How many VFR flying days in the UK year

[IanPZ]

Hi all,

So, I was sitting in my room, reading through the details of my next lesson, and doing some homework on air law, and rules around keeping current, and this thought occurred to me.

How many days in an average UK year is it actually possible to fly VFR

I suppose this is somewhat influenced (somewhat? Ha!!) by the fact that I am learning at weekends, and since December 2010, have logged a grand total of 1.7 hours. More lessons have been canceled due to bad weather than have been flown, to the extent that my instructor is starting to think I have a career in being paid to stay away from airfields (see Rob McKenna, from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, book 4).

So, with all this knowledge and experience on the forums, and me giving longing glances at adverts telling me to "Learn in southern spain, where there are over 300 flying days a year", I'd love to get your opinions.

If I had any idea how to make this a poll (I don't think you can do that on this site) I would, but in the meantime, c'mon, let me know your thoughts.

Ta. IPZ

[Jan Olieslagers]

Not really an answer, but two points I remember:

-) here in Belgium, glider pilots count on an average of 50 flyable days per annum, or so I was told by one of them. Of course gliders are most demanding of all, regarding weather.
-) for PPL/LSA flying, make a distinction between flying circuits and flying over land: more than once I had planned an overland navigation exercise, only to be told by my dear instructor the weather was barely sufficient for some nice circuit training, but leaving the circuit was not a good idea.

[peter272]

The problem for you is that you are having lessons at the weekend. There are 104 days available and you have to fit in with other students.

I've heard it estimated that there is a 60% chance of any day being affected by weather, so that brings it down to 62 days. Take a stab that you will miss around 6 weekends a year through sickness, holidays or family duties makes it 50 days.

If you take a different approach, esp once you have your licence, and make yourself available when the weather is good, then you can maximise your flying.

I went from around 15 hours per year to over 100 taking that approach, and if it wasn't for threats from the bank manager it would be a lot more.

[IO540]

The answer will depend on how far you want to fly, and to some extent on where you fly to.

If you could fly every day of the year, my "go" estimate would be as follows for a day trip:

- a short local flight; 75%
- a 200nm flight; 50%
- a 800nm flight; 30% (obviously you would not fly back the same day on this one)

The reason it drops is that you are more likely to encounter sub-VFR weather.

It will also drop if you want to come back the following day, because there is a high chance of a nice day being followed by a bad one.

Equally there is a high chance of a bad day being followed by a good one, and your despatch rate improves massively if you can set aside 2 or 3 consecutive days for getting away. With 3 days it will be close to 100%.

I don't think there is much difference between the summer and the winter, but in Oct/Nov it will be worse due to the constant warm fronts (rain/drizzle). In the winter you get some bad wx, but in the summer you get some very hazy days (OK if you use a GPS and are a competent instrument pilot).

By all means learn in Spain, but consider this:

If you pitch up a tent next to a UK airfield and fly solidly for 2 months, and start say April, you will get your PPL pretty quick. But almost nobody does this; UK pilots try to fit the training around their life, etc, and together with disorganised schools, planes broken, etc, it drags out, to an average of 1 year. Whereas if you go to the USA, or Spain, it will be a full time project, with no messing around (it will not be a holiday). You will be sh*agged out every day.

Try to learn in the same type of plane which you are likely to be renting after you have your PPL. This will save you a huge amount of time and money, and you will be a better and safer pilot.

Incidentally, if you get an IR then my estimate for the above 3 percentages is about 75% for all 3, assuming no de-icing equipment and a 18000ft operating ceiling.

[IanPZ]

Thanks for the thoughts so far.

Thank God I didn't think about gliding. 50 days a year, yikes!

IO, I think for me, right at the beginning of the process, nothing is going to be that far away. In fact, I've started with the NPPL microlight route and a Eurostar, as that's what interests me right now. I suppose that puts me in the 75% bracket.

I'm fairly sure that when (if?) I get a license, I'll just buy into the club eurostar, as its fairly close by (and not costly).

