Saying thank you?

[nick ritter]

Saying thank you?

Can I ask how you end your radio calls with a frequency before switching to an alternate frequency?

Probably sounds a daft question, but it has been on my mind for a while (mine a sad life of finance and flying) and as such I would like to ask others how they end their radio calls with a controller, say Farnborough, who I am sure many on this site regard as a truly fantastic service, before changing to another frequency?

I was reading with interest a recent PPRUNE thread on being told to standby, I think by Solent, and got the overall impression that strictly speaking one shouldn’t add addition RT that isn’t necessary, even if it is just to say “thank you very much for your help” before switching frequency (which is what I do, although probably incorrectly?)

Many thanks
Nick

[jayeff]

I normally end mine with "Sorry about that."

[Fuji Abound]

Well yes the purist will not take kindly to a thank you, and yes it is probably not helpful if the frequency is really busy.

However, if the controller has gone out of their way to provide a good service then I think you should extend your thanks.

I am always grateful for a transit of some of the busier areas of airspace - through Gatwick, or Heathrow for example.

"Thank you for the transit, much appreciated" nevers goes amiss in my book.

[Morris542]

"Many thanks" - if frequency isn't that busy or I've requested something specific.

"Bye bye" - If very busy

Or both if frequency is quiet. Nine times out of ten I say thanks, just out of politeness for whatever service I may have been given.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Over here, it is quite customary to end the conversation with an informal politeness, which is often done in local language. I even heard this at Brussels tower on a rare occasion - though only when the frequency was VERY calm, at 23hrs local or so.

[IO540]

I say thank you, especially if they gave me a nice shortcut :)

[neilgeddes]

Something like "changing to Biggin 129.40, squawk 7000, thank you. G-XY".

[flyingman-of-kent]

If ATC is very busy, forget anything that is not by the book. They will not thank you for holding up some other transmission or message. If they are reasonably quiet then saying thanks as part of your acknowledgement is only one word amongst your message.

Generally if you are good at RT you can easily include a word of thanks but if you are one of the verbose "...at this time... " brigade then forget it.

[FerrypilotDK]

I had a young man come out of a MCC course a few years back. He had come away with the impression, that one should never even say thank-you within the cockpit...in other words, to me...or I to him.

wwweeeelllllllllll that led to a discussion where I explained that aviation in my book, doesn´t cancel out politeness and courtesy, so I suggested that he forget that part of his instruction!

As an aside, he was FP and we were on a non-typical approach, bidirectional VOR(basically a cloud break)....when we reached MAPt, I said missed approach, as we were still in the clouds...

He replied, "but I can see some water below me"....(0 vis forward) "Missed approach NOW!"

He wasn´t happy, but he did it.....we then flew the ILS and when we looked at the VOR approach, he realised that we were flying directly at a mountain and doing the missed too late, would turn us into another mountain on an island....

his face went white when he realised how close things had come and he quietly said "thank-you" Seems his lesson in courtesy was over. He was from a flat country and as he could see ground/water/what-ever beneath him, then there was no danger in descending....quickly made the mental transition to mountainous terrain....

He went on to the military(!) and I wonder how that went...



Approach- "N2345X, what are your intentions?"


N2345X- "Well, I hope to finish my PPL within the next month, then I begin my CPL and instructor´s course. When I have built up enough time, I will go for my IR then instruct for a year before returning to my own country and hopefully become a professional airline pilot."

Approach- "Turn RIGHT, take up heading 180, maintain 2500 feet ...

[Squeegee Longtail]

I (well my a/c) was paid a compliment by the lady in the tower on taxi out at Cannes yesterday. I pondered my response for a moment, flicking through the mental r/t pages for the correct thing to say. Nothing. Next I tried to think of something witty or amusing. Nothing. Couldn't think of anything better than "THANK YOU", so that's exactly what I said.

[blueandwhite]

If the frequency is not busy I will usually say "thank you - good day" usually on the end of my last message. so if I have to report squawk and frequency change it would be "7000, 123 decimal 45, thankyou - good day"

Or if I have been helped out - "Thanks for your help - good day"

But if it's busy then no thanks is nessasery. And by the book its no comment needed.

