever doubts it, welcome to Moscow and try to drive a car here and you will understand. Obviously aircraft are not flown the same way but you get the point.

Third, and probably most important, Russia has many small air carriers that just privatized parts of Soviet Aeroflot and have been flying the same soviet aircraft ever since, without proper maintenance, with no hope of buying/leasing new ones (at best, buy some similarly old imported models...). So they fly those old plane like there's no tomorrow. Eventually the day comes when there is really NO tomorrow...

[Kulverstukas]

Ïîñëåäíèå ñåêóíäû ßê-42 ñíÿòû íà âèäåî | Íîâîñòè ÍÒÂ | Òåëåêîìïàíèÿ ÍÒÂ. Îôèöèàëüíûé ñàéò (http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/238742/)

[RegDep]

Thanks Kulverstukas. At least one fact of this flight seems to be that the flaps were extended…..

[barit1]

Not having Russian aero charts at the ready, is this the right airfield?

S. bank of the Volga, 15 km SE of Yaroslavl (57.560,40.160), single rw 06-24?

My guess is this is right, since the YAK42 appears in photos to have wound up on the river bank near the island.

[Tankertrashnav]

Thats the one barit1 - former Soviet AF fighter base


Runway is 3000m long but on Russian aviation site they are speculating that aircraft start takeoff roll some 500m after threshold


Whats the old saying about there's nothing more useless than runway behind you at start of roll?

[Passenger 389]

The description of the plane failing to gain enough speed, running out of runway, and then striking a navigation antenna as it tried to lift off, seems reminiscent of the Melbourne tail-strike incident in 2009 involving an Emirates A340. As I recall, that even later was attributed to a typing error by the flight crew when entering the plane's estimated weight (and calculating takeoff speeds and thrust required).

Is the Yak-42 suspectible to a similar error?

[CargoOne]

Passenger 389

There is no such thing as flex or derated takeoff on Yak42

[sleeper]

So the engines were not delivering enough thrust, or the aircraft was overweight.

[lomapaseo]

So the engines were not delivering enough thrust, or the aircraft was overweight.


You forgot to include locked brakes etc.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

Given the basic design and the actual pax, overweight seems awfully unlikely.

Jammed elevator? Gross mistrim? Both might cause failure to rotate.

Crew incapacitation at VR? Seems massively improbable, but ...?

[lurker999]

it's not a huge aircraft, surely 2500M is enough.

and

after 1000m in the roll they must have known something was wrong so why not reject?

[videoguy]

Is this routine take off ? :hmm:

Russian jet almost runs off runway - YouTube

[ron83]

According to Russian deputy minister of transport they started their take-off roll 150 from threshold,thus giving 2850m of runway left. It's actually twice a distance required given their load.

[RingwayWrench]

Did they actually rotate and achieve and kind of pos-rate? If not dare I suggest gust locks? It has happened before and will happen again.
edit - Although in hindsight after reading that, surely upon realisation that the elevators were 'jammed' by such, an RTO would have been performed so I'm most likely miles off the mark.

[Hotel Tango]

Is this routine take off ?

Videoguy,, to be honest although the answer should be no, the IL-76 had a reputation for this (mainly due to being overloaded). Saw it a few times at my local airport and they were subsequently banned from operating by the authorities.

[ErwinS]

Flaps were out if you see this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbI6PzXPovM

[scanhorse]

From ; MAK

Google Translator Översätt (http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mak.ru%2F&act=url)

[scanhorse]

Hi
Here is a news board with associated news
coming in more or less live ;

News Feed: Lokomotiv Yaroslavl Plane Crash | News | The Moscow Times (http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/news-feed-lokomotiv-yaroslavl-plane-crash/443431.html)

[Kulverstukas]

MKdvUkcMY5w

[vovachan]

Flaps and stabilizer set, investigators confirm: Crashed Yak-42 had flaps deployed and functioning engines

****
this pretty much takes care of all the prevailing theories floating around so far. Time to make new ones

[azalea]

Flaps and stabilizer set, investigators confirm

The whole matter reminds me on the Spanair crash at Madrid. Therefore the question is if the slats were set correctly, too?

http://bildupload.sro.at/a/images/YK42Crash_7Sep_2011.jpg

[andrasz]

Exact statement from MAK website:

...before takeoff, the stabilizer was set to 8.7 degrees "pitch up" and the flaps were installed in the aircraft take-off position - 20 degrees. The engines worked until the moment of collision with obstacles...

CVR/FDR reading in progress.

By process of elimination, if aircraft was configured properly and weights were within limits, the only remaining reasons why it would fail to accelerate sufficiently would be either insufficient thrust or set brakes... Working engines in my reading translates to all engines producing power at impact. Exactly how much power remains to be determined.

[andrasz]

...the question is if the slats were set correctly, too?

Yes, clearly visible on the video. Slats/flaps extend together, unless there is a malfunction (with associated warnings) you cannot have flaps 20 without extended slats. This accident seems to have nothing in common with Spanair.

[mervart]

Looking at the photo posted as #53 the flaps seem to me to be extended more than 20 degrees. Or is it just because of the lookout of the snap?

[sky sailor]

Video only tells that flaps/slats were deployed WHEN a/c hit the obstacle...
What about beginning of t/o run?

[Momoe]

Post 38 (CargonOne) states that derated take-offs are not an option on the Yak-42, assuming this to be true, why?
Can't see why a derated take-off can't be done with enough runway/low AUW, does the Yak-42 have a configuration that puts it in the bucket if you rotate at less than a given thrust?

[AucT]

According to Russian media the authorities disallowed refuling local fuel at Yaroslavl airport until further notice. The fuel is being transported from other regional airports by road tankers. There is seems to be a rumor that crashed Yak42 was refueled with contaminated fuel.

[lomapaseo]

Working engines in my reading translates to all engines producing power at impact.


Make that .... able to produce power

Most early releases of on-scene investigation will not have the fidelity to say how much power. The fidelity is at best something above idle. More detailed examination in a strip teardown increases the fidelity.

I simply infer from the press release that there were no outward signs of broken engine parts

[SLF305]

First time poster, an SLF.
The head-on camera view at the end of the video on post #51 is intriguing. It appears the camera was not at ground level but elevated about 4 feet (just an estimate ???). Looking at the fenceline to the left adds to that impression. The foreground also appears like a grassy unprepared surface. Was this camera located on the extended runway centerline past the end of the runway or perhaps off to the side?
Also, if you look closely at the video, at about the 22 -23 second mark the aircraft lights appear to suddenly dip. Was that the moment the aircraft left the prepared surface and continued to roll out on the grass? The nose gear is clearly off the ground, viewed directly and by it's shadow on the ground but the main gear are still on the ground (or grass).
Just a few thoughts. Thanks for reading - any comments are encouraged.

[henra]

This accident is in so far puzzling to me as with such a small bird on such a long runway, why didn't they reject ???
Normally that thing should have rotated halfway down the Runway. If in such a small Jet Airliner after 1500m the speed is far insufficient for takeoff, something is awfully worng.
That would leave ample opportunity to rethink and throw out the anchor.
why did they continue?
What was their speed at 1500m point ? 80 kts? or less?

[SLF305]

The shadow of the right wing appears very close to the mentioned fenceline at left. Has the aircraft already veered right of centerline?
The camera likely got whacked by the aircraft based on the last frame. Was the camera mounted on the mast (antenna) that was struck?
Again, just food for thought?

