AA 763 @ ORD...PAX Evac.

[JanetFlight]

Hi...just saw it on the News »»»

Passengers exit plane on slides at O'Hare after fire | abc7chicago.com (http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8291587)

Fortunately no serious injuries but Interesting to follow...

[crewmeal]

Well done to the crew for their positive actions, but as one passenger states

"Nobody panicked. We went down the slides. They evacuated the whole aircraft within 3 minutes," said passenger Anna Micheles.

In my day we had to get everyone out in 90 seconds and that was a 747. Any comments?

[blueloo]

Do you really think the first thing she did when ordered to evac was start a stopwatch?

[crewmeal]

blueloo I simply asked the question that's all.

This is done with non airline employees taking passenger seats and the CAA/FAA conducting an evacuation to see that the f/a's are able to evacuate all the passengers within 90 seconds or less. This is a very common term in the US.

The above quote was taken from the pp cabin crew forum 5 years ago

[Basil]

90 sec demonstrated under ideal conditions doesn't mean that it will ever be achieved in practice in a full aircraft.

[TightSlot]

I suspect that you didn't have to get everyone out in 90 seconds in your day - You had to get them out as fast as you could and as fast as appropriate.

The 90 second thing (using half the exits) is a test conducted as part of the certification of the aircraft: As far as I am aware, it is not now, and never has been, a target for actual evacuation.

Please forgive me if the tone of this post seems somewhat terse: There is no mention of evacuation related passenger injury in the article; the evacuation was apparently successfully conducted. It seems (to me at least) regrettable, that the second post on this thread should seek to criticise from such remote comfort.

[Starbear]

I have long held a theory on this often quoted figure.

I do not believe anyone in power, including the authorities (CAA/FAA) or manufacturers actually expect to be able to evacuate an aeroplane within 90 seconds in the real world. I have always believed the 90 secs is a nominal figure which each manufacturer must demonstrate in strictly controlled conditions, as alluded to in that quote from the cabin crew forum as posted by crewmeal.

I am sure we are all aware that the test tries its very best to simulate potential real life conditions such as making 50% of exits inoperative and night type visuals. They even try to offer inducements (including cash) to some of the "passengers" to encourage them to exit as quickly as possible, making it a competition in effect, to generate disorder and a "rush type" mentality.

How the 90 secs was ever decided upon is probably lost in the history of avaiation (someone out there may know) but it can only ever be a nominal figure because you simply cannot replicate real life scenarios to the degree required in order to "guarantee" a 90 secs evacuation. But the 90 secs is the only figure ever quoted so of course the media, even aviation media, leap upon it at every opportunity, as do many of our peers within the industry.

Trouble is I have never seen this written down anywhere so can't prove it but to my simple brain it makes absolute sense.

[Starbear]

Sorry, you beat me to it TightSlot!

[CargoOne]

Air France 340 and few other wodebodies were indeed evacuated in less than 90 sec live.

[ReverseFlight]

I guess it is a tough call for the Captain to decide whether to risk exploding brakes on a pax evac, or to keep them on board and risk being roasted alive - either way he may get the flak.
Well done to the entire crew for a good outcome.

[crewmeal]

Tightslot
It seems (to me at least) regrettable, that the second post on this thread should seek to criticise from such remote comfort.

It wasn't a critcism in any way. My point was that when I originally trained back in BOAC days, we were shown a grainy 'PanAm 90 second evac' demo of this being carried out and were expected to do the same if anything happened in the future. All subsequent SEP refresher courses, regardless of fleet highlighted this training. I've just had a look at a previous manual for a UK carrier and I quote

The law demands that all passenger aircraft shall have a specified number of exits in the passenger cabin, i.e. Doors, emergency windows or
escape hatches, or air stairs together with appropriate escape equipment, (so that with a full passenger load, complete evacuation of the aircraft can be achieved within 90 seconds, and assuming that all the exits on one side of the aircraft are inoperable).

As I said before well done to all the crew for what happened.

[Piltdown Man]

Crewmeal will now tell us how many times over the years that BOAC/BA have actually evacuated aircraft within 90 seconds. The 90 seconds goal is a certification requirement rather than an operational goal. That any aircraft was evacuated within three minutes (with Std. Mk I SLF) is pretty amazing.