As for not flying weekends, you have a good point Peter. I'm trying to learn to fly at the same time as still pushing my career forwards, which means i'm in that eternal trade off between holiday time, weekends and work. I'm currently trying to see if there's flexibility so that on days when its good flying, and no previous work commitments, I can head out to the airfield. Club seems to be very busy evenings (in the summer) and weekends, but quite quiet on Wednesdays and Thursdays

Anyway, keep it coming. Must be other thoughts out there. Ta IPZ

[Gertrude the Wombat]

It depends also on where you are in the course.

There's no point in a student having a lesson if they're in the circuit and crosswinds are beyond the club's student limit ... but that might be a perfectly good day for a cross country with the instructor doing the landing. (I certainly had some IMC rating lessons on days when I wasn't going to, and didn't, attempt to land the aircraft.)

But if you're needing to do some cross country flying and the cloud base is 1' above the circuit height you get cancelled even though it's a flat calm.

Both result in cancelled lessons, but both are actually perfectly good days for some VFR flying, just not the flying that was next on that student's schedule. On both days, at a different point in the course, some upper air work could be done, with the instructor doing the crosswind landing or going up and down through the clouds.

[IanPZ]

Gertrude, That was what we tried last lesson. First 30 mins went well, but then the cloud base had dropped to such a level that we were left with almost no space to fly between ground clearance and cloud base. The instructor tried to go up through gaps, but given we are flying in a microlight (and need to be able to see the ground, even if we are above a broken layer of cloud) there was too much cloud for it to be safe....so back down and give up.

I suppose where my question is coming from is more related to after I pass. Am I going to be stuck with only a few hours per month maximum for flying, due to weather, and once I bring my own schedule for other stuff in, will I get time to fly at all?

I think what Peter was saying is the direction I'll have to go eventually. Once I don;'t need an instructor, and therefor don't have to fit to his schedule, I'll just steal days as and when I can around work.

Truth is this is a long term hobby as far as I am concerned, and yet another thing for that list of "do it now, start enjoying it, and have yet another thing to do when I retire"....and I have a few years to go till that :-)

[Fuji Abound]

More than you might imagine.

The trouble is most people become uncomfortable flying low - and rightly so. How much time do we spend at 650 feet? In reality there are few days you cant stay below the base over great distance. Whether you are comfortable or adequately trained to do so is another matter.

[mary meagher]

Ian, don't panic! Jan Olieslager is talking about flying days in BELGIUM!

We do a lot better than that in our gliding club near Banbury, which is about as far from the sea as you can get in the UK. If you have a look at our website, we flew EVERY DAY THIS WEEK! (Shenington Gliding Club)

In fact, on Friday, there was thermal soaring!!!! in January. And we do ridge soaring, but when April arrives and the days grow longer, we think of casting off the surly bonds of local soaring and go for those cross country flights.
My longest flight in the UK was 511 k, took me 8 hours and 53 minutes. Try that in your spam can!

So don't overlook gliding. We do it because its fun. And challenging.

[IanPZ]

Fuji, I have a sneaky feeling that given where I fly from, sandwiched between London, Stanstead and Luton, I am going to get very good at flying between the ground (400ft AMSL) and the London TMA (2500ft)

And Mary, thanks for that. I want to learn in a microlight, but maybe I should just come up to Banbury and have some fun in gliders for a day. Looks awesome

[Gertrude the Wombat]

but given we are flying in a microlight (and need to be able to see the ground
Ah! - then it also depends on the aircraft. You get more days on which lessons are possible in a aeroplane which doesn't need to be able to see the ground. Although I will agree that this is at the margins, and doesn't meet your original question about VFR days.

I'm sure I had a lesson once which consisted of stalling above cloud, then steep descending turns once we'd found a hole to go back down through (if there hadn't been a hole the instructor would have done an instrument approach).

