AA 763 @ ORD...PAX Evac.
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AA 763 @ ORD...PAX Evac.
Hi...just saw it on the News »»»
Passengers exit plane on slides at O'Hare after fire | abc7chicago.com
Fortunately no serious injuries but Interesting to follow...
Passengers exit plane on slides at O'Hare after fire | abc7chicago.com
Fortunately no serious injuries but Interesting to follow...
Last edited by JanetFlight; 6th Aug 2011 at 17:23.
Well done to the crew for their positive actions, but as one passenger states
In my day we had to get everyone out in 90 seconds and that was a 747. Any comments?
"Nobody panicked. We went down the slides. They evacuated the whole aircraft within 3 minutes," said passenger Anna Micheles.
blueloo I simply asked the question that's all.
The above quote was taken from the pp cabin crew forum 5 years ago
This is done with non airline employees taking passenger seats and the CAA/FAA conducting an evacuation to see that the f/a's are able to evacuate all the passengers within 90 seconds or less. This is a very common term in the US.
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I suspect that you didn't have
in your day - You had to get them out as fast as you could and as fast as appropriate.
The 90 second thing (using half the exits) is a test conducted as part of the certification of the aircraft: As far as I am aware, it is not now, and never has been, a target for actual evacuation.
Please forgive me if the tone of this post seems somewhat terse: There is no mention of evacuation related passenger injury in the article; the evacuation was apparently successfully conducted. It seems (to me at least) regrettable, that the second post on this thread should seek to criticise from such remote comfort.
to get everyone out in 90 seconds
The 90 second thing (using half the exits) is a test conducted as part of the certification of the aircraft: As far as I am aware, it is not now, and never has been, a target for actual evacuation.
Please forgive me if the tone of this post seems somewhat terse: There is no mention of evacuation related passenger injury in the article; the evacuation was apparently successfully conducted. It seems (to me at least) regrettable, that the second post on this thread should seek to criticise from such remote comfort.
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90 seconds for evacuation
I have long held a theory on this often quoted figure.
I do not believe anyone in power, including the authorities (CAA/FAA) or manufacturers actually expect to be able to evacuate an aeroplane within 90 seconds in the real world. I have always believed the 90 secs is a nominal figure which each manufacturer must demonstrate in strictly controlled conditions, as alluded to in that quote from the cabin crew forum as posted by crewmeal.
I am sure we are all aware that the test tries its very best to simulate potential real life conditions such as making 50% of exits inoperative and night type visuals. They even try to offer inducements (including cash) to some of the "passengers" to encourage them to exit as quickly as possible, making it a competition in effect, to generate disorder and a "rush type" mentality.
How the 90 secs was ever decided upon is probably lost in the history of avaiation (someone out there may know) but it can only ever be a nominal figure because you simply cannot replicate real life scenarios to the degree required in order to "guarantee" a 90 secs evacuation. But the 90 secs is the only figure ever quoted so of course the media, even aviation media, leap upon it at every opportunity, as do many of our peers within the industry.
Trouble is I have never seen this written down anywhere so can't prove it but to my simple brain it makes absolute sense.
I do not believe anyone in power, including the authorities (CAA/FAA) or manufacturers actually expect to be able to evacuate an aeroplane within 90 seconds in the real world. I have always believed the 90 secs is a nominal figure which each manufacturer must demonstrate in strictly controlled conditions, as alluded to in that quote from the cabin crew forum as posted by crewmeal.
I am sure we are all aware that the test tries its very best to simulate potential real life conditions such as making 50% of exits inoperative and night type visuals. They even try to offer inducements (including cash) to some of the "passengers" to encourage them to exit as quickly as possible, making it a competition in effect, to generate disorder and a "rush type" mentality.
How the 90 secs was ever decided upon is probably lost in the history of avaiation (someone out there may know) but it can only ever be a nominal figure because you simply cannot replicate real life scenarios to the degree required in order to "guarantee" a 90 secs evacuation. But the 90 secs is the only figure ever quoted so of course the media, even aviation media, leap upon it at every opportunity, as do many of our peers within the industry.
Trouble is I have never seen this written down anywhere so can't prove it but to my simple brain it makes absolute sense.
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I guess it is a tough call for the Captain to decide whether to risk exploding brakes on a pax evac, or to keep them on board and risk being roasted alive - either way he may get the flak.
Well done to the entire crew for a good outcome.
Well done to the entire crew for a good outcome.
Tightslot
It wasn't a critcism in any way. My point was that when I originally trained back in BOAC days, we were shown a grainy 'PanAm 90 second evac' demo of this being carried out and were expected to do the same if anything happened in the future. All subsequent SEP refresher courses, regardless of fleet highlighted this training. I've just had a look at a previous manual for a UK carrier and I quote
As I said before well done to all the crew for what happened.
It seems (to me at least) regrettable, that the second post on this thread should seek to criticise from such remote comfort.