[Kulverstukas]

It appears the camera was not at ground level but elevated about 4 feet (just an estimate ???). Looking at the fenceline to the left adds to that impression. The foreground also appears like a grassy unprepared surface. Was this camera located on the extended runway centerline past the end of the runway or perhaps off to the side?

This is CCTV camera located at same pole which support beacon at the end of runway and which was hit at the end of the run by plane.

The camera likely got whacked by the aircraft based on the last frame. Was the camera mounted on the mast (antenna) that was struck?

Exactly.

[Kulverstukas]

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4204/pilo6986.33/0_49ef1_2714f6a9_-1-orig

[Machaca]

They went off the far end in the above photo.

[ensco]

Could load distribution have played a role? Hockey players are large men, usually weighing over 90 kilos.

[fdr]

Yes, clearly visible on the video. Slats/flaps extend together, unless there is a malfunction (with associated warnings) you cannot have flaps 20 without extended slats. This accident seems to have nothing in common with Spanair.

Quite.

Spanair's JK5022 MD-82 reaches Vr in a shorter distance than a normal aircraft does due to the lower drag.... it just doesn't fly well without LE devices, and TE Flaps. Now there is still a possibility of the unique takeoff mechanism used by at least one peninsula airline.... where following a config warning for flaps being forgotten, then the flaps are deployed on the roll. (what the passengers don't see apparently doesn't always hurt them). The first event like that, the crew achieved the flaps by the normal Vr (well, almost...) the second/repeat event ("just bad luck, could happen to anyone..."), resulted in the rotate being delayed by about 30kts... so the roll was much longer than normal. Again, Spanair, the flap configuration was not identified before the rotate was initiated, and the aircraft immediately enters a high drag condition with inadequate lift, and exhibits roll instability... Yaroslavl is not a repeat of Spanair.

The YAK-42 has not rotated as it overruns the DER, yet the video shows the aircraft responds normally to elevator input at least at the time of impact. The stabiliser if initially mis-set takes time to be recognised, and reset, and would result in an increase in TO roll...

The event is either a failure to achieve adequate speed, ie low thrust or high drag from wheels... or is an mis-set stabiliser. If the report of the stabiliser trim setting being correct is actually valid, then the engine performance/fuel etc is going to be interesting to look at. Brakes as well...

[MountainBear]

First video of Yak-42 crash site as Russia hockey team killed in Yaroslavl - YouTube

New Video out of crash scene.

[Kulverstukas]

Tires on fire and in 1 meter undamaged wheel with no sign of fire. Brakes set at take-off?

PS: Fuel quality confirmed today as said by Rosaviation representative.

So, not bad fuel, not non-takeoff configuration, not "half runway takeoff"...

[The Ancient Geek]

Maybe incorrectly loaded with extreme forward CofG ?

[Kulverstukas]

As was mentioned on forumavia.ru, this is VIP configuration with salon with couches and tables in the wing section and rows in the tail. Everybody must be on the rows and buckled at takeoff and landing, so it's highly improbable, I think.

[Bleedvalve]

That looks like the left hand bogey burning there. Did they go off the runway to the left or the right?
Sticky brakes or park brakes set looks like a possible cause.

[Hotel Tango]

Good to see all the armchair experts are here again. Bleedvalve, the answer to your question Did they go off the runway to the left or the right? is in the above photo of the airport if you bothered to use your brain for two seconds!

[Kulverstukas]

Another "expert" - custom officer from Tunoshna. What's important - confirmed that Yak reached runway from taxiway #5.

gbmuyTYY-fE

[ron83]

Yak reached runway from taxiway #1.

They departed RWY 23,so it should be Taxiway 5 they line-up at:hmm:

[RegDep]

Taxiway 5 and ILS Localizer circled.

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/uudl_aerodrome.jpg

[Kulverstukas]

Thanks for correction. Besides, this video must put stop on speculations about "halfway takeoff".

[silverstrata]

that the moment the aircraft left the prepared surface and continued to roll out on the grass? The nose gear is clearly off the ground, viewed directly and by it's shadow on the ground but the main gear are still on the ground (or grass).


Yes, interesting video. That certainly looks like grass to me.

There are tyre tracks to the left that look a lot more like impressions in grass, and the take off zone has none of the lights and lines of a runway. It would certainly appear like a take off on the grass.

Incorrect power setting? Too great a de-rate?

Actually, the most likely scenario to me is brakes binding. The primary thing that caught fire in the lake was the entire wheel bogey. But why? Fuel spillage on the tyres is possible, but this was the only fire I could see. More likely is that the the brakes and tyres were glowing white hot, and burst into flames. It would explain the overrun and the fire.



.

[jcjeant]

Hi,

that the the brakes and tyres were glowing white hot, and burst into flames. It would explain the overrun and the fire.


Maybe ..
Despite .. on the video (latest frames) it's a clear view of the right main landing gear and nose wheels gear .. and it's no fume .. smoke visible ...

[silverstrata]

Despite .. on the video (latest frames) it's a clear view of the right main landing gear and nose wheels gear .. and it's no fume .. smoke visible ...


True.

Although we only have a view of the sbd gear on that take-off video, and it is unclear which bogey is burning.

But there again, the aircraft appears to have veered right, not left.


.

[MountainBear]

@Kulverstukas (http://www.pprune.org/members/119846-kulverstukas)

How old is that photo of the runway you posted? There is something...odd...about it.

[RegDep]

Two pictures, unfortunately do not know the date.

Could you please elaborate MB?

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/Avia01.jpg

http://i1103.photobucket.com/albums/g472/RegDep/tunoshna.jpg

[MountainBear]

@RegDep

Thanks.

If you look at the end of the runway near the ILS in the photo you posted you see very clearly that the gap between the runway and the ILS is dirt as opposed to the photo by Kulverstukas (http://www.pprune.org/members/119846-kulverstukas) where it is grass. The simulation of accident as described in the video from the "custom official" also indicates the surface was dirt.

But if you look at the initial video posted by ErwinS (http://www.pprune.org/members/312853-erwins) it certainly looks like grass to me at the end. Especially so when you compare the side shot with the end shot as posted by Kulverstukas (http://www.pprune.org/members/119846-kulverstukas) in post #51. But the videos are grainy and it's hard to to say with certainty.

[RegDep]

MountainBear, Kulverstukas' is a picture that appeared in several Russian forums after the accident (so are mine, but they look older to me, the second one clearly so). I am sure he will explain it tomorrow; not it is well past midnight in his location.

Edit to say that according to the picture information in the file, it was taken on 2010:05:30 at 10:54:56.
Reg

[HarryMann]

Agree JCJ, no sign of heat or smoke, and it would be that r/h maingear pulling them off that side of the runway, no ?

[Kulverstukas]

EXIF
Make: Canon
Model: Canon PowerShot SX200 IS
Exposure: 1/200
Aperture: f/4.5
Focal lenght: 24mm
ISO: 80
EV comp: 0 eV
Taken: 30 May 2010, 10:54

Photo by pilo6986 at Yandex.Fotki (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/pilo6986/view/302833/?page=7)

You can ask pilo6986 directly.

[Loose rivets]

this pretty much takes care of all the prevailing theories floating around so far. Time to make new ones



Could load distribution have played a role? Hockey players are large men, usually weighing over 90 kilos.

Maybe incorrectly loaded with extreme forward CofG ?