[Rod1]

VFR minima depend on the type of license you have. In the UK, with an IMCR, you can remain VFR in conditions which would be outside VFR with a vanilla PPL. With experience and the right equipment the VFR rules allow flight in very poor conditions, but it is not something to try 5 min after passing your license. With this approach it is possible to do better than IO’s numbers, but do not push it to get back if things have deteriorated too far.

Rod1

[John R81]

When I trained for PPL in UK it was (H).

As a result.....

No days lost to waterlogged runways
Viz minima "adequate for speed" (now changed! but still less than fixed wing)
Even with cloud at 600 AGL there was always hover square / quick stops / etc

As a result - I lost only 1 flight day (weekend) in 13 months. That was due to snow.

[Whirlygig]

Aw now John R81, it's not fair for us heli chap(esse)s to gloat .... :E But who said life was fair. :} Tee hee.

Cheers

Whirls

[IO540]

You can always improve your despatch rate by

- marginal VFR
- illegal VFR
- accepting a high chance of a diversion
- for those instrument-capable, converting a VFR flight into an IFR flight (in the UK, you generally have to remain OCAS all the same though; no way to get a full enroute IFR clearance)

and all these are done routinely, but you need to know what you are doing.

On straight legal VFR planning (e.g. tafs and metars along the route saying you will be legit VFR) you won't do much better than my figures. You won't achieve 90% for sure, over a year.

[soaringhigh650]

no way to get a full enroute IFR clearance


Bad capacity management? Surely there must be something though... If someone can sit on the ground, create a route using the appropriate software, and file the flight plan with Eurocontrol?

[IO540]

Indeed; one highly esoteric approach would be to file a Eurocontrol flight plan using a satellite internet connection, while in the air, with a ZZZZ (not necessarily ZZZZ but you get the idea) departure and then calling up London Information to pick up the IFR clearance :)

The central issue appears to be that the UK doesn't have a way to efficiently insert an IFR flight plan into the enroute system. Other countries have bought the software but the UK hasn't.

[007helicopter]

a 800nm flight; 30% (obviously you would not fly back the same day on this one)

Only in a failrly slow plane like your's, you would be fine in somthing more capable like an SR22

[IanPZ]

So, what do I know so far?

Well, if I go gliding in Belgium, I can expect a 86% chance of getting cancelled due to weather....interesting, but I am in London

IO tells me 75% chance of flying, which is great, cos that means I only have 1 more lesson to be cancelled, and statistically, I'll never have another lesson missed. Somehow, I think thats statistics playing silly games with me :-)

Oh yes, and a flurry of information that means I should have learned IFR flying on helicopters.

However, coming back to Peter's calculations, if there are 52 weekends in the year, you guys out there must have a gut feeling (and I know a lot of you are NPPL, PPL without IMC or flying VFR only planes/microlights) as to how many weekends a month you actually get to fly, and for how long....

C'mon, get your log books out, and tell me how 2010 went for you. As a trainee NPPL, can I expect to even get my 12 hours per 24 months once I pass, if I only fly weekends?

So, what do you think? Any advance on 75% (which I would be really happy with).

Ta. IPZ

[IO540]

Only in a failrly slow plane like your's, you would be fine in somthing more capable like an SR22

HOHOHOHO :)

IO tells me 75% chance of flying, which is great, cos that means I only have 1 more lesson to be cancelled, and statistically, I'll never have another lesson missed. Somehow, I think thats statistics playing silly games with me :-)

I may have misunderstood your Q but the chance of a cancelled lesson is much higher than the chance of a cancelled flight once you have a PPL.

Lessons can be cancelled due

- visibility below 10km (a PPL can legally fly in 3km, especially with a GPS)
- gusty winds making learning poor value for money (if your instructor is honest)
- planes going "tech"
- plane or instructor not available
etc

can I expect to even get my 12 hours per 24 months once I pass, if I only fly weekends?

Easily.

I was flying 150hrs+ on a PPL+IMCR and the UK average is believed to be of the order of 30hrs/year and I think the main limiting factor is funding, so if you are around at weekends, 50-100hrs/year should be easy, weekends only.

