Flying in Europe versus the USA in a nutshell

[Plasmech]

I imagine many of you have flown both in Europe and the USA. I understand that this question very well *could* be answered in maybe 2,500 pages but may I kindly ask: what are the MAIN differences between flying in Europe versus the USA, pertaining to the following talking points:

1. aircraft
2. private pilot training
3. airspace
4. FAA versus ______?
5. security
6. public acceptance of GA?

For example, pertaining to #6, here in the US, many feel that small airfields are nothing more than playgrounds for the "rich people" and all the middle class get out of it is the buzzing sound of single pistons coming through their windows at dinnertime.

For those that have flown in both theaters, which one do you like better, and why? Thanks for any replies. I am hoping some day to make a trip to Europe and do some flying on my own to explore the countryside.

[englishal]

I prefer the USA. Everything is easier, you can fly pretty much where you want (with appropriate clearances), you can land pretty much where you want whenever you want (airports may close, but you can still use the airport), and the end user fees are much more reasonable.

However, flying over the green fields of a Europe in summer does have its wonderful moments too, so I recommend comming over and having a go ;)

[Plasmech]

You cannot land at an airfield with a closed office? What prevents you from doing this, do they put obstacles on the runway?

[Fuji Abound]

1 Aircraft, more variety in America, prices a little less, but no where near as much as they were, training fleets on the whole in better condition,

2 Training, not that much between the two - some good, some bad as always, although the American approach to IRs is WAY better,

3 Different, but then the UK is different from France is different from many other European countries BUT the airspace in American operates in a more intuitive and seamless way,

4 FAA, CAA, EASA - the FAA are very good, the CAA are equally good, EASA (about to take over from the CAA) havent a clue and will cause much damage to GA this side of the Pond unless someone sorts them out soon,

5 Security - not a lot of difference, the security at large airports is I guess very similiar the world over (or at least that is the theory) and the security at grass strips - well no existant - it is the same here and the same your side of the Pond in my experience at least,

6 In France they love GA, everyone comes out to enjoy watching the aircraft, in the UK I think there is pretty good acceptance spolied by a small group who cant understand that having purchased a house next to an airfield that there are aircraft. Strange bunch.

I prefer the USA. In Europe everything stops at 18-00 (if you are lucky) and doesnt start until at least 0800 (if you are very lucky). We are obsessed even more than you with Health and Safety and with providing as second rate service as we can. We live in or close to a big continent (almost as big as yours) but contrive to make the seamless integration of air transport as difficult as we can. Dont believe we lot are a federal state of Europe the divisions in Europe are about as big as they have ever been.

On the flip side we speak proper English on the radio, still know how to keep a stiff upper lip, and are not adverse to the odd Tally Ho or an occasional silk scarf old boy.

[IO540]

One would have to write reams to even begin to answer this usefully.

[Jan Olieslagers]

7. R/T would cover a ream of paper in itself. Just the most obvious: Altimeter 29.87 inches vs. QNH 1013. Much more folklore is available, and for increased entertainment there's plenty of regional differences within Europe (we are indeed VERY far from being one integral region!) including many places where only local language is used.

[patowalker]

including many places where only local language is used.

... and that can mean 3 different languages in one country :)

[IO540]

The biggest things I hear from IFR pilots from the USA are

- the impenetrable Eurocontrol route validation system (which has basically put $ millions into the pockets of Jepp and other flight service providers, without achieving anything else because ATC do not operate it on the flight)

- the airport restrictions (opening hours, PPR, PNR Customs, etc)

- the often massive airport charges, with $800 being quite common with the big ones

Americans do face some of "our" issues on the very rare occassions they leave the US mainland. On US pilot forums they moan about hassle when flying to Canada, the Bahamas, etc. I think some 99% of US piston pilots don't ever leave US airspace.

[Zulu Alpha]

One would have to write reams to even begin to answer this usefully


In the US its your right to be able to fly

In the UK its a privilege to be able to fly

Just about sums it up.

[stickandrudderman]

The main advantage that flying in Europe offers is the fact that there are so many differences in geography, attitudes and cultures over relatively small distances.
It's this diversity that makes Europe such an interesting place, if a little challenging due to the increased beaurocracy that international borders offer.
If you want to go flying just so you can be at the controls of an aeroplane, the USA is better, but if you want to go flying so you can explore, Europe is unmatchable.
Nothing beats having breakfast in England, lunch in France and dinner in Switzerland!

[jxc]

Nothing beats having breakfast in England, lunch in France and dinner in Switzerland!

That sounds great I am free in the morning

[maxred]

If I had to answer this question a couple of years ago it would have been a definite US, by far, however, I have recently completed a couple of 'round robin' UK trips, and my perceptions may have changed.