I wasn't really convinced by my notion on the first page - just extreme lateral thinking, but for the moment other possibilities seem thin on the ground.

I suppose there's the remotest chance there was an horrific fire in the rear, and a frantic scurry forward by 40 very nimble guys.


I still can't get clear where these huge pre-crash flames were coming from. It may be it was just confused reporting. (The particular Beeb 'Headlines' item has time-expired on my FFox.)

[SLF305]

Having 2 video views of the aircraft rolling out allows estimating the speed of the aircraft based on a number of measurements (assumptions) - first order estimates at the very best. Of course the final accurate answer will hopefully come from the recovered FDR. I offer this as just an exercise and NOT in any way a definitive estimate of speed of the accident aircraft.
From the end view video, it appears the aircraft lights dip noticeably at about 22 seconds (post # 51 video) and collides with the camera assumed to be mounted on the ILS localizer tower at 27 seconds. The map view of the runway shows a culvert just past the runway, likely draining into the river. Assuming the apparent dip of the aircraft (main gear still on the ground) was caused by rolling over this depression, and knowing the time interval AND distance between the culvert and ILS tower would give the speed of the aircraft. From the scale on the map I measure 413 meters (+/- ???). Traveling 413 meters in 5 seconds would give an 'average interval' speed of 161 knots. NB The time period (5 seconds) is the weakest assumption and likely largest source of error here.
From the side view video what's needed is the frame rate of the camera (frames per second). The scale could be determined by using the published length of the aircraft (YAK-42D ??? 36.4 meters) and measure the displacement frame to frame of the aircraft measured in length units of the plane on the screen. For example if the frame rate is 4 per second (0.25 second) a 36.4 meter long aircraft traveling at twice its length per second (72.8m/sec = 142 knots) should be displaced by half its length per frame.
What's needed is better video processing software with better time resolution on both videos - I don't own any, so I make no estimate here. Someone who does with some time to kill, might want to carry this exercise further with possibly a bit more accuracy. Use the last 2 or 3 frames as the aircraft goes off screen left because the camera view there is more perpendicular to the runway - less perspective error.
Again I offer this as only an excersie or a template for analysis and make no claim of accuracy for the limitations I stated. We of course await the actual numbers from MAK and the FDR.
Thanks.

[HarryMann]

I wasn't really convinced by my notion on the first page - just extreme lateral thinking,

don't you mean extreme longitudinal reasoning :rolleyes:

[Mikey56]

Sadly Alexander Galimov did not recover from the burns suffered in the crash

BBC News - Russian plane crash: Last ice hockey team member dies (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14879198)

[jcjeant]

Hi,

Another audit needed for add some corrections ?
AuditReports3-CSA (http://www.icao.int/fsix/auditRep3_icvm.cfm?s=Russian%20Federation&i=143)

[theballetbrusque]

A wrongly chosen engine operating condition may have been the likely cause of the recent crash of a YAK-42 airliner near Yaroslavl on the 7th of this month, a crash that claimed the lives of the local Lokomotiv hockey club team.
This came in a statement for the Interfax news agency by a source in the law enforcement bodies.
A lead is now being followed up whereby the pilots may have failed to light the afterburner during the take-off run.
As a result, the plane failed to pick up the required speed due to insufficient thrust to gain height during the take-off.
The lead is proved by the fact that the pilots, when still on the runway, failed to report any technical problem to the flight traffic controllers.

Wrong engine operating condition is likely cause of Yaroslavl air crash : Voice of Russia (http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/09/12/56035432.html)

[Lost in Saigon]

A wrongly chosen engine operating condition may have been the likely cause of the recent crash of a YAK-42 airliner near Yaroslavl on the 7th of this month, a crash that claimed the lives of the local Lokomotiv hockey club team.
This came in a statement for the Interfax news agency by a source in the law enforcement bodies.
A lead is now being followed up whereby the pilots may have failed to light the afterburner during the take-off run.As a result, the plane failed to pick up the required speed due to insufficient thrust to gain height during the take-off.
The lead is proved by the fact that the pilots, when still on the runway, failed to report any technical problem to the flight traffic controllers.

Wrong engine operating condition is likely cause of Yaroslavl air crash : Voice of Russia (http://english.ruvr.ru/2011/09/12/56035432.html)


Light the afterburner? :ugh: Maybe there wasn't enough steam pressure in the catapult too... :rolleyes:

[RegDep]

Lost in Saigon, give the man a break. It is just problem of getting lost in translation, no misinformation. They write better English than most of us do in Russian.

[Jetjock330]

Anyone else notice if the right wing seems to be taking out some fence poles during the rotation, in the oncoming video???

[RegDep]

Jetjock330, I don't think so. See the shadows. The sun is on the right in the video, making the shadow of the aircraft be a bit left (in the video). Yet the wing tip shadow is well clear of the fence line (the actual tip being more). Or did I watch a different video than you?

[vorra]

Light the afterburner? :ugh: Maybe there wasn't enough steam pressure in the catapult too...They are talking about takeoff power vs maximum continuous power, I hope this terminology makes more sense.
(http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?t=1749508_1_2)

[Kulverstukas]

Anodina (MAK head) said Interfax today, that no technical malfunction was recorded on FDR, plane was set and weigted correctly for takeoff (but omitted info about weigt distribution) and suggested that they will need simulation flight to make. CVR and recording from tower are still decoded.

[ron83]

Brief translation from MAK web site 12-Sep.

1. Yak 42 ,reg.42434, was produced in 1993, had a total of 6500 hours,which is almost twice less it's specified life of 12000 hours.
2. Take off mass was below MTOW.
3. According to FDR data there were 14t of fuel, 8 of which were fuelled in Yaroslavl.( Quality check is still under investigation)
4. Before take off crew made Flight control check, all control surfaces deflected as required.
5. Weather at the airport including crosswind wasn't a factor influencing take off.
6. Engines were operating until impact.
7. Stabilizer and flaps were in take off position before take off.
8. There were no aircraft system failures recorded on FDR.

[willl05]

6500 hrs in 18 years? Average app. 360 hrs per year?

[Loose rivets]

Rather high direct operating costs.

[vovachan]

6500 hrs in 18 years? Average app. 360 hrs per year?

this being a charter plane in a VIP configuration

[Nervous SLF]

Could this video help?

LiveLeak.com - Lokomotiv Yaroslavl plane hits camera on late takeoff

.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

hmm

That last video appears to show the nose lifting, since it seems to be the belly that hits the camera, not the nose or nosewheel.

That would seem to rule out flight control issues causing inability to rotate...?

The quality is so low I dont think you could hope to tell if the brakes were smoking - other than not trailing a huge plume of smoke, you just cant tell (well, i cant)

[Machinbird]

That last video appears to show the nose liftingYes, I saw the shadow of the airborne nose gear in one frame. Meanwhile the distance between the belly and the ground seems to disappear. I wonder if the tail left a divot in the dirt?
The relatively high camera perspective does not clearly show ground-tail contact during rotation-but it is close.

[Hotel Tango]

:confused::confused::confused: With respect, this video was already on the first pages of this thread so I can't see that you're posting anything new, but just repeating what's already been covered.

[widebody69]

Different video, the one above is new.

[Kulverstukas]

All three are from one source (LifeNews aka Russian "Sunday Mirror" yellowpaper newsagency) but from different hostings.