[Fuji Abound]

IO tells me 75% chance of flying, which is great, cos that means I only have 1 more lesson to be cancelled, and statistically, I'll never have another lesson missed. Somehow, I think thats statistics playing silly games with me :-)


An experienced pilot flying in marginal VFR is one thing (with an IFR get out of trouble) and weather suitable for training is another.

I can and will fly low in pretty marginal weather - yes scud running - it is kind of fun and I have an IFR get out of jail card. However it is not the sort of thinking to undertake lightly because it can be a recipe for disaster.

[Lister Noble]

To answer your original post.
I started to learn August 2005 and obtained my PPL May 2006,learning at a club that only flew Friday,Saturday and Sunday,and it took me 53 hours.(not to show off,but to allow you to see how many days were cancelled due to weather)
But every year is different.:)

Most decent clubs will only let you do two one hour lessons a day.
Learning to fly in the UK does allow you to see and fly most weather conditions,doing it in a sunshine state/country,you can maybe bash it out in a month,but miss all the other experience.
Your choice and Good luck
Lister

[IanPZ]

IO, sorry for the confusion. I did mean once I pass. I realise there are a whole load of other factors that cause cancelled lessons whilst learning.

But again, you have IMC, which by the time I pass anything, wont exist. So of that 150+ hours you do, how much of that is in VMC, and at weekends?

Fuji, I think I want to be thinking conservative with any flying I do once I pass, until I have more experience under my belt.

Lister, yes, totally agree with you about learning in the UK. I learned to sail in teh UK, and that put me in much better stead for sailing most places, cos the UK is more challenging than most. Same with flying.

I just suppose, like all students, I can't wait to have a license, and dream of having the freedom to fly when I want....and this winter so far has brought me back to reality with a thud, realising there is so much more than "when I want" involved....I suppose at the end of the day, this is my little attempt at you lot keeping my spirits up :-)

The problem is when magazines land on the mat, telling me how EASA is going to make everything harder, at the same time as I realise how much of a limiting factor the weather is. Please, oh please, oh please let it be sunny for my lesson tomorrow (not looking hopeful so far!)

Thanks all. IPZ

[gpn01]

I fly gliders with Booker Gliding Club at Wycombe Air Park (just along the M40 if you're travelling fom London). Tend to find that in 'marginal' conditions you're likely to see gliders flying more often than you will powered aircraft. We don't have crosswind limits as we takeoff and land into wind and don't restrict ourselves to strips of tarmac/concrete that determine such directions. Low cloud? Not a problem as we can operate up to cloudbase near the airfield, and once we go West to avoid the airspace restrictions we can if we wish fly in cloud. Just like birds, we don't fly when it's raining although we do sometimes fly on the edge of rain and snow showers as there's often useful rising energy available.

Going back to the point of VFR-able days you need to consider also that the weather can change a lot (certainly in the UK) during a single day. So, it may be non-flyable at 08:00, flyable at 09:00, non-flyable at 11:30 and so on. The thing to remember is to go to the airfield and try to fly as often as you can. Too many times I hear of people who think it won't be a good day and so don't bother....and it turns out to be a good day after all.

[IO540]

I can and will fly low in pretty marginal weather - yes scud running - it is kind of fun and I have an IFR get out of jail card. However it is not the sort of thinking to undertake lightly because it can be a recipe for disaster.

Yes - I never advocate scud running. It kills loads of people. Some of the ways they die are just amazing to read about afterwards, and so pointless.

But that's not the same as flying in 5k or even 3k vis.

But again, you have IMC, which by the time I pass anything, wont exist. So of that 150+ hours you do, how much of that is in VMC, and at weekends?

Don't bank on it. Anyway, you could wrap up the whole lot during 2011 if you get your finger out.

how EASA is going to make everything harder

They make a lot of stuff harder but they will probably deliver a pan-European PPL at the end of it all. I don't know what kind of medical you will need for it but if you can get a CAA Class 2 you will be fine. Mind you, if it cannot be used on a GP medical then it will be no better than the present JAA PPL.

