Unairworthy Antonov AN-12 crashes in the Republic of the Congo.

[Super VC-10]

Antonov An-12 TN-AGK crashed in Pointe Noire, Republic of the Congo yesterday. The aircraft had been listed as unworthy by the ICAO in July 2006. A number of people were killed, including all four crew, five illegal passengers (An-12 banned from use as a passenger aircraft in RoC) and a number on the ground.

ASN Aircraft accident Antonov 12BP TN-AGK ? Pointe Noire Airport (PNR) (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20110321-0)
Crash: Trans Air Congo AN12 at Pointe-Noire on Mar 21st 2011, impacted houses on landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=439b1572)
Congo Sets up Team to Investigate Plane Crash (http://english.cri.cn/6966/2011/03/22/2741s627867.htm)
Cargo plane crashes in Republic of Congo city, at least 19 dead Breaking News | Wire Update News | News Wires - (http://wireupdate.com/wires/16031/cargo-plane-crashes-in-republic-of-congo-city-at-least-19-dead/)
AFP: At least 19 dead after plane crashes in Congo city (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hTGHT8Hs_aYg-89Kh9eYw8b7GoEA?docId=CNG.a807bd69f3debaa7a6b4ca2383f9500b.1 a1)
BBC News - Congo: Cargo plane crashes in Pointe-Noire, killing 16 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12812231)

[Piltdown Man]

How unusual, an aircraft crash in DRC.

[wes_wall]

A TV cameraman who saw the crash was quoted as saying that the pilot had been able to get out of the cockpit before the plane came to a rest

Now, how is that possible?

[doubleu-anker]

How very unusual an un airworthy aircraft flew in the DRC.

[GarageYears]

Quote:
A TV cameraman who saw the crash was quoted as saying that the pilot had been able to get out of the cockpit before the plane came to a rest
Now, how is that possible?

Er, you've seen the pics in the news reports right? There was no cockpit left... I guess that was your point?

[JanetFlight]

How unusual, an aircraft crash in DRC.

How very unusual an un airworthy aircraft flew in the DRC.

AFAIK last time i went to Point Noire was not in the DRC...but world keeps turning:rolleyes:

[Gerard13]

Pictures of the crash, from a Congolese blog:

Congo : crash d'un avion cargo sur Pointe-Noire | Un Congo dé-chaîné et indépendant (http://congo-dechaine.info/content/congo-crash-dun-avion-cargo-sur-pointe-noire)

[GarageYears]

Pointe-Noire is the second largest city in the Republic of the Congo

As opposed to the neighboring Democratic Republic of the Congo... I guess the Republic of the Congo is not democratic :uhoh:

Otherwise not much different would be my guess.

[oopspff7]

Video clip on Daily Telegraph website.

[Starbear]

As oopspff7 says:

Video in Daily Telegraph-UK (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/congo/8399473/Final-moments-before-Congo-plane-crash-captured.html)

[widebody69]

Just goes to show with 'witness statements'. Obviously this witness never saw the crash.

[Machinbird]

Anyone see any exhaust from the Starboard engines?
See how the exhausts from the port engines diverge under the influence of local airflow as the aircraft rolls.

[lomapaseo]

I got to admit I was surprised to see a transport aircraft roll over on its back during approach.

I'll leave it to the aero guys to comment

My inital thoughts are significant asymetrical thrust at too low a speed or;
just too low a speed and a stalled wing,

There might be some clues in these clips

http://fromtheflightdeck.com/MEL/PPRune/Antov.jpg

[iceman50]

Watching the video it looks as though the two starboard props are just windmilling! So a two engine out approach, below Vmca / too much thrust and nowhere to go to get speed?

[Super VC-10]

That sounds at least plausible. Is the An-12 capable of sustaining flight on the port engines only?

[lambert]

On these aircraft, smoke from an engine means it is running, no smoke means it is not!

[samusi01]

If, indeed, it is a strobing effect there may be a significant difference in prop RPM between the port/starboard engines as the strobing would appear to be limited to one side.

[Super VC-10]

In answer to my earlier question, Aviation Herald now saying that the failure of both engines on one side would produce asymmetric thrust in excess of the rudder's ability to counteract it. :(

[flysebi]

I don't exclude that was about an asimetrical engine torque...but it's possible that an aileron was blocked...so that the aircraft rolled over...

[lomapaseo]

In answer to my earlier question, Aviation Herald now saying that the failure of both engines on one side would produce asymmetric thrust in excess of the rudder's ability to counteract it.