This one more interesting, I think - view to runaway from taxi #4:

http://s003.radikal.ru/i204/1109/d9/827e162866b1.jpg

© from ru_aviation: (http://ru-aviation.livejournal.com/2029108.html)

[ensco]

MK.ru reports that the pilot took ill only minutes before take off and handed off duties to the co-pilot. Early discoveries suggest that the handbrake on the plane wasn't released. This seems very hard to believe.....or is it?

[Phalanger]

Google Translate:
According to our source, the credible, the commission has found that the plane began to crackdown on the runway with the parking brake nevyklyuchennym. This device - analog handbrake in a car - used only for parking. Engine power is enough that the aircraft moved from its place, being on the parking brake (as well as some forgetful motorists gets under way on the "hammer") and have driven on a taxiway to the runway. But to accelerate to takeoff speed is already becoming problematic.

In addition, the source said, "MK", ​​which, according to the transcripts of the speech recorder Yak-42, immediately before takeoff the aircraft commander ordered Andrew Solomentsev second pilot Igor Zhevelovu to take it over, citing poor health.

The parking brake was off just a commander. But perhaps the moment of transfer of control of the pilots just forgot it and did not pay attention to the corresponding signal on the dashboard (beep it is not duplicated).

Neisklyucheno that when the Yak-42 began to accelerate for takeoff and could not gain the required speed, the pilots noticed a mistake and turned off the brake.

I wonder if the brakes would have had trouble disengaging after the amount of energy that would of been placed into it.

[Kulverstukas]

Yak-42 "Proton" # 42434 Cabin configuration

http://www.charter444.ru/files/aircrafts/yak42_no42434_sch.gif

http://www.charter444.ru/files//aircrafts/yak42_no42434_02b.jpg

http://www.charter444.ru/files//aircrafts/yak42_no42434_03b.jpg

http://www.charter444.ru/files//aircrafts/yak42_no42434_04b.jpg

[Kulverstukas]

Broken ILS mast

http://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/72d636f4.jpghttp://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/ec471120.jpg

http://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/7c966076.jpghttp://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/e81db675.jpg

http://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/215c8c94.jpghttp://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/683c3828.jpg

http://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/1c8f54fd.jpghttp://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/8dde4fce.jpg

Wheel trails on the grass of КТП

http://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/65c8bc0c.jpghttp://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/a37cbcc0.jpg

Light masts?

http://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/57899116.jpghttp://foto.rg.ru/gall/images/56abe6ed/ec6308b3.jpg

© -42. : (http://foto.rg.ru/gall/56abe6ed?1)

[jackx123]

first finding states that the flight supposedly forget the "hand break" at take-off resulting in a forced rotation meters before end of runway.

[Grassfield]

Swedish media reports that the PIC forgot to retract the speedbrakes (early reporting of handbrake was allegedly a misunderstanding by the reporting media) that were deployed during take off roll... !

[vovachan]

The authorities are now saying the are discounting the brakes theory but are considering a nose-heavy plane because most passengers and cargo were located up front

[HeadingSouth]

but the video of the Yak hitting the camera shows the nose clearly being up, i.e. NG off the ground. So a nose heavy condition can be somehow excluded, no ?
and what's behind the alleged health issue of the commander ? let's not go that way will we...

[Grassfield]

Ehhh, Swedish some media report speedbrakes extended and some report parkingbrake set... so please take my eaerlier speedbrake comment with a pinch of salt.

Other sensational media reports the pilot never had flown Yak 42 before but only Yak 40s. I don't know the truth of such allegation but after a quick search on Wikipedia, it is clear that the difference between the two is fairly substantial (the 42 is 4x heavier and takes 4x the pax) in case he was not used to the 42...

[Machinbird]

Eh? Why would the speedbrakes be deployed in the first place? Good question.
No throttle position based-speedbrake interlock?? If so, that would be begging for trouble.
Where are the speed brakes located on the Yak 42?

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

but the video of the Yak hitting the camera shows the nose clearly being up, i.e. NG off the ground. So a nose heavy condition can be somehow excluded, no ?

Not necessarily. An aircraft which is nose heavy will perhaps not rotate at the scheduled Vr, or perhaps will only rotate slowly, but as speed increases the aerodynamic force of the tail acting to raise the nose will eventually, by the power of "Q", overcome the weight moment. Problem is, if you run out of runway before that can happen ...

[westhawk]

Problem is, if you run out of runway before that can happen ...

This was mentioned over on the reject beyond V1 thread. Two overrun accidents in which the crew were unable to rotate the airplane and rejected were cited. An aircraft which fails to rotate due to misloading, mistrimming or flight control malfunction may leave it's flightcrew in the unenviable position of having to decide which is the lesser threat. Reject with an overrun or continue trying to get it in the air and potentially not make it.

There isn't nearly enough reliable information yet concerning this accident to make even an educated guess as to whether or not any of those things happened here. It's as good a guess as any and better than most though.


Some investigative work product which might tend to rule some potential causal factors either in or out:

Lab findings regarding the nature of any heat damage to brake units.
FDR traces indicating engine parameters.
FDR airspeed/time history
CVR transcript (translated)
An accounting of actual takeoff weight.

These bits of info are just a few items on a long list of things to be determined. I haven't a clue how quickly the investigation will proceed or how much will be revealed to the public, but I'll keep a watch on this thread for any updates.

[grizzled]

A couple of points to consider..

IF one were to discuss weight and balance as a possible factor (and I make NO comment at this stage as to the veracity of that being a factor, from what we know so far), I would make the following observations:
1. With the seating layout provided (IF it's accurate) it would seem that too much "weight forward" from seated pax would not be a reasonable possibility.
2. However... The equipment required by ice hockey players, and therefore very likely carried on this flight, is very heavy. Therefore the weight of baggage, per passenger, would be much greater than an "ordinary" flight -- even an ordinary flight carrying a team of large fellows playing a different sport. IF that baggage was not loaded (distributed) properly, then we could have the source of a significant weight and balance issue.

[vovachan]

Here is a transcript which appeared in the media, roughly translated by myself.

Captain: 74, 76.

F/E: 74, 76.

Captain: time, headlights (on). We are taking off, threshold (V1?) 190.

Captain: 3, 4, 5, nominal (thrust).

F/E: At nominal.

F/E: Speed increasing. Parameters OK. 130, 150, 170, 190, 210.

Captain: Takeoff (thrust).

F/E: 220, 230.

F/O: Probably the stabilizer.

Captain: Takeoff (thrust). Takeoff (thrust), stabilizer

F/O: What are you doing?

Captain: Takeoff (thrust).

F/E: Takeoff (thrust).

Captain: (expletive).

F/O: Andrey!

[ap08]

So that's what happened: they forgot to make the proper trim setting, aircraft accelerated to V2 (210-230) but refused to get off the ground, Captain ordered to increase thrust, F/O made a comment about trim, Captain agreed and still tried to take off. Looks like a situation where the takeoff should have been aborted even after V1...

[Karel_x]

I am not shure what "nominal" power is. T/o thrust of Progres D-36 is 63.800N and max cruise thrust 15.700N.
http://www.motorsich.com/pdf/306.pdf

Captain: time, headlights (on). We are taking off, threshold (V1?) 190"рубеж" 190 could be transalted also as "limit" 190. I belive that it means V1.

[westhawk]

Thank you for the translation vovachan. I realize your transcript is not official, but is appreciated just the same.