[Lister Noble]

I sailed a lot before I learned to fly,I found most of the weather knowledge helped,so did "rules of the road",( anti-collision regs) very similar aviation and marine.
Also the telecomms helped a little,I asked if my Marine telephony licence could be used for aviation,but no such luck;)

And as said,you could wrap it all up in 2011,start now by doing all the paperwork exams,maybe even RT?

[IanPZ]

I'd really like to get my license in 2011, but remember I am starting with NPPL(M) as that's well within my budget. I know I can convert after to NPPL(SSEA) and then get an IMC, but I've started with what works for me, within easy reach of my house, and my bank account!

But who knows, maybe I will get it all done this year. Believe me, I am watching that April 2012 deadline like a hawk!

And as for getting the paperwork done, yup, I will. And I do think that my experience with Nav and radio from sailing will put me in good stead. If nothing else, I'm not frightened of it. It seems to me that a lot of people who have problems with Nav and RT do so because they ahve convinced themselves its diffifcult, rather than just going with the flow....

If I can work out tidal currents, leeway, ground clearance and the likes, over the space of a 36 hour journey, then I think I should be able to cope with crosswinds. I mean, in sailing, there's a whole 120 degree span that I can even head towards (into wind) and have to tack to take account of it. Can't imagine much harder than working out best tacking angles for the best SOG (speed over ground)! :-)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

So, what do you think?
As a PPL holder, to avoid unexpected disappointment I tell my passengers that there's a 75% chance of a weather cancellation in the winter, and a 50% chance in the summer.

The thing is to book more lessons that you need, if the school will let you. If you can afford one lesson a month book one a fortnight. If you can afford one a fortnight book one a week. If you can afford one a week book one every Saturday and one ever Sunday.

Navigation is indeed easier than boats because there's no tide, but on the other hand it's harder than boats because you're going twenty times as fast and thus have only one twentieth of the thinking time.

[IanPZ]

Thanks for that Gertrude. I reckoned I could just about afford weekly lessons, though perhaps that's a bit tight, so I booked weekly, assuming that I would end up with a few cancelled, and try and also get some time back from work so I could do lunchtime lessons if I missed two consecutive weeks. That sort of follows your suggestion.

As for navigation, yes, I can see that the speed is a challange. I suppose its got to be a case of preparing your route, looking for your secondary ports (or I suppose, nearest airfield in emergency, in planes) and keeping on top of it. The peculiar thing I've seen with sailing is people doing their nav, assuming there is loads of time, and then getting flustered when crunch time comes. Is it the same with flying? The more preparation, and the more up to date you keep everything during a flight, the easier to deal with the unexpected, cos you know exactly where you are? Be interested to know your thoughts. IPZ

[IO540]

You need to think ahead when flying, and if you fly at 150kt you need to think ahead more than if flying at 100kt.

The key is to reduce the cockpit workload so you have more brainpower left over. Flying with a GPS for example is far less work than timing legs and looking for landmarks etc. Currency helps a lot so flying frequently is important - every 2 weeks or more often if possible.

And yes you need to have the paperwork organised long before you arrive at the destination. When I fly IFR I start sorting the approach plates in the likely order etc with 100nm left to run.

An autopilot is a brilliant cockpit workload reducer.