But I have been thanked by ATC, I don't need it, but I like to know they have noticed.

[Ryan5252]

A simple 'Slan!' is generally appreciated with Shannon low level. :ok:

[TrafficPilot]

I've noticed a lack of "thank you's" from aircraft on RT even late at night when it's quiet and they've been offered a direct short-cut in the cruise. The odd "thanks for your help" or "cheers" would be nice for ATC to hear surely..

[SNS3Guppy]

It all depends on frequency congestion and what's going on. If it's simply a hand-off, one doesn't need a soliloquy.


"Foxtrot Niner Ringworm Six X-Ray Lollipop, contact Zelda Center on 126.5."

"126.5, Six X-Ray Lollipop, g'day." works just fine.



"Zelda Center, Foxtrot Niner Ringworm Six X-Ray Lollipop, request."

"Six X-Ray Lollipop, Zelda Center, go ahead with request."

"Zelda, Six X-Ray Lollipop request climb niner thousand, and direct ASCOT."

"Six X-Ray Lollipop, cleared direct ASCOT, climb and maintain niner thousand, contact Burudi on 124.3."

"Six X-Ray Lollipop, climb niner thousand direct ASCOT, Burundi on 124.3, thanks for the help, g'day."

Simple courtesy.



If the frequency is busy stick to strict jargon and forget the "g'day."

[AdamFrisch]

In the UK I normally end with a "thanks for your service" at handover from a radar service. It doesn't take a second and I feel that it's appreciated.

[AfricanEagle]

If frequency isn't crowded message ends with "thanks" or "have a good day" or a simple "ciao".

ATC also often ends with "have a good day" if things aren't to busy.

[dublinpilot]

Here is an little funny story that I think is relevant to this thread.

It's stolen from the ATC humour thread (http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/59309-atc-humour-merged-23.html#post3323805)on the atc forum

True story which stills makes me smile: Couple of years ago I was working in Texas teaching commercial students most of which were Mexican! One particular student was very keen but struggled with the language and hence radio work at times became a bit of an issue. I had suggested to him that as a future professional pilot it might be good practice to add a polite 'good morning' or 'good afternoon' to his initial calls to ATC. Few days later having done a night flight to Austin and appropriately coffeed and refreshed we were getting ready to fly back to San Antonio and said student makes initial call remembering my 'words of wisdom'. "Austin Tower, N*****, Good Night". There followed an appopriate stunned silence then entering into the spirit of things, "N*****, Austin Tower... Sleep well"

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I've only once felt it appropriate to phone up the controller and say thank-you after I'd landed :O

[172_driver]

ICAO Doc 9432 (Manual of Radiotelephony) specifically states "The use of courtesies should be avoided"

I think it's very situation specific if you should include courtesies (bye bye, thank you, have a nice weekend etc.). If it's busy don't waste time expressing your gratitude. If it's just been standard R/T with no special effort, like coordinating requests for you, why should I include a thank you? I don't thank ATC for every clearance I get, the words would loose its value. Unfortunately some pilots are so keen to include a "thank you" for everything that they even forget to read back their callsign.

Don't get me wrong, I like someone lightening up the conversation a little that could otherwise be very bland. I usually thank ATC when they have put an effort in to provide best service. But there is time and place for everything.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

ICAO Doc 9432 (Manual of Radiotelephony) specifically states "The use of courtesies should be avoided"



A simple 'Spot Ya' in our part of the world is polite :-).

I think a bit of levity is fine, i remember calling 'complete and taxiing to the pumps' on my solo flight and having tower say 'Congratualtions XYZ' possibly one of the best single moments of my life.

And if anybody thinks the pro's don't do this needs to do a bit of flying 'after hours'. Doing a bit of night flying i listened intently to a description of a 'fit' female contoller playing netball, and a light hearted slanging match between two rival domestic operators.. which was bloody hilarious.