This dialogue concerning the stabilizer certainly appears to point in the direction of rotation difficulties. The Captain appears to be concerned with thrust, yet this could be explained by a desire to accelerate to make the elevator more effective.

The FO's comment regarding the stabilizer is made after the FE's 230 speed callout. (what would be a realistic rotation speed?)The Captain's repetition of "takeoff" and the addition of "stabilizer" seem like commands. As to what the Captain was doing to cause the FO to ask him "what are you doing", I don't even have a guess.

[MountainBear]

F/O: What are you doing?

Captain: Takeoff (thrust).1706:34.7 KLM CAM 3 Is he not clear that Pan American?
1706:35.7 KLM-1 Oh yes. [emphatically]

[Karel_x]

Time stamps:

11:58:37 Captain: 74, 76.
11:58:40 F/E: 74, 76.
11:58:41 Captain: time, lights, taking off, limit 190.
11:58:53 Captain: 3, 4, 5, nominal (thrust).
11:58:58 F/E: At nominal.
11:58:59 F/E: Speed increasing.
11:59:04 F/E: Parameters OK.
11:59:07 F/E: 130
11:59:12 F/E: 150
11:59:15 F/E: 170
11:59:19 F/E: 190
11:59:27 F/E: 210
11:59:28 Captain: TOGA!
11:59:31 F/E: 220
11:59:34 F/E: 230
11:59:37 F/O: Probably the stabilizer
11:59:41 Captain: TOGA! TOGA! HS
11:59:47 F/O: What are you doing
11:59:48 Captain: TOGA!
11:59:49 F/E: TOGA
11:59:56 F/O: Andrey!

After 11:59:19 acceleretion decreased. Between first instruction instruction TOGA! and F/E confirmation seems to be interval 21 sec! It look like the first command was omited and TOGA was set after the captain secound command.

[vovachan]

"informed speculation" now tends to point to dragging brakes as the culprit either because someone was inadvertently riding the brakes, or because of some hardware problem. That would create enough nose-down force to prevent it from unsticking.

[henra]

11:59:19 F/E: 190
11:59:27 F/E: 210
11:59:28 Captain: TOGA!
11:59:31 F/E: 220
11:59:34 F/E: 230



Very interesting !
That would be 15s from 190 kph to 230 kph.
That's an eternity.
and that with TOGA thrust.
Definitely something wrong here.

Stuck brakes would indeed create a strong Nose Down moment as long as they were on concrete. Only after getting on the grass and 'jumping' a bit downhill, the Nose of the Aircraft starts to rotate. Given the fact that the factor of adhesion would be very much reduced at that moment and considering the bounce after the bump when leaving the runway a subsequent rotation seems plausible.

The story with the breaks seems to match most of the known.

A Nose Heavy CG would also match many of the facts but the acceleration with TOGA thrust should rather have been higher in that case.

[ST27]

Very interesting !
That would be 15s from 190 kph to 230 kph.
That's an eternity.
and that with TOGA thrust.
Definitely something wrong here.

Are you sure they had TOGO power? The FE didn't respond after the first command by the captain, though it might have been missed on the recorder. My interpretation is that the FE didn't apply TOGO power until after the second command, which was 21 sec later.

Stuck brakes would indeed create a strong Nose Down moment as long as they were on concrete. Only after getting on the grass and 'jumping' a bit downhill, the Nose of the Aircraft starts to rotate. Given the fact that the factor of adhesion would be very much reduced at that moment and considering the bounce after the bump when leaving the runway a subsequent rotation seems plausible.

If the retarding force is so high, then how did the aircraft get to V1 in only 20 seconds at nominal power? (assuming 190 is V1) Any extra drag would have significantly slowed the aircraft down and extended the time to V1.

Further, some earlier quotes from the investigators say there were no visible skid marks found on the runway. If the parking brake was applied, as the aircraft gained speed, and the wing gained lift, things would reach a point where the wheels would lock and there would be obvious skid marks on the runway.

The story with the breaks seems to match most of the known.

I disagree. Speed brakes, maybe, but unlikely. Wrong CG, also unlikely, but perhaps a greater possibility than brakes.

[ST27]

Tripped over this on YouTube. Supposedly the audio from the CVR, though the time intervals don't match, so it is likely a reenactment. Note the different transcription and translation than was posted previously in this thread. Someone who knows Russian will have to comment on the differences.:

Lokomotiv Yaroslavl Crash - Audio recording from black box - YouTube

[757_Driver]

Thank you all for being gentle, I get that main undercarriage braking will put weight on the nose-wheel and I do not know what V2 is on this, but I assume that if V1 is 190(somethings) then 230 exceeds V2. So, if the wings are flying then there is no downforce on the mainwheels, hence no braking on the mainwheels, hence no nose-down moment caused by breaking (of the mainwheels)?

Perhaps we should first clear up what V2 was for this weight, both properly configured and clean? Its not quite as simple as >V2 = flying. You can quite hapilly tear down the runway significantly faster than Vr and V2 without the aircraft flying - if you don't rotate the aircraft you wont get any angle of attack on the wing and you wont get any lift. (its a little more complex than that as the wing is 'built in' with a slight angle of attack- but nowhere near enough to lift the aircraft at anything other than insane speeds).
Lift = essentially angle of attack * speed squared. you need both angle of attack AND sufficient speed to generate the lift.
So if the aircraft doesn't rotate to angle the wing into the airflow, it ain't gonna fly.
I've watched a fair few russian aircraft take off, and some of them do seem to accellerate slowly and use alot of runway. (ever wonder why most russian airports seem to have 4000m of tarmac!). I can't comment on whats normal for a yak42 but if those timestamps are correct than thats a very very slow accel. 50 secs from 75 to 190 kph (40 to 105 kts) ! My car is significantly quicker than that! and another 15 secs from 190 to 230 (125kts) - and we can surmise that they went off the end of the strip round about that point - thats 65 secs to get to 125kts - even an old russian klunker can't be that slow. Gotta be something wrong with that.

Probably reading too much into an unoffical transcript, but I don't know about you but If i'm heading off the end of the runway and either of us call for Full thrust and nothing happens I ain't gonna call for it agian. I assume either pilot or the FE can firewall the thrust levers in a yak42? why wait and ask for it again when you are going grass cutting?

EDIT to add that I'm reading the 74, 76 bit at the beginning as speeds - but you could read it that the 'speed increasing' comment was the start of the roll in which case accell looks pretty normal. Who knows. No doubt someone will come up with an answer soon. Unless the laws of physics have changed recently theres only a handful of things that make an aircraft go off the end of the runway like that.

[vovachan]

Tripped over this on YouTube.

That's just some simmer kids having fun

[Karel_x]

I'm reading the 74, 76 bit at the beginning as speeds
Angle of thrust levers 74...76 degree for reducet thrust t/o and after a few secounds to 90...91degree (three... four... five...nominal)

[Karel_x]

Supposedly the audio from the CVR, though the time intervals don't match, so it is likely a reenactment. Note the different transcription and translation than was posted previously in this thread. Someone who knows Russian will have to comment on the differences.The crew had comunicated in Russian.Two translations on this thread are almost identical and both are the translation of CVR (and dialog on the video). Adding time stamps I was little lazy to write down long words so I used common used abbrevations like TOGA, HS. The crew used long terms, but some slavic words can not be directly translate to English. For example, because in slavic languages all adjectives are different from nouns. Take-off (thrust) means, that in Russian "take off" was in adjective form and it was told without noun (thrust).