[EddieHeli]

It will also depend on if you have your own aircraft or not.
I started on microlights and purchased a RansS6 as soon as I passed my test. Having made the investment and paying for it even when it was sitting in the hangar we (Self and Wife) used to fly every weekend when possible. On the non-flying weekends we generally hung out at the flying club, either tinkering or just drinking tea and chatting.
Looking back through my logbook we flew just about every weekend for two years with the exception of March and May when we only managed 3 out of 4. Most of the time going away somewhere either for a day trip or whole weekend away. We always looked for somewhere we hadn't been before to add some adventure to the flying, and tried to attend fly-ins etc whenever possible.
Someteimes we just hung around waiting for a break in the weather and got away later. We only once got stuck, and that was because of a puncture causing us to run out of light, so had to stay overnight.
We once had to stop and wait for the weather to clear on the way home. We were just 10 minutes away from having to go to catch the last train home when through the murk a Cessna 172 arrived from teh direction we needed to go and he said the weather was blue skies and sunshine just 5 miles north and coming south, so we waited another half hour and flew home in perfect weather.
Just be flexible with your plans and always have alternative travel options and you will very rarely fail to get away or back. Sometimes having another cup of tea can make all the difference. If given a choice always fly towards the bad weather going out, as you will be flying away from it coming home, and coming home is where the pressure to fly most comes in. And going out you can turn around and cancel if it proves to be worse than forecast.
That only happened to us once when we were flying from Eshott to Fishburn and Newcastle radar said they were seeing Thunderstorm strikes over Fishburn, so we about turned and got back on the ground with the plane back in the Hangar at Eshott before the storm arrived.

[thing]

'Thank God I didn't think about gliding. 50 days a year, yikes!'

Not so as others have said. There might be 50 super duper flying days a year but it's rare that we don't fly. In fact this winter had been one of the worst for not getting the kit out that I can remember, mainly because the field has been under a zillion tons of snow.

[IO540]

I should mention that during my PPL training in 2000/2001 I booked every day in Oct/Nov/Dec (i.e. 90 lessons) and got just 3 lessons in. It was very bad warm front weather - OVC006 and drizzle.

This is not all that unusual. I recall one bloke who waited 6 months to fly his QXC. He was hit by a very hazy summer (which was perfect VFR conditions as far as I was concerned) and his instructor would not let him go in less than 10k vis (which is a fairly common rule). Of course his training just got partly wasted; he could fly dual but without the QXC you cannot progress beyond a certain point. This is extremely frustrating, especially if in the meantime you fly with a more experienced pilot and realise that haze is a non-issue in reality, using modern navigation, and much of the time one can just climb above it when enroute.

Since I bought my plane in 2002 I have tried to fly once a week, and I manage this about 50 weeks out of 52. I could probably do it every week OK but sometimes I have too much other stuff to do. But I fly mostly weekdays.

[stevelup]

IanPZ, this year has been particularly grotty.

I had a lesson booked every weekend from September 2009 onwards and only missed three due to weather throughout my entire training.

This winter, I've looked out of the window almost every weekend and seen nothing but a solid overcast. Today was lovely weather and I couldn't get the damn thing to start!

[IanPZ]

IO, Steve, everyone...

Thanks for all the comments, and the encouragement. It sounds like you've all experienced teh same frustration at times.

But...yes, I got to go flying today, and it was BRILLIANT. Last lesson of the day, flying until sunset, it was absolutely beautiful. This is what I was waiting for!

Hoping this is going to carry on like this. Thanks for the help.

[ChasG]

January = 5 lessons booked - 5 lessons cancelled. Might take up under water basket weaving instead

[IanPZ]

Chas, you sound like you're having a worse time than me. Latest one cancelled too? Doh!

[Kolossi]

I think I only had one (if any!) lesson cancelled between June and end of Nov when I did my first solo - we did IMC appreciation in the clouds the one day the wx wasn't suitable for circuits, and the cancellation was either excessive crosswind or waterlogged runway.

Then I got no flying between end of nov and 21st Jan.

Swings and roundabouts, but it doesn't answer the original OP question about % good days in a year - I havent' got enough hours in for that yet!

[IanPZ]

Kolossi, that's okay. Now I actually had a lesson, things like that just make me look forward to the summer. I just hope I pass before next winter!!

[SEP Flyer]

As a relatively new and low hour VFR PPL holder, and weekend renter (not an owner yet, but one day I hope...), are there any others in a similar boat to me who worry about their lack of flying over the winter months due to poor weather, with the corresponding fall off of currency, skills and therefore safety (and confidence)?

