CargoJet

[lilflyboy262]

Can anyone here give me any information on CargoJet?
Hours? Days off? Pay?

[El_Duderino]

Not good from what I hear........good friend works there, tells me almost everyone is looking to jump ship.

[lilflyboy262]

Not good in what way?

No hours flown? Crap Pay? No days off?... If you could get some details that would be great!

[Flaps 1 billion]

In all honesty, don't bother.

Pay: 38gs for year 1 S/O, goes up about 2% a year
52gs for year 1 F/O, no you won't carry over any time in company

Days off: 12 SDO, scheduled days off, meaning the dirt bag that works in crewsked can and will force you to work more, upwards of 24/month, been there, had the arguments.

Training and all that is paid at full salary from day 1, the training department is full of some fantastic people, lots of experience and lots to learn from. However, when you get home, don't look forward to any actual sked days off until you finish line indoc.

50 people have left in the last 4 years, that's a lot considering they only employ 85 pilots. When the industry picks up, people leave quickly, average of a least 1 a month right now, 3 in May.

As a result, they are only hiring instructors and newly minted pilots from Seneca. Any wise guy can figure out why they're hiring low time pilots, they don't have the time to leave and the carrot dangles for the right seat. Nothing against these new people at all as they're all good people, just the way they do things. When I started, you needed 2500hrs with some multi, not anymore.

Carrot dangling continues, wages are now below par, time at work is well above the other cargo ops, fatigue is rampant with not a care, even when it was brought up to the CEO.

You'll only start in the backseat so time flown doesn't matter, it isn't worth anything to anyone anymore. They've just done a bunch of upgrades to the right seat so don't look for much more. This bunch going to the right seat have been waiting 3+ years. When I started, it was about a year but that was under expansion and massive attrition.

You're much better to find something else, it really is not worth it.

[lilflyboy262]

Thanks for your help :)
Thats the sort of info I was looking for. Need to get some night IFR hours under my belt, was hoping this would be a good place to start!

[WJAPilot]

Flying the Piano bench seat wont help you log any IFR time other than S/O which wont really set you up for a successful long term career.

Weigh your options carefully before thinking a 727 is a fast track to the airlines....

WJP

[lilflyboy262]

Not really interested in the airlines. I've been a bush pilot in Africa for the past few years, now looking for a change in scenery and change in job description.
By the time I get there I will have around 2000hrs, a few hundred twin and around 600 turboprop.

I've got two reason why I want to try this company out, the first being a friend whos working in ground handling there. Everything I have heard from her seemed like it was a quite a good company to work for.
The second being that I'm still young and looking at giving myself a broad and varied CV for both my own personal satisfaction, and for future career prospects.
How much longer will you get the chance to fly aircraft like the 727 and the 757? In another 10 years they will be relegated to flying in my current part of the world.

@ Flaps 1 billion,
Where is the majority of the pilot attrition taking place? Is it the S/Os that are getting depressed with sitting in the back doing nothing? Or is it spread through the ranks with Captains and F/O's throwing in the towel as well? That is the biggest clue as to what its like to work with them.

[PJ_Slick]

Mostly senior F/O's leaving and a captain every 5 or 6 months or so. Good training, great aircraft, crap sched on top of an all nights operation. So if you go,plan on it being a a short scheduled stop onwards to somewhere else. Back seat time is interesting,and a nice introduction to a large jet, expect to be there anywhere from 1-3 years.You just don't want to be in that seat when the music stops and the last '27 becomes beer cans.

[perplexing]

Flaps 1 Billion
Post subject: Re: I'm Stuck
Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:48 am
Life isn't easy buddy, no one ever said it would be. It's hard out there these days, for a lot of people, but hard work, patience and perseverance is the name of the game. IF you thought you'd have a job right out of training, you were mis lead or too hopeful. I don't know your background or what you did before but we all have out stories of hard times so let's leave that aside for now.
If you don't want to fly for a living, suck up that 30gs you just forked out for everything and go spend another 40 for more education.
If you do want to fly for a living, keep at it. Make those calls, hit the road, call on friends for help. Put some yourself to use and get yourself a job. Moaning about it on a website won't get you much, though if I could help I would. Get out there, make something happen, don't pack it in so quick.
Life isn't easy, no one ever said it would be.
Tough love.
http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=57571&p=544533#p544533

[Flaps 1 billion]

I'm not sure what you're asking, Perplexing? Why search a post I made over 2 years ago on a different site about a completely different subject? The avcan post was about a guy that had been out of flying school for a couple weeks and ready to pull the plug on the career. I told him it's a long road and no one said it would be easy.