[vovachan]

Here is a cablegram from MAK which appeared on the web, google-translated with some light edits by me. I left out the boring parts

Telegram number 140 635 from the MAC, the 09/14/2011
DATE, TIME EVENTS (LOCAL, UTC, time of day): 09/07/2011, 15:59
Moscow time (11:59 UTC), DAY
PLACE EVENT: RUSSIA, at a distance about 800 m about 240 AZIMUTH
Degrees from the exit end of runway 23 AERODROME Tunoshna (Yaroslavl)
COORDINATES scene of the accident 57 deg 33.029 'N, 40
Deg 07.336 'E
Event Type: CATASTROPHE
Type of aircraft: Yak-42D
AC REGISTRATION NUMBER: RA-42 434
CERTIFICATE OF STATE REGISTRATION: NUMBER OF 4565 19.09.2007,
Issued by Federal Service for Supervision of TRANSPORTATION
MoT RUSSIA
Certificate of Airworthiness: NUMBER 2082101871 FROM 14.12.2010, ISSUED

….

INFORMATION ABOUT THE CREW:
CPT: total flight time - 6954 on the Yak-42 - 1312, AS
CPT Yak-42 - 686 , meteorological conditions - 60 x 550m, 200M TAKEOFF
The co-pilot: the total flight time - 13 492 H, on the Yak-42 - 613
Mechanic: the total flight time - 568 h, on the Yak-42 - 568
Technical staff on board: 2 engineers,
CABIN CREW

….

NUMBER OF CREW / PASSENGERS: 8 (including 2 GROUND ENGINEER) /
37
KILLED CREW / PASSENGERS: 7 / 37
INJURED CREW / PASSENGERS: 1 / 0

ABOUT AC: SERIAL NUMBER: 4520424305017, manufacturer, date -
SAZ (Saratov), ​​1/10/1993, HOURS AC - 6482, 3109 .,
LIFE UNTIL TO-10000 - 18 years, until 10/01/2011, CAPACITY - 15,000 H,
….

NATURE OF MISSION: CHARTER FLIGHT
FLIGHT ROUTE: Yaroslavl - Minsk
LAST POINT OF DEPARTURE: Yaroslavl
DETERMINED POINT LANDING: Minsk
NUMBER OF PASSENGERS AND THEIR NATIONALITY: 37, 26 - RF, 3 - CZECH REPUBLIC, 2 - CANADA
1 EACH (Germany, Slovakia, Sweden, Latvia, Byelorussia Ukraine)

IMPACT EVENTS, INCLUDING FOR OTHERS object known: 7
CREW AND PASSENGERS KILLED 36, 1 GROUND ENGINEER
and 1 passenger (later died in Hospital) RECEIVED Serious injuries. FELL A few trees, FUEL SPILL over a wide area, destroying ANTENNAS COURSE
SYSTEMS APPROACH LIGHTS DAMAGED

Takeoff weight, CENTERING: Take-off weight 52 816 KG, CENTERING 4.24
Percent, is within the RLE
Weather conditions: wind 360 - 03 M / C, visibility 10, Cloudy
SIGNIFICANT Stratocumulus 990 M, temperatures of 17.8,
PRESSURE 747.9 mm Hg, 0.6 COP

BRIEF DESCRIPTION OF EVENT: operate charter flights AKY OF 9633
ROUTE Yaroslavl - Minsk.
On board were two pilots, flight engineer, 3 flight attendants, 2
ENGINEER'S GROUND MAINTENANCE AND 37 PASSENGERS.
Takeoff from runway 23 AIRCRAFT TERMINAL Tunoshna OVERRAN
Runway, collided with Antenna COURSE SYSTEM, APPROACH LIGHTS
TREES, damaged and caught fire.

DESTROYED PLANE FOUND distance of about 800 m from the exit
Runway 23, LEFT AXIS about 100 m. Scattered COMPONENTS
Over a large area partially in the water.
The extent of damage the aircraft: AIRCRAFT DESTROYED
INFORMATION ON THE STATUS Flight recorders: NO DAMAGE,
decoded
PHYSICAL characteristic of scene of the accident: the river bank
Flat terrain, stand-alone trees up to 10 METERS
RECOMMENDATION: Conduct classes with flight crews YAK-42 TO CORRECT
Position of the feet on the pedals at various stages of flight, and THE
PROCEDURE ADJUSTMENT pilot SEATS.
(END)

[HarryMann]

RECOMMENDATION: Conduct classes with flight crews YAK-42 TO CORRECT
Position of the feet on the pedals at various stages of flight, and THE
PROCEDURE ADJUSTMENT pilot SEATS.

So you're saying THAT is the important bit, Oh Dear! :rolleyes:

[SLF305]

Captain too ill to fly...
Brakes set or not set...
CVR - F/O to Captain "What are you doing?"...
Now a refresher course on correct foot on pedal placement during flight???

Has there been any postmortem information released on the toxicology status of the flight crew? Will there be?

[wozzo]

Here's what MAK published today, translated by Google and polished with the help of my very deficient Russian, English and aviation knowledge. Any corrections are welcome.

Original here: MAK: Yak-42 RA-42434 (http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2011/yak-42_ra-42434.html)

- Takeoff weight and center of gravity aircraft did not exceed the permissible limits
- Before take-off flaps were set at 20 degrees (take-off position), the stabilizer -8.7 degrees pitch up, which corresponds to estimated 24-25% of the alignment of the MAR (?)
- Before take-off the crew double-checked all channels of control of the aircraft, including the channel of the elevator, the elevator was deflected cleanly. The maximum recorded deflection of the elevator pitch up was 21 degrees, which corresponds to a constructive stop. Last check was performed 1 minute and 40 seconds before takeoff.
- Weather conditions at the time of the accident: wind 360 - 3 m/s, visibility 10 km, clouds significant stratocumulus lower limit of 990 m, the temperature +17.8° C, 747.9 mm Hg pressure. Art., friction coefficient of 0.6.
- Take-off from runway 23 was carried out. Taxiing aircraft to take-off was carried out by RD (taxiway?) 5. Distance from RD 5 to the start of runway 23: about 300 meters. Total runway length: 3000 meters.
- The crew decided to take off at nominal thrust settings. Preliminary simulations showed that the rate of up to ~ 165 km/h acceleration rate corresponded to the set engine thrust.
- Command to rise of nose wheel began at approximately 185 km/h. The elevator was set to pitch up at values ​​of 9-10 degrees (about half way), but increase of pitch angle did not happen. After 6 seconds thrust settings were put in take-off mode. Despite increases take-off thrust, acceleration slowed significantly, which may be explained by the appearance of additional braking force. The actual value of an additional braking force will be established based on the results of mathematical modeling and field experiment. The braking systems of the aircraft were sent to be studied by a specialized institute. These study started on 16 September.
- The maximum speed reached by the plane: approximately 230 km/h. In spite of continuing increase of elevator pitch up, separation from the runway did not happen. According to the traces on scene (?), the actual separation of aircraft took place at a distance of 400 meters after exiting runway 23 end at deflection of elevator at 13-14 degrees and the relocation of the stabilizer to 9.5 degrees pitch up. After separation of the aircraft from the ground followed an encounter with the antenna system localizer and the rapid growth of the pitch angle to 20 degrees for 2-3 seconds. Maximum recorded height: 5-6 meters.
- Then followed an intensive roll of the plane to the left and its collision with obstacles and the ground.
- Measurements of fragments of the aircraft revealed that at the time of the accident flaps and slats were set in take-off position, the spoilers were retracted, the stabilizer in position about 10 degrees pitch up. Wiring layout elevator control showed that at the time of the accident there was not disconnection of wiring.
- The Technical Commission investigates all possible versions of occurrence of additional braking force during take-off and the reasons why the aircraft failed to make timely detachment from the runway.