I am not happy about going up in marginal conditions until my skill base has increased (bit of catch 22 here)- I know my limits (and read AAIB reports!) and verge very much on the side of caution.

I was lucky enough to have a 30 minute go in the A320 sim at Gatwick (simply amazing) - does such a 'realistic' sim exist for simple GA aircraft - and if so, any in south east corner of UK?

Any other tips or thoughts for keeping the flying skills rust at bay during the winter months?

Thanks in advance!

[dont overfil]

IanPZ
I am constantly amazed at posts like yours and cannot believe this is just down to weather. I now work in aviation and watch the weather closely. I reckon there must be around 300 flyable days or part days a year. Perth Airport has had around eight blank days since April.

I learned to fly in Scotland which is not famous for its good weather but on checking my logbook I had only four weather cancellations. Course started in the last week of February and finished last week in September flying once a week on Sunday mornings and occasionally a weekday evening.

Most of the flying was done first flight of the morning which may have been a factor. The other was an instructor who was prepared to make the lesson fit the weather. I would be interested to know what your flight schools weather minima is and how they survive having to cancel most of their bookings.

D.O.

[mad_jock]

Depends on which bit of the UK you are in.

When I was instructing full time I had 8 days that we couldn't launch in Inverness but that could have been a good year or the seasonal wx has changed over the last 10 years.

Its not uncommon to get 20k plus viz up north.

[IO540]

I suspect the real issue is finding a coincidence between the weather, and one's days off.

Most PPLs can fly only on weekends, which narrows things drastically because aircraft availability then comes into it also, because everybody else is playing the same game.

I always try to fly once a week, just for currency if not going anywhere, and lose only 1 or 2 weeks a year. But then I am not a renter and can fly on most weekdays. I rarely fly weekends, due to no hangar access at weekends, unless going off on a long trip.

On the face of it, with an IR, I might not be bothered about the weather as much, but actually I am based at an airport whose instrument approaches offer no value over doing a DIY GPS letdown over the sea and coming in on a more or less normal visual circuit. And I won't do a "currency flight" if the cloudbase might be below 800ft.

The answer to the original Q will depend on what kind of a flight one is doing, the surrounding terrain, whether one navigates using GPS (lack of GPS makes even nice but hazy days unflyable), the type of aircraft, the distance away one is flying, etc.

Taking the worst case example, which might be a 700nm leg from the UK to somewhere east of the UK, or maybe from the s. coast up to Scotland, I'd say the cancellation rate for 100% legit VFR flights would be around 50-75%. But much depends on other factors. Plus you have to get back the next day or whatever, and I find that most of my cancellations are due to there not being a worthwhile IAP at my home airfield.

[Sillert,V.I.]

As a relatively new and low hour VFR PPL holder, and weekend renter (not an owner yet, but one day I hope...), are there any others in a similar boat to me who worry about their lack of flying over the winter months due to poor weather, with the corresponding fall off of currency, skills and therefore safety (and confidence)?

Any other tips or thoughts for keeping the flying skills rust at bay during the winter months?


Why not do an IMCr course over the winter months? You'll keep current & learn some new skills at the same time. And you'll often be able to fly at short notice on the days when all the PPL students have their lessons cancelled.

[Fuji Abound]

Obviously the single biggest factor will be flying close to terrain.

When I started flying I seem to recall if the base was forecast to be anything less than 2,000 feet AGL en route I would think again.

With training, time and experience you may be happy to depart with much lower bases and continue VFR. In fact at around 800 feet there are rarely occasions when you cant remain below the base.

Of course it is rightly drummed into us how dangerous scud running can be. I am not advocating low level flying but pointing out that you may find you are happy and safe accepting lower bases which extends those days on which you can fly.

Having an IMC or instrument rating is of course a huge safety net providing as it does a means of "bailing out".