This post was asking about Cargojet, I company I worked at for 4 years. I posted my honest opinion of the place along with factual info about money, sked and upgrades.

I'm perplexed why you dug up such an old post from a diff site. Anyway, as I said before, don't bother with this company, there is a reason why so many people are leaving.

[perplexing]

No question asked, just providing an opportunity for consistency in your opinion and for re-stating some of your wise advice.

[Flaps 1 billion]

Ah, understood.

[perplexing]

Flaps, based on your comments, it must be good to be out of there.

[Flaps 1 billion]

You have no idea.

[perplexing]

In that case everyone is happier now.

[single chime]

old info, is it still the same?

[WJAPilot]

NO

A recent new contract, unionization and a lot of growth on the horizon make the place not so bad from what I hear -


Buddies with a captain there so all second hand info.

They are also recruiting DEC WB fleet.

[J.O.]

They are also recruiting DEC WB fleet.

There's a way to build loyalty.

[altiplano]

They poached the Purolator/Canada Post contract from Flightcraft recently. Should see some growth when it moves over.

[Avtur]

Do they have FEs on the their 727 fleet ? If so, whats the pay and future like?

[Willie Everlearn]

They "poached" the contract from KFC?????
Poached? Seriously?

I think contracts are usually bid for. When it comes to government contracts they're rarely for life. I'm sure all players (those interested in bidding) are well aware of that.
I don't think you meant to use the reference "poached". It implies somebody stole something from somebody that wasn't really theirs.

Flight Engineers or second officers?
Not the same thing.
Flight Engineers have long been the endangered species in aviation (unfortunately) and left the flight deck ages ago. Second officers are like an inconvenient truth. Carriers don't really want a third crew member but their hands are tied by the AFM.
Antiques like the B727 were designed for American carriers who didn't want F/Es but wanted cheaper, quicker to train S/Os instead of the professional F/E.
As for your future as either, probably for as long as they operate the B727s.
Consider this, if you operate as an S/O and those aircraft leave the fleet before you get a window seat yer fuct and lucky if you get to claim 1/2 the seat time. Great seat for a low time pilot to acquire line ops knowledge and experience.
But, I suggest if you end up in that position to keep your head in the game.
You can learn a lot as a stagecoach driver.

Good luck.
Willie :ok:

[altiplano]

Yeah, seriously. Lighten up.

In modern speech, words can often take a broader meaning from a narrow literal interpretation.

Point is that it was KFCs contract for years, I doubt they expected to lose it and it's an obvious gain for CJ.

[Willie Everlearn]

Ah, Grasshopper.
It sounds like you have much to learn about the world of contracts and how fickle they can be. Especially in Canadian aviation.
You're right. KFC did hold it for years and it would appear some bureaucrat noticed. Prompting a change. New contract. New contractor.
Enter Cargojet.

I agree with your point that CJ should see an increase in their crew requirements. Which is always good for the industry, eh?

Your attempt at suggesting modern speech gives you additional latitude with the simple meaning of poached in the context in which you used it is amusing, but alright. Poached. I get your gist.

There. I'm much lighter now.

Willie :ok:

[altiplano]

Gist will do.

I think the KFC bossman is/was on the Purolator board and has a significant ownership stake too so you kinda figure bit of backrooming ensures the contract might have stayed put.

[steemer100]

Has anyone been interviewed or hired yet? Sent my cv into HR awhile ago and still no response.

[lilflyboy262...2]

Good friend of mine may have just been hired there. They have been interviewing for the past few weeks.