[J.O.]

Air France 340 and few other wodebodies were indeed evacuated in less than 90 sec live.

Close, but not quite 90 seconds. But given that several exits were, or quickly became, unusable due to fire, they did very well. From the TSB report into the Air France accident in Toronto:

Approximately two-thirds of the passengers evacuated via exit R4. The remainder evacuated via exits L1, R1, and R2, and a few evacuated at exits L2 and R3. It is estimated that the aircraft was evacuated in a little more than two minutes. A number of passengers took their carry-on baggage with them; in view of the urgency to egress rapidly because of the smoke in the cabin and the fire, this action presented a significant risk to safety.

[Non Zero]

Excellent job ... a big WELL DONE to all the crew member!

[lomapaseo]

The 90 sec during cert is to demonstrate that that the aircraft can be evacuated in 90 sec by the average passenger.

What happens in real life is up to the passenger and crew.

In the subject incident I would certainly want to take enough time to reduce the chance of injury to myself.

Of course I woud rather not be evacuated down the chutes at all but that's a crew call. I have been aboard an aircraft that did have a wheel fire and while deplaning normally watched the fire trucks spray the wheel.

[Mr A Tis]

Trouble with the lo-cos is that cabin baggage is now completely maxed out due to check in costs. Overhead bins used to be for coats, briefcases & an overnight bag- now on a shorthaul aircraft they are probably stuffed with about 2,000kgs of luggage. On my last recent lo co flights 8 cabin bags had to be tagged into the hold as the bins were chokka. Unfortunately, in an evacuation, there will also be some pax trying to drag their bags off.The more bags in the cabin- the more likely they will impede a swift exit.
Any safe evac without injury is a success.

[jack schidt]

Right,

Regulation to certify an aircraft capable of evacuation of a full load of passengers is usually carried out under test conditions where company employees (familiar with aircraft) participate in the test. The company offers the first 1/3rd of pax (employees) off the aircraft a $100 bill to ensure they make a darn good job of it and get as near to 90secs as humanly possible.

Tell you what, sometimes on my aircraft it takes pax 30 mins to get off after a ULR flight! If I landed and they had to evacuate, I would guess 5 mins would be good going.. pax have shoes off, they put them back on, they grab their belongings, 3 mins to me is very good going!

[Bealzebub]

On my last recent lo co flights 8 cabin bags had to be tagged into the hold as the bins were chokka.

I wonder if anybody checked the contents of those bags? There are many things that can be carried in cabin baggage that become "Dangerous Goods" prohibited, when placed in hold baggage.

[safetypee]

jack schidt, post # 17. IMHO you are severely misinformed.
Of the several manufacturers’ certification evacuations where I was involved, all were conducted in ‘representative’ conditions. Total darkness - use of emergency lights only, a mixture of passenger ages, sex, wts, etc, and children / babes in arms (dolls). The cabin crew were taken from an airline and did not know which doors would be inop due to fire etc (simulated with an external light) unless previously placarded.
90 sec is a certification requirement, from which the operational industry accepts that real evacuations may be longer, but not disproportionately so.

You may be confusing aspects of payment with the significant research work on cabin design conducted by the late Prof Helen Muir at Cranfield, which sought to understand human behaviour in emergency conditions.

[Mr A Tis]

Exactly what I thought, the bags were just taken from the pax & tagged. I would imagine they could contain laptaps & various stuff not suitable for the hold. I understand from the crew this is pretty common now on full flights to stuff the bags in the hold ASAP. Pax not happy either, as these are not valet tagged but treated as checked bags. I don't enjoy sitting with 50kgs of bags above my head, often held in place by a flimsy latch.

[glad rag]

Just to emphasize the difficulties, one test member suffered a broken leg.

_gqWeJGwV_U

[misd-agin]

basil -
90 sec demonstrated under ideal conditions doesn't mean that it will ever be achieved in practice in a full aircraft.

F/a took part in an emergency evacuation with engine fire that was still burning. Flames forced that side of a/c to be unsafe so evacuation was only on the other side of a/c.

Four exits, one jammed, so actually only three out of 8 exits used. 87 seconds from a/c stopped to last crewmember exiting aircraft.