I dont think most pilots do enough low level flying. Whether it is something to use routinely or not, there will almost certainly be occasions it might get you out of trouble and yet I find most pilots are very uncomfortable flying low level.

Just another angle on the debate.

[SEP Flyer]

Why not do an IMCr course over the winter months?

Would love to - but I am still trying to accumulate the requisite hours required before I can start the course - sadly my hours in a Zenair 701 don't count towards hours needed :{

[stevelup]

Some of the best flying weather throughout the whole year is during the winter months. Just get out there and fly - there's no need to hibernate over winter!

[Intercepted]

Quote:
Why not do an IMCr course over the winter months?
Would love to - but I am still trying to accumulate the requisite hours required before I can start the course

You don't need the required hours before you start the course, only before you can be issued the rating.

[SEP Flyer]

You don't need the required hours before you start the course, only before you can be issued the rating.

If that is the case, that changes everything :ok:

I want to do the IMC training as I think it will increase my general flying skills - even though most of my flying is VFR. Was originally told that I had to get the hours in before I could start IMC training....

[andytk58]

Hi all,

First post here (my opinons may also be available elsewhere on the net...:ok:)

I was in a similar situation to the OP, but with one massive difference. I trained predominantly weekdays.
I got my 3 axis NPPL (M) with only about 5 lessons cancelled due to weather (and one due to a massive hangar fire wiping out the training aircraft...)
This is despite being in Scotland.

I'm exceptionally fortunate that I have a job that allows weekday training. The trick was to keep a close eye on the weather ahead and book up a couple of lessons if it looked good. Even in Scotland this resulted in a surprisingly good success rate.

This may not help you now, but your idea of being able to take the odd day holiday (afternoon off etc) from work once you're qualified would give you a good flying rate.

Andy

[mrmum]

SEP Flyer
Intercepted is correct, it is the case (my red)
LASORS SECTION E INSTRUMENT RATING, INSTRUMENT METEOROLOGICAL CONDITIONS RATING AND NIGHT QUALIFICATION

E3.2 UK IMC RATING FLYING TRAINING/EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS
When applying for an IMC Rating you must produce logbook evidence of having met the following flying requirements:-
a. 25 hours total experience as pilot of aeroplanes following PPL issue and which must include (b), (c), (d) & (e) below.
b. 10 hours as Pilot in Command of aeroplanes to include (c) below.
c. 5 hours as Pilot in Command of aeroplanes on cross-country flights.
d. 15 hours as Pilot under Training in instrument flying with an instructor in a dual controlled aeroplane (during IMC course). Up to 5 hours of which may be
in a JAR-STD device qualified BITD, FNPT I, FNPT II or up to 2 hours of which may be in other FSTDs recognised by the Authority.
e. 10 hours total flight time by sole reference to instruments (during IMC course).
Also see here, section 6 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1125FF.pdf
The IMCr is great thing to do, get one before EASA take the chance away.

[dont overfil]

Hi IanPZ,
Re reading my previous post I see it comes across rather rude. Sorry that was not intended.
However, lots of people will have achieved their ppl in that time.
Are you only planning one lesson once a month?
If that is not the case do as I did and book every Sunday 09.00 slot for months ahead. That way availabilty will not be a problem.
Unless you are living in the Arctic circle you will have your ppl by summer 2012.
D.O.

[cats_five]

...
Thank God I didn't think about gliding. 50 days a year, yikes!
...


Theres a huge difference between a day on which is it possible to fly a glider and a day on which it's possible to fly cross-country in a glider. Many of the non-XC days are great training days. Unless it's raining, we have awful turbulence from the hills, the cloudbase is below the top of the hill or the airfield is unusable (too wet or too much snow) we fly gliders.

As said elsewhere, most of us have fewer problems with cross-winds (some sites do have a hard runway you must land on), and clubs with ridges potentially have soaring all through the winter - you need the right direction wind and cloudbase above the ridge. What the right direction wind is depends on the club, and some clubs get good wave soaring as well in the right conditions.