This may have identified me... or my location.....:ooh:

[SNS3Guppy]

ICAO Doc 9432 (Manual of Radiotelephony) specifically states "The use of courtesies should be avoided"

Where in the document are we directed to avoid courtesy?

http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Doc%209432%20-%20Manual%20of%20Radiotelephony/DOC%209432%20-%204%20ed.%202007.pdf

Page 3-1 of the Manual of Telephony states:

"The phraseologies contained in these documents are not intended to be exhaustive, and both documents refer in several instances, to the need for "additional phraseologies," or "appropriate subsidiary phraseologies," or "plain language."

Page 3-2 states:
"Phraseologies are applicable to most routine situations; however, they are not intended to cover every conceivable situation which may arise."

In other words, they're not hard and fast rules, but guidelines. Additional phraseology is not inappropriate.

[Morrisman1]

And if anybody thinks the pro's don't do this needs to do a bit of flying 'after hours'. Doing a bit of night flying i listened intently to a description of a 'fit' female contoller playing netball, and a light hearted slanging match between two rival domestic operators.. which was bloody hilarious.

This may have identified me... or my location.....

I dont think it's my home aerodrome, I cant imagine our female controller playing netball ;)

[FlyingKiwi_73]

I dont think it's my home aerodrome, I cant imagine our female controller playing netball http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif


Sadly she's moved on..... on a clear evening i rip my clothes off and howl in the direction of the tower....

Thats a joke... maybe. sorry to hijack the thread

[mary meagher]

Echo Romeo, leaving the frequency!

[peregrineh]

I think a simple 'thank you and good day' is not asking too much, especially if not too busy

[172_driver]

Where in the document are we directed to avoid courtesy?

http://dcaa.slv.dk:8000/icaodocs/Doc...ed.%202007.pdf



You were almost there, 3.1.4

Indeed just guidelines, but for good reasons.

I am not saying courtesies are inappropriate, just time and place for them has to be choosen. Where I fly the R/T load can sometimes be very high, most pilots are sensible and revert to standard R/T in these cases.

On another note if courtesies are overused, they loose its value. Like in any conversations. Therefore I see no purpose in making it habit to always say thank you. Just like the standard American jargon :oh:

[Fuji Abound]

N2345X- "Well, I hope to finish my PPL within the next month, then I begin my CPL and instructor´s course. When I have built up enough time, I will go for my IR then instruct for a year before returning to my own country and hopefully become a professional airline pilot."

Approach- "Turn RIGHT, take up heading 180, maintain 2500 feet ...


N2345X going around,

TOWER: What are your intentions? (please)

N2345X well I suppose I had better go around with the aircraft to. (thank you).

Hat, coat.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

I was crossing a control zone once and asked to be cleared direct to a VRP on the other side

Controller asked "and after XYZ what your intentions?"

I had to think for a bit as it wasn't the response i was prepared for ( i did know where i was going)

I said "Well i'd like to turn right and proceed ABC, if thats ok?"

WHY i added "if thats ok" i don't know, brain was stalled

Towers reponse "YHF Cleared ABC via XYZ 3500ft or below, and its just fine with me"

Love controllers quick brains.

[SNS3Guppy]

On another note if courtesies are overused, they loose its value. Like in any conversations. Therefore I see no purpose in making it habit to always say thank you. Just like the standard American jargon

"Standard American jargon? What is that supposed to mean?

Courtesy is always appropriate, and doesn't lose value, even when used with some frequency.

One may certainly omit pleasantries during times of high frequency congestion, but courtesy is always appreciated.

[malcolmf]

The use of courtesies should be avoided
Should, not must!
No problem on frequencies over Siberia, different with Heathrow Director. It's all about SA. Even JFK tower used to manage "nice night, great flight" for every departure (which does get a bit wearing for the 50th time:))

[Pace]

A bit late on this thread! Firstly I do think that pilots like to customise and personalise their messages.I used to hate pilots adding 1013 or 2992 coming down (Yuck) Often pilots will add BYE as they depart a frequency.
Really pilots get bored and often play around with the RT messages.
Fly over London at a bad time and it can be almost impossible to get a call in never mind reading verses of Shakespeare to the controller.
A lonely night over no where with hardly a soul on frequency and having a controller there is quite comforting.
The frequency can be so quiete that I have even had controllers ask what I was doing over the weekend just to give them someone to talk to.
So Yes we do like to add our own small stamp on RT but how much of a stamp depends on the situation.
i can even remember hearing one pilot asking a sexy sounding female controller for a date :D

Pace

[SNS3Guppy]

No problem on frequencies over Siberia, different with Heathrow Director.