Filmed from spectator viewing area. Luckily it was the same side that all the passengers evacuated.

Funny, at first the passengers froze. Big guy, probably 6'4" and minimum 260-280 lbs. New Yorker. He started screaming and cursing at them. That's when they started moving! :ok:

[DownIn3Green]

Crewmeal...have another one (crewmeal) and don't worry about it...

lomopaeso...that's why YOU should NEVER sit by an emergency exit, or for that matter be in an emergency exit row...

Why don't you just play "self appointed" traffic warden and direct things yourself???

[ZimmerFly]

As this seems to have become an "Evacuation" thread :).....From the official Japanese report into the China Airlines B737-800 fire at Naha Airport.

It took a little longer than 90 seconds...BUT....everybody escaped (some with hand baggage) and with apparently zero injuries. :eek:

Rather more serious than a wheel fire.

Attachment 6 Emergency Evacuation History
JST
(hh:mm:ss) Contents
10:33:05 C An assistant maintenance engineer informed the cockpit of a fire
breaking on the no.2 engine over the interphone.

10:33:35 C The First Officer notified the Captain of the message as “Crew on
station”.

10:33:40 C The First Officer notified the Captain of the message as “Attention,
crew on station”.

10:33:42 C The Captain executed the passenger announcement as “Attention,
crew on station. Attention, crew on station!”

10:33:46 C The Captain executed the passenger announcement again as
“Attention, crew on station. Attention, crew on station!”

10:33:49 C The Captain began the passenger announcement as “Repeat,…uh..”,
but checked himself.

10:33:52 C The Captain executed the passenger announcement as “Crew…uh…
prepare for evacuation.”

10:33:59 C A cabin crew announced as “Cabin crew, all door in flight. Cabin
crew, all door in flight, door in flight.”

10:34:24 V The first passenger started evacuation by the Slide 3R.
10:34:25 V The Slide 1L was deployed.
10:34:32 V The Slide 1R was deployed.
10:34:36 V The Slide 3L was deployed. Passengers started evacuation by the
10:34:40 C The First Officer started to read out the “EVACUATION” check list.
10:34:52 C The First Officer read out the check list as “[Evacuation] –
10:34:54 C (End of CVR recording)

10:35:42 V The last person evacuating by the Slide 1R landed with ground
support.

10:35:58 V The last person evacuating by the Slide 3R landed.
10:36:00 V The last person evacuating by the Slide 3L landed.
10:36:06 V The last person evacuating by the Slide 1L landed.
10:36:11 V Burst occurred at around under the right wing. (First time)

10:36:12 V The First Officer evacuating via the right cockpit window fell to the
ground.

10:36:20 V The Captain evacuating via the right cockpit window landed and all
persons on board completed evacuation.

C: Contents based on the CVR recording
V: Contents based on the Video recording

*** The time required for the completion of all persons’ evacuation from the captain’s
instruction on preparation of the emergency evacuation: Approximately two minutes
and twenty-eight seconds
*** The time required for the completion of all persons’ evacuation from the start of the
first passenger’s evacuation: Approximately one minute and fifty-six seconds
*** The time required for the evacuation by each door

3R: Approximately one minute and thirty-four seconds
1L: Approximately one minute and forty-one seconds
1R: Approximately one minute and ten seconds
3L: Approximately one minute and twenty-four seconds
• • • • • •
[Note 1] “ 3R” item says the time interval between the start of the first
person’s evacuation and the last person’s landing.
[Note 2] Each item except “3R” item says the time interval between the
completion of the Slide deployment and the last person’s landing.
• • • • • •

Page 116 of 117 (about 5Mb for the .pdf)

http://www.mlit.go.jp/jtsb/eng-air_report/B18616.pdf

2.2 Deaths, Injuries and Missing Persons
No one from among the passengers, crew members and other persons relevant to the accident was injured or killed in the accident.
2.3 Damage to the Aircraft
2.3.1 Extent of Damage
The Aircraft was destroyed by fire and explosions of the wing fuel tanks.

[skidbuggy]

The transcript describes the First Officer as falling as he escaped out his window. Was he injured? Or did he safely egress via the escape rope?