The law demands that all passenger aircraft shall have a specified number of exits in the passenger cabin, i.e. Doors, emergency windows or
escape hatches, or air stairs together with appropriate escape equipment, (so that with a full passenger load, complete evacuation of the aircraft can be achieved within 90 seconds, and assuming that all the exits on one side of the aircraft are inoperable).
escape hatches, or air stairs together with appropriate escape equipment, (so that with a full passenger load, complete evacuation of the aircraft can be achieved within 90 seconds, and assuming that all the exits on one side of the aircraft are inoperable).
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Crewmeal will now tell us how many times over the years that BOAC/BA have actually evacuated aircraft within 90 seconds. The 90 seconds goal is a certification requirement rather than an operational goal. That any aircraft was evacuated within three minutes (with Std. Mk I SLF) is pretty amazing.
Air France 340 and few other wodebodies were indeed evacuated in less than 90 sec live.
Approximately two-thirds of the passengers evacuated via exit R4. The remainder evacuated via exits L1, R1, and R2, and a few evacuated at exits L2 and R3. It is estimated that the aircraft was evacuated in a little more than two minutes. A number of passengers took their carry-on baggage with them; in view of the urgency to egress rapidly because of the smoke in the cabin and the fire, this action presented a significant risk to safety.
The 90 sec during cert is to demonstrate that that the aircraft can be evacuated in 90 sec by the average passenger.
What happens in real life is up to the passenger and crew.
In the subject incident I would certainly want to take enough time to reduce the chance of injury to myself.
Of course I woud rather not be evacuated down the chutes at all but that's a crew call. I have been aboard an aircraft that did have a wheel fire and while deplaning normally watched the fire trucks spray the wheel.
What happens in real life is up to the passenger and crew.
In the subject incident I would certainly want to take enough time to reduce the chance of injury to myself.
Of course I woud rather not be evacuated down the chutes at all but that's a crew call. I have been aboard an aircraft that did have a wheel fire and while deplaning normally watched the fire trucks spray the wheel.
Trouble with the lo-cos is that cabin baggage is now completely maxed out due to check in costs. Overhead bins used to be for coats, briefcases & an overnight bag- now on a shorthaul aircraft they are probably stuffed with about 2,000kgs of luggage. On my last recent lo co flights 8 cabin bags had to be tagged into the hold as the bins were chokka. Unfortunately, in an evacuation, there will also be some pax trying to drag their bags off.The more bags in the cabin- the more likely they will impede a swift exit.
Any safe evac without injury is a success.
Any safe evac without injury is a success.
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Right,
Regulation to certify an aircraft capable of evacuation of a full load of passengers is usually carried out under test conditions where company employees (familiar with aircraft) participate in the test. The company offers the first 1/3rd of pax (employees) off the aircraft a $100 bill to ensure they make a darn good job of it and get as near to 90secs as humanly possible.
Tell you what, sometimes on my aircraft it takes pax 30 mins to get off after a ULR flight! If I landed and they had to evacuate, I would guess 5 mins would be good going.. pax have shoes off, they put them back on, they grab their belongings, 3 mins to me is very good going!
Regulation to certify an aircraft capable of evacuation of a full load of passengers is usually carried out under test conditions where company employees (familiar with aircraft) participate in the test. The company offers the first 1/3rd of pax (employees) off the aircraft a $100 bill to ensure they make a darn good job of it and get as near to 90secs as humanly possible.
Tell you what, sometimes on my aircraft it takes pax 30 mins to get off after a ULR flight! If I landed and they had to evacuate, I would guess 5 mins would be good going.. pax have shoes off, they put them back on, they grab their belongings, 3 mins to me is very good going!
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On my last recent lo co flights 8 cabin bags had to be tagged into the hold as the bins were chokka.
jack schidt, post # 17. IMHO you are severely misinformed.
Of the several manufacturers’ certification evacuations where I was involved, all were conducted in ‘representative’ conditions. Total darkness - use of emergency lights only, a mixture of passenger ages, sex, wts, etc, and children / babes in arms (dolls). The cabin crew were taken from an airline and did not know which doors would be inop due to fire etc (simulated with an external light) unless previously placarded.
90 sec is a certification requirement, from which the operational industry accepts that real evacuations may be longer, but not disproportionately so.
You may be confusing aspects of payment with the significant research work on cabin design conducted by the late Prof Helen Muir at Cranfield, which sought to understand human behaviour in emergency conditions.
Of the several manufacturers’ certification evacuations where I was involved, all were conducted in ‘representative’ conditions. Total darkness - use of emergency lights only, a mixture of passenger ages, sex, wts, etc, and children / babes in arms (dolls). The cabin crew were taken from an airline and did not know which doors would be inop due to fire etc (simulated with an external light) unless previously placarded.
90 sec is a certification requirement, from which the operational industry accepts that real evacuations may be longer, but not disproportionately so.
You may be confusing aspects of payment with the significant research work on cabin design conducted by the late Prof Helen Muir at Cranfield, which sought to understand human behaviour in emergency conditions.
Bealzebub
Exactly what I thought, the bags were just taken from the pax & tagged. I would imagine they could contain laptaps & various stuff not suitable for the hold. I understand from the crew this is pretty common now on full flights to stuff the bags in the hold ASAP. Pax not happy either, as these are not valet tagged but treated as checked bags. I don't enjoy sitting with 50kgs of bags above my head, often held in place by a flimsy latch.