Actually, controllers in Siberia are courteous, too.

[BackPacker]

Courtesy is always appropriate, and doesn't lose value, even when used with some frequency.

What? "Hi there, how'ya doin'?" hasn't lost its value? Damn. You should've told me before I went to the US. I honestly didn't know that the waitress/cashier/taxi driver was actually really interested in my state of well-being. So you're saying that I should've said something other than "Fine, how about yourselves"?

Actually, controllers in Siberia are courteous, too.

But probably not quite as busy as Heathrow Director.

[SNS3Guppy]

What? "Hi there, how'ya doin'?" hasn't lost its value? Damn. You should've told me before I went to the US. I honestly didn't know that the waitress/cashier/taxi driver was actually really interested in my state of well-being. So you're saying that I should've said something other than "Fine, how about yourselves"?

I think you've answered your own question, but unless those waitresses, cashiers, and taxi-drivers were engaging in communications on an aircraft radio, then it's really quite irrelevant, isn't it?

When was the last time you heard "Hi there, how ya doin'?" on an aircraft radio? When was the last time you responded on the aircraft radio "Fine, how about yourselves?"

Thought so.

But probably not quite as busy as Heathrow Director.

I certainly hope not. Siberia would lose it's charm. The London controllers are always quite courteous, however. They may or may not have time for pleasantries, but seldom is a "g'day" or "thanks" intrusive on radio time, or inappropriate.

[Fuji Abound]

I think the point Backpacker is making is "have a good day" etc has little charm when it is said with zero sincerity. While I dont believe for a moment the thanks heard on the radio are anything other than sincere dont say it if you dont mean it.

That said, and while we are on topic, is there a place for sarcasm? You have been refused the clearance for the third time for no obvious reason - so do you accept the refusal with a shrug or flavour your RT with a modicum of 'I am not impressed'. Just an aside form the other angle.

[SNS3Guppy]

While I dont believe for a moment the thanks heard on the radio are anything other than sincere dont say it if you dont mean it.

You're kidding, right? You're concerned with sincerity, when hearing "g'day?"

"Eight Nine Victor, climb and maintain seven thousand, turn right heading two seven zero, report the heading to London on 127.3."

"Seven thousand for eight niner victor, report heading two seven zero to London, g'day."

"Eight Nine Victor, London, before you go, do you really mean that?"

"Eight Niner Victor, affirmative, I do mean I'll contact London on 127.3."

"Negative, Eight Nine Victor. That's not what I mean."

"London, Eight Niner Victor, understand you want us climbing seven thousand, heading two seven zero. Will report to London on 127.3"

"Afraid that's still not what I meant, Eight Nine Victor."

"Ah, say requst, London?"

"Eight Nine Victor, you advised 'g'day.' I should hate to think that you'd advise me to have a good day insincerely."

"London, Eight Niner Victor, understand your request is sincerity verification. Is this correct?"

"Affirmative, Eight Nine Victor, confirm sincere g'day, then contact London 127.3"

"Ah, London, Eight Niner Victor, unable sincerity at this time. Suggest accept implied passing interest, if able."

"Eight Nine Victor, we're unable to accept that at this time. Hold present position until we work this out."

"London, Eight Niner Victor, we're VFR and don't plan to hold. Level now seven thousand, heading two seven zero, switching now London on 127.3."

"Eight Nine Victor, remain this frequency, cleared direct Coventry where you may kiss my branded backside."

"Unable backside this time, London, happy trails, so long, and have a moderately pleasant day if able, Eight Niner Victor."