[SLF305]

Despite increases take-off thrust, acceleration slowed significantly, which may be explained by the appearance of additional braking force.
My emphasis.

11:59:47 F/O: What are you doing
Presumably said to Captain.

RECOMMENDATION: Conduct classes with flight crews YAK-42 TO CORRECT Position of the feet on the pedals at various stages of flight, and THE
PROCEDURE ADJUSTMENT pilot SEATS.
Other than a failed rollout and rotation what other 'stages of flight' are relevant to this accident?

Toxicology may reveal a lot.

[Dash8100]

So the captain hit the brakes? (FO: "what are you doing?")

[Machinbird]

So the captain hit the brakes? (FO: "what are you doing?")

Anything is possible. He could have been pulling off power on the center engine or reducing flap setting for example. By then they were in extremis and the aircraft was not rotating.

[HarryMann]

It was rotated, we saw that...

Was it over rotated? Is over-rotation even a possibility with take-off slat on the YAK- 42 ?

Just a thought... early over-rotation > partially stalled wing (l.e.stall) + incidental braking force

[Machinbird]

Was it over rotated? Is over-rotation even a possibility with take-off slat on the YAK- 42 ?


Most likely it was not over rotated, but instead was rotated so late that ground collisions doomed the aircraft. One of the last images I saw before the aircraft hit the camera included what I believe was the starboard main gear strut torque link and it appeared to show that there was still substantial compression of the main gear strut. The wing had not yet begun to bear the weight of the aircraft.

[silverstrata]

Despite increases take-off thrust, acceleration slowed significantly, which may be explained by the appearance of additional braking force.


As I said before, the brakes being on would explain this crash. The only thing burning in the lake, was the wheel bogey, which would be better explained by very hot brakes than a fuel spillage. And that slowing of the aircraft after 210 kph again looks suspiciously like brake application.

Perhaps the brakes came on accidentally. Perhaps the f/o thought they were too far down the runway, and decided to unilaterally abort the t/o by applying the brakes. (Would not have been the captain, as he was calling for full power.).


.

.

[Kulverstukas]

LifeNews claims that this is trail of right main wheels, found by MAK at the last 100 m of runway:

http://ncontent.life.ru/media/2/news/2011/09/69958/400-225-2.jpg

This one is from runway treshold shoot minutes right after takeoff:

http://i044.radikal.ru/1109/1b/15c42d506d0b.jpg
http://s61.radikal.ru/i173/1109/b3/7fae4d0b787e.jpg

[ap08]

decided to unilaterally abort the t/o by applying the brakes.
Without saying anything about it? :confused:

[silverstrata]

Who knows.

There is many a passenger in a car who subconsciously presses hard on the footwell when they think the driver is too close to the car in front, without saying anything about it (the imaginary brake).

Conversely, if it was a braking system fault, then what could cause brakes to come on uncommanded? It is not a usual system failure. Does the Yak have autobrakes?

Another possibility might be a brake that was binding from the beginning, but the problem worsened as it got hotter. A brake would need to be on for some time, or on very hard, to get enough energy to burst into flames.


.

[Kulverstukas]

I don't remember calls for a toxicology test in the latter.

Confirmed negative.

[vovachan]

22 Sept update

Representatives of the Technical Commission of the Interstate Aviation Committee to investigate the crash of the Yak-42 RA-42 434 conducted an interview with engineer for aircraft and avionics, surviving accident. In his opinion, there were no complaints abt the work of aircraft in the previous flight, in preparation for accident flight and during accident flight. His words clarified the actual distribution of passengers and baggage - in the front cabin was management of the team and coaches, the team was in the second cabin, the bulk of luggage was loaded into the rear trunk.

[Pali]

I've read a report about the possible causes of the crash now. It seems that one of the pilots pushed brake during take off by mistake. The brake pedal seem to have "tricky" design (said test pilot Alexander Akimenkov) and you are supposed to put down your foot from it. If not then involuntary break force may be the result during TO.

Mysterious breaking force impeded rotation. PF fought with the stick and pulled too hard so once airborne the AoA of Yak42 exceeded the critical value of 19 deg (optimum range is 10-12), stalled and crashed.

The sole survivor board engineer Sizov who has been traveling as a dead head said that he knew that plane is about to crash. PAX were very nervous during TO because it took too long and when the plane went into air he recognized that crash is inevitable.

[Karel_x]

...to have "tricky" design...exactly he said:
...из-за примитивной особенности педали тормоза. По его словам, на педали есть железная кромка. При взлете ноги снимают с педали так, чтобы каблук слегка прижимался к полу. Если каблук полностью остается на педали, то летчик может непроизвольно внешней стороной ступни жать на эту кромку и тем самым производить торможение.... Нужно учиться летать...because of the simple feature of the brake pedal. According to him, the pedal has steel edges. In time of take off the foots should be removed from the pedals and the heel lightly pressed to the floor. If the heel ramain completely on the pedal, then the pilot may inadvertently press the outward side of the foot to this edge, and brake... We have to learn to fly.

[vorra]

The sole survivor board engineer Sizov who has been traveling as a dead head said that he knew that plane is about to crash. PAX were very nervous during TO because it took too long and when the plane went into air he recognized that crash is inevitable.The survivor is an avionics engineer, not a board/flight engineer of any kind. The media stubbornly refer to him as a flight engineer.

[vovachan]

Google with some edits:

Chairman of the Technical Commission of the Interstate Aviation Committee reports that the necessary stages of the investigation the crash of the Yak-42D w / n 42 434, which took place 09.07.2011 in the town of Yaroslavl, are satisfied, including:
- Special studies of drums wheels, brakes and braking systems of units, as well as the technical condition of aircraft tires. At the conclusion of the FAA "State Center" Safety in Air Transport ", failures of these units has not been detected;
- Completed processing and analysis of recorders, including analysis of engines, airborne systems and equipment, crew actions, identification of the voices of the members of the crew;
- Mathematical simulation of an emergency flight;
- Flight experiment conducted on the basis of LII. MM Gromov, with the participation of experienced test pilots for the program, coordinated Research Institute of Civil Aviation and LII approved flight-Methodical Council LII. The data obtained in the experiment, confirmed the results of mathematical modeling of an accident flight;

- Analyze all of the documentation submitted by airlines "Yak Service", including the organization of flight operations, crew training, medical records and test results and airlines Rostransnadzor Rosaviatsia after the accident;
- Analysis of accidents and disasters of aircraft Yak-42 for the entire period of their operation with the calculation of probability estimates failsafe systems and components, etc. According to available data in the Technical Commission for the period of operation of aircraft Yak-42 there has been no incident, including accident, for reasons related to ergonomics cockpit.

The technical committee has all the necessary materials, surveys conducted by research institutes and centers, flight and technical experts to establish the systemic and immediate causes of all relevant factors and circumstances of this accident, as well as developing a set of necessary measures for safety.
The work will be completed within the next 2 weeks.