Some of my trip was IFR, some VFR. Airfields in the trip include White Waltham, Dunkenswell, Perranporth, Sciliy Isles, Caernarvon, Haverford West.

Without exception I found a real welcome, good food, relatively cheap landing fees, parking, assistance for onward travel/stay, and everyone helpful - including transit ATC, airfield personnel, met facilities, et al. My view is that a lot of UK GA, is improving, modeling on US style GA airfields. The level of service is also rising, one could argue it might not have got any worse, however, the standard is high and getting higher.

The US is excellent, however, rising fuel may impact this, plus the NIMBY brigade chasing airfield closures, I last flew in the US last year, Los Angeles (Van Nuys), and noticed a slight downward movement in service, the flying however, was great.

I will be the first to bang on about regulation/maintenance/ATC issues, however, mu most recent trips have actually been very positive

[IO540]

Nothing beats having breakfast in England, lunch in France and dinner in Switzerland!Now, if you had a proper plane like a TB20 :) you could have a late breakfast in England and an early lunch in Switzerland.

I think one can achieve the same geographic diversity in the USA as the above example, quite easily. Think of Bryce Canyon, Yosemite, Monument Valley, etc. The USA is not short of spectacular scenery.

What you won't quite get is the population diversity, perhaps, because they all speak English (more or less) and all are proud to be American (more or less).

Whether this matters is according to one's taste. How many pilots would trade the ability to just fly from a small (but H24) airfield in the UK to a small (but H24) airfield in Switzerland, Croatia, etc, without having to sod around with

- opening hours
- Customs
- avgas availability
- PPR
- PNR
- all kinds of other crap like duff airport contact numbers/emails

and be able to

- fly VFR up to 17999ft
- get easy CAS transits through all airspace
- have no Class A below 18000ft
- get a unified radar service all the way
- approx half the operating costs of European flying

I think most would prefer the USA :)

The daft thing is that Europe could also have most of the above - if there was a will to do it.

The biggest downside of the USA is the awful crap food which most people there eat. It is no wonder they are even bigger than modern-day Brits. Unless you live in certain places on the east or west coast, it is hard to find edible and healthy food. And you won't find it in any hotel, IME.

[IO540]

I am thinking of decent clean fresh fruit and veg. Nothing fancy. It's not easy to find.

Most restaurant food is relatively unhealthy - everywhere except Greece etc :)

When I was doing the IR in the USA (Phoenix) I cycled to a supermarket and bought a load of lettuce and tomatoes etc and made my own sandwiches for the day. All the food in restaurants there was stodgy crap. When I was on holidays there 20 years ago I used to gain a few kg in 3 weeks, just eating the hotel stuff. This is what I don't get about America; they are not stupid or poor but they drive themselves into an early grave by eating this stuff.

[thing]

Yeah but I bet they don't have a pensions crisis. I doubt their government really minds them eating crap.

[fernytickles]

One thing you don't, or very rarely, get in the US is the aerial archeology.

I loved flying around at home of an early evening spotting where walls of old buildings or Roman camps had been. I miss not being able to see anything like that here in the US.

[stevelup]

...I have recently completed a couple of 'round robin' UK trips...

...good food...

Do you -really- mean that? Food at UK airfields is, on the whole, mediocre at best and in many cases truly awful.

[englishal]

If you like Bacon Butties and the Full English, then British airfields are the best. However if you are after a salad, Buffalo Burger, Carne Asada or fried Scorpions (Santa Monica) then the USA is definitely better.

I would avoid the "Giant Burger" of Laughlin though, I once had one, and it was like a Big Mac the size of a dinner plate. The last half (that I couldn't eat) stank the Seneca out on the trip to Sedona.....

Topography of the western USA is unbeatable. Islands, mountains, high desert plains, desert, heat and snow....all in one day.

[unmanned transport]

Generally truck stops in the US have excellent buffet type of food.
This thread is starting to make me hungry regardless of the kind of chow!

[unmanned transport]

Being an expat for many years now, I love it here since I do not have to pay for a weather report, do not have to pay for navigation and landing fees etc. And relatively cheap fuel as well. I love to explore this big continent with lots of blue sky days in my Cessna.

[Asrian]

What silvaire said!
Here in Germany single engine pistons are considered rich peoples toys that are unneccessary and only cause noise and pollution. At the moment there are several strong and very vocal citizen movements fighting for the closure of some smaller (and also some big) airports. Almost no support from politics because private pilots are a small minority not relevant to politicians.
Very expensive AVGas and maintenace costs. Lots of regulations.
At some areas regular calls from hostile residents near small airports with noise complaints.
Sure, You can physically land at a small but officially closed airport in the evening, but You'll get in legal trouble then.
On the positive side: growing segment of the ultralight/VLA class with several new ultralight planes developed by european companies. Less operating and maintenace costs. Especially learning to fly a gyrocopter seems to be in fashion these days...