[Fuji Abound]

Nah, over here we would think you are from down under mate if you wished us a G'day. Yowl be wanting a cold one next. Anyway G'day is not thanks. We tend to say thanks over here either if we mean it or if we are being sarcastic (thanks for nothing). Then of course we Brits are more sincere than you Yanks ;) which is why you must listen out for the Speedbird callsign to hear RT done proper like.

Over your way they still wish you a good day when they really want to give you a Glasgow kiss. x x.

[nick ritter]

Thank you all for your posts

[SNS3Guppy]

Nah, over here we would think you are from down under mate if you wished us a G'day.

I used to be, I guess. At least I once sounded like it.

Anyway G'day is not thanks.

Really? What earth shattering news is this? Remarkable. Truly remarkable.

Of course, G'day is "good day" in a truncated format, and thus none the less, a courtesy. Imagine that.

Then of course we Brits are more sincere than you Yanks which is why you must listen out for the Speedbird callsign to hear RT done proper like.

Ah, well: a stiff upper lip doth not sincerity make.

Still...

"Eight Nine Victor, climb and maintain seven thousand, turn right heading two seven zero, report the heading to London on 127.3."

"Seven thousand for eight niner victor, thanks, and report heading two seven zero to London, g'day."

"Eight Nine Victor, London, before you go, do you really mean that?"

"Eight Niner Victor, affirmative, I do mean I'll contact London on 127.3."

"Negative, Eight Nine Victor. That's not what I mean."

"London, Eight Niner Victor, understand you want us climbing seven thousand, heading two seven zero. Will report to London on 127.3"

"Afraid that's still not what I meant, Eight Nine Victor."

"Ah, say requst, London?"

"Eight Nine Victor, you advised 'thanks.' I should hate to think that you'd thank me insincerely."

"London, Eight Niner Victor ma'am, understand your request is gratitude verification. Is this correct?"

"Affirmative, Eight Nine Victor, confirm sincere thankfulness, then contact London 127.3"

"Ah, London, Eight Niner Victor, confirming our deepest indebtedness to you for the altitude change, and advising that we wish you the greatest of new years and an excellent day. Switching London, 127.3"

"Eight nine Victor, London, say degree of indebtedness, over."

"Ma'am, Eight Niner Victor advising that twere' it possible we should like nothing more than to spend our remaining fleeting moments basking in your opulent radiance, and request that you have our child. How copy?"

"Eight Nine Victor, copy your request to father my child, stand by, please."

"London, Eight Niner Victor standing by in the deepest of humble gratitude, advising gratitude until fuel reserves four five minutes."

"Eight Nine Victor, London copies four five minutes gratitude remaining, hold present position while verify able bear your children. Expect further clearance later this month, over."

"Understand later this month, and be aware, London, Eight Niner Victor unable diamond ring at this time, suggest Opal or cut glass."

"Eight Nine Victor, London Sweetie Twiddle Dee, copy and advise you had us at cut glass. Standby to copy phone number."

"That's a phone number for Eight Niner Victor, London, dearest? Say reason for number, and go ahead."

"Eight Nine Victor, Honey Bunches of Oats, London. Number for barrister for prenuptual agreement, advise when ready to copy."

"London, Eight Niner Victor confirms general sincerity, but updates remaining gratitude at five minutes, requesting immediate departure present position."

"Understand unable remain, Eight Nine Victor. Say intended direction of travel?"

"London, Eight Niner Victor, say your position relative to us?"

"Eight Nine Victor, London dearest here, we are due north of your current location, over."

"Copy that, London. Request departure south, as far as we can go. G'day."

[Fuji Abound]

Guppy - you been drinking on duty again and been taken in by all our lovely sounding London controllers - I can tell you they look as good as they sound! Seriously, only joking, please dont take me too seriously all the time.

[SNS3Guppy]

We're fairly sure we can accurately divine their hair color, weight, and measurements by the sound of their voice. We've never landed to check, but we're pretty certain that the process is accurate. This means, of course, that most of the male controllers to whom we speak look a lot like Andy Capp, and the women somewhat of a cross between Posh Spice and Holly Willoughby.