[liider]

MAK conclusions (in Russian):

http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2011/materials_ra-42434.pdf
http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2011/final_ra-42434.pdf

Both pilots had a most of experience on Yak-40, where the position of feet on pedals differs from the Yak-42.
The FO had a bigger leader authority than the Capt. The FO blood contained some phenobarbetal, which is prohibited for pilots, and had a neural disorder (polyneuropathy).

Takeoff weight, V1, V2, Vr have never been calculated.

Someone inadvertently pushed the brakes, and the braking power didn't allow to lift off, then the full power was selected, both pilots started pulling the yoke, it didn't help.

At the end of the runway, Capt. pushed the yoke for 1 second, the FO asked "What are you doing?" and then the Capt. pulled it back again. The flight engineer after noticing the movement of the yoke forward, immediately moved the throttles back, but after explicit of the FO: "What the f'*k?!" and the command of the Capt. "Full Power!" moved them back to full power.

After losing the braking power on the grass, the plane lifted off, stalled and crashed as it was described in the earlier comments.

[vovachan]

PS the report also finds both pilots continued to fly Y40s with its different arrangement of pedals in between the Y42s which contributed to the confusion.

[jcjeant]

Hi,

More: (in english)
Crash: Yak Service YK42 at Yaroslavl on Sep 7th 2011, failed to climb on takeoff (http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4428da13/0014&opt=512)

[worried SLF]

If I understand the report correctly prosecution might find this "Yak Service" a very "interesting" company. How many years in jail is the management facing now?

[North Shore]

At the end of the runway, Capt. pushed the yoke for 1 second, the FO asked "What are you doing?" and then the Capt. pulled it back again. The flight engineer after noticing the movement of the yoke forward, immediately moved the throttles back, but after explicit of the FO: "What the f'*k?!" and the command of the Capt. "Full Power!" moved them back to full power.

Crew coordination, Russian-style:rolleyes:

[vovachan]

Here comes the MAK animation! You may want to ff to around minute 13. Not much happens before

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=rdORSIwJgwE

[Karel_x]

had a neural disorder (polyneuropathy).

That means getting worse of sensitivity and movement coordination of his legs. It starts from 2000. The specialists tell that he may not be aware of position of his feed and/or preasure on the pedals. Wery sad.

[jcjeant]

Hi,

That means getting worse of sensitivity and movement coordination of his legs. It starts from 2000. The specialists tell that he may not be aware of position of his feed and/or preasure on the pedals. Wery sad. How this pilot was allowed to continue to perform his job ?
What about the medical exams ?
I always read and heard that medical examinations were very strict in the airlines world (safety first !)

[barit1]

Noseover - inadvertent brake application: WPR10CA101 (http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20100108X21035)

[worried SLF]

@ jcjeant

How many airlines do you know that are closed joint stock companies with 1000 dollars capital? In the actual MAK report in Russian there are some paragraphs about this YAK Service buisness. Falsifying records, no flight department, no safety department, the second pilot never presented a formal documented proof he was trained for the type. If you are surprised the pilots could be allowed to fly with his condition you will be also surprised this company was allowed to exist for so long, and only in July was seen as 'meeting requirements' and certified to continue operations probably by the same people that now had its license withdrawn - and of course it's not the only company like that. It is a different world to the one you are familiar with. You can be a healthy person but if really needed you can obtain a certificate that you had half of your organs removed before you turned 16 and it works the other way too. In a world where most people at their jobs from bottom up only care about what their immediate bosses say everything is possible.

On the other hand it seems that in a perfectly civilised country like France pilots can be officially allowed to fly even when they don't know how. Possibly done to provide 100% compliance and prevent falsifying records too.

[Karel_x]

Yak Service were not public airlines, it was VIP charter company. That is big diference and I am afraid there are many similar companies with low standard of security. Remember Polish PAF 101... In my country two fatal accidents were in the last years, luckily with small planes. Landing deep under minima and attempt to barrel roll in the flight...

[vovachan]

Yak service is described as a shell company which leased planes owned by others. This plane in particular is said to belong to the Khrunichev Space center which is government-owned, basically a business jet.

Point is Yak service is just a front. The state-owned space outfit is the real villain here.

[afhelipilot]

“Propaganda yes, but not lies...when some russian aircraft crash is happened than all western media tell us about their poor quality, awful maintance, drunken pilots and similar rubbish...but when some western aircraft fall than max you can see is "well, **** happens"

I personally do feel very sorry for the people who had passed away in this tragic accident. The term like western or non western pilot , actually does not really exist at least should not. There are many pilots of the Russian origin at the “ western airlines “ if we continue with this description.. . I do agree with a fact that whenever it comes to the complex and tragic accident, then the voices are being heard , often not being correlated with the topic .. . After reading the news about this crash I may absolutely not state that the pilots health was a real cause. Our African aviation was a good one really all the people were financially set up, and was great one could do whatever one wishes to at anytime. No one was really talking in terms of the financial aspects of the future further flying,,,Yes, it’s great to hear a reminder to stay on concrete accident, I like it.

[silverstrata]

Someone inadvertently pushed the brakes, and the braking power didn't allow to lift off, then the full power was selected, both pilots started pulling the yoke, it didn't help.



I said this crash would be a brake application problem. But rather than being a neurological problem, that caused the brake application, this may be a simple fear/inexperience problem.

With a load of ice-hockey players, the t/o weight may well have been more than the loadsheet suggested. Thus the take-off roll was rather longer than expected. Thus the fearful f/o starts to unconsciously press on the brakes as the end of the runway nears - just like a passenger in a car might do in the footwell of the passenger seat, when his wife is driving.**

Result - unannounced application of brakes and a further retarded take off speed.


We are getting quite a few basic handling problems, mostly it has to be said by the new generation of f/os. I still think that rushing f/os through to a commercial with just 200 hours and bugger all light aircraft/gliding experience is the root of many of these problems. I think a compulsory 3-week course in gliding should be instituted. For the sake of £2,000 (yes, that is all), many of these incidents could have been averted.

Air France - inability to diagnose that 15 degrees of pitch at 36,000 ft is not desirable.
India - lost control in the cruise, while capt was in toilet.
Japan - opening the door with the rudder trim knob.
etc: etc:



** Sorry about that, ladies. ;-)


.

[konradeck]

Some new details:
Pilots 'Had No Right' to Fly Plane In Yaroslavl Crash | Russia | RIA Novosti (http://www.rianovosti.com/russia/20120906/175798494.html)

The crew of a Russian airliner that crashed near Yaroslavl (http://en.ria.ru/trend/crash_yak_2011/) last year killing 44 people, including an entire ice hockey team, had no right to fly, investigators say.
Vadim Timofeyev, deputy head of the Yak-Service airline which operated the Yak-42 plane, allowed the two pilots to fly the aircraft "illegally," said Vladimir Markin, a spokesman for the Investigative Committee. One pilot had "falsified documents" and the other had received no adequate training to fly the plane, Markin told journalists.
Timofeyev has been charged with breaching air safety rules, Markin added.
(...)
An official report last year said the pilots inadvertently applied the brake during take-off.
It also said neither pilot was fit for flying, as one had traces of a sedative drug in his blood and the other had been diagnosed with a motor-skill debilitating disease.

One pilot with falsified documents, other without type rating... Cool! :)

[Christodoulidesd]

.......and drunk. Can it get any worse?

[Karel_x]

Drunk? I think no spirit was found in the blood, only medicaments.