That's nothing more than a "would of", could-of" that they probably read here.

Are there any additional facts to support this?

[stepwilk]

"There is nothing inherent in a engine out scenario that causes the plane to roll on it's back."

You can't be serious. Are you a pilot?

[Machinbird]

There is nothing inherent in a engine out scenario that causes the plane to roll on it's back.Probably a pilot but not multi-engine rated.:*

I thank lomapaseo for his excellent screen capture work, it really makes it easy to discuss what happened.
I concur with the majority of posters on this thread. The fans on the starboard wing are not under power. Both props on the port wing are putting out a lot of power-you can tell from the exhaust trails diverging and from the rapid nose down yaw at the 90 degree roll point. There was no effort to chop power on the good side (no decrease in density of the smoke trail), so the guy flying was behind the aircraft mentally.
The proximate cause of the loss of control was a mis-handling of the loss of engine power on the starboard wing. The reasons for the dual engine loss of power on the starboard wing are unknown at present. It would be interesting to know when the engine failures occurred.
At least that is my personal opinion of the accident. Unfortunately, it is improbable that the accident will be fully investigated.
You may fire when ready Gridley:rolleyes::}.

[cavok73]

At some ex-soviet era cargo planes the engines are with the FE, right?
A crew with no training, no CRM, in an unarworthy aircraft...

If I am wrong please let me know.

[Machaca]

An-12 has no center console/power quadrant -- instead a passageway for the navigator to reach his station.

Set of throttles and trim wheel outboard of each pilot's seat.

[mATT84DC]

hi guys, I wanna ask your opinion about the causes of the crash..
I mean, I agree with you about the engines out, but ..why both engines on the same side??
it seems something more then a casuality, maybe also a human error in managing the emergency?
pls let me know what you think..
Matt

[Machinbird]

Matt, you give your location as DRC, so I assume in some proximity to the crash.

Without a full accident investigation, you are unlikely to learn the reasons for the accident.

Engine power loss could be a result of bad maintenance or fuel contamination, low fuel, or even bad switchology in the cockpit.

The initial loss of control was apparently not responded to by the PF and allowed to continue. How the aircraft arrived in its predicament is unknown, so we do not know how much time the crew had to react to their problems and prepare for an approach.

That the aircraft was not considered airworthy is still another issue, but is indicative of the willingness of the operators to bend regulations to suit themselves. This means that no manufacturers support was available, and no government oversight of operations. In essence, an accident waiting to happen.

[romeo2die4]

hi guys this accident is very sad i have seen the crew many times im based in pointe noire and i had landed about two before the antonov 12 there were 4 to 5 miles final rwy 17 when they tried to make to the sea because the engines right side both flamed out and they did not make it. i think they flamed out from fuel starvation no other reason two engines flame out at the same time. minimum fuel to brazaville and back to take more payload. even there take off is scary its get airborne at the very of end of the rwy and it barely climbs. very sad rest in peace

[Machinbird]

minimum fuel to brazaville and back to take more payload. even there take off is scary its get airborne at the very of end of the rwy and it barely climbs.


Brazzaville is listed as 10800 feet paved runway. Field elevation just over 1000 feet!

[threemiles]

two before the antonov 12t

means 6 or 7 hours before the accident, unless it happened in a microsoft fs

[Bleedvalve]

Maybe he was saying that the antanov was the second aircraft landing after they've landed. Not time related but number of aircraft related.
Yes these guys do take the minimal fuel to do a trip. They overload totally and use all of the runways to get airborne. Scary to watch these rambo's operating..........

[Machinbird]

Anyone know where the AN-12 fuel pickup point is in the tanks?
Normally, fuel pickups permit consuming the last of the fuel while flying in a nose up (ie landing) attitude but not necessarily in a nose down attitude. Dropping the flaps at the upper end of the allowed airspeed range while light on fuel could conceivably un-port the fuel pickups at a very inconvenient time.

[Metro man]

From memory, approaches are flown with the outboard engines at idle and power supplied by the inboards in order to maintain airflow over the elevators.

I can't think of any western type which needs to do this.

[lambert]

Actually, they don't always leave their base with minimum fuel. Have seen similair aircraft at remote Angolan airfields defueling into plastic cans and selling it to the locals to use in their Primus stoves - it's only paraffin after all! Then they call for priority on arrival back in Luanda.