[Fuji Abound]

Posh - a bit thin I am afraid, they spend too much time sitting, so I think you will find you need to imagine something shall we say a little fuller these days.

Isnt it fascinating when you have heard the particular voice so often and you eventually get to put a face to it. Dreams shattered or come true.

Far better to just divine.

[SNS3Guppy]

Divinity is our specialty.

[Halfbaked_Boy]

I always drop in the word 'Thanks' at the end. Takes about 1/3 of a second, time which would easily otherwise be used up by pilots who speak slower over the course of an entire radio call anyway...

:)

[Pace]

Guppy

On one of my earlier posts I mentioned hearing a pilot asking a very sexy sounding controller out on a date :\
I often wondered whether had he got the date what she would have looked like? Maybe 240 ibs and built like a tank, with legs that could extend the undercarriage with a sqeeze :E

Pace

[Fuji Abound]

From your description I would prefer to think in terms of her being able to retrack your undercarriage with a single squeeze but whatever floats your boat I guess, some more desperate than others! :=

[Pace]

Fuji

I meant purely by the dramatic increase in hydraulic pressure such a squeeze would create not by natural means :E

I like mine slim and fairly petite ;) But some might get both natural as well God help them

Pace

[AdamFrisch]

Or you could end like the Speedbird (BA) guys do: "Bye, bye".

[foxmoth]

On one of my earlier posts I mentioned hearing a pilot asking a very sexy sounding controller out on a date
I often wondered whether had he got the date what she would have looked like? Maybe 240 ibs and built like a tank, with legs that could extend the undercarriage with a sqeeze

Definitely dangerous going on voice for looks - many years ago at an RN station in SW UK there was a girl used to come on the tannoy in the mess - sounded as sexy as could be and we all drooled over her voice - but she WAS 240 lbs or more with a face that could scare a warewolf:}

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Twenty five years ago I climbed the steps to a tower to find out if the lady controller was really as sexy as her voice and found a pocket venus. (small but perfectly formed) This morning I heard that self same voice say "have a good trip darling" as I left the house for work. Sometimes the old adage of "sexy tone-add 5 stone" is so wrong.

SND

[IO540]

Usually it isn't though ;)

[FlyingGoat]

Sir N - that wasn't at EGKK, was it?

[Fuji Abound]

So I wonder what it is like being married to a controller - all those years of controlling those bad boy pilots?

[Sir Niall Dementia]

IO540; you are sooo right. I'm sure some of them could make a great living on "those telephone lines" as they have the faces and bodies for the telephone.

Definately not EGKK, but they do have a lovely sounding scot lassie on director sometimes

As for the rest I find following the instructions simplest; Her "Route direct the kitchen and hold at the washing up."

Me "any idea at the length of hold?"

Her "Until you've finished the washing up."

Master in my own home? no chance!

SND

[mixsfour]

Examples of (in my opinion) harmless and excessive courtesy.

I was returning home about 8 nm out when the nearby LARS asked me if I could descend 'below 1400ft' early to assist another aircraft joining their ILS. I told them I was able to comply, did so, then shortly after when I changed to my home tower they said "Golf - Blah Blah, frequency change approved, skwark 7000, thanks for that".

Another day (2nd Jan?) I heard
"Blah Radar, Golf Blah Blah Blah Blah can I first of all take this opportunity to wish everyone at Blah a very happy new year and thanks for all your help during the last year. It's really good to know you guys are down there looking out for us. We're a [type] [somewhere] to the fly-in at [somewhere else], [some] on board [position] [altitude] [heading] [routing] did you know there's a fly-in at [somewhere else] today? I expect you're going to be quite busy. Errr, we're requesting a basic service.

[ShyTorque]

Pilot taxying in, on tower frequency:

"Tower, This is *****, taxying in. This was the last flight of my career; I'm retiring now. I'd just like to say thanks for your help and I'd like you all to know that you are the second best ATC unit I've ever had the pleasure of working with".

ATC: "*****, Thanks very much for saying so, congratulations on safely reaching your retirement and good luck. Just out of interest, who was better than us?"

Pilot: "Everybody else... G'day!"

;)